Kirmuss KA-RC-1 Ultrasonic Record Cleaner Review and an Ultrasonic Cleaning Primer
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- This is my review of the Kirmuss KA-RC-1 after using it for one year. See below if you want to skip to different sections of the review and please let me know about your experiences with Record Cleaning if you have them.
=============================
VIDEO CHAPTERS
=============================
0:00 Introduction
0:59 How Ultrasonic Cleaning Works
1:38 Ultrasonic Demonstration
2:49 Why Not A High End Model
5:12 The Budget Approach
6:35 The Kirmuss and Package Contents
9:45 Set Up and Tear Down
11:06 Sample The Results
12:38 Conclusions
=============================
END
=============================
#RecordCleaning #UltrasonicRecordCleaning #VinylCommunity - เพลง
Good to see you dropping a video. One of 2021 "vinyl goals" is to step up my cleaning process. This video will help me figure out my approach.
Thanks Eric. It feels good to finally get another video out and I am hoping I can squeak one more out before the end of the year. Ultrasonic is definitely the cleanest I have ever gotten my records and honestly, if you go with one of the quasi DYI versions, it should be just as good and cheaper. Even cheaper than most vacuuming machines on the market. The downside is that it's just a little more labor intensive but it's not so bad.
Great to see you back, please keep them coming!
Thank you Jorge. I might be able to do one more...maybe two during the next two weeks. Will just see how busy my wife makes me with stuff around the house. Happy holidays.
Hey, Paul. Always great to you back with a new vid. Firstly , I honestly burst out laughing at your dry jokes numerous times. Spot on. Spot on, ol’ chap! This is 100% the best vid I’ve seen on ultrasonic cleaners. Extremely thorough job. Seeing that colored pencil quickly dissipate into the water was pretty amazing. I picked up a Record Doctor VI a while back, but am very interested in the Kirmuss. All the extra steps with the mold release agent, then having to clean it again kinda turned me off., but I’d be fine letting it go through once and calling it done. Thanks for both the knowledge and entertainment, Paul.
Hello Nick. I felt exactly the way you did in the interviews with Kirmuss and the anti-fungal process. The way he was selling it was a turn off but I pushed that aside and bought it for the functionality. I didn't feel like spending $2000 more for a filtering and drying capability, only to have to pay more for spare parts after washing a few hundred records. But I also didn't want to spend time messing with spindle attachments. I liked the drop in feature and the capability to easily clean 7" and 10" records. The colored pencil demo was a must because I hadn't seen anyone do it with a record and showing that demonstration will help people understand the capabilities. Thanks for watching and Happy Holidays!
Very informative review with a lot to think about. Thanks for sharing your own experience with this unit. I'm impressed with the fact you can clean multiple records at the same time, that is definitely a bonus for those with 7 and 10 inch collections. I'm with you on the "alcohol debate". 70% is a safe bet and always has been. Thanks again!
Thanks Kurt! Even now, I have a person that wants to debate me on the use of alcohol but I also have a former Chemist (Michigan Record Club) that confirms it's not reactive in the comments. The ability to easily do 7", 10", and 12" records and just drop them in is what sold me on the unit. I didn't want to mess with taking records on and off a spindle so I am a bit lazy in that regard.
Thanks for doing this. I just bought one. It has worked very well for me. It has brought every used record of mine from the 60’s and 70’s back to life. I have used the complete process - the spray and soft scrub then re put thru the machine a couple times. I agree with your review that this may not be the end all and that you may still need a mechanical machine/process to get the dirtiest records clean.
And thank you for watching Kevin! Someday, I will try his complete process, I just need to find a good old, dirty LP to try it with. Hope you and your family have a happy holiday.
I watched this video almost a year ago. Since then I've modified my manual cleaning process and have now put the Kirmis on my list, illuminating others.
Currently, I am still in the research stage of my record cleaning "evilution." So far I have been cleaning records using a manual process that includes Vinyl Styl and Record Doctor cleaning machines. I use the Vinyl Styl, which is similar to the Spin Clean, but with the advantage of goat hair brushes that reach into the record grooves whereas the Spin Clean uses felt pads that only wipe the record surface. I don't fill the resevervour with fluid because I don't like the idea of reusing dirty fluid. Instead I spray my fluid on the record spin it a number of times, let the fluid sit a few minutes, spin again, then use the Record Doctor to suck off the muck. The fluid I use, exclusively, is Audio Intelligent because it uses enzymes to loosen and remove a variety of contaminants which I have confirmed with Jim Pendleton, president of Audio Intelligent and with my ears.
I have seen that white substance that Mr. Kirmis showed in his demonstration in his restoration process. He also demonstrated it with Micheal Fremer. This is the reason I don't fill the Vinyl Styl with fluid.
After I wash, soak, pre-clean, and use the Record Doctor I rinse in the Vinyl Styl with a dedicated set of brushes, then vacuum that off.
So far I can attest to this process. It is time consuming, but it's worth the effort.
I have been considering an ultrasonic machine to augment my method. The Degritter was, for a while, at the top of my list, but I have also been considering the Humminguru. The Degritter may be faster, but I don't think it'll clean any better than my current process, and that makes it cost ineffective. For the price of one Degritter I can buy roughly six Hummingurus. Six of them would give my the advantage of cleaning six vinyl records (I do have LPS, 45s, 78s) at the same time. This option is impractical because I really don't have the space for six machines, not to mention the issue of proper power requirements.
I would like to pre-clean and rinse as many records at a time as I can and then follow-up with a final clean and rinse. The Kirmis offers this possibility. It is now on my list.
The Audio Intelligent products that I use are really reliable, and cost efficient fluids. The company now offers a solution for ultrasonic machines. I'll have to ask Jim Pendleton whether his product can be used in the Kirmis. I suppose I should ask Mr. Kirmis as well, although I my risk unintentionally insulting him.
Thanks for reading.
Great write up on your process John and I think it will work well. An Ultrasonic will definitely augment what you're doing. As for the Degritter, I had the chance to use one at a local shop and I got to say I was disappointed by it. It's nice with all the bells and whistles it has to offer but in the long run, I felt it left some residual static from the drying process. Honestly, it the ultrasonic process you need to go for. The machine that does it shouldn't matter so much. That's just my opinion though.
Really well done video Paul as per usual
Thanks Ron. As much of a pain it was to edit this one together, it was fun to do. Gear videos usually garner the most interest because I think most people want to make informed buying decisions. I hope this helps people a little.
Hi Paul,
I'm just getting to know your channel. I so appreciate your warm, calm approach. I relate to that as well. I've been using a VPI and have been considering adding an ultrasonic cleaner as well. Great intro and review. And LOL that Taxi Driver LP
Happy Holidays
Mark
Thanks Mark. I love the variety you bring to your channel and I am happy you jumped into the video making game. I had been using my VPI for five years before this and was quite content with it but I started to hear about all of the benefits of going ultrasonic. I have found coupling the ultrasonic with a distilled water rinse on the VPI does wonders. With all my new records, I haven't heard the faintest click or pop in months!
Great review & helpful for anyone looking to go this route. I started off with a basic Spin Clean & progressed to vacuum cleaner to a DIY ultra sonic. Each time there were improvements, but I eventually opted for the Audio Desk. To say it's impressive would be an understatement. If you have the money buy one, simple as that. Sonically the difference is impressive.
Thanks Camera Plus. I can be a bit stingy on where I want to spend my money in this whole hobby but if I had more cash to throw around, I probably would have went after the Audio Desk. It is nice that it's an all in one solution.
So good to see you again Paul. I need not say how fantastic your reviews are because they are. This one definitely included. You look better than ever. Do you ever age?
The best of best Christmas to you and your family. Hoping that 2021 helps to make 2020 a distant memory~
Rob/Boston
Thanks for the kind remarks about the age Rob but as each year passes, I am seeing more and more grey in my hair. I also think you have me beat on the age thing. I could swear you look the same as you did when I first started watching you! I wish you the best in the coming weeks and I hope you have a safe and awesome Christmas. Here's to 2021!
Hi Rob👋😁👍
We're a long way from my homemade machine 😄. It all seems amazing! It's great to see you around here again. I hope everything is fine! Happy Holidays. Take care.
Hey, homemade will work just as well as what I have in this case. It's all about the process ;) I hope all is well with you Paul and hope the holiday's treat you well! Hope to see your review of McCartney III.
What a great review. I use a Vinyl Vac to remove the cleaning solution off of my records but the ultrasonic cleaner would definitely be better than what I am currently doing for the actual cleaning process. I was impressed with the way the red pencil just instantly came off. Nice!
After using just a vacuum for a number of years and the Spin Clean before that, I can honestly say, the ultrasonic gets the LPs the cleanest they have ever been. That said, I don't think one needs to spend $950 like I did. I think the cheap DYI solutions will work every bit as good. Thanks for watching as always Melinda and I wish you, your husband, and daughter a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Yes, I must defenitely dive into this subject matter. Thanks Paul, this helped a lot. ❤️
Thanks Pieter. I hope this does help folks in the long run! Happy holidays to you and your family.
@@BarakaPDub To you and your family too, Paul.
Wonderful overview. Thank you.
Thank you Richard! I hope you found it useful.
Good review by the way Paul. I like how it was balanced and on point without straying into conspiracy theories and unrelated complaints, etc. I have seen from some others. It just basically says "well, here it is and my experience, like it or not, you decide". I enjoyed your review. Yes, present and let folks decide, that is the way you do it!
Eric thank you for watching and I think you left a very long detailed comment which a saw last night but has now disappeared. It's weird, I didn't delete it but I remember getting halfway through it before getting distracted on the home front. Yeah, I try to leave to the viewer to decide what they think of the product as I am not a fan of reviews that paint a rosy picture of every product. I don't think any product is perfect so you got to put out the pros and cons.
To answer your first post, based on my recollection, I think everyone has their own process. Is mine definitive? Absolutely not! I recall from your first post something about vacuuming first because if you do it the other way, you get the platter wet. I think either has it's advantages and disadvantages. While I didn't make this video about my comprehensive process, when it comes to vacuuming, you're right, you really don't want to get the VPI platter wet. What I do is I have a plastic sheet which I lay over the platter. After the first side has been vacuumed, I pull the plastic sheet off and vacuum the second side. That way, only the cleaned LP surface is touching the VPI cork platter.
As you can see from the pencil demonstration, the debris, while removed during the Ultrasonic process, doesn't settle immediately to the bottom of the tank. When the process stops, some loose debris can wind back up on your LP surface. This is why I do a double vacuumed rinse each side with distilled water afterwards. Two times might be excessive for some folks but I error on the over conservative side.
With vacuuming, I am also careful not to over vacuum. I always go one, maybe two, revolutions at most; otherwise, you're just imparting dry friction that transfers electrons to the surface of the vinyl. There might be a small amount of residual moisture on the surface and this is what I let air dry. While it is true that no home is dust free, leaving the record out to dry for ten minutes. at most, doesn't really leave much time for a lot of dust to accumulate. Is there some dust that does accumulate...sure. When I play a record, I do so with my lid completely removed so I am more likely to see dust collect when I play the vinyl. Dust just cannot be avoided but it can be mitigated.
For the microfiber cloths, I only use them when dampened, to remove large residual drops of water. I did a video on LP static, where I demonstrated dry rubbing your records with a mircofiber cloth only imparts an electric charge and allows the particles to accumulate.
Hope this explains my process which might be a bit for some. I have seen others that take it far beyond what I do or others that just do it differently. If it makes 'em happy, then why criticize?
@@BarakaPDub Thank you for your kind words Paul. I found my excessively long comment again for you. (It disappeared on me too for a bit). You will find it under the replies to DSaudio.
By the way, you do vacuuming correctly sir! When working with my VPI for initial chemical treatment sessions, I also lay down a cheap vinyl mat on the cork platter for side one, then remove it for side two. Yes, this keeps things clean. I do two revolutions of vacuum, that's it. That gets the record dry enough that it takes only 10 seconds for anything left in the grooves to dry and it goes back into the sleeve.
I hear many complaints that the process takes too long to which I say, if you want the best results you have to be willing to follow the required process.
I'm working on a "paper" regarding record cleaning and "restoration" to submit to the science community. (This will take a while though, several months).
I can tell you my process if you have an email or something.
I used to be an audio journalist (4 years) and met a lot of reviewers. I agree, the constant praise of products does not lend to credibility for reviewer or product. I've seen some real BS in my time. I remain friends with two because they are dead honest and not afraid to speak truths. You might check out Sean Fowler of Zero Fidelity and Thomas from Thomas and Stereo if you haven't already. I don't always agree with everything, but 95% is great odds.
Taking you up on your advice, bro. Thanks!
Thanks Ole Rocker. In this case, I don't think you can go wrong!
Good to have you back Paul, I always look forward to your videos. Now, more importantly, where is the ‘My favourite records of 2020’ video, you’re overdue. Get your skates on! Oh, and by the way, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year from the U.K.
Hello Ron ;) I plan to do my favourites from this year and I hope to do it in the couple of weeks remaining in this year. Incorporating all of the sound samples takes a little time and I want to see how many I can get by with. Merry Christmas to you and a Happy New Year as well ;)
Greetings, Paul! Fab presentation/explanation of ultrasonic record cleaning! Oh man, some of these machines charge so much and then they want you to spend more to buy a separate $100 adapter for 7" and 10" cleanings? Pssshhh.
Looks like plenty of pros with the Kiramuss. The NY Taxi Driver record has me cracking up! Good example choice! It appears the Kiramuss delivered. Pretty amazing. In a few years I'll be upgrading to something like this! I always enjoy your videos. Best editing in the VC! Happy holidays! :-)
Thanks Hanna. There were a few more things I wanted to do with this one but I had a lot of the footage shot early last month. I figured screw it! I need to string what I have together but I am glad it turned out all right. There are ways to do this cheaply for sure and not spend an arm and a leg. The quasi DYI options will work just as good as my unit. It's all really in the process. The rest of it is just added convenience. The NY Taxi Driver was fun but will likely end up in a purge pile at some point down the road.
"Best editing in the VC" - Seriously, if ever there was a VC oscar...
Beware of these adapters that see 6, 8, 10 or 12 records skewered. The ultrasonic's action is canceled by the rejected standing waves. Records too tightly spaced together. If using a cleaner never buy a cleaning solution that does not list the ingredients. Check the ingredients list with the PVC Chemical Compatibility Chart that can be found on the web.
You are a true hero for putting this out Paul. Great video as always. I have the Okki Nokki vac cleaner and I'm very satisfied with it but I bet that a ultra sonic would do an even better job. When my trusted Okki dies ill concider this def! Have a great day Paul. /Jonas
Nothing beats a good Okki Nokki! Dr. Deadwax was trying to sell me on one long before I started to make videos. At the time though, I caught them in the window they stopped making them. God Jul my friend!
Hi Paul!!!!!! Great to see yoooouuuu 👋😄👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
Hello Ian! I hope you are doing well! It's been a very long time.
Awesome to see you Ian! Hope you had a happy holiday season and a Happy New Year! Miss you in the VC brother! I need to send you an email some time; I made an exciting purchase HiFi-wise last year; following your example and recommendation! Take care and again, Happy New Year!
@@h2vinyl okie Buddy!!!!!!! Thank you and have a great time!°°😄😄😄
A well done video, informative and well documented on the operation of Kimuss record cleaner! I was thinking of another system? but pointing out the items that are conducive to wear and tear I see the value of spending a little more for this product! As it was once stated "it only takes a nickel more to go first class!" Thanks Byrne
Thanks Michael. I have cleaned over a thousand records on this unit now and there have been no signs of wear. I am a still a happy user and if I had purchased an even more expensive unit, like the Audio Desk, I would be an extra $500 to $1000 out of pocket buying fluid and rollers. While the DIY machines work just fine, this one will be a little less labor intensive.
I have been waiting for some reviews on the effectiveness of ultrasonic cleaning. Who can argue with the grease pencil example. Great review. I'm still leaning towards a semi-DIY solution, however I do like this price considering some of the more expensive ($3K+) options. Excellent review.
Thanks Flatrocker. IMO, a DYI solution will work every bit as good as any machine on the market. It's all about the process. Everything else is just features added for convenience.
Nice to see you again.
I'd like to try ultra sonic cleaning eventually, but probably only on a few records I know are otherwise in excellent condition, but ones I feel I just can't get that last 5% of dirt out of. Ultrasonic, IMO, is too expensive, noisy, and time consuming for anything but the most coveted records in my collection.
Here's my record cleaning regime in a nutshell. This is what I do for the records I offer for sale in my store.
If they're really gross, I rinse them off in the sink with cold tap water. Then I have two SpinClean units on my counter, one with cleaning solution, the second with just distilled water. After running the records through both, I dry them with the supplied SpinClean cloths, then air dry in a plastic rack. I've had many customers say I have the cleanest pre-owned records in town. I'm pretty proud of that.
Now, if it's a higher end record, or something I'm keeping for myself, I'll go to the next step, which is to use my own homemade RCM. I made it from a plastic milk crate, ice cream maker motor, foot switch, platter, painter's pads, and a small one gallon shop vac with OkiNoki strips on a modified wand. Works as well or better than any RCM I've seen, for a fraction of the price. It requires a little more manual labor, but I've got maybe $85 invested in the whole thing and it works a treat.
I really need to make a video.
I would love to see your process in a dedicated video. I am sure other budget conscient folks would love to see it since a lot of audiophile gear is priced too damn high. Your process is very sound and exactly what I would do on a budget. On the Ultrasonic front though, you could just buy the cleaner for a little over $100, forgo the motor, and thread an LP through a metal rod and manually turn it.
Love the review / video. I have a DIY version similar to those you showed. I use Tergikleen in the bath. I also use a record vacuum to remove the water and leave to air dry. I was concerned about the possibility of not getting all the Tergikleen in the vacuuming process (they advise to rinse record after cleaning). I decided to manually wipe distilled water (soft foam brush) over the record before putting it on the vacuum machine for the "rinsing". Gives an added level of mechanical cleaning as well. Important not to use too high of a bath temperature, I use 30 degrees C. Each full cycle takes about 30 mins not including air dry time. I've rigged my bath to handle two records at a time. I think too many records at one time will reduce effectiveness. Keep up the great videos.
Thanks Downtown Townie. You're right about having too many records. There have been some studies done on the spacing of the records and what is optimal. Being an engineer, I would love to study what was done for them to get to their conclusions. Tergikleen is a product that I have yet to try and I hope to try it in the future.
Fantastic dissertation of the science and mechanics, how things sound after the Kirmuss treatment, and great conclusion about the combination of mechanical+ultrasonic to clean completely!🧘♂️😁🎶
Brother, I wish you and your family to be well, safe and healthy🍀🏡🍀!!!
Thanks Ian. I had wanted to do this one for awhile but haven't had a whole lot of time as of late to make videos. I got to say, you've been missed and I've had to refer a number of people your way on the Nagaoka cartridge. In fact, I might just be buying one as a gift for someone.
@@BarakaPDub Buddy Paul, thank you for your reply. It is warm to hear from you again, and see you again...
Glad to see the vinyl records behind you as usual. Blissful🎶😁☘
@@BarakaPDub you might want to check out the audio Technica at-VM95ML $150 very good cartridge cheap for microline cartridge, what is more ideal better cartridge micro line. Somebody I follow users the mp500 but he uses a different stylus made by a different company says it's better sorry I can't remember the make cheaper replacement as well.
@@HiViNywschannel Whats up Ian..! why don't you do videos anymore!
Miss you, Ian!
I have the Vinyl Stack set up for ultrasonic cleaning with a home brewed surfactant solution that I researched a formula for online which includes alcohol like yours. I also use disc doctor V for vacuum duties. Results are fantastic and really give SIGNIFICANT improvements. Because I’m a bit AR, I finish up with a anti static gun and place in a quality anti static sleeve. Records stay static free after 2 years so far.
Thanks for chiming in Ettore and I am glad I am not alone in the use of a diluted alcohol solution. The Vinyl Stack really is a good option and I've hit their website up several times over the past few years. Also, nothing wrong being AR! All my records get a double distilled water rinse on my vacuuming machine.
Great, great review, thank you.
Thank you for watching and commenting Wolfgang!
Great review not only of the Kirumss, but cost effective considerations of other machines and maintenance. Right now I have a Vinyl Styl for dry cleaning and a Record Doctor for wet cleaning and vacuuming. I am researching the ultrasonic cleaners among others. So far the takeaways are some 2-step method may be necessary depending on the condition of your records.
There are some cheaper solutions out there and some of the DIY rigs work well. I would steer clear of the Hummingguru. I am hearing they are plagued with all kinds of problems and generally have failed after the first 100 or more records. Three years on, my Kirmuss is still running like a champ.
Intelligent and cost minded , excellent presentation. Agree about use of alcohol, concerns seem to be more focused on extraction of plasticisers rather than attack of PVC itself but I use IPA 20%: to deionised water 75%: to surfactant 5 % and have never suffered any embrittlement of the vinyl. Great topic and much needed with people hunting down old vinyl these days.
Thanks so much Steve for watching and commenting. I am glad your experience with IPA matches my own. I've been using it for years and have yet to experience any issues.
Great Video Paul ... Nice soothing music in the background ... Jimmy ...
Thanks Jimmy ;) Sometimes Library Music is good to put in the background as not to keep things too static.
well done, paul. really enjoyable and informative. makes me wish i had more dirty records that necessitated cleaning! loved the mellow ambient background music throughout, too. great to see your face. be well and happy holiday season to you and the fam.
Thanks Michael. This one has been in the works for several weeks now and I really wanted to get out a demonstration of what ultrasonic cleaning could do. The background music is from Artlist. They're great but I wish they had more music in this style I could use. I just wonder how much the artist actually makes from posting their work. I hope you have a Happy Holiday. Any chance we might see another video from you in the next couple of weeks? I am going to try and do one or two more...provided my wife doesn't preoccupy me with a bunch of house work.
@@BarakaPDub the colored pencil demo was impressive to say the least. i wish i had you as a chemistry professor in high school. haha. we have the big four corners vid publishing sunday am. and i have a couple more in the wings before year's end. highly anticipating finding our permanent home with a new listening space and the good bright west coast light to make videos in. tell the wife you have content that people are depending on, sorry...! happy holidays, PW.
I am looking forward to the four corners!
@@BarakaPDub you out-did yourself w/ your submission! wow. you and i also chose the same lp. nice taste, buddy!
@@NotedArchived Its funny because the real one I wanted to do didn't work out. I was shooting myself behind a Green Screen with an LP title X-mas cards from space. I didn't get my lighting right and couldn't key out the green completely so I had to can the idea. Anyway, the Ansermet is really my favorite and really the only Christmasie thing I have on vinyl. Working in a big box media store for five years while in college, killed most Christmas music for me because we had to play it non-stop starting on Black Friday.
I've had the Upscale Audio version of the Kirmuss for 6 months now and I end the cleaning process with a Record Doctor VI for drying. For those who may not want the bunny logo, the Upscale Audio version is the one to get and it actually looks much better. That said, the results will vary depending on condition of the record and how much "elbow grease" you put into it. If it is a new record, often you can just run it though the Kirmuss once and then dry it. But for older records, a bit of "scrubbing" with the solution is needed. There are many ways to clean records but none of them are better than ultrasonic cleaning. I have a lot of records and I use mine almost daily. Ah yes folks, new records do need cleaning before playing them. Also, your stylus and the stylus cleaner should last a very, very long time if you clean records properly.
Thanks for the great comment bulldogdave. I greatly prefer the Upscale Audio version to the one I purchased and I would have gotten that one to avoid the 'bunny.' Your absolutely right about new records too! New records should be cleaned before being placed on the platter.
Like you, I clean all of my new records, in addition to used. For my new records I've gone through the entire Kirmuss process, multiple trips to the bath, spraying and working in surfactant with the goat hair brush, etc.. For used records, this manual portion of the Kirmuss cleaning process is necessary, but for most new records, after reading your comment here, I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time trying to clean new records using the entire process???? Do you run new records through one 5:00 minute cycle, dry and that's it?? Or do you run a shorter cycle, 2-3 mins?? For my new records, I would love to save some time, as my only gripe with this system is the amount of time it takes to clean just one single record, following the Kirmuss process.
fantastic review, thank you. Yes, it's still expensive (for me) but i think it's worth the money and one day i will have one of these
I can't recommend it enough and the cheap, quasi DYI solutions will work just as well. Everything else is there for convenience. Thanks Andreas for watching and commenting.
Thank you Paul for info I’m still using a spin clean with paper towels because diaper rag leaves to many fibers. I have been leaning towards the upscale audio Kirmus bundle thank you again for the review
Nothing wrong with a Spin Clean. It's what I started with and I had the same problem. What I found worked well was to buy a label protector, do a distilled water rinse with a spray bottle, and let the record air dry. The Kirmuss is one of the better budget ways to go ultra sonically.
I have had mine since September of 2019. Nothing but fantastic results for me. The ability to clean multiple sized records, including two 12” records at the same time, is what initially sold me. After using it on a large portion of my collection, I can honestly say that every single one of the records that were cleaned with the Kirmuss system are virtually pop and click free. Charles is a bit obnoxious in many of the TH-cam videos out there, but I found him to be friendly and transparent when I met him in person at a RMAF show. Kirmuss headquarters here in the US, is actually in Denver, where I currently reside.
Thanks Jon for commenting and it's good to know our thoughts and feeling about the machine and Kirmuss are the same ;) It's funny because I am from Wyoming originally and all of my family is still there. I am hoping to hit the RMAF sometime in the future. Hopefully, when all of this COVID stuff abates a bit.
@@BarakaPDub Yeah I’m hoping we actually have RMAF this year. Whereabouts in WY were you originally from. My dad was raised in Douglas, WY and his side of the family has deep roots in Wyoming. I love WY and will hopefully relocate there someday. Only thing I don’t like about it, is the damn wind!! Blows year round!! Summer, winter, the entire year!!!
He replies to emails promptly with detailed replies, that gives him a boost for me too. Many more in this industry could learn a thing from that.
As there is no local dealer in my area I e-mailed. Charles called me soon after and we had a great convo. That has never happened with anybody else. He is committed that's for sure and will 'bend your ear' but he's passionate and it's his 'baby' so I'll cut him some slack. Price and performance wise I think the KA-RC-1 is the best system.
Nice review Paul. I have been wanting to save up for an ultrasonic of some sort. Some of the adapter issues you mentioned on some models worry me as well. I liked the simple process of this, and I think the effectiveness shows in some of your footage. For the price this seems to be the best choice for efficiency and functionality. Now of I can convince the Mrs. Lol. Hope you are well sir!
I hear you on the 'Mrs.' factor. Mine was none to happy with more gear coming into the house but I am happy with it. These units do exceed vacuum units in getting rid of accumulated gunk in the grooves. The Kirmuss unit was actually cheaper than my VPI vacuuming machine funny enough. If you don't want to opt for the Kirmuss, I think a DYI until will operate every bit as good but will just be a little more labor intensive to take the LPs on and off spindles. If I don't comment with you before then, have a Merry Christmas Tim!
Good video Paul, keep them coming. I enjoy the relaxed tone of your channel. I've cleaned my collection of about 1k lps using a Kirmuss over a period of a few months. Its worked very well - no issues to date. TBH I'm not a huge fan of the supplied spray, finding it very time consuming to use as prescribed and also found that it leaves behind white thread like remnants which you'll pick up later with the stylus during playback. I'm just using a solution of distilled water, IPA, Triton X-100 & Behentrimonium. A 5 minute spin in the solution is enough for most lps. I agree that occasionally a manual scrub is required to remove some difficult grunge, even on new lps!
I've heard good things about the Triton X-100. Have you been using it a long time? Thanks for watching and commenting Playback!
@@BarakaPDub Sorry, I just saw your post now. I've only been cleaning my lps for less than a year & after LOTS of online reading as to what mixture to use settled on products that were easy to purchase (Amazon & local drug store) and had been found effective by others who had done their own experimentation = some have put alot of work into publishing their findings. It's such a small amount - I use a 1:1000 Triton/distilled water along with the other couple of ingredients. I only required 100 ml to do 1k lps.
I have used a record bath for years with great results. It has vertical brushes on each side below the surface of the solutuion and you rotate the record manually while in the bath. I use Windex as the cleaning solution. You slowly rotate the record as you bring it out, then rotate it quickly to "centrifugally" get rid of most of the cleaning solution. Finally, stick the album on the drying rack after removing the record holder/label protector. It works fantastic!
Very interesting process Roy&Shashi Brock. I do use a drying rack as I know any dry rubbing of the surface will just generate a static charge on the vinyl.
Morning Paul☕️👋🏻🎄Lis......want 😎
Ahhhhhh I miss you 😶....thank you for this video...happy holidays
Thanks Lis ;) I hope to maybe have one or...maybe two videos out in a couple of weeks. Happy holidays to you as well.
Great video and very well presented. I have a DIY ultrasonic unit that I have been using for 3 years now. I am considering making some alterations to it to help with really dirty LPs.
There is a formula online that suggests adding enzyme cleaner to the mix. It is supposed to help break up the organic matter that gets built up in the grooves. After a 15 minute clean I will rinse the LPs in distilled water and immediately vacuum the fluid up with a modified shop vacuum and felt covered nozzle ensuring that there is no residue left in the grooves.
Thank Peter and the DIY ultrasonic and vacuuming solutions will work just as well. Do you know where you found the formula with enzyme cleaner? I do use enzyme cleaners on occasion and I would be willing to try something different. For me, the rinsing is one of the key elements to the whole cleaning process. Again, thanks for the great comment.
@@BarakaPDub I seem to recall it was in some of this guy's videos. I don't always agree with his methods but some things he suggested makes sense. I like his collection of Jazz material as well.
th-cam.com/channels/fDyDCc5IAEruMJhaVwctag.html
Thanks Peter!
Great video Paul. I worked at Dow Chemical as a chemist. The same Dow that makes the high density Polyvinyl Chloride you mentioned. I personally worked in a waste water lab and studied reactive chemistry and you are correct. Alcohol is not very reactive with your vinyl records. Scrubbing Bubbles (by Dow) is. It is a high caustic cleaner. Vinegar is, it's an acid. (mild acid) I never get into debates with fellow record collectors. It isn't worth it. But you my friend are on the same page.
One last thing is that we use sonic cleaning of most of our lab equipment. We use pure deionized water though. Great job. Great video.
Actual confirmation from a Chemist! This is exactly what I needed! You're right about Scrubbing Bubbles! I use it but very, very sparingly due to it being caustic and I quickly rinse it well afterwards. Not sure how much of a material breakdown can be observed in short, time limited manner. You're right about the debates. In some cases, there is no arguing with the idiot. It's just wasted energy if people have closed minds. I hope you have a happy holiday and I enjoyed your last tag video with Steve.
Fantastic video! Super well done and although this machine is not in my tax bracket, this was informative and helpful.
Thank you
Thanks Jerome. Someone was advertising a model that's half the price of this one that's got a Kickstarter campaign going. It's also has a drying feature. I just hope it actually does hit the market because this whole hobby does not have to be an expensive one.
I recently went the budget route for ultrasonic at about 300 and now am looking to pair it with a vacuuming record cleaner.
Compared to anything else ever used this method is by far the best.
Would love to have a Kirmuss but too rich for my blood.
Cheers
Hello David. Absolutely, nothing wrong with going with the budget route! It's the ultrasonic process you want at the end of the day. How you get there doesn't matter. Everything else is just going to be additional bells and whistles. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Got mine in January, 2019, when they cost $870. I use it three or four times monthly cleaning both NEW and used LPs. It makes a world of difference. I don't mind the manual elbow grease, because you can see how well the unit its cleaning the LPs.
Thanks TBNTX for commenting. I am glad your experience matches that of my own. I too don't mind a little elbow grease. Paying an additional $2000 for the auto drying just doesn't make sense to me at this point in my life.
Great review. I use the Nitty Gritty RCM.
Thanks Chris for watching. The one good thing about the Nitty Gritty's is the vacuum benefits from being below and taking advantage of gravity. I have always liked them for that reason.
I have one of those ultra sonic after market tanks with a very very vinyl clear adapter, which allows up to crazy 10 records at a time. Surfactants are a must. I use Tergikleen. Start up degassing, 6 minutes first clean ,lift out 3 records spray surfactants working the in the vinyl. Repeat process 3 times, then I use my Okki Nokki and distilled water rise and love my results. An hour or two drifts by very fast cheers Johnnie
Hello Johnnie. Yes it is a bit laborious and your process seems a bit more involved but you're right about getting good results in the end. It would be nice to do 10 records in one shot.
I have one and I like it. I too use it the same way you do. It's a better clean and you can hear the difference.
Awesome! I am glad to know I am not the only one out there. Thanks for commenting!
I have a degritter and the results are stunning and no expensive consumables and no disc contact. 2nd hand vinyls gets 3 heavy cleans and it sounds like new.
If I were to go for a full up, do everything model, the Degritter would be my product of choice. I've heard a lot of great things about them. And yes, used vinyl, gets treated the same way with me.
ok... thank you. i want a kirmuss and will get one when i have my vinyl rig up and running again.
Cool. If you pick one up, please let me know what you think of it.
I have the upscale audio version of it an I love it. The only thing I have to say about the machine is that you need to complement it with an anti static gun. Great video.
Thanks for commenting and watching Yohan. While I didn't get into it here, I do a double rinse on my VPI and doing that, I've had zero problems with static. The key is not to over vacuum. Too much dry friction will just induce static.
Quick question my friend. I have seen the video about the cleaning solution you make. Are you planning on keep using it with the Kirmuss or did you came up with a new recipe? if so do you mind sharing? I found the Kirmuss solution super expensive. ($ 85dollars for 10 oz)
@@yohanmarchena9599 $85 for a bottle??? Whoa! Is this his anti-static stuff? I haven't used it at all. As for my cleaner, I do use it on occasion with my vacuuming machine when I know I have some really tough stuff that ultrasonic won't totally eliminate. As for Kirmuss, I do follow his suggestion of putting in 40 ml of 70% iso alcohol.
"You feel as if your life is being threatened. " I truly LOLd. I'm running an Okki Nokki and for pretty dirty LPs two passes and then rinsed with water it works great. (I buy a lot of used LPs) I don't think people understand how sturdy vinyl truly is--it can bounce back from dirt, just not physical damage--which is pretty hard to do, really. I've been thinking about adding an ultrasonic but haven't yet found the need for one.
So Kirmuss himself, rubs a lot of people raw with his sales tactics and that bled right into his instruction manual. It's all a bit over the top if you ask me but looking past that I was sold on the drop in ability. That said, the Okki Nokki's are good RCMs. They are what I tell people to buy if they are looking to vacuum. My VPI is overpriced for what it is and I wanted an Okki Nokki at the time but they discontinued making them only to resume production after I bought my VPI. Thanks for watching and commenting Joe.
Fantastic.......thank you very much for your honest and informative video.......definitely something a vinyl collector needs.....i ll try to see whats the situation here in Greece or do i have to order it from abroad in case i decide to pull the trigger as you say......happy holidays.......
Happy holidays to you as well! I can't recommend this process enough and I think the demo speaks for itself. If you can't find it in Greece, I would hope you could find some similar solutions that are just as good. The DYI method should work just as well if you ask me.
Appreciated very much the review. To comment, our process changes the charge of the record relative to that of water. This takes full advantage of the cavitation effect of the sonic. The spray worked onto the record does this. We need several cycles since the record returns to the same charge of water as it spins. We first remove past films from prior cleanings, then the release agent. Peer sonics cannot do this as they rely on a soap or just water in a sonic's basin for cleaning.
Thank you sir and I hope this garners you a few more sales. Personally, I think the way you've employed your solution is the most practical out there on the market. I am looking to find a good record to try out your entire process and perhaps cover it in another video down the road.
Hey Charles I got a sweet deal on a bridge. You interested?
If the spray is as you say antifreeze, why would it cost $95 for a 10 oz diluted bottle? Although interested in your machine. I can't imagine any reason for the $10 per fluid ounce cost of this. How many records does one 10 oz bottle clean?
@Chel Illingworth The liquid is made in Germany, shipped by air to China. The additive is exclusive to us. Liquid not available in any other fashion. It is not antifreeze! It is propanedipl 1,-2-178. Then shipped by air to the US
Then shipped to you at no charge.
If you are familiar with logistics shipping by air just for the China to USA portion went from $46 a box to $113. Duties went from 3.8,% to 3.8% plus 25% from the Trump Tax. This said the cost to restore a record is between 0.26 and 0.38 which varies with the number of cycles in the machine. Only three squirts of spray are applied to the record. The goat hair brush is used to cover the record and thus change the charge of the record to be opposite to that of water. Following our instructions the record does not have to be drenched in liquid as it is not a cleaning solution. It is s used to attract the effects of cavitation.
Take a look at our series of training videos on our channel and in comparison the AudioDeske sees one of their bottles suggested to be used per day, no longer keeping the cleaning solution in the machine for months as agreed the filter cannot filter out dirt and dust of 3 to 5 microns using a filter of 120 to 300 micron diameter pores.
Their cost is about $3 per record.
Finally, our process is the only one proven to remove the release agent revealing 1.3 to 4 dB gain over floor. Depending on the provenance of the record.
Certainly at the maximum cost of 0.38 cents or so per record discounting the need for distilled water, we allow your existing sound system reach its full potential with no change in hardware. This as we now see the needle making full contact with all the details of the pressing,
With a restored and not surface shined record, it's a good idest to perhaps now also invest in the Wally Tools set of alignment tools.
To expand on your observation, and my response, why do not peers talk about dB gain over floor? Most processes use air or vacuum drying, which leaves a film on the record thus temporarily hiding the flaws and issues. Our process sees records come out virtually dry.
Check out our 45 minute video recorded in front of Korean audio journalists this past November.
Sorry to be wordy but you need to understand the process. 36 cents per record for the results we guarantee with shipping and tax included is very reasonable for the auditory results you are receiving
Propanediol is the spelling.
Great review! Recent interviews with Dr Kirmuss he is quick to point out most solutions are just bubblers and not real cavitation / ultrasonic. I have a humminguru and my sense is while it does a fine job of cleaning up basic problems easily, like new records with factory crud, it does not work as well as the Krimuss solution. Ionization is the name of the game too and it is a rinse / repeat restoration solution versus many of these other products.
For me the rinse and repeat is one of the main things for getting a good clean sound. Thanks so much for catching the video. I have been curious about the Humminguru product and have contemplated buying one to try it out.
Great review and video Paul! Thank you! 🙏🏻 I just have one question that someone may have asked already but I just wanted to know how loud is the unit in operation? Would it have to be used in a separate room as per loudness or is it fairly quiet?
Thanks again!
It's definitely loud enough to bother someone in the same room for sure. It's not as loud as my VPI vacuum cleaner but it's up there. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Solid review Paul. Anyone doesn’t want their alcohol send it my way. Lol.
Ha ha! Love it Dave and thanks for watching and commenting...as always!
Hi Paul. Very interesting video. I'm gonna get one of these someday so it's great to have your thoughts on such a product. Peace- Pat
Thanks Patrick. Even with a cheap, Do It Yourself (DIY) version, it should be just as good as anything on the market. I hope you have a happy holiday my friend!
@@BarakaPDub Thank you very much Paul. Happy holidays to you and your loved ones.
Great review Paul; I've been looking at the Kirmuss cleaner as it is a lot less expensive than other models. I met Charles Kirmuss thru TH-cam and his interaction with Michael Fremer. Charles is eccentric to say the least; but I've been curious in his product. Apparently he's been caught up in some controversy with release agents/fungal/soap pulled from the record using his cleaning solutions. Have you seen these videos? They are probably around June 2018 on Fremer's channel and I'm curious about your thoughts on this? I'm not certain what to believe. Yet an ultrasonic cleaner is an ultrasonic cleaner (given some caveats of Hz, filtering and drying) and glad to hear this is a good one. That sound sample sounded incredible. Did you use the vacuum on that sample record before the ultrasonic? I was very impressed by the condition of the cleaning! Great job as always and I'm hoping to catch up on more of your videos! Happy New Year brother!
So I had followed the antifungal controversy for a bit. Personally, I didn't buy into it and his pushy attitude about it was a bit off putting. I think it really put him on the offensive in a lot of online forums. That said, when I encounter an LP that I really can't get click or pop free, I would be willing to try it but to answer your question about my process; the Ultrasonic coupled with a vacuumed, distilled water rinse and an air dry has left all of my records virtually pop and click free so I can't complain. The key on the vacuuming part is not to over vacuum. If the LP surface becomes totally dry then you run the risk of just inducing static so I do one rev on a vacuum and let the rest air dry.
If I were Charles, I would drop the antifungal stuff or sell it separately to lower the overall price of his package. The ability just to drop in records of multiple sizes is what sold me on his model.
Hi Paul. Fantastic and informative review on the Kirmuss. So much so that I've ordered one mostly because of your video. You mention that you couple the ultrasonic process with a vacuum machine as well. What I'm not clear on is where you preform the vacuum step in your process. Do you vacuum before or after the ultrasonic cleaning process and do you use a cleaning solution during the vacuum step? Thanks and all the best.
Thank you so much for watching and going for it! That makes me happy you decided to take the dive. So my current process is the following: 1.) Examine the surface for major caked on debris and give any areas of concern a light scrub with a damp Mofi brush. Since I buy 90% new records, I don't have to do this step but occasional I do pick up a used record that needs a bit of spot treatment. 2.) Conduct an ultrasonic clean to remove all the major residuals and fine particles. You'll note that the particles have a tendency to float around in the tank before settling on the bottom so they can come back in contact with the surface even after Ultrasonic cleaning process has just finished. 3.) A distilled water rinse, two times, on my vacuum machine to remove any particles that may have come back in contact with the surface. I only vacuum one or two revolutions. The key is not to over vacuum as it will just induce static on the LP surface. I am okay with a very fine mist of water on the surface as an indicator. I let the remaining moisture evaporate on a drying rack. In my case, my drying rack is a letter filer I picked up at an Office Depot. Doing all of this has left my LPs virtually click and pop free. I hope this helps. Others may do something different and that's okay. It's seems everyone has their own voodoo magic ;) Mine seems to work for me, anyway.
@@BarakaPDub Thanks so much for the walkthrough of your process. I'll try doing the same when I receive mine in a week or two. Appreciate it!
I bought the same cleaner on alibaba for $250, works great!
Nice Vid dude
Thank you Mike! I am glad you liked it.
You had me at vapor bubbles
Ha ha! Thanks Thomas.
Great video Paul. One downside with the other more expensive ultrasonic machines is that you voided your warranty by using any kind of surfactant. Of course using a surfactant like alcohol is important in the operation an effectiveness of these machines. Also those crazy expensive paint roller brushes that you had to replace. Cheers
Thanks Karl! Do you have an Audio Desk, Klaudio, or Degritter then? That's one thing I forgot to mention specifically was the cleaning fluid. That said, I already voided my warranty with my VPI but straying from their preferred solutions ;) Thanks for commenting and have a happy holiday.
How would they know?
Thanks for the review Paul. You teased this video a while back and I've been looking forward to it. From everything that I've seen I believe Ultrasonic is the way to go for cleaning and a vacuum for drying. Really nice job on the review! The Kiramuss seems like a really nice system. I agree that it's not worth spending up just because it saves you a little bit of manual labor. How is the noise level of the Kiramuss? I know ultrasonic cleaners can be loud. What's with the bunny? lol. I've looked in to making a DIY ultrasonic system but keep getting cold feet. I think I want to get the vacuum system first and then add the ultrasonic cleaner. I've been gathering quite a purge stack to take in for trade so I'm hoping I can put those funds towards a quality vacuum system. And then when I'm able to, add the ultrasonic into the cleaning setup. I'd be interested in your opinion on my plan. That NY Taxi Driver record was awesome! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and your family! We're not sending out Christmas Cards this year but if we were you'd be getting one. Take care!
Hello Bill. With work and family, it took me forever to pull this one together. I also had periods where my motivation waned because I work in the same room I am shooting in so I hate being locked in the same place for 16 hours ;) Ultrasonic is definitely the way to go and I find it better than just vacuuming alone but I was content with vacuuming alone before this. In terms of the loudness, it is loud but my vacuuming machine is louder. The loudness issue really confines when you can do it with a family in the house. If you're going for a vacuum, I would go with an Okki Nokki or Project (but not their lowest end model). I have a VPI but I think Okki Nokki and the ProJects do it better and cheaper. Hope that helps and no worries on the Christmas Cards! I am terrible with those.
Nice video!!! I have one of the other machines you mention 6a liter ultrasonic electric cleaning machine I just bought the tank & mad everything else my self. I can do up to 6-7 records at a time & I just made a 2nd drying rack (so while 7 are beaning cleaned 7 are drying.) I don't use distilled water or alcohol my solution I used reverse osmosis water, Then I if I need to (or I'll do it solo) I use my Project VC-s Vacuum record cleaning machine, Both together work great.
It's funny, I am looking at setting up a reverse osmosis system in my home. Just as long as you can filter out all of the hard elements, I suppose it could be fine. Thanks for watching and commenting Paul.
@@BarakaPDub funny I watched your video again I for got I had made this comment Almost mad it again! I get reverse osmosis water at Whole Foods for $0.98 for 2 gallons My jugs there water. Yes it does work well with my Project VC-s machine . Happy Spinning my Friend..
Great review. I clean my records using the vinyl vac record vacuum wand, and it has made my records a lot quieter and there are fewer clicks and pops, but the one negative thing I’ve noticed is that there is sometimes a very small amount of dirt or dust on the stylus after playing a record. If you could perhaps do a comparison of your stylus before and after playing an ultrasonically cleaned record, I would be able to judge for myself whether buying an ultrasonic cleaner is worth it.
Good question Nathan! So I can say without a doubt, that regardless of the cleaning method, you're always going to get stuff on your stylus. Basically, even if the vinyl was pristine, your stylus diamond is lightly, and I mean lightly, scrapping the walls of the record groove. Both your diamond and the record groove wall wear down with time. Not to fear though, you would have to play the same record hundreds, if not a thousand times to really have impact to the sound of the record if it's well cared for. If you listen to the hardcore audiophiles, there are those that clean their stylus after every side of the record played to remove the small bits of vinyl and dust that do get collected. I am not that anal retentive but I do clean my stylus after every three or four LPs in one session. Some would call that amount of cleaning anal retentive but it is good to regularly clean your stylus less you accumulate things that could do lasting damage. I hope this helps.
You are looking for absolute perfection. it does not exist.
Thanks for another great video Paul. What is the record cleaning brand/model that you use to vacuum dry your records. Thanks again. Have a great holiday season.
So the Vacuum machine is the VPI MW-1. Would I recommend it to others...no. I think the Okki Nokki (if you can find it) and the Pro-Ject VC-S2 are better options for the money. The MW-1 overheats and will automatically stop working after cleaning 20 records in one sitting. You have to let it cool down. VPI put an undersized motor in it IMO and they could have done better. That said, it does great but I think it's overpriced for what it is. The reason why I bought it is because the Okki Nokki stopped production at the time of my purchase and the Pro-Ject wasn't on the market. This was the first VPI priced at $1000 that could vacuum forwards and backwards. The 16.5 model, which is cheaper, can only vacuum in one direction and is housed in fiber board. Fiber board and water are not a good combo ;)
@@BarakaPDub Thanks. I have the Kirmuss and it is capable of restoring records that are in pretty bad condition. It takes some patience and a bit of elbow grease, but it's a terrific system. Its only weakness is drying which requires either a towel or drip-dry, neither of which is optimal. I'd even take a DIY solution with a shop vac, a hand-held PVC pipe wand and something sqweegee-like (what Michael Fremer calls "magic lips") embedded lengthwise into the wand. Thanks again from all of us vinyl folks.
Hei, Paul!
Ultrasonic cleaner is the best way to clean vinyl. I have a little ultrasonic cleaner and I've used it for years to clean my 7" singles. If I would have some extra money I would buy an ultrasonic cleaner which would be big enough for 12" vinyl but around here they are not cheap.
Great and interesting video,
Jarkko/MyVinylBar
I have seen a few folks just buy a 6 Liter tank and thread a metal rod through the spindle and manually rotate the records. The cheapest tanks run just over $100 and since they're made in China, perhaps, you can find something of the equivalent in Finland? Thanks for watching my friend!
Hi Paul. Cool to see you have gone the route of ultrasonic record cleaning. There is no way back. I have never heard a fifties record so clean :) Seems we are both lazy, or a bit too busy, to build one ourselves ;) Do you see any change in dirt removal with one or two records in the unit? Cheers. /Paul
Hello Paul. Good question but I haven't seen any real difference doing two records or one record at a time. I know the internet forums are filled with debates on the number of records you can do and the spacing but I didn't want to wade into that territory here. While I didn't go over my whole process here, once my records are done in the Kirmuss, they go right on my VPI for a dual distilled water rinse/vacuuming. As you can see from the demo, without the active filtering, some debris can land right back on the LPs surface after the process stops. This means without the active filtration, the rinsing becomes a little more critical. You're right about getting records the cleanest they have ever been. My VPI could not remove as much debris as the ultrasonic could.
Excellent review Paul, I have almost bought this thing so many times. Maybe it can be a purchase at some point next year. Yeah one of the turnoffs is mr Kirmuss himself can be condescending and preachy, at least what I have seen of him in video appears that way. I was hoping he would be at the Florida Audio Expo that we went to in February but he wasn't.
Kirmuss bugged the s%&t out of me too on pushing his anti-fungal solution. Looking past it, the one thing that sold me on it was the record drop in capability. I opted for the convenience of not having to take records on and off of a spindle. Honestly, I think even the DYI solutions will work just as good. It's just a little more hassle. Thanks for watching Wes and happy holidays.
Thanks for this Paul, excellent video on how ultrasonic cleans your record. I have been looking for a solution to clean new records and the dollar bin once. Been looking at many different brands like Okki Nokki, Loricraft, etc. Also been into the Degritter (easy one) and Audio desk, but they are pretty pricy, even if I believe it will be worth every dollar in the end. But I don't want to buy serval machines, one is enough. I will check this up and see if it's possible to get in Europe.
If you can afford the Degritter, that's the one I would shoot for. Yes, they are pricey but it's always nice to have a one shot solution. There is a comment here from someone in the thread with a much cheaper solution (~$300) with a Kickstarter campaign. They met their funding goal. I do like the Kirmuss and it should do well if you can get it in Europe. The down side is that you won't get the automatic drying and will have to do that independently.
Shut up and take my money!! Sorry Paul, it's just that your production on your videos is pro quality in itself that I'm sold on that alone.
This video was a delight to watch - and honestly, how often can you say that about record cleaning videos? I can appreciate your thinking behind your setup; a tad less automation for a lot less coin, with little difference in results... no wonder you went the kirmuss. The $3k-$4k machines are all fine if you're running a shop and are cleaning volumes that affect your prices, otherwise people buying them have a problem i'd love - too much money!
Good to see you back, thank you for a wonderful video and I hope all is well in your world. At least I know your records are very clean, and that's a great start! Cheers- Dean
I seriously considered going for one of the high end machines before I started reading up on DIY solutions. Then I realized, I would rather spend that additional money on records or other equipment. To me, I think the DIY solutions will work every bit as good. You're just missing all of the convenience features. That said, I did opt for convenience when I went for this one and wanted the ability to just drop the records in without having to mess with a spindle and assorted attachments.
I hope you are doing well. Things have been crazy here with work and listening time has been strange this year but I hope to explain that a bit more in a video to come in the next couple of weeks ;) Merry Christmas my friend!
@@BarakaPDub you struck a great balance between performance, convenience and price. I hear you there on listening time this year - I can't listen to as much as I want and feel a fraud putting a video out without having listened to the new music I've found! Take care, speak soon :)
Loved this review and I am planning on getting this Kirmuss machine for my records. So are you using the vacuum as a drying process once you have done the ultrasonic cleaner? That sounds like a way to cover just about all of your bases for sure. Thanks for the video!
In my opinion, regardless of the ultrasonic machine, not all of the removed particulate immediately settles to the bottom of the tank. Some may actually end up back on the records surface. I use the vacuum to do a distilled water rinse for a final cleaning step. The key to vacuuming is not to over vacuum as it will just end up inducing static on the surface. I will vacuum for one or two revolutions and let the remaining fine water droplets to evaporate in short air dry process. Doing this, depending on the quality of the record pressing and condition, will leave the surface 97 to 100% free of any clicks or pops. My process might be a bit too extensive for many but I have found it to work for me. Hope this helps.
@@BarakaPDub That’s a great idea. Thank you for letting me know your process! 👍
@@BarakaPDub what you are doing, is what i will eventually do. i have the kirmuss right now, and in a few months get the vacuum.
I took a look at the Kirmuss web site and THEY CERTAINLY HAVE AN AFFECTION FOR WRITING IN ALL CAPS. It's funny, Paul, I was cleaning a couple of records this morning in my $80 piece of injection-molder plastic and thought "I should do a video about this" then thankfully thought otherwise as your video would have put me to shame. ;-) Seriously, given my buying habits so far which have mostly been with VG+ used or brand new records, this cleaning system has served me fine. If I dive more into buying much older mono records, and gravitate toward VG items, I may switch to a vacuum plus ultrasonic system instead, probably something like a groove doctor plus a $300-400 cobbled-together ultrasonic solution. I do have a mono cartridge on a spare headshell, and I think there are gems to be had in VG Land i extremely properly cleaned and played with a mono cartridge. As always, a great video! Love the bubble sound effects!
Cheers, Tom
Thanks Tom and there is nothing wrong with sticking to a budget and using an injected molded piece of plastic. I was that way for a long time ;) I think cheap DYI solutions to vacuuming and ultrasonic cleaning can do every bit of good as the pricier models. The pricier models just add more convenience features and nothing more. I mean, even I opted for convenience for not wanting to mess around taking records off of spindles. I agree with you on VG land. I want to do a video on vinyl to digital conversion which works fantastic with VG records.
@@BarakaPDub The viny-to-digital concept always intrigued me since I've heard claims that it sounds exactly the same but I've never tried to do it myself to confirm that. It seems to me that if you take the time to rip a record, then you later upgrade the table, cartridge of phono stage, you'll probably want to rip it all over again. And then, you know... it never ends. ;-)
how do you use photo flo in your restoration work-flo?? tks for the very informative vid
So I like to use photo flo, a few drops, in the tank. Personally, I think it helps a bit as a surfactant.
Any thoughts or ideas for a attachment piece to use on a small shop vac for sucking/drying the album? I'm sure there's a small head I could line with felt or another soft non scratching material but you seem to know your stuff so I'm asking you. Thanks and Merry Christmas.
A shop vac should work fine but with vacuuming, my only warning is not to over do it. With my VPI, I've noticed that if I over vacuum, I just induce static back on the surface. You get to the point where your surface becomes too dry and you just generate friction which just deposits electrons on the vinyl surface. For vacuuming, I usually do one, maybe two, revolutions at most and leave it on a rack for five minutes for a final dry. Thanks for watching and commenting Tim. Merry Christmas.
KLaudio is back and being sold thru Acoustic Sounds.
Best Ultrasonic unit on the market
I do like the Klaudio since it doesn't require the $100 replacement parts or cleaners for every 100 records spun. Thanks for watching audiotomb.
Hi. Great review of the Kirmuss ultra sonic cleaner !! Very informative, I have a question though. After cleaning with the kirmuss, how many times - roughly, do you play the record, before cleaning it again ?
Oh geez...I am a terrible one to ask on that point. There's only a few records I have returned to clean but usually my rule of thumb is when I start to hear an increase in clicks and pops, then I reclean the records. I am okay with a click or pop hear or there because sometimes it's the vinyl itself that's the problem but for the most part after a good clean, most of my records are tick and pop free. I do know people that are extremely anal and clean their records before every play. While I can be anal, I am not that anal.
@@BarakaPDub Good to know, then there will be more listening time 😀
Almost exactly the second birthday of this video! It's a dandy, well done, Paul.
I watched this a couple months ago for the first time and didn't get the nuances. I've since seen several Kirmuss videos and understand the overall approach much better now. I gotta say I find the guy behind this company extremely off-putting, like you mentioned with the included literature and its frequent all caps and bold passages.
I've put off going down the cleaning rabbit hole for many years now because I anticipated it would be just that: a rabbit hole. And it really is that. So many competing theories and personalities and egos and vested interests. Almost all of them (even contradictory ones) sound plausible and it seems you just have to try them out to find out what works. After several years of not going beyond an Audio Technica home cleaning kit and (don't laugh) wood glue, I'm quickly coming to a similar conclusion as you: manual agitation/vacuum system combined with ultrasonic.
I'm currently doing pretty much what Patrick/Vinyl Archivist does in his 1-2 year old video with his vacuum system. It's pretty good and I've rescued several records with those techniques, but for too many records it's still not enough. I'd like to think that ultrasonic afterwards would be the thing that does the trick. The audio sample in your video is impressive and I want to be able to achieve that too.
I've considered the Humminguru because of its relatively low cost and several VCers seem to like it. But I'm concerned that it seems underpowered. So, the Kirmuss is increasingly seeming like the way to go.
Where are you at with it now, two years after making this video and (I believe) 3 years after buying one? Has your enthusiasm for it increased, decreased, or stayed the same? Are you doing anything differently now?
✌️
Ian
I still love the system and it's still working like a champ. I haven't bothered with the defungal stuff that he hypes. With my method most new records end up being 99% pop and click free. Today I got to sample a Degritter with a Classic Records audiophile pressing and I can tell you I was underwhelmed. I think part of the problem is the auto drying and no rinse. The record through the Degritter, while improved, we're not 100% click and pop free. The record looked almost pristine going in and coming out. If I spent over $3000 on a cleaning machine, I would honestly want better peformance out of it. If you're looking to go a bit cheaper than this, the Kirmuss Ultrasonic tank is generic. You'll find the tank on other brands and I would buy it or something like it separately and use something like the Vinyl Stack to rotate the records through the bath.
Now as to the Humminguru, I would be worried about the reliability of the unit. I have been hearing stories about breakdowns after 100 to 200 records being cleaned. It's attractively priced though.
@@BarakaPDub good to know, thanks for the feedback!
Hello Paul. I wrote this morning a comment on the four corners video from this morning, then Michael from Germany suggested I write to you on your channel. I am very interested in knowing more about the topic you went over briefly, stylus set ups and loud pops.
Sure. I am happy to help. Not all stylus or needles are designed the same and all have a different amount of surface area that touches the grooves of the record. The Shibata, on the 2M Black touches lot more of the surface so it's also more sensitive to debris. The best write up on stylus geometry that I have seen has come from Peter Ledermann who owns and runs Soundsmith. www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information
Hope this helps.
@@BarakaPDub thank you so much, will read it and see how it goes. Thank you again.
Hi Paul, I saw other videos where they add a few drops of photo-flo 200 along with the 99% isopropyl alcohol instead of the 70%. Just wondering if you have tried this solution instead of the one you described in this video. If so, which one do you think cleans better. Thanks!
I haven't tried that particular mixture at all. It might clean a little better but I would have to experiment with it a bit. I do think you will get to the point of diminishing returns after a certain point.
Thanks for the great video! What kind of vacuum are you pairing this with? I am looking at a Kirmuss, but buying a vacuum is another piece of gear, which requires more room. Could the vacuum be avoided by buying Degritter or an Audiodesk or do you think those units would also require a vacuum? FYI - ListenUp in Denver has the Kirmuss on sale for $850 right now. Another question: does this unit ever cause the label to get wet?
Thanks for the great questions Israels & Neuman. So to answer your last question, no matter what machine you buy it's going to be almost impossible to avoid getting the occasional label wet. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it to much as they quickly dry and it's almost impossible to notice that the label was wet. There are some exceptions though. I have some records which were made in the former Eastern Block (i.e. Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc.) that used cheap dies in their labels and it cause the die to run. Now for the vacuum, most people don't bother. They go one way or the other with the cleaning but I do both. The reason why I do both is because the particulate that's removed from the ultrasonic doesn't immediately settle back at the bottom of the tank. I use the vacuuming machine to do a distilled water rinse, removing any remaining particulate and I let the remaining, fine water droplets, air dry after a rev or two of vacuuming. This process usually gives me an LP that's 97 to 100% click and pop free if it's a well pressed record. Just doing the ultrasonic alone is going to get rid of the vast majority of residue that's collected on the surface though. The AudioDeske and Degritter just have a few more bells and whistles by blow drying the record after the ultrasonic bath. If I had to chose between the two, I would go with the Degritter. The AudioDeske has proprietary fluid and rollers which can be an expensive proposition if you buy a lot of records. If you add the vacuuming machine, I think I would go for the Pro-Ject VC-S2 ALU. I am using a VPI MW-1 which is way overpriced for what it is. I honestly think the Pro-Ject is better designed and half the price. Hope this helps.
@@BarakaPDub Thanks!
@@BarakaPDub I do the same system. I traded up from the Pro-Ject machine to the VPI. The motor in the Pro-Ject is louder, and I felt the VPI had better suction power and was actually quieter. The Project looks nicer, but all of these machines look pretty bad sitting around your house except maybe the degritter. I sometimes think of selling Kirmuss and VPI to fund a degritter, but I can't seem to care about record cleaning enough to make the time to do it LOL. Most days I brush the dust into a line on the record with a basic CF brush and roll it off w/ a record roller. It is shocking how much dust records have, but the surface dust brushes off easily on clean records.
I already have a Project VCS2 vacuum machine but was thinking of buying a Kirmus machine . Does the ultrasonic cleaner as well as the vacuum machine really make that much more of a difference than just using the vacuum machine on its own
So I found a big improvement doing both in tandem. I don't think the vacuum machine will remove everything but then again, an ultrasonic isn't going to remove everything either. The challenge I found with the vacuum machine was not to over vacuum as you end up just inducing more static on the vinyl. I do use the vacuum machine for a distilled rinse and mechanical agitator when needed. I hope that helps explain my thought process.
Thank you for this one. So there is no drying process - right? Thank you.
That's correct. Drying is manual with the Kirmuss
@@BarakaPDub Thank you.
I would be interested in your review of the $500 HumminGuru machine. I only do a very few records at a time, so the multi-record factor of the Kirmuss isn’t persuasive. I also like, from video demonstrations, the smaller form factor and general quiet operation - I am in an apartment. Also, a related question, do you do vacuuming after or before the US treatment? Thanks for your candid comments. They help. The K machine is just too big for me.
The Humminguru is definitely the product of the year for me. While I don't own one, I do think having something more at that level will get more people into it. This shouldn't be made so expensive. As for the vacuuming, I do it afterwards. Why, you might ask? When you ultrasonic, not everything ends back up at the bottom of the tank. Some particulate that's removed can float back on the vinyl surface so a distilled water rinse on the vacuum machine, to me, ensures everything is removed. I hope that helps explain my thought process.
I just got my Kirmuss machine the other day and I have fired it up tonight. I thought you might be glad to hear that there is no bunny on the front of my machine. He must have heard you lol/. Poor bunny 🐰
Awesome! I am really glad he changed the package to be a bit more professional looking. I am going to run my Disney version until the thing falls apart ;)
@@BarakaPDub it does look more professional without it, I would say. I tried your suggestion of drying the record with vacuum and distilled water. It worked great! Thank you for the suggestion. The Kirmuss is one amazing system. I cleaned about 10 records last night, both mono LPs from the 50s and a handful of 10 inch EPs from the 40s. I listened to a few of them afterwards and I could not believe how good they sound. This system requires some work, but I think it is well worth it. And a must for me because a large part of my collection are those old mono albums and EPs. Thanks again for this video. It was really a fantastic review. I appreciate it. 👍
Outstanding! I am glad you're now experiencing what a really clean album can do to your system. With your comment, I feel like I've done my job so thank you.
Ws hoping to hear a before and after for the sound test.. i man yeah it sounded great, but was it really bad before?
Ah. Your question is fair but honestly, it was terrible. We're talking a click and pop every 5 to 10 seconds without the cleaning.
Hi Paul, 8 liters are a lot for 20 LPs, are you filtering the water afterwards and reuse it? What about using the ultrasonic first and then washing/drying it with the vacuum?
Drying like you showed looks like leaving the durty water on the lp or did I miss sth?
So you're right about the water usage and I could filter it out but I get the distilled water cheaply. Long term though, I am thinking about filtering. A DYI solution is pretty easy to do. On the drying...so my process is, once I have pulled them out of the Ultrasonic, they end up on the VPI for a dual rinse on each side, and then on the drying rack for a final dry of any fine mist that remains. The key is not to over vacuum. Since doing this, it's a very, very rare event to hear a pop or a click. Hope that explains my process a bit and I didn't want to get into it in this video.
@@BarakaPDub thanks for the clear explanation, this is what I meant, over vacuum is an issue and I do it like you, having a final drying just putting the vinyl on a rack, because on some areas of a vinyl, and every vinyl is different, a little film of water remains,
I bought the Kirmuss and find it’s working well. I was wondering about adding a flocculant to the bath to help the particulates sink to the bottom. Anyone try that?
Interesting thought. Have you tried it? I would be curious to know the results.
Great video. What is your process with new records? Do you use the Kirmuss? Do you use the surfactant on new records? Thank you in advance.
Thanks for the question Tom. My process is usually the same regardless of the record. Most new records coming from the factory usually have small amounts of debris on them. Likely from the trimming process to form the outer edge but I also have found paper debris if they are using cheap paper inners. I always start with the Kirmuss and the ultrasonic process does require a surfactant; otherwise, the water will continue to cling to the surface. After the ultrasonic clean, I move to my vacuuming machine and do a rinse with distilled water. As you can see from the demonstration, not all the debris immediately settles to the bottom of the tank. Some will float back on the surface but it's loose enough now to be picked up by the vacuum. I realize this is probably pretty involved for most people but if you don't have a vacuum, I would rinse with a Spinclean or spray a fine mist of distilled water with a spray bottle and wipe down with a damp microfiber cloth. I highly recommend a dampened rag because wiping down with a dry cloth will just impart static back on the surface of the LP. I then let it air dry for a short time before putting it in a new record sleeve. Hope this helps.
@@BarakaPDub Excellent. Thank you for taking the time to reply. I do have both. Do you have a preference for surfactant?
I normally use alcohol as my surfactant but I have also used Kodak Fotoflo in small amounts.
@@BarakaPDub
Hi Paul,
For any records, new or used, I would like to suggest somewhat reversing your steps and see what you think. Instead of putting the records first into the Kirmuss machine, I would suggest either a run through something like a SpinClean or if you have a vacuum RCM do either a rinse and vac cycle or a chemical (MoFi SuperWash or AVIS #6 or more intense kit depending on the record), rinse and vac first, then a run through the Kirmuss machine if needed. (In my experience, some records get plenty good just from a MoFi or AVIS treatment alone, especially new records or used Classical records are almost a sure bet).
Why do I suggest this? Well, first of all, it makes less work for the Kirmuss machine in the sense that you are not wasting surfactant, but more importantly is that the Kirmuss machine, like most others, does not have a filter system, so if you run a very dirty record through it and then go to run another, you run the risk of the previous debris (especially from new records) becoming projectiles launched at your record. (In cavitation those little bits of PVC, some of which may be microscopic, from the edges of new records or what have you will end up floating around and can do damage). That is why my hard and fast rule is never to put a very dirty record into an ultrasonic bath.
Another reason is that the idea is to have the ultrasonic bath get deep into the grooves from the get go, so by first putting a new or unrinsed record in the USRCM you are just getting the first layers and would need to run the record through at least twice. On top of that, you would have to change the water after each record that way because it would get too dirty quickly. That is a waste of surfactant as well. By at least rinsing the record first initially, you could then run something like 20 records through the Kirmuss machine before needing to change the water.
By the way, the point of the surfactant is to get the water attracted to the surface of the record, without it the water will just bead right off, but the other important point is to change the atomic or molecular charge of the record to the opposite of the distilled water so that it (and the bubbles or plasma/energy waves) does get onto the whole surface and in the grooves. A record is a similar positive charge as the water in this case, so like magnets of similar polarity, they repel instead of attract. By changing the charge of the object to be cleaned (a record in this case) with a surfactant, the water or cavitation bubbles if you prefer are attracted to the record. Surfactants come in different varieties and the type depends on what you are trying to do. In this case, you want to attract the water and bubbles to clean the object, so an ether-based surfactant is desired. Alcohol is an ether and can work to a point to change the molecular charge of the record, but the problem is that it evaporates too fast to be effective enough. A polypropylene (many types of those as well), which is formulated as an ether-based surfactant has a longer shelf life so to speak. It takes about 2 minutes to evaporate and is structured in a way that is a better surfactant choice in this case. We are not trying to change the molecular charge of the water, which is a herculean task, it is easier to do so with the object to be cleaned.
Part of why I personally, would not use Fotoflo is that it is actually the opposite of what we want. I used to be a darkroom photographer. Foto-flo is the last step in print development. It is used to stop the fixer bath, prevent water spots, stains and excessive soaking or impregnation with fluid of the photo paper. Without it, the prints would get too much fixer, which will destroy them by crystallization and the photos would not dry quickly and be a mess to handle, not to mention have a very short shelf life. It's like a wax or sealant on your car to protect the paint for one analogy.
Microfiber towel drying won’t build up static if done correctly. Like vacuum drying it doesn’t require much. In the method I do, I start with a dry microfiber towel and wipe going with the grooves, it usually takes the equivalent of two revolutions on a vacuum machine before it is “dry enough” to be gone over once with the velvet peristatic brush, which makes sure the grooves are completely dry. (About 10 seconds later the record is bone dry and ready to be sleeved, no static charge in my experience). In my experience, the towel automatically gets damp enough the second it touches the record, no need to pre-dampen. It gets to the point that I have to get a fresh dry towel about every 5 or 6 records or so. Yes, overdoing it will build static just like overdoing vacuum drying (anything beyond two revolutions on a VPI 16.5, which is plenty, will increase the chance of building static exponentially in my experience).
As always, your mileage may vary. This may save a step or a little time for you, not sure.
Hello, again. Recently I put my mofi copy of Allman Brothers Live at the Fillmore into the Kirmuss and the felt wiper bars scratched the record. Prob because of the thickness. Knowing you collect high end records like Mofi, Music Matters, etc, do you do anything different to avoid the scratching them? Maybe remove the felt wipers? Thanks in advance.
Wow! I am so sorry to hear that Tom and it sucks that it happened to that copy! I haven't had any problems with scratching a record at all. I wonder if something got stuck in the bar itself? Maybe a vinyl shaving? Maybe try swapping out the bars and trying it out with the same record or a newer dollar bin record (Sacrificial Lamb) to see if you get the same result?
I have this machine and haven’t started using it yet. I also have an vacuum cleaning machine , I noticed you mentioned you use both machines, at what stage do you use the vacuum cleaner? I was thinking the records need a good rinse after it runs through the kirmuss? Thanks
My logic is that I use the vacuum cleaner after the Ultrasonic. A lot of the particles can float back on the LP surface after the cleaning so I vacuum rinse with distilled water afterwards. I let it go a rev or two only and let the rest air dry. Over vacuuming, like VPI will sometimes recommend, just introduces more static if the LP surface gets too dry.
@@BarakaPDub ok this is what I was thinking was needed, also to clean out any left over surfactant? I usually leave 2 revs, and then use the anti stat gun before putting a record on the table.
barakaPdub do you use your vacuum cleaner before the sonic bath? I feel like the pre vacuum has good be a good idea!
Nothing wrong with a pre-vacuum at all but I vacuum afterwards with a distilled water rinse. The problem with the ultrasonic is as soon as your cycle ends, any particulates don't immediately settle to the bottom of the tank. Some of them can land right back on the surface as gravity pulls them down. This is my logic for the post rinse cycle.
Which order: VPI (vacuum) clean first, then ultrasonic clean? Or ultrasonic clean first?
I ultrasonic clean first and then vacuum with distilled water. My rationale, as you can see from the video, the particulates that are removed during the ultrasonic process don't drop immediately to the bottom of the tank. There's a good chance some loose debris will land back on the vinyl once the process stops and you pull it out of the tank. The VPI also helps to speed up the drying process. I let the VPI run one or two revolutions and let any remaining fine droplets air dry in a rack. I avoid going more than two revolutions on either side as my experience is that over vacuuming just creates more friction. More friction just leads to more static build up. Hope that helps.
Cool that you get such great results! Do you know the frequency of the Kirmuss? Just so I understood correctly. You have water (distilled - de-ionised) + IPA + ultrasonic. Then you rinse in water (distilled- de-ionised) and air dry?
Correct on the process but unfortunately, I don't think I can give you an answer on the frequency. I read somewhere it's the same as the Audio Deske but I can't remember where I read that.
@@BarakaPDub Cheers. What drying rack are you using? I like that design.
I am just using a letter filer that I found at the Office Depot. One of the best $5 I ever spent! Plus, the metal only touches the labels and not the vinyl...if you're careful.
@@BarakaPDub Oh great, thanks for the tip. You might consider dipping the parts that touch the labels in that Plasti-dip... the stuff used for tool handles and things. Thanks for your help and advice!
Does it work without the lid on so I can clean my bike drive train parts inbetween records??. Will change water ovbs
Yes, you can run it without the lid and clean other things ;)
Paul imho. If you're serious in regards to sound. Then money (to a degree) shouldn't be an issue. Especially when it comes to some sort of record cleaning machine. Thanks for the info 👍
You know. I was really, really tempted to get the Audio Desk they year before I bought this guy. But I looked at it and thought I would rather put my money in a new cartridge. The life of an audiophile...where do you choose to spend your money. Thanks for watching my friend!
@@BarakaPDub Indeed.
why does 12:05 sound more clear and crisp than at 12:35? was that a before and after cleaning demo? if so , 12:05 sounded better to me, 12:35 lost some high frequency sparkle.
Hello Chris. This wasn't really a before/after demo at all. This is just showing that the clicks/pops were all eliminated through the course of the cleaning. The source material is variable and that's due to how it was recorded. Unfortunately, longer sound samples are likely to get flagged with a copyright strike and I didn't want this video taken down. It would have been fun to use a well known audiophile record. If I ever do a demo like this again, I will consider doing a before and after demo.
HI Paul! Your review sealed the deal for me and I just ordered one. Are you just rack drying? My idea was to use a vacuum machine to dry once they come out of the Kirmuss to lessen exposure. Thoughts? And your using just distilled water and isopropyl...no surfactant? Or is the isopropyl acting as one? I have read others doing a follow up rinse to remove any residue from the water/surfactant combo with just distilled water. Necessary or myth? What length of time are you running the records at? Lastly, are you heating the water? If so, what temperature? Thanks!
Good question dmsaudio and I hope you like the unit. So while I didn't get into it here, since my process gets quite involved, here is my answer to your first question. After I am done with the Ultrasonic part, I then move it to my vacuuming machine for a rinse with distilled water. My experience with vacuuming is that you have to be careful not to over vacuum as the excessive friction, when the record becomes too dry, will just induce static back on the LP. So when I do the vacuuming rinse, I only go one maybe two revolutions to the point where you might see some very fine residual droplets and then I let the remainder air dry. As you can see from the demo, the debris just doesn't immediately settle at the bottom of the tank. Some of it can come back in contact with the LP surface so this is why I rinse. For your second question, the alcohol is acting as a surfactant. When I run my records through the Ultrasonic, I find that five to six minutes is usually enough. If your still seeing caked on stuff after that amount of time, then it's time to do a manual spot treatment with a non-abrasive brush.
As for the temperature, so the water is going to be heated naturally. The ultrasonic process is basically putting energy into the water so it warms up as a part of the whole process. Personally, even when you end up at the unit's redline indicator, I have never felt it to be excessively hot. It feels like nice warm bath water. Hope this helps.
@@BarakaPDub thanks for the reply! Great info to get me going. Super tip on the potential for static on the vacuum.
I have a Spin Clean I thought I’d fill with just distilled water for the rinse and then figure out the drying part. No vacuum yet. Have a couple of the Groove Washer “Record Landing Towels” coming so I’ll see if they work at all. Appreciate it!!
If you have no vacuum, no worries. I would just use a damp microfiber cloth, after using the Spin Clean, to wipe down the larger water droplets and then let it air dry.
May I add something if I might? I have been using the KRC-1 for almost two years now. I also have a VPI 16.5 still in use after 6 years.
I would not recommend vacuum drying after the ultrasonic. I had that same thought early on, but noted something in further research. While it won't do any harm to the record if you know what you're doing, but more so it is very inconvenient. The record comes out of the bath with both sides wet. Now you are going to put a wet record on the platter of your vacuum RCM, not a good idea. Now you are also wetting whatever happens to be on the platter and stick to the record. When you flip to do the other side you raise the potential of getting something trapped under the vacuum tube for starters.
Air drying only invites all the contaminants floating around in your home to fall back onto the record and in the grooves, defeating all your work.
I found the most convenient way is to towel dry with a clean, soft, lint-free microfiber towel (I keep a few on hand). Microfiber auto detail towels are great for this, but you can find such towels everywhere. I towel dry going with the grooves and then follow with a once around with the round velvet end of the supplied peristatic brush (this ensures the grooves are dry).
I also offer that Isopropyl is not a good surfactant in this use. I'm not a chemist, but I did study some chemistry in relation to record care. Isopropyl has a similar atomic charge to distilled water, which is positive. (I like physics too and have a formal year of that under my belt). Records have a native positive atomic charge as well. As you may know, too high a concentration of isopropyl (much higher than the suggested amount from Kirmuss) can make a record much harder to clean as well. The use of it in the amount suggested by Mr. Kirmuss won't do any harm and is meant to help remove fingerprints and oils. Personally, I don't use it as I find no need because I have already taken care of such things chemically using my VPI.
The "surfactant" that comes with the KRC-1 is different, it is a "polypropyl". Essentially, it is considered an ether. In certain mixes ethers can be good surfactants. This surfactant is applied to the record directly before putting it in the bath. What it does (beyond letting you know where you are at in the cleaning process for which I use a different process) is more scientific. For the ultrasonic bath of distilled water to work we need to change the atomic charge of the item being cleaned to the opposite of the fluid in the bath (in this case distilled water). So the surfactant is temporarily changing the charge of the record to a negative. This helps to attract the water/bubbles to the record both on the surface and in the grooves. Due to the atomic charge of the PVC formula used for records they are naturally repellent to distilled water for example. All it does is bead and bounce off.
Try this: Run a record through the KRC-1 for a minute or two without the surfactant and note the reaction. Does the water bead when you take it out? Is the record hardly wet? Then do it again, but this time apply the surfactant in the recommended amount (doing more is just wasteful) before you put it back in the bath. Note the reaction when you take the record out. You will likely notice it is more wet and little to no beading. This is because the surfactant has temporarily changed the atomic charge of the record to the opposite of the water. This only lasts a short time hence the 5 minute cycle time.
The other reason for the 5 minute time is due to the transducers. 35kHz is just about the right effective frequency for records. Leaving a record in a 35kHz bath for say 20 to 30 minutes though can actually do harm by affecting and even leaching plasticizers from the record, making it turn brittle over time. (I've heard this happening with 40 to 44kHz units from makes like KLAudio. Their set default time is 10 minutes. One time won't likely end the world, but do it 3 or 4 times could bring unwanted results after a year or so).
As for a follow up rinse: You can if you want, no harm in it, but it is not necessary, the water and ratio of surfactant won't hurt anything as it is mostly removed anyway even before you dry the record. The time to change the water is when it gets murky. That is mostly from contaminates off the record and very little to due with the surfactant itself, but it also tells you it has done its job.
As stated from Paul, the water heats naturally from cavitation. 95 degrees is the recommended max temperature for records from such labels as Sony, etc. I wouldn't worry about 96, 97 or 98 degrees though, perfectly fine. The important thing about the temperature here though has to do with the transducers. They are ceramic (most are) and they heat up. This heat can weaken and break down the transducers if left unchecked and over time, greatly shortening their lifespan. The heat of the water adds to the issue as the transducers cool at a much slower rate because of that. That is why it is strongly suggested in the instructions to let the unit cool for (it says 10 to 15 minutes, but I find 20 to 25 minutes to be better). You can do this after every 20 records or so or when the little red light stays on.
Hot tip suggested by someone I know who tried it: To cool down the unit faster and buy more time, at the point where you need to stop, drop one of those little freezer packs in the bath for 10 or 15 minutes....works great! Just be sure it is clean. I now keep a separate clean one in my freezer for this purpose.
Hope this helps.
Got my Kirmuss today and cleaned 3 records. Still some clicks/pops left behind but was better. These were all older, well played LPs...Kiss, Led Zeppelin and The Beatles. I recorded a song from all 3 records into Pro Tools and then cleaned the records, then recorded the same tracks again so I could A/B. 4 rounds of cleaning. A bit more high end in each. Many of the louder clicks were gone but a far amount of the quieter ones remained. One surprising thing was The Beatles (mono Sgt Pepper) had a skip in the track that I forgot about. After cleaning it played through that spot...no skip. Not bad for first attempt. Not much if any gain increase. Hoping to improve on the results, but maybe there is only so much that it can revitalize. Going to rewatch some videos and try again tomorrow.
In the literature that came with it was an announcement about a record platter accessory (KA-RS-1). This should be an included item as placing the records just on the felt mat (and on the supplied towel) is not conducive to wiping or applying the surfactant. In fact I got fuzz off the towel onto the record. Fortunately I had something from a previous purchase that served the purpose of the platter and worked well.
Do you toss the vat liquid, distilled water with IPA, when you empty the tank as per Kirmuss? That seems a bit excessive when cleaning only a couple LPs. Or do you bottle it and reuse it?
There are some people that filter the water and reuse it. Me personally??? I wait until I have a good batch of records to clean and it's a one time use for me. I can get distilled water at around a little over a dollar for a few liters so it's not that big of hit to me.
@@BarakaPDub thank you