My favorite insane socialist take was a TH-cam video from over a decade ago, supposedly refuting the idea that ancap and ancom societies could exist side-by-side. His argument was that the ancom societies would be workers' paradises, so all of the workers would emigrate there; the capitalists, realizing they need labor to exploit, would build a wall to keep the workers from escaping; and that would be a casus belli for the communists.
The socialist who proposed erecting a statue of Mises, alongside Marx and Lenin, as a thank you for making socialists aware of the calculation problem, and thus making it possible for socialists to solve the problem, was Oskar Lange.
PraxBen Arguments: Socialism has always failed due to inherent flaws, not external pressures. Socialists often fail to acknowledge the practical implications of their ideas. Socialism leads to a state of poverty and subjugation of the individual. The economic calculation problem makes socialism impossible. Capitalism maximizes innovation and individual creativity. Socialism relies on false and distorted views of history and economics. The use of terms like “material conditions” and “contradictions” is a sign of socialist ideology. Socialism relies on government intervention and central planning, which inevitably fail. Free markets and private property are essential for prosperity and individual liberty. Socialist Countries: Soviet Union: The Soviet Union was the longest lasting socialist country because it implemented socialism most consistently, leading to poverty and state collapse. Soviet Union’s economic success relied on black markets and private enterprise. War Communism failed because it was purely socialist, leading to mass death and economic collapse. The Soviet space program was more capitalist than the US space program due to internal competition. The Soviet Union was heavily reliant on stolen technology from the West and frequently oppressed scientists who challenged Marxist dogma. The Soviet Union was not a democracy, despite the CIA’s “unevaluated information” to the contrary. The fall of the Soviet Union was a positive event for the people involved. Burma (Myanmar): The US did not bomb or sabotage Burma, despite being a socialist country. Tanzania: The US provided aid to Tanzania, but it still failed miserably. Somalia: Somalia’s stateless period was better than its socialist period. Venezuela: Venezuela’s economic collapse was caused by socialist policies and central planning, including Dutch disease. Venezuela was heavily reliant on oil revenues to fund its socialist welfare programs. Cuba: The US embargo on Cuba worsened their problems, but it did not cause them. Cuba’s economy was heavily reliant on aid from the Soviet Union. Guatemala: The United Fruit Company was beneficial for Guatemala, providing jobs, infrastructure, and economic development. The agrarian reforms of Jacobo Árbenz were a catastrophic failure that damaged agriculture and living standards. Árbenz was not a socialist, but a self-proclaimed capitalist. Chile: Salvador Allende’s socialist policies initially saw some improvements in the economy, but they were short-lived and led to inflation, unemployment, and economic collapse. Milton Friedman’s neoliberal policies were not responsible for Chile’s economic problems, as the socialist government’s central planning and interference with the market were the primary culprits. The US did not directly intervene in the coup against Allende, and the military likely would have acted on their own due to economic conditions and Allende’s authoritarian actions. Argentina: Javier Milei’s libertarian policies have improved the quality of life in Argentina and helped to reverse the trend of increasing poverty. The economic difficulties Argentina experienced under Milei were due to a necessary reallocation of resources after years of socialist mismanagement. Poland: Poland’s shift from socialism to a free market was initially messy, but ultimately led to significant economic improvement. The Polish economy experienced a “Big Bang” reform, which was much more successful than Russia’s aborted “Big Bang.” Poland’s socialist period was marked by poverty, shortages, and repression. East Germany: East Germany’s transition from socialism to a free market was more successful than Russia’s transition due to the influence of Austrian economics.
Poland was a satellite state of the USSR and a member of the Warsaw Pact. In 1989, they dissolved their communist government and amended the constitution. The Warsaw Pact itself ended after 1991.
Yes I saw that Journal of comparative economics study for Somalia after the Soviets stopped being able to fund them and they collapsed, But I wouldn't call Somalia Stateless even then, It still had about 18 mini governments claiming individual districts and the Sharia Legal system. But anything is better than socialism so everything improved besides Literacy for some reason
Russia was not the one that dissolved the Soviet Union, they had already left before that happened. The last country in the Soviet Union was Kazakhstan and they were the ones who ultimately dissolved the Union.
Russia never left the Soviet Union, that's a lie. Russia declared its sovereignty in 1990, yes, but they were asserting their autonomy within the Soviet system. The Soviet Union dissolved with its collapse in December 1991 with the Belavezha Accords signed by leaders in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.
Can you guys respond to Unlearning economics? He's made some videos about Thomas Sowell and a video about why free stuff is good. I think you would have fun responding to him.
I'm just wondering when we're talking about how price is imperative to determine the "value productive" why wouldn't we use other parameters already taken into consideration even when price is involved. Like, difficulty to collect it, variety of applications, need of products themselves, laborers necessary to produce them within a certain time frame, etc? Along with the quality and availability of resources, along with necessity and sustainability of production. Would these not serve as valid substitutes for how a business would decide what is the best way to produce things. Since even when we also determine value based on something like scarcity, applications, and consumer input? For example, when determining what might be the best material to build a house with, we might look at multiple things: what material is most durable/malleable, how long does it take to work with it, which method is the least resource depleting, how many workers on average does it require to work quickly enough with these materials, and so on. I may just not understand the true meaning, but what I'm hearing is that pricing is the guiding principle on how to determine efficiency. Without some kind of semi-fixed value, we can not accurately determine if it's the best way to go about things. I can't exactly fully understand that logic at this moment since even if one material is more affordable and perhaps even requires less labor, it may not actually be as effective at its purpose. Making it so price doesn't even really play a major factor. I can certainly comprehend the idea that private enterprises will be far more efficient at determining these metrics continuously. I can see how even if a socialist economy might utilize this pre-existing knowledge effectively in the short term, it might struggle to figure it out indefinitely while under a singular entity responsible for all commerce. It's just that the idea regarding the importance of price doesn't necessarily compute with me. If anybody could help expand on this idea more, I'm open to hearing any input. Not that I'm expecting the internet to educate me, as I'll always be educating myself. It can always be helpful to be pointed in the right direction at least.
Would love it if you could get David Friedman on for a roasting/hashing out your differences. He seems to do interviews on random channels with no subscribers all the time, so why not you?
The woman in the second video makes a false claim that isn’t relevant to socialism vs capitalism but I think it’s worth pointing out, because it shows how blatantly she’s willing to assert falsehoods: at 2:11:43 she claims that language perception and production are in different parts of the brain, which is a flat out lie. Not much is known about how language is stored in the brain, but there is no evidence of this particular claim, and in fact current linguistics models generally predict otherwise. To briefly explain why: children need to first perceive and try to understand the language spoken around them, and from there they can try to apply what they’ve learn to produce words and sentences of their own. This process couldn’t happen if perception and production are wholly disconnected and if, as she claims, we can learn to understand without being able to speak. The worst part is that this has no bearing upon economics politics or history. She just made this up for absolutely no reason
I learned the Marxian theory of history from Leonard Peikoff's history of philosophy, and the conclusion that they should be capitalist accelerationists falls out pretty naturally.
@@LiquidZulu Certainly makes sense {I suppose maybe it was infact *you* who guided TIK}~ I merely would like to to accelerate the TIK - Zulu connection :D
im a stronlgy right wing libertarian but i really dont like your retoric "they are stupid, dont understand anything, they are just making excuses and socialism is like choosing death" i dont think that is good
@@ChristopherJames1993 There were no famines in the USSR after the 40s dude, it just wasn't happening. Shortages did occur and the economy did suck but that's not starvation
Anyone else think we need a liquidzulu praxben podcast? I know everyone has a podcast nowadays but that would be at the top of my listening list.
Yes! It should be called Contra Tankie or something along those lines
imagine bob murphy hops on too
Liquidzulu-Praxben Podcast would be so overpowering that government would stop the very next day.
That would be amazing
Talk tuah, but for anarchists
My favorite insane socialist take was a TH-cam video from over a decade ago, supposedly refuting the idea that ancap and ancom societies could exist side-by-side. His argument was that the ancom societies would be workers' paradises, so all of the workers would emigrate there; the capitalists, realizing they need labor to exploit, would build a wall to keep the workers from escaping; and that would be a casus belli for the communists.
In East Berlin, the socialists built a wall to keep the hordes of workers in the West from escaping to the paradise of East Berlin.
sounds familiar, but backwards…
Ah, but it wasn’t reeaaalll communism. (Sarcasm)
that's partially true except it works the other way around, look at Berlin wall.
These commies naieveta is so cute 😊
The socialist who proposed erecting a statue of Mises, alongside Marx and Lenin, as a thank you for making socialists aware of the calculation problem, and thus making it possible for socialists to solve the problem, was Oskar Lange.
You i really liked this please keep doing it
Oh yeah. I've heard of him because his model supposedly solved the ECP,but once you really look at it, it's convoluted.
Zulu and Ben go together like cheese and wine.
eating cheese and drinking wine...this stream was better
PraxBen Arguments:
Socialism has always failed due to inherent flaws, not external pressures.
Socialists often fail to acknowledge the practical implications of their ideas.
Socialism leads to a state of poverty and subjugation of the individual.
The economic calculation problem makes socialism impossible.
Capitalism maximizes innovation and individual creativity.
Socialism relies on false and distorted views of history and economics.
The use of terms like “material conditions” and “contradictions” is a sign of socialist ideology.
Socialism relies on government intervention and central planning, which inevitably fail.
Free markets and private property are essential for prosperity and individual liberty.
Socialist Countries:
Soviet Union:
The Soviet Union was the longest lasting socialist country because it implemented socialism most consistently, leading to poverty and state collapse.
Soviet Union’s economic success relied on black markets and private enterprise.
War Communism failed because it was purely socialist, leading to mass death and economic collapse.
The Soviet space program was more capitalist than the US space program due to internal competition.
The Soviet Union was heavily reliant on stolen technology from the West and frequently oppressed scientists who challenged Marxist dogma.
The Soviet Union was not a democracy, despite the CIA’s “unevaluated information” to the contrary.
The fall of the Soviet Union was a positive event for the people involved.
Burma (Myanmar):
The US did not bomb or sabotage Burma, despite being a socialist country.
Tanzania:
The US provided aid to Tanzania, but it still failed miserably.
Somalia:
Somalia’s stateless period was better than its socialist period.
Venezuela:
Venezuela’s economic collapse was caused by socialist policies and central planning, including Dutch disease.
Venezuela was heavily reliant on oil revenues to fund its socialist welfare programs.
Cuba:
The US embargo on Cuba worsened their problems, but it did not cause them.
Cuba’s economy was heavily reliant on aid from the Soviet Union.
Guatemala:
The United Fruit Company was beneficial for Guatemala, providing jobs, infrastructure, and economic development.
The agrarian reforms of Jacobo Árbenz were a catastrophic failure that damaged agriculture and living standards.
Árbenz was not a socialist, but a self-proclaimed capitalist.
Chile:
Salvador Allende’s socialist policies initially saw some improvements in the economy, but they were short-lived and led to inflation, unemployment, and economic collapse.
Milton Friedman’s neoliberal policies were not responsible for Chile’s economic problems, as the socialist government’s central planning and interference with the market were the primary culprits.
The US did not directly intervene in the coup against Allende, and the military likely would have acted on their own due to economic conditions and Allende’s authoritarian actions.
Argentina:
Javier Milei’s libertarian policies have improved the quality of life in Argentina and helped to reverse the trend of increasing poverty.
The economic difficulties Argentina experienced under Milei were due to a necessary reallocation of resources after years of socialist mismanagement.
Poland:
Poland’s shift from socialism to a free market was initially messy, but ultimately led to significant economic improvement.
The Polish economy experienced a “Big Bang” reform, which was much more successful than Russia’s aborted “Big Bang.”
Poland’s socialist period was marked by poverty, shortages, and repression.
East Germany:
East Germany’s transition from socialism to a free market was more successful than Russia’s transition due to the influence of Austrian economics.
Poland was a satellite state of the USSR and a member of the Warsaw Pact. In 1989, they dissolved their communist government and amended the constitution. The Warsaw Pact itself ended after 1991.
Yes I saw that Journal of comparative economics study for Somalia after the Soviets stopped being able to fund them and they collapsed, But I wouldn't call Somalia Stateless even then, It still had about 18 mini governments claiming individual districts and the Sharia Legal system. But anything is better than socialism so everything improved besides Literacy for some reason
People are starving, but we send dogs to space. Great productivity 😅
The last famine happened after WW2 and it was a minor famine.
Who’s starving
@@zincminus In the Soviet Union people where starving.
@@Petros_Michalakopoulostrue
milton Friedman was never the chile economic advisor, he himself has confirmed this
He also advised India, who did not apply his principles, so I do not see their points.
Russia was not the one that dissolved the Soviet Union, they had already left before that happened. The last country in the Soviet Union was Kazakhstan and they were the ones who ultimately dissolved the Union.
Russia never left the Soviet Union, that's a lie. Russia declared its sovereignty in 1990, yes, but they were asserting their autonomy within the Soviet system. The Soviet Union dissolved with its collapse in December 1991 with the Belavezha Accords signed by leaders in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.
Can you guys respond to Unlearning economics? He's made some videos about Thomas Sowell and a video about why free stuff is good. I think you would have fun responding to him.
Please do more of these. This is absolutly amazing to listen to
I can't believe that woman is a real person
I have a question, what do you think about Hoppe and do you plan to make a video on him?
Great format, looking forward to more of it.
I second you two making a podcast, would listen consistently!
Just finished reading the book Socialism the failed idea that never dies. Highly recommend it.
Dude please make more videos im begging you
I'm just wondering when we're talking about how price is imperative to determine the "value productive" why wouldn't we use other parameters already taken into consideration even when price is involved. Like, difficulty to collect it, variety of applications, need of products themselves, laborers necessary to produce them within a certain time frame, etc? Along with the quality and availability of resources, along with necessity and sustainability of production.
Would these not serve as valid substitutes for how a business would decide what is the best way to produce things. Since even when we also determine value based on something like scarcity, applications, and consumer input?
For example, when determining what might be the best material to build a house with, we might look at multiple things: what material is most durable/malleable, how long does it take to work with it, which method is the least resource depleting, how many workers on average does it require to work quickly enough with these materials, and so on.
I may just not understand the true meaning, but what I'm hearing is that pricing is the guiding principle on how to determine efficiency. Without some kind of semi-fixed value, we can not accurately determine if it's the best way to go about things. I can't exactly fully understand that logic at this moment since even if one material is more affordable and perhaps even requires less labor, it may not actually be as effective at its purpose. Making it so price doesn't even really play a major factor.
I can certainly comprehend the idea that private enterprises will be far more efficient at determining these metrics continuously. I can see how even if a socialist economy might utilize this pre-existing knowledge effectively in the short term, it might struggle to figure it out indefinitely while under a singular entity responsible for all commerce. It's just that the idea regarding the importance of price doesn't necessarily compute with me.
If anybody could help expand on this idea more, I'm open to hearing any input. Not that I'm expecting the internet to educate me, as I'll always be educating myself. It can always be helpful to be pointed in the right direction at least.
Please do more together
Would love it if you could get David Friedman on for a roasting/hashing out your differences. He seems to do interviews on random channels with no subscribers all the time, so why not you?
The woman in the second video makes a false claim that isn’t relevant to socialism vs capitalism but I think it’s worth pointing out, because it shows how blatantly she’s willing to assert falsehoods:
at 2:11:43 she claims that language perception and production are in different parts of the brain, which is a flat out lie. Not much is known about how language is stored in the brain, but there is no evidence of this particular claim, and in fact current linguistics models generally predict otherwise. To briefly explain why: children need to first perceive and try to understand the language spoken around them, and from there they can try to apply what they’ve learn to produce words and sentences of their own. This process couldn’t happen if perception and production are wholly disconnected and if, as she claims, we can learn to understand without being able to speak.
The worst part is that this has no bearing upon economics politics or history. She just made this up for absolutely no reason
7:13 You got that from TIK's recent video talking about Lenin, didn't you?
I learned the Marxian theory of history from Leonard Peikoff's history of philosophy, and the conclusion that they should be capitalist accelerationists falls out pretty naturally.
@@LiquidZulu That was Marx's view on the matter, but Lenin and the bolsheviks disagreed and most marxists these days are on Lenin's side
@@LiquidZulu Certainly makes sense {I suppose maybe it was infact *you* who guided TIK}~ I merely would like to to accelerate the TIK - Zulu connection :D
im a stronlgy right wing libertarian but i really dont like your retoric "they are stupid, dont understand anything, they are just making excuses and socialism is like choosing death" i dont think that is good
Please make more shorter videos for the normies
By the time the space race was happening the Soviets were not starving anymore
Wanna bet.
@@ChristopherJames1993 There were no famines in the USSR after the 40s dude, it just wasn't happening. Shortages did occur and the economy did suck but that's not starvation
@@Testimony_Of_JTFbtw zulu's philosophy can be debunked if you just say that rape isn't immoral
@@atrapanasatromhtos9426 Just deny morality exists
@@Testimony_Of_JTF yep
Zulu can you send me a link to your Discord server or profile?
I believe there is a link on his latest stream~ The post debate part.
If it doesn't work, wait until the next stream for a post debate :D
@@agooddemoman8603 Ok.