Yay, great job on this. I also believe the three Regulators are right there within inches of where they were laid to rest. I have been there 3 times, and how far away from the Pecos it was always boggled my mind. Especially after all the nay sayers arguing about how they were washed away. David Thomas explains it well in his book also. At best, the original grave marker was washed away. Also, I'm pretty sure the Paulita account, about Pete and a cousin scaring Paulita and offering $10 to go to Billy's grave and back. Well, she brought something back, can't remember what it was. Not sure if it was the Post Cemetery fence post or Billy's grave marker? But, she explained how far it was from the house. It seems, the only people are Brushy advocates who believe Billy is not there. And they are very well decieved in my opinion.
Right. But the answer is, there’s probably 8-10 graves in that area. I’m not sure how GPR would help you know which one was Billys? A court order allowing you to dig would only allow his grave to be disturbed so you might have trouble finding a judge who believed you would dig the correct one.
@@MankindMediaLLC it wouldn't help it identifying. But help in knowing location of whats under it. If the maps is close to being correct. You can pin point in the hopes of one day getting DNA from the best guess to being the one
I agree. GPR would at least tell us if the map is really accurate. We won’t know who’s in the grave, but we could compare the GPR results with the map, and any other verbal descriptions of where Billy is, and be able to say that the grave purported to hold Billy the Kid is in this exact spot. It would also tell us depth, angle, size and other important details that we don’t already know. And it wouldn’t disturb any of the graves.
How you explain this makes sense. I was told many years ago the cemetery and town was washed away, but when I went there the ground did not appear that way. So I can see why it is confusing to many. So that area flooded and was under water but the ground did not wash away. Makes sense also they would be buried near eachother considering time of death was close. Thank you for this video. Very informative.
Just my opinion but I think the misnomer that the "cemetary washed away" probably comes from people referring to wood grave markers washing away and stones being pushed over by the water. That would make sense but for the actual caskets to wash away that ground would have to be saturated to the point of being the consistancy of soup. And as you pointed out, all of the military graves were located ie did not wash away. Another great video MAG!
Thank you! Someone pointed out to me.....we make houses from that dirt mixed with water (adobe) and so the chances of water moving those caskets is nil...
This was very interesting facts about the grave site. I realize what we are told and see most of the time is false. You have info that helps organize what reality is. Appreciate it.
Thank you for this! I’ve only ever been to Fort Sumner one time and it was after hours so everything was closed. I was only able to walk into the cemetery so this was really interesting to me.
Thank you for answering the "Graves washed away" story I have been hearing for years now! I didn't know about someone going into that cemetery and taking away soldier's remains for a re burial elsewhere! If Billy the Kid was the only one of those three guys that had prominent front teeth, his skull should be easy to identify. That is if his teeth are still attached! I am torn between wanting to dig up the graves to finally find out,and respect for him to rest in peace!🌹💕🙏
I feel the same way....but lately have leaned toward wanting the grave left alone. At this point, I think anyone who believes that Garrett didn't kill The Kid wouldn't change their mind anyway....and would question even DNA evidence if available.
@@MankindMediaLLC Yes, you are right! After they exhumed the skeletons of the Czar Nicholas and his family, the DNA was available to prove that Anna Anderson (The lady who claimed she was the Grand duchess Anastasia Romanov) was not the youngest daughter of the Czar who escaped Russia. There are people to this day who want to believe in the fairy tale happy ending. I guess it's human nature to want our heros to escape from death! Thank you for your reply, take care!🙏
That was awesome MAG! Have seen lots of vlogs of the grave, but they never show the complete area. The satellite overlay (very cool) on Woodrow's map has me convinced that that is the right place where Billy is buried. Grave 30?... poor Tom or Charlie are under that path. Also, I thought the Pecos river was much closer, so I agree, the graves probably were't washed away at all. I just hope some one didn't go there and remove/move the body? It's sad that Tom, Charlie and Billy died the way they did 😢I think they were very brave men. The fence/adobe wall really suits the vibe of the place...very New Mexico. I would love to go there one day. Another favourite video ...thanks so much. 🙏❤🤠 P.S. Love your shirt.
You do good filming and this suggestion is amaturish but for overall orientation a couple 360"s would help. Pick a fence corner or road intersection and just pan slowly around , maybe 10 sec to complete. Also walking to the river and showing the view toward the cemetary. People seeing the Pecos might then realize it's more a large "Eastern creek". Also if at the riverbank (even better if you crossed and got it from the far Bank with the river in the foreground) you shot from a squat or lying down the four foot or so rise from water level to cemetary might be shown better.
I didn't have anyone to operate the camera or we would have had much better cinematography. I like the idea of the 360 or better yet...a drone shot. I do have more footage to show you in another episode that'll be more of what you asked for here. Thanks!
@@MankindMediaLLC I am from Fort Sumner, my whole family on both sides are from there. Before the dam was build the Pecos River was much larger than it is today. My 4 Great Gandfather Seldon Truijillo was friends with billy the kid, also Pat Garretts first wife was my cousin.
That depends on what you consider as proof. Eyewitnesses? Yes....Coroner's Jury? Yes.... I"m not sure what other proof could be available about the remains in any grave from 140 years ago?
@@MankindMediaLLC Also those documents were written in Spanish, so I do not think many people are aware of the fact that there was an inquest and witnesses to certify that was Billy the Kid's body. New Mexico was a territory, not a state back in the 1880s. The English translation of documents was not required by law.
I was there in the late 90’s and was told the reason why they put a cage around the grave is because people kept stealing the headstone 🪦. I was told that a truck driver stoled it and had it in his garage for months or years. I can’t remember how long he had it but somehow he got caught. Then it was stolen again and they found it. That’s when they put the cage around it. I don’t know if this is true but I was talking to one of the Locals and this is what they told me. Keep your videos coming!!! Thanks
That's all absolutely true....except the truck driver from CA was the 2nd one to steal it. He showed it at a party at this house and someone called the state police. One of my guys got him on the phone a couple months ago and he just said he didn't want to talk and hung up!
It's so crazy how the answers to so many questions are only 6 feet underneath that ground.
I've had that same thought while standing there.....
@@MankindMediaLLC Your next video should be digging up the grave. Guaranteed it will be your most viewed video :)
Fantastic video. Very thorough and informative. I really enjoyed it.
Good stuff MAG.... Keep it coming.....
Yay, great job on this. I also believe the three Regulators are right there within inches of where they were laid to rest. I have been there 3 times, and how far away from the Pecos it was always boggled my mind. Especially after all the nay sayers arguing about how they were washed away. David Thomas explains it well in his book also. At best, the original grave marker was washed away. Also, I'm pretty sure the Paulita account, about Pete and a cousin scaring Paulita and offering $10 to go to Billy's grave and back. Well, she brought something back, can't remember what it was. Not sure if it was the Post Cemetery fence post or Billy's grave marker? But, she explained how far it was from the house.
It seems, the only people are Brushy advocates who believe Billy is not there. And they are very well decieved in my opinion.
This why I asked on the live earlier this week about using ground penetrating radar to find the actual spots of the graves
Right. But the answer is, there’s probably 8-10 graves in that area. I’m not sure how GPR would help you know which one was Billys? A court order allowing you to dig would only allow his grave to be disturbed so you might have trouble finding a judge who believed you would dig the correct one.
@@MankindMediaLLC it wouldn't help it identifying. But help in knowing location of whats under it. If the maps is close to being correct. You can pin point in the hopes of one day getting DNA from the best guess to being the one
I agree. GPR would at least tell us if the map is really accurate. We won’t know who’s in the grave, but we could compare the GPR results with the map, and any other verbal descriptions of where Billy is, and be able to say that the grave purported to hold Billy the Kid is in this exact spot. It would also tell us depth, angle, size and other important details that we don’t already know. And it wouldn’t disturb any of the graves.
How you explain this makes sense. I was told many years ago the cemetery and town was washed away, but when I went there the ground did not appear that way. So I can see why it is confusing to many. So that area flooded and was under water but the ground did not wash away. Makes sense also they would be buried near eachother considering time of death was close. Thank you for this video. Very informative.
Thanks, I had never seen that overlay map. You convinced me!
great videos
Just my opinion but I think the misnomer that the "cemetary washed away" probably comes from people referring to wood grave markers washing away and stones being pushed over by the water. That would make sense but for the actual caskets to wash away that ground would have to be saturated to the point of being the consistancy of soup. And as you pointed out, all of the military graves were located ie did not wash away. Another great video MAG!
Thank you! Someone pointed out to me.....we make houses from that dirt mixed with water (adobe) and so the chances of water moving those caskets is nil...
This was very interesting facts about the grave site. I realize what we are told and see most of the time is false. You have info that helps organize what reality is. Appreciate it.
Great documentary.
Whoa. Awesome video. Would love to see that in person. Some great insight too. Thanks!
Thank you for this! I’ve only ever been to Fort Sumner one time and it was after hours so everything was closed. I was only able to walk into the cemetery so this was really interesting to me.
We're gonna have a little side trip before BillyPalooza next year to Sumner to check it all out....join us!
@@MankindMediaLLC I’m planning to!
I’d like to meet up with you guys there. Let me know when.
Thank you for answering the "Graves washed away" story I have been hearing for years now! I didn't know about someone going into that cemetery and taking away soldier's remains for a re burial elsewhere! If Billy the Kid was the only one of those three guys that had prominent front teeth, his skull should be easy to identify. That is if his teeth are still attached! I am torn between wanting to dig up the graves to finally find out,and respect for him to rest in peace!🌹💕🙏
I feel the same way....but lately have leaned toward wanting the grave left alone. At this point, I think anyone who believes that Garrett didn't kill The Kid wouldn't change their mind anyway....and would question even DNA evidence if available.
@@MankindMediaLLC Yes, you are right! After they exhumed the skeletons of the Czar Nicholas and his family, the DNA was available to prove that Anna Anderson (The lady who claimed she was the Grand duchess Anastasia Romanov) was not the youngest daughter of the Czar who escaped Russia. There are people to this day who want to believe in the fairy tale happy ending. I guess it's human nature to want our heros to escape from death! Thank you for your reply, take care!🙏
That was awesome MAG! Have seen lots of vlogs of the grave, but they never show the complete area. The satellite overlay (very cool) on Woodrow's map has me convinced that that is the right place where Billy is buried.
Grave 30?... poor Tom or Charlie are under that path. Also, I thought the Pecos river was much closer, so I agree, the graves probably were't washed away at all. I just hope some one didn't go there and remove/move the body?
It's sad that Tom, Charlie and Billy died the way they did 😢I think they were very brave men.
The fence/adobe wall really suits the vibe of the place...very New Mexico. I would love to go there one day. Another favourite video ...thanks so much. 🙏❤🤠
P.S. Love your shirt.
Thanks...that shirt is one of my favorites! Now as far as moving the body? I've got some stuff to show you all that'll make you think twice.....
@@MankindMediaLLC Wow...that sounds intriguing.
Another great outing for BtK information! Hopefully they are there where they are supposed to be.
You do good filming and this suggestion is amaturish but for overall orientation a couple 360"s would help. Pick a fence corner or road intersection and just pan slowly around , maybe 10 sec to complete. Also walking to the river and showing the view toward the cemetary. People seeing the Pecos might then realize it's more a large "Eastern creek".
Also if at the riverbank (even better if you crossed and got it from the far Bank with the river in the foreground) you shot from a squat or lying down the four foot or so rise from water level to cemetary might be shown better.
I didn't have anyone to operate the camera or we would have had much better cinematography. I like the idea of the 360 or better yet...a drone shot. I do have more footage to show you in another episode that'll be more of what you asked for here. Thanks!
@@MankindMediaLLC I am from Fort Sumner, my whole family on both sides are from there. Before the dam was build the Pecos River was much larger than it is today. My 4 Great Gandfather Seldon Truijillo was friends with billy the kid, also Pat Garretts first wife was my cousin.
If Billy is really buried there then who the hell is buried in Grant's tomb?!?
Just trust the head stones that are there. Joe Grant is under Grants tomb.
Hello Michael
Howdy Taylor.
Also I have never heard anyone metion that the graves washed away. I know the Tombstone were washed away.
Lots of Brushy Bill believers cite this disproven notion to justify that it would be impossible to even know which grave was Billy's.
Billy lived on well past 1881.
Just show some proof of that. We’ll wait another 140 years.
“ now let’s rob the bank, give the money to the poor, then rob the poor and shoot the Money, ye-haw “
--- Billy the Kid----
Pecos flooded and flooded big
Problem is its not proof Billy was ever in that grave to start with unless permission is given to dig it up and get a DNA sample
That depends on what you consider as proof. Eyewitnesses? Yes....Coroner's Jury? Yes.... I"m not sure what other proof could be available about the remains in any grave from 140 years ago?
@@MankindMediaLLC Also those documents were written in Spanish, so I do not think many people are aware of the fact that there was an inquest and witnesses to certify that was Billy the Kid's body. New Mexico was a territory, not a state back in the 1880s. The English translation of documents was not required by law.
👍
I was there in the late 90’s and was told the reason why they put a cage around the grave is because people kept stealing the headstone 🪦. I was told that a truck driver stoled it and had it in his garage for months or years. I can’t remember how long he had it but somehow he got caught. Then it was stolen again and they found it. That’s when they put the cage around it. I don’t know if this is true but I was talking to one of the Locals and this is what they told me. Keep your videos coming!!! Thanks
That's all absolutely true....except the truck driver from CA was the 2nd one to steal it. He showed it at a party at this house and someone called the state police. One of my guys got him on the phone a couple months ago and he just said he didn't want to talk and hung up!
@@MankindMediaLLC I can say one thing about you, you do your homework.
@@BBFtB would have been fun at least to figure out how he did it?