Trans Ideology is a Restriction of Freedom, Not an Expansion of It, w/ Heather Heying | EPISODE 163
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Evolutionary biology, gender dynamics, societal norms, chemicals, technology…there is no denying the intricate interplay between biological, psychological, technological and cultural factors in shaping human behavior and identity. Sasha and Stella welcome guest, Heather Heying to the show for a grounding conversation exploring the complexity of human behavior, the inevitability of making mistakes, the anxieties and fears prevalent among the younger generation, and the importance of understanding risk thresholds in navigating life's uncertainties.
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For additional bonus content with Heather Heying, please visit us on Substack at www.widerlenspod.com
This is excellent-thankyou all, I wanted to be a boy for most of my childhood. At 17 I cut myself . And at 18 I joined a Japanese Martial Arts Club. We all wore uniforms, there was no conversation during the two hour classes, I was on the receiving and delivering end of real physical pain-and learned to respect what that meant to myself and others- (and never cut myself again)and spent hours learning to take falls and get up unharmed. I also met an enormous amount of people-some kind some not so kind-but I integrated into my whole self. Never wanted to be a boy again.
Literally the same story. Martial arts made me realize I didn't want to be masculine I just wanted to be strong and respected. And to be strong and respected you have to work hard, it has nothing to do with being a man (that's why we have feminism, advance respect towards women)
I so agree with Heather on the idea that sexual kinks and paraphilias should be kept private. By all of us, as a social courtesy to others. I do see how socially applying this norm might of necessity sometimes be complex. But just because there may be some gray areas, doesn’t mean most situations would not clearly be on one side of the line or the other. As we lawyers say, hard cases make bad law. But just because hard cases may crop up does not mean that therefore we can have no laws at all.
Yes
I like this perspective
I love Heather & Bret. She is knowledgable, and can communicate with lay people like me.
I hope many people will read their book. 📕
They never deny male and female, and as professors are able to talk smartly to young people.
The communication between Heather and Bret is so amazing, too, and model that to us.
They talk to each other and find ways to disagree respectfully, in public, and have their own jobs, as well as doing the pod cast, together.
I respect their knowledge, and also their qualifications on trans matters, taking many things into consideration.
Also, I listened to Heather and Bret over the lockdowns. Even though I’m older than them I identified that for me they were like parents. Just incredible!
Thanks Heather.
Risk management is always appropriate. I would not be comfortable with a transwoman stranger being in an intimate space with me, because I can’t know if the person is authentic or dangerous.
I work with one. He uses the women’s toilets. If i say anything I will lose my job. So I can’t.
You would not recognize a HSTS transsexual you see us as women . If we are pre-op as many are we would freak out at the thought of even accidentally exposing ourselves.
There used to be psychological profiling as part of the early medicalization process for everyone for a number of reasons, one of which address your concern . Normal men are not violent to women & most are normal.
@@non_ideological_transexual7414 Trans-identifying men tend to overestimate their ability to pass. Just because others say nothing does not mean that they are not well aware that the person is a man. If there are truly some men who genuinely pass as women, I guess it is up to their consciences to decide whether deception is the way to go.
@@pollyparrot9447 What ever make you feel better parrot it😆
@@non_ideological_transexual7414 so... 'not all men'?
I love listening to Heather!
One of the smartest women ever, of all time, married to one of the smartest men, of all time.
Thank you for this!
Really enjoy listening to Heying, particularly. She brings in so many threads..environmental influences..social, biological and chemical..both external and internal. It's such a nuanced conversation with so much texture and so much depth. An absolute pleasure to hear. Thank you, all
I love Heather. I agree with her views on AGP. While you can't have strict legislation on clothing, social shame for some behaviors is appropriate. No need to keep quiet and listen to your internal disgust signals to avoid these men.
I have watched or listened to every single episode of GWL to date. They have all been thoughtful, insightful, and rich with wisdom. This is by far the best yet. The idea that some children are doing this to be under care for life is utterly heartbreaking and seems so true.
As “The Transgender Movement” is like a religion , the bottom surgeries are like a religious sacrifice.
Self-flagellation
@@charlesbrown1365 - much worse than that - generally you can recover from those self inflicted wounds. You can't regrow a penis, a uterus or breasts.
@@honeychurchgipsy6 you’re right about that.
@@honeychurchgipsy6 I should have said self-mutilation
Good point.
When I was a trans man I was very gender conforming by choice and I was happy that way. Until I changed deeply internally and detransitioned. LGBT culture often covers up this fact and takes trans as inherently a revolutionary act against gender norms. But a lot of trans people are gender conforming because they want to look and feel like their desired gave as much as possible. Heather may be onto something that this is restrictive, trans people can't be more natural and androgynous or they won't pass. Even as I got used to being trans and relaxed into it, I still walked around in strain and tension that only dissolved when I was fully healed of transgenderism.
What changed? Was detransitioning difficult?
'Joe Rogan and Oxford University'? Well that's 2 things I never expected in the same sentence.
Why? They hosted a porns start and "winner" of worlds biggest Gang Bang😳
>"Places like Joe Rogan..."
JoeRogan is a place now?
I'm watching this and it starts with a sort of commercial break, just before the guest comes on, which is fine. But then the interview begins and after what seems like 2 minutes there's another of those breaks and it's annoying :< - but I look at the time and 45 minutes have passed. Heather Heying will do that to ya
We could've talked to her for three hours! She's so great!
Here we go with the groundwater conspiracy theories again. For her contention to be true, the areas with the most contaminated groundwater and the fewest wells (mostly agricultural areas where runoff from farms is really bad) would have the most trans-identifying kids, and places with the most wells and/or access to water that is very clean would have the fewest. Well, New York City and San Francisco have some of the cleanest water in the US, so those two cities should have among the fewest trans-identifying children, but wait, they have among the highest! And places like Flint, MI, and other very poor areas should have the highest rates of trans-identifying children, but wait! Black children are far less likely to identify as trans than their White counterparts.
You're most likely to identify as a trans person if you're a White girl from an upper-middle-class area. Why is that? Because it's a social contagion that affects different parts of the population differently. It has absolutely nothing to do with groundwater, and Dr. Heying should know better. (She actually does; she and her husband just like spreading conspiracies.)
Just say you vote Biden,no need for fairy tales.
I agree. As a country kid I had the same questions you have.
Thanks for saying that. Rachel Carson in "Silent Spring" publicized the fact that agricultural chemicals in fact do get into groundwater, so it's not as if well water is pure.
This particular lie is appealing because frogs do, in fact, have sexual developmental malformities when exposed to some kinds of agricultural runoff. That's not what's going on with people.
Can't really miss with Heather H. Great convo.
Thanks for this. I have been a fan of Heather and Bret for years.
Just when I think I know what she will say there are surprises.
Every time I hear it reread Heather I love her more.
Great episode. I always appreciate when the guests are clear and blunt. Hormones, blockers and surgeries are child abuse. There is so much evidence to confirm this.
Incredible episode! I really appreciate how you’ve been illuminating the trans issue from multiple perspectives lately. The parts about hormones in the water and the effects of pesticides were particularly interesting.
An amazing interview. So many great insights.
We've known about atrazine as a xenoestrogen, that it was a problem, since the mid-90's. I feel like the last 30 years has been an accelerating regression. DEVO had foresight.....
I'm only 20 min in and its incredible already. Thank you for putting this together!
Alex J was Right about the Frogs 🐸
A broken clock is right twice a day.
I think Phill Lilly deserves acknowledgement for his effort to educate society about autogynophila . It's very useful and helpful to give people a choice through understanding.
This so excellent!!! Speaking the absolute truth of what’s happening!!!!
Heather Heying is amazing! So matter of fact and knowledgeable, a true scientific realist. I’m only halfway through watching but just had to comment and say how great this episode is! Love it!
Excuse me but I believe an evolutionary biologist just validated one of Alex Jones’ arguments. Fascinating conversation. Thank you!
OMG,nooo....
It’s horrible to think you have to abuse.
I've been wondering about atrazine and how it might be affecting these kids who feel such confusion - it makes me angry in one sense, but also gives me a sense of compassion.
But I think physicians should investigate whether or not there was exposure to it.
After all weren’t these chemicals certified as safe?
And I would think levels high enough to effect populations would only be near agricultural areas. Is this where we are seeing the increase in bd?
Another great interview! Thank you. I'm not entirely convinced by 'the chemicals in the water' argument; but that gives me something to investigate.
There are sports team fan podcasts that have more views than these videos. What's wrong with our world? I'm one of those fans. I use my time spent watching vids about my team asa measure compared to time spent on life altering subjects such as this.
Excellent work ladies, excellent!
Fascinating discussion.
YES love Heather Heying!!!! such a beautiful mind 🔥🔥🔥🔥
is municipal water treated in other developed countries the same way it is in the US? while it's plausible our water causes endocrine disruptions - people should have some serious evidence before making claims like that
What happens when women take the contraceptive pill? They go to the toilet and the hormones from their urine get flushed into the sewers. All modern medicines and hormone treatments get flushed into the sewers in the same way. What happens to the water in the sewers? It goes to water treatment centres and into the rivers and ultimately it is converted into tap water that we drink and cook with. The hormones and medicines are not destroyed in this process. So is it any wonder that the fish in our rivers have had developmental sexual abnormalities for years, and now humans are suffering from sex abnormalities too?
You mean like news anchors when they were saying that vaccines stop transmission and are safe and effective and that Ivermectin is a horse paste?
She's on an obscure podcast but should be held to a higher standard than those overpaid douch*baggs?
The studies have been around for a long time. It's just now becoming more mainstream as institutional trust has, rightfully, deteriorated. This is not "new" news.
Interesting. I'm a gay woman and I'm very "feminine" in that I'm for instance very risk averse. I don't like the attitude where feminine characteristics such as risk aversion and higher levels of anxiety are disparaged. It's valuable that people are different. I never wished for any sort of artificial "tests" but life has provided the most natural sort of test in the form of childbirth. I don't think it's healthy to promote risk taking to people not inclined that way.
Not sure of your point.
Heather is deadly in her ability to surgically debunk the delusions of gender and sex that are so common in our modern discourse.
Heather rocks.
My daughter did everything in her power to fear me into compliance.
Several suicide attempts, including running into traffic and being hit by a car.
Cutting and driving out of state to receive testosterone injections 😞
So sad. I hope you both survive the trials and tribulations. I don’t think she will find herself this way. But you as mom can’t afford to lose her either. So do what you have to.
How old is she? When did it start (to your knowledge)? Just genuinely curious. I can't begin to imagine your heartache. My daughter just turned 24 and I still worry that this mind poison will have its way with her yet.
50:25 Before you get ANY non-neccessary, cosmetic surgery, you should have to sit thru x-amount of close-up video of REAL surgery being done.
I still vividly remember, 20+ years ago, watching video of a nose-job, and other facial cosmetic surgery, and that stuff is BRUTAL; They are literally chiselling bits off your skull, using fancy, stainless-steel versions of carpentry tools; hammers and chisels and hand-saws.I can't imagine anyone watching that stuff, and then CHOOSING to submit to that, in anything except the most dire, physically life-saving circumstances.
Have you seen how they do brain surgery? They literally use the same tools as a carpenter. I recently has a partial hysterectomy - I'm sure that was pretty brutal - if I'd watched it - and my mum had a hip replacement without a general anaesthetic because of her heart condition - that's a pretty brutal op too.
My point is, it's not whether or not the surgery is brutal - nearly all surgery, even today, is brutal - that we should be concerned with, but assessing the need for it, and the outcome.
This is why the transactivists will tell you that the kids must have the hormones and the surgery in order to save their lives.
My husband had brain surgery for a brain aneurysm many years ago and I’m sure it’s been updated, since, it was 35 years ago. This was unexpected. He was 40, but the thing is most people die, but he lived, and he found out later his cousin had one too.
There are so many unknowns in life. What happens, we can’t know, but to walk into it by making surgeries for ourselves…
Talk about these all powerful transactivists. Who are they? How do they have such power over their children? Where do they meet them - and would you agree that the internet is a huge factor in creating this "culture" of transliving?
Where the children meet the transactivists?
1:06:17 - Did Stella say "circus skills trainer"? As in, he teaches people how to walk the high wire, breath fire, and tame lions?
And learn from your elders. That’s what raised human Darwinian fitness through our evolution starting with Homo habilis . In no other species can living generations learn from ancestral generations.smiles
I just donated $18.00 to your channel. You are doing amazing work with amazing guests. Please keep sharing your insights with the world!
Wow, thank you!
@@widerlenspod My pleasure! I donated via your website
That was a good conversation. Contaminants in the water supply is certainly an important issue, but presumably millions of girls drink the same contaminated water without developing gender confusion. If you have two TiFs and they both have trauma in their backgrounds, perhaps look at the most obvious reason why they might choose to reject their femininity.
My kiddo has talked about being an evolutionary biologist!
Thanks!
Lean into the challenge
The read about it vs experience it tension is alive and well. Many of not most employers will push virtual meetings instead of in person. Social media is alive and well among Gen x and boomers, let alone younger generation demographics.
Love Heather
I need the scientifical source for the pesticides causing hermaphrodite cases in frogs please
You can search it. There are numerous studies. Here is one www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC122794/
@@widerlenspod thank you !!!
Can you get investigative journalist, Jennifer Bilek on the show?? That'd be really interesting!!
‘They are turning the frogs gay’- Alex Jones
STELLA! I AM A FAN! BUT I THINK WHAT HEATHER IS SAYING MEANS YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO THE RADFEMS FOR TELLING THEM TO IGNORE THEIR DISGUST FOR PHIL ILLY. IT ISNT OKAY TO SHAME ONE SIDE OF THE CONVERSATION OUT OF IT BECAUSE IT MAKES YOUR JOB HARDER! LISTEN AND LEARN!
stella really prefers to use the euphemism “elaborate” to hide the paraphilia inherent in his presentation. its hard to understand the grey area SHE creates with that language. heather makes the observation that intention/ motivation are important when understanding acceptable behavior in public. We can forgive phil if his “elaborate” personality isnt a choice. But we cant forgive him if it is actually a choice to engage in a fetish by being perceived as a man in a dress. you are either shitting in public or you arent, and it can only be a mistake or a choice. And in that framework I think its only logical to conclude what phil did was a choice. Understanding the trans movement really is about its language, and we cant just replace the movement with more inaccurate language. It does make it harder to address AGP when viewing it primarily as a paraphilia, but that isnt a stigma we can erase by using polite language. we have to work to understand it without leaving any part of the equation out.
When I was eleven I underwent (accidently) an incident that I was told years later was medical torture. Although it was incredibly painful while it occurred, it did give me a feeling of mastery that I knew my friends and classmates never experienced. I was able to be kept quiet, and my experience with the pediatric wards it was not unusual that you would hear screaming and crying.
I remember when my younger brother was about seven he ran into a plate glass window and almost cut one nostril off. They sewed up the wound before the local took effect. I remember him jamming his hands down in his pickets. He never screamed out loud. He was always proud of that moment as well.
@@pathacker4963 My brother and a male friend of mine forgo Novocain at the dentist to prove to themselves that they can take the pain. My cousin who had endometriosis said she would not let it stop her from going to work (I did as well, but couldn't stop things like vomiting and passing out, so my supervisor said to stay home). Everyone I mentioned is a baby boomer. I wonder how Gen Z considers physical pain.
Travel??????? How about just exposing yourself to people that think differently than you. I think if you’re honest with yourself( Heather) that’s what happens to you! No travel necessary. The problem is we just stick with people who confirm all our thoughts but when we interact with people who don’t feel the same we might find that they have a point.
45:16 no, it doesn’t sound crazy to people who have been to war. They know the strength of the connections to those who they fought beside. The camaraderie of the military is true for males and females, but I’m sure much stronger when life and death is involved.
I believe the controversy that evolved was more due to the fact that women were being vilified for asking questions and voicing concerns.
Secondly, I am unconvinced that men with bizarre sexual fetishes/paraphilias haven't developed them due to some developmental based trauma, so I'm not sure why the differentiation.
Yes!!!!! This is what I mean!! I've said several times- have Dr. Shanna Swan on!!! She has been studying the environmental contaminates for decades!
Also, I totally love heather and Brett, and am so grateful for this interview!
Extremism is everywhere. Is it always correct?
Remembering a scene from an episode of 'Friends' when the character Monica interviews for a cooking job, only to find that the interviewer gets sexually stimulated by watching her prepare a salad: th-cam.com/video/5LF-8I8tBl0/w-d-xo.html
Bret's surname rhymes with 'fine wine.'
What can GenSpect do? Start by not using GenSpect's Twitter account to fawn over & push the propaganda output of a male fetishist.
Spot on
Wow. Is it just me, or did she venture into some Alex Jones sh**, there?
You can find a lot of reputable scientific articles that talk about the effects of atrazine on frogs' sexual development. A number of scientists, journalists and agencies have pointed out that this could be a public health issue, and that it could cause endocrine disorders in children. This is what Heather was referring to. Alex Jones, on the other hand, said that the government was purposely using atrazine to turn all the frogs gay and increase homosexuality rates across the USA. And that is definitely NOT what Heather said. Hopefully that clears things up!
Well dang, thanks!
A little bit.
1. I dont understand what fruit flies have to do with HUMAN gender.
2. I hate how this episode begins by talking about the *alleged* differences between men and women, when i feel like healing from trans ideology comes from looking at our similarities.
48:39 The mention of female self-sacrifice makes me wonder if in ancient cultures, when a human offering to the gods was required, some women would have pushed their way to the front of the crowd yelling "Pick me!"
Perhaps because we no longer offer these opportunities, certain women now turn to self-harming instead.
Join a an ocean rowing club-women are amazing rowers and it can be terrifying.
But do these female to males have to take testosterone and other harmful hormones...
Not sure I agree that we need to segregate men and women on the front lines of war/battle: why?
Also, the idea that, as a woman, you will never go to war is incorrect: Russian women fought alongside men during the second world war and there are plenty of women in militaries of countries such as the US, Israel, and UK.
How did we get female front line casualties in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars if women cannot go to war?
Lastly, most men will never go to war.
It has always been rare for women to go to war.
What I've always found infuriating about Heather is the way she's clearly moving towards conservativism, which I should like, but she makes it sound like SHE'S the one re-inventing the wheel, like the vision for how men & women should relate is all coming together for her OUT OF HER OWN CLEVERNESS. She sees what we conservatives call "The Permanent Things," (Marriage, Chastity, etc) and she knows her self to be circling around them, attracted to TEH GOOD by inevitable gravitation, to what's good for men and good for women, both. But SHE'LL BE DARNED if she'll wear the pink conservative-girl skirt and talk the conservative-girl talk. The mores of the SAUDIS will not come to American shores via Heather Heying, NO SIR!
It's just that we've found X, Y and Z to be adapative, SO . . . . .
You're projecting. And you are claiming things for 'conservatism" that are not in its domain alone.
Does she endorse trickle down economics?
Ah yes. The water is making people trans. Even though there have been trans people all throughout time when the water didn't have all these chemicals in it.
I've tried listening to Dark Horse so many times, but it is impossible to get through an entire episode because the trad con prescriptions they derive from lobsters and frogs is ridiculous.
Maybe that point is in question as you say.
But sperm counts have dropped by 50% in the last 25 year’s worldwide. Especially in the west. We are poisoning everything. 😟
Look it up!
I tried really hard to get past the absurd nonsense Heather and Bret came out with during Covid (I mean, genuine tin foil hat stuff) and while a lot of what she says here is sensible, I simply can’t take her seriously and so switched off after fifteen minutes or so. My loss, no doubt.
Our gain.
I think it was the apparent promotion of Illy and his work. His book is a misogynistic mess apparently written by ai, yet you recommended it, I heard. Then I saw you double down and make it worse with Lesbophobic musings in a ridiculous interview with a self-righteous centrist.
the more "gender critical" content i consume the more convinced i am that i made the right choice by transitioning. but they still make me feel bad about it and it creates a cognitive dissonance. since i'm autistic, i am probably among those males that are not meant to reproduce. my high libido was just like chronic pain. even if it has an evolutionary purpose, it had to be managed somehow. but if i pass as a woman, am i taking away women's right to be disgusted and afraid of me? surely there is a conflict of interest.
You didn't transition. You're pretending.
@@Tawny593 pretending what? transition i mean trying to remove the stigmas of masculinity from my body. if that makes someone think that i'm a woman, that means that they are not afraid or disgusted of me. which is a win-win situation.
but "gender critical" people may argue that i'm an inherently bad person for having the wrong chromosomes, so i should be forced to bear the stigma of masculinity to warn others that i'm dangerous. but since these people would hate me no matter what i do, what they think i should do is just irrelevant to me.
@@user-vj4vs4zu3h You really went off the deep end with your answer. There's nothing wrong with being masculine when you're a male.
Sorry, but what you do is relevant to the rest of us. We don't want men in women's spaces. We don't care how they feel. Our safety and comfort matters.
I don't agree with Heying about not being forced to witness other people's sexuality. What about women who show their cleavage? They're involving everyone in their sexuality. Ditto for men in speedos, or showing off their pecs. Just because your sexuality is kinky, doesn't mean yu don't have a right to dress sexually in public.
Nope. I'm out.
😆Ha! you're silly. More Heather for us! 🐿
@@Knuck_Knucks Enjoy.
Why are you out?
@@gp3613 He/she is part of the cult.
Ugh. Heather is the ultimate mid-wit. What happens to frogs has no relationship whatsoever to the trans question and completely misunderstands the phenomenon
I think we can see who the mid-wit is here, and it isn't Heather.
Thank you Jesus. Spread your wisdom to us peasants.
Can we sure?
23:30 Virtue signaling over you water supply, and fear mongering over frogs reaction to certain chemicals is pure crap. Do better.
Maybe that point is in question as you say.
But sperm counts have dropped by 50% in the last 25 year’s worldwide. Especially in the west. We are poisoning everything. 😟
Look it up!
I think Phill Lilly deserves acknowledgement for his effort to educate society about autogynophila . It's very useful and helpful to give people a choice through understanding.