been watching horse racing for over 40 years and el gran senor remains the most brilliant horse i have ever seen he won irish derby and should have won at epsom even though he didnt get 12 furlongs
This is one of my favourite commentaries. "He's asked him to quicken" the panicky inflection in his voice perfectly mirrors the sudden realisation for Eddery that he has a problem
He was a miler, the Irish derby was a slowly run race. 10 furlongs would have been ideal. He didn't last home at Epsom. Pat should have waited or fully committed and put distance between himself and secreto. But that's easy to say in hindsight.
That awful moment when it felt like he had another gear to go away and win by 2 lengths but when asked there was nothing, fair play to El Gran Senor he never gave up and battled on but Secreto just outstayed him in the last 25 metres
Secreto's win made David O'Brien, at 27, the youngest man to train an Epsom Derby winner. Beating his father ....trainer of the favourite unbeaten El Gran Senor.
The unlucky horse was At Talaq!! His connections obviously drastically underestimated his ability and used him as a bunny up front. In spite of this he fought like a tiger to the line. When sent to Australia he proved to be a freak winning Group 1's at 1400-3200 metres and proving one of the best WFA and handicappers in the country. One wonders if he took a sit in this race what he might have done!!
@@paulbrady5772 EGS Guineas performance has 130 rated Chief Singer in 2nd where both horses showed amazing acceleration and finished full of running, no whips involved. A future Arc winner 10l beaten in 4th. Frankels was whipped big time, finished exhausted, only 5l clear of a 117 rated horse in 2nd. The most overrated performance in history. Frankel went on to better things, but beat poor horses.
I've never forgotten him. I always thought he was the best horse I had ever seen not to win The Derby. Pat Eddery admitted he rode him wrong that day and he should have won.
If you look at his dewhurst race he was 2 lengths clear then Rainbow Quest narrowed it to a neck on the line, so i guess Eddery was holding on to him till the last minute. I think he went too early here , should have gone on half a furlong out rather than 1 1/2 out . Easy to say after the race tho.
I think people underestimate EGS by underestimating Secreto. It's easy to blame EGS defeat on lack of stamina but I suspect Secreto was actually a very good horse. He was beaten by Sadlers Wells the start before, not a bad horse. Rousillon behind him. The Sadlers Wells and Rainbow Quest form stacked up against the best around for the rest of the season and the year after. I don't think this was a poor or average Derby at all.the first two were very good horses.
Everyone should have first read the official biography "Vincent O'Brien" by Jacqueline O'Brien and Ivor Herbert (2005). Eddery knew about his horse's doubtful stamina, was left in front two furlongs out and was concerned about "the hill". He did say "If I'd won by four inches, you'd say he stayed". Far from being upset by his own horse getting beaten, Vincent was thrilled that his son's horse had won. Any reference to and comparison with Starkey's ride on Dancing Brave, in quite different circumstances, is irrelevant.
In an interview given by Pat Eddery about this race. He said the reason why he lost the race is because El Gran Senor needs to be taken to the front at the very last 100 yds. However the horse in front weakened very quickly, leaving him in the lead too early.
I dont think Eddery gave him a bad ride at all. He gave EGS fully well over a furlong to quicken up and he didnt . Plain and simple. Reminds me of Harchibald in the champion hurdle .
With such a diminishing margin it is easy to understand why people blame Pat Eddery. If he had produced EGS a little further behind the pack, would he have won? Maybe, maybe not, its too hard to say. I think he was just simply out stayed. I am not saying he didn't stay 12f.
@XLadyClaireX Secreto outstayed him. Pat & Christy were giving everything with EGS a neck up. The best 12f horse won on the day just like Pour Moi needed every yard of the mile and a half last saturday.
@@Dangermoose-rv6bb l know that l knew Christys sister Marie l played soccer with bansha Celtic stayed in her house lovely woman gave me st jovite when that won Christy rang her wasn't all about eddery as people made out
That race more than any other BROKE Vincent O'Brien's heart , absolutely, i would it go as far as to say it destroyed a part of him he simply Adored the Senor he was much more than just a race horse to the Great Man , and ultimately it led to a parting of the ways with Pat Eddery a year later
Personally I would have had to go with Pat’s assessment where horses were dying all round him and he was in front, in advance of game plan. He was the man in charge and would have obviously been aware of the hill finding him out , and with doubts of true staying potential he probably was also aware of the quandary of hitting front too soon. Easy for those riding arm chair finishes with a rolled up copy of the Sporting life. Nevertheless he would have seen most dangers dropping away which might have prompted him to kick early. I had £100 ew SECRETO and was therefore full of praise to Christy Roche who refused to accept 2nd place. Irish Derby evolved perfect for ELG although was not won by staying. It is ironic that for want of a nose EDDERY and STARKY have both left wonderful finishes in the dustbin.
Actually I don't think Starkey gave DB a bad ride,he was so unbalanced coming around Tattenham corner,he obviously didn't act on the uneven ground sadly. As for Eddery sheesh,he should have won that Derby in my opinion.
If you watch the race carefully, Secreto was hard at work a long way out, which suggests he was more a stayer than a speed horse. The Derby always fancies a stayer over speed, unless you truly stay a mile and a half, then you will always be an El Gran Senor....a brilliant loser.
If ye looked at it to the furlong pole you’d get up an stick the kettle on already knowing the outcome but just after the furlong pole he gassed out with nothin left the other fella just outstayed him
How anyone can say EGS didn't last the mile and half is laughable. If Eddery had kicked earlier at point of looking over shoulder he would have won. If he didn't last the distance he wouldn't be a nose short
I'm guessing. if El Gran Senor came down the outside, towards the centre of the track, away from the other horses, or perhaps made his move earlier, he'd have got the job done.. He reminds me of Australia a bit..
If you think that was a bad ride by Pat then you know jack shit about racing. He nursed him to get the 12F but the winner - also a Northern Dancer - was more stoutly bred for the trip. EGS was a wonder horse that won at The Curragh after but Epsom was a tougher test. 2 great horses and a great race.
I'm maybe splitting hairs here but El Gran Senor didn't actually beat an Arc winner in the Irish Derby but beat a horse that went on to win it (albeit via a stewards) the following year as a 4YO, but that's just the finer detail and I get the general point being made, that he beat Rainbow Quest in the Irish Derby and that horse got 12f.
He was truly great at a mile. Chief Singer was great, and EGS beat him well. No Chief Singers in Frankels 2000G. Dubwai Gold might be tail off in EGS 2000Gs.😂 Frankel was cooked, exhausted , EGS was floating effortlessly to the finish. The difference is amazing. Apart from maybe the Brigadier, There are no better 3yo millers then EGS ever.
He should have been disqualified for beating Secreto 50 times with the whip held high, absolutely no thought of the horse. No wonder he never ran again. Still who cared, especially after they sold him for 20 million dollars
Eddery did nothing wrong. If he'd have held onto him for longer he'd have been crucified for getting beat. EGS brilliant miler/ 1m 2f horse but Secreto just outstayed him. It was still a fine performance over trip that taxed him..
He neither took a pull nor dropped his hands, he just didn't get the quickening response from his horse that he expected. The horse got 12f well enough but just got outstayed by the winner.
Eddery took the piss with a look around trying to show his horse was going well and got caught out. He should have gone for home in the straight and beaten Secreto mentally, I don't mind as my bet was on Secreto, EGS wasover rated that year in my opinion|
Pat Eddery was a great jockey but Lester Piggot was a greater one. Piss poor ride by Eddery in the last 2 furlongs. Didn't need to be all out but needed to be urging the horse on. Got caught a bit flat footed. Only needed another nose. Surely could have got that somewhere. Watch the last 25m of the race. Lester found at least a half length. Difference was the better jockey of the poorer horse beating the poorer jockey on the better horse.
All comments Come into the real. World Winner was backed from 50/ 1 After finishing placed In the Irish 2000.guinness 3rd or 4th Over 1 mile Crying out for 1 mile and Half Cristy Roche. Told O Brien. Horse needs further Money was down From 50.to.1 Sp was 9.to.1 Or 11.to1 Forget however Pat eddery Looked around Wheare are u Cristy Roche. Drove on Think el gran senior Was 8 to 11 fav Eddery objected Just to make it luck As if. Christy Roche Stole the race Tht was just the way Not to show Tht it was an out and Out stroke Eddery let him win End of story Thts a fact He'd have waited to go To the front. If secrecto Wasent In the race And would have won Moving on. Few weeks Later well u wouldent Belive it Rematch in the Irish Derby Same 2 horses But Thursday Of tht week 48 hours Before Irish Derby Secretto Was suppose to Go lame or some Excuses As tht what they Got away with So we all know Who won the irish Derby. El gran senior Pulled clear of the field So the o briens Father and son Had their doubles Up. Before the races began They new dam well What they Wheare Doing. Fact 50./1 They backed secretto at Doubles For cast . I backed secretto Anti Post 25/ 1 Vincent ó Brien Instructed eddery to Object just to Blame. Secretto In leaning in on him But he Dident It was the other way round So. Thts what ó bríens Done in the 70 s And 80 s And got away with it Father and son job
been watching horse racing for over 40 years and el gran senor remains the most brilliant horse i have ever seen he won irish derby and should have won at epsom even though he didnt get 12 furlongs
This is one of my favourite commentaries. "He's asked him to quicken" the panicky inflection in his voice perfectly mirrors the sudden realisation for Eddery that he has a problem
He was a miler, the Irish derby was a slowly run race. 10 furlongs would have been ideal. He didn't last home at Epsom. Pat should have waited or fully committed and put distance between himself and secreto. But that's easy to say in hindsight.
That awful moment when it felt like he had another gear to go away and win by 2 lengths but when asked there was nothing, fair play to El Gran Senor he never gave up and battled on but Secreto just outstayed him in the last 25 metres
Secreto's win made David O'Brien, at 27, the youngest man to train an Epsom Derby winner. Beating his father ....trainer of the favourite unbeaten El Gran Senor.
He gets forgotten from time to time, but he was a super talent.
Secreto, a grandson of the all-time great American racehorse Secretariat ❤
Go on dad!! Grandad loved him for it but never forgot coming second.
@@alanrossiter6626 It's a real head scratcher 🙄
The unlucky horse was At Talaq!! His connections obviously drastically underestimated his ability and used him as a bunny up front. In spite of this he fought like a tiger to the line. When sent to Australia he proved to be a freak winning Group 1's at 1400-3200 metres and proving one of the best WFA and handicappers in the country. One wonders if he took a sit in this race what he might have done!!
Secreto had alot of stamina and to criticise Eddery too much is wrong.All the others dropped away EGS was left there,hindsight is a wonderful thing.
El gran senor was a forgotten legendary 2000 guinea winner best of all time
Frankel
Err no
@@paulbrady5772
EGS Guineas performance has 130 rated Chief Singer in 2nd where both horses showed amazing acceleration and finished full of running, no whips involved. A future Arc winner 10l beaten in 4th.
Frankels was whipped big time, finished exhausted, only 5l clear of a 117 rated horse in 2nd. The most overrated performance in history.
Frankel went on to better things, but beat poor horses.
I've never forgotten him. I always thought he was the best horse I had ever seen not to win The Derby. Pat Eddery admitted he rode him wrong that day and he should have won.
Eddery lost the Derby by trying to be clever. If he'd let El Gran Senor go 2 furlongs out, he'd have won.
Bravo Luigi Miglietti the venezuelan owner of Secreto. Great race !!!!
If you look at his dewhurst race he was 2 lengths clear then Rainbow Quest narrowed it to a neck on the line, so i guess Eddery was holding on to him till the last minute. I think he went too early here , should have gone on half a furlong out rather than 1 1/2 out . Easy to say after the race tho.
Lester reportedly said to EGS 's connections afterwards "do you miss me now?"
Imagine if we had twitter in 1984? :)
l piggott would have waited and waited and waited eddery lost the race
Unlike Greville Starkey on Dancing Brave two years later Pat Eddery cannot be blamed for EGS defeat.
Pat Eddery was easily the greatest rider ever to sit on a horse..a fucking Legend..period!!
He was for looking at the trees 🎄 when he coundnt win lost an awfull lot of big races all excuses then 😮
Pat gave him a shocker
Absolutely, that's why I never understand poor Greville Starkey getting so much criticism for his ride on Dancing Brave, he did nothing worse.
Not the only time he gave horses 🐴 shockers did it a lot and when he couldn't win would be looking at the trees could never back Eddery each way lol
Jeez, what a finish! 😳😎
At Talaq went onto win the Melbourne Cup.
always a question as to whether EGS was a genuine 12 furlong horse...
Any horse who has natural speed to win the 2000 Guineas El Gran Senor won is always going to be pushed to stay a mile and a half.
@@nightowl7459dancing brave won 2000 Guineas handy
I think people underestimate EGS by underestimating Secreto.
It's easy to blame EGS defeat on lack of stamina but I suspect Secreto was actually a very good horse.
He was beaten by Sadlers Wells the start before, not a bad horse. Rousillon behind him.
The Sadlers Wells and Rainbow Quest form stacked up against the best around for the rest of the season and the year after.
I don't think this was a poor or average Derby at all.the first two were very good horses.
Still can't believe he didn't win....
Everyone should have first read the official biography "Vincent O'Brien" by Jacqueline O'Brien and Ivor Herbert (2005).
Eddery knew about his horse's doubtful stamina, was left in front two furlongs out and was concerned about "the hill". He did say "If I'd won by four inches, you'd say he stayed".
Far from being upset by his own horse getting beaten, Vincent was thrilled that his son's horse had won.
Any reference to and comparison with Starkey's ride on Dancing Brave, in quite different circumstances, is irrelevant.
In an interview given by Pat Eddery about this race. He said the reason why he lost the race is because El Gran Senor needs to be taken to the front at the very last 100 yds. However the horse in front weakened very quickly, leaving him in the lead too early.
I dont think Eddery gave him a bad ride at all. He gave EGS fully well over a furlong to quicken up and he didnt . Plain and simple. Reminds me of Harchibald in the champion hurdle .
Well spoke
No doubt EGS stayed 12f, his winning time was faster than Shergar's in '81
The Irish Derby, not Epsom
With such a diminishing margin it is easy to understand why people blame Pat Eddery. If he had produced EGS a little further behind the pack, would he have won? Maybe, maybe not, its too hard to say. I think he was just simply out stayed. I am not saying he didn't stay 12f.
I was there. What a day!
El Gran Senor. The fastest horse i ever saw. Pat Eddery left his brain in the locker room that day. The Derby. The only race he lost
@XLadyClaireX Secreto outstayed him. Pat & Christy were giving everything with EGS a neck up. The best 12f horse won on the day just like Pour Moi needed every yard of the mile and a half last saturday.
Don't think Eddery did much wrong (perhaps showboating?). The final furlong has proved critical in other runnings of the race.
People forget christy roche gave the winner a brilliant ride never gave up 😊
No jockey would give up when fighting out the finish of the Derby.
@@Dangermoose-rv6bb l know that l knew Christys sister Marie l played soccer with bansha Celtic stayed in her house lovely woman gave me st jovite when that won Christy rang her wasn't all about eddery as people made out
This is my horses grandsire😍
That race more than any other BROKE Vincent O'Brien's heart , absolutely, i would it go as far as to say it destroyed a part of him he simply Adored the Senor he was much more than just a race horse to the Great Man , and ultimately it led to a parting of the ways with Pat Eddery a year later
NOT Eddery's Finest hour like when he was at the kids party...showboating like that in a Derby i bet Vincent was FURIOUS afterwards
Other than dancing brave, this was the best horse not to win the derby
Nothing wrong with the ride at all. Just outstayed by the winner.
I had the forecast so i loved it
Don't you think the BBC does the Derby race coverage much better than Channel 4.
V E N E Z U E L A.
Personally I would have had to go with Pat’s assessment where horses were dying all round him and he was in front, in advance of game plan. He was the man in charge and would have obviously been aware of the hill finding him out , and with doubts of true staying potential he probably was also aware of the quandary of hitting front too soon. Easy for those riding arm chair finishes with a rolled up copy of the Sporting life. Nevertheless he would have seen most dangers dropping away which might have prompted him to kick early. I had £100 ew SECRETO and was therefore full of praise to Christy Roche who refused to accept 2nd place. Irish Derby evolved perfect for ELG although was not won by staying. It is ironic that for want of a nose EDDERY and STARKY have both left wonderful finishes in the dustbin.
@raekiesha The BBC does ALL of its racing better than Channel 4. What a shame there are only about 11 televised meetings a year.
one of the forgotten great s wonder if he was as good as dancing brave
Actually I don't think Starkey gave DB a bad ride,he was so unbalanced coming around Tattenham corner,he obviously didn't act on the uneven ground sadly. As for Eddery sheesh,he should have won that Derby in my opinion.
Great race !!!!!
Secreto only had 4 starts in his life ,
I have never seen a horse travelled so well and finds nothing at the end
Harchibald , champion hurdle .
Pacemaker Cataldi won the Lincoln the following year
If you watch the race carefully, Secreto was hard at work a long way out, which suggests he was more a stayer than a speed horse. The Derby always fancies a stayer over speed, unless you truly stay a mile and a half, then you will always be an El Gran Senor....a brilliant loser.
If ye looked at it to the furlong pole you’d get up an stick the kettle on already knowing the outcome but just after the furlong pole he gassed out with nothin left the other fella just outstayed him
El gran señor didn't quite stay even though he won the Irish derby the pace was slow that day. Pat should have timed his challenge much later though
He would have been great over ten furlongs but probably wasn't a true mile and a half horse, but his class got him home.
How anyone can say EGS didn't last the mile and half is laughable. If Eddery had kicked earlier at point of looking over shoulder he would have won. If he didn't last the distance he wouldn't be a nose short
If he'd kicked earlier, he'd have been beaten further...running on fumes at the line
I'm guessing. if El Gran Senor came down the outside, towards the centre of the track, away from the other horses, or perhaps made his move earlier, he'd have got the job done.. He reminds me of Australia a bit..
It was actually a poor Derby. A stayer flat out to beat a non stayer, exciting race but a poor derby
If you think that was a bad ride by Pat then you know jack shit about racing. He nursed him to get the 12F but the winner - also a Northern Dancer - was more stoutly bred for the trip. EGS was a wonder horse that won at The Curragh after but Epsom was a tougher test. 2 great horses and a great race.
how can all the people on here keep saying he was a miler only,when he won the Irish derby easily ,the second easily beaten who was an arc winner
I totally agree , he wasn't slowing down in this race in fact he put up a great fight against a tough battler in Secreto
I'm maybe splitting hairs here but El Gran Senor didn't actually beat an Arc winner in the Irish Derby but beat a horse that went on to win it (albeit via a stewards) the following year as a 4YO, but that's just the finer detail and I get the general point being made, that he beat Rainbow Quest in the Irish Derby and that horse got 12f.
He was truly great at a mile. Chief Singer was great, and EGS beat him well.
No Chief Singers in Frankels 2000G.
Dubwai Gold might be tail off in EGS 2000Gs.😂
Frankel was cooked, exhausted , EGS was floating effortlessly to the finish. The difference is amazing. Apart from maybe the Brigadier, There are no better 3yo millers then EGS ever.
Great Jockey, probably his worst ever ride!!
Too harsh
I know one thing for gods sure - if Mr a Piggott had rode EGS would have won.
swap jockeys, different result, end of argument. It will rightly always haunt eddery
i certain mr l piggott would have won on the bridle
Christy roche wants to whack the horse a bit more on his run In
He should have been disqualified for beating Secreto 50 times with the whip held high, absolutely no thought of the horse. No wonder he never ran again. Still who cared, especially after they sold him for 20 million dollars
Venezuela
Eddery did nothing wrong. If he'd have held onto him for longer he'd have been crucified for getting beat. EGS brilliant miler/ 1m 2f horse but Secreto just outstayed him. It was still a fine performance over trip that taxed him..
Taking a pull over two when he should have just carried on cruising into the lead blew it
He neither took a pull nor dropped his hands, he just didn't get the quickening response from his horse that he expected.
The horse got 12f well enough but just got outstayed by the winner.
Eddery took the piss with a look around trying to show his horse was going well and got caught out. He should have gone for home in the straight and beaten Secreto mentally, I don't mind as my bet was on Secreto, EGS wasover rated that year in my opinion|
'Missing me?'. He wasn't wrong either. Lester would have won on El Gran Senor.
Pat Eddery was a great jockey but Lester Piggot was a greater one. Piss poor ride by Eddery in the last 2 furlongs. Didn't need to be all out but needed to be urging the horse on. Got caught a bit flat footed. Only needed another nose. Surely could have got that somewhere. Watch the last 25m of the race. Lester found at least a half length. Difference was the better jockey of the poorer horse beating the poorer jockey on the better horse.
Rubbish.
Bxlls!
the pig would have won on him
Lester Piggott would have carried El Gran Senor to victory.
When horse racing was truly crooked
All comments
Come into the real. World
Winner was backed from
50/ 1
After finishing placed
In the Irish 2000.guinness
3rd or 4th
Over 1 mile
Crying out for 1 mile and
Half
Cristy Roche. Told
O Brien. Horse needs further
Money was down
From 50.to.1
Sp was 9.to.1
Or 11.to1
Forget however
Pat eddery
Looked around Wheare are u
Cristy Roche. Drove on
Think el gran senior
Was 8 to 11 fav
Eddery objected
Just to make it luck
As if. Christy Roche
Stole the race
Tht was just the way
Not to show
Tht it was an out and
Out stroke
Eddery let him win
End of story
Thts a fact
He'd have waited to go
To the front.
If secrecto Wasent
In the race
And would have won
Moving on. Few weeks
Later well u wouldent
Belive it
Rematch in the Irish
Derby
Same 2 horses
But Thursday
Of tht week
48 hours
Before Irish
Derby
Secretto
Was suppose to
Go lame or some
Excuses
As tht what they
Got away with
So we all know
Who won the irish
Derby. El gran senior
Pulled clear of the field
So the o briens
Father and son
Had their doubles
Up.
Before the races began
They new dam well
What they Wheare
Doing. Fact 50./1
They backed secretto at
Doubles
For cast
. I backed secretto
Anti Post 25/ 1
Vincent ó Brien
Instructed eddery to
Object just to
Blame. Secretto
In leaning in on him
But he Dident
It was the other way round
So. Thts what ó bríens
Done in the 70 s
And 80 s
And got away with it
Father and son job
Fix