You're right, this is what went wrong in my childhood. It all came to a head when at 49 I tried to communicate something important to my mother (about the way she casually labelled me sensitive and emotional) she just would. not. hear. it. I was given the silent treatment. She was so wounded. My dad reprimanded me for hurting her. I've gone through hell the last 3 years, she will not acknowledge that she did anything wrong and in fact, has just continued to shame, blame, smear and exclude me. The ONLY way back in to the family is to apologise to her so I will ''live in defiance'' of her, merely by standing firm in my own interpretation of events. That's it. That's all I've done. But I'm persona non grata to the entire family. In the same way that she labelled me sensitive because she didn't have the empathy to sympathise with me when I was growing up, now, she doesn't have the patience to listen to me so therefore I must be ''aggressive''' to have even tried to be heard. I am invisible. She is unreachable. It won't change. It's sad.
I avoided looking to my mom for support because I knew she wouldn't be up to the task and I would be saddened. Then when I had kids I understood a mother's role and I was able to see that she was the one who was defective, not me.
Me too. I am now at 60 trying to define who I am. I cling to the hope of Jesus..... Fortunately I am independent. I'm free. Just need to quit looking back at the horror.
I'm so sorry you're going through this, it hurts to face the truth. I'm just a random person, but I'm proud of you for standing your ground and not backing down. It's sad she won't take responsibility and that he's letting her get away with it. It reminds me a lot of my parents, he would always make excuses for her instead of getting professional help for the whole family. She wasn't nice to him either. You deserve people that treat you with respect and cares about you❤
You have a very clear perspective and that means you're free and you can take your life into your own hands. You're not under her spell like the rest of the clan. You're a brave person who won in this battle of the mind and heart.
“For the scapegoat survivor working to recover a loving and respectful relationship with themselves, they must stay in connection with the parts that were invisible to the parent. This means incrementally tolerating feelings of shame, self loathing and despair that used to go along with being visible.” - profound. I’ve had many coping modes to deal with shame - generally avoidance - to defend myself from the shame (intellectualising and avoiding my shameful feelings) which has only helped to hurt me more over time. Rumination, obsessive note taking - I’ve learnt one has to feel the pain of being invisible, invalidated and never having an authentic connection with one’s parent(s) - it’s the only way I hope to heal.
There was so much emotional neglect underlying everything else. I remember trying to get them to pay attention and attune to me, and I always had to attune to them instead. Your videos are really validating bc it feels like I'm being seen and understood. "Oh, someone else gets it, it wasn't just me. It wasn't all in my head."
One of the craziest legacy of an NPD parent / household is that we who grew up there, only later realize that other families don't have this effect that once we close the door of our "homes" things just change. It is an unspoken rule in those households that behind close doors, we are not the shiny cool family we show (lie) to the world. It is a huge weight for a kid. The weight of the lie.
It's a good day when you decide to stop playing along with dirty little secrets of someone else's design that only serve to hurt you. That's their biggest fear-- that other people are going to figure them out. 😮
My few family members have ostracized me so completely, I only found out two weeks ago that my father has died, and my constant torment has ended. I'm sad that they plan to scatter his ashes & I will never know where. But the relief has begun... At age 17, my self-portrait was a three pointed crack in the road. At age 22, it was a shoebox that was taped shut, but you could hear broken glass when shaken. Now at 61, I have 3 autoimmune disorders, I'm unable to work, and I'm struggling to survive. Yet, with the death of my tormentor, I feel like life is just beginning! No more being ignored or dismissed, being treated like I'm defective. Gaining distance from your tormentors is NECESSARY & ESSENTIAL for your health and well-being! Blessings & healing to you all!
I met an INCREDIBLY AWESOME WOMAN who has autoimmune disorder. She was a social worker for MANY YEARS and now she takes care of animals. I wondered if she had a TRAUMA that was crippling her. She had explained that her brother had died of an accident and she was suffering from survivors guilt from a young age. @@cristinagonzalez6591
I'm so happy for you! I relate to your experience; my abuser's suicide 4 years ago set me free, and I am now on a healing journey. May we BOTH find peace. BTW, I also have autoimmune disease
My narc mom has never see me as I am. Im after 40 and still it hurts so bad. She never believes me and never really hear me. Its so awful when in her eyes I can see pure hate when I say something wrong. I am sick of being her doormate, nobody deserve it .
Dump her. She's been asking for it for years, and it'll be the best thing you ever do for yourself. I know that story all too well, and I don't play the game anymore. ❤
Go no contact while she's still here, will be healing for you. And btw, She believes you, What a narcissist does, is they pretend not to believe you/this is gaslighting. They pretend not to UNDERSTAND you/gaslighting. Kick her to the curb, - yesterday. If she's got you under financial dependence, or you're expecting an inheritance. I hope you'll figure it out and make a plan.
I’ve done a lot of work in therapy on my recovery from having a covert narcissistic mother. I learned to see her as a limited person, incapable of being a good parent. What I missed until more recently was her hostility towards me and my brothers, but especially me as the oldest and only girl. Consequently, I have been able to see people’s limitations and the good in them, but often missed their hostility, trusting lovers who didn’t care about me or treat me with respect. I recently broke up with a guy who was very much like my mother. I finally saw his hostility, blinders I really needed to take off. It’s dangerous to be blind about people’s hostility! I’m learning about putting my own needs first, very challenging after neglect. I’m learning not to go into a tailspin if I make a mistake or can’t reach a goal in the timeframe I had in mind.
Before I went no contact, I asked my narcissistic egg donor and experimental question: "What do you know about me after I was 5 years old?" She glowered at me and responded: "I don't know, you tell me." I was 23. She was supposed to be my mom. She was supposed to know more about me than most people in the world. But in that moment, I realized that she had always been a stranger to me and always would be. There was nothing of substance that was lost when I went no contact--just my own grief at the fact that I never had real parents in the first place.
It's the same with my parents. The only things they "know" about me are the negative assumptions they've held since I was a child. I would regret having kids also, if I deliberately avoided the best parts of being a parent. It's kind of amazing that they could actively avoid knowing me for 35 years. They never made me feel like an actual person, I never get warm feelings around them, I can't go to them for advice about problems, so going NC with my mom didn't feel like I was missing anything. I miss the parents I never had, but that's it.
I can relate, though I never asked that question, I know the feeling well. I was reading somewhere, some years ago, that one of the signs of a narcissistic parent is buying strange or unwanted gifts for birthdays, christmas, because they don't who the child is really or what they want. Always found this to be true. Obviously this is one of the less serious experiences, and even when I got older, I saw the funny side a bit as they would give me gifts I didn't want, so I'd end up selling the stuff or giving it away. But overall, yes, there is a lot of grief. At the opposite extreme though, I think of examples of parents/children who are extremely close and as beautiful as this is, it seems almost like they could fall apart when they lose that parent. At least I try to take comfort that this won't happen to me, because the grief was more gradual and drawn out over years and is mostly in the past now. There is a strength we get from somewhere.
Oof how right you are Mr. Reid 😮💨 being thrown under the bus by one’s own father constantly without ceasing ,sometimes I don’t even know how I made it this far in my mid 30’s without having off’d myself as a kid, everyday was a living hell 😔
I want to tell you something, the STRENGTH you have developed from that TORTURE and NOT off'ing yourself will be what SAVES YOU! I am NOT in any ways giving your abuser credit I just know what you are saying! In todays WORLD it seems like suicide is a THANG (and that SUCKS) but just give yourself credit for your STRENGTH!
@@janettemartin4604 thank you for your kinds words, yes I understand and you are right tho I may forget at times or doubt the veracity of it all but it is something my therapist has told me as well, it seems certain things are apparent to others except ourselves like our own virtues. Learning all this that Mr. Reid teaches has been such an eye opener and everything made sense after that.
@@michaelmessenger5742 thank you, I appreciate your words of encouragement and you’re so right being stronger than what I think I am, my therapist has said the same before tho I may forget at times .
@@janettemartin4604 you know it’s strange but lately I keep thinking about one scene in a Hollywood movie called Monsters ball where one of the characters has an abusive dad and so the son always tries to be “enough” in his dads eyes-it never happens and so in the scene he asks his dad something around the lines of “did you ever love me?” If I remember the movie correctly-it’s been a few years since last I saw it ,anyways he then proceeds to turn a gun onto himself and shoot his chest clear thru the recliner. Tragic shocking scene, anyway what I’m getting at is that throughout the whole movie their father son relationship seemed normal to me ,I thought that was normal 😢, and so I was confused as to why that ended up happening and in my personal life I never understood why I always had suicidal ideation up until a few years ago and put two and two together, it all makes sense now. I’m glad I never followed thru🥲
Another very good video. Exactly. I often have said my purpose in my mother's life was to sit and look interested as she talked endlessly about all her thoughts and feelings. I can't recall a time we actually had a two-way conversation, EVER. Not surprisingly for a narcissist, she also thinks she knows all about what goes on in my head despite never once having listened.
Avoid visibility to others; that hits hard having wished I was invisible in public. Only bad things came from being noticed at home, so that's what I expected from everyone. Now I can understand why I have had social anxiety my whole life, 54 now, but didn't know then why I was so afraid of all others seeing me and expecting rejection from everyone. I had a new mechanic give me a $saving bid on new head gaskets for my car; highly discounted, and I began to sob on the phone as I thanked him! So embarassing! But I learned to one would ever care about or help me at a young age, and had been used and walked on for decades. Nice people didn't seem to exist for me. Sad what you can learn at "home". 😢
For my parents. I’m like a chess piece. An object that is there that they know how to use. That’s it, that’s all there is to know. You’re like an object that’s just there.
As a child, I had always wondered why my narc mom never heard me, why my problems and requests were so irrelevant to her that they didn't even deserve an answer, a comment...It was painful to feel ignored, invisible, in the end I gave up, and our "conversations" became simple monologues where I felt silenced and lost my voice. Clearly, I thought I was the problem. Fortunately, I found enough information about NPD to understand better the issue but much of my self-esteem and self-love have been damaged. Still working on my healing, though I'm in my sixties.
Great videos, you have really got to the essence of what goes on in these families. My mother was a narcissistic person, I used to joke with my friends that I could win the Nobel Peace Prize but it still wouldn't be good enough and she would find some way to put it down 😂😂
this is so accurate. at school my teachers used to ask if i was alright or something is happening at home my family are very narcissistss abusing me and i was forced to say im ok and i can never say anything about what happened and i have several traumas and diseases now because of the narcs abuse at work and home im still surviving being the scapegoat and your videos help me understand this abuse jay i never knew there was a word for this abuse and it was only me like my "family" said
" 3) Throwing you under the bus. A narcissistic parent may also only see negative qualities in a child, and this serves the parent's needs by getting them to feel superior by virtue of being unlike this child, so the parent relocates their sense of worthlessness into this child, then influences the child to identify with those feelings. In order for this to work, the parent and child have to believe consciously that there is nothing good about the child. " Thank you, this is so enlightening and validates exactly my experience. I'm in my late 40s now. I had been no contact for 10 years then 5 years ago decided to begin to reconcile. I could forgive, so hoped this would come with time. Not much has changed from her side though. I am nothing but a scapegoat to her, despite seeming to get along on the surface and having conversations that are ok, the mask slips too often. I don't believe myself to be worthless, and maybe this bothers her. I am not outwardly very successful, did not marry, etc. I am content enough though, but being a narcissist she probably doesn't see this because only outward appearance and social status and 'what other people think' etc matter to them. Your comment is enlightening because maybe in attempting to have conversations and genuinely trying to get along, I sometimes have shared vulnerabilities (not a lot and not everything, but it's in my nature to share ordinary things, without thinking I'm being judged or categorised). Anyway, a recent gaslighting episode has changed all that anyway and I won't be accepting a phone call from her again. But now I understand why more clearly. She listens to me not in an open way but in a biased way, scanning for 'worthlessness'. She is 73 now, so the reality is, this bias is not going to change. Thanks again for helping me see the situation more clearly. The feeling superior bit is very true as well. She 'talks down' to me at times though I called her out clearly on a phrase she kept using when saying goodbye, a few months ago, and got upset, she said she would never say it again, but then just continued saying it the next conversation. I really feel like she doesn't wish me well, and even would like something bad to happen to me. I am a strong enough person, and been through a lot, but to preserve and protect myself I have to seriously distance from her now. (I am already doing this before watching your video, but this part really helps me to see things more clearly)
I’m in the same situation. 56 years of hoping to be seen. I’m slowly processing the knowledge that I never will be. She’s 82 and incapable of change. So onwards I march through this journey. I hope you’re doing well 😊
You mentioned an example of someone who felt like harming herself after being invisible for so long. I imagine this can lead to much self-sabotage and maybe even masochism? Your talks are so hard hitting and realistic and they take me back to my childhood wounds. It' a strange coincidence, but I'm in a book group that is reading Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man". I may see the book quite differently after hearing your amazingly insightful podcast. Thanks for the recognition and help to understand my family dynamics and some complicated feelings I've had for too many years better. We're not at all invisible to you. You see inside of us. It's healing to be seen.
Something that i am beginning to see as i heal is how our inner landscape is shaped by those who can see us and acknowkedge our needs. For anyone else wjo has difficulty honoring their own needs, if a parent didnt acknowledge or recognize our neefs thrn sometimes its like a screen we dont have in our system, since we learn to take other proples needs and make them our own... Ive been working on this for awhile, and noticing how my needs evaporate when im near my narcissistic parent. It takes tiime, not tp heal but to form enough of an inner self with needs and boundaries... I always wondered why i had no boundaries? How can you have boundaties without that inner landscape/ inner self? It all kinda goes together, dont you think? Thank you for your videos! They always help me to feel sane again! 💕
i was invisible for my father. He would not talk to me or even look at me. I only could keep his attention talking about politics or philosophy. The other subject that kept the attention of my father was history. I studied History at Uni. But my father still was not paying attention.He won't call me by my name and wouldn't talk on history with me. It was like I had disappeared. For the rest of my life I couldn't talk with my father except for certain courtesy I felt like a ghost. It was sad.
Absolutely the same, only interested in politics and history conversations. In my case I did a PhD and two post docs from Ivy Leagues to gain my father’s respect. Only to be told by my father last Sunday that my husband (a film technician) was more intelligent and my sister more successful. We can’t win this. Best we save the rest of our lives. Good luck for your recovery ❤️🩹
With my father, it was mathematics and science. I felt like I had math dyslexia, I struggled so hard to overcome, but could never reach his level of brilliance in those areas. So I got shut out early on, due to my lack of gifts in his favorite areas. On the other hand, I consider myself very smart in other skills. It's sad that many of my last conversations with him were, " I'm smart, just in different ways." I still wanted him to "see me." Now that my father has just passed on, I'm going to focus on trying to make myself happy!
1000 pro the same. I can unerstamd you all here. You can merely talk with him about normal "lame" day to day stuff, he is pnpy interested in disscussions about politics, history an conspiracy theories. And how I could forget it- of course u cannot have any other opion on any topic, bc than u get silent treatet.😂😂
@cristinagonzalez6591 @sunalini13 The Silent Treatment is abuse. < : - ( I'm so sorry you experienced that. It's so confusing and disturbing that the boost narcissists get from a child's shared interests or accomplishments can change to intolerable ego threat in a blink of an eye. More evidence that authentic connection and building their child's strengths and self-esteem was never their interest, only seeing themselves reflected at twice their natural size. : - ( It has supercharged my healing to immerse myself in content from Jay and other narcissism savvy therapists like Dr. Ramani, Les Carter, Patrick Teahan, and Dr. Ingrid Clayton (Teahan and Clayton are occasionally *funny,* which is an extra bonus! ; - ). Also, learning about Childhood Emotional Neglect, and the books Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker and John Bradshaw's classic Homecoming on inner child work (transformative!). After so many years feeling uniquely flawed and alone for having such a dysfunctional family, it's such a blessing to finally feel happier and easier in myself. I'm so grateful for the availability of this kind of content, and for people like you who share their stories. ❤Best wishes to you! : - )
@@qrisstrongmountain780 Yes to focusing on making yourself happy!!! : - ) In general my narc mom expected us to get good grades, but when I started struggling with math in junior high, instead of providing guidance or structure around studying (there was never any) or getting me outside help, she just said, "We're not good at math." We?!? Dyscalculia is REAL and affects 3 to 6% of the population. But it turns out what I wasn't good at is having undiagnosed ADHD and magically knowing that some subjects require extra effort and time. Never underestimate a narc parent's willingness to let you feel less than so they can feel more! I suspect your father knew you were smart in those different ways, but just couldn't be bothered to give you a crumb of acknowledgment, or saw it as a threat because those were things he wasn't great at himself. Regardless, I'm glad you're focusing on YOU now. Best wishes!
Also there's 'Feeling treated as neutral, but the parent doesn't know we are flawed and what would they think'. Sometimes it's not even celebration, just hanging on to neutral.
Bolt of recognition within the first 40 seconds of this video! "You have no interest in my interior world" is something I said to my longtime covert narc ex-friend before I ended things with her. Being treated as invisible and inherently unworthy as a child set me up for bad relationships later in life. So glad to be healing! : - D
What about scapegoats who didn't feel real but refused to give up their internal world and tried to avoid as many interactions with the parent as possible, becoming solipstic, because they knew they would escape someday
I am free. I am invisible on my terms. I did it, let’s hope I stick to it this time round. What will they fill their days with now ? What will they talk about now I’m not allowing them to do the fake we are great parents daily performance ? Oh ! Did I just take away what they need to feed off. I am invisible now. I was always very visible but their needs came first
I'm reading (listening) to your book for the second time. I already know there's going to be a third and fourth time. I highly recommend it to anyone who's been a scapegoat to narcissistic parents. I had a therapist suggest "A Child Called It" to me and that book really traumatized me much more than it helped me but Jay, your book helps a lot. It answers questions I hadn't quite formed such as why I love people I don't like (as the idea of them) and it helps validate my thoughts and patterns I've noticed, making life so much more comfortable for me. Def a must-read and the audible version is great, good narrator.
I relate to all of this so much. But I would caution that in some areas (Florida) it is difficult to find well-trained “safe” therapists. I have had many invalidating therapists here until I happened across someone who moved from out of state. I would caution people to interview any therapist carefully and find out which modalities your insurance will cover.
I used to live in Florida. It was extremely difficult to find a good therapist, one that wouldn't bail on me after 1 - 2 sessions! I recently found an excellent therapist by asking for someone who could help with trauma, particularly childhood trauma. She has me using the Dialectical Workbook, which talks about "radical acceptance." In just 3 weeks, I'm already calmer and happier. Perhaps seeking someone with the same skills will help you, too! Blessings to you!
Even therapists who don't say overtly bad things can do more harm than good. I found it so validating to learn that some survivors of childhood trauma feel WORSE seeing "blank slate" therapists who are trained not to react or give feedback. It makes total sense that spilling my guts to people who replicated the lack of expression, empathy, and guidance I experienced in my emotionally neglectful childhood made me feel triggered and *more* broken! It's bananas to me that therapists invest all those years getting an education and experience with clients then don't *share* their knowledge with clients. I'm not telepathic! Some things that have turbocharged my healing withOUT seeing a therapist in real life: - Videos like this from Jay and other therapists who understand narcissistic abuse and family systems (Jay, Patrick Teahan, Dr. Ingrid Clayton, Dr. Ramani, Darren F Magee, Les Carter...) - Pete Walker's great book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving - Homecoming by John Bradshaw on reparenting your inner child (also Patrick Teahan's inner child work role plays with his mentor Amanda Curtin) - The Gottman Institute's great website with articles about how to have a HEALTHY relationship - Ellen Hendriksen's wonderful book How to Be Yourself: Quiet Your Inner Critic and Rise Above Social Anxiety - Googling ways to regulate the nervous system after childhood [or any] trauma and trying some out (walking in nature, tai chi, singing, dancing... : - ) - Building general psychological resilience with the life-changing concepts of CBT or DBT (even without doing the exercises consistently ; - ) a. Lists of common cognitive distortions b. The MAGIC that if thoughts lead to feelings, addressing the thoughts can sometimes (not always) help with the feelings! Amazing! - Realizing that I was brainwashed that I'm not ALLOWED to validate my own feelings, thoughts, and worth and being so enraged by the sneaky cruelty of that LIE that I vowed to validate the heck out of myself! - Giving myself permission to feel my feelings fully and using a feelings chart to identify nuances of emotion - Embracing the wisdom of "shadow" emotions like anger, resentment, and envy (Very helpful for illuminating boundary violations, needs, wants, etc.!) - Journalling my thoughts and feelings - Practicing healthy boundaries (the things WE do to honor our needs and wants, regardless of what they do) and cutting some people off even when it was hard - Giving myself the chance for "corrective experiences" with *safe* people (half-safe people aren't safe) - Being a compassionate and appreciative friend to myself--including in my self-talk - Learning my love languages and lavishing mySELF instead of waiting for someone else : - ) I wish I'd known as a kid that it was possible to feel so much better and that there was a faster path for getting there! Godspeed to everyone on this journey!
It's almost impossible in South Dakota. Ok it is impossible. I am 63 and I was retraumatized by several. None of them would even let me talk about my childhood until the last 2 and one went way too fast and the other was like a blank slate that was mentioned . I am very grateful to Jay and to some others therapists I have found online.
The whole next lifetime, unfortunately. Still feeling disconnected from your own self and like there is one you that is nice with people and another one that just hates it all and feels it's all fake from oneself even. (
One of the best concepts you mention is "triangulatiion.". It explains the state of my family as a whole. Us three kids were triangulated into three different roles, like being cast in a movie. My brother rarely talks to me (the nonexistent child), my sister (the quiet one) still thinks she has to save me, but, at the same time is mad at me because she thinks I was his favourite, and I am understanding just how destructive the expectations of being cast as the "special" child can be. None of it is about our real selves; it's all about my father who passed in 2009. There is tragedy in my father's greater family as the result of this abuse and when I am with them I can see its outcomes; but no-on talks about it. They are great people and I love them, but I may never mention what I have learned. It only can be of value if they can hear some of it. Thank you Jay.
5:30 - I’ve struggled for some time as to why have always seemed to know (about the work, interests, etc. of) family member(s), so much so as to have engaged in robust and sometimes lengthy conversation re; same - yet, when attempting to share my own - there’s been little to no interest or remembrance reciprocated. I’m learning to understand that attempts to communicate my experiences and/or interests, wants and needs (feels painfully selfish to even write that, still…) will continue to be met with disinterest and distraction, if not turned into a zero sum or losing “game”, and that I mustn’t take personally. As of late, it’s been easier to go back to way was raised and simply, not say anything. Thank you Jay for sharing (such timely?!) content with examples, insight and clarity : )
Just discovered your channel and have been binge watching! Thank you. In another video, you mentioned the "3 fingers pointing back at you" problem. This is another problem that abuse survivors have: if you talk about the abuse, you are being disloyal to your parent and I can remember feeling very guilty telling my friends the awful things my mother did to me (eg frequent sudden slaps across my face with the comment "you are so ugly I loathe you" when I was a small child). This shame at talking about your experiences further isolates the abused child, instills more guilt into them, and of course keeps the abuser safe from public scrutiny. Very shameful to wash your dirty linen in public, as my mother told me, if she found out I'd talked about her to my friends. A beating would follow. So now I will adopt the full hand point as you showed in your previous video!
Hi Jay, I’m the middle boy of 3 brothers and no sisters. My father and older brother were narcissists. I feel that my birth order with no sisters is a worst case scenario. No sisters to offset the balance and the two older men in my life both tyrants is devastating to my sense of well being. My younger brother I feel was the Mascot which has many of the same characteristics as the Golden Child. Every time I read or study another’s experiences I feel that mine is ten times worse.
Thank you once again, Jay, for giving an example of the favored kid in a dysfunctional family, like “Jessica”. I have known many who seemed like her, always seeming so perfect in every way and favored by everyone, but who knows if they had something odd under the surface like “Jessica”. It gives me something to consider. As for feeling invisible,it could explain exhibitionism and other attention seeking behavior in ourselves and others. It’s not a bad thing to seek attention, and in fact is quite natural, even if others try to scorn someone about wanting attention, because for those of us with cats or dogs, we can see how they instinctively seek our attention, not just to get food and water, or for a dog to get walked, but for our companionship and affection. However, some celebrities can be obnoxious in the ways they seek attention, with crass publicity stunts and anything to stay relevant in the public eye.
Thank you 😊 What a blessing this knowledge has made in my life. Found you in just the last few days. 😀 Wisdom & understanding cannot be beat, especially in a world of abuse.
Thank you very much for this! 3 lessons : 1/ accept that I wasn’t my fault/ responsibility 2/ put DISTANCE with those people 3/ go find healthy & positive people && assume the hidden/ ashamed/ hurt part of you (child trauma )
My dad keeps changing how he behaved. First he somewhat admits to what took place, then he blames someone else when blaming no longer works. Now, im at the stage of well, he simply just doesnt remember anything that happened. I took offense to this because it translated to me as, well, whatever happened is me making it a bigger deal than it was or that it was so irrelevant to him that it wasn't a big deal so im irrelevant for whatever he did. Im coming to terms that avoiding him is better because he keeps trying to put me into this 15 year old version of myself. And the rest of the family has a collective mind so they all validate their toxic behavior. I felt guilty that I was avoiding him. One uncle is religious so they confirm that I must respect them no matter what although I am 31 now. I reminded them of Laban and Jacob. But i always feel like im reaching even when I point a relevent objection suddenly the argument point is no longer relevant or a big deal.
Thrown under the bus by my mother… 😢 the gaslighting of this is persistant. I wonder how you would explain dissociation as a part of the picture, as a part of the abuser‘s own survival strategy. I find it so difficult to see my mother‘s need to cling to her view of the world (coping with her trauma with strategies clearly at my expense) relative to my traumatic experiences, the neglect and projection from her, which I had to cope with. Guess I am not ready to forgive. … Thank you for your videos anyways. They help me a lot in understanding.
Is there a rule that says that you must be ready to forgive? If someone does you wrong and never apologizes and even worse, denies any wrongdoing, and at best shows more dismissal with the “I’m sorry you feel that way “ non-apology, and doesn’t even care to try to make anything right, then IMO, we can feel free to let ourselves off the hook for not being ready to forgive. Some things can in fact be unforgivable.
Dear Jay Reid, I’m going through emotional, physically, verbal and mental abuse from narcissistic parents. My mothers toxic extremely boyfriend would threaten to take away my belongings hostage, both of them would open my room doors while locked like a burglary, then I’d get cornered or slapped for telling my feelings I’ve been told that everything is “bad or crap talking”, my mother would call me names such as; “homewrecker” “selfish” “pathetic” because of her boyfriend and so along with those lines she has been neglecting my feelings for over a year because I’m getting older she will not acknowledge any hurtful pain that has been caused to me from her partner or her. My mother thinks it’s babying to give me any sort of emotion support and she has stopped all kinds of emotion support towards me
i appreciate your content so much, Jay. yet i often don’t relate well to your examples. could you try some examples where kids are not liked either at home or at school (my experience)? in other words, they’re NOT good athletes and they DON’T get validation from child peers that contradicts their home/scapegoat experience. and maybe some examples where they are accused by NPDs of supposed offenses that are more serious than having poor manners? for example, maybe a parent accuses a child of being sexually seductive (not my experience but at a similar level of severity)
I hear you. I know what it’s like to be ostracized at the childhood home, school, the neighborhood, the workplace, etc. I can only guess that some examples are of those who are successful in their careers is because therapy usually doesn’t grow on trees, so someone who’s successful in their career has more resources to obtain psychotherapy than those who have had failures in finding and keeping a job. Again, just a guess.
@@diatribe5 yes, and Jay might want to avoid examples that are triggering? but i feel like there’s a way to stay within the bounds of what’s appropriate for the internets and still show a broader range of scapegoat experience
@@christieorr5152 I suspect part of the reason Jay uses more subtle examples is that it's so common for people to self-gaslight and feel ashamed due to internalized messages like "it wasn't that bad" or "other people had it worse." Validating that death by a thousand small cuts IS harmful (even in the presence of some success or recognition outside the home) helps counteract that lie. I agree though, that healing requires addressing that sometimes the ways "caregivers" mess us up make it harder to have corrective experiences that would show us how wrong they were. Such a vile and sneaky Catch-22! It's hard to find out you're good at X or Y and that others think you're interesting, kind, funny or whatever if you learned from your family to never try new things or open your mouth! Jay touches on this in some videos, but for me the the OG of acknowledging how bad the Catch-22 can really be was Pete Walker in his classic book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving. Patrick Teahan also gets it, and I appreciate the way he and Ingrid Clayton sometimes make *funny* content (especially their shorts). I'm so grateful for therapists like Jay and others making content like this available online because it has truly supercharged my healing! 🤩
Thank you so much for your videos. They have beens such a wonderful supplement to my regular therapy. They give me something to think about in between sessions, sometimes putting a name to feelings I couldn't articulate and sometimes just making me feel not alone, or that I'm on the right track. Many thanks!
From the bottoms of my heart , thank you Doc , your doing those videos with full heart, i never went to therapy but still you helped me a lot , cause understanding the problem is the first step to recovery. A scapegoat from North Africa
Hi from norway, I just want to thank you for your videos. I grew up being the scapegoat and have struggled in adult life cutting contact with parents. I got diagnoesed with anxious avoidant personality disorder and thyroid deasese from stress from living with my parents. In your videos you talk in a way that feels safe and is very understandable. I think you put things a good perspective for us who needs to heal, rather than make the narcissist seem scary. it feels like there is hope for getting better. This is really really helpful, thank you so much. I read your ebook too. Take care.
Just was thinking about you, havent seen you post and i miss your wise and kind words! Take care of yourself, these tough days that at times we must give ALL up to our Creator WHO does give HIS PEACE with a call, as HE knows us down to our thoughts! Peace to you!
You really change lives with all the work that you do for us Dr. Reid we will be forever indebted to you & always send you very positive energy & gratitude. My whole family has criminal records & lost custody for child abuse & battery, & friendships with pedophiles with criminal records & they all detested & mocked law enforcement, so their narcissism is secondary but I do find many criminals tend to be narcissists. I wonder if you can do a video on criminal narcissists.
Jay, thank you so much for your content. Not only is it highly relatable but you have inspired me to create content on narcissistic abuse as well! this topic. I’m grateful to you for giving me the motivation to do so.
Yes, while my brother has always been seen as perfect, I've always been made to feel that things which went wrong within my family were somehow my fault. My father's infidelity was my fault?! He had to make himself feel less guilty, so I was his virtual punching bag (as was my mother). It's not uncommon for children to feel as though they've caused problems in some way, but for my father to point out flaws that I didn't even know I had, when I'd always had low self esteem, been teased and bullied, been incredibly self conscious etc, is it any wonder that I tried to take my life so many times? His comment on one of those occasions was: "Why do you keep doing this to us?" Selfish bastard! Insult after insult, constant gaslighting and blaming plus complete denial of having any problems of his own. Complete ignorance of who I was and telling me to stop doing things the he always did, eg, slamming doors. He still insults me, but doesn't know, (or acts as though it's something new to him), that I have PTSD & major anxiety problems.
That's EXACTLY how my mom treats my sister. My sister physically assaulted me, she PUNCHED ME IN THE FACE multiple times and did I ever get an apology? Nope. I got court charges, job loss, money loss, and loss of respect for my mother. Luckily, I got a few odd jobs over the years and got a LOT OF nice things, like guitars, an Xbox one, a hamster, a nice yoga mat, a fancy flat screen TV, A GAMECUBE, a labtop, a bicycle, however. I still fight with my mother
Do you think narcissistic abuse is the psychological version of manchausen syndrome by proxy (factitious disorder) ? Especially if the narcissist is in the medical profession itself & know how to manipulate the psychological professionals just like in MSBP(factitious disorder) they know how to manipulate the medical professionals.
This was a great analysis of the dynamics in these situations. The examples were helpful too. Thank you for crystallizing into descriptions and principles what were confusing and painful experiences. Thank you very.
I only found out what narccistic abuse is always blamed myself from a child to a adult in my 50s now I am going through it again with my Granddaughter now 4 years her dad is a narcc my daughter is fighting for her back. She as been reasonable got her life sorted even though she's gone through this abuse. 😢
I'm having trouble getting your free ebook. I tried 2 different emails, checked spam and other folders and nothing. Is there another way that I can get it? Thank you.
Jay can you give us advice of our Granddaughters welfare being with a narcc father and his wife have changed our Granddaughter. Next going to a solicitor involved again about her dad's narcc abuse manipulated behaviour with her mum my daughters child. 😮
Also, the example of “Sandia’s” dad, he may have been a narcissist or not, but often those with workaholism, there may be other issues that make them that way, like financial struggles, or worse, escaping into their work as a way of avoiding problems in other parts of their lives. Much like people who seek escape via daydreaming, retail therapy (shopaholism), gambling, drugs, drinking, etc.
I like your content. That being said, I am offering a criticism which is about aesthetics. Every thumbnail for your Shorts is one of you with your mouth open. Please stop posting pictures of you with your mouth agape, it is an unfortunate stomach turner to see someone's mouth open constantly. Thank you.
why does the scapegoat align them selves with my parents. basically i am invisible child and brother is unsafe and a scapegoat and almost every single time sides with the parents. when i am just fucking pissed about it. like wtf are u doing?
You're right, this is what went wrong in my childhood. It all came to a head when at 49 I tried to communicate something important to my mother (about the way she casually labelled me sensitive and emotional) she just would. not. hear. it. I was given the silent treatment. She was so wounded. My dad reprimanded me for hurting her. I've gone through hell the last 3 years, she will not acknowledge that she did anything wrong and in fact, has just continued to shame, blame, smear and exclude me. The ONLY way back in to the family is to apologise to her so I will ''live in defiance'' of her, merely by standing firm in my own interpretation of events. That's it. That's all I've done. But I'm persona non grata to the entire family. In the same way that she labelled me sensitive because she didn't have the empathy to sympathise with me when I was growing up, now, she doesn't have the patience to listen to me so therefore I must be ''aggressive''' to have even tried to be heard. I am invisible. She is unreachable. It won't change. It's sad.
Your share could have been mine. It’s heartbreakingly sad to experience that. So sorry.
I avoided looking to my mom for support because I knew she wouldn't be up to the task and I would be saddened. Then when I had kids I understood a mother's role and I was able to see that she was the one who was defective, not me.
Me too. I am now at 60 trying to define who I am. I cling to the hope of Jesus..... Fortunately I am independent. I'm free. Just need to quit looking back at the horror.
I'm so sorry you're going through this, it hurts to face the truth. I'm just a random person, but I'm proud of you for standing your ground and not backing down. It's sad she won't take responsibility and that he's letting her get away with it. It reminds me a lot of my parents, he would always make excuses for her instead of getting professional help for the whole family. She wasn't nice to him either. You deserve people that treat you with respect and cares about you❤
You have a very clear perspective and that means you're free and you can take your life into your own hands. You're not under her spell like the rest of the clan. You're a brave person who won in this battle of the mind and heart.
“For the scapegoat survivor working to recover a loving and respectful relationship with themselves, they must stay in connection with the parts that were invisible to the parent. This means incrementally tolerating feelings of shame, self loathing and despair that used to go along with being visible.” - profound. I’ve had many coping modes to deal with shame - generally avoidance - to defend myself from the shame (intellectualising and avoiding my shameful feelings) which has only helped to hurt me more over time. Rumination, obsessive note taking - I’ve learnt one has to feel the pain of being invisible, invalidated and never having an authentic connection with one’s parent(s) - it’s the only way I hope to heal.
There was so much emotional neglect underlying everything else. I remember trying to get them to pay attention and attune to me, and I always had to attune to them instead. Your videos are really validating bc it feels like I'm being seen and understood. "Oh, someone else gets it, it wasn't just me. It wasn't all in my head."
One of the craziest legacy of an NPD parent / household is that we who grew up there, only later realize that other families don't have this effect that once we close the door of our "homes" things just change. It is an unspoken rule in those households that behind close doors, we are not the shiny cool family we show (lie) to the world. It is a huge weight for a kid. The weight of the lie.
It's a good day when you decide to stop playing along with dirty little secrets of someone else's design that only serve to hurt you. That's their biggest fear-- that other people are going to figure them out. 😮
Very heavy.
The great BIG lie 💔
My few family members have ostracized me so completely, I only found out two weeks ago that my father has died, and my constant torment has ended. I'm sad that they plan to scatter his ashes & I will never know where. But the relief has begun...
At age 17, my self-portrait was a three pointed crack in the road. At age 22, it was a shoebox that was taped shut, but you could hear broken glass when shaken. Now at 61, I have 3 autoimmune disorders, I'm unable to work, and I'm struggling to survive. Yet, with the death of my tormentor, I feel like life is just beginning! No more being ignored or dismissed, being treated like I'm defective.
Gaining distance from your tormentors is NECESSARY & ESSENTIAL for your health and well-being!
Blessings & healing to you all!
I'm 64 and have several autoinmune deseases. I felt relief when my father died. my siblings have ostracized me. You are not alone.
I met an INCREDIBLY AWESOME WOMAN who has autoimmune disorder. She was a social worker for MANY YEARS and now she takes care of animals. I wondered if she had a TRAUMA that was crippling her. She had explained that her brother had died of an accident and she was suffering from survivors guilt from a young age. @@cristinagonzalez6591
Thank you! I did feel alone last year, when I discovered this group. It has helped, knowing that I'm not alone in my struggle. Bless you for replying!
I'm so happy for you! I relate to your experience; my abuser's suicide 4 years ago set me free, and I am now on a healing journey. May we BOTH find peace. BTW, I also have autoimmune disease
Narcissistic abuse is finally being studied as it relates to autoimmune diseases, and it's about time. I think we all have them. ❤
My narc mom has never see me as I am. Im after 40 and still it hurts so bad. She never believes me and never really hear me. Its so awful when in her eyes I can see pure hate when I say something wrong.
I am sick of being her doormate, nobody deserve it .
Dump her. She's been asking for it for years, and it'll be the best thing you ever do for yourself. I know that story all too well, and I don't play the game anymore. ❤
Go no contact while she's still here, will be healing for you.
And btw, She believes you, What a narcissist does, is they pretend not to believe you/this is gaslighting. They pretend not to UNDERSTAND you/gaslighting.
Kick her to the curb, - yesterday.
If she's got you under financial dependence, or you're expecting an inheritance. I hope you'll figure it out and make a plan.
I had to let go… it hurts, a bunch! but the healing process is something crucial to obtain for self-sanity.
I’ve done a lot of work in therapy on my recovery from having a covert narcissistic mother. I learned to see her as a limited person, incapable of being a good parent. What I missed until more recently was her hostility towards me and my brothers, but especially me as the oldest and only girl. Consequently, I have been able to see people’s limitations and the good in them, but often missed their hostility, trusting lovers who didn’t care about me or treat me with respect. I recently broke up with a guy who was very much like my mother. I finally saw his hostility, blinders I really needed to take off. It’s dangerous to be blind about people’s hostility! I’m learning about putting my own needs first, very challenging after neglect. I’m learning not to go into a tailspin if I make a mistake or can’t reach a goal in the timeframe I had in mind.
Before I went no contact, I asked my narcissistic egg donor and experimental question: "What do you know about me after I was 5 years old?"
She glowered at me and responded: "I don't know, you tell me."
I was 23. She was supposed to be my mom. She was supposed to know more about me than most people in the world. But in that moment, I realized that she had always been a stranger to me and always would be. There was nothing of substance that was lost when I went no contact--just my own grief at the fact that I never had real parents in the first place.
It's the same with my parents. The only things they "know" about me are the negative assumptions they've held since I was a child. I would regret having kids also, if I deliberately avoided the best parts of being a parent. It's kind of amazing that they could actively avoid knowing me for 35 years. They never made me feel like an actual person, I never get warm feelings around them, I can't go to them for advice about problems, so going NC with my mom didn't feel like I was missing anything. I miss the parents I never had, but that's it.
Wow my mom responds to me in the exact same passive aggressive way, that’s exactly how she reacts. Wish I had friends irl who can relate
I can relate, though I never asked that question, I know the feeling well. I was reading somewhere, some years ago, that one of the signs of a narcissistic parent is buying strange or unwanted gifts for birthdays, christmas, because they don't who the child is really or what they want. Always found this to be true. Obviously this is one of the less serious experiences, and even when I got older, I saw the funny side a bit as they would give me gifts I didn't want, so I'd end up selling the stuff or giving it away.
But overall, yes, there is a lot of grief.
At the opposite extreme though, I think of examples of parents/children who are extremely close and as beautiful as this is, it seems almost like they could fall apart when they lose that parent. At least I try to take comfort that this won't happen to me, because the grief was more gradual and drawn out over years and is mostly in the past now.
There is a strength we get from somewhere.
When I was mid 30s my mother asked me what color my eyes were.
How could a mother not know the color of her child's eyes? And after all those years?
You are so often describing my experiences like no one else does.
Oof how right you are Mr. Reid 😮💨 being thrown under the bus by one’s own father constantly without ceasing ,sometimes I don’t even know how I made it this far in my mid 30’s without having off’d myself as a kid, everyday was a living hell 😔
I want to tell you something, the STRENGTH you have developed from that TORTURE and NOT off'ing yourself will be what SAVES YOU! I am NOT in any ways giving your abuser credit I just know what you are saying! In todays WORLD it seems like suicide is a THANG (and that SUCKS) but just give yourself credit for your STRENGTH!
You've been refined in the fire
You're stronger than You think You are
Get rid of the death name & death talk
You are more than what You think You are
@@janettemartin4604 thank you for your kinds words, yes I understand and you are right tho I may forget at times or doubt the veracity of it all but it is something my therapist has told me as well, it seems certain things are apparent to others except ourselves like our own virtues. Learning all this that Mr. Reid teaches has been such an eye opener and everything made sense after that.
@@michaelmessenger5742 thank you, I appreciate your words of encouragement and you’re so right being stronger than what I think I am, my therapist has said the same before tho I may forget at times .
@@janettemartin4604 you know it’s strange but lately I keep thinking about one scene in a Hollywood movie called Monsters ball where one of the characters has an abusive dad and so the son always tries to be “enough” in his dads eyes-it never happens and so in the scene he asks his dad something around the lines of “did you ever love me?” If I remember the movie correctly-it’s been a few years since last I saw it ,anyways he then proceeds to turn a gun onto himself and shoot his chest clear thru the recliner. Tragic shocking scene, anyway what I’m getting at is that throughout the whole movie their father son relationship seemed normal to me ,I thought that was normal 😢, and so I was confused as to why that ended up happening and in my personal life I never understood why I always had suicidal ideation up until a few years ago and put two and two together, it all makes sense now. I’m glad I never followed thru🥲
As always, compassionate and informative. Thank you so much.
Another very good video. Exactly. I often have said my purpose in my mother's life was to sit and look interested as she talked endlessly about all her thoughts and feelings. I can't recall a time we actually had a two-way conversation, EVER. Not surprisingly for a narcissist, she also thinks she knows all about what goes on in my head despite never once having listened.
My goal was to be no trouble to mom. She resented being a parent
Avoid visibility to others; that hits hard having wished I was invisible in public. Only bad things came from being noticed at home, so that's what I expected from everyone. Now I can understand why I have had social anxiety my whole life, 54 now, but didn't know then why I was so afraid of all others seeing me and expecting rejection from everyone. I had a new mechanic give me a $saving bid on new head gaskets for my car; highly discounted, and I began to sob on the phone as I thanked him! So embarassing! But I learned to one would ever care about or help me at a young age, and had been used and walked on for decades. Nice people didn't seem to exist for me. Sad what you can learn at "home". 😢
For my parents. I’m like a chess piece. An object that is there that they know how to use. That’s it, that’s all there is to know. You’re like an object that’s just there.
Dr. Reid, just wanted to let you know that we care about you. Your sudden absence makes me wonder what happened. I hope all it well. Peace.
As a child, I had always wondered why my narc mom never heard me, why my problems and requests were so irrelevant to her that they didn't even deserve an answer, a comment...It was painful to feel ignored, invisible, in the end I gave up, and our "conversations" became simple monologues where I felt silenced and lost my voice. Clearly, I thought I was the problem. Fortunately, I found enough information about NPD to understand better the issue but much of my self-esteem and self-love have been damaged. Still working on my healing, though I'm in my sixties.
65 and just went no contact with my 90 year old narcissistic mother.
Great videos, you have really got to the essence of what goes on in these families. My mother was a narcissistic person, I used to joke with my friends that I could win the Nobel Peace Prize but it still wouldn't be good enough and she would find some way to put it down 😂😂
Missing you and your incredibly insightful content, but more than that, hoping that you re doing well and ok!
this is so accurate. at school my teachers used to ask if i was alright or something is happening at home my family are very narcissistss abusing me and i was forced to say im ok and i can never say anything about what happened and i have several traumas and diseases now because of the narcs abuse at work and home im still surviving being the scapegoat and your videos help me understand this abuse jay i never knew there was a word for this abuse and it was only me like my "family" said
" 3) Throwing you under the bus.
A narcissistic parent may also only see negative qualities in a child, and this serves the parent's needs by getting them to feel superior by virtue of being unlike this child, so the parent relocates their sense of worthlessness into this child, then influences the child to identify with those feelings. In order for this to work, the parent and child have to believe consciously that there is nothing good about the child. "
Thank you, this is so enlightening and validates exactly my experience.
I'm in my late 40s now. I had been no contact for 10 years then 5 years ago decided to begin to reconcile. I could forgive, so hoped this would come with time. Not much has changed from her side though. I am nothing but a scapegoat to her, despite seeming to get along on the surface and having conversations that are ok, the mask slips too often.
I don't believe myself to be worthless, and maybe this bothers her. I am not outwardly very successful, did not marry, etc. I am content enough though, but being a narcissist she probably doesn't see this because only outward appearance and social status and 'what other people think' etc matter to them.
Your comment is enlightening because maybe in attempting to have conversations and genuinely trying to get along, I sometimes have shared vulnerabilities (not a lot and not everything, but it's in my nature to share ordinary things, without thinking I'm being judged or categorised). Anyway, a recent gaslighting episode has changed all that anyway and I won't be accepting a phone call from her again. But now I understand why more clearly. She listens to me not in an open way but in a biased way, scanning for 'worthlessness'. She is 73 now, so the reality is, this bias is not going to change. Thanks again for helping me see the situation more clearly.
The feeling superior bit is very true as well. She 'talks down' to me at times though I called her out clearly on a phrase she kept using when saying goodbye, a few months ago, and got upset, she said she would never say it again, but then just continued saying it the next conversation. I really feel like she doesn't wish me well, and even would like something bad to happen to me. I am a strong enough person, and been through a lot, but to preserve and protect myself I have to seriously distance from her now. (I am already doing this before watching your video, but this part really helps me to see things more clearly)
I’m in the same situation. 56 years of hoping to be seen. I’m slowly processing the knowledge that I never will be. She’s 82 and incapable of change. So onwards I march through this journey. I hope you’re doing well 😊
You’re absolutely the most intuitive, caring human. Thank you ❤
You are so welcome
Thank You Dr. Reid! So Sad yet @ the same time so Glad to know there’s help to instil Hope. God Bless ✨❤️✨!
You mentioned an example of someone who felt like harming herself after being invisible for so long. I imagine this can lead to much self-sabotage and maybe even masochism?
Your talks are so hard hitting and realistic and they take me back to my childhood wounds. It' a strange coincidence, but I'm in a book group that is reading Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man".
I may see the book quite differently after hearing your amazingly insightful podcast. Thanks for the recognition and help to understand my family dynamics and some complicated feelings I've had for too many years better. We're not at all invisible to you. You see inside of us. It's healing to be seen.
Something that i am beginning to see as i heal is how our inner landscape is shaped by those who can see us and acknowkedge our needs.
For anyone else wjo has difficulty honoring their own needs, if a parent didnt acknowledge or recognize our neefs thrn sometimes its like a screen we dont have in our system, since we learn to take other proples needs and make them our own... Ive been working on this for awhile, and noticing how my needs evaporate when im near my narcissistic parent. It takes tiime, not tp heal but to form enough of an inner self with needs and boundaries... I always wondered why i had no boundaries? How can you have boundaties without that inner landscape/ inner self? It all kinda goes together, dont you think?
Thank you for your videos! They always help me to feel sane again! 💕
i was invisible for my father. He would not talk to me or even look at me. I only could keep his attention talking about politics or philosophy. The other subject that kept the attention of my father was history. I studied History at Uni. But my father still was not paying attention.He won't call me by my name and wouldn't talk on history with me. It was like I had disappeared. For the rest of my life I couldn't talk with my father except for certain courtesy I felt like a ghost. It was sad.
Absolutely the same, only interested in politics and history conversations. In my case I did a PhD and two post docs from Ivy Leagues to gain my father’s respect. Only to be told by my father last Sunday that my husband (a film technician) was more intelligent and my sister more successful. We can’t win this. Best we save the rest of our lives. Good luck for your recovery ❤️🩹
With my father, it was mathematics and science. I felt like I had math dyslexia, I struggled so hard to overcome, but could never reach his level of brilliance in those areas. So I got shut out early on, due to my lack of gifts in his favorite areas. On the other hand, I consider myself very smart in other skills. It's sad that many of my last conversations with him were, " I'm smart, just in different ways."
I still wanted him to "see me."
Now that my father has just passed on, I'm going to focus on trying to make myself happy!
1000 pro the same. I can unerstamd you all here. You can merely talk with him about normal "lame" day to day stuff, he is pnpy interested in disscussions about politics, history an conspiracy theories. And how I could forget it- of course u cannot have any other opion on any topic, bc than u get silent treatet.😂😂
@cristinagonzalez6591 @sunalini13 The Silent Treatment is abuse. < : - ( I'm so sorry you experienced that. It's so confusing and disturbing that the boost narcissists get from a child's shared interests or accomplishments can change to intolerable ego threat in a blink of an eye. More evidence that authentic connection and building their child's strengths and self-esteem was never their interest, only seeing themselves reflected at twice their natural size. : - (
It has supercharged my healing to immerse myself in content from Jay and other narcissism savvy therapists like Dr. Ramani, Les Carter, Patrick Teahan, and Dr. Ingrid Clayton (Teahan and Clayton are occasionally *funny,* which is an extra bonus! ; - ). Also, learning about Childhood Emotional Neglect, and the books Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker and John Bradshaw's classic Homecoming on inner child work (transformative!).
After so many years feeling uniquely flawed and alone for having such a dysfunctional family, it's such a blessing to finally feel happier and easier in myself. I'm so grateful for the availability of this kind of content, and for people like you who share their stories. ❤Best wishes to you! : - )
@@qrisstrongmountain780 Yes to focusing on making yourself happy!!! : - ) In general my narc mom expected us to get good grades, but when I started struggling with math in junior high, instead of providing guidance or structure around studying (there was never any) or getting me outside help, she just said, "We're not good at math." We?!?
Dyscalculia is REAL and affects 3 to 6% of the population. But it turns out what I wasn't good at is having undiagnosed ADHD and magically knowing that some subjects require extra effort and time.
Never underestimate a narc parent's willingness to let you feel less than so they can feel more!
I suspect your father knew you were smart in those different ways, but just couldn't be bothered to give you a crumb of acknowledgment, or saw it as a threat because those were things he wasn't great at himself.
Regardless, I'm glad you're focusing on YOU now. Best wishes!
Also there's 'Feeling treated as neutral, but the parent doesn't know we are flawed and what would they think'. Sometimes it's not even celebration, just hanging on to neutral.
Bolt of recognition within the first 40 seconds of this video! "You have no interest in my interior world" is something I said to my longtime covert narc ex-friend before I ended things with her. Being treated as invisible and inherently unworthy as a child set me up for bad relationships later in life. So glad to be healing! : - D
I wrote a poem to my BFF from High School titled, "You are the only one allowed to cry"!
@@janettemartin4604 Props for having the insight and assertiveness to call that out at such a young age!
What about scapegoats who didn't feel real but refused to give up their internal world and tried to avoid as many interactions with the parent as possible, becoming solipstic, because they knew they would escape someday
I am free. I am invisible on my terms. I did it, let’s hope I stick to it this time round. What will they fill their days with now ? What will they talk about now I’m not allowing them to do the fake we are great parents daily performance ? Oh ! Did I just take away what they need to feed off. I am invisible now. I was always very visible but their needs came first
I'm reading (listening) to your book for the second time. I already know there's going to be a third and fourth time. I highly recommend it to anyone who's been a scapegoat to narcissistic parents. I had a therapist suggest "A Child Called It" to me and that book really traumatized me much more than it helped me but Jay, your book helps a lot. It answers questions I hadn't quite formed such as why I love people I don't like (as the idea of them) and it helps validate my thoughts and patterns I've noticed, making life so much more comfortable for me. Def a must-read and the audible version is great, good narrator.
I relate to all of this so much. But I would caution that in some areas (Florida) it is difficult to find well-trained “safe” therapists. I have had many invalidating therapists here until I happened across someone who moved from out of state. I would caution people to interview any therapist carefully and find out which modalities your insurance will cover.
I used to live in Florida. It was extremely difficult to find a good therapist, one that wouldn't bail on me after 1 - 2 sessions!
I recently found an excellent therapist by asking for someone who could help with trauma, particularly childhood trauma. She has me using the Dialectical Workbook, which talks about "radical acceptance." In just 3 weeks, I'm already calmer and happier. Perhaps seeking someone with the same skills will help you, too! Blessings to you!
Even therapists who don't say overtly bad things can do more harm than good. I found it so validating to learn that some survivors of childhood trauma feel WORSE seeing "blank slate" therapists who are trained not to react or give feedback. It makes total sense that spilling my guts to people who replicated the lack of expression, empathy, and guidance I experienced in my emotionally neglectful childhood made me feel triggered and *more* broken!
It's bananas to me that therapists invest all those years getting an education and experience with clients then don't *share* their knowledge with clients. I'm not telepathic!
Some things that have turbocharged my healing withOUT seeing a therapist in real life:
- Videos like this from Jay and other therapists who understand narcissistic abuse and family systems (Jay, Patrick Teahan, Dr. Ingrid Clayton, Dr. Ramani, Darren F Magee, Les Carter...)
- Pete Walker's great book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving
- Homecoming by John Bradshaw on reparenting your inner child
(also Patrick Teahan's inner child work role plays with his mentor Amanda Curtin)
- The Gottman Institute's great website with articles about how to have a HEALTHY relationship
- Ellen Hendriksen's wonderful book How to Be Yourself: Quiet Your Inner Critic and Rise Above Social Anxiety
- Googling ways to regulate the nervous system after childhood [or any] trauma and trying some out
(walking in nature, tai chi, singing, dancing... : - )
- Building general psychological resilience with the life-changing concepts of CBT or DBT (even without doing the exercises consistently ; - )
a. Lists of common cognitive distortions
b. The MAGIC that if thoughts lead to feelings, addressing the thoughts can sometimes (not always) help with the feelings! Amazing!
- Realizing that I was brainwashed that I'm not ALLOWED to validate my own feelings, thoughts, and worth and being so enraged by the sneaky cruelty of that LIE that I vowed to validate the heck out of myself!
- Giving myself permission to feel my feelings fully and using a feelings chart to identify nuances of emotion
- Embracing the wisdom of "shadow" emotions like anger, resentment, and envy
(Very helpful for illuminating boundary violations, needs, wants, etc.!)
- Journalling my thoughts and feelings
- Practicing healthy boundaries (the things WE do to honor our needs and wants, regardless of what they do) and cutting some people off even when it was hard
- Giving myself the chance for "corrective experiences" with *safe* people (half-safe people aren't safe)
- Being a compassionate and appreciative friend to myself--including in my self-talk
- Learning my love languages and lavishing mySELF instead of waiting for someone else : - )
I wish I'd known as a kid that it was possible to feel so much better and that there was a faster path for getting there! Godspeed to everyone on this journey!
Thank you! Very helpful statement.
@@bellaluce7088Wow! Thanks for the terrific list!
It's almost impossible in South Dakota. Ok it is impossible. I am 63 and I was retraumatized by several. None of them would even let me talk about my childhood until the last 2 and one went way too fast and the other was like a blank slate that was mentioned . I am very grateful to Jay and to some others therapists I have found online.
It is NOT SAFE to be visible!
Y E S
The whole next lifetime, unfortunately. Still feeling disconnected from your own self and like there is one you that is nice with people and another one that just hates it all and feels it's all fake from oneself even. (
One of the best concepts you mention is "triangulatiion.". It explains the state of my family as a whole. Us three kids were triangulated into three different roles, like being cast in a movie. My brother rarely talks to me (the nonexistent child), my sister (the quiet one) still thinks she has to save me, but, at the same time is mad at me because she thinks I was his favourite, and I am understanding just how destructive the expectations of being cast as the "special" child can be. None of it is about our real selves; it's all about my father who passed in 2009. There is tragedy in my father's greater family as the result of this abuse and when I am with them I can see its outcomes; but no-on talks about it. They are great people and I love them, but I may never mention what I have learned. It only can be of value if they can hear some of it. Thank you Jay.
This video rings the bell big time !!! 11:26
5:30 - I’ve struggled for some time as to why have always seemed to know (about the work, interests, etc. of) family member(s), so much so as to have engaged in robust and sometimes lengthy conversation re; same - yet, when attempting to share my own - there’s been little to no interest or remembrance reciprocated. I’m learning to understand that attempts to communicate my experiences and/or interests, wants and needs (feels painfully selfish to even write that, still…) will continue to be met with disinterest and distraction, if not turned into a zero sum or losing “game”, and that I mustn’t take personally. As of late, it’s been easier to go back to way was raised and simply, not say anything. Thank you Jay for sharing (such timely?!) content with examples, insight and clarity : )
If only there was a way to find or discover the safe people Jay talks about. Those that would welcome a mutual relationship and are happy to know us.
Jay, you and a guy named Harris Harrington, I owe you my life.
Thank you!!
Just discovered your channel and have been binge watching! Thank you. In another video, you mentioned the "3 fingers pointing back at you" problem. This is another problem that abuse survivors have: if you talk about the abuse, you are being disloyal to your parent and I can remember feeling very guilty telling my friends the awful things my mother did to me (eg frequent sudden slaps across my face with the comment "you are so ugly I loathe you" when I was a small child). This shame at talking about your experiences further isolates the abused child, instills more guilt into them, and of course keeps the abuser safe from public scrutiny. Very shameful to wash your dirty linen in public, as my mother told me, if she found out I'd talked about her to my friends. A beating would follow. So now I will adopt the full hand point as you showed in your previous video!
echo --- please invest in sound treatment (sound absorption materials) on the wall
Been following you for years, love your work. And thank you for using an Indian female (name/person) in your example. Means a lot 🙏🏾❤️
Thanks too!
Hi Jay, I’m the middle boy of 3 brothers and no sisters. My father and older brother were narcissists. I feel that my birth order with no sisters is a worst case scenario. No sisters to offset the balance and the two older men in my life both tyrants is devastating to my sense of well being. My younger brother I feel was the Mascot which has many of the same characteristics as the Golden Child. Every time I read or study another’s experiences I feel that mine is ten times worse.
I just finished chapter 5 of your book and it's amazing.
Thank you so much.
Thank you once again, Jay, for giving an example of the favored kid in a dysfunctional family, like “Jessica”. I have known many who seemed like her, always seeming so perfect in every way and favored by everyone, but who knows if they had something odd under the surface like “Jessica”. It gives me something to consider.
As for feeling invisible,it could explain exhibitionism and other attention seeking behavior in ourselves and others. It’s not a bad thing to seek attention, and in fact is quite natural, even if others try to scorn someone about wanting attention, because for those of us with cats or dogs, we can see how they instinctively seek our attention, not just to get food and water, or for a dog to get walked, but for our companionship and affection.
However, some celebrities can be obnoxious in the ways they seek attention, with crass publicity stunts and anything to stay relevant in the public eye.
Thank the heavens and the universe for Jay Reid 🎉💖⭐️
Thank you 😊
What a blessing this knowledge has made in my life. Found you in just the last few days. 😀
Wisdom & understanding cannot be beat, especially in a world of abuse.
Thank you Jay, bless you. It’s been a lifetime of struggle, this helps and is appreciated.
Thank you very much for this!
3 lessons :
1/ accept that I wasn’t my fault/ responsibility
2/ put DISTANCE with those people
3/ go find healthy & positive people && assume the hidden/ ashamed/ hurt part of you (child trauma )
You are more than what You think You are
Please talk about those of us who find ourselves falling for a narcissist after growing up as a scapegoat
Thank you for this 🙏
I see your eye ? !!!
Top man J x
My dad keeps changing how he behaved. First he somewhat admits to what took place, then he blames someone else when blaming no longer works. Now, im at the stage of well, he simply just doesnt remember anything that happened. I took offense to this because it translated to me as, well, whatever happened is me making it a bigger deal than it was or that it was so irrelevant to him that it wasn't a big deal so im irrelevant for whatever he did. Im coming to terms that avoiding him is better because he keeps trying to put me into this 15 year old version of myself. And the rest of the family has a collective mind so they all validate their toxic behavior. I felt guilty that I was avoiding him. One uncle is religious so they confirm that I must respect them no matter what although I am 31 now. I reminded them of Laban and Jacob. But i always feel like im reaching even when I point a relevent objection suddenly the argument point is no longer relevant or a big deal.
Thrown under the bus by my mother… 😢 the gaslighting of this is persistant. I wonder how you would explain dissociation as a part of the picture, as a part of the abuser‘s own survival strategy. I find it so difficult to see my mother‘s need to cling to her view of the world (coping with her trauma with strategies clearly at my expense) relative to my traumatic experiences, the neglect and projection from her, which I had to cope with. Guess I am not ready to forgive. … Thank you for your videos anyways. They help me a lot in understanding.
Is there a rule that says that you must be ready to forgive? If someone does you wrong and never apologizes and even worse, denies any wrongdoing, and at best shows more dismissal with the “I’m sorry you feel that way “ non-apology, and doesn’t even care to try to make anything right, then IMO, we can feel free to let ourselves off the hook for not being ready to forgive. Some things can in fact be unforgivable.
Truly painful.
are you okay why the black eye?
Excellent video. Thank you!
I found Validation, Understanding, a sense of Hope and Safety.
I hope you are safe my friend. Bullies!
Dear Jay Reid, I’m going through emotional, physically, verbal and mental abuse from narcissistic parents.
My mothers toxic extremely boyfriend would threaten to take away my belongings hostage, both of them would open my room doors while locked like a burglary, then I’d get cornered or slapped for telling my feelings
I’ve been told that everything is “bad or crap talking”, my mother would call me names such as; “homewrecker” “selfish” “pathetic” because of her boyfriend and so along with those lines she has been neglecting my feelings for over a year because I’m getting older she will not acknowledge any hurtful pain that has been caused to me from her partner or her.
My mother thinks it’s babying to give me any sort of emotion support and she has stopped all kinds of emotion support towards me
i appreciate your content so much, Jay. yet i often don’t relate well to your examples. could you try some examples where kids are not liked either at home or at school (my experience)? in other words, they’re NOT good athletes and they DON’T get validation from child peers that contradicts their home/scapegoat experience. and maybe some examples where they are accused by NPDs of supposed offenses that are more serious than having poor manners? for example, maybe a parent accuses a child of being sexually seductive (not my experience but at a similar level of severity)
I hear you. I know what it’s like to be ostracized at the childhood home, school, the neighborhood, the workplace, etc.
I can only guess that some examples are of those who are successful in their careers is because therapy usually doesn’t grow on trees, so someone who’s successful in their career has more resources to obtain psychotherapy than those who have had failures in finding and keeping a job. Again, just a guess.
@@diatribe5 yes, and Jay might want to avoid examples that are triggering? but i feel like there’s a way to stay within the bounds of what’s appropriate for the internets and still show a broader range of scapegoat experience
@@christieorr5152 I suspect part of the reason Jay uses more subtle examples is that it's so common for people to self-gaslight and feel ashamed due to internalized messages like "it wasn't that bad" or "other people had it worse." Validating that death by a thousand small cuts IS harmful (even in the presence of some success or recognition outside the home) helps counteract that lie.
I agree though, that healing requires addressing that sometimes the ways "caregivers" mess us up make it harder to have corrective experiences that would show us how wrong they were. Such a vile and sneaky Catch-22! It's hard to find out you're good at X or Y and that others think you're interesting, kind, funny or whatever if you learned from your family to never try new things or open your mouth!
Jay touches on this in some videos, but for me the the OG of acknowledging how bad the Catch-22 can really be was Pete Walker in his classic book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving. Patrick Teahan also gets it, and I appreciate the way he and Ingrid Clayton sometimes make *funny* content (especially their shorts).
I'm so grateful for therapists like Jay and others making content like this available online because it has truly supercharged my healing! 🤩
The scapegoating family and narcissist will never give up their narrative. Take my advice and get out before they get old or you'll be sorry.
You nailed it for my childhood
One day we will be fully redeemed ❤
Thank you so much for your videos. They have beens such a wonderful supplement to my regular therapy. They give me something to think about in between sessions, sometimes putting a name to feelings I couldn't articulate and sometimes just making me feel not alone, or that I'm on the right track. Many thanks!
From the bottoms of my heart , thank you Doc , your doing those videos with full heart, i never went to therapy but still you helped me a lot , cause understanding the problem is the first step to recovery. A scapegoat from North Africa
Hi from norway, I just want to thank you for your videos. I grew up being the scapegoat and have struggled in adult life cutting contact with parents. I got diagnoesed with anxious avoidant personality disorder and thyroid deasese from stress from living with my parents. In your videos you talk in a way that feels safe and is very understandable. I think you put things a good perspective for us who needs to heal, rather than make the narcissist seem scary. it feels like there is hope for getting better. This is really really helpful, thank you so much. I read your ebook too. Take care.
Just was thinking about you, havent seen you post and i miss your wise and kind words! Take care of yourself, these tough days that at times we must give ALL up to our Creator WHO does give HIS PEACE with a call, as HE knows us down to our thoughts! Peace to you!
Wow, I know what is really excellent in your videos: the examples you explain. Thank you Jay, you are very useful. ❤
Glad you think so!
Thanks
You really change lives with all the work that you do for us Dr. Reid we will be forever indebted to you & always send you very positive energy & gratitude. My whole family has criminal records & lost custody for child abuse & battery, & friendships with pedophiles with criminal records & they all detested & mocked law enforcement, so their narcissism is secondary but I do find many criminals tend to be narcissists. I wonder if you can do a video on criminal narcissists.
These videos are so helpful. ❤ thank you!
Jay, thank you so much for your content. Not only is it highly relatable but you have inspired me to create content on narcissistic abuse as well! this topic. I’m grateful to you for giving me the motivation to do so.
He was Emotionally Unavailable all my Life,😏🚩🏃♀️
Yes, while my brother has always been seen as perfect, I've always been made to feel that things which went wrong within my family were somehow my fault. My father's infidelity was my fault?! He had to make himself feel less guilty, so I was his virtual punching bag (as was my mother). It's not uncommon for children to feel as though they've caused problems in some way, but for my father to point out flaws that I didn't even know I had, when I'd always had low self esteem, been teased and bullied, been incredibly self conscious etc, is it any wonder that I tried to take my life so many times? His comment on one of those occasions was:
"Why do you keep doing this to us?" Selfish bastard!
Insult after insult, constant gaslighting and blaming plus complete denial of having any problems of his own.
Complete ignorance of who I was and telling me to stop doing things the he always did, eg, slamming doors.
He still insults me, but doesn't know, (or acts as though it's something new to him), that I have PTSD & major anxiety problems.
That's EXACTLY how my mom treats my sister. My sister physically assaulted me, she PUNCHED ME IN THE FACE multiple times and did I ever get an apology? Nope. I got court charges, job loss, money loss, and loss of respect for my mother. Luckily, I got a few odd jobs over the years and got a LOT OF nice things, like guitars, an Xbox one, a hamster, a nice yoga mat, a fancy flat screen TV, A GAMECUBE, a labtop, a bicycle, however. I still fight with my mother
Do you think narcissistic abuse is the psychological version of manchausen syndrome by proxy (factitious disorder) ? Especially if the narcissist is in the medical profession itself & know how to manipulate the psychological professionals just like in MSBP(factitious disorder) they know how to manipulate the medical professionals.
This was a great analysis of the dynamics in these situations. The examples were helpful too. Thank you for crystallizing into descriptions and principles what were confusing and painful experiences. Thank you very.
I only found out what narccistic abuse is always blamed myself from a child to a adult in my 50s now I am going through it again with my Granddaughter now 4 years her dad is a narcc my daughter is fighting for her back. She as been reasonable got her life sorted even though she's gone through this abuse. 😢
I wrote a song called ghost about my relationship with my mother
😥
I'm having trouble getting your free ebook. I tried 2 different emails, checked spam and other folders and nothing. Is there another way that I can get it? Thank you.
"By treating children as who they are not"
Jay can you give us advice of our Granddaughters welfare being with a narcc father and his wife have changed our Granddaughter. Next going to a solicitor involved again about her dad's narcc abuse manipulated behaviour with her mum my daughters child. 😮
Define safe
Hello Jay, this is a month already, i have been waiting for the new "video every friday" for these weeks >_<
Hope you're doing okay!!
Working on it!
Hope you are okay? You haven’t posted in a while? Missing you
Could you talk about being ganged up on by the parent and sisters.
This is too painful
i hope your eye is ok. bar fight??? just kidding.
😁
Mark 1:15 💌 …“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”💌🌼
Also, the example of “Sandia’s” dad, he may have been a narcissist or not, but often those with workaholism, there may be other issues that make them that way, like financial struggles, or worse, escaping into their work as a way of avoiding problems in other parts of their lives. Much like people who seek escape via daydreaming, retail therapy (shopaholism), gambling, drugs, drinking, etc.
I like your content. That being said, I am offering a criticism which is about aesthetics. Every thumbnail for your Shorts is one of you with your mouth open.
Please stop posting pictures of you with your mouth agape, it is an unfortunate stomach turner to see someone's mouth open constantly. Thank you.
Could you make a video on negative introjects
why does the scapegoat align them selves with my parents. basically i am invisible child and brother is unsafe and a scapegoat and almost every single time sides with the parents. when i am just fucking pissed about it. like wtf are u doing?
Thank you so much.