Experiments in Magnetically-Delayed Blowback
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
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And now for something completely different!
A few years ago, a friend and I undertook an R&D project to develop a magnetically-delayed blowback action for self-loading firearms. If it could be made to work, such a system would potentially reduce the cost and complexity and increase the flexibility and reliability of certain kinds of firearms.
While the project was ultimately unsuccessful, the entire development and testing process was fascinating and - I thought - worth sharing with you my viewers!
Did your research and calculations take into effect the expansion of the .22 caliber case when fired. Years ago I had a 10/22 and in trying to "customize" it, I polished the feed ramp, breech, and all the bolt faces. I put a mirror finish on all those surfaces. It was beautiful.....but shooting it revealed that blowback gasses were blown right into the face of the shooter My polishing job had altered the lockup time because the case would expand into the polished surface , it could still propel the case backwards. The case and breech was designed to have the case swell and grip the inside of the breech....and then when the pressure dropped the case would release and the case could push the bolt backwards, cycling the action. It racked my 14 year old brain for about a month until I took the gun to a local gun shop with a gunsmith. He laughed when I told him what I'd done and took me into the back. He disassembled the rifle and took a piece of 800 grit sandpaper, put it on a loose mandrel and ruined my meticulous polish job in the breech. After he got a "satin" finish in the breech he reassembled the rifle and took it over to his test stand. Set it up and loaded a round into the chamber, and put another round into the magazine and put the magazine into the rifle. Using a hook he then pulled the trigger, it went off......but no blowback gasses! Same with the second round.... My rifle was fixed! He explained to me what I'd done and the effect it had on the action.... He charged me a whole dollar for the repair. But the lesson was learned.....
Dude you sound like one of those dumbass Facebook chat ai things that make up ridiculous stories to trick boomers
Nobody ever posts videos of projects that did NOT work, but you can learn so much from failures. Plus this is very entertaining and informative aside from your project. Thanks man, keep 'em coming!
well, people post "free energy machines" all the time - but the distinction of people, who I actually want to hear from, posting their failures is refreshing & actually super engaging for me.
it seems like there are a decent few of us with similar interests who are finally getting recommended this channel, so I hope he gets the recognition his effort here deserves.
@@von... Speaking of free energy machines - my sister's rental hybrid car seemed to her like one. After all, the engine was so quiet (anemic) that at significant speeds, the also rather quiet tires, were actually completely drowning it's sound out and the little hybrid battery was pretty much nearly full all the time, while the digital fuel gauge wasn't going down for well over a 100 kilometers.
Turned out that the digital fuel gauge was simply terrible, for it could only display the fuel level in 12,5% steps.
Impressively, this technique does work. Just about six months ago InRange TV featured a gentleman with a 3D printed magnetic-delay 9mm carbine.
AMEN! As a guy who built and fire up, tested, repaired, or others on about every type of equipment or energy around? FAILURE leads to Great Things! with the right attitude an open mind and Eyes Wide Open! and these idiots Paid me! for thing "I would" have Paid to do!
@@workingguy6666I would like to find out how the successful one overcame the problems in this video. I was guessing that miniaturization would overcome the long travel problem.
One problem I see is that the point of a blowback mechanism is to stop the bolt moving any significant amount in the microseconds the bullet is still in the bore yet for the eddie currents to be created the magnet on the bolt needs to move a significant amount. I think the best use of magnets is as a buffer to more smoothly decelerate a high velocity bolt in a short receiver, as that is the point a bolt will be moving the fastest and needs to be slowed down smoothly.
My first thought is that you need an accelerator, like in lever delay, that uses leverage to push the block with the magnets faster than the bolt itself moves back. This would let the bolt stay largely in place until the eddy currents could form, and it would be stronger because it could go faster.
But at that point you essentially have a lever delay rifle already and im not sure what advantage adding magnets would have.
I think so too. I was thinking something like a famas action, but then the whole point of simple designs are gone and you may as well just make a famas.
I think perhaps magnets could be an interesting way to tune rate of automatic fire though.
Another idea is that magnets could make gas operated mechanisms delay at a shorter distance by slowing the impingement (kind of like a free floating piston in between gas vent and bolt).
Still not a simpler design, but it could be an alternative for large caliber pistols/pdws.
I also thought of some type of gearing. But I have no idea of any good material for anything moving that fast through many cycles.
The advantage there would be that you wouldn't have as much difficulty cycling it by hand because the magnet's effects are velocity dependent. You could rack it by hand easily but a bullet pushing it backwards quickly would see enormous resistance.
im here because I was thinking a separate delay mechanism that aso uses eddie currents
Gilles, as a fellow tinkerer and firearm collector/gunsmith I would like to say you never cease to amaze me with the depth of your knowledge about so many things.
I'm surprised a channel this professional and nice is so small. You need more subscribers lol
A lot of guys who show utter nonsense on the internet have a 100x larger audience. :(
He's finally getting a boost thanks to the today I found out channel! And seems to be gaining momentum!
There is another channel like, exactly like this which I think this guy is taking too much inspiration from
Technology Connections
They have 2 million subscribers and are an older channel. Also the host has a great name for the show, Alec WATSON
I've noticed TH-cam recommending me this channel's videos for over a week, which I usually take as a sign that the recommendation is legit and not just a weird quirk of TH-cam's algorithms. So I started watching, enjoyed the videos I watched, and was shocked to see the subscriber and like counts so low.
But the good news is that TH-cam does seem to be giving the channel some visibility.
@@dylanmccallister1888 this is definitely nothing like Technology Connections. TC'S videos are more in the form of a story about the presented technology which is always electric based, mostly home appliances and decorations. This channel does a whole variety of different technologies, both electric and non but mostly non. Also this channels presentation is just straight facts with almost no personal feelings unlike TC.
If you honestly believe these two channels are channels are similar to the point of redundancy, you're not thinking critically about what you're watching. Like, at all.
Some of my most enjoyable learning experiences have been otherwise fruitless excursions down a dead-end rabbit hole like this one. Cool video. Thanks.
I have now seen multiple videos from several different TH-camrs attempting to use magnetic breaking in different applications that commonly use mechanical means. Every single time it proves to be ineffective or impractical in comparison to mechanical breaking.
Your channel is like Technology Connections and Forgotten Weapons had a baby. I love it.
I wonder how much effect there would be if you had a magnet on the bolt and one on the frame that were almost in contact when the bolt is closed and pull towards each other.
As the bolt moves rearward it would provide some amount of resistance to the initial opening but would drop off quickly as the distance between them increased.
I had the same idea with opposing magnets slightly offset to push the bolt in the closed position
the magnet will induce an counter current in the metal alloys i think it will delay it enough.
This was actually how one of the recent 3D printing firearm competitors achieved this. I don’t know the name but it’s pretty easy to find on TH-cam. He created a 3d printed pistol reinforced with magnet parts and can attach and detach magnets to change the recoil properties cool example he showed was turning it into essentially a bolt action that when suppressed was insanely quiet.
@@alecubudulecu the kc9?
@@3darms I think that’s it. Yes. At makers match 2022
th-cam.com/video/kfe8HunzZNA/w-d-xo.html
Very interesting presentation. Almost all new research projects have a very high failure to success ratio, but the knowledge gained is worth the effort. 👍👍
It’s such a fun idea, although in practice if this worked the heat generated would affect the impedance of the metal and change the magnetic properties and reduce its effectiveness after a single shot. Also the magnets would probably be destroyed from the heat. Also the mechanical forces are an order of magnitude greater than the force you can create with such a small area of interaction, so the equations don’t work the way they’re academically taught. There are limits to the size and behaviour of the eddy currents in a given volume of material. Also the phase delay in the field being generated probably means you won’t see anything meaningful from Lenz’s law in response to an impulse like an explosion. I look forward to future experiments though
There's still a lot of potential here. In particular reducing felt recoil by preventing the bolt from sharply impacting the back of the receiver without needing a ridiculously long recoil travel and spring. And generally making a short receiver with a light bolt behave like a long receiver with a heavy bolt.
Potentially making an LMG receiver in an SMG receiver's form factor could be more important than yet another unlocking mechanism, even if it's an elegantly simple one.
How would this be done? Having another opposing permanent magnets at the back of the bolt and where the bolt impacts the receiver?
I have to say, I'm impressed with your ability to very clearly explain these mechanical systems with clarity that allowed me to very easily understand what you were saying. Great video!
('86-'94 CAF MOC R421) Arte et Marte!
Makes sense. You need blowback delay at the beginning of blowback, but eddy currents don’t develop until the slide is already moving fast.
I am extremely impressed by your video. Very well put together in a concise factual manner. The information you provided was extremely helpful.
Thank you for a job well done.
I too have seen the King Cobra video, with their 3D printed frame it seems that their system may be more of a continuous recoil system in that the claim is made that it is softer shooting, and when the magnets are removed the system still functions. A magnetic buffer for machine pistols may be what you have.
My first machine gun was angle delayed-blowback, a Reising m50, fantastic on the range if not on the South Pacific beach.
I made a magnetically locked gun, it just uses a solenoid to engage a locking bar. In the future, I will have the unlocking done automatically based on either time after ignition, or chamber pressure assuming there is a pressure sensor with high enough response rate.
I thought about doing a magnetic delay system for the Ruger 10/22 as well, back in 2017. I got the idea from a guy in Minnesota who designed and marketed a magnetic recoil buffer spring for ARs. Don't recall the name of the company. My design was to incorporate several round neodymium disk magnets on the sides of the bolt as well as in the inside surface of the receiver. The magnets would line up, positive to negative, either complete contact or a slight space between them. After sharing my design idea with this fellow from Minnesota, I cancelled it when he said it wouldn't work and gave me a pretty convincing technical explanation of why. I haven't seen my idea appear anywhere in the gun community, so I trust he was right.
I know its not the same thing, but it reminded me of the Blish lock system used in the Thomson submachine gun.
Took them awhile to realize it was only working because the bolt & spring offered enough resistance & they finally removed the goofy Blish system & produced them a lot cheaper as direct blowback.
Did you see the 30-06 rifle with the same Blish system?
It didn't work very well.
The 30-06 cases had to be oiled to make it work because they were extracting at such a high pressure.
Even with the oiled cases, it still sucked & was prone to failure.
Brilliant!
Connect the bolt to a circular mechanism that results in a long horizontal travel. Allow that travel to occur in the rifle stock. That will allow 9" minimum of horizontal travel. You could also permit the travel to be in a tube, reducing magnetic flux losses.
I tend to take an exception to a researcher who states that a project failed because the hypothesis (or hypotheses) turned out not to work for whatever reason. Every research project taken to its conclusion is a success, regardless of "positive" or "negative" outcome. In either case the researcher(s) proved something, which was not proven before. In a way, one can compare research projects to a blood test: NEGATIVE - great, you are healthy (or there is a need for more tests), or POSITIVE - great, now we know what's wrong, and we can start working on curing whatever it is. I like to think that there are no failed research or design projects, there are only successful and abandoned ones.
Surely the first experiments should have been to examine the fields created
Sounds like a good idea as a replacement for a buffer system
Working out why some assumed solution to a problem DOESN'T work as expected can provide a greater insight into a subject than 100 "Worked straight out of the box" scenarios.
That 1911 looks... Let's call it well-loved
Just what I expected. Any electrical engineer with generator experience would have told you that velocity is needed to generate the force. Your little ramp shows it simply. It accelerates quickly then when moving fast enough stops the acceleration. A lever system that moves the magnet through a much longer travel than the bolt would accelerate the magnet much faster. Put the magnet system in the buttstock with a 10 to 1 lever on the bolt.
One of the main disadvantages with this delay concept is that permanent magnets 🧲 lose strength at elevated temperatures; alternatively you could use battery supplied magnetic source would not lose power but would be a pain to rely on batteries.
the blowback could be used to charge up capacitors so you´d never run out of electricity
In short: Too much delay in the delay.
Absolutely top tier content here. Not only are you sharing novel ideas...but you were not afraid or ashamed to say that your idea failed (not to mention breaking down exactly WHY it failed). This is not seen very often, and most people dont understand just how much of a positive impact that makes as a whole. If you did a collaboration with Ian at Forgotten Weapons, I think that'd be mutually beneficial to both channels. You are similar in the professional style of video structure, you both bring excellent ideas and both make great points on everything you cover. I'm sure you are both extremely busy individuals, and it may be difficult to do so, but I think it would be the most watched and most informative video either of your channels have published. Don't take that the wrong way, because I you and Ian are now my all-time favorite channels
This video is extremely interesting and well put together.
I use neodymium magnets to delay the blowback of my AR9, they sit on opposite sides of the bolt, I think they work better if I machined the spots where I put them to get them closer to the bolt, you can tell the difference with them on and off
I wonder how your sophisticated system on your AR9 would compare to the simple but effective combo of a KAK 10oz buffer and an AR10 recoil spring on my AR9.
I do wonder if the recoil of a firearm with demagnetize a magnet since it’s getting rattled?
@@Poverty-Tier I was able to remove the weight in the bolt and use a 3oz buffer, it originally had an 8 or 9oz idr, so it calmed the recoil impulse significantly
Ok this is when I just had the magnets on the outside of the gun, this did very little to mitigate recoil, I customized a buffer body with neodymium magnets that attract to the castle nut, I removed the weight from the bolt and replaced the 8oz buffer body with a 3oz customized buffer body
@@nicoscarfo4486Do you have a video of this?
Interesting! Good work! You often learn more from "failure" than from success!
So glad youtube recommended this video, and that you shared your results. I was just considering this idea.
I was gonna turn this video off, and then i saw the mas and realized you are a man of culture.
I've watched zillions of gun videos and never heard such a great description of how/why blowback is avoided. Ty!
What a fascinating account! Nicely done, my man.
Sounds like it could've worked *better* with a long-recoil action, that'd've been interesting but very difficult
Fantastic. My old Thorens TD124 turntable uses an eddy current magnetic brake for speed control. An ideal application.
Did you consider arranging a series of thin Nd magnets in a Halbach array to maximize the distance and field strength at their braking surface at the expense of nulling it out on the opposite side?
Actually we did, but given the data from all our other empirical tests, we determined that the combination of losses from the materials, the gap between the magnets and the braking block, and the spreading field lines would still have been too high for the system to be practical. In a .22LR rife, the distance over which the bolt's travel must be delayed is around 1cm, and this is difficult enough to accomplish with a magnetic brake small enough to fit into the receiver. On most cartridges like .223 the distance is even shorter but the force is much higher, making the whole concept impractical.
@CanadianMacGyver
It would be far more useful in centerfire cartridges.
Maybe something like 5.7x28, which is commonly delayed with a lever system.
Every .22LR I know of is direct blowback, since a very light slide or bolt & spring is sufficient.
What a learned scholar we have here
Might be able to do it with a recessed headspace/chamber 50 bmg if u could figure out a way of preventing the casing from jamming into the wall of the chamber
I was about to post a similar question
One of my favorite blowback designs it the oerlikon 20mm aa gun. It uses a rebated rim and advanced primer ignition to allow a 20mm cannon to fire from an unlocked breech. By igniting the primer while the bolt is still traveling forward the cartridge must overcome the forward momentum of the bolt before the chaber can open.
The joy of experimentation is that you get to learn something new. I loved doing experiments in grad school because you think it is going to behave this one way and sometimes it does but other times you get the exact opposite and then you get to figure out why. That part of grad school never felt like work.
You had me at "magnetic eddy current delayed blowback system"!
Nice video, and that's an interesting design! At the beginning of the video, I was thinking that your description of how eddy-current braking works (namely that the counter-force generated is proportional to the velocity) meant it would be unsuitable to a delayed blowback system. Such systems need the delay to happen when the velocity of the bolt is at 0 or near-0 (ie. while the bolt is still in place and sealing the chamber), not when the bolt is already in motion after unsealing the chamber. In short, it sounded like the system would produce the least breaking when it matters and the most when it doesn't (or even when it could become counterproductive, depending on the recoil spring). I got a chuckle out of the description of that very problem at the end.
That said, I wonder if the same principle might not still be useful in longer-stroke rifles to cushion the perceived recoil by bleeding off the bolt's velocity before it impacts the rear, and magnetic linking might be useful to designs trying to maximize separation between the firing mechanism and the combustion gasses.
Also, it's funny how many common technologies boil down to setting off contained explosions...
I too have pondered how to delay breech opening, so this was most interesting. What is needed is an inertia multiplier or at least something that works like inertia.
Not every self loading firearm has a mechanism to slow down the action. Many smaller caliber firearms from .22short up to .380acp are simple blowback operated firearms with no delayed mechanism. That's also true for many 9mm firearms and even some .40'SWs and .45ACP's. The Hi-Point firearms are all straight blow-back if I'm not mistaken,. I think even the .45's and 10mm's are too... and most of the older 9mm SMG's are also (Uzi, Sten, MAC, Sterling, Thompson and many others). Many are in .45acp too.
Nicely done! A great explanation of testing theory and assessing results.
I am enjoying your series of videos for their engaging detail and as a transplanted Canadian with a keen interest in the mechanics of firearms this title certainly caught my eye.
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing! I'd had the idea for a magnetic delay system about 3 years ago just fiddling around in my head, I'm glad someone actually pursued it and their findings were here for me to recalibrate my thoughts about eddy currents! I still believe an equally simple delay system is waiting to be found though, without gas ports, rotating bolts, rollers, levers, etc... It's out there somewhere, waiting to be found.
There's an interesting piece of software called QuickLoad that gives you the pressure curve over time in a given barrel from a given powder load and bullet weight.
I salute this brave R&D endeavour and the way you make it a learning experience. Clear negative results make science progress !
When you originally said that magnetic resistance of the eddy currents is directly proportional to the force applied, You showed the error in your hypothesis of your design. I have a patented braking system for zipline trolley wheels that uses eddy current braking. While testing various configurations, I realized that the resistive force of the magnetic field is directly proportional to the differential speed of the magnet and the di-magnetic material, the conductivity of that material, strength of the magnet(s), distance between the magnet and di-magnetic material, and if multiple magnets are used in series, alternating their polarity also increases the resistive force.
I think you could have made your system work if the bolt entered the breach for about 3-4 cm allowing the bolt to accelerate rearward while still holding/keeping the chamber pressure sealed. This is only when the eddy current resistance would be available to delay the ejection of the spent casing.
This project is a great example of how, what we think we understand might be possible theoretically or scientifically, from our education, is often wrong, and thus scientific laws are not accepted and 'settled science' until it can be repeated anywhere and anytime, as a result just because something works in one situation does not mean it will work the same in even a similar situation. I have learned there are very few situations where science is settled, Science is observe, record, report.
Education only helps us understand more of what is happening in our life experiences, and it is only during and after those experiences that we truly learn and understand how and why the science we studied works, but also, often more importantly why it didn't work. But only if we are open to the idea that we could be wrong.
11:32 As a United States viewer I can't help but be in awe that with the draconian civilian-disarmament laws of our northern neighbors you're just casually flashing a (presumably) un-papered SBR on the internet. That aside, thanks for the walk down memory lane to my college (university) physics classes!
The USA has silly laws on the possession of SBRs and suppressors - here in the UK SBRs with barrel lengths of 12" or more are treated the same as other rifles and suppressors are treated as normal rifle components. Suppressors for air weapons can be free purchased in England and Wales.
That building magnetic field is observable when you drop a pendulum against a copper plate
This effect is even used in some shooters' reloading balance scales, to magnetically damp oscillations of the balance arm.
Very good. Nice to see an experiment gone wrong and such a good explanation.
Only problem I can see is that the eddy current braking is dependent upon relative motion between the magnet and a conductive [aluminum or copper] substrate, while the *prevention* of relative motion until the critical period is past and the barrel pressure has subsided is the necessary attribute of the breech.
Your idea may work in conjunction with advanced primer ignition. Magnetic braking can stop/slow down an object in motion but not an object at rest. If the bolt or a linear hammer was used for API this idea might be helpful.
magnetic braking would be a better application for slowing down a lightweight bolt on, say, a gas-impingement system or ar15-style gas system where you want a lightweight bolt, but you also want "overgassing" for adverse condition operation or suppressed shooting. You would use the braking effect to slow the bolt velocity down before it slams into the rear of the receiver/buffer tube.
You get something like viscous damping from the braking system. if your standard damped oscillator is m*a+c*v+k*x = f(t), then bolt/buffer mass, m, and spring weight, k, are typically there, but you can add the viscous damping, c, with eddy braking.
the point is, "c" can't replace "m" in the physics
The moment I read "magnetic" and "delayed blowback" I knew instantly what the idea is and I love it, it's exactly like some of my wonky firearm ideas :D I love that we're still looking into new ways of operating a cartridge firearms, it's such a fascinating field.
Absolutely fascinating. Your experiment was worth the gain of knowledge and you passed that knowledge on to us. This wouldn't involve your eddy current idea but I suppose a bolt could be held closed electromagnetically until the gas or recoil broke the connection and allowed the bolt to move back.
Another thoroughly fascinating and easy-to-follow interview.
Thanks so much.
I think the first answer lies in electromagnets and solid state relays. One on the front to keep it closed, one in the back of the receiver, and some solid state electronics to turn each one on when it's it's time to work
Guns are the coolest things to experiment on. Why not try attaching a rod to your bolt like a gas piston with magnets up front in the hand guard to add more braking force. also you could put a south pole facing magnet on the bolt and a north pole facing magnet in the rear of the receiver to act as a magnetic buffer
The 3d printing ppl are using magnets for blowback operated pistil caliber carbines. They are adding magnets in a series to the receiver to slow the recoil of the bolt a little bit.
Like T. Edison said, I have learned 999 ways not to make a light bulb....
This is so cool
I cant wait for Ian's kids to do a video on this in 50 years.
It's funny... I intuited the velocity issue within the first few minutes. And yet, I will still say you were a far better engineering student than myself. The modelling, fabrication and experimental method applied is top notch.
I had imagined a spaced out magnet in the bolt and/or receiver could provide the braking force required. But it would be very spatially sensitive and lose that key advantage you propose of the inherent scaling for larger forces in the chamber.
Additionally I think you underestimated the downsides of putting magnets inside a receiver, especially ones powerful enough to provide compact braking arrangements. The amount of abrasive fouling that would stick to and around a rare earth magnet, especially in a rimfire action... death... just death.
Personally have not studied engineering, so correct me in I'm wrong, but even if a lot of these rare earth magnets are strong, they don't attract over very far. I had a pair that were strong enough to bend thin metal easily, yet I could toss them in a styrofoam cutout in a box that wasn't even 10 inches across. I assume you could probably have every side of the magnet covered up, and only one side exposed. Ofc it would be a lot of work, but the concept could work with some minor changes
Around 6:40, one other disadvantage of simple blowback actions is that they lead to platforms which feel much "thumpier" to shoot with more felt recoil than equivalent firearms chambered for the same loads. This is due to the the inertia of that massive bolt slamming back and forth.
Granted, as most firearms designed with simple blowback actions tend to be small-caliber pistols and cheaply made submachine guns and machine pistols designed for close range combat and self defense anyway, this isn't too much of an issue, especially if it results in an affordable, rugged, and reliable firearm that isn't too picky about what ammo you feed it. For folks (including governments) on a limited budget, having 10 cheap subguns you can give to 10 of your buddies is generally better than having one expensive, finely milled roller-delayed blowback subgun among your small militia whilst everyone else has only knives and pointy sticks.
For those of us who like to shoot PCCs (Pistol Caliber Carbines), simple vs. delayed blowback is a question of interest... and budget. For me, at least, my dream PCC is something like an H&K SP5 or a B&T SPC9, due to the roller delayed blowback on the former making it feel even more soft-shooting than a gas blowback airsoft gun. As for the latter, I have yet to have the chance to shoot one, but from what I've heard, it's just as soft-shooting as the SP5 and has the advantage of more modern ergonomics.
the advantage of this is you can mass produce a bunch of magnetically-delayed blowback action blocks and they can be one size fits all across multiple caliber bullets and you eliminate the dangers of people over charging the bullets when hand reloading.
stock bullets leave lots of room in the casing for more powder but are manufactured to leave some room for safety for consistency however you can hand reload bullets you can buy the tools and presses and the bullet slugs and even cast your own bullets.
the dangers come about if you over charge the bullets with too much powder you run the risk of blowing up the gun and causing injury or even death.
why people do hand reloads is they can tune their loads to be better for their use to be better than factory as well as save money.
hopefully you are going to eat the losses of this project and not pass the costs of failed projects onto your customers as inflation on any products you develop for sale
A gas delay action uses gas to hold the action closed. The hk p7, Walter ccp, and styer gb are all examples. The tap gas from just in front of the chamber to pressurize below the barrel (around with the styer). That gas acts on a piston attached to the slide and prevents cycling till the bullet leaves the barrel, and the pressure drops. Then there pistol cycles like any blowback pistol. The mas is a locked breach, it uses the gas to move the bolt carrier. The movement of the carrier is the only way the bolt unlocks.
This was an awesome video to watch and had me enthralled the whole time
Very nice video. I subscribed. Finding out we are wrong is often more instructive than being right.
I never understood the excitement for this type of idea. A spring is such a simple thing, not much can go wrong. Trying to use magnets overly complicates it and brings in multiple potential sources of failure. You can't get much more simple and cheaper than a spring....
Very cool idea. Finally, a TH-cam video that is TOTALLY honest. An excellent example of real world engineering. Sometimes a great idea just doesn't work out. Thanks for the video!
That's funny, i read the title of video and immediately got two sentences in my head:
1) They're trying to use eddy currents to delay simple bkowback
2) It won't work, the opposing force is proportional to velocity not the input force, this need a secondary mechanism to delay it _while_ it gets up to speed, at which point you've either overcomplicated it is added enough mass that you might as well stick with inertia delayed blowback.
And I'm not an engineer or anything, I don't know any of the maths and I couldn't tell you how or why I came up with that. I guess I've just heard bits and pieces over the years and my brain jammed some factoids together and solved a problem. This often happens to me and I have no idea why.
If there is a solution, it's tweaking the maths so that the opposing force needed is generated at a certain velocity that's reached as close to instantaneously as possible.
Maybe a spring, or springs, that has/have variable spring force depending on the bolts position and velocity.
Maybe it could even be as simple as two springs, one long, thin and weak inside one short, wide and strong.
So fast bolt acceleration at first, slowed by magnets and then caught and returned by the short and strong spring?
Or maybe just even a weaker spring.
Next I would look at the force/velocity relationship and see how varying the geometry (or even variable geometry?) of the magnet/metal affects it.
Nice test and trial. Hope you come up with more ideas and test them.
Thank you. Excellent. Good explanation of system. I never thought of your system. Listening to your channel
I'm always glad to see failed results being published, even if only on TH-cam, congrats!
I have an idea, on the slide of a pistol would have small pneumatic pin and would slot into a socket which has an adjustable air bleed screw to delay the blowback and another pneumatic pin on the back end that's unvented, this would cut down the metallic clunk when using a suppressor, biggest advantages are a full burn for the bullet to leave the barrel
the adjustable air bleed screw would allow full blowback on low or high velocity rounds and a quieter operation
That's a concept that sounds amazing on paper but i could only imagine the horrors of trying to keep a rifle embedded with rare earth magnets properly clean in the field.
Even though it didn't work out, I'm sure you had a lot of fun in the attempt and learned a lot along the way too.
Probably the most engaging and fascinating episode of Forgotten Weapons that never was.
Okay I’m sure that there’s something that I’m missing, but couldn’t you just use normal magnetic attraction between two forces to essentially “multiply” the force a round has to exert on the bolt before it starts to move? Then by having another set of magnets at the end of the bolt travel, you could essentially assist the spring in pushing it back into battery? Please poke holes in my idea, if I think it’s possible for too long, I might lose my mind and try to design a firearm based on that system😂😂
I think you could, the first very small amount of travel would be strongly, magnetically opposed, so the movement (acceleration really) would be slow, then a tipping point would be reached and the opposing force would reduce massively to permit the bolt to open followed by a gradual increase to function like a spring and push the bolt back (forward?) to chamber a round. It shouldn't be too difficult to design a system of magnets that give this response, not trivial to be sure but definitely not impossible.
@@joshuagrundmann2712 too late. I downloaded a free CAD software to mock something up, only to discover that I’m absolutely awful at 3d modelling. I’ll need to outsource that part lol
Great video.
Thank you for making this video! I had a similar idea earlier this year, and I was quite confident that it would work. Your insight has saved me a great deal of time. I'm glad I found your channel. Sometimes the youtube algorithm picks you a winner!
Interesting project! I think the biggest problem was using 22LR. Very little bolt mass is required to generate high pressures. I'm willing to bet the gun operated fine even with the lightened bolt. Using 9mm, or ideally an intermediate cartridge like 5.56 would generate the higher velocities to maximise braking power.
Linear magnetic buffers CAN work. They recently released one for the AR15. The problem is if you actually DO get impacts, it will damage the magnet by knocking the particles out of alignment. It has to be designed or calibrated such that there can be no actual impacts on the magnets. But this isn't quite what they're doing here. This is a magnet-delayed system, not just a magnet-damped system.
Very cool! That short barreled 10/22 looks amazing.
One more reason the NFA needs repealed.
I wonder why freight trains don't use eddy current braking?
Seems like it would be much more efficient than wearing out brake shoes.
#1978garfield Freight rains I watch seem to stop adding power well in advance of where they want to stop and coast that big mass to a stop mostly. It seems that breaks are for fine tuning a stop or for an emergency stop. They use driverless robotic "slave" engines controlled by the master engine also.
that was very interesting. thank you for sharing.
imagine something that not only uses a magnet to delay the blowback but also uses the magnet to bring the bolt forward.
Okay. I'm glad I started following this channel. This was very fascinating. I'm halfway wondering about piezo modules to induce an electromagnetic charge. But, this is far outside an field of expertise I have. Still, I'm glad you showcased this design. Even if it didn't work, it only means that this particular approach didn't. And it still produced valuable information as part of the process.
The king vibrant made this work though, perhaps a thought study on why it works is in order?
I was always skeptical of his design working as theorized based on the limited detail he provided and proof of a lightened bolt
Your channel is amazing. When i start making more than 9k a yeay i will support you financially. You have taught me so much that i feel that it is the least that i could do. Thank you for making the collective intelligence of the world a bit elevated.❤
Could work slowing the bolt down AFTER opening to minimize the recoil shock of the bolt slamming against the back of the receiver.
Now I really want to see someone cast magnetic bullets and fire them down a copper/aluminum pipe to see how long the pipe would have to be to stop them or slow them significantly. Seeing the eddy current braking working on a projectile that fast would be fascinating.
Fascinating project.
This is the best thing about Science. Even through failed ideas or experiments, information can be learned and Science benefits. Great presentation of just sticking to the Science and leaving the politics out.
I love that H and K had been on the space magic train even before the G11
This is a perfect example of how failure often contributes more than success to knowledge. 👍🏻