Do USB Filters Make DACs Sound Better?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2025
- This is a technical evaluation and listening tests of USB filters to see if they can make an audible difference in the output of a DAC.
Text reviews:
AudioQuest JitterBug USB Filter Review:
www.audioscien...
ifi micro iUSB3.0 USB Filter Review:
www.audioscien...
I'm not sure if you're new to doing videos but you're very natural at it.
I've noticed that too, Amir knows his stuff and he's very confident when explaining it.
Thank you both. :)
@@Gabriel-of-TH-cam He should know his stuff, as a renowned computer engineer he pretty much created digital music streaming as we use it today. I can't believe he's retired and still takes time to run ASR for everybody and make these awesome videos too.
@@herrtrigger7220 Little correction: He is an electrical engineer, not a "computer engineer"
Amir, you have to feel stupid when you do these tests, don't you? You know the results, you know what is going to happen, you know you are wasting your time, and yet you still do it. AudioQuest business model is based that people like you do not exist. Thank you man, you are the best :D
As always, thanks for the important work you’re doing. You’re the one man Consumer Reports of audio.
Thank you Alan. :)
Kudos to your dog for the breakdown work.
Note: Detailed K-9 assisted meticulous tear down and hardware analysis begins at 13:21 . Dare I suggest de-bunking "shielded" audiophile grade power cords that cost a fortune, next?
Always fun to see people using expensive power cables while running unbalanced RCA between the devices
Re: the power cords, I don't think the PVC jackets are good for the doggo.
I'm a re-tired electrician and electronics hobbyist for years and have been arguing and trying to explain how a 6ft power cord can in NO WAY affect the sound. They look really cool but most are so stiff they will probably end up damaging the power jack. Then I always get, "why do I hear a difference?". The same way they hear a difference when you do a blind test to compare two cords but really don't switch them.
Big thanks for your work !I'm grateful you'r here.
Noice!! Keep em coming!!
You going all in with TH-cam! Thanks for the education you are giving me.
Wait now let me get this straight you're saying that the emperor has no clothes on. I feel so foolish!
What I like most on your videos? The total absence of pathos.
I love these videos. Can't wait for a cable showdown!! :D
I knew that these units were BS that's how I found this channel. You got new subscriber. Thanks!
at 5:28 you can clearly see in the graph that the jitterbug influences the noisefloor at around 18-20khz... why this is picture is trancuated to 20khz? to hide the effect that is actually there with arguing its inaudible because its above 18khz??? maybe the noise itself isnt audible but it might be influencing other stuff
So good to see measurements to what I hear and what I rationally believe
It made a huge improvement for me, i had a ground loop, I put in a cheap olimex usb isolator and the buzz was gone. I had an older dac then, newer dacs frequently have the isolation built-in so it wouldn't have been a problem.
Alix MPD server -- usb -- Stello DA-100 DAC (ground loop noise)
Alix MPD server -- usb -- olimex isolator -- usb -- Stello DA-100 DAC (noise gone)
Sure, if you have a poorly-designed DAC that is noisy due to an improperly shielded ground then having a device to break a ground loop is a reasonable bandaid.
Problem is that Audioquest is marketing it for everyone, with claims that it magically makes your music sound superior. If it was only marketed to break ground loops they wouldn’t be pocketing the fortunes they’re making from it based on snake oil claims.
@@srkbear1 this is a common problem with focusrite scarlett interfaces and and my friend's presonus AudioBoxUSB, which are some of the most popular hobbiest/home-studio devices.
But where you using balanced or unbalanced output on these audio interfaces ? 😂 if you use the unbalanced output youre gonna get noise.
Thanks for doing YT as well as your site! Your reviews are detailed, and you never “BS” anyone. Plus, you have a great sense of humour on your site! :)
Very good review. Hope for more info. Thanks
You are "killing it" with these video. I think you are going to put quite a few audiofool companies out of business, especially the producers of "nonsense" devices like these USB filters.
Nah - their devoted followers are very good at motivated reasoning! I discussed this very device at a danish hifi message board. It was ... interesting!
What's the old saying- a fool and his money...
@@Abrikosmanden RealHifiHelp?
I have 2 jitterbugs and have used them in several different configurations involving different PCs, iOS device and a proper streaming bridge, and in all cases it changed the sound markedly. Mostly improved it significantly, sometimes changed the balance to the disadvantage.
I too have some ifi usb purifiers, they also VERY audibly lift the quality in various configurations (never changed the balance to a notable extent).
So, neither being able to measure nor to hear what is very easy to hear.. what value is provided here?
@@gioponti6359 little value if you've convinced yourself that there will be differences.
More reviews of ifi gear please. I find them very interesting as a brand.
I think we re going to be very good friends. (!) You are just what hi fi honest doktor ordered! Well due dude !
I have one from my laptop to my Dac (Jitterbugg). I was getting a high frequency sparkling/crackling type interference noise coming through my speakers every now and again at volume. It was an electrical type interference it was picking up by the sound of it. I bought the Jitterbug and it completely solved my problem. Whether it actually sounds better is debatable, infact I never even bothered trying to do any comparisons but I can confirm it eliminated the noise I was picking up.
I am not an advocate for using a loaded PC power supply to feed anything analog, but as I understand it the jitterbug is a filter for the USB power supply, it does nothing to the digital stream. If you have slight noises coming from the DAC (I had major noise) their little added power filtering the power may just be enough to push it beyond your hearing threshold. Higher end DACs pay much more attention to their power supply design than the DAC itself since the end result is an analogue signal and depending upon the analogue design a super DAC can sound crap. A DAC has one purpose other than converting a digital input to an analogue equivalent nothing else, but the analog circuitry in the audio path beyond the output of the actual DAC chip will be affected by all kinds of noises being introduced on the power rails.
@@nicoras8803 Ive just stated it removed the offending noise
@@BoredSilly666 I’d love to know what DAC you’re using, because there is nothing inside the jitterbug that “filters” anything in frequencies within the range of human hearing. The only explanation for what you’re describing would be electrical interference that resulted from a poorly-designed input receiver in your DAC, that has improper shielding between the power and data circuits. Does your DAC run on USB power? Does it use the same USB port for power that it does for data transmission? If so and you experienced static, you bought a bum DAC and put a bandaid on it. This is hardly an enthusiastic reason to justify the Jitterbug for the vast majority of folks who don’t have your problem, sorry.
@@srkbear1 It was a cheap Ifi Zen Dac that has now been sold, Ive now moved on to a Chord Qutest and Network bridge but Thanks for your Concern. Next time I need someone to teach me how to suck eggs I will give you a shout.
@@BoredSilly666 That was really unnecessary. I wasn’t intending condescension in my post. If it came across that way, then I offer my apologies. I was simply saying that the focus of this video is to disprove the claims that Audioquest is making about this device transforming the quality of their music, not to address whether it can solve ground loops or static in applications that are not functioning to expectations. Peace.
These ifi filters are useful for some issues. The iFi iSilencer+ solved an issue for a friend. It was the oddest problem and still baffles me. We narrowed the noise down to the way Adobe Premier sent data to the USB controller & dac. All the usual noise suspects were not the issue: ground loop, power, cables, etc. It was ONLY with powered monitors & premier that the noise showed up. With no clue about the source of the noise or solution, he tried the iSilencer and it solved the issue. Go Figure!
Wonder if that would change with a different psu. Or maybe something was grounding to the case.
You are like the lock picking lawyer or captain disillusion of audio equipment, I love it..
Underrated comment
I'd like to see how the Topping P50 Linear PSU stacks up with the D50S/A50S since they claim it makes a difference and they're normally pretty on point with their transparency in specs. That and the fact I own the set anyways, mostly for the build quality/tidyness.
I don't have a P50 to test. I have tested the D50 though with different supplies and while you can measure a bit of difference, for all practical purposes they don't do anything for it.
Compared to my good Aqvox linear power supply unit (not manufactured anymore), the Topping P50 has a more open and deep soundstage. This is done by increasing the treble level. However, the bass and slam are lacking. Instruments sound thin and not natural.
Amir, very well done. Thanks. It is quite an eye opener.
Thanks Issac. There is a lot more where this came from! :)
I think it’s wonderful that you include Fluffy in your scientific process! I vote for more K9 assisted tear-downs
The results are not detectable on graphs but they are on my ears. The sound through the USB AudioQuest Jitterbug and Dragonfly Red had more separation, clarity and realism then just with the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red.
Tell it to someone who cares.
Yeah... because your ears are magically more sensitive than equipment that can measure to -150db and lower.
Yeah right... placebo effect for audiophool in full effect my dude.
@@johnbravo7542then why are you wasting your time watching this video lol
@@hypnoz7871this equipment cannot measure increased soundstage and clarity, therefore it’s inferior to my hearing and brains which can.
Audioquest conned me twice on the jitterbug and the diamond usb cable!
AudioQuest is nothing but a con company. none of the product work as what they claimed. i got tonnes of audioquest product, and nothing works better...
@@bryansu I bought 4m Rocket 22 cable one year ago. I feel really sorry I lost those $100.
The dog did a good job 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He is a smart dog. He is handling all video production for me!
@@AudioScienceReview atta boy!!! 😁😁😁😁 Waiting on the next video drop. 👍👍👍👍😬😬😬😬😬
So what's the cause of the noise? The data lines? I'm trying to make an electronic stethoscope with an electret-mic board with its own amp, running to an STM32 board that's behaving as a USB audio input device to the PC. I can hear the computer's processing even as I move my mouse across the screen. I slightly reduced the noise by putting a 1k resistor to the usb vcc, then a 10uf cap to ground, then another 1k to the mic-board's vcc, but it's still pretty bad. I was looking for more information before putting some different-sized caps in to try to filter a bit more -- since I don't know what I'm doing... :) --- and I found your video. Thank you. :)
Did you find a solution? I have a synthesizer and it uses separate USB data and power inputs because of this issue. And even then, you have to use an external USB battery power pack because most usb power supplies (like phone chargers) are noisy
I love these videos Amir. I'm a fan of your site but the videos are even better.
Thanks Mark. Motivates me to produce more videos.
@@AudioScienceReview I'd love to see a round up of different sub $30 cables including dollar store RCA cables. I'd be curious what really matters.
So what can we actually do to eliminate jitter from a USB interface? Is there any kind of asynchronous usb filter or something?
Speaking of debunking, what about comparing battery versus AC powered Hifi devices ?
These Filters fix noise problems but they do not "Enhance" an otherwise healthy (no noise issue) System.
i think that's a fair point
Solid work
Much appreciated
Your videos are much more informative than your text posts, since you explain things so well. Please keep making em!
Thanks. It is a lot harder to compose text for me than to just talk. I procrastinated in setting up a video system but now that it is there, I can and will do more.
Perhaps it would've been good if you included a cheap $30 usb galvanic isolator. I believe there are DACs that have and don't have galvanic isolation of the USB input.
What about the ifi iSilencer Max to cancel out an annoying ticking sound?
Amir, thank you for sharing content like this.
Appreciate the kind remark.
Let's not forget, audioquest is the brand that also sells power and speaker cables with batteries in them..
Have you tested them under high GPU load? I have a D10S that outputs noticeable squealing when playing certain games that demand more from my GTX 1070, and what I did to solve that problem currently was to split the 5V and ground wires from the cable into a phone charger.
That’s not what they’re marketed for-they’re promoted as magical devices that improve the audio for all implementations. Certainly there are isolated circumstances where DACs are poorly designed without proper filtering (Topping is not one of them), or when folks have weak links in their system that lead to ground loops or other electrical problems, where something like this expensive gizmo can put a bandaid on that problem. That’s beyond the scope of this review-he’s demonstrating that the Jitterbug is not capable of the claims Audioquest is promoting it for.
I have this problem with the motherboard’s built-in DAC/amp. I’ve seen some motherboards with usb slots meant for external DACs (gigabyte aorus z390)
have you ever tested the ifi defender+? I just got it and it does completely eliminate my ground loop issue/ gpu noise every time I move the mouse. The weird thing though is that it increases the high freqs as well as decrease sub bass and makes everything seem a little shaper. Not in a good way either, in a digital strange way. Would love to know whats causing that
i had this problem, and the cause was a bad mobo cap, new board cpu and ram sorted it
and now i use a usb dac no noise and no filter
another amazing / bravo video, thank you!!!
Saved me 60usd thank you!
Thank you for creating such honest videos exposing these companies who scam people out of thousands of dollars on unnecessary equipment which does nothing. We need more of this objective approach in the audiophile community
I don't know if this will even get read. But I have an issue. I have two Adam Audio T8V connected via XLR - Cinch to a Creative Soundblaster X5 DAC which in turn is connected to my gaming PC via USB-C to USB-A 3.1. In idle I have noticable, but still quiet noise. But once I start a game or any other GPU hitting tasks the noise gets unbearable. From a quite irritating "whine" in variable frequencies to something that sounds like a constant "knock". After some research I did, I think I may have a ground loop. I am thinking of getting the Behringer HD400 to try and solve this extremely irritating problem. I was even thinking of trying these old Ferrite Rings and put them on my USB and Audio Cable. I really, really like the Adam Audio T8Vs and I am hoping that HD400 will solve it?
I have a NUC 8 feeding a usb dac/headphone amp that would make noise whenever scrolling the mouse - wired or wireless. tried bunch of hacks to no avail. Then I plug my headphone amp to a different AC wall outlet and use a different usb and rca cables. The noise disappeared! So, a cable and AC or Amp issues? I have no clue...
So, how do I reduce unwanted noise from my pc to my DAC/(Audio Interface Headphones/Speakers) when not playing anything?
@@RaveyDavey I have a toslink connection, but it's actually an output, I'll check your eBay suggestion out but I'm from Italy so that might be a tough call.
Is this type of noise found on DACs with galvanically isolated inputs
What I need to fix is computer noise that transfers through a USB DAC or anything connected to the PC, into my amp. Optical would probably solve this it seems as the noise only happens when stuff is connected to the PC
Awesome - keep the videos coming.
I'm sure a lot of people could be disillusioned by the function of this tool but in my experience with the exact issue devices like these solve, the extremely high MHz feedback from USB lines you get from modern graphics processors even at idle (when making an electrical connection, in my case scrolling the wheel making changes on screen) is what produces the noise, not sitting idle and playing music. The noise often is very subtle to begin with (with USB which is why this experiment interests me) to extremely loud from analog output feedback with poorly shielded cable.
Can we say that AudioQuest is 100% scam company at this point? Their stuff looks fancy, but they do nonsense anti science claims in marketing and that's the reason why people buy them.
It's already been agreed years ago that AudioQuest is the quest for scamming stupid idiots. I don't know why we have to wait till now to say that.
Have either one of you tried an Audioquest interconnect made from a single highly polished (pss+) 99.99999% pure silver conductor in a teflon foam dialectric with red copper connectors that are plated the same purity siiver, in a highly resolving system and compared it to a cheap interconnect say like the average box store copper interconnect???
@@jsmctch if you believe just enjoy it. However, when you see someone who clearly understands electronics and electrical theory and can prove what is going on it will of course upset you. Best not to watch any of these debunking videos. Nothing wrong with nice quality cables of any kind.
@@a0r0a7 I'll take that as a no
@@jsmctch Listened to plenty of cable demonstrations and tried in my own home. No difference unless you are using Bell wire which no lover of hifi would ever do. Proper guage OFC or Silver speaker cable. As for interconnects I purchased, knowing why would it make any difference a digital spdif cable from a well known British cable manufacturer. The info on the packaging assured me I was definitely in for a different audio experience, what happened, nothing, the same quality sound I have always experienced. Like I said if you believe and did the blind test and picked out your Audio quest cable then good for you. I know what I believe so, No for me. Oh and before you say my system can't be good enough to expose the cable please say you are in the UK. I will travel to you and we can have a enjoyable afternoon with you showing me how those cables make a difference. Up for it?
Amazing. Thank-you Amir.
Thanks! Almost going to buy iFi Audio iSilencer+ for my dac/amp.
Cool man, I got a USB filter thing that I've heard change the noise floor on my soundbar. It's an ifi isilencer. I have three of them, the first one I got has white printed serial number on the gold plated male end. The other two I bought from another source has no printed numbers on the gold plated male end. They're supposed to use active noise cancelation technology, I thought I could plug one into the service port of my soundbar to reduce noise on the bus. I put my ear to the soundbar to where I could hear it hissing and plugged it in, it did make an audible difference in the hiss. I bet if you tested it, it would measure within the audible range. I could send you one of each I have. Sending both, because there is a chance one is counterfeit, but both made an impact.
Big thank you Amir !
Are you able to record the same kind of video about the LUXURY & PRECISION w1/W2 ?
Thanks. I cannot. Another member in China had that and post the measurements. I don't have one to test.
I'm curious about a specific use case, using my Scarlett 2i2 (which is bus powered) to amplify condenser mics, I get a distinct high pitch whining sound on the input that I cannot get rid of no matter what cables I use, whether my laptop is plugged in or on battery, etc. Will a product like these UBS filters do anything to eliminate the persistent whine related to USB power interfering with the ADC?
What if you're running a fully custom watercooled 3090 + 5950 RGB gaming PC? Surely something like the jitterbug helps purify the noise levels
Is there any benefit to using a linear power supply like a Topping P50?
More... more... more :-)
Thank you for these awesome videos!
My question is, when I plug my MPC into the computer there is a huge hum and bizzing what can I do if these filters do not work?
I found this video very illuminating. The Jitterbug makes an unmistakable difference in sound, a difference none of the measurements showed which makes all of them useless because the right thing has not been measured. The placebo effect or expectation bias non-argument is always comical. It is interesting to see the façade of science and objectivity being thrown up in what appears to be an attempt to mask personal biases against products like these.
I can only give a flashlight of audio truth. You need to put the batteries in it to see in the dark. To the extent you don't, then my advice is: I hope you don't trip and fall! :) FYI I listen to such devices and there is absolutely no difference in sound. The science predicted that. The engineering predicted that. And my ears and brain confirmed it. That you hear otherwise, means you got all three of these wrong, not just one.
@@AudioScienceReview But then there is the possibility that there may actually be a given system setup that does make an audible difference with some added filtering. I have a low end Dell laptop that produces a very noticeable noise on it's earphone output when the battery is being charged from the noisy SMPS brick power supply that may also manifest the problem with a USB DAC but I haven't yet tried a DAC because I don't own one yet. But my simple fix at the moment is to just unplug the supply if I am listening to music. Problem solved for $0.
I tested a jitterbug and heard no difference at all.
@@Taffy84 That is interesting. I can tell the difference it makes with 2 of my systems and with 2 sets of headphones and guess correctly 100% of the time. The jitterbug gives a distinct sound to the music, in my application it is used with older DACs.
Am puzzled that neither ifi nor jitterbug led to an audible difference in your system and with your ears. I am using both devices, now settled on ifi. Differences are very clear and reproducible, at least in my system and in various different configurations. General observation: “no difference” - what exactly does that mean? It means that differences, as long as they exist, went unnoticed. Now, i made the experience, nearly everything in hifi makes a difference, sometimes an extremely small, sometimes differences are impossible to ignore.
PS: my dac is powered by a separate lin psu. I can hardly imagine it to be powered by a noisy pc usb output. For a listening test or measurement. But hey, maybe the Dac in use filters out the ground noise introduced now via power and usb input ;) - Well i remember i have used an external usb soundcard powered in this way. Was a notable upgrade to power it via lin power supply then. I’d call that “pc music” but not “high fidelity”. Never ever.
People who use these products simply do not understand how data transfer(music from CPU to DAC) via USB occurs. It will not matter how "busy" or "noisy" your computer is, it will not degrade the USB signal. It either goes through, or fails totally.
@@lok777 that is how you think it works. Thanks for sharing. Afaik such filters aim at eliminating noise, e.g. common mode noise, which, dependent on sophistication of the usb interface on the dac, may not or may very well be audible. Remember, there is an analog thing attached to the dac, and even the digital side of dacs are susceptible to some level of noise.
@@gioponti6359 No, that is how it works. USB signal is sent via "packets" of information similar to how the internet is sent to your computer. These small packets are checked on both ends for errors-if errors are detected the signal does not go through. If the signal goes through it goes through correctly. Technically it makes no sense for there to be any difference, let alone audible differences from a USB cable. The "analog part" of a DAC may sound different but that is independent of the USB cables.
@@lok777 you manage to discuss this topic entirely on a mathematical basis, i point at noise that is introduced into the dac, together with “digital bits”, the latter of which don’t arrive w/o the perils of the prior. Anyway. You say there cannot be a difference because the mathematical concept does not permit noise to exist, and i and many others can actually hear differences. Its like saying Mount Everest doesn’t exist, and if it did, it would max. be 884 metres, because a higher mountain cannot exist. While it does. And many more.
Please more of these!
Have you done any comparison of USB cables? I know Wolfx700 did one and some Lindy cable did better than the others but probably not by any audible margin.
I have indeed. I will see if I can collect them and do a video on them.
You can get eye candy by using food,looking usb cables and that can make you feel good. But unles those usb cables Are not broken, there is no difference in the sound. I have nice looking usb cables in topping d90 because They can be seen so nice looking cable is nice to have but I can not hear the sound difference... just like I did Expect :)
have you ever found a better usb-to-spdif converter compared to the Berkeley Alpha USB ?
Request comparison between
computer USB Digital out
vs
streamer digital out
vs
tv box digital out (eg- mibox).
Please compare if the end analog signal from the DAC has any difference between these 3 sources as well.
I *think* I have done this comparison. Let me see if I can find it.
@@AudioScienceReview thank you Amir. When you do USB out measurement please consider measuring it in ASIO bit perfect output configuration as well. 🙏
The Audioquest Dragonfly usb dongles don't measure well either. They're just HYPED so people think they sound better than they really do. Marketing and hype can drive audio products pretty far cause human hearing is easily manipulated. But if your happy with it, its your money.
Some computers like Lenovo thinkpads I have noticed have clean USB power. My dell latitude is very dirty. I can literally hear a lot hiss in my audio interface when recording. When I move to the thinkpad, absolutely pristine. I think you should try different computers with unfiltered DACs or USB audio interfaces. The one that I used before I got a better one was the Behringer UM2. It sounded horrible with my Dell when using my mic. I kinda think this device would solve that problem.
You literally just saw that it wouldn't.
Go waste your money though.
Can you test ground loop removers please?
It is hard to create a test fixture for that but I will see what I can do.
How gullible we all are! Thank you for that merciless expose.
I was looking for a proper USB isolator, anyone can point me in the right direction? Main usage would be oscilloscope. Many thanks!
...which leads me to the question- can you hear audible differences in dacs? I think yes, obviously, But you have this "poor" measuring dac, the Modi 2, and now better versions, my question is which do you prefer to listen to? Could it be the poorer performing dac sounds more pleasing? I think it is a complicated question, possibly on poor recordings the noisier dac might sound better, hiding the crap, or maybe the noise gets interpreted as "air" in the soundstage- and better performing dacs end up sounding less interesting. Which leads me to the question how do measurements, especially now that dacs for example are all measuring very high on your scale, how can we use this information to make choices? Does it end up being listening anyway? A not so veiled subjectivist/objectivist question. thanks for the videos.
Once again shedding light which always exposes the bs. Thanks
2:30 the spectrum of a pulse will be flat. Thats why white noise has a flat spectrum, because it is basically a bunch of random pulses. I agree it will sound awfull, but in theory it does have a flat spectrum, of course given that only one sample is missing. If more samples are missing in a row, it wil not be completely flat, but I am not sure what the nature of packet errors is.
That only happens if you get the spectrum of the impulse. Otherwise, what you get is a mix of valid data and the gap. I have actually both measured and provided listening tests of when this happens with USB. See: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-iso-regen-review-and-measurements.1829/post-46635
@@AudioScienceReview Well an FFT is a linear operation, so the FFT of the signal + the gaps should be the same as the FFTs of the gaps and the signal summed afterwards. If a missing sample were to be an independent event i.e. there is no difference in likelyhood of a missing sample given that any of the previous samples were missing, you would get a perfectly flat spectrum, but with a peak at the test frequency, because these pulses are modulated by that frequency. However what you see in your test results I think is that a missing sample is not an independent event, for example a sample is more likely to be missing if the previous one is also missing, which causes a skirt around your test signal in the spectrum. I ran simulations for both of these scenarios in Octave (a MATLAB clone, they took my MATLAB license away when I left school :'-( ). It seemed to line up with the story.
Very interesting as I have been using both the IFi one at the DAC end but couldn’t hear ANY difference so I pulled it out. But the Audioquest was a different matter. This fixed the problem with the usb cable. The cable was making horrible noises and rendering it unusable with my setup. But using the jitterbug made it usable. So whilst I agree that they don’t do anything. It did something. Don’t know what or why but it did. Wonder if you might know. Thanks.
Hi amirm, now I'm confused.
I had jitterbug when it came out and I could not hear any difference with or without it. Now yesterday I saw a video from goldensound about DDC with all the graphs and evidence of a cleaner signal when using DDC. I trust you both. So what's the deal.
so which filter sounds better? which one to choose in my dac ? all work over 22khz, i cant hear any diff. can you?
BTW, about data being transferred to a DAC via USB data connection, wouldn't DAC have any kind of error correction since it is digital data? I am kind of thinking like copying files on Windows. If DAC could do that, we wouldn't need to worry about jitters, correct ? Or is this "data" more like digital signal rather than bits of data ? Sorry for my ignorance.
Amir which DAC do you own? I know you review a lot, but I'm curious which you use primarily?
is there anything you would recommend to improve USB output
Thank you for these videos Amir. You are a treasure to the audio community :)
I tried a jitterbug years ago and I heard no change in my system so back it went. I’m willing to try a lot of things and if I hear a change and a change I like then I usually will keep the tweak
I wonder if i could try this device with a USB hub. I had heard a noise floor when i used a hub so i bought a USB to OPT converter.
Could a battery powered, on-line/always active UPS help filtering out the noise? I read that the PowerQuest® 3 failed to reduce noise which is a expensive surge protector, so i wonder if a constant battery powered UPS could be actually beneficial for noise compared to these type of usb filters/surge protectors. Cheap on-line UPS starts from 160$ and it might be a good investment for other reasons too.
No. A battery can't power anything by itself. You have to put a switching power supply on it to make it useful. Once there, you don't have just a battery powering anything. Batteries by themselves are poor power supplies with declining voltage, internal impedance that is quite complex, etc. I have tested one such device, the Uptone LPS-1 and it did not do well: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-lps-1-linear-power-supply-review-and-measurements.1849/
Would be interesting to see a comparison of different DAC's quality. Maybe a low or medium priced DAC compared to a higher quality like Chord or Antelope or other hifi branded DACs, and why not a mastering studio DAC like Dangerous Music or such.
I have tested a number of mastering/pro DACs from RME to Universal Audio.
@@AudioScienceReview Many thanks. RME and UAudio doesn't do "mastering" DACs, although high quality interfaces, with a premium price tag.
Did you post any results you had?
The bug doesn't know the source data, so what could it theoritcally do to the bit stream it receives?
Love these videos.
Keep up the good work. It's through reviews like this that people learn about scam companies and how they fleece the consumers.
Amir...you are the greatest!!
hi amir, love your reviews on the forum, just discovered the youtube channel ! :DD could you pls review matrix audio Element H USB 3.0 HIFI interface? They claim to create a new USB port from PCIE directly with lots of stuff on the card.. Sounds plausible.. Could you pls help demystify it?
Thanks for the kind words. I actually received an Element H from the company but took so long to test it, that they asked for it back! I hate opening my PC to put things in it. I don't think it would have made much difference anyway.
@@AudioScienceReview ah, yea.. i actually read your comment on this in the forum too. :) I am building a new computer, thinking about buying that USB card, but 250 € isn't cheap for a USB port..
Is there any benefits for having this hardware USB audio dedicated port as they claimed to have an audio dedicated PCI-E connection and not sharing data with other things?
Hello Amirm, would you please check this review of Element H? th-cam.com/video/iPTxhwNqiNs/w-d-xo.html
however, i have more questions to this topic. As you can see on Matrix Audio website, "external power source support" comes in as only the THIRD USP for this card, as they themselves as manufacturer would market it. The first and for most selling point is:
"element H uses Crystek CCHD-575 super-low noise femtosecond clock coordinate with USB 3.0 bridge chip from Texas Instruments, open up independent data channel for USB audio stream. It helps signal bypass the USB controller integrated in the motherboard, avoid sharing data channels with other USB devices."
My question to this is, does this card open an independent data channel, so all the devices using this card in Windows as a playback device, would work in ASIO exclusive mode, rather than needing to go through windows audio mixer in shared mode? This matters because the sample rate and bit depth of the original material should not be messed with windows audio mixer in shared mode.
Furthermore, a better TI chip for the timing, means better jitter performance through any DAC?
My Roccat mouse produces audible noise when moving it back into the dac. Maybe you need to generate audible noise to test it?
I have done that a number of times. These devices do nothing for that as ground noise goes through them. The fix for that is to use Toslink/Optical out of the PC to break the ground loop., Or use XLR balanced interconnects between DAC and amplifier.
@@AudioScienceReview great. Thanks for the reply.
please do Audiophile optimizer
I strongly believe that bits are bits if they are properly received. But, i was listening to music from my laptop to dac and amp through the usb B 3.0 cable but it was always connected to laptop's 2.0 usb A port.
But today I connected the cable to the usb A 3.0 port of the laptop and there is a very clear sound improvement.
if bits are bits, i still don't know how it works but, now i have to believe that cables and purifiers work.
Have someone test you blind a dozen times. See if you identify the port 10 times. If not, then you know your answer. :) Anytime you change things, your brain acts differently and "hears" things that were always there.
@@AudioScienceReview last week I and my friend tried the blind test.
The test equipment:
ifi zen dac v2 + ifi zen can amp + 4.4 balance cable+ Hifiman Edition Xs headphones.
Test case 1: the same equipment is connected to my iPad air 3 through the lightening to usb B adaptor. The audio source is Apple lossless music.
Test case 2: the same equipment is connected to ipad air 5 through the usb C port.
Blind test: me and my friend both participated in the blind test where the listener doesn't know if i am planning between test case 1 or 2.
Me and my friend were able to differentiate the sound difference between the same song from Apple music being played different ly. I took the test for 10 times in which I was able to tell that One device is sounding way better than the other in about 9 times and one time as neutral.
My friend took the same test 6 times in which he was able to identify one device sounding better than the other 5 out of 6 times. And the last one time he said neutral.
Both of us took the blind test and both are able to say that when we connect the dac+ amp + headphones to the usb C in ipad air 5, the sound is far better. Not by a small amount. It is far better.
I am a DSP engineering post graduate. i strongly believe that bits are bits if they are received properly.
Now these blind test results are shocking me .
I sincerely ask your opinion on this scenario.
During the blind test,When the audio equipment is connected to the ipad Air 5 through USB C, the sound stage was wider, the bass was punchier. And also mainly the volume is a bit louder in comparison to when it is connected to ipad air 3 through lightening port.
@@gamingandmusic9217I don't think the difference was from changing USB 2.0 to USB 3.0, as there are DAC's that work perfectly with USB 1.0.
My wild guess is that the USB 2.0 port in your computer was just very noisy, or noisier than the 3.0 one. Archimago did measurements comparing different USB ports in the same computer and some ports are clearly noisier than the others.
I don't disagree with you at all but you need to measure with test tones passing through the device hooked up to a computer because that is the way it is used. I'm not sure it's possible, I don't think it's necessary, but for people that don't understand, maybe it would be the proverbial nail in the coffin.
I don't see how on earth you could claim to do anything with jitter without reclocking the signal with a separate master clock. AudioQuest knows this. It's so annoying. Thank you for taking the time and thank you for your work!!!
Don't know of AQ version but I have used Ifi 49usd one and it does make a solid improvement in noise floor and sound is more pleasant... less grungy , soundstage is wider and deeper.
In some applications it makes bigger difference than in others... I do listen with my ears not oscyloacope or meters.... My ears are well trained over the years
He listened with his ears too, I tested a jitterbug and heard no difference. You have been audiophooled.
@@Taffy84 Never heard jitter bug , have heard iFi and it does work
The key question here is why does ASRs excellent measuring Oppo Sonica sound bad compared to (more expensive) alternatives.
You are a breath of fresh air on TH-cam, no mythical stuff going on here.
Sure there is some 'magic' in sound and music combined with our brains, and that is exactly what you are pointing out, great stuff, love it.
Thank you so much.
Why is he fresh air. Have you tried anything that he debunks, or is it that people who can't spend the money on such things for ligitamate reasons feel better?
Another great, Money Saving video, thank you...
ASR and your reviews have been the best part of coming back to hifi. Many thanks!