I don't care about show off virtuoso playing, I care about the joy of music. Jimmy Page conjures so much music and melody from his playing, and I suspect that was his focus.
His acoustic playing is a testament to his precision, but live they were a jam band, always reinventing and reimagining songs and Jimmy was improvising, letting the music flow through him.... it wasn't about being well rehearsed and perfect, it was about living in the moment. Even in the studio he often winged it on takes and was able to listen to them and keep ones that fit the song even if they had imperfections, being a perfectionist can hold a person back from reaching for the sky sometimes.
Page laid down some simple, yet memorable riffs, played on some classic songs with a stellar band, but was an absolutely unabashed plagiarist, marring his legacy. There were dozens of nontechnical (and many more technical-approach players) guitarists, even from his era, who may not have read music, but more skilled (hybrid picked, finger-picked, played slide) and infused passion and fire into their music, with much broader repertoires. It’s a long list. Like Hendrix (who’s revered with so much hyperbole, repetitious “he’s the greatest that ever was, and will be”) Led Zepplin and Jimmy Page as well, simply don’t measure up to the legend status that their fans create.
The modern day guitar wizards (technicians) bore me to tears. Yes, they can rip across the fretboard at hyperspeed and play all the scales and modes without mistakes, but it all leaves me cold. It's like listening to a fantastic typist. Jimmy Page penned so many incredible songs AND produced the recordings. In his live solos, he had the guts to just go for it. He was playing spontaneously as opposed to the current ilk who play lines they've practiced a thousand times.
I have to disagree. I was never impressed with Page. They wrote some good songs, but there is a reason this question is being asked, and it is because Page was a sloppy guitar player.
@@nickefgen9219 I have played guitar for more than 40 years. Page may have had some good ideas, but he never bothered to put in the work to make it sound really good. It was as if he listened to all of the B.S. people said about him, so effort was not needed. Led Zeppelin wrote some good songs, but mainly Page was a mediocre guitar player. Led Zeppelin is one of those bands that sounded good in the studio, but sucked live. Name a song where Page has the virtuosity you all keep saying he has
I remember when the band Kiss were looking for replacements for Ace Frehley and Gene Simmons said they were seeing all these incredible fast & technical players who were amazing but had zero soul. Sometimes the magic happens when there are imperfections. Jimmy Page had that magic ability when playing live to go on adventures when playing. Maybe some see it as sloppy because your not hearing what was produced in studio. I love the live Page playing, it's always a wild ride that's also incredibly enjoyable. I've said before Pages playing was like trips into the musical wilderness of a song. If it's sloppy playing I say we need lots more sloppy players these days.
I already knew about this but one time I saw a video of a kid asking Robben Ford what was the craziest band that you've ever played with and he said he played on the Creatures Of The Night Kiss Record but never got any credit for it and was way more soulful than any of the Kiss members and blew them out of the water. Now he plays with soul and feeling.
He was sloppy in recordings. This man is a liar. I counted 7 mistakes in a single solo in a studio recording. Probably one of the worst solos i have ever heard on the radio. It was pathetic. "I deal in emotions" is a cheap ass cop out. Page was overrated.
My band mates and I referred to Page as the King of Slop. Yes, when playing live, he could be sloppy as hell but when he slips into playing the intro to Since I've Been Loving You at The Garden in ´73, and he plays that entire song absolutely flawlessly, that is proof positive that Page was the best on Earth when he decided to be.
At that time all players in the rock scene were like that. Distortion wasn't in a place where it could mask picking. There was always a little hack in everyones playing.
that's why recording studios were invented: because so-called-live music sucks~ haha~ but seriously: isn't it remarkable, how much trash can be talk'd, that's all's that's possible and it means... well, whatever-you-say-it means, right? haha~
@@DMDvideo10 frack-all-that: y'can't beat the guitah gods: of course tony iommi puts those snobs-to-shame, so t'speak, haha....right up thru 1980 at least~
@@DMDvideo10 well he's great, yeah, but in terms of songs, riffs, the art, man, eddie's great but luckily it's not a competition, because there's always someone better depending on how you listen... and where , no matter when... eddie was great but he really didn't have all that many songs or 'tricks' , anyway, most people are two-dimensional and clueless anyway so who cares what-we-all-say, haha
It's kind of like asking if Vincent van Gogh was sloppy. Of course, and so was Jimi Hendrix. All iconic artists. Let's just say it didn't hurt them much.
@@vilyanaria9230 "Sloppy" is not a word that is any way accurate to describe Impressionist painting. Modernism didn't upset the academic establishment because it was "sloppy." And please point me to a piece of music where Jimi Hendrix plays wrong notes. Orchestral musicians can indeed be sloppy, especially when they're performing the work of a composer that they do not respect, e.g., John Cage. Cage has spoken about that. As for Jimmy Page, he himself has said that he allowed sloppy playing with obvious mistakes to be left on recordings. One must remember that Jimmy Page was on heroin for over 25 years. If you look at footage of Page playing at the 1983 Arms Benefit concert, he's completely stoned out of his brain, which very much accounts for his "loose, sloppy style." Robert Fripp, for example, can play very precisely and rigorously,, and he is also capable of wild, loose and free extemporizing when the music calls for it.
@@nikkinonose9316 Hey Nikki No Nose, I took care of that thing downtown with the kid for ya. It's all straightened out. Jimmy the Junkie was well into the needle for almost thirty years. If it had been only five, he wouldn't have played so sloppy for so long! I appreciate the French Connection reference--well done.
Jimmy Page is one of the greatest composers of melodic and unforgettable guitar solos and riffs. Millions of people can remember his solos note for note.
I find that his sloppiness occurs when he’s playing simple pentatonic passages, but his technique is perfect on intricate acoustic passages. You never hear any mistakes on acoustic numbers, studio or live. When playing solos live, he’s stretching the limits of the pentatonic scales and his imagination. Sometimes his technique just can’t catch up, but he creates excitement. He orchestrates your emotions.
He is INCREDIBLE acoustic player and this is I feel truly underrated. As far as his electric playing is concerned, are we talking sober or high Page? Definitely he struggled at times when under the influence (heroin, alcohol, or both). And he was definitely “experimental” live, especially during the days of arrogance and self-indulgence that was Led Zeppelin. Plant specifically asked him not to deviate from the studio solo for Stairway when they did it at the 02. I think also his tendency towards a “fat guitar” tone especially for live performance can be misunderstood as “sloppy” on solos.
I would describe his style as "choppy" rather than sloppy. There are so many guitarists who are very legato in their solos but page was more staccato and it always felt like he was playing on the edge. But unlike a choppy amateur, Page played so far in the pocket that it sounded huge. A very unique combination.
I saw Zeppelin in ‘73, ‘75, ‘77……no one ever thought all of these concerts would be preserved on the internet to be studied to the depth they were. They just weren’t constructed to be fine works of art that the albums were. Just listened to Physical Graffiti again, what a treasure.
The man is a national treasure. The tone, the riffs, the songs and the entire Led Zep package still blows my mind. Even the so called inaccurate solos had a vibe about it because he is a natural and meant to be who he is.
He played like a train just barely riding the tracks about to derail at any moment and that is his appeal. He just held it together playing at the edge of his limits while displaying an Imagination with no barriers.
Great analysis! And I'd much rather have Jimmy Page's "sloppy" style than be one of those technical wizards whose music you'd have to pay me to listen to.
It’s not who sells more records . Garth Brooks sold more records than anyone for a while does that make him more talented or musically relevant ? Now Garth was a popular country artist but Jimmy Page Zeppelin? That’s like True Grit beating midnight cowboy for best picture of 1969 popular doesn’t equate to merit . Peace to all
Impressionism is a musical movement as well, yet nobody would call Ravel or Satie “sloppy” because they’re deliberate about their art. They’re not just blasting the pentatonic scale off beat and off key as fast as they can.
I've always associated Jimmy's playing with raw emotion, the guy is simply one of, or simply... the best at it. Gilmour is another emotional player, but with him you would be hard pressed to find any sloppiness in his work, that is for sure. He is like a brain surgeon.
Yes I agree .. if Gilmore played the solo different there would be a riot.. most fans know every note in his solo.. & he gave them what they wanted. Jimmy was not that type of player & if you went to their concerts expecting a studio version, you would be disappointed.. so he’s more of an artist on stage & technician in the studio.
i would respectfully call gilmour less of a technician, and more of a, uh, specialist i guess: specialisin' in the easiest-of-techniques, but excellin' in these
And I totally agree with that. It's sort of like the difference between Neil Peart and John Bonham or even or even Keith Moon. Neil was super precise and never seemed to hit a wrong drum. But Keith Moon especially was a wild man and wasn't too worried about precision ;-)
I studied classical guitar from age 9 until 16 and from then on dumped it for the energy and excitement of rock and roll. If you want precision - look at classical - if you want a reason to lose your shit and drown in excitement, then Mr Page and many others from his generation will be happy to provide. Sloppy? Pah... the electric guitarists around in the last few decades that are considered virtuosos bore the living daylights out of me. I'll take the sloppiness of rock and roll forever :)
Vladimir Horowitz, a classical pianist, is my favorite musician of all time and LZ is my favorite band. You made me aware of some similarities between Page and Horowitz in their approach to their instruments. Horowitz said that the music was behind the notes, and his critics often accredited his success to his on-stage histrionics (going rapidly from from triple pianissimo to triple forte), which is funny because he was a stoic performer with terrible stage freight; the emotions were conveyed through his fingertips. Check out his recording of Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No. 15, Rakoczi March. He pushes the piano to its sonic limits. Great stuff Carl! Your videos are the most articulate explanations of Zeppelin and Page’s style
I love the fact that Page and Zeppelin were big fans of improvising and trying to keep things fresh instead of stale. Did it always work? No, but when it did it was absolute magic. The Song Remains the Same dvd in MSG is absolutely electric and Page is completely on fire during. If you want note for note perfection, you can listen to their records. Improvising and changing things up live adds so much to the excitement and live experience. I’ve seen bands live that play their music 100% note for note which is nice and they’re talented for doing so, but the concerts were kind of boring. I was just like I’ve heard all of this before 100’s of times on the record. Nothing is different.
Led Zep was reportedly one of the most bootlegged recording acts ever. Their risk-taking improvisational high wire act was probably a big contributing factor.
I've always considered Led Zep to be a phenomenal band live and studio but Plant's recollection of the band being "The Band of Nods" in regards to their improve live performances make me laugh so much
I saw Led Zeppelin in Baton Rouge, La back in 1977. Page definitely fumble fingered a hand full of notes. The average drunk and stoned fan back then would never notice it. I saw him again in 1986 with The Firm. His playing was absolute perfection.
People that give him crap about sloppiness dont understand the blues. He may have hit a rough patch with the heroin and alcohol but he got back on track with the Firm and when he played with the Black Crowes. Then when Page and Plant toured. He redeemed himself
Ritchie Blackmore talked about the perfection of Joe Satriani, which he admired but wasn't a big fan of, had similar slant on things, though slightly a different perspective. He said if you never play bad notes, never make mistakes, you are not reaching for the emotional highs that make music interesting. It's why he loved and was inspired by Hendrix and others that were always "searching" , "reaching" for something emotionally unique. I agree with this...it's why I don't mind hitting bad notes and not studying music that much 🤣 and yeah, occasional sloppiness.
oops: there's no 'bad' notes, but only to 'hit' or rather 'play' appropriate notes/chords/passages/bits, and with no more, nor less force than necessary, is a matter of great deliberation and discipline that the pages, malmsteens, and the satrianis exemplify rather peerlessly and fearlessly, but seldom very carelessly, and occasionally vicariously _perhaps_ ...
It’s the sloppiness and wildness that makes him great. You have to ask yourself, how many memorable solos did great technicians like Satriani or Vai have? 🤷♂️
The other thing with Jimmy was that he didn’t hide behind a ton of gain in his signal. He mainly relied on volume and naturally overdrive. Consequently we can hear clearly every time his fingers aren’t perfectly in the fret or maybe his right and left hand are a nano second off from each other. Many of the shredder type players smooth those things out with a ton of gain and compression. With Jimmy you can hear all the mechanics of his playing like his pick clicking against the strings or his fingers sliding. For instance on the studio Since I’ve Been Loving You, you can almost hear the sound of his Volume knob being turned as he starts to really dig in on that intro part.
They hide behind Distortion. Gain is more towards feedback. Compression is a sound effect like taking analog and making it sound like the line is going out of a tube amp. It's not meant to distort mistakes. He didn't rely on any natural overdrive. I agree with the rest of your comment. He does make it raw and crisp because he mostly played out of the front pickup(treble). That was his style. The way he mixed fast and slow picking and the crisp clean sound made it very alluring to listen to. A high clean sound. He also used stereo effect but the signals were minimal much of the time
@@joefox9765 Yeah I didn’t want to get too technical. Almost every Distortion pedal or Lead channel on an amp has a knob called Gain. That’s the sound I’m referring to. That super fuzzed out distortion and if you have a Compressor pedal and you crank that Sustain knob it makes it gets even smoother.
@@djfrank68 👍 The only thing I can think you are saying there is a big difference at blurring a mistake live verse in the studio. Many live recordings have been edited. Your statement didn't make much sense. If they are sloppy players or beginners then yeah use a bunch of distortion and delay and gain and whatever else 🤪 I honestly think Hendricks was doing this while playing live early on. Experimented with all kinds of things The Star-Spangled Banner was just amazing. What creativity and Mastery of it all. He is not the only one of course. His style was just unique
@@djfrank68 I'll tell you something about effects. Like the rest of us, Eric Johnson said he was getting lost and experimenting with so many tones and effects that he lost his original tone that made him. So he went back to his roots. The very beginning of his original tone that put him over the top and he hasn't deviated sense. This was a span of 35 years. Something to think about
@@joefox9765 "Compression is a sound effect like taking analog and making it sound like the line is going out of a tube amp". Huh? what the hell are you on about there? You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to audio compression... Please don't talk out your ass if you are going to call other people wrong.
For me his "sloppy" solos in "Since I've Been Loving You", "D'Yer Mak'er", "Tangerine" let alone "The Song Remains The Same" easily worth ALL of the technically perfect , but mindless and soulless metal solos put together. And i've always regarded LZ impressionism.
Yeah. SINCE I'VE BEEN LOVING YOU at the Madison Square Garden, that solo...OH my God...That "sloppines" no one ever will play nearly as good as that !!!
That performance of Since I've Been Loving You is an absolute ride. You feel spent by the last note. I think that's where the camera pans to a single girl in the crowd and she's like "wowwwwwww". She sums it up exactly.
As a life long Led Zep fan I believe Jimmy Page’s prime was from 69-75. After that time frame his addictions really started to affect his performances. His style of play was his own because he was self taught and with his work in sessions and having to adapt to different genres of music it made him become the player we have come to know. IMO in his prime he was the best in the world because his raw emotion, feel and improvisation was second to none. He was a writer, arranger, producer, performer, and pioneer into using different forms of music and melding them into new things we hadn’t heard before. To me he is a musical genius and when you have someone who has that in them they can at times spiral out of control and become self destructive as he did. After the 75 tour he did have flashes of brilliance with Zep but his addictions really started to show, he looked emaciated and unkept at times. After Zep he was in the Firm which let’s be honest was ok and had its moments but again his addictions were really bad during this period. His solo stuff was ok nothing to really brag about and the Page/ Plant stuff was more a nostalgia tour then anything and his tone and play were ok. If you really want to understand or hear someone teetering on the edge of there talents you’d have to listen to the live stuff from 69-75 and hear the progression of a player and a band forming into a juggernaut. The improvisation in the band during those years were incredible and you will never hear one song played the same way ever again after it was played on a particular night.
Tom, I too am a huge fan of Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin, and I think your comment is absolutely spot-on. And while the music Jimmy created is incredible, I often wonder what wondrous work he might have produced later in life had he avoided drug addiction.
your right there had he been like plant and jones he could have carried on into is early 70s doing great things but the drugs and bozze have done him in as a creative artist true is best years were from 66 to 1975 when he was truely focused
I saw some impressionist paintings years ago and going from 5 feet and stepping back to 15 feet it made the canvas create depth and emotion... live it was incredible, I was transported and transfixed it was just beautiful. I think your analogy is spot on! Thank you for another great video
For me Jimmy Page is like Jimi Hendrix, both introduced new angles to music, both creative and both influential to other guitarists and musicians. They actually did things which woke people up, which made the listeners say 'could play that part again...'. Whether they were technically brilliant would not make any difference to their particular novelty they introduced into music which created their popularity.
@@Rich-kp1eu Ah, I don't know about that. They're just so different that it' too hard to compare their technical skills. Hendrix is probably the most overrated guitar player in history! But of course, that's not his fault. It's just that the masses (bandwagoners) whom no nothing about playing guitar think that because they've been told that over the years (I also think it has something to do with him being black). Zakk Wylde may have described it best when he dubbed it the "Babe Ruth syndrome" after Rolling Stone put Jimi at number 1 on their All Time Best Guitarist list (which technically speaking, is absolutely ridiculous!) I mean, influence wise, it may be true, but reality wise, it's far from it. And like Page, Hendrix played pretty sloppy sometimes and also like Page, drugs probably played a big part in that. Plus, he depended a lot more on effects than did Page and often just made strange noises with them that didn't require much (if any) guitar playing skills but still highly impressed the non-musician masses. However, they're both great riff and songwriters despite their technical shortcomings. So they have much more in common that just their first names and the fact that they both became famous for playing the guitar. Don't get me wrong, I love Hendrix, but for his songwriting and singing abilities. In fact, I find him to be a much better singer than guitarist. And that's ironic, because Hendrix purportedly hated his own singing.
@@bassman5123 I only have on comment on this: All of the other guys you mentioned, Hendrix did it before they did. Hendrix is not overrated because he changed everything. He did things no one else ever did. The other guys were influenced by Hendrix, not the other way around. Page is just some guy, who wasn't very good technically.
This "sloppy" playing is one of the very reasons it's so hard to emulate his style perfectly. And I think the "dirt" is what's makes the music great. Because the early 70s was hairy and dirty, it was loose and cool, and I think Jimmy's playing perfectly portraits that.
This is silly, he was a sloppy player, to say he was doing it for effect and it's hard to emulate is rubbish, listen to any kid trying to shred beyond his ability and it's no different. Besides it's well known Jimmy had a heroin addiction and his sloppy playing became a lot worse during the late 70s. He was so bad he could barely record the necessary guitar on In through the out door. Not saying he wasn't a great guitar player but it was more in his creative ability rather then his great playing although his playing was good in his formative years
@@litgamer6205 I wasn't saying his technical skills were above and beyond, but he could have chosen the "safe" route and played something he fully mastered, anyone could sit down and make solos for all songs on Zeppelin II, but for the time (1969) they were pretty hot and intricate in the way he would phrase and articulate his licks. Ofc Hendrix and The Who, or even Deep Purple for that matter had the same idea at that time... Maybe that's why Townshend, Blackmore, Page and Hendrix are all considered among the greatest of all time, even though people like Guthrie Gowan or John Petrucci could by their flawless technique make any one of them their bitches in just one lick... But again, if guitar solos were buildings we would all honour the architect rather than the construction workers, meaning the value of creativity conquers the appreciation of the labour of the construction. But I think we're roughly on the same page (pun intended). Lmk if you're not, so I can go on an extended tantrum rant about how you're wrong, your music taste sucks, I'm superior, and maybe throw in something naughty about your mother that's not related to the subject.... Jk, have a nice day!
His work on Coverdale-Page gave me a new found , and a whole nother level of respect and admiration . His voicing of chords and phrasing as well as composition really moved me , to almost have a better understanding and appreciation of his earlier years.
We must also remember that Page had his guitar slung as low as any guitar player ever has had their guitar in that position. Access for both his left and right hand were insane. I believe from 73 to 77 he had it super low. Excellent and spot on commentary on this subject of Page. Your understanding of Page’s guitar playing is insightful. Thanks Carl
This. right. here. Really thought this was the exact point we reached decades ago. His session work/studio portfolio was always top notch professional. It's significance was known then as much as it is now. Live, he gave himself space to express, and did he ever, wearing that LP like the most badass gunslinger. Man, guitar players are such a bunch of overcritical egomaniacs. I hate them.
To quote Zappa’s commentary: wheedly-wheeeee…. wheedly-wheeeeee…. sorry, but what really sets the performers apart is those who crush it live. Page rarely did so after about 1971. He was too much bout the low-slung LesPaul, which IMO looked silly, and prancing around with Plant when he should have been playing the damn guitar. I’ll take Jeff Beck or Ritchie Blackmore over Page any day when it comes to live performances from that era
Such an interesting video. Content and delivery is fantastic. I think this one would make Jimmy smile! Led Zeppelin remains my all time favorite band since discovering music around 1970 (age11). After over-indulging in Zep for most of my life, I had to give them a rest for the last 15 years. Watching your videos has me revisiting all their albums once again (as are my neighbors!).
If Jimmy Page is sloppy, then I enjoy the sloppiness. I love when the notes bleed together. It’s grinding and brutal. I love it. It’s like the difference between someone cutting sheets of metal cleanly and the sound of metal being torn apart in an accident. The sound of the accident, when the metal starts making a high pitched scream. And it’s very satisfying.
I am no guitarist and not able to understand how difficult Page's guitar technique, but I could feel the emotion from his guitar even when I was just a kid listening to Since I've Been Loving You (recording version) or No Quarter Live in MSG 1973. Thanks for the video.
Great stuff and couldn’t agree more. It’s why I never argued Jimmy is the best, but rather my favorite guitarist because his playing hits me in way no other has ever done in my 50+ years on earth.
@@bassman5123 100% agree. Most of the “best” players overplay and/or just don’t write interesting stuff. I believe every note Jimmy plays because it’s coming from such an emotional place. Even when he did miss notes, it didn’t matter because I could hear what he intended to play. Much like when you can read a misspelled word.
A guitarist to whom I lent a Zeppelin live video commented Page made a lot of mistakes but it was only when reaching for the impossible . My colleague came away mightly impressed for all the reasons Carl discusses here.
Carl, another great video. The fact that everyone wants to sound like Jimmy and play his music says it all. No, he’s not the most technical, but we like songs because of the way they make us feel. Jimmy knew that.
Carl, this is an excellent dose of perspective & it really hits home. Thank you. A journalist once asked Herbie Hancock if he felt he was at the peak of his technique, & he said "I don't have time to practice my technique. Sure, I could be a better technical player, but I spend all my time at the keyboard learning & composing music."
Absolutely Outstanding Video!!! I’ll take Jimmy’s So Called Slop over Technically Perfect EVERY DAY of the week… I will say OTHAFA Live at MSG was kinda rough, at least to my ears. Your Channel is about to blow up, Carl… Keep The Vids Rolling…
@@tkn2597 Absolutely...love them both. Stairway is their opus. Idc what guitarist are better than page, he is magic, and that song and solo are the best these ears have heard.
Great analysis of Pages 'sloppiness'. It's interesting you mentioned Heartbreaker. To me, that 'sloppy' playing was masterful and added wonderful texture to the solo. There are many well trained technicians, but sometimes the purity and cleanliness just don't cut it. It's too nice and too clean.
Page was a genius. I learned guitar by listening to every album of LZ. Brilliant and emotional song writing. His years of session playing gave him the ability to stretch across boundless territory. If you want technical guitar playing, listen to the millions of you tube videos where clones play the same song over and over again, taken from a computerized loop or tab.
This is a good comment in my opinion. Who cares?This whole thing is subjective anyway. To be a session musician, (at least in London in the 60's), you had to turn up, play the chart you were given, and get it spot on. Your next session depended on it. No 'sloppiness' allowed. I feel he's made a choice and you all seem to know what that is. There is no point to music if it has no emotional quality. Great vocalists of the past are having their songs pitch corrected and auto-tuned now. What is happening with the singers parallels this discussion about a guitar player and music in general. Music is performed by flawed human beings, not robots, yet! We're moving towards a robotic and souless future, music included. The last sentence of Davids comment sums up the current situation well. To play all technical and flash at the expense of emotion is a waste of everyone's time. I think there is an element of jumping on a bandwagon on few music related things. Something his heard by someone, who the idea hadn't occurred too, and then they go around spouting off as though it were their idea! It's like a snowball rolling downhill, getting larger and larger. A lot of this stuff comes from those that weren't there at the beginning. So it fails to take into account the vibes that were culturally and socially prevalent at that time. Again, who cares if JP plays a certain way. What does it change?
When Jimmy Page preformed The song remains the same/The rain song with Led Zeppelin in 1973, that was a good example of the fact he wasn't sloppy due to a lack of skill. Those two songs were played clean and with passion, I've never seen someone shred on a 12 string guitar like he did.
I've always said there are many guitarists that are "better" than Page. But he is my favorite. All the magic comes from how he makes me feel, as if I know exactly how he feels at that very moment. It just gets to me like no other. And those freestyle solo rants are the stuff of legends. I've seen The Song Remains The Same at midnight shows in theaters countless times. There is moment during a solo that captures Bonham and Jones glancing at each other as if to say "where the hell is he going now?" I could have imagined it, I was usually in an altered state of awareness.
I could never understand the arguments with who is the best or my favorite is better then yours. Who cares, are we children fighting in a sandbox? Lol we have our favorite and be happy. If you don’t like a certain guitarist that’s fine also, just don’t bash someone’s favorite, it doesn’t make it right. I’m a Page guy and that’s why I picked up the guitar and I’m sure I’m not alone on that lol. I also love other greats as well. It is all in the music and what we enjoy.
Exactly! Jimmy P is my favorite all-around guitarist! He may not have been the, “best” in a particular aspect of playing, but he had such a broad pallet of sounds and textures including slide, acoustic work, different tunings, etc. He created art out of sound.
You guys are talking about that wonderful part during 'Dazed and Confused'. That part right there is when the song, and the guitar, was about to take us all for a sweet wild ride. God I love that movie! Best song ever, even 50 years later 🔥👍🔥
@@MJEvermore853 Are you going to San Francisco. Jimmy was playing, JPJ and Bonham was like what’s he doing? Lol then Plant came in with the San Francisco song.
Hi Carl, another great video! So glad you tackled this subject; often Jimmy's critics will use the word sloppy when describing his live playing. They expect a clean rehearsed "just like it sounds on the album" concert, like Rush live. But Led Zeppelin live is where the magic occurs, all the great risk taking and improvisation, like you said taking chances, stretching the song to new heights. Listen to Stairway to Heaven live or No Quarter live, my 2 favorite versions live are in one concert from 1975, Seattle, March 21st. Great examples of what you are saying. Did you get my prior links ok to this concert? I hope you enjoy it, happy listening!
Thanks, worthwhile analysis! This old Zep man offers four peak Page solos: his SRTS live "Stairway," his live "Over the Hills" and "No Quarter," and his "Heartbreaker" middle-section on the BBC recordings. (Also agree about HWWW's middle solo in "Whole Lotta Love," that long blues shuffle.) Just astonishing, and time will never touch them.
He could be sloppy at times. I thought it was mostly limited to times when he was soloing and trying to play a little faster than he probably should have been. The solo in "Heartbreaker" comes to mind. Most of his solos were excellent. His rhythm work and acoustic playing was always spotless, in my opinion. Excellent songwriter and producer. Overall outstanding guitarist.
That's really the only Zep song that he's not perfect. But the decision to use that solo most likely was because it had fire and emotion. It never made me wince to hear it. Just the opposite, it sounded like Page was caught up in the moment and let his emotions go.
@@scifiwriter98 * *David Treciak,* * C'mon brother. I love Led Zep but Imma-gonna-slappa-you-with-the-wet-spaghetti for saying that. - His "Moby Dick" on, The Song remains the Same album is *AWFUL.* Sure, it's not a solo but his fills are cringe.- Compared to the original studio recording? Yes, *AWFUL.*
@Jammin Clemmons I was going to mention that much of his live playing is sloppy, but I figured it was obvious and everyone was just using studio songs for examples.
"Of any guitarist, Jimmy Page was my biggest influence. I wanted to look, think and play like him. Zeppelin had a heavy influence on Rush during our early days. Page's loose style of playing showed an immense confidence, and there are no rules to his playing." -- Alex Lifeson
In the sixties and seventies, you were expected to improvise your solos and do something different each time. The vibe for guitarist and I think for musicians was much more of a jamming mindset. Jimi Hendrix is a great example of what it was like back then.
And to you Carl, sir, you did a great job explaining on how the way Jimmy Page played may it be sloppy or not. I hope you make a video on how David Crosby plays his guitar the way does with all those different tunings. At least sort of tribute video in his memory. Thank you.
I think that's what makes a great band, the risk, the dare, the improv. You never quite know what you're going to get. It keeps me excited and wanting to go back. How many times would you go and see a band play the same songs with the same rehearsed solos? Me, I want to be there when they risk all and nail it! This sloppy thing runs a bit thin. I feel It's the imperfections that make music real, organic and breathe, creates power, feeling and emotion. Keep up the great work.
I can't imagine going to a bar, listening to the band and saying "That guy is really sloppy, but it is probably because he is taking chances and pushing the envelope." It would be more like "This guy sucks."
I’d like to think that he’s one of the best guitar players ever. What makes him special is his confidence, swagger, and humility as both a person and a player. He’s got a signature sound that comes from his heart and fingers. I’ve sought after his tone for decades and sometimes hear it in other places. Listen to Chuck Berry on Johnny B Goode. Listen to the very last chord stabs at the formatta and you’re going to hear what Jimmy Page sought after. Perfection is boring. That’s why Creation is imperfect. It’s got variety and originality. It’s magical. Jimmy knew that mistakes led to moments of chaos that would result in beautiful creative moments. His other hobby was studying this science of chaos. Everyone is open to their own opinion and that’s beautiful because they will always have a chance to change. So maybe he is sloppy. It’s only a state of mind that’s holding ya back from being brave! Go for it like Little Jim, and create some magic!
I'd also say he stands out for the way he orchestrated different guitars and tones in a song. Mixing electric with acoustic, like Buffalo Springfield did on their best songs, is something I really miss from that era.
"How the west was won" proves that he was not sloppy at all. I believe in many cases he was just taking the piss and there is also a lot humor involved and pranks. Concepts long forgotten in this "really serious" age we're living. Also, after 73 -74 I think he did not care very much for the guitar as he did until then.
Well, it's not that he didn't care, it's that he got hooked on pain meds which led into heroin. Being stoned out of your wits has a poor effect on one's guitar playing. The Page critics can't seem to wrap their little heads around that problem. Most of them can't even read properly. When he wasnt on the hard stuff, he was always great.
@@MJEvermore853 Agreed, but what I really meant was that he focused more on composing and creating timeless and original music than strictly on being precise and technically proficient as he had done until then. After all this is a rat race no one wins and he must have felt that. He had nothing more to prove anyway. As far as the drugs, he didn't seem to slow down creatively at all
@@masterbluesrockguitar4966...very true...I just meant that his stage performance when downhill after the heroin began. But you're right, his creativity didn't slow down
Excellent 👏 The comparison to the Impressionists was a perfect analogy for Page’s soloing. I am a huge Page fan, and I suppose then it’s no coincidence that my favorite art belongs in the Impressionist category.
Back in the day when I listened to the live version of stairway to heaven at the msg I thought what's wrong with jimmi ? Why is he playing the solo like he was and not like the studio version which sounded like a 10/10 for me . But as I listened to it again amd again I realised how the slight sloppiness added more beauty to the whole composition in a way that was unmatched by the studio version . I still listen to the studio recoding sometimes but more often than not I go for the live version just because it has more character .
How dare anyone ask such a question of Jimmy Page?! It's called playing with "emotion ", losing yourself in the moment. Let's bask in Father Pages brilliance!
@@tonymcnamara9368 I can play most of his music, I didn't write it though. Page is only human. He has two arms, ten fingers, and his brain. If he can do it, you can do it. Try to play better than Page.
In Toronto they use to play the Song Remain The Same Movie every Saturday , you had a few tokes watch it on a massive screen they even had large speakers in the theater so it made you feel that you were at the show, watching Jimmy the passion sweat he was on a different planet, Ritchie Blackmore made a comment about Hendrix always searching for notes, with your video I get it , the imperfection is actually the real art, its from the soul, you have players that are perfect but it's the players that were imperfect and beautiful are the most influential musicians in music, so just play the damn guitar who knows where it will lead you, be creative and just be yourself,
@@canadianintheukbrian hi, the Danforth was live music , if my memory serves correct. The films were shown at the Roxy theatre, which also was on Danforth Avenue. 😊. Great times
@@stratolestele7611...they act like every solo he played was crap. The stupidity is astounding. I've got every show that was ever recorded....sloppy solos were few and far between. They became more prevalent when he was on heroin, but only because he was high as hell and almost completely out of it some of the time. They are judging his playing while he was up there on stage with an overwhelming heroin /cocaine/Jack Daniels cocktail running through his veins. And speaking of Clapton, he was an awful junkie as well..... he couldn't even stand up to play at his own shows! At least Jimmy could still jam a bit and didn't need a broomstick to prop himself up.
I saw the movie the Song Remains the Same in the 70's and I guess I was about 14 years old. I remember how excited we were as we lined up outside the Roxy theater in Toronto to see it because me and my pals all loved Zeppelin. About 3/4 of the way thru the movie it suddenly hit me 'is he still going?' 'how much music does this man have inside him?'. Every solo, every song was a different musical journey and I was completely swept up in it. I love Jimmy Page!
This is absolutely right on. There are versions of some live songs where Jimmy Page pulls a gem out of a hat. He takes you on an adventure trip, sometimes through a rabbit hole where he knows the way.
He also wrote hell of a lot of great songs, and other guitar critics would’ve loved to of written two or three of them. That’s why I love to watch him live more than any other
no he didnt! they copied or "covered" a lot of old blues tunes there's nothing more disturbing than to hear from some clown who has never heard of Willy Dixon?
@@richieg8432 2 ears 2 eyes and that's probably all a member of the watch and listening audience requires. what's your secret? I'm thinking you'd like to have him Decorate your tonsils...
I remember a quote from Jimmy saying that with Zeppelin he always was pushing the musical envelope and would never play "safe music." He took untold amounts of risks and most of the time he pulled it off but occasionally during live improvisations he might get a bit "sloppy."
I've often thought that JP was a kind of impressionist; but I never heard anyone else actually say it. It's done with feeling, and that's the most important thing. Thanks.
Hey Carl! Page has only been described as "sloppy" since the mid-80s or so with the explosion of rock sub-genres (death metal, grindcore...), and the rage among guitarists became sheer technique. But it's not MUSIC if all you are playing an exotic scale over a weird set of chord changes at 160 BPM and 125 dB and there is no song/composition.
Yes he had his moments of "sloppines" OCCASIONALLY on some live recordings. I've always attributed it to him trying too hard to fill out the sound of a 3 piece band with no second guitar, to get it to sound fuller like what is on the records. Your explanation here is very valid I think. I never gave a second thought to it, and apparently neither did millions of fans around the world that packed their shows in the 1970s!
You need to watch Live Aid, the ARMS shows, etc,. He can hardly play at all compared to the other guitarists, no he's been sloppy for years, the only reason it matters is Page is consistently ranked higher than guys who would simply blow him off the stage, and Page is always blaming faulty monitors or not rehearsing enough for his sloppiness when he's just not that good a soloist I've been listening for 40 years and he is at times dreadful when he takes a solo, but he has made that his style and it works for him
@@scottblanton5220 Well I tend to agree that he's overrated as a live player/soloist, but as a songwriter and studio player he's practically unrivaled.
@@blib3786 he can be solid in the studio, but it's live performing that really defines a player, can you imagine Eric Clapton not performing live only being a studio guitarist? Page was fortunate enough to be surrounded by a lot of talant and he stole alot also, never giving those he stole from much or any credit, I mean Dazed and Confused is by a guy named Jake Holmes. Black Mountain Side is pretty much stolen from Bert Jansch, etc, it goes on and on
A great comparison, and I've long thought that people calling Jimmy sloppy were looking at his work at little too closely instead of standing back and taking it all in. Or maybe they were just jealous they could never attain that level of ZEN. Breathing in and out, moving across the stage as his fingers danced across the fretboard for half an hour at a time. Without seeming to give it a thought. That is a sublime Genius.
Yes, absolutely. It's one of the hallmarks of his approach. He definitely had the ability to play cleanly, but for many of his live performances he chose a relatively rough, swing-for-the-fence posture. I love it. He's my favorite rock guitarist, and one of the great creative geniuses of pop music.
What seems to be sloppiness is just Page’s style, he plays loose and lets his fingers fly without caring over every off sound, that’s the magic of Jimmy Page
I'd rather be Jimmy Page than any of the virtuosos. Page has been a part of so many great compositions, performances, productions, arrangements, grooves, riffs, songs and solos than any virtuoso I can think of. Keep your maximum execution and polish.
@@tridibbiswas3824 - Oh right, OK! I'm going to re evaluate Burt Jansch on the strength of what Page did to his music. Page took it, knocked the shit out of it on an acoustic 12-string thus inventing "HEAVY METAL" - I've despised him my whole musical life for that inept act of sloppiness!
Jimmy Page grew up being influenced by American Rockabilly and Chicago blues players. Were such masters as Chuck Berry or Howlin' Wolf sloppy? No. Because they play for feeling, and did it in a way that drew you in and kept you entranced. That is why they were and still are loved and revered today. Same goes for Led Zeppelin, only at a much greater level for most of us. (BTW, good video)
Hi Carl, I very much identify with your comments on Jimmy's playing. "Originality exists when a work of art is identifiable with its creator" is a brilliant statement, thanks for sharing it!
It's like when you hear Jimmy Page in the guitar solos of the 77' tour thanks to soundboards and audience recordings. The theremin section and the harmonizer effect is amazing. I think those are the details that critics forget. In the video of Seattle 07 17 1977 you can see that game between the guitar and the theremin... greetings Carl from Chile.
I think this leads to a good point: when people talk about how, if you take too many lessons or learn too much theory, you start to sound just like everyone else. And it's true, I CAN hear people's lessons. Take Tim Pierce for example. He's super conscious of his playing being TOO tight. And I've quit watching him because, for all his technique, I find his playing too boring. This is the same reason rock in general has lost its popularity. When we put the beat to a grid, we lost the humanity, the emotional appeal, the passion behind the song. That is why I tend to leave my timing mistakes. I tend to leave wrong notes. I tend to leave artifacts, dynamics, everything that works. Of course I have to nudge some things sometimes, on every instrument. Sometimes the lyrics come in way too late, but before I put them in exactly the right place I first experiment with how late I can get away with leaving them. There are two secret ingredients to Zeppelin's success that are both dramatically under-sung: call-and-response, whether it be in the riff itself or in the interaction of the drums and bass with the lead guitar or in the live ad lib vocal and guitar interplay; and of course the deep, passionate feel of every member. Bonham's swing is natural, even perhaps not deliberate; Page's attack is PRECISELY out-of-place, just when and where it needs to be in order to be that much more evocative. Zeppelin has for a third of a century been the ONLY band that blows my mind the way they do. Nobody else speaks to me on that level. Thanks for this. I'm loving your channel! I think your videos are going to make MY future content better!
I've heard other artists play their solos note for note just as recorded. Don Felder on Hotel California comes to mind. Never heard Page doing that live while playing Stairway to Heaven.
That's weird cause in the most viewed live version of Hotel California, it seems Felder doesn't play it note for note, maybe you've seen a different version to me though
It’s a great observation that Page is an impressionist/expressionist player. He was always a clean player on the acoustic. During the solos he often tried to play beyond his abilities and he failed sometimes. The risks didn’t always work but boy when they did! Also, from ‘73 onward he had hand & strength issues which contributed to his sloppiness! GREAT POST Carl!
It’s so refreshing to hear a guitarist draw a line between guitarists and the history of art. If only more TH-camrs were as intelligent as you. Well done!
The "sloppiness live" argument quickly falls apart when listening to the 10min Stairway to heaven solo of 1973. If that does convince people, i don't know what to say! PS: beautiful video Sir!
If Jimmy stood still like a statue (Clapton and Blackmore come to mind), then his playing would have been closer to perfection. If you watch his live performances, he is everything but stationary.
He moved the stage and had the coolest look and sound. He also would engineer how the band sounded live and in the studio. Not many guitarists have accomplished that. It's not only chords, Riffs and solos, it was the music all put together.
@@filipstefanovski155 I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I saw Blackmore 3 times only. He was not as mobile as Page, but was not as locked in to one spot on stage as Clapton. And if you move around like Page did with that extra heavy double neck (and the Les Paul is a heavy guitar as well) as opposed to a stratocaster, you can see my perspective.
Blackmore playing like a statue 🤣😅 .. and Page playing like a clown .. Blackmore didn't need a fake hand injury before every US tour to hide the fact that he could play well. Him ..
@@itslikethesamebutdifferent8020 they are patently superior players. they simply may not have the musicality and creativity of Jimi and Jimmy when it comes to writing hits or great compositions.
@@RobertMJohnson - everyone has their own style thru which to project their musical ideas. I do agree that Page wrote riffs like no one else and his ability to create music using alternate tunings is second to none. Hendrix was from another planet entirely which is why Clapton, Beck, Page and every other guitar player at that time were so awestruck at his unique style which in turn influenced them and everybody else. Virtuosos May not write hits like them but they are technically better musicians and that is a bigger yardstick thru which to measure music, not writing hits.
I understand what people mean when they say he was "sloppy". Sometimes, he did seem to be "out on a limb" somewhere, but to my ear he never seemed to completely "fall off", and it always seemed to fit the moment somehow, even if there were things to "nitpick". His playing was always extremely "dramatic", and I think that "drama" almost compels the artist to not be "technically perfect". Zep's music had power and mystery unlike any other of their contemporaries, so whatever Page was doing seemed to work pretty well, didn't it?
I get a kick out of when these guys (Page, Garcia, Hendrix, etc.) get called sloppy. People who say these things dont understand art and live music. These guys are the Masters. If I get called sloppy while jamming I'm going to take it as a lovely compliment. Also, your quote at the end is spot on!
Jerry was indeed sloppy at times, muffing notes that would have been compositionally brilliant if he had played them cleanly. There's a seque between Darkstar and St. Stephen on one of the Dick's Picks that's beautiful and delicate and would have been just about perfect had Garcia not hit a clam in the middle. He never really liked the tape traders because he said that when listening to recordings of his live playing he would hear what he was trying to play. Like Bobby Browning said, " Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?." Jerry could also be pretty self-indulgent, knowing that the band would follow him anywhere, even to musical dead ends. I say those things as a huge fan who saw him play live lots of times. Then there were so many times when the band was firing on all cylinders and his solos reached past the stratosphere.
he is not sloppy, technical guitarists create an illusion that guitar must be play like them. Ears can hear the difference emotion between technique. Emotions always win. That's how music works.
I never heard that comment before about emotion, thank you. If Clapton were recorded as much as Page he'd have more lackluster performances, and yes he too makes mistakes. The early 80's and Junkie years are what hurts Jimmy, but only because everything he did was recorded. Nobody was bootlegged more and back in the 70's, you'd get one or two rock artists for the year, apart from almost every LZ show. And to his credit, whilst a junkie, when he did fall off with timing or something, he came back in spades. Nobody else can say this. Everyone gets worse or fails, Jimmy is the only one I can find that always fought back successfully. Except for that one time in Chicago when he got "food poisoning". You take the good with the bad with a player who plays like him because without one you cannot have the other. Derek Jeter could have hit more home runs if he swung for them, but he wanted to get 3k hits. I wouldn't have it any other way and it is sad players don't play that way today in both baseball and on guitar, and neither practiced. They both warmed up, but never did the drills on off days. If you look at his Page & Plant performances, Jimmy Page is out there proving it once again and again topping himself with most of his performances as they go on. With the Black Crowes album he shows how technically proficient he can be when he doesn't have to carry the entire load like he normally prefers, and maybe in his fifties he was ready to settle into that role, but the Robinsons did not want to record with him and he didn't want to be a revival act. Another example of how Jimmy will do anything as long as it's real, and nothing at all if it ain't.
I saw Clapton in '82 in Vancouver BC and it was the most lackluster performance by any of the "great' guitarists that I have ever seen. Clapton just seemed to be going through the motions and staying "safe". I have seen Johnny Winter 4 times and he makes Clapton look like an amateur. I much prefer a guitarist that plays with emotion than technical perfection always, which is one of the many reasons that Jimmy Page has always been my favorite.
I saw Page opening night of the Black Crowes /Page tour and he was spot on and over the top that night. I had heard at times he could be "Hit or Miss". He hit it out of the park that performance. You could see it on his face after the third encore. All smiles and humbly thanking the crowd.
When I listen to his solos, I feel like I am running on a moving walkway effortlessly gliding forward with every steps. Solos from some other (great) artists make me feel like my feet are moving fast but I am not moving forward much at all.
The world is filled with great technical guitar players. They are not a dime a dozen, but maybe a buck a dozen. Jimmy is/was an ARTIST which is WAY WAY more important than being a musician or a technician.
Jimmy has said in the past, and with a smile, that he never played scales. So the idea of him sitting at home and practicing scale/arpeggio exercises was always a no go. Where he excelled and where his playing made great strides was with a band behind him, whether on stage or in studio, with the Yardbirds and early Led Zeppelin. Most of LZ II was recorded during the LZ I tour. So in the span of six months he laid down his most iconic work, inspired by constant touring and recording. After the success of LZ II, the band became so immense that constant touring using smaller venues was no longer possible or even necessary, from a financial standpoint. It was at this point that Page's skills started to decline; playing out in front of audiences on a constant basis was not happening. And since he didn't "practice" the guitar in a conventional sense, his skills started to erode. Duke Ellington once said that if a musician doesn't practice for a day, he knows it. If he doesn't practice for two days, his bandmates know it. And if he doesn't practice for three days, his audience knows it. And that is precisely what happened to Page.
How serendipitous this video came in my suggestions, as I literally was discussing this very topic a mere few hours ago with a HUGE Page/Zap fan. Great analysis, Carl. As an artist and musician, I find your analogy perfect for the topic.
@@CarlBaldassarreMusic I'm a clasically-trained painter/sculptor in the style of the Old Masters through Impressionism (though I find the American Impressionists utilized diffused color without sacrificing form, as in some Boston School painters.) I'm an aspiring musician, as well. I was impressed with your understanding of fine art and your correlation to make your musical analogy. I hope we can connect one day soon. Thanks for your inspiration, Carl.🙏
![The Song Led Zeppelin Could Never Recreate Live: Ten Years Gone [Song Breakdown]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1flLoy9VXtk/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't care about show off virtuoso playing, I care about the joy of music. Jimmy Page conjures so much music and melody from his playing, and I suspect that was his focus.
The folks who say he’s sloppy haven’t enjoyed the success he has. He knows every tuning there is . It’s insane the amount of musical knowledge he has.
@guy man men Just like everyone else in the 70s, whats the point- It has nothing to do with his playing!
Young girls and heroin were a focus too
@guy man men jimmy page is no different to anyone else at the time conjuring underage girls 😂
@guy man men You're really a simpleton.
His acoustic playing is a testament to his precision, but live they were a jam band, always reinventing and reimagining songs and Jimmy was improvising, letting the music flow through him.... it wasn't about being well rehearsed and perfect, it was about living in the moment. Even in the studio he often winged it on takes and was able to listen to them and keep ones that fit the song even if they had imperfections, being a perfectionist can hold a person back from reaching for the sky sometimes.
okay: that sounds fair enough...i'll allow it... haha~
[precision? isn't there a bass-for-that?]
cream jammmed and was never sloppy
zeppelin is good when they where in studio
Page laid down some simple, yet memorable riffs, played on some classic songs with a stellar band, but was an absolutely unabashed plagiarist, marring his legacy.
There were dozens of nontechnical (and many more technical-approach players) guitarists, even from his era, who may not have read music, but more skilled (hybrid picked, finger-picked, played slide) and infused passion and fire into their music, with much broader repertoires. It’s a long list.
Like Hendrix (who’s revered with so much hyperbole, repetitious “he’s the greatest that ever was, and will be”) Led Zepplin and Jimmy Page as well, simply don’t measure up to the legend status that their fans create.
His acoustic work on "I'm gonna leave you" was anything but precise. I'm stunned he left so many dead notes on the final cut. Really unprofessional.
The modern day guitar wizards (technicians) bore me to tears. Yes, they can rip across the fretboard at hyperspeed and play all the scales and modes without mistakes, but it all leaves me cold. It's like listening to a fantastic typist. Jimmy Page penned so many incredible songs AND produced the recordings. In his live solos, he had the guts to just go for it. He was playing spontaneously as opposed to the current ilk who play lines they've practiced a thousand times.
Alan Holdsworth and Frank Zappa.
I have to disagree. I was never impressed with Page. They wrote some good songs, but there is a reason this question is being asked, and it is because Page was a sloppy guitar player.
Agree. How many Allman Bros, Lynryd Skynyrd, ZZ Top, Creedence songs can you hum all day long? How many Steve Vai, Satriani, etc?
@@Rich-kp1eu I have to disagree with you, do play guitar? Jimmy page is great guitar player
@@nickefgen9219 I have played guitar for more than 40 years. Page may have had some good ideas, but he never bothered to put in the work to make it sound really good.
It was as if he listened to all of the B.S. people said about him, so effort was not needed.
Led Zeppelin wrote some good songs, but mainly Page was a mediocre guitar player.
Led Zeppelin is one of those bands that sounded good in the studio, but sucked live. Name a song where Page has the virtuosity you all keep saying he has
I remember when the band Kiss were looking for replacements for Ace Frehley and Gene Simmons said they were seeing all these incredible fast & technical players who were amazing but had zero soul. Sometimes the magic happens when there are imperfections. Jimmy Page had that magic ability when playing live to go on adventures when playing. Maybe some see it as sloppy because your not hearing what was produced in studio. I love the live Page playing, it's always a wild ride that's also incredibly enjoyable. I've said before Pages playing was like trips into the musical wilderness of a song. If it's sloppy playing I say we need lots more sloppy players these days.
Amen
I already knew about this but one time I saw a video of a kid asking Robben Ford what was the craziest band that you've ever played with and he said he played on the Creatures Of The Night Kiss Record but never got any credit for it and was way more soulful than any of the Kiss members and blew them out of the water. Now he plays with soul and feeling.
He was sloppy in recordings. This man is a liar. I counted 7 mistakes in a single solo in a studio recording. Probably one of the worst solos i have ever heard on the radio. It was pathetic. "I deal in emotions" is a cheap ass cop out. Page was overrated.
It was definitely sloppy. Plenty of guitar players that can improvise and still sound like they're competent.
I agree his talent is endless but he is a bit sloppy to me. Sorry. I hear mistakes on LZ I but the entire band not just Page
My band mates and I referred to Page as the King of Slop. Yes, when playing live, he could be sloppy as hell but when he slips into playing the intro to Since I've Been Loving You at The Garden in ´73, and he plays that entire song absolutely flawlessly, that is proof positive that Page was the best on Earth when he decided to be.
At that time all players in the rock scene were like that. Distortion wasn't in a place where it could mask picking. There was always a little hack in everyones playing.
that's why recording studios were invented: because so-called-live music sucks~ haha~
but seriously: isn't it remarkable, how much trash can be talk'd, that's all's that's possible and it means... well, whatever-you-say-it means, right? haha~
@@DMDvideo10 frack-all-that: y'can't beat the guitah gods: of course tony iommi puts those snobs-to-shame, so t'speak, haha....right up thru 1980 at least~
@@tinfoilhatter For me Iommi was the first heavy metal guitarist... The best guitarist from the seventys was EVH... Hands down...
@@DMDvideo10 well he's great, yeah, but in terms of songs, riffs, the art, man, eddie's great but luckily it's not a competition, because there's always someone better depending on how you listen... and where , no matter when... eddie was great but he really didn't have all that many songs or 'tricks' , anyway, most people are two-dimensional and clueless anyway so who cares what-we-all-say, haha
It's kind of like asking if Vincent van Gogh was sloppy. Of course, and so was Jimi Hendrix. All iconic artists. Let's just say it didn't hurt them much.
It probably had a lot to do with drinking too much.
van Gogh is sloppy? Did you stick forks into your eyes? Jimi Hendrix was sloppy? "All iconic artists" are sloppy? Your thinking is sloppy.
@@vilyanaria9230 "Sloppy" is not a word that is any way accurate to describe Impressionist painting. Modernism didn't upset the academic establishment because it was "sloppy." And please point me to a piece of music where Jimi Hendrix plays wrong notes. Orchestral musicians can indeed be sloppy, especially when they're performing the work of a composer that they do not respect, e.g., John Cage. Cage has spoken about that. As for Jimmy Page, he himself has said that he allowed sloppy playing with obvious mistakes to be left on recordings. One must remember that Jimmy Page was on heroin for over 25 years. If you look at footage of Page playing at the 1983 Arms Benefit concert, he's completely stoned out of his brain, which very much accounts for his "loose, sloppy style." Robert Fripp, for example, can play very precisely and rigorously,, and he is also capable of wild, loose and free extemporizing when the music calls for it.
Just admit Jimmy was "pickin' his feet in Poughkeepsie" for 5 yrs....doing junk
@@nikkinonose9316 Hey Nikki No Nose, I took care of that thing downtown with the kid for ya. It's all straightened out. Jimmy the Junkie was well into the needle for almost thirty years. If it had been only five, he wouldn't have played so sloppy for so long! I appreciate the French Connection reference--well done.
Jimmy Page is one of the greatest composers of melodic and unforgettable guitar solos and riffs. Millions of people can remember his solos note for note.
UNDENIABLE TRUTH
Not to mention his acoustic playing. One of the greats.
The only thing Page composed is Hot Dog. For the rest, all he played were covers.
Millions of people remember his solo's. Only one doesn't: Jimmy himself
@@rejdrouin that's bullshit
I find that his sloppiness occurs when he’s playing simple pentatonic passages, but his technique is perfect on intricate acoustic passages. You never hear any mistakes on acoustic numbers, studio or live. When playing solos live, he’s stretching the limits of the pentatonic scales and his imagination. Sometimes his technique just can’t catch up, but he creates excitement. He orchestrates your emotions.
Well said !
Yes
Agree
He is INCREDIBLE acoustic player and this is I feel truly underrated. As far as his electric playing is concerned, are we talking sober or high Page? Definitely he struggled at times when under the influence (heroin, alcohol, or both). And he was definitely “experimental” live, especially during the days of arrogance and self-indulgence that was Led Zeppelin. Plant specifically asked him not to deviate from the studio solo for Stairway when they did it at the 02. I think also his tendency towards a “fat guitar” tone especially for live performance can be misunderstood as “sloppy” on solos.
@Brent An all acoustic album would be a perfect project for him at this stage…
I would describe his style as "choppy" rather than sloppy. There are so many guitarists who are very legato in their solos but page was more staccato and it always felt like he was playing on the edge. But unlike a choppy amateur, Page played so far in the pocket that it sounded huge. A very unique combination.
I only interjection is heartbreaker
I saw Zeppelin in ‘73, ‘75, ‘77……no one ever thought all of these concerts would be preserved on the internet to be studied to the depth they were. They just weren’t constructed to be fine works of art that the albums were. Just listened to Physical Graffiti again, what a treasure.
Wow you are so lucky… I would give anything to have seen them in their prime
Ten years gone off that album is the best song I’ve ever heard by them
The man is a national treasure. The tone, the riffs, the songs and the entire Led Zep package still blows my mind. Even the so called inaccurate solos had a vibe about it because he is a natural and meant to be who he is.
it's called ruckin'-row-for-a-reason, jeeves: because he does-it-with-ease~
He played like a train just barely riding the tracks about to derail at any moment and that is his appeal.
He just held it together playing at the edge of his limits while displaying an
Imagination with no barriers.
Great analysis! And I'd much rather have Jimmy Page's "sloppy" style than be one of those technical wizards whose music you'd have to pay me to listen to.
Right. In the end, who sells more records, Steve Vai or Led Zeppelin?
exactly.....:-)
It’s not who sells more records . Garth Brooks sold more records than anyone for a while does that make him more talented or musically relevant ? Now Garth was a popular country artist but Jimmy Page Zeppelin? That’s like True Grit beating midnight cowboy for best picture of 1969 popular doesn’t equate to merit . Peace to all
I completely agree with you,
true
Impressionism is a musical movement as well, yet nobody would call Ravel or Satie “sloppy” because they’re deliberate about their art. They’re not just blasting the pentatonic scale off beat and off key as fast as they can.
I've always associated Jimmy's playing with raw emotion, the guy is simply one of, or simply... the best at it.
Gilmour is another emotional player, but with him you would be hard pressed to find any sloppiness in his work, that is for sure. He is like a brain surgeon.
Yes I agree .. if Gilmore played the solo different there would be a riot.. most fans know every note in his solo.. & he gave them what they wanted. Jimmy was not that type of player & if you went to their concerts expecting a studio version, you would be disappointed.. so he’s more of an artist on stage & technician in the studio.
i would respectfully call gilmour less of a technician, and more of a, uh, specialist i guess: specialisin' in the easiest-of-techniques, but excellin' in these
Gilmour & page have totally different styles .. i find gilmour to be a much slower player
And I totally agree with that. It's sort of like the difference between Neil Peart and John Bonham or even or even Keith Moon. Neil was super precise and never seemed to hit a wrong drum. But Keith Moon especially was a wild man and wasn't too worried about precision ;-)
@@phpmaven Ah man… Peart to me.. may have been the best that ever was. RIP Neil.
I just assumed it was his style…I never thought of his playing as sloppy. His solo on “Since I’ve Been Loving You” is brilliant.
I studied classical guitar from age 9 until 16 and from then on dumped it for the energy and excitement of rock and roll. If you want precision - look at classical - if you want a reason to lose your shit and drown in excitement, then Mr Page and many others from his generation will be happy to provide. Sloppy? Pah... the electric guitarists around in the last few decades that are considered virtuosos bore the living daylights out of me. I'll take the sloppiness of rock and roll forever :)
Listen to the heartbreaker solo. There is no way around the obvious sloppiness but it is great and I wouldn’t change a single note.
Vladimir Horowitz, a classical pianist, is my favorite musician of all time and LZ is my favorite band. You made me aware of some similarities between Page and Horowitz in their approach to their instruments. Horowitz said that the music was behind the notes, and his critics often accredited his success to his on-stage histrionics (going rapidly from from triple pianissimo to triple forte), which is funny because he was a stoic performer with terrible stage freight; the emotions were conveyed through his fingertips. Check out his recording of Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No. 15, Rakoczi March. He pushes the piano to its sonic limits. Great stuff Carl! Your videos are the most articulate explanations of Zeppelin and Page’s style
His performance in Moscow is 1 of the all time greatest.
I love the fact that Page and Zeppelin were big fans of improvising and trying to keep things fresh instead of stale. Did it always work? No, but when it did it was absolute magic. The Song Remains the Same dvd in MSG is absolutely electric and Page is completely on fire during. If you want note for note perfection, you can listen to their records. Improvising and changing things up live adds so much to the excitement and live experience. I’ve seen bands live that play their music 100% note for note which is nice and they’re talented for doing so, but the concerts were kind of boring. I was just like I’ve heard all of this before 100’s of times on the record. Nothing is different.
Led Zep was reportedly one of the most bootlegged recording acts ever. Their risk-taking improvisational high wire act was probably a big contributing factor.
Exactly my thoughts. Also, Page (and all of Zep) was a phenomenal live performer.
I've always considered Led Zep to be a phenomenal band live and studio but Plant's recollection of the band being "The Band of Nods" in regards to their improve live performances make me laugh so much
I saw Led Zeppelin in Baton Rouge, La back in 1977. Page definitely fumble fingered a hand full of notes. The average drunk and stoned fan back then would never notice it. I saw him again in 1986 with The Firm. His playing was absolute perfection.
People that give him crap about sloppiness dont understand the blues. He may have hit a rough patch with the heroin and alcohol but he got back on track with the Firm and when he played with the Black Crowes. Then when Page and Plant toured. He redeemed himself
Ritchie Blackmore talked about the perfection of Joe Satriani, which he admired but wasn't a big fan of, had similar slant on things, though slightly a different perspective. He said if you never play bad notes, never make mistakes, you are not reaching for the emotional highs that make music interesting. It's why he loved and was inspired by Hendrix and others that were always "searching" , "reaching" for something emotionally unique. I agree with this...it's why I don't mind hitting bad notes and not studying music that much 🤣 and yeah, occasional sloppiness.
Fun fact: you just described yngwie malmsteen
Yes and I think Blackmore was the best of this generation of guitarists
@@Soldano999 Hardly, he was polished and boring as fuck.
@@Soldano999 what? you just distinguished yourself as someone who needs to listen or read-it-again, jeeves
oops: there's no 'bad' notes, but only to 'hit' or rather 'play' appropriate notes/chords/passages/bits, and with no more, nor less force than necessary, is a matter of great deliberation and discipline that the pages, malmsteens, and the satrianis exemplify rather peerlessly and fearlessly, but seldom very carelessly, and occasionally vicariously _perhaps_ ...
It’s the sloppiness and wildness that makes him great. You have to ask yourself, how many memorable solos did great technicians like Satriani or Vai have? 🤷♂️
The other thing with Jimmy was that he didn’t hide behind a ton of gain in his signal. He mainly relied on volume and naturally overdrive. Consequently we can hear clearly every time his fingers aren’t perfectly in the fret or maybe his right and left hand are a nano second off from each other. Many of the shredder type players smooth those things out with a ton of gain and compression. With Jimmy you can hear all the mechanics of his playing like his pick clicking against the strings or his fingers sliding. For instance on the studio Since I’ve Been Loving You, you can almost hear the sound of his Volume knob being turned as he starts to really dig in on that intro part.
They hide behind Distortion. Gain is more towards feedback. Compression is a sound effect like taking analog and making it sound like the line is going out of a tube amp. It's not meant to distort mistakes. He didn't rely on any natural overdrive. I agree with the rest of your comment. He does make it raw and crisp because he mostly played out of the front pickup(treble). That was his style. The way he mixed fast and slow picking and the crisp clean sound made it very alluring to listen to. A high clean sound. He also used stereo effect but the signals were minimal much of the time
@@joefox9765 Yeah I didn’t want to get too technical. Almost every Distortion pedal or Lead channel on an amp has a knob called Gain. That’s the sound I’m referring to. That super fuzzed out distortion and if you have a Compressor pedal and you crank that Sustain knob it makes it gets even smoother.
@@djfrank68 👍
The only thing I can think you are saying there is a big difference at blurring a mistake live verse in the studio. Many live recordings have been edited. Your statement didn't make much sense. If they are sloppy players or beginners then yeah use a bunch of distortion and delay and gain and whatever else 🤪
I honestly think Hendricks was doing this while playing live early on. Experimented with all kinds of things The Star-Spangled Banner was just amazing. What creativity and Mastery of it all. He is not the only one of course. His style was just unique
@@djfrank68 I'll tell you something about effects. Like the rest of us, Eric Johnson said he was getting lost and experimenting with so many tones and effects that he lost his original tone that made him. So he went back to his roots. The very beginning of his original tone that put him over the top and he hasn't deviated sense. This was a span of 35 years. Something to think about
@@joefox9765 "Compression is a sound effect like taking analog and making it sound like the line is going out of a tube amp". Huh? what the hell are you on about there? You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to audio compression...
Please don't talk out your ass if you are going to call other people wrong.
For me his "sloppy" solos in "Since I've Been Loving You", "D'Yer Mak'er", "Tangerine" let alone "The Song Remains The Same" easily worth ALL of the technically perfect , but mindless and soulless metal solos put together. And i've always regarded LZ impressionism.
Yeah. SINCE I'VE BEEN LOVING YOU at the Madison Square Garden, that solo...OH my God...That "sloppines" no one ever will play nearly as good as that !!!
That performance of Since I've Been Loving You is an absolute ride. You feel spent by the last note. I think that's where the camera pans to a single girl in the crowd and she's like "wowwwwwww". She sums it up exactly.
Meh alot of slop n repetition...
@@chickentwisties2298 wash your ears
@@zelejazz Do not feed the trolls mate. I love Jimmy Page's "sloppiness" as well - it makes the music a lot rawer and more expressive.
I'd love to hear the music of the people calling him sloppy. Jimmy is a legend with great feel/swagger in his playing.
As a life long Led Zep fan I believe Jimmy Page’s prime was from 69-75. After that time frame his addictions really started to affect his performances. His style of play was his own because he was self taught and with his work in sessions and having to adapt to different genres of music it made him become the player we have come to know. IMO in his prime he was the best in the world because his raw emotion, feel and improvisation was second to none. He was a writer, arranger, producer, performer, and pioneer into using different forms of music and melding them into new things we hadn’t heard before. To me he is a musical genius and when you have someone who has that in them they can at times spiral out of control and become self destructive as he did. After the 75 tour he did have flashes of brilliance with Zep but his addictions really started to show, he looked emaciated and unkept at times. After Zep he was in the Firm which let’s be honest was ok and had its moments but again his addictions were really bad during this period. His solo stuff was ok nothing to really brag about and the Page/ Plant stuff was more a nostalgia tour then anything and his tone and play were ok. If you really want to understand or hear someone teetering on the edge of there talents you’d have to listen to the live stuff from 69-75 and hear the progression of a player and a band forming into a juggernaut. The improvisation in the band during those years were incredible and you will never hear one song played the same way ever again after it was played on a particular night.
Tom, I too am a huge fan of Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin, and I think your comment is absolutely spot-on. And while the music Jimmy created is incredible, I often wonder what wondrous work he might have produced later in life had he avoided drug addiction.
Very astute comment.
your right there had he been like plant and jones he could have carried on into is early 70s doing great things but the drugs and bozze have done him in as a creative artist true is best years were from 66 to 1975 when he was truely focused
@@roywatson8133 And yet, Presence from 76 had brilliant guitar work. Just amazing.
yes but the album was recorded in late 1975 @@dimitrisparaschakis3280
I saw some impressionist paintings years ago and going from 5 feet and stepping back to 15 feet it made the canvas create depth and emotion... live it was incredible, I was transported and transfixed it was just beautiful. I think your analogy is spot on! Thank you for another great video
For me Jimmy Page is like Jimi Hendrix, both introduced new angles to music, both creative and both influential to other guitarists and musicians. They actually did things which woke people up, which made the listeners say 'could play that part again...'. Whether they were technically brilliant would not make any difference to their particular novelty they introduced into music which created their popularity.
Hendrix was much better technically than Page.
@@Rich-kp1eu but as creative inventors they were on the same scale
@@luznis139 I can't agree with that. Hendrix was a musical genius, I would not put Page in that category.
@@Rich-kp1eu Ah, I don't know about that. They're just so different that it' too hard to compare their technical skills. Hendrix is probably the most overrated guitar player in history! But of course, that's not his fault. It's just that the masses (bandwagoners) whom no nothing about playing guitar think that because they've been told that over the years (I also think it has something to do with him being black). Zakk Wylde may have described it best when he dubbed it the "Babe Ruth syndrome" after Rolling Stone put Jimi at number 1 on their All Time Best Guitarist list (which technically speaking, is absolutely ridiculous!) I mean, influence wise, it may be true, but reality wise, it's far from it. And like Page, Hendrix played pretty sloppy sometimes and also like Page, drugs probably played a big part in that. Plus, he depended a lot more on effects than did Page and often just made strange noises with them that didn't require much (if any) guitar playing skills but still highly impressed the non-musician masses. However, they're both great riff and songwriters despite their technical shortcomings. So they have much more in common that just their first names and the fact that they both became famous for playing the guitar. Don't get me wrong, I love Hendrix, but for his songwriting and singing abilities. In fact, I find him to be a much better singer than guitarist. And that's ironic, because Hendrix purportedly hated his own singing.
@@bassman5123 I only have on comment on this: All of the other guys you mentioned, Hendrix did it before they did. Hendrix is not overrated because he changed everything. He did things no one else ever did. The other guys were influenced by Hendrix, not the other way around. Page is just some guy, who wasn't very good technically.
This "sloppy" playing is one of the very reasons it's so hard to emulate his style perfectly. And I think the "dirt" is what's makes the music great. Because the early 70s was hairy and dirty, it was loose and cool, and I think Jimmy's playing perfectly portraits that.
This is silly, he was a sloppy player, to say he was doing it for effect and it's hard to emulate is rubbish, listen to any kid trying to shred beyond his ability and it's no different. Besides it's well known Jimmy had a heroin addiction and his sloppy playing became a lot worse during the late 70s. He was so bad he could barely record the necessary guitar on In through the out door. Not saying he wasn't a great guitar player but it was more in his creative ability rather then his great playing although his playing was good in his formative years
Bad performance is not a question of 'style'
@@litgamer6205 I wasn't saying his technical skills were above and beyond, but he could have chosen the "safe" route and played something he fully mastered, anyone could sit down and make solos for all songs on Zeppelin II, but for the time (1969) they were pretty hot and intricate in the way he would phrase and articulate his licks. Ofc Hendrix and The Who, or even Deep Purple for that matter had the same idea at that time... Maybe that's why Townshend, Blackmore, Page and Hendrix are all considered among the greatest of all time, even though people like Guthrie Gowan or John Petrucci could by their flawless technique make any one of them their bitches in just one lick... But again, if guitar solos were buildings we would all honour the architect rather than the construction workers, meaning the value of creativity conquers the appreciation of the labour of the construction. But I think we're roughly on the same page (pun intended). Lmk if you're not, so I can go on an extended tantrum rant about how you're wrong, your music taste sucks, I'm superior, and maybe throw in something naughty about your mother that's not related to the subject.... Jk, have a nice day!
@@junacebedo888 your mom is a bad performance.
@@raven_of_zoso455 What's your view on Eddie Van Halen, overrated??
Thanks for hitting the nail on the head with this video! You are not alone in this perspective. ❤👍🏻
His work on Coverdale-Page gave me a new found , and a whole nother level of respect and admiration . His voicing of chords and phrasing as well as composition really moved me , to almost have a better understanding and appreciation of his earlier years.
I loved that album actually!!
@@CarlBaldassarreMusic
I love his work with Paul Rogers and The Firm.
There was some great pieces in that incarnation! I loved Closer!
@@CarlBaldassarreMusic
You made me revisit Closer.... Thanks. Very uncharacteristically, Jimmy didn't drown the bass in Closer.
We must also remember that Page had his guitar slung as low as any guitar player ever has had their guitar in that position. Access for both his left and right hand were insane. I believe from 73 to 77 he had it super low. Excellent and spot on commentary on this subject of Page. Your understanding of Page’s guitar playing is insightful. Thanks Carl
You’re exactly right. It was slung so low in from 73 until 77. Especially 1977! He was almost tripping over it lol . ✌️
This. right. here.
Really thought this was the exact point we reached decades ago. His session work/studio portfolio was always top notch professional. It's significance was known then as much as it is now.
Live, he gave himself space to express, and did he ever, wearing that LP like the most badass gunslinger.
Man, guitar players are such a bunch of overcritical egomaniacs. I hate them.
@@OutOnTheTiles and god damn did he look cool doing it.
No kidding, man strap your guitar on the way Page played, add you favorite chemical enhancement, then play something, and tape it for later.
To quote Zappa’s commentary: wheedly-wheeeee…. wheedly-wheeeeee…. sorry, but what really sets the performers apart is those who crush it live. Page rarely did so after about 1971. He was too much bout the low-slung LesPaul, which IMO looked silly, and prancing around with Plant when he should have been playing the damn guitar. I’ll take Jeff Beck or Ritchie Blackmore over Page any day when it comes to live performances from that era
Such an interesting video. Content and delivery is fantastic. I think this one would make Jimmy smile!
Led Zeppelin remains my all time favorite band since discovering music around 1970 (age11). After over-indulging in Zep for most of my life, I had to give them a rest for the last 15 years. Watching your videos has me revisiting all their albums once again (as are my neighbors!).
If Jimmy Page is sloppy, then I enjoy the sloppiness. I love when the notes bleed together. It’s grinding and brutal. I love it. It’s like the difference between someone cutting sheets of metal cleanly and the sound of metal being torn apart in an accident. The sound of the accident, when the metal starts making a high pitched scream. And it’s very satisfying.
Mr Bunghole
Great ANALogy ?? 🤣
I was classically trained, and it drives me nuts when people say he was “sloppy,” he was being creative with his rhythm, and it’s intentional.
I am no guitarist and not able to understand how difficult Page's guitar technique, but I could feel the emotion from his guitar even when I was just a kid listening to Since I've Been Loving You (recording version) or No Quarter Live in MSG 1973. Thanks for the video.
His No Quarter solo in TSRTS is one of all time favorites
Even on Jimmy's worst night he could burn any guitar player alive. He is so far ahead of any guitar player on the planet that it is just ridiculous. 🙋
Great stuff and couldn’t agree more. It’s why I never argued Jimmy is the best, but rather my favorite guitarist because his playing hits me in way no other has ever done in my 50+ years on earth.
It's that great riff and songwriting, baby. Most of the "best" technical players just don't have it!
@@bassman5123 100% agree. Most of the “best” players overplay and/or just don’t write interesting stuff. I believe every note Jimmy plays because it’s coming from such an emotional place. Even when he did miss notes, it didn’t matter because I could hear what he intended to play. Much like when you can read a misspelled word.
I like this comment , by far my favourite
A guitarist to whom I lent a Zeppelin live video commented Page made a lot of mistakes but it was only when reaching for the impossible . My colleague came away mightly impressed for all the reasons Carl discusses here.
Carl, another great video. The fact that everyone wants to sound like Jimmy and play his music says it all. No, he’s not the most technical, but we like songs because of the way they make us feel. Jimmy knew that.
I've often heard the moniker ''tight but loose'' applied to his style of playing and I feel that it fits perfectly.
Carl, this is an excellent dose of perspective & it really hits home. Thank you.
A journalist once asked Herbie Hancock if he felt he was at the peak of his technique, & he said
"I don't have time to practice my technique. Sure, I could be a better technical player, but I spend all my time at the keyboard learning & composing music."
Absolutely Outstanding Video!!! I’ll take Jimmy’s So Called Slop over Technically Perfect EVERY DAY of the week… I will say OTHAFA Live at MSG was kinda rough, at least to my ears. Your Channel is about to blow up, Carl… Keep The Vids Rolling…
He wasn’t always sloppy, but I’ve seen him live when he was all smacked out, and “sloppy” is being kind..
Knebworth for the most part was a train wreck for him..hard to watch.
@@anz2441 fr but kashmir and achilles last stand were diamonds in the rough
@@tkn2597 Absolutely...love them both. Stairway is their opus. Idc what guitarist are better than page, he is magic, and that song and solo are the best these ears have heard.
Great analysis of Pages 'sloppiness'. It's interesting you mentioned Heartbreaker. To me, that 'sloppy' playing was masterful and added wonderful texture to the solo. There are many well trained technicians, but sometimes the purity and cleanliness just don't cut it. It's too nice and too clean.
they might also say the same thing of robin trower, provin' again, that they know-not of what-they-speak, man
That heartbreaker solo is cringe
I love that his playing is full of surprises.
His acoustic guitar playing always blows me away.
Especially the Rain Song.
Page was a genius. I learned guitar by listening to every album of LZ. Brilliant and emotional song writing. His years of session playing gave him the ability to stretch across boundless territory. If you want technical guitar playing, listen to the millions of you tube videos where clones play the same song over and over again, taken from a computerized loop or tab.
This is a good comment in my opinion. Who cares?This whole thing is subjective anyway. To be a session musician, (at least in London in the 60's), you had to turn up, play the chart you were given, and get it spot on. Your next session depended on it. No 'sloppiness' allowed. I feel he's made a choice and you all seem to know what that is. There is no point to music if it has no emotional quality. Great vocalists of the past are having their songs pitch corrected and auto-tuned now. What is happening with the singers parallels this discussion about a guitar player and music in general.
Music is performed by flawed human beings, not robots, yet! We're moving towards a robotic and souless future, music included. The last sentence of Davids comment sums up the current situation well. To play all technical and flash at the expense of emotion is a waste of everyone's time. I think there is an element of jumping on a bandwagon on few music related things. Something his heard by someone, who the idea hadn't occurred too, and then they go around spouting off as though it were their idea! It's like a snowball rolling downhill, getting larger and larger. A lot of this stuff comes from those that weren't there at the beginning. So it fails to take into account the vibes that were culturally and socially prevalent at that time. Again, who cares if JP plays a certain way. What does it change?
When Jimmy Page preformed The song remains the same/The rain song with Led Zeppelin in 1973, that was a good example of the fact he wasn't sloppy due to a lack of skill. Those two songs were played clean and with passion, I've never seen someone shred on a 12 string guitar like he did.
I've always said there are many guitarists that are "better" than Page. But he is my favorite. All the magic comes from how he makes me feel, as if I know exactly how he feels at that very moment. It just gets to me like no other. And those freestyle solo rants are the stuff of legends.
I've seen The Song Remains The Same at midnight shows in theaters countless times. There is moment during a solo that captures Bonham and Jones glancing at each other as if to say "where the hell is he going now?" I could have imagined it, I was usually in an altered state of awareness.
Nope. You’re spot on. I too watched it countless times at midnight showings in the 80s. I know the precise moment you speak of.
I could never understand the arguments with who is the best or my favorite is better then yours. Who cares, are we children fighting in a sandbox? Lol we have our favorite and be happy. If you don’t like a certain guitarist that’s fine also, just don’t bash someone’s favorite, it doesn’t make it right. I’m a Page guy and that’s why I picked up the guitar and I’m sure I’m not alone on that lol. I also love other greats as well. It is all in the music and what we enjoy.
Exactly! Jimmy P is my favorite all-around guitarist! He may not have been the, “best” in a particular aspect of playing, but he had such a broad pallet of sounds and textures including slide, acoustic work, different tunings, etc. He created art out of sound.
You guys are talking about that wonderful part during 'Dazed and Confused'.
That part right there is when the song, and the guitar, was about to take us all for a sweet wild ride.
God I love that movie! Best song ever, even 50 years later 🔥👍🔥
@@MJEvermore853 Are you going to San Francisco. Jimmy was playing, JPJ and Bonham was like what’s he doing? Lol then Plant came in with the San Francisco song.
Hi Carl, another great video! So glad you tackled this subject; often Jimmy's critics will use the word sloppy when describing his live playing. They expect a clean rehearsed "just like it sounds on the album" concert, like Rush live. But Led Zeppelin live is where the magic occurs, all the great risk taking and improvisation, like you said taking chances, stretching the song to new heights. Listen to Stairway to Heaven live or No Quarter live, my 2 favorite versions live are in one concert from 1975, Seattle, March 21st. Great examples of what you are saying. Did you get my prior links ok to this concert? I hope you enjoy it, happy listening!
The fact that there are questions or people questioning Jimmy Page's guitar playing is questionable in itself...
Thanks, worthwhile analysis! This old Zep man offers four peak Page solos: his SRTS live "Stairway," his live "Over the Hills" and "No Quarter," and his "Heartbreaker" middle-section on the BBC recordings. (Also agree about HWWW's middle solo in "Whole Lotta Love," that long blues shuffle.) Just astonishing, and time will never touch them.
He could be sloppy at times. I thought it was mostly limited to times when he was soloing and trying to play a little faster than he probably should have been. The solo in "Heartbreaker" comes to mind. Most of his solos were excellent. His rhythm work and acoustic playing was always spotless, in my opinion. Excellent songwriter and producer. Overall outstanding guitarist.
That's really the only Zep song that he's not perfect. But the decision to use that solo most likely was because it had fire and emotion. It never made me wince to hear it. Just the opposite, it sounded like Page was caught up in the moment and let his emotions go.
@@scifiwriter98 * *David Treciak,* * C'mon brother. I love Led Zep but Imma-gonna-slappa-you-with-the-wet-spaghetti for saying that.
- His "Moby Dick" on, The Song remains the Same album is *AWFUL.* Sure, it's not a solo but his fills are cringe.- Compared to the original studio recording? Yes, *AWFUL.*
@Jammin Clemmons I was going to mention that much of his live playing is sloppy, but I figured it was obvious and everyone was just using studio songs for examples.
He was a big stealer too,they said
@@bambusidu All guitar players are. I try to steal a new piece every time I watch someone else play.
"Of any guitarist, Jimmy Page was my biggest influence. I wanted to look, think and play like him. Zeppelin had a heavy influence on Rush during our early days. Page's loose style of playing showed an immense confidence, and there are no rules to his playing." -- Alex Lifeson
Alex does not strap his guitar low like Page does on stage
Alex is one of best live performers I've seen. Neil and Geddy as well.
@@junacebedo888 What does that have to do with anything?
@@da324 Position of your instrument is very important. Too high is bad. Also too low is not good
@@junacebedo888 subjective...it's what feels comfortable. And Jimmy was a big influence on Alex....sooooooo!
In the sixties and seventies, you were expected to improvise your solos and do something different each time. The vibe for guitarist and I think for musicians was much more of a jamming mindset. Jimi Hendrix is a great example of what it was like back then.
And to you Carl, sir, you did a great job explaining on how the way Jimmy Page played may it be sloppy or not. I hope you make a video on how David Crosby plays his guitar the way does with all those different tunings. At least sort of tribute video in his memory. Thank you.
"Distance makes Depth." Great words
I think that's what makes a great band, the risk, the dare, the improv. You never quite know what you're going to get. It keeps me excited and wanting to go back. How many times would you go and see a band play the same songs with the same rehearsed solos? Me, I want to be there when they risk all and nail it!
This sloppy thing runs a bit thin. I feel It's the imperfections that make music real, organic and breathe, creates power, feeling and emotion.
Keep up the great work.
I can't imagine going to a bar, listening to the band and saying "That guy is really sloppy, but it is probably because he is taking chances and pushing the envelope." It would be more like "This guy sucks."
@@Rich-kp1eu...you didn't listen to a word that orien said at all. Perhaps it's a little too technical for you to grasp.
I’d like to think that he’s one of the best guitar players ever. What makes him special is his confidence, swagger, and humility as both a person and a player. He’s got a signature sound that comes from his heart and fingers. I’ve sought after his tone for decades and sometimes hear it in other places. Listen to Chuck Berry on Johnny B Goode. Listen to the very last chord stabs at the formatta and you’re going to hear what Jimmy Page sought after.
Perfection is boring. That’s why Creation is imperfect. It’s got variety and originality. It’s magical. Jimmy knew that mistakes led to moments of chaos that would result in beautiful creative moments. His other hobby was studying this science of chaos.
Everyone is open to their own opinion and that’s beautiful because they will always have a chance to change. So maybe he is sloppy. It’s only a state of mind that’s holding ya back from being brave! Go for it like Little Jim, and create some magic!
I'd also say he stands out for the way he orchestrated different guitars and tones in a song. Mixing electric with acoustic, like Buffalo Springfield did on their best songs, is something I really miss from that era.
@@scifiwriter98 love that band!
"How the west was won" proves that he was not sloppy at all. I believe in many cases he was just taking the piss and there is also a lot humor involved and pranks. Concepts long forgotten in this "really serious" age we're living. Also, after 73 -74 I think he did not care very much for the guitar as he did until then.
Well, it's not that he didn't care, it's that he got hooked on pain meds which led into heroin.
Being stoned out of your wits has a poor effect on one's guitar playing.
The Page critics can't seem to wrap their little heads around that problem. Most of them can't even read properly.
When he wasnt on the hard stuff, he was always great.
@@MJEvermore853 Agreed, but what I really meant was that he focused more on composing and creating timeless and original music than strictly on being precise and technically proficient as he had done until then. After all this is a rat race no one wins and he must have felt that. He had nothing more to prove anyway. As far as the drugs, he didn't seem to slow down creatively at all
@@masterbluesrockguitar4966...very true...I just meant that his stage performance when downhill after the heroin began.
But you're right, his creativity didn't slow down
Excellent 👏
The comparison to the Impressionists was a perfect analogy for Page’s soloing. I am a huge Page fan, and I suppose then it’s no coincidence that my favorite art belongs in the Impressionist category.
Back in the day when I listened to the live version of stairway to heaven at the msg I thought what's wrong with jimmi ? Why is he playing the solo like he was and not like the studio version which sounded like a 10/10 for me . But as I listened to it again amd again I realised how the slight sloppiness added more beauty to the whole composition in a way that was unmatched by the studio version . I still listen to the studio recoding sometimes but more often than not I go for the live version just because it has more character .
How dare anyone ask such a question of Jimmy Page?!
It's called playing with "emotion ", losing yourself in the moment.
Let's bask in Father Pages brilliance!
Sorry to burst your bubble but Page himself said he was sloppy but that it was part of his style.
@@itslikethesamebutdifferent8020 it's tongue in cheek.
Even so, if I could play anywhere near Pages "sloppy " , I'd be a happy man.
@@tonymcnamara9368 lol true.
@@tonymcnamara9368 I can play most of his music, I didn't write it though.
Page is only human. He has two arms, ten fingers, and his brain.
If he can do it, you can do it.
Try to play better than Page.
In Toronto they use to play the Song Remain The Same Movie every Saturday , you had a few tokes watch it on a massive screen they even had large speakers in the theater so it made you feel that you were at the show, watching Jimmy the passion sweat he was on a different planet, Ritchie Blackmore made a comment about Hendrix always searching for notes, with your video I get it , the imperfection is actually the real art, its from the soul, you have players that are perfect but it's the players that were imperfect and beautiful are the most influential musicians in music, so just play the damn guitar who knows where it will lead you, be creative and just be yourself,
Yup. Used to go. They Also played Hendrix film and Floyd’s Live at Pompeii
@@edpas007 I think it was called Danforth Music Hall seen also AC/DC Let their be Rock, great times great days,hey
@@canadianintheukbrian hi, the Danforth was live music , if my memory serves correct. The films were shown at the Roxy theatre, which also was on Danforth Avenue. 😊. Great times
@@edpas007 bit before me in the 70's Rocky Horror Picture show, use to see people dress up , Toronto was great back then, great memories hey
Yes his solos were sloppy, but his riffs were fantastic.
Agreed, same with Pete Townshend.
His rhythm and finger stuff is always super tight
I agree.
You guys just don't get it. Passion and energy. If you were there live, you wouldn't think he was sloppy.
But if you did...you're missing the point.
@@stratolestele7611...they act like every solo he played was crap. The stupidity is astounding.
I've got every show that was ever recorded....sloppy solos were few and far between. They became more prevalent when he was on heroin, but only because he was high as hell and almost completely out of it some of the time.
They are judging his playing while he was up there on stage with an overwhelming heroin /cocaine/Jack Daniels cocktail running through his veins.
And speaking of Clapton, he was an awful junkie as well..... he couldn't even stand up to play at his own shows!
At least Jimmy could still jam a bit and didn't need a broomstick to prop himself up.
I saw the movie the Song Remains the Same in the 70's and I guess I was about 14 years old. I remember how excited we were as we lined up outside the Roxy theater in Toronto to see it because me and my pals all loved Zeppelin. About 3/4 of the way thru the movie it suddenly hit me 'is he still going?' 'how much music does this man have inside him?'. Every solo, every song was a different musical journey and I was completely swept up in it. I love Jimmy Page!
This is absolutely right on. There are versions of some live songs where Jimmy Page pulls a gem out of a hat. He takes you on an adventure trip, sometimes through a rabbit hole where he knows the way.
He also wrote hell of a lot of great songs, and other guitar critics would’ve loved to of written two or three of them. That’s why I love to watch him live more than any other
no he didnt! they copied or "covered" a lot of old blues tunes there's nothing more disturbing than to hear from some clown who has never heard of Willy Dixon?
@@johnpike5836 you are showing ignorance
@@richieg8432 I got something else to show u...zip
@@johnpike5836 what are your qualifications to critique someone like jimmy page ? zip
@@richieg8432 2 ears 2 eyes and that's probably all a member of the watch and listening audience requires. what's your secret? I'm thinking you'd like to have him Decorate your tonsils...
I remember a quote from Jimmy saying that with Zeppelin he always was pushing the musical envelope and would never play "safe music." He took untold amounts of risks and most of the time he pulled it off but occasionally during live improvisations he might get a bit "sloppy."
The amount of raw power generated by Pagey (sloppy or not) cannot be denied. I love his playing. Pagey, EVH, and Blackmore are my penultimate players.
I've often thought that JP was a kind of impressionist; but I never heard anyone else actually say it. It's done with feeling, and that's the most important thing. Thanks.
This considerations are flawless. Everything you say is true and your metaphors about impressionism is deadly accurate.
Hey Carl! Page has only been described as "sloppy" since the mid-80s or so with the explosion of rock sub-genres (death metal, grindcore...), and the rage among guitarists became sheer technique. But it's not MUSIC if all you are playing an exotic scale over a weird set of chord changes at 160 BPM and 125 dB and there is no song/composition.
Yes he had his moments of "sloppines" OCCASIONALLY on some live recordings. I've always attributed it to him trying too hard to fill out the sound of a 3 piece band with no second guitar, to get it to sound fuller like what is on the records. Your explanation here is very valid I think. I never gave a second thought to it, and apparently neither did millions of fans around the world that packed their shows in the 1970s!
You need to watch Live Aid, the ARMS shows, etc,. He can hardly play at all compared to the other guitarists, no he's been sloppy for years, the only reason it matters is Page is consistently ranked higher than guys who would simply blow him off the stage, and Page is always blaming faulty monitors or not rehearsing enough for his sloppiness when he's just not that good a soloist I've been listening for 40 years and he is at times dreadful when he takes a solo, but he has made that his style and it works for him
@@scottblanton5220 The Live Aid performance is pretty widely considered to be one of the worst performances of his career, hardly a fair example.
@@blib3786 try the Atantic show from 88, all the ARMS shows, etc. I'm not trying to trash him, I'm just saying he's overrated.
@@scottblanton5220 Well I tend to agree that he's overrated as a live player/soloist, but as a songwriter and studio player he's practically unrivaled.
@@blib3786 he can be solid in the studio, but it's live performing that really defines a player, can you imagine Eric Clapton not performing live only being a studio guitarist? Page was fortunate enough to be surrounded by a lot of talant and he stole alot also, never giving those he stole from much or any credit, I mean Dazed and Confused is by a guy named Jake Holmes. Black Mountain Side is pretty much stolen from Bert Jansch, etc, it goes on and on
A great comparison, and I've long thought that people calling Jimmy sloppy were looking at his work at little too closely instead of standing back and taking it all in. Or maybe they were just jealous they could never attain that level of ZEN. Breathing in and out, moving across the stage as his fingers danced across the fretboard for half an hour at a time. Without seeming to give it a thought. That is a sublime Genius.
Yes, absolutely. It's one of the hallmarks of his approach. He definitely had the ability to play cleanly, but for many of his live performances he chose a relatively rough, swing-for-the-fence posture. I love it. He's my favorite rock guitarist, and one of the great creative geniuses of pop music.
Excellent analysis and explanation, from one who has studied Jimmy Page for many years. Thank you, Carl.
Your best video yet Carl! Thanks for explaining this to those you aren't capable of understanding.....
The Genius of James Patrick Page
And it'll go right over some peoples' heads, unfortunately. But not because of Carl...his video is spot on. 👍
What seems to be sloppiness is just Page’s style, he plays loose and lets his fingers fly without caring over every off sound, that’s the magic of Jimmy Page
he's sloppy and it keeps him out of the virtuoso category
@@RobertMJohnson if you don’t think Jimmy Page is a virtuoso then you probably need to re evaluate what you classify as a virtuoso and a non virtuoso
I'd rather be Jimmy Page than any of the virtuosos. Page has been a part of so many great compositions, performances, productions, arrangements, grooves, riffs, songs and solos than any virtuoso I can think of. Keep your maximum execution and polish.
@@tridibbiswas3824 - Oh right, OK! I'm going to re evaluate Burt Jansch on the strength of what Page did to his music. Page took it, knocked the shit out of it on an acoustic 12-string thus inventing "HEAVY METAL" - I've despised him my whole musical life for that inept act of sloppiness!
Bad players need excuses ..
Jimmy Page grew up being influenced by American Rockabilly and Chicago blues players. Were such masters as Chuck Berry or Howlin' Wolf sloppy? No. Because they play for feeling, and did it in a way that drew you in and kept you entranced. That is why they were and still are loved and revered today. Same goes for Led Zeppelin, only at a much greater level for most of us. (BTW, good video)
There’s Appalachia in there too.
Hi Carl, I very much identify with your comments on Jimmy's playing. "Originality exists when a work of art is identifiable with its creator" is a brilliant statement, thanks for sharing it!
Thanks for noticing that summation. I put in tremendous thought rendering that definition.
It's like when you hear Jimmy Page in the guitar solos of the 77' tour thanks to soundboards and audience recordings. The theremin section and the harmonizer effect is amazing.
I think those are the details that critics forget.
In the video of Seattle 07 17 1977 you can see that game between the guitar and the theremin... greetings Carl from Chile.
I think this leads to a good point: when people talk about how, if you take too many lessons or learn too much theory, you start to sound just like everyone else. And it's true, I CAN hear people's lessons. Take Tim Pierce for example. He's super conscious of his playing being TOO tight. And I've quit watching him because, for all his technique, I find his playing too boring. This is the same reason rock in general has lost its popularity. When we put the beat to a grid, we lost the humanity, the emotional appeal, the passion behind the song.
That is why I tend to leave my timing mistakes. I tend to leave wrong notes. I tend to leave artifacts, dynamics, everything that works. Of course I have to nudge some things sometimes, on every instrument. Sometimes the lyrics come in way too late, but before I put them in exactly the right place I first experiment with how late I can get away with leaving them. There are two secret ingredients to Zeppelin's success that are both dramatically under-sung: call-and-response, whether it be in the riff itself or in the interaction of the drums and bass with the lead guitar or in the live ad lib vocal and guitar interplay; and of course the deep, passionate feel of every member. Bonham's swing is natural, even perhaps not deliberate; Page's attack is PRECISELY out-of-place, just when and where it needs to be in order to be that much more evocative. Zeppelin has for a third of a century been the ONLY band that blows my mind the way they do. Nobody else speaks to me on that level.
Thanks for this. I'm loving your channel! I think your videos are going to make MY future content better!
Whole lotta love. Nuff said.
@@SLB4523 I agree with the Tim Pierce comment, but I give him a pass because studio musicians have to meet the needs of their bosses.
I've heard other artists play their solos note for note just as recorded. Don Felder on Hotel California comes to mind. Never heard Page doing that live while playing Stairway to Heaven.
That's weird cause in the most viewed live version of Hotel California, it seems Felder doesn't play it note for note, maybe you've seen a different version to me though
To be fair, I don't think Page ever wanted to play their solos note for note
It’s a great observation that Page is an impressionist/expressionist player. He was always a clean player on the acoustic. During the solos he often tried to play beyond his abilities and he failed sometimes. The risks didn’t always work but boy when they did! Also, from ‘73 onward he had hand & strength issues which contributed to his sloppiness! GREAT POST Carl!
It’s so refreshing to hear a guitarist draw a line between guitarists and the history of art. If only more TH-camrs were as intelligent as you. Well done!
Thank you!
The "sloppiness live" argument quickly falls apart when listening to the 10min Stairway to heaven solo of 1973. If that does convince people, i don't know what to say!
PS: beautiful video Sir!
If Jimmy stood still like a statue (Clapton and Blackmore come to mind), then his playing would have been closer to perfection. If you watch his live performances, he is everything but stationary.
He moved the stage and had the coolest look and sound. He also would engineer how the band sounded live and in the studio. Not many guitarists have accomplished that. It's not only chords, Riffs and solos, it was the music all put together.
Blackmore didn't stand still like a statue
@@filipstefanovski155 I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. I saw Blackmore 3 times only. He was not as mobile as Page, but was not as locked in to one spot on stage as Clapton. And if you move around like Page did with that extra heavy double neck (and the Les Paul is a heavy guitar as well) as opposed to a stratocaster, you can see my perspective.
Blackmore playing like a statue 🤣😅
.. and Page playing like a clown ..
Blackmore didn't need a fake hand injury before every US tour to hide the fact that he could play well. Him ..
@@rejdrouin wow. Seems that i hit a nerve. Another one of those page vs blackmore civil wars.
100% on point. My friends used to point out how sloppy his live solos are when we were all 15 back in the 80's. Sloppy in the best way possible.
Life is sloppy. Jimmy was perfectly imperfect! Give me Jimmy, Jimi and Neil every day of the week over any clean virtuoso.
right. Mozart just doesn't compare to these 3.
There’s no need to downplay technical virtuosos out there, they’re just as good as Page or Hendrix.
@@itslikethesamebutdifferent8020 they are patently superior players. they simply may not have the musicality and creativity of Jimi and Jimmy when it comes to writing hits or great compositions.
@@RobertMJohnson - everyone has their own style thru which to project their musical ideas. I do agree that Page wrote riffs like no one else and his ability to create music using alternate tunings is second to none. Hendrix was from another planet entirely which is why Clapton, Beck, Page and every other guitar player at that time were so awestruck at his unique style which in turn influenced them and everybody else. Virtuosos May not write hits like them but they are technically better musicians and that is a bigger yardstick thru which to measure music, not writing hits.
@@RobertMJohnson You don't get my point. Sloppy Mozart would still be incredible. It's not the way it's played, it's what's being played.👍
I understand what people mean when they say he was "sloppy". Sometimes, he did seem to be "out on a limb" somewhere, but to my ear he never seemed to completely "fall off", and it always seemed to fit the moment somehow, even if there were things to "nitpick". His playing was always extremely "dramatic", and I think that "drama" almost compels the artist to not be "technically perfect". Zep's music had power and mystery unlike any other of their contemporaries, so whatever Page was doing seemed to work pretty well, didn't it?
Great video! Emotion is is expression and things sometimes need to have that spontaneous feeling. I guess "feeling" is the key. TYFP!
I get a kick out of when these guys (Page, Garcia, Hendrix, etc.) get called sloppy. People who say these things dont understand art and live music. These guys are the Masters. If I get called sloppy while jamming I'm going to take it as a lovely compliment. Also, your quote at the end is spot on!
Thank you for mentioning Jerry Garcia's name in there. Another of my all-time favorite guitar players!
Jerry was indeed sloppy at times, muffing notes that would have been compositionally brilliant if he had played them cleanly. There's a seque between Darkstar and St. Stephen on one of the Dick's Picks that's beautiful and delicate and would have been just about perfect had Garcia not hit a clam in the middle. He never really liked the tape traders because he said that when listening to recordings of his live playing he would hear what he was trying to play. Like Bobby Browning said, " Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?." Jerry could also be pretty self-indulgent, knowing that the band would follow him anywhere, even to musical dead ends. I say those things as a huge fan who saw him play live lots of times. Then there were so many times when the band was firing on all cylinders and his solos reached past the stratosphere.
he is not sloppy, technical guitarists create an illusion that guitar must be play like them. Ears can hear the difference emotion between technique. Emotions always win. That's how music works.
Jimmy is all about the emotion.
It can be sloppy and emotional and brilliant all at the same time. That’s Jimmy
I never heard that comment before about emotion, thank you.
If Clapton were recorded as much as Page he'd have more lackluster performances, and yes he too makes mistakes. The early 80's and Junkie years are what hurts Jimmy, but only because everything he did was recorded. Nobody was bootlegged more and back in the 70's, you'd get one or two rock artists for the year, apart from almost every LZ show. And to his credit, whilst a junkie, when he did fall off with timing or something, he came back in spades. Nobody else can say this. Everyone gets worse or fails, Jimmy is the only one I can find that always fought back successfully. Except for that one time in Chicago when he got "food poisoning".
You take the good with the bad with a player who plays like him because without one you cannot have the other. Derek Jeter could have hit more home runs if he swung for them, but he wanted to get 3k hits. I wouldn't have it any other way and it is sad players don't play that way today in both baseball and on guitar, and neither practiced. They both warmed up, but never did the drills on off days. If you look at his Page & Plant performances, Jimmy Page is out there proving it once again and again topping himself with most of his performances as they go on. With the Black Crowes album he shows how technically proficient he can be when he doesn't have to carry the entire load like he normally prefers, and maybe in his fifties he was ready to settle into that role, but the Robinsons did not want to record with him and he didn't want to be a revival act. Another example of how Jimmy will do anything as long as it's real, and nothing at all if it ain't.
I saw Clapton in '82 in Vancouver BC and it was the most lackluster performance by any of the "great' guitarists that I have ever seen. Clapton just seemed to be going through the motions and staying "safe". I have seen Johnny Winter 4 times and he makes Clapton look like an amateur. I much prefer a guitarist that plays with emotion than technical perfection always, which is one of the many reasons that Jimmy Page has always been my favorite.
I saw Page opening night of the Black Crowes /Page tour and he was spot on and over the top that night. I had heard at times he could be "Hit or Miss". He hit it out of the park that performance. You could see it on his face after the third encore. All smiles and humbly thanking the crowd.
As an artist and Art history teacher, I like the Page/Impressionism comparison. It's very apt.
When I listen to his solos, I feel like I am running on a moving walkway effortlessly gliding forward with every steps. Solos from some other (great) artists make me feel like my feet are moving fast but I am not moving forward much at all.
Spot on Carl....no beauty in saftey and perfection.
The world is filled with great technical guitar players. They are not a dime a dozen, but maybe a buck a dozen.
Jimmy is/was an ARTIST which is WAY WAY more important than being a musician or a technician.
Jimmy has said in the past, and with a smile, that he never played scales. So the idea of him sitting at home and practicing scale/arpeggio exercises was always a no go. Where he excelled and where his playing made great strides was with a band behind him, whether on stage or in studio, with the Yardbirds and early Led Zeppelin. Most of LZ II was recorded during the LZ I tour. So in the span of six months he laid down his most iconic work, inspired by constant touring and recording. After the success of LZ II, the band became so immense that constant touring using smaller venues was no longer possible or even necessary, from a financial standpoint. It was at this point that Page's skills started to decline; playing out in front of audiences on a constant basis was not happening. And since he didn't "practice" the guitar in a conventional sense, his skills started to erode. Duke Ellington once said that if a musician doesn't practice for a day, he knows it. If he doesn't practice for two days, his bandmates know it. And if he doesn't practice for three days, his audience knows it. And that is precisely what happened to Page.
dude..no one is arguing that zep's songwriting was/is unbelievable. but Page was a sloppy, sloppy guitarist. he's NOT Van Halen, Vai, Yngwie.
@@RobertMJohnson Thank fuck.
@@shka-n1t go smoke some more weed, tough guy
@@shka-n1t No joke, I'll take sloppy and soulful over those other more technically perfect guitarists any day.
@@RobertMJohnson Thank fuck.
How serendipitous this video came in my suggestions, as I literally was discussing this very topic a mere few hours ago with a HUGE Page/Zap fan.
Great analysis, Carl.
As an artist and musician, I find your analogy perfect for the topic.
Thanks. I thought that insight was a gift from the muse! I’m glad you see both sides of it and how perfect the analogy is!
@@CarlBaldassarreMusic I'm a clasically-trained painter/sculptor in the style of the Old Masters through Impressionism (though I find the American Impressionists utilized diffused color without sacrificing form, as in some Boston School painters.)
I'm an aspiring musician, as well.
I was impressed with your understanding of fine art and your correlation to make your musical analogy.
I hope we can connect one day soon.
Thanks for your inspiration, Carl.🙏
I’ve often said these exact same things about J.P. But you’re analogy of impressionist pastors is PERFECT!
Thank you!!!