The game for me is about living amongst the stars. Building a base and having a steady cash flow. Ships are just tools to achieve that. In the end when it does release I’ll keep what is most sentimental to me (1-3 ships) the rest if not maybe all I would melt for 1 ship to hold the value of my entire fleet. That ship will encapsulate my entire journey as a backer. The fun of the game will be trying to “live” in the verse and obtain as many ships as possible even working for the ones I melted that I previously owned.
This is pretty much what I did. I only have two ships pledged and may only do one or two more. But I chose them for the way I want to play. I may collect others using in game money but I'm mostly concerned about what I can do with the ships.
I hope it does release some day. My fear is that there’s no financial incentive to do so. To clean up and refine what’s already in would take years. Then there’s the ship list and the various sectors and flight mechanics etc etc.
Not only that, but the most fun aspects of the game earn the least amount of money like bounties and bunkers. Boring stuff like mining and trucking make WAAYYYY more money!
@@strategygalactic >Ever explore for a starfish? Yes. There are actually starfish in Hurston lakes. Did you know it? I saw them while riding my pledged hoverbike on the lakes in the bright Stanton sun.
I left ED because of grid. Now SC is netting pay for missions and intentionally slowing gameplay. I enjoy NMS, but the flight and color palettes are not the most appealing. I'm considering switching my spending to DCS, though my heart is one of a space pilot. I fear SC will have elements of a lot of great games, but they will only be mediocre in SC.
Most players in SC are adults. As adults with full time jobs, families, etc. they do not have time tk grind at a game to get a ship to grind to build a base, etc. You either grind at work to have discretionary income to buy an advanced ship, or grind in the game.
I agree 100%. The problem is that many people, like me, don't have much time to play, which makes it impossible to get a starting ship and evolve at a pleasant speed, which gives us the feeling that we are evolving over time. That's why I preferred to spend a little more money and have a more pleasant experience, from my point of view.
I totally get that and I am in a similar position! I decided to upgrade to the Zeus rather than stay at aurora. Doing this let me stay at one ship but also lets me have so much still to work for, without being bottlenecked by a starter ship like the aurora.
Getting started out sucks but luckily the star citizen community is very nice. When I first started playing I posted on Reddit asking if someone can hop in a game and show me what to do, we did every type of mission and let me use his vulture. On my first play session cos of the kindness of others I had made around 1.6million
I would want to argue, that the problem is not that you don't have enough time to play the game, but that the progression in the game feels meaningless and too slow. If it would be able to earn your dreamship in a reasonable amount of time, I think more people would want to go "zero to hero" then now
@@Tschenggo I agree. I think a lot of people think the 1.0 grind will be just like how it is now. Which certainly could happen but assuming it becomes more meaningful and fun as it should be, the time you spend earning money towards a ship will be enjoyable.
You make some good points in this video. It got me thinking, what if eventually CIG ran two Persistent Universes? One universe where all is normal and you have your pledge ships. And a second, separate universe where nobody has access to their pledge ships except starter ships. All ships would have to be bought and earned in-game, and that universe could wipe at the end of each year so everyone starts fresh again for the next year/wipe.
I'd be ok with that. Honestly, I am thinking of just running Zero to Hero when it wipes fresh. I believe playing in a universe where everyone has a starter ship feels a bit silly lol. I want my world to already feel lived in. I want to work for other players and earn credits. I have a $600 hangar value but I don't care if I keep it or not. Maybe give me some cool gear to appreciate my funding so I can show off and I am happy.
There is also the posibility to add "entry requirements" for ships, so people that have their 890 Jump may need a high repution with Origin Jumpworks....you still get your ship without paying for it in came with cash, but when you start you still have a progression you need to go through. Or building on your idea of the two universes, you could also have a "Tutorial-Universe" where everyone starts in an Aurora and once you progressed to a certain point you can go into the persistent universe where you have your pledged ships or for the people that didn't pledge for more than a starter they could keep the ship they "earned" in this tutorial universe....maybe something like a Freelancer/Cutty Black/Zeus/C1
I had this idea a while ago, and it would be a perfect solution except you’d both split the player-base and increase the server costs. It could very well still be worth it but they’d have to do a serious valuation
I am kind of old, I work 60 hours a week, I have a wife... If I get 3 hours a week to game, that is a lot. I expect by 1.0 the days of earning a constellation in one day will be long gone. Probably take 100-200 hours of grinding. I don't have that kind of time. I want to PLAY the game, not make it a second job. My hangar is like a toolbox, with the right tools for the right jobs. If I want to race with certain friends, I have 2 or 3 racers. If I want to live out my "Dark Matter" of "Firefly" fantasies.. I a Carrack that the gang can take out... if I want to try to be an ace star fighter pilot... I have got a few fighters. IF our org goes to war. I (will soon) have a Polaris. and if I want to make money... I have several sized Cargo Ships from Nomad to BMM. I don't have to work for 5 years to finally be able to play the game. You did touch on a key factor... a lot of people have a big ship and big dreams, and then they will start out with 5000 spesos like everyone else. and won't be able to afford to run that ship. that is the big leveler. unless they start buying UEC on the website.
@@Gabriel-rx2kl " @strategygalactic if you'd actually have read his paragraph you'd have seen that he did mention that you can buy uec" You forgot to tell them it's in the last line. Without that they'll just faceroll the keyboard.
@@strategygalactic "You can buy credits, Mr. Paragraph." You mean the thing they wrote in the very last line: ". unless they start buying UEC on the website." ? Yeah, they did that.
I think your assumptions have a major flaw: you see bigger ships as progression, simply because that is the only kind that currently exists currently in this *very* unfinished Alpha. Will every player *ever* get past a solo ship? Own a capitol ship they bought with real money, *and have the crew to make it effective?* Not only unlikely, but flat out ridiculous. The value of any ship in this game is how effective and *fun* it will be. Show me the solo player that will ever have fun in a capitol ship alone? Fly that incredibly large, slow, cargo laden and expensive to run ship without an org (that means friends that play together.... MMO kinda needs that dynamic to thrive)? When a single player in a decent high end fighter can trash them? Of course not. The value in any of it is their usefulness to enable fun. Like all MMOs, style is the real endgame. And this will be no different. Cosmetics will always sell better than ships because in the end most players won't have a *use* for most ships.... but they will for looking (and therefore feeling) cool. Right now that doesn't sell, strictly because gear can be lost so very easily. Why buy something you are guaranteed to lose? I think most people will invest in their daily driver... and not much else. The majority of players have just their starter, and pray for a no-wipe update. But having some of the bigger stuff out there won't harm the game. In fact it will make it better, since those with the big toys will always prefer to have people who want to crew *as* crew. Meaning more options will exist for things to do. Want to specialize in engineering gameplay? Fighter? Boarding? Trading (and the security for them)? Solo exploration? Team based Exploration? The Terrapin might end up being a great ship for a couple people to do that loop ...but the Carrack just too much effort. Or a style of the gameplay loop these people don't like as much, while these other people like more. Or some that prefer Hauling on medium to small ships, preferring the solo life, doing smaller high risk or illegal cargo... while this other group of people like functioning as a convoy, backing each other up... and yet a third group prefers the biggest ship they can run, like maybe an Ironclad, fully loaded with people, a couple escorts, working in safety, but expensive bulky cargo. Prime pickings for pirates... who need to work together, almost military style. And the "off grid" crowd is another point of view (and differing ship needs) entirely. And that's all just basic sandboxy stuff, without any actual story content involved. And none of it requires everyone to have a ton of ships. Just the basics... with some orgs having some extra stuff available to suit their most enjoyed gameplay. Your view on "value" misses the point. Not everyone will spend real cash. Those that already have deserve to keep what their belief in the vision inspired them to invest. And if the game actually does hit release (and if it is as good as we believe it will be) then that small percentage that spent real money to get the big ships now will be an even smaller percentage of a much larger group of players that will have options available if they join up with them, crewing their bigger ships, escorting those teams, learning from older players... together. And don't bother bringing out the old tropes of AI server blades and hired NPC crew... we all know they will never be effective, or fun. A solo player can take and capture a fully crewed NPC Idris. That lack of effectiveness won't change just because a player owns it. Real crew is fun, and effective. Anything less just won't be as much. But even these choices do need to eventually be in-game. Options are good. Even ones we wouldn't "waste time on" personally. Every Player's experience will be different. (edited for typos/grammar)
Well from what I know and read, the ships come into play with crewing them and maintenance! You can buy the ship but in the game, you won't be able to fly it out of hangar or afford the replacement if something bad happens! Parts just alone will cost you an arm and a leg. And with engineering, fire, and oxygen maintenance coming online this is the start of that! You need a crew for big ship to keep your components healthy while you fly it! Smaller ships like the F7C will require money, you have to have a foundation of income in order to fly the next tier ship to support it. So in my opinion everyone has a fair strat! Now CIG does sell credits, UEC but, wants again you have to have a foundation or that will dwindle down. I bought my Idris so I can walk around it and never leave the dock and simile, I kid, I kid, I bought it because I want to find a small fleet and group of friends and not crazy organized fleet who don't have one who can make use of one in their fleet!
Thank you for the comment and I appreciate your perspective! I hope CIG really pulls through with the need for a crew with larger ships. And I totally respect the way you look at it!
Curious, how hard was it to get that and when did you get it? If ever you want to build something yourself, org, group of friends that become more than that. Feel free to reach out you own a incentive. Cant tell much about plans. But let say goal is to avenge the sackings and toy with king ships. 🙃Reach for the sky and fall like a fiery angel or bask in the glow of glory. For the UEE!😅 As to topic, why i think difficulties in getting ingame, or money makers are a priority if one are to get something on the pledge store. Stepping stones. Many things will also be locked behind reputation and or possibly different space sectors and their reputation again.
I think the biggest Issue I have with your statement is how you see the ships. While there's certainly a huge grinding aspect removed giving a lot of people/orgs a huge speed up in theory yet its hard to apply it as soon as you account for maintaining such large ships. Military ships for example are most likely to be so god damn expensive in maintenance that you would never consider bringing it out just to slap your dick around. Money aside ... the personnel for them which I think will be hardest to just ... get together. Meaning while in technicality a lot of people have such a ship only rarely will it be used that much. Maybe at the start everyone will bring them out but any nature of game will have it slow down eventually. People will realize that sometimes getting a ship half the size gets you double the profits. This obviously comes down to the each individual what they consider to be their true goal in this game. So ofc when you just want to mine and live out life in a space trucker type of simulation then I can see that this removes a lot of drive for such a person. Yet on the other hand for someone that's into conquering and building out a system like EVE has it (I know heavy cope here) its just a tool that you get ... a bit faster then the rest and will most likely not have a large impact on the overall game in the longterm. They had to get the funding so I can't really say there was any other way for them to realize it. I hope my comment is kinda understandable cool video tho considering the rather fresh channel :)
I love the way you put it. And I totally agree. Assuming CIG actually pulls through with everything they’ve said, It really comes down to the player and what they want to do, and what they want to work towards. Overall I think you put it really well though, I appreciate the comment a lot!
@@FuriousImp Im sure they will! its just a matter of time until they're being implemented. My opinion on the whole team is not that they can't do it but just that they're brutally inefficient. checking out CIG's Job reviews gives some insight.
I understand your point and I thought about it as well and I think I've "found a solution" For the context I've played gta online as well I few years ago and one day I became lucky/cursed because of a modder. The guy spawned billions on players on the server just like that without warning. At first it was fun to have li'e 20 billions because I was able to buy everything. But in the end I started to have less fun in the game. Never been banned by r* and I play to the game few times in a year. And for SC, I spent a lot of money in the game because I felt in love of ships, but to prevent this, I'm planning to start with starters and let some weeks happen before getting a bigger ship. Like this I hope to keep my interest on the game longer! 🤞
I'm twice concierge, but I understand your POW. You hope you will be able to play the game, earning everything, which I appreciate. Many of us, who bought ships when all we could do was looking at them in a Hangar, doubt the game will ever be released, looking at the bloating of the company and its inability to deliver what a single indie developer can. We bought dreams, (my wallet sealed quite a while ago). I know I won't play Star Citizen enough, if I live long enough to see it, to bother grinding to the top. I'm content, at the moment, to haul some stuff from and to some place in the verse, when I have a couple of hours to do so, and I live in the moment. With all the wipes we got in the past, it was fun at the beginning, but after the fifth time you grind for a Caterpillar, it gets stale, and you just buy one at the store. The ability to melt or CCU allows us to try, test and discard many ships, holding to what we like. Constant shifting in balancing and tweaking can make a ship underwhelming by night, and another, once unappealing, suddenly more interesting. I own in game less then 1/5 of what I pledged for, the rest locked into long CCU chains. I might sell everything, one day, and buy a single big asset, while grinding for normal stuff. Nothing is written in stone and I don't even care about what I own. What I keep telling to new player is to be wary and not fall to the hype. It is not worth supporting a company with ship purchases worth several times the price of a triple A, released game, when they shown, they still don't know what Physics, Mass and Flight model will be in game after 12 years in development. Chris Roberts talks about 1.0 and SQ42 features complete and I shake my head: that guy either is a Clown or a Conman; maybe both, knowing to lie to his backers. If I could enter SC today, I would just pledge for a starter pack and stay on the fence: if it fails, you won't get burned as hundreds of thousands supporters would.
You are not factoring in that most of people who has those big ship are playing for 5-8 years and have no intention of reatarting from scratch. All depends by how well and how replayable end game will be.
Feel like I've said this thousands of times, but maybe this will eventually pay off. Progression in Star Citizen = Reputation It has NEVER been about building up your fleet. Death of a spaceman.. you lose your rep. Strategic/skill error.. you lose your rep . You'll be able to purchase required ships for contracts usually before you have the rep to get access to them. Being a Citizen is rep .. from military service to pirate or anywhere in between. Rep Rep Rep.
I do agree with you in the most part, but as a long time MMORPG player and experienced Elite player, I'm way past the point of enjoying the progression of gaining cash, improving gear or ships, or whatever. It all comes down to enjoying time with your friends, random, or even yourself. Having a goal of some sort does help you motivate, but goals also makes you satisfied with the game so easily which is what the video is focused more on. I always tell anyone that is considering pledging for a ships if they just what the ship, or they what the gameplay that comes with it. If you just want the ship, you really shouldn't. Sounds counter intuitive, but the moment you buy that ship for owning pleasure, the ship is done for you.
It reminds me of the one guy who ground for the full year to get his Carrack. Later that month, there was a wipe. I'm more of a solo player here. I also started with Aurora and used it forever, every upgrade I could afford. Can't use a mic so less of a team option here, more of an explorer anyway. Eventually got to my Corsair, my poor mans space explorer/camper van, 4 Solo cabins with suit lockers in them. The grinding gets old after: repeatedly falling through the planet, tripping/dying, random kill, paper plate armor, and death by elevator. No fleet here, couple of ships...most nerfed...Corsair is the only ship to carry the NURSA. So many missions shift to getting my crap back, declaring victory, and moving on. I still like the game, but I don't have time for Warcraft extremism...I just want to have fun when I have time.
When the universe expanses, there will be a lot of other things to do with our limited available time as adults. Such as buying appartments in cities, new hangars at different location, customize them, build bases. Even if we have many ships, we don't have all of them, there are always new ones released to discover and no ultimate ship exists, as they are dedicated to specific activities. Personality, I have a small goal of purchasing my 890i in game and I will probably go through all the series. I hope that Roleplaying will be a thing and more interesting cooperative missions or small campaigns will be released as content in the future.
So, you're saying that I shouldn't value my 15,000+USD fleet? That it would've held more value if I slaved hours upon hours repeating monotonous quests for days, weeks and even months just to have that progress wiped, slaved and slaved again, then had THAT progress wiped yet again, till the game finally releases to v1.0? Then behold I can start the official umpteenth instance of monotonous slaving and slaving for every ship in my fleet FOR REAL this time?! Riiiiiiight? 🤔🙄 On Day One, I will already have my Pioneer and will be plopping down bases to sell across the verse. Then retreating to my 890Jump to watch the sun rise over a grateful Verse. If you have the time to do all of that slaving, then kudos to you. As for me, ... my time is far more valuable than performing monotonous video game quests/missions over and over or worse yet, finding an exploit to get to what I want. I have the funds. 💰😎
Yeah, on day 1 you will most definitely NOT be plopping down bases to sell all across the verse. Well unless you have also bought like 1 billion in UEC. I am not sure what the cost is to refuel the capital sized ships, but I know it is expensive. Repairs are also expensive. Buying the commodities needed to build an entire base is going to be expensive. So unless you also bought a lot of UEC, you are not going to be able to afford to hire the NPC crew to build bases, or buy the raw materials needed to build bases, or buy the fuel to even get to those base building locations. Aside from that, I agree with you. Hell, I didn't even like grinding away at super mario bros. when I had died for the 5000th time underwater. Start over at level 1 again. Yeah, no. Old games had a skill wall that usually popped up at some point and would require way more work to surpass than the last 5 levels had. Mobile games usually have a paywall that is similar. Play through the tutorial and upgrading is easy and can be done many times in a day. By the end of the first week of playing, you either are waiting 24 hours for upgrades to complete, or you can buy instant upgrades with credits. At first those credits are easy to acquire by just doing things in game. But then the cost skyrockets and the only way to ever get enough is to buy one of their loot chests for $2.99. I have a few ships in game, about $400 since 2016, so not bad at all on the yearly game expenditure front. If I was young and had nothing to do after work, sure, I may be able to grind for a week to get a connie. But I have real stuff to do that lessens my game time.
One of the biggest problems with this game is when you spend this money or even grind to get these ships most of them don’t even do what they’re designed to do like recently. I got a caterpillar and I can’t even run cargo with it because it’s just so busted my lightning has gotten nerve so bad that I can’t even justify the price even though I use credits
Some people don’t have the time to spend on the grind in game, after our daily grind at work, and spend the $ instead of the time, getting to the part of the game that are wanting to spend what time we do have in game!
Thanks much for your take! I totally understand. Actually had my fill of starting from scratch with 8 or 10 different characters in WOW through many versions. That said, I have a Rambler to do some minimalistic gameplay. An F7A for some fighter events. A Zues ES for exploring. A Merc for cargo and data running when it eventually comes out. A Terrapin for bunkers and such. You get the idea. Ultimately, I never get to play much. An hour or two here and there. I just don't have time for big grinds. WOW burnt me out on that.
The reputation system as gain more reputation you would get more business in that game loop possibly needing bigger ships or greater firepower then less complex missions or smaller demands of the player. The need to find the right ship vs having the right ship for the job. Does remove a small bit of gameplay the shopping phase that I mentioned
This is why for at least the first year that I was part of the project I only bought ships with money that I had already bought in game. Letting me have the experience of earning them while also supporting the development and getting to keep them through wipes.
After grinding my way up to a C2 in-game twice, days before a reset took them away, I just paid cash for one. The game finally releasing will simply be ANOTHER patch for the people who already put years into the game. No reason for them to have to lose everything.
how did it take so long? I started with the 40$ mustang ship and had like 20 million space bucks in less than a week and bought the ships i wanted. There are so many exploits to make money fast in the playtest
@@oddursigurdsson9637the true value of gameplay will be skill. Exploits will be fixed. Try zero to hero with that Mustang and understand the grind sucks. One you’ve done it a at least once. You’ll understand why people, like myself purchase ships to justify wasted time spent grinding over and over ( >5 yrs now). If you’re a new player, please enjoy the exploits, enjoy every ship you can. As time ticks on, it’s not about how many ships you have or own. You’ll eventually find the role you enjoy and begin fine tuning your skills.
tbh, old players have a fairly valid free pass to a degree. when things are actually "done", then they've probably played for years and are just going to want to skip that initial grind. there is a point where that will hurt you long run, though, because you will have nothing to really drive your desire to play. it will leave some players with nothing but a pointless ever expanding bank account that never goes down, because there is nothing to buy in game that you haven't paid for irl. i bought two big ships with LTI to cover some costs. ships i would probably never even be able to grind within 10-15 years. am hoping to play them off each other as a gameplay loop after some initial grinding with a Titan and Ranger CV. fill in fleet as i go.
i think a valid way to provide a good experience and a sense of progression to people with a "large hangar" would be to not make all ships available on launch .. treat all the ships in the "website-hangar" as if they were "just ordered" from the manufacturer .. who is now overwhelmed with orders and will take a bit of time to actually build all the ships and we the players get all kinds of job offers to go and collect resources .. on day one you get to choose one ship that will be delivered immediately (size limited to a starter ship) and all the other ships in your hangar need to get build and delivered over the course of maybe even months first .. you get to choose what gets priority .. but then build-speed depends on the ingame economy. --- but i really expect there to be some kind of progression that has only a more tangential connection to the ships we purchased. (Reputation, Housing and first and foremost base building .. i can also totally see them restricting access to entire regions and planets based upon reputation or affiliation)
So the item I paid full price for goes on layaway? That will never be accepted. The number of accounts that have $10,000 worth of ships is no where near the majority. The AVERAGE hangar value is like $135. The VAST majority of hangars are the $45 entry price. Just like real life, the 1%ers will be flying around in their 890s while the majority of us are flying our clapped out cutlass black.
I have read many similar comments, this game is not exactly a progression game; it is more of a open world exploration game. Yes, many people will have capital ships; but as a few other comments have mentioned, you need a crew and money to keep those capital ships going. You will not be able to just spawn in an Idris and launch as you want. You need to load boxes, supplies, ammo for the long journey and money to buy all of these; you need to have millions to be able to refuel after jumping to another sector. This game is a lot more complicated than just buying the ships in store and flying these in the verse. If you do not plan your journey before hand, you will be stranded or dead with the ship. Although everyone is excited for this game, it will not be an arcade game where you will easily respawn and jump in the game again for just 1 hour. Buying the ships might be a shortcut, but is definitely not the end to the gameplay. The game is living the verse, building your base, farming, trading; not just buying the ships.
In my opinion, having a variaty of ships to open up gameloops at release still is a starting point that will provide you with a meaningfull progression within that gameloop, i would think for me having to start with a sterter ship might end up anoying when you already played the game for years and got to play around with lots of stuff. Starting out with giant capital ships might leave some at a pont where they dont really have a progression path to chase, but when a big part of yor progression is tied to the reputationsystem maybe having big ships to start with wont be much of an issue at all
I enjoy flying the 400i. With the 400i Ill make money and collect a fleet. I want a terrapin, Apollo and 600i. I wouldn't want anything larger than a 600i but I'll help out on an orgs capital ship and pitch in credits
When the game first came out they stated quite clearly what they were going to do. During development, the game would have a pledge store with ridiculously over inflated prices for the pure purpose of funding the game. Spending money on ships in the pledge store is not a star citizen feature, its a star citizen development feature intended to let you donate large sums of money towards the development. They stated they intend to remove the pledge store upon release and all ships from that time will ONLY be purchasable ingame.
I 100% agree with this (and I’ve bought a ton of ships). I really hope that CIG adds some sort of progression system in game that you need to go through to fly these ships aside from just buying them. Similar to how a game like Eve you have to unlock a skill to fly bigger ships.
My plan is that once I upgrade my cpu Im gonna get back into sc, but I will upgrade from the drake cutter to the Misc Hull A. It is a nice starter that allows me to get to the other ships faster and doesnt take away the sentimental value in the other ships or the little bit of grinding it takes to get to them. Then theres the RSI Zeus mk 2. This one I'd really like to have permanently someday. That one is my version of your zentoro. The only difference between gta 5 online and star citizen that changes why I'd want to get other ships a little faster is that the wipes sometime make that grind feel useless.
The main issue as I see it is that most player activities in the persistent universe mode revolve around the acquisition of credits and the main sink for that money is ships. If you have the ships you want already, what will be motivating you to spend time in the game? Showing off will get boring quickly and the utility of the ships won't mean anything if you have no reason to make use of that utility. I guess it's all gonna come down to the content and content structure that the game winds up launching with. If CIG can add enough content that's engaging without a credit incentive to keep players coming back then I guess this problem won't come about.
Some of us have been playing for years and have suffered through many wipes where a new player will not really experience that. I’ll enjoy this game for many years as it progresses
Star Citizen needs a permission system to make ingame ship progression a thing. A multicrew ship made for a crew to work towards and operate isn't doable. You need the owner on to bring it out, and the crew can't even contact the ATC for you to land, depending on the patch. With an actual NPC crew the system makes much more sense, but it is still a massive auec grind, especially with ships being more expensive.
I think there's a misconception about ships = progression. As in real life, not everybody needs a fancy sports car and even if you have one. You don't drive it everywhere because there are scenarios where it's not practical and you might prefer a regular sedan or hatchback to go the supermarket. The same with industrial or cargo vehicles. You may be able to own a massive shipping vessel, but it's impractical for the last-mile transport that's why you still have trucks and smaller cargo vans and that doesn't mean the owner of the small cargo van is less successful than the shipping company owning the cargo ship. The key in SC, as of right now, is finding your niche and get the right tool for the job. Sometimes you'll need a bigger ship, but others the smaller one is the right choice. And even in those cases you don't need to own a larger ship if you have friends or are part of an org who can provide you the vessel and even a crew to run it.
In my hangar I have a Zeus Mk. 2 CL and and Galaxy and that's all I need. I take the Zeus if I play solo or with 1-2 friends and this will be my gameplay. The Galaxy ist just a Backup, that's why it also have LTI, because if more than 1-2 friends wants to join the game/our gameplay we can switch to the Galaxy and have tons of fun., especially if there are alot of players of our org wants to play together, we can take the Galaxy, and can switch the module, maybe we take the refinery, some people jump on Prospectors or Moles and go mining or we take the medbay and do some med gameplay. I really look forward to it.
This is YOUR opinion and you've got some valid points, not least of which is that if a 'whale' owns every ship, what is there to grind for? ... but I think everyone should own at least ONE favourite, Millennium Falcon ship ... the one that embodies the essence of your in-game character. For me, it was the Freelancer MIS - slow but solid and a bit of an unassuming badass. Owning a ship that encompasses the player's personality in the game, using REAL money to say 'this will be mine, regardless of what wipes may come', is not without value.
Is very easy to make SC 1.0 meaningful in literally hundreds of ways like EVE Online did. I think you forget you can lose a ship you paid for, or grinded for years in just minutes. Insurance will also be insane to make economic sense. Ofc there are other tools like introducing research, or expensive alien modules etc, that can't be reimbursed by insurance when your ship explodes.
regardless of how people play this game, or perceive it. one thing that is most notable in this game above all the other little things is its ships. and the more there are in variances and variety. will only continue to build and should do so for its entire life. even with progression in mind there are still for the time being, a lack of ships . for every role a ship could play in this game. some like mining have too few ships to pick from. and the ones we have for everything else from cargo to combat are all over the place between styles and capabilities, this is great. but in a space sim MMO kind of game there should absolutely be way more. which would ultimately make the experience of choice within progression a lot more fun. as well as more depth of choice in how you play. one thing to remember is that as this game is built it will also evolve and be drastically different or even unrecognizable in only a few more years. with how much faster content, stability, and the underlying tech involved to tie everything together. additional ships and the release of new systems will become exponential.
You have a valid point, which is why i only have C1 and hornet mk2. I want to earn something bigger in game eventually. But on the flip side I definitely don't want to start the grind from my mustang starter
I think when we can see how the in game economy is shaping up, it will give us an idea of running costs. I can see people having these big ships but not being able to afford to run them until they've unlocked missions that pay enough credits. I think this would make things much more realistic and a more level playing field from the get go. If CIG want us to have businesses and our own corporations in game, then im pretty sure they'll make every aspect of the game a collective grind. Will suck for strictly solo players but will encourage people to seek out orgs and friends to work with.
I agree that the journey is just as important as the destination. However, I’ve been a backer for a decade now and even though I limit myself to about $50 a year that adds up over that amount of time. I’m sure I’ll have a Carrack and a few smaller ships by the time the game launches but I fully intend to begin the game in a Cutty Black or something similar.
I went from the Aurora to Cutty Black to Spirit C1 and not I am waiting on the Zeus MK2. I did also recently get one of the hover bikes to get into and out of areas faster. I think the ship buying is a great way to fund the game. I feel there is kind of diminishing returns as we go into the future and you spend the money on really big ships. I think SC is very much a make your own fun experience. I did like starting from Cutty Black but loosing the engines got old. It would be nice to give back to the backers by making their pledges have more power since they can no longer be bought. Maybe go Shark Card route and buy UEC to get the ships.
It's definitely a good point, I personally don't like the basic grind at the start of the games, for example, in elite dangerous, getting to medium size ships was a pain, for that reason, I only bought zeus mk II, which will get me over the most basic grinding in small ship, but I am not planning to buy any other ship, so I can progress towards other bigger ships and goals, like vulture, carrack, etc, it's a lot about the mentality, but I can see myself enjoying the game much less if I had ship from every category from the start.
Base building and maintenance will imo be the end goal for most people, and a massive money sink ... also, I'm too old now, don't have as much time as I did when I was younger to grind for aUEC to buy cool ships. I have money from my irl job though and like to support this game (already a Grand Admiral). Furthermore, for the grind aspect, rep will also be taking a lot more time and effort to grind in the future, so there's always going to be something to do, ships bought with real money are just a little boost in accessibility and ease of play.
I think people buying large ships are in for a shock. In the case of the larger ships, the "Career path" doesn't have as much to do with earning the ship itself as it does earning the respect of others as an organizer...or being able to realize that as an owner you are bringing together others who do have charisma and organizational skills to create something larger that people want to be a part of. So I think there are going to be slots for people to actually live and be a part of the verse no matter what their personality or situation. I also think that some of the people that have purchased these larger ships will never utilize them... because they lack the understanding of all of the above and they THINK that they have just paid to win. They think this... only to find that they actually do have to put in the work to form a cohesive band of brothers... or put in the work to become a part of one such band.
Imagine when 1.0 release and CIG announce that all players will start with a choice between a handful of starter ships, and that all pledged ships will only unlock the ability to purchase them in game, with players not owning them having to unlock that ability through progression. That would be sick lol.
For me, i own a lot of large ships, but the reason for that is to share with others. I have a few small ones to start off but i know the larger ships would take waay to much grinding
Interesting points, but not sure I agree. For example, I bought my Hull A, but what makes it truly fun is putting the effort into flying around and actually making money hauling. Usage brings what might just be a cool looking digital art model to life. And my Pisces opens up a lot of fun game options and makes getting around easy, but it is actually using it that brings the value. In all these cases what actually brings the value is the immersive game environment in which ships can really do cool stuff that is fun and looks great in screen captures.
I totally get what you mean. This is just my personal preference and opinion. I don’t think that starting with almost nothing should be the case for everyone at all. It’s just what brings value to me:)
I've been playing this game on and off for more than 11 years, the joy you feel when you unlock/earn your ship, most of us felt when they could fly it for the first time.. if you want the experience like you described with GTA online.. you should not play the game at all now and wait for the release.. but I do t expect that to be happening anytime soon ... Maybe in another 10 years. .. maybe
my pledge was a cutter now I am planning on getting an Zeus CL and I will stay on that until 1.0, I will be buying a ton of skins and mechs my only exception is a medium salvaging ship since I like that game loop.
Everyone starting with starter ships would have a very short-term effect. Only the people starting on release would experience the effects because people will quickly progress so people starting at a later date would have starter ships while others who started earlier would have more advanced ships. Just let people buy the ships they want.
I think progression in SC won't be ship dependent. Hopefully it will be based on robust reputation progression gameplay. If NPC AI will be as sophisticated as I hope based on prior statements, progression could be based on reputation and skill acquisition. If AI can have short- and long-term goals and have memory of the events that transpire in their lives, then some very powerful gameplay experiences could be possible. If you can distinguish your character by gaining abilities and perks through the relationships you form with NPCs, and the skills you acquire with planned gameplay systems like crafting, you can build unique skill sets that can become valuable to other players and NPC in the game. There should be skill progression within the game as well. Say if you are a bounty hunter and through meeting an NPC and building a good relationship with them, in time they may teach you a new takedown or joint lock that is useful for apprehending bounties with hand-to-hand combat. The more you perform or practice it the more effective it becomes until you can master it. The course of the relationship could take time and require you to work through a variety of missions together etc... where you earn the confidence of the person for them to share it with you. Think of Beatrice Kiddo from Kill Bill learning the 5 Point Palm Exploding Heart technique from Pai Mai and all that it took for her to do in order for him to teach her the technique. This mechanic could work in a variety of way for a variety of perks and skills for different career paths. Working as a crew member with a particular NPC pirate of time may lead to him asking you to help him to craft an experimental breaching charge that can cut into hulls in the vacuum of space. So, he invents super-thermite breaching charges that contains an oxidizer so it burns in space. There could be missions where you have to acquire the parts and materials needed and a secluded location to work in. Eventually through whatever crafting mechanic they implement you now learn how to make it. With this skill you can sell these breaching charges on the black market, keep the knowledge to yourself, or sell/ teach your org or gang. But with that knowledge you become more valuable to have on a pirate crew. This is just an example of the type of gameplay that could make progression fun, immersive and rewarding. Combine this with the death of a spaceman mechanic and you have a character that you are invested in and do not want to lose thus making your decisions more meaningful. Having a bunch of ships won't be the motivation to progress. Making connections and acquiring skills will be what everyone strives for.
altough I totally agree with you on the subject of "satisfaction with progression". For me in Star Citizen roleplaying also is a big factor, and your backstory wouldn't really have to been played trough imo. so yes, from a "gamers perspective" progression is part of that and you should def work your way up. but from a "role play perspective" working your way up for a gameplay you actually play the game for feels like a long grind. Also, I want to mention, some of the ships you name in your progression need a relative big crew, so it would make sense to buy ships together. but unfortunally that is not a feature (yet). I think it's hard to find players that just want to crew and solely crew, and will take a 10% cut when you take a 50% cut just to earn back your ship.
Agree! Best motivation for playing is to earn new items. I dislike idea of having everything on start. I think they will try to balance it by changing peroids and costs of insurances.
There is a reason, I have limited my Pledge purchases to a single ship Manufacturer. For me, that is Drake, b/c they are the most jack of all trades and cover most bases. This way, I can leave all the specific ships and better in situation ships to buy with ingame currency. So I'll have things to grind and progress towards. Also, why I am not pledging for ships larger than the Corsair. anything that is a big multicrew ship, I'm leaving for progression.
@@_lewtz I like that idea! I’m keeping my Zeus and using that as my “go to” ship. Something about working towards ships provides a little bit more value to me.
CIG haven't removed the value, they have, ultimately, provided two investment options. Both share the same thing. _Time_ . Either by offsetting income, or spending time in game. Situations vary and a one-size-fits-all mentality is quite inflexible. However, the entire argument might perhaps be put in the context that _nobody actually owns anything tangible_ regardless of either method. We are, ultimately, talking about high resolution jpeg trading in a 'world' that may be switched off decades from now. The longevity of the game I think is more important than well-intention narrative that "only progression in game" is meaningful. I'd argue it wasn't the progression that was meaningful (it seldom is) so much as the experience was crafted to make it meaningful. If we get well crafted experiences, how people come upon some of their ships, should be the least important thing, not the most.
You have a fair point but, I was on gta online day 1. Rare was the update I couldn't buy everything even without discounts. Thanks to just playing the game. Even when the best free money was only hitting armored trucks from banks or, (which I think are still MIA) Selling the Sentinel that Spawns near the first top dollar apartment. On Eclipse IIRC I avoided the Zentorno by putting extra miles on my T20 (IIRC). Back day one the Entity was basically the top dog. I still have a Jester too, cause it's fun to drive and brakes well. As much as you may have a point about progression. Much more important to me. Is the fun shared with friends and gamers, along the way. The journey is the fun.
+1, tho problem is with whole conception of missions and grind. I would see it more like, very high priced missions but more complex. Like mini campaigns with some random events and chained missions. Less grind, more adventure. Just swap time spent on repetitive actions that give small prizes for few, longer and maybe harder, but much more profitable.
It depends on how progression is handled in the game. If CIG is smart progression will not be about grinding a bigger ship anytime you want to access more high end content. Take hauling for example, having a big ship will leverage the scale of what you can do ofc, but they could also provide missions where you are transporting a small quantity of high value stuff, or where speed matters for example, where a big ship is useless. There are many ways to make this game not to rely on big ships 100% of the time.
this is something i thought was missing from cargo. A race essentially and maybe even a checkpoint style with a couple different deliveries. It would be hilariously awesome to see a guy running full steam through babbage carrying apackage yelling about he was a second late or something like that. also we need an in game cb style radio that can be used in the ships
IF you look at how hauling and trading is now in 3.24. A large cargo ship can haul more in a single trip but it takes longer on each end to load and unload. Where as a smaller ship can make the same run multiple times in the about same time span so it evens itself out.
A great point of view that I know many people share. I think the value of the ships depends on a pilots vision of gameplay overall. I have been around since the kick starter and have spent more then a few $$$ though the Polaris is the largest ship I will buy. For me personally, I'm here for the exploration and bounty hunting. I also think many will have "Zero to Hero" accounts to scratch that grind game play. I personally would love to see the store wiped out of existence upon the 1.0 launch which at one time was the plan. However, looking at the size of CIG and the crap ton of work to come well after 1.0 becomes reality there is simply no way they could remove the store and survive short of a fairly substantial monthly subscription. Here's to the future!
I agree! It really is up to the pilot and what they want to do. All of this is referring to my own vision of the game, and I think it’s totally up to the individual to find what is important to them. Thank you for the comment, I appreciate your perspective!
I absolutely agree. And the people who complain about having to grind for something because blah blah blah... Imagine you went fishing. Fishing isnt an instant gratification activity but a lot of people with jobs, kids, etc. Still find time to go fishing even when they dont catch any fish. Now Imagine one Saturday morning you go fishing with your buddy. You get all set up and your buddy says, i dont feel like waiting to catch fish on this stupid hook, i went and bought a giant net that can catch all of the fish at once without any effort. You'd look at your buddy like he was crazy. Going fishing isn't just about catching the most fish the fastest. Its about the journey. Getting up early even though you're tired from busting your ass all week. Driving through the early morning fog. Stopping to get coffee and snacks. Finding a really good spot. Watching the sun rise. The smell of the morning dew on the grass. The sights, the sounds. Grinding is about the investment of your time to get better at something you enjoy while progressing through the different levels of the game. Most people i know who own a fleet of 1000s of dollars worth of ships don't even play the game. They say they dont have anything to do because they already paid for all of the ships they want. Well at that point you might as well just skip going fishing with your buddy, grab some frozen fish and some beer that you paid for and get whatever level of satisfaction you can muster up from it at home alone.
I hate fishing! But do I love to eat fresh fish. So I give it try once in a while, hoping for that good dinner tonight. Haven't had much success. Your analogy is so spot on though. Oh, I do own a large fleet. And yes it does ruin a reason to play as often as one could. I'm hoping for in depth exploration of the star systems that are going to be very slow to release over the years. And the grind to support that life style. Salvaging is my hope to do that.
It's health and good if obtaining ships isn't actually the main form of progression in Star Citizen. Ships can't really be the main form of progression if they are being sold on the website. The problem is the game has nothing else right now. The game might have to throw ships at us like they are guns in a looter shooter game that need to leveled up and modded out. ...Sort of easy to access and get to a relatively competitive state but long and hard to min max completely. Ships sort of have to be square one now ...Ship sales aren't going away even after release (They've have basically confirmed this in so many words now though it would totally go against my assumption of what the game was going to be on launch). When CIG pitched this project I knew there were like 4 or 5 ships you could obtain right away if you were an early backer who supported the game with a substantial amount of money to get the project off the ground. I never really imagined every ship was going to be sold, that they were all going to more expensive than stand alone AAA game, there would be hundreds of them, or that this would be completely necessary to game afloat.
Don’t worry about people having lots of ships or campital class ones. CIG have now perfectly made clear ships are going to require upkeep, multiple player crew to run optimally, and the bigger the ship the greater these requirements, just to name a few. Take an Idris for example. That thing is going to burn a hole in your uec wallet just in fuel. Then there’s ammo, player and box crew wages/shares, perhaps future docking costs, hefty insurance, super expensive components and repairs, maintained fighters ect ect. I shared same concerns as you but it’s clear they’re not going to be a problem, only a problem for the whales who bought all these things, especially if they don’t have an org.
I have 2 accounts. One is my pledge account and the other is my grind account that started with just a starter ship. I use my grind account when I get the urge to make the grind. I really enjoy that I can play either way.
New to the channel & this is an interesting video, so I liked & subscribed. This being said, as a long time backer of SC, from my perspective, 1 of the best aspects of Star Citizen is that there is such thing as truly end game objectives universally, such as with the vast majority of mmo games. Each player has the ability to find things they enjoy doing & explore those aspects of the game. While larger ships might be able to do something better than a smaller version, it's usually at the cost of needing more players to help as well as having the funds to get that larger ship running how that player prefers. So there will still be some degree of progression for everyone. For some, they don't need progression, because the game itself is the escape from whatever bothers them in RL. Don't get me wrong, your perspective is absolutely valid and will probably apply to most. I just believe that as it's further developed, SC will be able to be enjoyed by almost anybody that enjoys games that deal with life in a distant future.
Hello! Thank you for the comment and support it does really mean a lot. I like your perspective, and I agree with it very much. I know the title of video gives a more harsh vibe to my opinion, but I certainly feel very similar. I’m excited because once/if we get the star citizen we have been waiting for, everyone’s going to have a place in the verse. Regardless of the constant ship sales and what not.
That's a good point, thank-you for sharing. ;-) My main incentive for buying ships is to support the game, but I've limited my purchases mainly to solo ships (hoping for AI cards for turrets) or a three-person crew (Pilot, CoPilot/Engr., Gunner). I plan to have my cargo ships spread out at the various stations and/or cities, most of my fighter ships at MIC-L1 and the various specific use ships (Prospector) stored at a station nearest its use? I'll fly my Pieces or similar craft as a shuttle to those stored ships or do P&D jobs with it?
I think alot of people are kind of missing the point. You have a very valid point. Sure there is a certain percentage of players that will simple play for the sake of playing. However, I think most people need something to work towards and by pre selling everything alot of people wont see a point to get a bunch of the ships because there wont be any real point. Same thing is happening in a different way in ED. They release the Type-8 for example, everybody I know had zero interest in it because it simple doesnt really feel a role for older players... It is a concern , to defeat this problem they will have to continue to make ships after the release... Then a bunch of people will just buy those too and slowly lose interest... I dunno, it is an issue and I have no idea how they are going to fix it. I am cutting myself off from buying anymore ships. I have an upgrade to the liberator and a ship in every category as a base point but I can see where this will never end... I would much rather see them focus on adding solar systems . Its a freaking space game that has 1 solar system lol. Next year you might have 2... God knows when you will see another.......
I think for the backers (myself included), the issue of progression is a little irrelavent up to the point that you have already achieved in the alpha. There will be more ships and vehicles to aim for after the release of the game, which will satisfy the ongoing evolution of the verse. I also think that having a select few players bouncing around in crazy ships day 1 is going to push new players to aim higher, be it from awe of the Odyssey that flew over them as they looked up for the first time, or spite at the Polaris that just atomised their dinky Aurora as it left atmo.
It’s a simple solution but just having “legacy server” and “live server” where real money ships can only go to legacy server. That way even if you don’t own ships you can go to that one and even if you do own ships you can still go to the live server to get that meaningful progression. Kind of like retail wow vs classic.
I see SQ42 as the game to beat. I see SC as the game to play with friends. I don't have time to grind, so I'm happy to be able to help fund the game and get rewarded for that. I do have a second starter account for a zero to hero run if that ever entices me.
I can see both sides. The ones who have the cash to burn and want to enjoy the time they do have to play. On the other hand they will miss a lot of content they may see as mundane or repetitive by skipping a good chunk of the game, and keep in mind we still have maybe a fraction of whats to come but if thats the way they want to play thats fine. I wish they would have kept massive capital ships from the store. The real issue in my opinion is going to be how launch goes with all these massive orgs. People say being poor at release is going to prevent everyone from operating these massive ships, I disagree. While solos will struggle yes, some orgs have thousands of members and are going to be SWEATY, as soon as they earn even 10k each, they will pool it for a massive cargo haul, rinse and repeat just like what happens every wipe now. Hell if we start with only 5k uec, a 1000 member org can pool 5mil for a cargo haul. I give it 2 hours before there is a fully operational fleet with multiple capital ships. Not to mention they will be able to instantly flood every system playing dora the explorer, finding all the cool shit before the normies even get a chance to leave the first planet or system. They could even lock it down so you cant even go there. Its going to be interesting how the first week goes. I just hope they have some sort of rep system, where you might have to fly X amount of time with a smaller size ship in order to rank up and earn the right to fly a bigger ship. People dont come out of flight school and go straight to a 747-B or AC-130. I dont give a shit what youre roleplaying as, how much youve spent, or how many hours you have in the alpha, thats not how that works, you should have to earn it.
It depends on scope. from my view as a fighter pilot, it's not as simple as say hh pwns, each ship is more a tool and depends on use case and scope. so there is and isn't progression.
the best microtransactions post launch would probably a select few ships and cosmetics so say ships up to 200 and everything post that only at events if even that
Alot of people say they dont have time to play, honestly tho, nothing justifies spending over $300 on a game, it wrong and we have to be honest with ourselves (i did it too), chances are, youve never spent this much on literally any other videogame. Whats sucking us in is the fact that ships get wiped every reset, and the actual in game cost/ grind time to purchase ships isnt worth the time you will have that ship for (between wipes). AND everytime a new concept comes and goes, you miss out on a few benefits (LTI/ giftable "sellable"/ original concept) all in a very simple purchase. Its FOMO, and yes actually a very small bit of missing out on the sell side. I hope there will be limitations to the store as well, cut out concierge benifits, and or limit ship sells to medium and smaller.
I think for a solo player playing Starcitizen, they should 100% consider ship progression as a game loop, and should avoid ship upgrades if they are not sure what game loop they wan to go down. I will say there are already well-established orgs with hundreds even thousands of players and they already have plans for how they want to operate in the vers, and that ship heavily plays into those plans. Now I saw this theory that to try and fill in the large ships and fill in the vers. When we have larger server meshing/servers we might see two new pledge types as they slowly remove ships from the Pledge store. One would offer the game with a starter pack that has no ship, and the other would be free-to-play with ship & Mission limitations. But of course that's just a rumor. I am sure much thought is going into how ships will be managed in the future. I will say ships will skyrocket on the grey market once the pledge store is gone.
That’s interesting, I’ve heard of people wanting a no ship game package and I think that’s a cool idea. I would love if CIG provided more incentive to working with other players and crewing up in ships.
I feel the same, which is why I’m waiting for the full game release with the Titan. Even if the game offers more than just buying ships, I want to experience the thrill of working towards owning one-like saving up for a car instead of someone gifting it to you. Sure, the 'easy way' feels nice, but earning it is far more rewarding.
Point about people having their ships at launch, there will already be a vibrant player world for new players to be a part of, Ambulance services will exist things like that, the thing that makes Star Citizen Star citizen will be going from day one. My pledge ship is a Freelancer max, I can make enough money for loads of other ships in a couple of days with that. New players are coming in to all sorts of things happening right away, rather than 100's of people all trying to do the same things at the same places. The people who have capital ships are the people who are needing them for their massive organisations that they will probably be looking to recruit an influx of new players to. There are positives to it.
No I have already done this... I have been playing the Mini game called 'First Day Fleet" this whole time... on day one I will begin my life in the verse and that will not be grinding for my first ship... When the game starts I will not be playing the grind for ships game I will be exploring the verse looking for all the cool hard to find trinkets and treasure...
In 2012 into 2013 I basically thought we were just giving CIG our $60ish dollars (and sometimes more if we just wanted to support what CR was doing) up front so they wouldn't need a publisher and they would give us a fun game. Supporting CIG felt like doing the Lord's work to make PC gaming great again and we going to show it to companies like EA. Nobody really had any reason to suspect we'd be where we are today. That everything would be sold and even with large percentages of the player base providing thousands of dollars the future of the game would still be unsure. ...I guess the project still exists now though and even if it would have been green lit by a traditional publisher (which it wouldn't have been) it would have been long canned by now. So maybe the the thousands of dollars individuals put in still isn't a total waste?
Like your video. Although with different opinions, I was able to understand your viewpoints. In my opinion, the advantages of people that bought ships vs people that did the grinding will be short lived at best if any. I can not speak for all but this are at least my opinion. 1. Most people bought ships mostly have some disposable income and want to gain a small advantage at star because they know if the game will ever come out, they will not have the time to grind to earn the endgame ship that they dreamed off. 2. A lot of people that have the most disposable income are middle aged people that wants to play the game casually. 3. Whatever advantage they do gain will be short lived since most are casual players, most likely much older, slower reflexes, etc. This is me, when I backed the game I was in my late 30s. Now I am 50.
Valid opinion and it does cut out some grind but it’s not as bad as you think. If u ever played Eve online or other huge expansive games where you can’t simply take all your assets anywhere working towards multiple ships all fitted out and ready to go becomes necessity. If your a combat player you will want to eventually have multiple ships ready to cuz if you die with one you can get back into action fast rather than waiting for reclaiming and refitting modules. Same thing with mining, you may want to work towards multiple ships ready to go based on what minerals you want to mine. Now consider when SC had 2, 3 and 4 systems and beyond you’re gonna want have to establish your fleet of ships at those systems too so u don’t have to transport them every time you want to move between system. So I think there still opportunities to work towards unless you spent $160k buying 4 sets of large ship package 😂
I do the whole progression thing even though I bought all my favorite ships with my own money. I usually save enough money to buy it then give it away when I unlock the ability to buy it in game.
Everything you said is true, with one main caveat: This game has been in development for 12 years and by 1.0, will be close to 15, if not 20. With that said, most of the OG backers are too busy to grind and would rather invest a few dollars to skip the grind and get to endgame with our friends, since, at the end of the day, you can't play those big ships alone.
honestly, I have a Zeus MK ES/CL and also a syulen, to me i think the enjoyment in the game doesn't come from the ships themself. even though, yes that is a large part of it. I think the more enjoyment for me is the game play itself, because this game manages to make vehicles simply just feel like tools. that's all they are, and it manages to grab it perfectly, and for a solo player like me who only really plays alone, sure grinding a lot of money for the super big ships is fun, but I don't really need them, I have almost all the ships in the game with AUEC, and I don't use half of them even, and they just sit in my hangar to rot and do absolutely nothing, reclaimer gameplay is boring to me, hammerhead crewing just isn't fun sometimes because you either fight too many or too little, never a right amount. But i get why people wanna go up and up and up and up. And i also get why some people just wanna start from the get go, most people buy these ridiculously big ships for orgs and clans, but I think on average, most players who play alone a lot of the time or don't really have groups, tap out at around $350-$400 max, because they know their limits and what ships they would need or want and know they probably cant run super large ships alllll the time. maybe with AI crew that will change, I don't know. I understand your reasoning and how i think/hope the whole pledge store works is, after 1.0 they get rid of the ability to pledge ships themselves, and maybe just paints, gear and decor and things. Because I imagine they would want you to grind, just like you want people to grind. but some have already spent millions on this game and getting rid of their millions spent on launch would be diabolical
i plan on starting with a c1 spirit solid starter solo cargo runner and i can work up to many bigger options that will be available and if something happened and i lost it all at least id have my c1 to fall back on.
If you ever played Eve online, and in this aspect sc is like Eve, this video would never been made. Let me explain. In sc, if you have some ships in one System, scattered over multiple bases and now find yourself in a sys 3 jumps away, you have no way to get your ships together but to go back again and get them one after another (getting ships reclaimed, you have to pay the insurance fee and waiting for the delivery alot). Maybe for a utility capital, sure, but combat ships will be bought and outfitted in the system you are in. There is no such thing es ship progression in sc. Its all about to have a tool at a right Time in a right place. Example, you have an outfitted explorer, fitted fighter and also pinnacle optimised miner and hauler, all neatly gathered on one base. Now go, explore a lucrative mining location some jumps out, go back now, change ships, loose Time, come back to a mined out husk of a rock. Fly back, get wrecked by pirates. Now get your fighter to counter those, ah, you are spawned in a major Hub 1 jump from your Base,but there is no ship of yours in the Hangar, so bye a fast shuttle you would need only to get to your place and be left forgotten in the hangar, because of fullfilled purpose. Now grab your fighter, fly to the system you were downed in previously, lol, to get your sweet revenge, but no, Pyro in between, you have to refuel 10 times to cross this system alone, on a route of now 5 systems, because that shortcut space hole shortcut has expired and collapsed right before your eyes previously. Now tell me, you are contempt with having one starter ship and go progressing, when a hull e has its flyby right in front of you. By the way, that would be me, on day one, hauling supply of ship parts, base building materials and enouh ammo to have fun, beeng escorted by a carrier and my mates in some nasty interceptors. Ah, and the one, mining out your precious rock, would be also me, because my explorer is stored on that carrier.... fly safe, bro ❤
I’m pretty sure it’ll have the same value, as some of us have been “grinding” this project for more than 6 years. Meaning, we had our progression to get the ship and the game. Heck, since the game was announced I got married, had a child, moved abroad, etc. 🤣 In fact, it will be the new players that’ll miss the actual grind / progression, and they might get any ship they want in a year or two tops. And that’s without any frustrating 30K loops, falling in elevator shafts, etc.
I agree with you in the most points ✌️ I myself have a pretty big fleet but still own solo ships (like my Hull A) when I play alone but since last year I am in an active org where we play 1-2 per week and it will be nice to have big ships for around 10 people to play form the get go. My gameplan is pretty industrial centered and for the other gameloops i might not find that interesting my plan is to earn these ships ingame
I believe that the early-game grind will be fun, even for those with starter ships. As those with bigger, multi-crew ships will be in need of players to operate those other components. Personally, (hot take ik) I think the game should be limited f2p or have a cheaper 5-20$ 'certificate' that allows someone to play the game without a ship. Star citizen is heavily leaning towards large crews, communities, and teamwork. So much so that it feels useless to buy a starter ship when I will spend my time using the turrets & tractor beam on my buddies' taurus, loading cargo, doing ship repairs, base repairs, and all the other things that don't require flying or owning a ship. Owning a huge ship is nice, but being a solo flyer with a capital ship won't get you as far as a team with a medium ship.
The game for me is about living amongst the stars. Building a base and having a steady cash flow. Ships are just tools to achieve that. In the end when it does release I’ll keep what is most sentimental to me (1-3 ships) the rest if not maybe all I would melt for 1 ship to hold the value of my entire fleet. That ship will encapsulate my entire journey as a backer. The fun of the game will be trying to “live” in the verse and obtain as many ships as possible even working for the ones I melted that I previously owned.
I love that idea! I really enjoy the possibility of that being a reality for this game (even if it’s a long ways away).
This is pretty much what I did. I only have two ships pledged and may only do one or two more. But I chose them for the way I want to play. I may collect others using in game money but I'm mostly concerned about what I can do with the ships.
I hope it does release some day. My fear is that there’s no financial incentive to do so. To clean up and refine what’s already in would take years. Then there’s the ship list and the various sectors and flight mechanics etc etc.
imagine thinking there wont be a wipe when (if) it releases
I'm too old to enjoy endless grinding for something in a game. I enjoy playing and exploring from the get-go :)
Ever explore for a starfish?
Same. I had much more fun using the vehicles in GTA than grinding for them. Same will go for SC... if I stay.. game is going to shit.
Not only that, but the most fun aspects of the game earn the least amount of money like bounties and bunkers. Boring stuff like mining and trucking make WAAYYYY more money!
@@strategygalactic >Ever explore for a starfish?
Yes. There are actually starfish in Hurston lakes. Did you know it? I saw them while riding my pledged hoverbike on the lakes in the bright Stanton sun.
I left ED because of grid. Now SC is netting pay for missions and intentionally slowing gameplay. I enjoy NMS, but the flight and color palettes are not the most appealing. I'm considering switching my spending to DCS, though my heart is one of a space pilot. I fear SC will have elements of a lot of great games, but they will only be mediocre in SC.
Most players in SC are adults. As adults with full time jobs, families, etc. they do not have time tk grind at a game to get a ship to grind to build a base, etc. You either grind at work to have discretionary income to buy an advanced ship, or grind in the game.
We have ships, now we need a game.
I agree 100%. The problem is that many people, like me, don't have much time to play, which makes it impossible to get a starting ship and evolve at a pleasant speed, which gives us the feeling that we are evolving over time. That's why I preferred to spend a little more money and have a more pleasant experience, from my point of view.
I totally get that and I am in a similar position! I decided to upgrade to the Zeus rather than stay at aurora. Doing this let me stay at one ship but also lets me have so much still to work for, without being bottlenecked by a starter ship like the aurora.
Getting started out sucks but luckily the star citizen community is very nice. When I first started playing I posted on Reddit asking if someone can hop in a game and show me what to do, we did every type of mission and let me use his vulture. On my first play session cos of the kindness of others I had made around 1.6million
@@LK32019yeah I had someone gift me enough aeuc to buy an 890 jump a few months before a planned wipe. Was dope. Community is pretty sick
I would want to argue, that the problem is not that you don't have enough time to play the game, but that the progression in the game feels meaningless and too slow. If it would be able to earn your dreamship in a reasonable amount of time, I think more people would want to go "zero to hero" then now
@@Tschenggo I agree. I think a lot of people think the 1.0 grind will be just like how it is now. Which certainly could happen but assuming it becomes more meaningful and fun as it should be, the time you spend earning money towards a ship will be enjoyable.
You make some good points in this video. It got me thinking, what if eventually CIG ran two Persistent Universes? One universe where all is normal and you have your pledge ships. And a second, separate universe where nobody has access to their pledge ships except starter ships. All ships would have to be bought and earned in-game, and that universe could wipe at the end of each year so everyone starts fresh again for the next year/wipe.
I'd be ok with that. Honestly, I am thinking of just running Zero to Hero when it wipes fresh. I believe playing in a universe where everyone has a starter ship feels a bit silly lol. I want my world to already feel lived in. I want to work for other players and earn credits. I have a $600 hangar value but I don't care if I keep it or not. Maybe give me some cool gear to appreciate my funding so I can show off and I am happy.
There is also the posibility to add "entry requirements" for ships, so people that have their 890 Jump may need a high repution with Origin Jumpworks....you still get your ship without paying for it in came with cash, but when you start you still have a progression you need to go through. Or building on your idea of the two universes, you could also have a "Tutorial-Universe" where everyone starts in an Aurora and once you progressed to a certain point you can go into the persistent universe where you have your pledged ships or for the people that didn't pledge for more than a starter they could keep the ship they "earned" in this tutorial universe....maybe something like a Freelancer/Cutty Black/Zeus/C1
I had this idea a while ago, and it would be a perfect solution except you’d both split the player-base and increase the server costs. It could very well still be worth it but they’d have to do a serious valuation
I am kind of old, I work 60 hours a week, I have a wife... If I get 3 hours a week to game, that is a lot. I expect by 1.0 the days of earning a constellation in one day will be long gone. Probably take 100-200 hours of grinding. I don't have that kind of time. I want to PLAY the game, not make it a second job. My hangar is like a toolbox, with the right tools for the right jobs. If I want to race with certain friends, I have 2 or 3 racers. If I want to live out my "Dark Matter" of "Firefly" fantasies.. I a Carrack that the gang can take out... if I want to try to be an ace star fighter pilot... I have got a few fighters. IF our org goes to war. I (will soon) have a Polaris. and if I want to make money... I have several sized Cargo Ships from Nomad to BMM.
I don't have to work for 5 years to finally be able to play the game.
You did touch on a key factor... a lot of people have a big ship and big dreams, and then they will start out with 5000 spesos like everyone else. and won't be able to afford to run that ship. that is the big leveler. unless they start buying UEC on the website.
You can buy credits, Mr. Paragraph.
@@strategygalactic if you'd actually have read his paragraph you'd have seen that he did mention that you can buy uec
@@Gabriel-rx2kl " @strategygalactic if you'd actually have read his paragraph you'd have seen that he did mention that you can buy uec"
You forgot to tell them it's in the last line. Without that they'll just faceroll the keyboard.
@@strategygalactic "You can buy credits, Mr. Paragraph."
You mean the thing they wrote in the very last line: ". unless they start buying UEC on the website." ?
Yeah, they did that.
I have a small fleet, but I still roleplay as a broke kid in his dad's old Titan running box missions and occasionally smuggling drugs.
I think your assumptions have a major flaw: you see bigger ships as progression, simply because that is the only kind that currently exists currently in this *very* unfinished Alpha.
Will every player *ever* get past a solo ship? Own a capitol ship they bought with real money, *and have the crew to make it effective?*
Not only unlikely, but flat out ridiculous.
The value of any ship in this game is how effective and *fun* it will be. Show me the solo player that will ever have fun in a capitol ship alone? Fly that incredibly large, slow, cargo laden and expensive to run ship without an org (that means friends that play together.... MMO kinda needs that dynamic to thrive)? When a single player in a decent high end fighter can trash them?
Of course not.
The value in any of it is their usefulness to enable fun. Like all MMOs, style is the real endgame. And this will be no different. Cosmetics will always sell better than ships because in the end most players won't have a *use* for most ships.... but they will for looking (and therefore feeling) cool.
Right now that doesn't sell, strictly because gear can be lost so very easily. Why buy something you are guaranteed to lose?
I think most people will invest in their daily driver... and not much else. The majority of players have just their starter, and pray for a no-wipe update. But having some of the bigger stuff out there won't harm the game. In fact it will make it better, since those with the big toys will always prefer to have people who want to crew *as* crew. Meaning more options will exist for things to do.
Want to specialize in engineering gameplay? Fighter? Boarding? Trading (and the security for them)? Solo exploration? Team based Exploration?
The Terrapin might end up being a great ship for a couple people to do that loop ...but the Carrack just too much effort. Or a style of the gameplay loop these people don't like as much, while these other people like more. Or some that prefer Hauling on medium to small ships, preferring the solo life, doing smaller high risk or illegal cargo... while this other group of people like functioning as a convoy, backing each other up... and yet a third group prefers the biggest ship they can run, like maybe an Ironclad, fully loaded with people, a couple escorts, working in safety, but expensive bulky cargo. Prime pickings for pirates... who need to work together, almost military style. And the "off grid" crowd is another point of view (and differing ship needs) entirely.
And that's all just basic sandboxy stuff, without any actual story content involved. And none of it requires everyone to have a ton of ships. Just the basics... with some orgs having some extra stuff available to suit their most enjoyed gameplay.
Your view on "value" misses the point. Not everyone will spend real cash. Those that already have deserve to keep what their belief in the vision inspired them to invest. And if the game actually does hit release (and if it is as good as we believe it will be) then that small percentage that spent real money to get the big ships now will be an even smaller percentage of a much larger group of players that will have options available if they join up with them, crewing their bigger ships, escorting those teams, learning from older players... together.
And don't bother bringing out the old tropes of AI server blades and hired NPC crew... we all know they will never be effective, or fun. A solo player can take and capture a fully crewed NPC Idris. That lack of effectiveness won't change just because a player owns it. Real crew is fun, and effective. Anything less just won't be as much. But even these choices do need to eventually be in-game.
Options are good. Even ones we wouldn't "waste time on" personally. Every Player's experience will be different.
(edited for typos/grammar)
Well from what I know and read, the ships come into play with crewing them and maintenance! You can buy the ship but in the game, you won't be able to fly it out of hangar or afford the replacement if something bad happens! Parts just alone will cost you an arm and a leg. And with engineering, fire, and oxygen maintenance coming online this is the start of that! You need a crew for big ship to keep your components healthy while you fly it! Smaller ships like the F7C will require money, you have to have a foundation of income in order to fly the next tier ship to support it. So in my opinion everyone has a fair strat! Now CIG does sell credits, UEC but, wants again you have to have a foundation or that will dwindle down. I bought my Idris so I can walk around it and never leave the dock and simile, I kid, I kid, I bought it because I want to find a small fleet and group of friends and not crazy organized fleet who don't have one who can make use of one in their fleet!
Thank you for the comment and I appreciate your perspective! I hope CIG really pulls through with the need for a crew with larger ships. And I totally respect the way you look at it!
Curious, how hard was it to get that and when did you get it?
If ever you want to build something yourself, org, group of friends that become more than that. Feel free to reach out you own a incentive. Cant tell much about plans. But let say goal is to avenge the sackings and toy with king ships. 🙃Reach for the sky and fall like a fiery angel or bask in the glow of glory. For the UEE!😅
As to topic, why i think difficulties in getting ingame, or money makers are a priority if one are to get something on the pledge store. Stepping stones. Many things will also be locked behind reputation and or possibly different space sectors and their reputation again.
I think the biggest Issue I have with your statement is how you see the ships. While there's certainly a huge grinding aspect removed giving a lot of people/orgs a huge speed up in theory yet its hard to apply it as soon as you account for maintaining such large ships. Military ships for example are most likely to be so god damn expensive in maintenance that you would never consider bringing it out just to slap your dick around. Money aside ... the personnel for them which I think will be hardest to just ... get together. Meaning while in technicality a lot of people have such a ship only rarely will it be used that much. Maybe at the start everyone will bring them out but any nature of game will have it slow down eventually. People will realize that sometimes getting a ship half the size gets you double the profits.
This obviously comes down to the each individual what they consider to be their true goal in this game. So ofc when you just want to mine and live out life in a space trucker type of simulation then I can see that this removes a lot of drive for such a person. Yet on the other hand for someone that's into conquering and building out a system like EVE has it (I know heavy cope here) its just a tool that you get ... a bit faster then the rest and will most likely not have a large impact on the overall game in the longterm. They had to get the funding so I can't really say there was any other way for them to realize it.
I hope my comment is kinda understandable cool video tho considering the rather fresh channel :)
I love the way you put it. And I totally agree. Assuming CIG actually pulls through with everything they’ve said, It really comes down to the player and what they want to do, and what they want to work towards. Overall I think you put it really well though, I appreciate the comment a lot!
I'm hoping AI blades and NPCs will help us out there...
@@FuriousImp Im sure they will! its just a matter of time until they're being implemented.
My opinion on the whole team is not that they can't do it but just that they're brutally inefficient. checking out CIG's Job reviews gives some insight.
I understand your point and I thought about it as well and I think I've "found a solution"
For the context I've played gta online as well I few years ago and one day I became lucky/cursed because of a modder. The guy spawned billions on players on the server just like that without warning. At first it was fun to have li'e 20 billions because I was able to buy everything. But in the end I started to have less fun in the game. Never been banned by r* and I play to the game few times in a year.
And for SC, I spent a lot of money in the game because I felt in love of ships, but to prevent this, I'm planning to start with starters and let some weeks happen before getting a bigger ship. Like this I hope to keep my interest on the game longer! 🤞
I'm twice concierge, but I understand your POW.
You hope you will be able to play the game, earning everything, which I appreciate.
Many of us, who bought ships when all we could do was looking at them in a Hangar, doubt the game will ever be released, looking at the bloating of the company and its inability to deliver what a single indie developer can.
We bought dreams, (my wallet sealed quite a while ago). I know I won't play Star Citizen enough, if I live long enough to see it, to bother grinding to the top.
I'm content, at the moment, to haul some stuff from and to some place in the verse, when I have a couple of hours to do so, and I live in the moment. With all the wipes we got in the past, it was fun at the beginning, but after the fifth time you grind for a Caterpillar, it gets stale, and you just buy one at the store. The ability to melt or CCU allows us to try, test and discard many ships, holding to what we like. Constant shifting in balancing and tweaking can make a ship underwhelming by night, and another, once unappealing, suddenly more interesting. I own in game less then 1/5 of what I pledged for, the rest locked into long CCU chains. I might sell everything, one day, and buy a single big asset, while grinding for normal stuff. Nothing is written in stone and I don't even care about what I own.
What I keep telling to new player is to be wary and not fall to the hype. It is not worth supporting a company with ship purchases worth several times the price of a triple A, released game, when they shown, they still don't know what Physics, Mass and Flight model will be in game after 12 years in development.
Chris Roberts talks about 1.0 and SQ42 features complete and I shake my head: that guy either is a Clown or a Conman; maybe both, knowing to lie to his backers.
If I could enter SC today, I would just pledge for a starter pack and stay on the fence: if it fails, you won't get burned as hundreds of thousands supporters would.
I'm with you, if I could start over, I wouldn't buy anything at all until the game was released.
@carlosfernandez7706 You forgot to mention showers - hygene. Some have toilets, but no shower.
Sounds like you weren't realistic in your expectations.
I don't follow TH-cam comments so feel free to set me straight.
You are not factoring in that most of people who has those big ship are playing for 5-8 years and have no intention of reatarting from scratch.
All depends by how well and how replayable end game will be.
Feel like I've said this thousands of times, but maybe this will eventually pay off. Progression in Star Citizen = Reputation It has NEVER been about building up your fleet. Death of a spaceman.. you lose your rep. Strategic/skill error.. you lose your rep . You'll be able to purchase required ships for contracts usually before you have the rep to get access to them. Being a Citizen is rep .. from military service to pirate or anywhere in between. Rep Rep Rep.
I do agree with you in the most part, but as a long time MMORPG player and experienced Elite player, I'm way past the point of enjoying the progression of gaining cash, improving gear or ships, or whatever. It all comes down to enjoying time with your friends, random, or even yourself. Having a goal of some sort does help you motivate, but goals also makes you satisfied with the game so easily which is what the video is focused more on.
I always tell anyone that is considering pledging for a ships if they just what the ship, or they what the gameplay that comes with it. If you just want the ship, you really shouldn't. Sounds counter intuitive, but the moment you buy that ship for owning pleasure, the ship is done for you.
It reminds me of the one guy who ground for the full year to get his Carrack. Later that month, there was a wipe. I'm more of a solo player here. I also started with Aurora and used it forever, every upgrade I could afford. Can't use a mic so less of a team option here, more of an explorer anyway. Eventually got to my Corsair, my poor mans space explorer/camper van, 4 Solo cabins with suit lockers in them. The grinding gets old after: repeatedly falling through the planet, tripping/dying, random kill, paper plate armor, and death by elevator. No fleet here, couple of ships...most nerfed...Corsair is the only ship to carry the NURSA. So many missions shift to getting my crap back, declaring victory, and moving on. I still like the game, but I don't have time for Warcraft extremism...I just want to have fun when I have time.
When the universe expanses, there will be a lot of other things to do with our limited available time as adults. Such as buying appartments in cities, new hangars at different location, customize them, build bases.
Even if we have many ships, we don't have all of them, there are always new ones released to discover and no ultimate ship exists, as they are dedicated to specific activities. Personality, I have a small goal of purchasing my 890i in game and I will probably go through all the series.
I hope that Roleplaying will be a thing and more interesting cooperative missions or small campaigns will be released as content in the future.
So, you're saying that I shouldn't value my 15,000+USD fleet? That it would've held more value if I slaved hours upon hours repeating monotonous quests for days, weeks and even months just to have that progress wiped, slaved and slaved again, then had THAT progress wiped yet again, till the game finally releases to v1.0? Then behold I can start the official umpteenth instance of monotonous slaving and slaving for every ship in my fleet FOR REAL this time?!
Riiiiiiight? 🤔🙄
On Day One, I will already have my Pioneer and will be plopping down bases to sell across the verse. Then retreating to my 890Jump to watch the sun rise over a grateful Verse.
If you have the time to do all of that slaving, then kudos to you. As for me, ... my time is far more valuable than performing monotonous video game quests/missions over and over or worse yet, finding an exploit to get to what I want. I have the funds. 💰😎
Donkey.
@@theamericanaromanticIf you're a broke-boy, just say so. Lol😂
@@Bronwyn031 Donkey.
Yeah, on day 1 you will most definitely NOT be plopping down bases to sell all across the verse. Well unless you have also bought like 1 billion in UEC. I am not sure what the cost is to refuel the capital sized ships, but I know it is expensive. Repairs are also expensive. Buying the commodities needed to build an entire base is going to be expensive. So unless you also bought a lot of UEC, you are not going to be able to afford to hire the NPC crew to build bases, or buy the raw materials needed to build bases, or buy the fuel to even get to those base building locations.
Aside from that, I agree with you. Hell, I didn't even like grinding away at super mario bros. when I had died for the 5000th time underwater. Start over at level 1 again. Yeah, no. Old games had a skill wall that usually popped up at some point and would require way more work to surpass than the last 5 levels had. Mobile games usually have a paywall that is similar. Play through the tutorial and upgrading is easy and can be done many times in a day. By the end of the first week of playing, you either are waiting 24 hours for upgrades to complete, or you can buy instant upgrades with credits. At first those credits are easy to acquire by just doing things in game. But then the cost skyrockets and the only way to ever get enough is to buy one of their loot chests for $2.99.
I have a few ships in game, about $400 since 2016, so not bad at all on the yearly game expenditure front. If I was young and had nothing to do after work, sure, I may be able to grind for a week to get a connie. But I have real stuff to do that lessens my game time.
Well said well said
One of the biggest problems with this game is when you spend this money or even grind to get these ships most of them don’t even do what they’re designed to do like recently. I got a caterpillar and I can’t even run cargo with it because it’s just so busted my lightning has gotten nerve so bad that I can’t even justify the price even though I use credits
Some people don’t have the time to spend on the grind in game, after our daily grind at work, and spend the $ instead of the time, getting to the part of the game that are wanting to spend what time we do have in game!
It sounds like I started the game 10 tears before you. ;). My endgame is unlocking and upgrading my fleet of ships while building out my base.
Thanks much for your take! I totally understand. Actually had my fill of starting from scratch with 8 or 10 different characters in WOW through many versions.
That said, I have a Rambler to do some minimalistic gameplay. An F7A for some fighter events. A Zues ES for exploring. A Merc for cargo and data running when it eventually comes out. A Terrapin for bunkers and such. You get the idea. Ultimately, I never get to play much. An hour or two here and there. I just don't have time for big grinds. WOW burnt me out on that.
Thank you for your comment! I like your thinking and I’m sure that’ll be an awesome way to spend time in the verse:)
You make a good point. I’ve wondered if there would be a period of “equalizing” after 1.0 release.
The reputation system as gain more reputation you would get more business in that game loop possibly needing bigger ships or greater firepower then less complex missions or smaller demands of the player. The need to find the right ship vs having the right ship for the job. Does remove a small bit of gameplay the shopping phase that I mentioned
This is why for at least the first year that I was part of the project I only bought ships with money that I had already bought in game. Letting me have the experience of earning them while also supporting the development and getting to keep them through wipes.
After grinding my way up to a C2 in-game twice, days before a reset took them away, I just paid cash for one. The game finally releasing will simply be ANOTHER patch for the people who already put years into the game. No reason for them to have to lose everything.
how did it take so long? I started with the 40$ mustang ship and had like 20 million space bucks in less than a week and bought the ships i wanted. There are so many exploits to make money fast in the playtest
@@oddursigurdsson9637the true value of gameplay will be skill. Exploits will be fixed. Try zero to hero with that Mustang and understand the grind sucks. One you’ve done it a at least once. You’ll understand why people, like myself purchase ships to justify wasted time spent grinding over and over ( >5 yrs now). If you’re a new player, please enjoy the exploits, enjoy every ship you can. As time ticks on, it’s not about how many ships you have or own. You’ll eventually find the role you enjoy and begin fine tuning your skills.
tbh, old players have a fairly valid free pass to a degree. when things are actually "done", then they've probably played for years and are just going to want to skip that initial grind.
there is a point where that will hurt you long run, though, because you will have nothing to really drive your desire to play. it will leave some players with nothing but a pointless ever expanding bank account that never goes down, because there is nothing to buy in game that you haven't paid for irl.
i bought two big ships with LTI to cover some costs. ships i would probably never even be able to grind within 10-15 years. am hoping to play them off each other as a gameplay loop after some initial grinding with a Titan and Ranger CV. fill in fleet as i go.
i think a valid way to provide a good experience and a sense of progression to people with a "large hangar" would be to not make all ships available on launch ..
treat all the ships in the "website-hangar" as if they were "just ordered" from the manufacturer .. who is now overwhelmed with orders and will take a bit of time to actually build all the ships and we the players get all kinds of job offers to go and collect resources ..
on day one you get to choose one ship that will be delivered immediately (size limited to a starter ship) and all the other ships in your hangar need to get build and delivered over the course of maybe even months first .. you get to choose what gets priority .. but then build-speed depends on the ingame economy.
--- but i really expect there to be some kind of progression that has only a more tangential connection to the ships we purchased. (Reputation, Housing and first and foremost base building .. i can also totally see them restricting access to entire regions and planets based upon reputation or affiliation)
So the item I paid full price for goes on layaway? That will never be accepted. The number of accounts that have $10,000 worth of ships is no where near the majority. The AVERAGE hangar value is like $135. The VAST majority of hangars are the $45 entry price. Just like real life, the 1%ers will be flying around in their 890s while the majority of us are flying our clapped out cutlass black.
I have read many similar comments, this game is not exactly a progression game; it is more of a open world exploration game. Yes, many people will have capital ships; but as a few other comments have mentioned, you need a crew and money to keep those capital ships going. You will not be able to just spawn in an Idris and launch as you want. You need to load boxes, supplies, ammo for the long journey and money to buy all of these; you need to have millions to be able to refuel after jumping to another sector. This game is a lot more complicated than just buying the ships in store and flying these in the verse. If you do not plan your journey before hand, you will be stranded or dead with the ship. Although everyone is excited for this game, it will not be an arcade game where you will easily respawn and jump in the game again for just 1 hour.
Buying the ships might be a shortcut, but is definitely not the end to the gameplay. The game is living the verse, building your base, farming, trading; not just buying the ships.
In my opinion, having a variaty of ships to open up gameloops at release still is a starting point that will provide you with a meaningfull progression within that gameloop, i would think for me having to start with a sterter ship might end up anoying when you already played the game for years and got to play around with lots of stuff.
Starting out with giant capital ships might leave some at a pont where they dont really have a progression path to chase, but when a big part of yor progression is tied to the reputationsystem maybe having big ships to start with wont be much of an issue at all
I enjoy flying the 400i. With the 400i Ill make money and collect a fleet. I want a terrapin, Apollo and 600i. I wouldn't want anything larger than a 600i but I'll help out on an orgs capital ship and pitch in credits
When the game first came out they stated quite clearly what they were going to do. During development, the game would have a pledge store with ridiculously over inflated prices for the pure purpose of funding the game. Spending money on ships in the pledge store is not a star citizen feature, its a star citizen development feature intended to let you donate large sums of money towards the development. They stated they intend to remove the pledge store upon release and all ships from that time will ONLY be purchasable ingame.
I 100% agree with this (and I’ve bought a ton of ships).
I really hope that CIG adds some sort of progression system in game that you need to go through to fly these ships aside from just buying them. Similar to how a game like Eve you have to unlock a skill to fly bigger ships.
My plan is that once I upgrade my cpu Im gonna get back into sc, but I will upgrade from the drake cutter to the Misc Hull A. It is a nice starter that allows me to get to the other ships faster and doesnt take away the sentimental value in the other ships or the little bit of grinding it takes to get to them. Then theres the RSI Zeus mk 2. This one I'd really like to have permanently someday. That one is my version of your zentoro. The only difference between gta 5 online and star citizen that changes why I'd want to get other ships a little faster is that the wipes sometime make that grind feel useless.
I hear you, and basically agree, but saying "NO value" is wild...
That's why i have small starter ship and all other money invested in paints.
The main issue as I see it is that most player activities in the persistent universe mode revolve around the acquisition of credits and the main sink for that money is ships. If you have the ships you want already, what will be motivating you to spend time in the game? Showing off will get boring quickly and the utility of the ships won't mean anything if you have no reason to make use of that utility.
I guess it's all gonna come down to the content and content structure that the game winds up launching with. If CIG can add enough content that's engaging without a credit incentive to keep players coming back then I guess this problem won't come about.
Some of us have been playing for years and have suffered through many wipes where a new player will not really experience that. I’ll enjoy this game for many years as it progresses
Star Citizen needs a permission system to make ingame ship progression a thing.
A multicrew ship made for a crew to work towards and operate isn't doable. You need the owner on to bring it out, and the crew can't even contact the ATC for you to land, depending on the patch.
With an actual NPC crew the system makes much more sense, but it is still a massive auec grind, especially with ships being more expensive.
I think there's a misconception about ships = progression. As in real life, not everybody needs a fancy sports car and even if you have one. You don't drive it everywhere because there are scenarios where it's not practical and you might prefer a regular sedan or hatchback to go the supermarket. The same with industrial or cargo vehicles. You may be able to own a massive shipping vessel, but it's impractical for the last-mile transport that's why you still have trucks and smaller cargo vans and that doesn't mean the owner of the small cargo van is less successful than the shipping company owning the cargo ship.
The key in SC, as of right now, is finding your niche and get the right tool for the job. Sometimes you'll need a bigger ship, but others the smaller one is the right choice. And even in those cases you don't need to own a larger ship if you have friends or are part of an org who can provide you the vessel and even a crew to run it.
In my hangar I have a Zeus Mk. 2 CL and and Galaxy and that's all I need. I take the Zeus if I play solo or with 1-2 friends and this will be my gameplay. The Galaxy ist just a Backup, that's why it also have LTI, because if more than 1-2 friends wants to join the game/our gameplay we can switch to the Galaxy and have tons of fun., especially if there are alot of players of our org wants to play together, we can take the Galaxy, and can switch the module, maybe we take the refinery, some people jump on Prospectors or Moles and go mining or we take the medbay and do some med gameplay. I really look forward to it.
This is YOUR opinion and you've got some valid points, not least of which is that if a 'whale' owns every ship, what is there to grind for?
... but I think everyone should own at least ONE favourite, Millennium Falcon ship ... the one that embodies the essence of your in-game character.
For me, it was the Freelancer MIS - slow but solid and a bit of an unassuming badass.
Owning a ship that encompasses the player's personality in the game, using REAL money to say 'this will be mine, regardless of what wipes may come', is not without value.
Is very easy to make SC 1.0 meaningful in literally hundreds of ways like EVE Online did. I think you forget you can lose a ship you paid for, or grinded for years in just minutes. Insurance will also be insane to make economic sense. Ofc there are other tools like introducing research, or expensive alien modules etc, that can't be reimbursed by insurance when your ship explodes.
regardless of how people play this game, or perceive it. one thing that is most notable in this game above all the other little things is its ships. and the more there are in variances and variety.
will only continue to build and should do so for its entire life.
even with progression in mind there are still for the time being, a lack of ships .
for every role a ship could play in this game. some like mining have too few ships to pick from.
and the ones we have for everything else from cargo to combat are all over the place between styles and capabilities,
this is great. but in a space sim MMO kind of game there should absolutely be way more.
which would ultimately make the experience of choice within progression a lot more fun. as well as more depth of choice in how you play.
one thing to remember is that as this game is built it will also evolve and be drastically different or even unrecognizable in only a few more years.
with how much faster content, stability, and the underlying tech involved to tie everything together.
additional ships and the release of new systems will become exponential.
You have a valid point, which is why i only have C1 and hornet mk2. I want to earn something bigger in game eventually. But on the flip side I definitely don't want to start the grind from my mustang starter
I think when we can see how the in game economy is shaping up, it will give us an idea of running costs. I can see people having these big ships but not being able to afford to run them until they've unlocked missions that pay enough credits. I think this would make things much more realistic and a more level playing field from the get go. If CIG want us to have businesses and our own corporations in game, then im pretty sure they'll make every aspect of the game a collective grind. Will suck for strictly solo players but will encourage people to seek out orgs and friends to work with.
I agree that the journey is just as important as the destination. However, I’ve been a backer for a decade now and even though I limit myself to about $50 a year that adds up over that amount of time. I’m sure I’ll have a Carrack and a few smaller ships by the time the game launches but I fully intend to begin the game in a Cutty Black or something similar.
I went from the Aurora to Cutty Black to Spirit C1 and not I am waiting on the Zeus MK2. I did also recently get one of the hover bikes to get into and out of areas faster. I think the ship buying is a great way to fund the game. I feel there is kind of diminishing returns as we go into the future and you spend the money on really big ships. I think SC is very much a make your own fun experience. I did like starting from Cutty Black but loosing the engines got old. It would be nice to give back to the backers by making their pledges have more power since they can no longer be bought. Maybe go Shark Card route and buy UEC to get the ships.
It's definitely a good point, I personally don't like the basic grind at the start of the games, for example, in elite dangerous, getting to medium size ships was a pain, for that reason, I only bought zeus mk II, which will get me over the most basic grinding in small ship, but I am not planning to buy any other ship, so I can progress towards other bigger ships and goals, like vulture, carrack, etc, it's a lot about the mentality, but I can see myself enjoying the game much less if I had ship from every category from the start.
Base building and maintenance will imo be the end goal for most people, and a massive money sink ... also, I'm too old now, don't have as much time as I did when I was younger to grind for aUEC to buy cool ships. I have money from my irl job though and like to support this game (already a Grand Admiral).
Furthermore, for the grind aspect, rep will also be taking a lot more time and effort to grind in the future, so there's always going to be something to do, ships bought with real money are just a little boost in accessibility and ease of play.
I think people buying large ships are in for a shock.
In the case of the larger ships, the "Career path" doesn't have as much to do with earning the ship itself as it does earning the respect of others as an organizer...or being able to realize that as an owner you are bringing together others who do have charisma and organizational skills to create something larger that people want to be a part of.
So I think there are going to be slots for people to actually live and be a part of the verse no matter what their personality or situation. I also think that some of the people that have purchased these larger ships will never utilize them... because they lack the understanding of all of the above and they THINK that they have just paid to win.
They think this... only to find that they actually do have to put in the work to form a cohesive band of brothers... or put in the work to become a part of one such band.
Imagine when 1.0 release and CIG announce that all players will start with a choice between a handful of starter ships, and that all pledged ships will only unlock the ability to purchase them in game, with players not owning them having to unlock that ability through progression. That would be sick lol.
For me, i own a lot of large ships, but the reason for that is to share with others.
I have a few small ones to start off but i know the larger ships would take waay to much grinding
Interesting points, but not sure I agree. For example, I bought my Hull A, but what makes it truly fun is putting the effort into flying around and actually making money hauling. Usage brings what might just be a cool looking digital art model to life. And my Pisces opens up a lot of fun game options and makes getting around easy, but it is actually using it that brings the value. In all these cases what actually brings the value is the immersive game environment in which ships can really do cool stuff that is fun and looks great in screen captures.
I totally get what you mean. This is just my personal preference and opinion. I don’t think that starting with almost nothing should be the case for everyone at all. It’s just what brings value to me:)
I've been playing this game on and off for more than 11 years, the joy you feel when you unlock/earn your ship, most of us felt when they could fly it for the first time.. if you want the experience like you described with GTA online.. you should not play the game at all now and wait for the release.. but I do t expect that to be happening anytime soon ... Maybe in another 10 years. .. maybe
my pledge was a cutter now I am planning on getting an Zeus CL and I will stay on that until 1.0, I will be buying a ton of skins and mechs my only exception is a medium salvaging ship since I like that game loop.
some of these days a medium ship newer and shinier will come along. Trust me, it will be hard to resist.
Everyone starting with starter ships would have a very short-term effect. Only the people starting on release would experience the effects because people will quickly progress so people starting at a later date would have starter ships while others who started earlier would have more advanced ships. Just let people buy the ships they want.
I think progression in SC won't be ship dependent. Hopefully it will be based on robust reputation progression gameplay. If NPC AI will be as sophisticated as I hope based on prior statements, progression could be based on reputation and skill acquisition. If AI can have short- and long-term goals and have memory of the events that transpire in their lives, then some very powerful gameplay experiences could be possible. If you can distinguish your character by gaining abilities and perks through the relationships you form with NPCs, and the skills you acquire with planned gameplay systems like crafting, you can build unique skill sets that can become valuable to other players and NPC in the game.
There should be skill progression within the game as well. Say if you are a bounty hunter and through meeting an NPC and building a good relationship with them, in time they may teach you a new takedown or joint lock that is useful for apprehending bounties with hand-to-hand combat. The more you perform or practice it the more effective it becomes until you can master it. The course of the relationship could take time and require you to work through a variety of missions together etc... where you earn the confidence of the person for them to share it with you. Think of Beatrice Kiddo from Kill Bill learning the 5 Point Palm Exploding Heart technique from Pai Mai and all that it took for her to do in order for him to teach her the technique.
This mechanic could work in a variety of way for a variety of perks and skills for different career paths. Working as a crew member with a particular NPC pirate of time may lead to him asking you to help him to craft an experimental breaching charge that can cut into hulls in the vacuum of space. So, he invents super-thermite breaching charges that contains an oxidizer so it burns in space. There could be missions where you have to acquire the parts and materials needed and a secluded location to work in. Eventually through whatever crafting mechanic they implement you now learn how to make it. With this skill you can sell these breaching charges on the black market, keep the knowledge to yourself, or sell/ teach your org or gang. But with that knowledge you become more valuable to have on a pirate crew. This is just an example of the type of gameplay that could make progression fun, immersive and rewarding. Combine this with the death of a spaceman mechanic and you have a character that you are invested in and do not want to lose thus making your decisions more meaningful. Having a bunch of ships won't be the motivation to progress. Making connections and acquiring skills will be what everyone strives for.
altough I totally agree with you on the subject of "satisfaction with progression".
For me in Star Citizen roleplaying also is a big factor, and your backstory wouldn't really have to been played trough imo.
so yes, from a "gamers perspective" progression is part of that and you should def work your way up.
but from a "role play perspective" working your way up for a gameplay you actually play the game for feels like a long grind.
Also, I want to mention, some of the ships you name in your progression need a relative big crew, so it would make sense to buy ships together. but unfortunally that is not a feature (yet).
I think it's hard to find players that just want to crew and solely crew, and will take a 10% cut when you take a 50% cut just to earn back your ship.
Agree! Best motivation for playing is to earn new items. I dislike idea of having everything on start. I think they will try to balance it by changing peroids and costs of insurances.
There is a reason, I have limited my Pledge purchases to a single ship Manufacturer. For me, that is Drake, b/c they are the most jack of all trades and cover most bases. This way, I can leave all the specific ships and better in situation ships to buy with ingame currency. So I'll have things to grind and progress towards. Also, why I am not pledging for ships larger than the Corsair. anything that is a big multicrew ship, I'm leaving for progression.
@@_lewtz I like that idea! I’m keeping my Zeus and using that as my “go to” ship. Something about working towards ships provides a little bit more value to me.
This video is such a good idea, our nephews will have the opportunity to watch this and compare the ships while waiting for the next patch
CIG haven't removed the value, they have, ultimately, provided two investment options. Both share the same thing. _Time_ . Either by offsetting income, or spending time in game. Situations vary and a one-size-fits-all mentality is quite inflexible. However, the entire argument might perhaps be put in the context that _nobody actually owns anything tangible_ regardless of either method. We are, ultimately, talking about high resolution jpeg trading in a 'world' that may be switched off decades from now.
The longevity of the game I think is more important than well-intention narrative that "only progression in game" is meaningful. I'd argue it wasn't the progression that was meaningful (it seldom is) so much as the experience was crafted to make it meaningful. If we get well crafted experiences, how people come upon some of their ships, should be the least important thing, not the most.
You have a fair point but, I was on gta online day 1. Rare was the update I couldn't buy everything even without discounts. Thanks to just playing the game. Even when the best free money was only hitting armored trucks from banks or, (which I think are still MIA) Selling the Sentinel that Spawns near the first top dollar apartment. On Eclipse IIRC
I avoided the Zentorno by putting extra miles on my T20 (IIRC). Back day one the Entity was basically the top dog. I still have a Jester too, cause it's fun to drive and brakes well.
As much as you may have a point about progression. Much more important to me. Is the fun shared with friends and gamers, along the way. The journey is the fun.
@@parkerxgps I agree as well, I am always most focused on having a fun immersive experience when I play SC with friends.
I'm starting with the Zeus ES and have no plans to go larger, I think it's the perfect ship for 1 to 3 player exploration.
+1, tho problem is with whole conception of missions and grind. I would see it more like, very high priced missions but more complex. Like mini campaigns with some random events and chained missions. Less grind, more adventure. Just swap time spent on repetitive actions that give small prizes for few, longer and maybe harder, but much more profitable.
It depends on how progression is handled in the game. If CIG is smart progression will not be about grinding a bigger ship anytime you want to access more high end content.
Take hauling for example, having a big ship will leverage the scale of what you can do ofc, but they could also provide missions where you are transporting a small quantity of high value stuff, or where speed matters for example, where a big ship is useless. There are many ways to make this game not to rely on big ships 100% of the time.
this is something i thought was missing from cargo. A race essentially and maybe even a checkpoint style with a couple different deliveries. It would be hilariously awesome to see a guy running full steam through babbage carrying apackage yelling about he was a second late or something like that.
also we need an in game cb style radio that can be used in the ships
IF you look at how hauling and trading is now in 3.24. A large cargo ship can haul more in a single trip but it takes longer on each end to load and unload. Where as a smaller ship can make the same run multiple times in the about same time span so it evens itself out.
A great point of view that I know many people share. I think the value of the ships depends on a pilots vision of gameplay overall. I have been around since the kick starter and have spent more then a few $$$ though the Polaris is the largest ship I will buy. For me personally, I'm here for the exploration and bounty hunting. I also think many will have "Zero to Hero" accounts to scratch that grind game play. I personally would love to see the store wiped out of existence upon the 1.0 launch which at one time was the plan. However, looking at the size of CIG and the crap ton of work to come well after 1.0 becomes reality there is simply no way they could remove the store and survive short of a fairly substantial monthly subscription. Here's to the future!
I agree! It really is up to the pilot and what they want to do. All of this is referring to my own vision of the game, and I think it’s totally up to the individual to find what is important to them. Thank you for the comment, I appreciate your perspective!
I absolutely agree. And the people who complain about having to grind for something because blah blah blah...
Imagine you went fishing. Fishing isnt an instant gratification activity but a lot of people with jobs, kids, etc. Still find time to go fishing even when they dont catch any fish.
Now Imagine one Saturday morning you go fishing with your buddy. You get all set up and your buddy says, i dont feel like waiting to catch fish on this stupid hook, i went and bought a giant net that can catch all of the fish at once without any effort.
You'd look at your buddy like he was crazy. Going fishing isn't just about catching the most fish the fastest. Its about the journey. Getting up early even though you're tired from busting your ass all week. Driving through the early morning fog. Stopping to get coffee and snacks. Finding a really good spot. Watching the sun rise. The smell of the morning dew on the grass. The sights, the sounds.
Grinding is about the investment of your time to get better at something you enjoy while progressing through the different levels of the game. Most people i know who own a fleet of 1000s of dollars worth of ships don't even play the game. They say they dont have anything to do because they already paid for all of the ships they want.
Well at that point you might as well just skip going fishing with your buddy, grab some frozen fish and some beer that you paid for and get whatever level of satisfaction you can muster up from it at home alone.
I hate fishing! But do I love to eat fresh fish. So I give it try once in a while, hoping for that good dinner tonight. Haven't had much success.
Your analogy is so spot on though.
Oh, I do own a large fleet. And yes it does ruin a reason to play as often as one could.
I'm hoping for in depth exploration of the star systems that are going to be very slow to release over the years. And the grind to support that life style.
Salvaging is my hope to do that.
It's health and good if obtaining ships isn't actually the main form of progression in Star Citizen. Ships can't really be the main form of progression if they are being sold on the website. The problem is the game has nothing else right now.
The game might have to throw ships at us like they are guns in a looter shooter game that need to leveled up and modded out. ...Sort of easy to access and get to a relatively competitive state but long and hard to min max completely.
Ships sort of have to be square one now ...Ship sales aren't going away even after release (They've have basically confirmed this in so many words now though it would totally go against my assumption of what the game was going to be on launch). When CIG pitched this project I knew there were like 4 or 5 ships you could obtain right away if you were an early backer who supported the game with a substantial amount of money to get the project off the ground. I never really imagined every ship was going to be sold, that they were all going to more expensive than stand alone AAA game, there would be hundreds of them, or that this would be completely necessary to game afloat.
Don’t worry about people having lots of ships or campital class ones. CIG have now perfectly made clear ships are going to require upkeep, multiple player crew to run optimally, and the bigger the ship the greater these requirements, just to name a few.
Take an Idris for example. That thing is going to burn a hole in your uec wallet just in fuel. Then there’s ammo, player and box crew wages/shares, perhaps future docking costs, hefty insurance, super expensive components and repairs, maintained fighters ect ect.
I shared same concerns as you but it’s clear they’re not going to be a problem, only a problem for the whales who bought all these things, especially if they don’t have an org.
I have 2 accounts. One is my pledge account and the other is my grind account that started with just a starter ship. I use my grind account when I get the urge to make the grind. I really enjoy that I can play either way.
New to the channel & this is an interesting video, so I liked & subscribed. This being said, as a long time backer of SC, from my perspective, 1 of the best aspects of Star Citizen is that there is such thing as truly end game objectives universally, such as with the vast majority of mmo games. Each player has the ability to find things they enjoy doing & explore those aspects of the game. While larger ships might be able to do something better than a smaller version, it's usually at the cost of needing more players to help as well as having the funds to get that larger ship running how that player prefers. So there will still be some degree of progression for everyone. For some, they don't need progression, because the game itself is the escape from whatever bothers them in RL. Don't get me wrong, your perspective is absolutely valid and will probably apply to most. I just believe that as it's further developed, SC will be able to be enjoyed by almost anybody that enjoys games that deal with life in a distant future.
Hello! Thank you for the comment and support it does really mean a lot. I like your perspective, and I agree with it very much. I know the title of video gives a more harsh vibe to my opinion, but I certainly feel very similar. I’m excited because once/if we get the star citizen we have been waiting for, everyone’s going to have a place in the verse. Regardless of the constant ship sales and what not.
That's a good point, thank-you for sharing. ;-)
My main incentive for buying ships is to support the game, but I've limited my purchases mainly to solo ships (hoping for AI cards for turrets) or a three-person crew (Pilot, CoPilot/Engr., Gunner).
I plan to have my cargo ships spread out at the various stations and/or cities, most of my fighter ships at MIC-L1 and the various specific use ships (Prospector) stored at a station nearest its use?
I'll fly my Pieces or similar craft as a shuttle to those stored ships or do P&D jobs with it?
Thank you! That sounds like a great plan
I think alot of people are kind of missing the point.
You have a very valid point. Sure there is a certain percentage of players that will simple play for the sake of playing.
However, I think most people need something to work towards and by pre selling everything alot of people wont see a point to get a bunch of the ships because there wont be any real point.
Same thing is happening in a different way in ED. They release the Type-8 for example, everybody I know had zero interest in it because it simple doesnt really feel a role for older players...
It is a concern , to defeat this problem they will have to continue to make ships after the release...
Then a bunch of people will just buy those too and slowly lose interest...
I dunno, it is an issue and I have no idea how they are going to fix it.
I am cutting myself off from buying anymore ships.
I have an upgrade to the liberator and a ship in every category as a base point but I can see where this will never end...
I would much rather see them focus on adding solar systems .
Its a freaking space game that has 1 solar system lol.
Next year you might have 2...
God knows when you will see another.......
Thanks for the comment! I think you said it pretty well and I definitely agree. I really hope to see more star systems as well.
I think for the backers (myself included), the issue of progression is a little irrelavent up to the point that you have already achieved in the alpha. There will be more ships and vehicles to aim for after the release of the game, which will satisfy the ongoing evolution of the verse. I also think that having a select few players bouncing around in crazy ships day 1 is going to push new players to aim higher, be it from awe of the Odyssey that flew over them as they looked up for the first time, or spite at the Polaris that just atomised their dinky Aurora as it left atmo.
It’s a simple solution but just having “legacy server” and “live server” where real money ships can only go to legacy server. That way even if you don’t own ships you can go to that one and even if you do own ships you can still go to the live server to get that meaningful progression. Kind of like retail wow vs classic.
I see SQ42 as the game to beat. I see SC as the game to play with friends.
I don't have time to grind, so I'm happy to be able to help fund the game and get rewarded for that.
I do have a second starter account for a zero to hero run if that ever entices me.
I can see both sides. The ones who have the cash to burn and want to enjoy the time they do have to play. On the other hand they will miss a lot of content they may see as mundane or repetitive by skipping a good chunk of the game, and keep in mind we still have maybe a fraction of whats to come but if thats the way they want to play thats fine.
I wish they would have kept massive capital ships from the store. The real issue in my opinion is going to be how launch goes with all these massive orgs. People say being poor at release is going to prevent everyone from operating these massive ships, I disagree. While solos will struggle yes, some orgs have thousands of members and are going to be SWEATY, as soon as they earn even 10k each, they will pool it for a massive cargo haul, rinse and repeat just like what happens every wipe now. Hell if we start with only 5k uec, a 1000 member org can pool 5mil for a cargo haul. I give it 2 hours before there is a fully operational fleet with multiple capital ships. Not to mention they will be able to instantly flood every system playing dora the explorer, finding all the cool shit before the normies even get a chance to leave the first planet or system. They could even lock it down so you cant even go there. Its going to be interesting how the first week goes. I just hope they have some sort of rep system, where you might have to fly X amount of time with a smaller size ship in order to rank up and earn the right to fly a bigger ship. People dont come out of flight school and go straight to a 747-B or AC-130. I dont give a shit what youre roleplaying as, how much youve spent, or how many hours you have in the alpha, thats not how that works, you should have to earn it.
It depends on scope. from my view as a fighter pilot, it's not as simple as say hh pwns, each ship is more a tool and depends on use case and scope. so there is and isn't progression.
the best microtransactions post launch would probably a select few ships and cosmetics so say ships up to 200 and everything post that only at events if even that
I went from the Avenger Titan to the C1. I kind of regret it because the Titan was so fun to firefight in; now I just haul cargo around lol.
Alot of people say they dont have time to play, honestly tho, nothing justifies spending over $300 on a game, it wrong and we have to be honest with ourselves (i did it too), chances are, youve never spent this much on literally any other videogame. Whats sucking us in is the fact that ships get wiped every reset, and the actual in game cost/ grind time to purchase ships isnt worth the time you will have that ship for (between wipes). AND everytime a new concept comes and goes, you miss out on a few benefits (LTI/ giftable "sellable"/ original concept) all in a very simple purchase. Its FOMO, and yes actually a very small bit of missing out on the sell side. I hope there will be limitations to the store as well, cut out concierge benifits, and or limit ship sells to medium and smaller.
I think for a solo player playing Starcitizen, they should 100% consider ship progression as a game loop, and should avoid ship upgrades if they are not sure what game loop they wan to go down.
I will say there are already well-established orgs with hundreds even thousands of players and they already have plans for how they want to operate in the vers, and that ship heavily plays into those plans.
Now I saw this theory that to try and fill in the large ships and fill in the vers. When we have larger server meshing/servers we might see two new pledge types as they slowly remove ships from the Pledge store. One would offer the game with a starter pack that has no ship, and the other would be free-to-play with ship & Mission limitations. But of course that's just a rumor.
I am sure much thought is going into how ships will be managed in the future.
I will say ships will skyrocket on the grey market once the pledge store is gone.
That’s interesting, I’ve heard of people wanting a no ship game package and I think that’s a cool idea. I would love if CIG provided more incentive to working with other players and crewing up in ships.
I feel the same, which is why I’m waiting for the full game release with the Titan. Even if the game offers more than just buying ships, I want to experience the thrill of working towards owning one-like saving up for a car instead of someone gifting it to you. Sure, the 'easy way' feels nice, but earning it is far more rewarding.
Point about people having their ships at launch, there will already be a vibrant player world for new players to be a part of, Ambulance services will exist things like that, the thing that makes Star Citizen Star citizen will be going from day one. My pledge ship is a Freelancer max, I can make enough money for loads of other ships in a couple of days with that. New players are coming in to all sorts of things happening right away, rather than 100's of people all trying to do the same things at the same places. The people who have capital ships are the people who are needing them for their massive organisations that they will probably be looking to recruit an influx of new players to. There are positives to it.
No I have already done this... I have been playing the Mini game called 'First Day Fleet" this whole time... on day one I will begin my life in the verse and that will not be grinding for my first ship... When the game starts I will not be playing the grind for ships game I will be exploring the verse looking for all the cool hard to find trinkets and treasure...
In 2012 into 2013 I basically thought we were just giving CIG our $60ish dollars (and sometimes more if we just wanted to support what CR was doing) up front so they wouldn't need a publisher and they would give us a fun game. Supporting CIG felt like doing the Lord's work to make PC gaming great again and we going to show it to companies like EA. Nobody really had any reason to suspect we'd be where we are today. That everything would be sold and even with large percentages of the player base providing thousands of dollars the future of the game would still be unsure.
...I guess the project still exists now though and even if it would have been green lit by a traditional publisher (which it wouldn't have been) it would have been long canned by now. So maybe the the thousands of dollars individuals put in still isn't a total waste?
Like your video. Although with different opinions, I was able to understand your viewpoints. In my opinion, the advantages of people that bought ships vs people that did the grinding will be short lived at best if any. I can not speak for all but this are at least my opinion.
1. Most people bought ships mostly have some disposable income and want to gain a small advantage at star because they know if the game will ever come out, they will not have the time to grind to earn the endgame ship that they dreamed off.
2. A lot of people that have the most disposable income are middle aged people that wants to play the game casually.
3. Whatever advantage they do gain will be short lived since most are casual players, most likely much older, slower reflexes, etc. This is me, when I backed the game I was in my late 30s. Now I am 50.
Valid opinion and it does cut out some grind but it’s not as bad as you think. If u ever played Eve online or other huge expansive games where you can’t simply take all your assets anywhere working towards multiple ships all fitted out and ready to go becomes necessity. If your a combat player you will want to eventually have multiple ships ready to cuz if you die with one you can get back into action fast rather than waiting for reclaiming and refitting modules. Same thing with mining, you may want to work towards multiple ships ready to go based on what minerals you want to mine. Now consider when SC had 2, 3 and 4 systems and beyond you’re gonna want have to establish your fleet of ships at those systems too so u don’t have to transport them every time you want to move between system. So I think there still opportunities to work towards unless you spent $160k buying 4 sets of large ship package 😂
I do the whole progression thing even though I bought all my favorite ships with my own money. I usually save enough money to buy it then give it away when I unlock the ability to buy it in game.
Everything you said is true, with one main caveat: This game has been in development for 12 years and by 1.0, will be close to 15, if not 20. With that said, most of the OG backers are too busy to grind and would rather invest a few dollars to skip the grind and get to endgame with our friends, since, at the end of the day, you can't play those big ships alone.
I was understanding that they were going to have a use for the smaller explorers for smaller things or as you get closer.
honestly, I have a Zeus MK ES/CL and also a syulen, to me i think the enjoyment in the game doesn't come from the ships themself. even though, yes that is a large part of it. I think the more enjoyment for me is the game play itself, because this game manages to make vehicles simply just feel like tools. that's all they are, and it manages to grab it perfectly, and for a solo player like me who only really plays alone, sure grinding a lot of money for the super big ships is fun, but I don't really need them, I have almost all the ships in the game with AUEC, and I don't use half of them even, and they just sit in my hangar to rot and do absolutely nothing, reclaimer gameplay is boring to me, hammerhead crewing just isn't fun sometimes because you either fight too many or too little, never a right amount. But i get why people wanna go up and up and up and up. And i also get why some people just wanna start from the get go, most people buy these ridiculously big ships for orgs and clans, but I think on average, most players who play alone a lot of the time or don't really have groups, tap out at around $350-$400 max, because they know their limits and what ships they would need or want and know they probably cant run super large ships alllll the time. maybe with AI crew that will change, I don't know. I understand your reasoning and how i think/hope the whole pledge store works is, after 1.0 they get rid of the ability to pledge ships themselves, and maybe just paints, gear and decor and things. Because I imagine they would want you to grind, just like you want people to grind. but some have already spent millions on this game and getting rid of their millions spent on launch would be diabolical
i plan on starting with a c1 spirit solid starter solo cargo runner and i can work up to many bigger options that will be available and if something happened and i lost it all at least id have my c1 to fall back on.
If you ever played Eve online, and in this aspect sc is like Eve, this video would never been made. Let me explain. In sc, if you have some ships in one System, scattered over multiple bases and now find yourself in a sys 3 jumps away, you have no way to get your ships together but to go back again and get them one after another (getting ships reclaimed, you have to pay the insurance fee and waiting for the delivery alot). Maybe for a utility capital, sure, but combat ships will be bought and outfitted in the system you are in. There is no such thing es ship progression in sc. Its all about to have a tool at a right Time in a right place. Example, you have an outfitted explorer, fitted fighter and also pinnacle optimised miner and hauler, all neatly gathered on one base. Now go, explore a lucrative mining location some jumps out, go back now, change ships, loose Time, come back to a mined out husk of a rock. Fly back, get wrecked by pirates. Now get your fighter to counter those, ah, you are spawned in a major Hub 1 jump from your Base,but there is no ship of yours in the Hangar, so bye a fast shuttle you would need only to get to your place and be left forgotten in the hangar, because of fullfilled purpose. Now grab your fighter, fly to the system you were downed in previously, lol, to get your sweet revenge, but no, Pyro in between, you have to refuel 10 times to cross this system alone, on a route of now 5 systems, because that shortcut space hole shortcut has expired and collapsed right before your eyes previously. Now tell me, you are contempt with having one starter ship and go progressing, when a hull e has its flyby right in front of you. By the way, that would be me, on day one, hauling supply of ship parts, base building materials and enouh ammo to have fun, beeng escorted by a carrier and my mates in some nasty interceptors. Ah, and the one, mining out your precious rock, would be also me, because my explorer is stored on that carrier.... fly safe, bro ❤
I’m pretty sure it’ll have the same value, as some of us have been “grinding” this project for more than 6 years. Meaning, we had our progression to get the ship and the game. Heck, since the game was announced I got married, had a child, moved abroad, etc. 🤣
In fact, it will be the new players that’ll miss the actual grind / progression, and they might get any ship they want in a year or two tops. And that’s without any frustrating 30K loops, falling in elevator shafts, etc.
I agree with you in the most points ✌️ I myself have a pretty big fleet but still own solo ships (like my Hull A) when I play alone but since last year I am in an active org where we play 1-2 per week and it will be nice to have big ships for around 10 people to play form the get go. My gameplan is pretty industrial centered and for the other gameloops i might not find that interesting my plan is to earn these ships ingame
I believe that the early-game grind will be fun, even for those with starter ships. As those with bigger, multi-crew ships will be in need of players to operate those other components. Personally, (hot take ik) I think the game should be limited f2p or have a cheaper 5-20$ 'certificate' that allows someone to play the game without a ship. Star citizen is heavily leaning towards large crews, communities, and teamwork. So much so that it feels useless to buy a starter ship when I will spend my time using the turrets & tractor beam on my buddies' taurus, loading cargo, doing ship repairs, base repairs, and all the other things that don't require flying or owning a ship. Owning a huge ship is nice, but being a solo flyer with a capital ship won't get you as far as a team with a medium ship.