I just want to say thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts on this video. Normally I would answer everyone but I’m unfortunately busy today I’ll do my best to eventually read everyone’s comments and answering when I can.
NOT a mistake. As powerful as her “Delaudna” form was… it came at the cost of Delilah taking control and harming everyone just to save herself. It’s not worth losing her autonomy yet again.
Imagine a situation where there's a final battle similar to C1. A 9th level spell is thrown, perhaps a counterspell or a wish or something equally important and... nothing. Delilah refuses to send said spell. What they've done is seemingly remove that possibility from happening as she's now a battery to be bled dry. I think the failstate is instead what happens to her if Laudna dies, as I believe she'll be released.
I definitely think Matt has a lot in store for his players. He's been giving them all some sort of powerups. As for Laudna i think shes going to lean into the whole Tree symbolics and we gonna have another Fjord moment where a warlcok will devote themselves to the wildmother becasue she saves them.
@@igor4e I highly doubt laudna will go into devotion to a god but I like the idea of leaning into tree symbolism more maybe leaning into the primordials
I think before she had to worry that Delilah would take over and hurt her friends, we saw that not long ago when Delilah tried to get otohan's sword and hurt Orym now she can't and Laudna can pull from Delilah without worry. And that DeLaudna form from 102 wasn't that strong really it was basically summoning undead and a high-level wizard ability as that summoned Craven edge was the 9th level spell Blade of Disaster that was just thematically shown to be Craven edge like how jester's spiritual weapon was shown as a lollipop or the shadow Hounds from Laudna were themed to look like Delilah's hounds from the vox machina animated series. As for a buff to Laudna, I think if they go back to White Stone (WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE ALREADY), she can pull some power from the sun tree that it willingly gives and gives her a death and life buff to her form of dread 1 that deals damage to all in the radius and heals her half that(death), or heals everyone else but her and gives her a buff to attack rolls by the number of allies in the radius. And Orym's buff can be otohan's back pack giving him the echo knight abilities on top of his own battle master ones.
I agree, but one correction (which might be wrong anyway). It wasn't *technically* Delilah who controlled her to want the sword even though she is the one getting fed by it, it was still Laudna. She's being played like an addict, but specifically addicted to power, which she believes can only be given by Delilah if she collects these items and lets her consume them (similar to overcharging a battery). Delilah is a good excuse and clearly wants the sword to consume and add to her power, but we can't fully blame Delilah when it was also Laudna in control and her need for power that put that situation in motion as well.
@Melina_Evarblume_Seelie when i said Delilah controlled her, it was a simple way of saying that then explaining the 90 odd episodes of manipulation that Delilah has done too get laudna to do what she wants willingly. In other words, controlling her without taking control of her.
depending on what happens and who press the big ol' red button, they could fight themselves, ludinus & the weavemind or predathos, knowing Bells Hells behaviour, it will be all 3 at the same time. i still think ashton was op even before the titan shard, like path of the primal chaos is broken af. now having a form thats invulnerable to damage feels absurd. except if it psychic damge, maybe the weave mind ends up controlling him in battle and he causes the tpk.
That would be too much of a meta-gaming move. So I don't think this is a mistake, and also, wasn't the whole point for Laudna to still be able to use Delilah's power? Especially when the Aeorian tech might allow for a trapped being to be used as a power source against their will?
@@marty2129 my question is how much power will she be able to use I highly doubt she’ll be alone to use all her power and Delilah more then likely fight back inside it a little bit so who knows until more is revealed and it is a little meta gamey but they’ve done stuff like that before made meta choices that is I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility one of them suggests the use of this power
I agree, this was kind of a mistake for multiple reasons. The biggest being that Laudna is now a narrative dead end. People constantly questioned why Laudna would empower Delilah or parlay with her- and it’s because Laudna isn’t interesting without her relationship with Delilah. Sure she can be silly or creepy, but narratively there wouldn’t be much to keep her going besides her relationship with Imogen which just makes her a secondary character. The push and pull helps her stay relevant. By erasing it, any and all narrative focus on Laudna is virtually gone, because Delilah isn’t even remotely a threat anymore. The only way I can think of this going south is Ludinus casting dispel magic on the prison (which can be seen from her chest as it glows). Delilah is now furious and won’t help Laudna for shit- even though Laudna can steal her power she can’t steal her knowledge, and that’s the knowledge of a level 20 wizard. Whereas before she was willing to pitch in from time to time. My biggest issue is that it felt like Bells bells and the cast themselves were letting their emotions of Delilah from campaign one cloud how they interacted with her this campaign. Yes she’s evil, calculating and ruthless- but she’s not entirely unreasonable. They continuously treated her as this loathsome entity who couldn’t be negotiated with, even though Delilah would’ve probably been very receptive to it so long as they delivered on their end of things. Laudna kept requesting power from Delilah, but almost never fed her. The fact Delilah didn’t blow up at them earlier is a testament to her patience.
I don't agree that makes her a narrative dead end. If you question why laudna is there outside of her relationship with Imogen, you also have to question why chetney is there. Why dorian is there. Why ashton is there. Why orym is there. The only two that strictly have a mechanical and whatever else reason to be there are imogen and fearne. Even Braius is there cause of personal reasons. Why would Laudna's be a narrative dead end? She is the one that has voiced a few of the most sympathetic view on the gods, she has a girlfriend heavily entrenched in this game, she was killed by vanguard and all she did and sacrificed to delilah was for this cause. Orym's reasons are also deeply personal as he is so focused of his dead family. Chetney doesn't even have a "true" reason, he is just there. Ashton, philosophically, has all the reason to NOT be there. We are gearing up towards a point where we have to be done with personal storylines to be able to reach endgame. It doesn't make a character narratively irrelevant as they are still very much part of the world, of the fights, of the discussions and decision making. All the c2 characters(except caleb) had their shit figured out by the end and none of them became a narrative dead end.
I kept saying, even from the previous episode, to suck Delilah out fully from Laudna and sever their link. Use some healing spell to keep Laudna alive while Delilah is locked within the soul anchor. Then have Laudna put on the vest and suck out all of Delilah’s power permanently. I believe it could have been done while allowing Laudna to live on her own terms and get all the power without the danger of Delilah in the background.
I think Matt will have some new power options for Marisha next episode. They put out their level 14 hit points video and she did not choose her level of Warlock or Sorcerer yet. She said she was going to wait for the outcome of the ritual. So now Matt can shape her new features based on what she chooses. I think removing the wildcard of Delilah taking over and attacking the party or causing more chaos is a good thing. Plus, the next time they face Ludinus they can possibly use this to their advantage. Either something he does to try and draw Delilah out doesn't work and catches him off guard, or Laudna pretends to be taken over and then surprises him. Could be a really cool moment... But honestly, they might just gloat the moment they see him because Bell Hells are just weird like that...
@@DeRoxx4114 I’m interested in what she picked she was picking warlock as Deligha was there but she might just start pushing more sorcerer and I hope she gets some Sort of light form of dread so bad
Who gave the soul anchor? Of course they put her in there and now .....or later Ludinus is going to steal it and break it. Then they will need to fight Delilah or something stupid. Seems easy to me what Matt did there. I think she will get the buff because Matt sort of explained it. You have the power, but you just need to pull it from her now. EDIT: I need to hang tight to listen to your ENTIRE awesome videos before commenting. Maybe I'll learn. Sorry bro. Anyway, I think the power is the same and it is there. She will NEED to learn how to pull it forcefully now. A few episodes later maybe Matt will allow this or during some dire moment (fight with the powers they need to fight, like you said).
@@joeblow7735 I’m purely talking game mechanics the story makes sense not having to deal with Delilah is good but from a gameplay standpoint having that power up in the back pocket might’ve been useful
The funnt thing is, you could have made the exact same video, about the same topic, if Laudna HAVEN'T used the soul anchor. Having someone like Delilah in the back of your head during a crucial moment like preventing a mad wizard from releasing a god eater, is a terrible position to be in. Could Delilah be used to buff Laudna? Yes. Are there other possible ways to buff Laudna that don't involve messing with Delilah? Absolutely. I will say more, thinking that it's a mistake to just get rid-off of Delilah, instead of trying to simphon her power, is a similar level of hubris to whatever Cerberus Assembly mages have going on xD
I don't know if it was a mistake. I got a feeling that Delilah is gonna be out of that seal during the final moments of Campaign 3. As to how, that's hard to say, but it's possible since we know Raishan did that to let Thordak out back in C1, although the one Delilah is from Aeor. But who knows what Matt is cooking up in the shadows.
@@michaelgibson3479 I get the feeling they can’t remove the soul anchor from laudna now if they did Delilah might get out I’m not sure how absorbing Delilah would go but it might just give the same effects they soul anchor does now
@@ZodiacBandit she did indeed *"claim"* that. But what would she have to gain from admitting, removing her entirely, wouldn't kill laudna. (Tell them that last saving-throw (that kept her on the other side of the strings in terms of power (but not knowledge) but still alive to bargain/gaslight) was not for Laudna life, merely for 3 levels in warlock) What would she have to gain from conseding the staring-contests (generally) with Imogen. (About what they would do to contain her) The purpose of 'the nuclear option' is not to use it, but to threathen using it. The core idea of 'mutually assured destruction' The main reason they took the risk this time, was because Laudna was pushed to the point she considered 'mutually assured destruction' a step up from the current situation. The nox-engine soul-anchor was secondary. Would Delilah kill Laudna out of spite, if her own demise is a given? Yes, absolutely. Would Delilah kill Laudna out of spite, if her plan M, "here's the deal, attach this amulet to that titan-cityblock and crack it. If you do so, I'll not only fight by your side as the Titan, but if we both make it through, I'll tell you [that big secret, you've been looking for]" would take too long and rather die? Nope, she most definitely would not.
@@user-jn4sw3iw4h I think you give Delilah to much credit she’s shown in the past a willingness to throw her life away in anger she’d absolutely kill Laudna at this point to spite her
@@ZodiacBandit Which moment are you referring to? Moments of lost control, when either the god she was creating or "The man she broke the world for" were on the line.... Sure. Withholding a powerup that could have prevented a TPK, now that she's bound to an object inside Laudna instead of Laudna herself. Likely. (something which indeed likely would not happen, back when Laudna herself was the bottle) Planning to make sure Laudna (and only Laudna) falls, making sure the new object that is her new 'bottle' falls into the hands of those who would want her dead, rather than (eventually) in the hands of someone who doesn't know. Not something I would expect from someone who effectively succeeded to create a 'living' phylactery without becoming a lich. I agree that losing it and.... would fit "There is only really one reason for power: to protect those you love. And if that fails, vengeance is a pretty decent second goal." I'm just not nearly as sold on the assumption, she considered she has irreversibly failed. (Nor that Laudna is the greatest vengeance target in (eventual) reach)
I think you misunderstood, she has full access to Delilah’s powers without asking her. She can just take it. She’s in control now. Delilah only has as much access as Laudna allows. (No more spring)
@@shadowpsykie I got that and he said she can take it my only thing about is it’s Likely gonna be less then what she could’ve gotten the form Delilah used verse what she might get now is gonna be night and day and a potentially missed opportunity for them to use Delilah in a different way
@@ZodiacBandit I disagree. Matt said she had full access to her power. Not like “a portion to her power at a time” she no longer needs to ask for power. She can just take it at her will without her influence.
@@theshadowfax239 1 she’ll no longer be feeding Delilah power and she wasn’t at full strength to begin with so that option is no longer there 2 and this one is more so speculating but I feel like it makes more sense that with the nature of how the arrangement is Delilah will do whatever possible if anything possible to hold power back now this video was before later episodes came out showing more clearly what shape Delilah is in (chained up in a dark void) so things in my mind has changed but I don’t think this form of power is still within reach and Laudna does need to find another power up elsewhere
@@shadowpsykie I don’t know if that’s a transformation more just how his magic manifests I think Orym doesn’t need a transformation he got a boost from nana morri he might need another one but he’s already a menace
“Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity…” I think it can be argued that an Aeorian soul anchor counts as an artifact. 🤷♂️
I disagree, Delilah will not help the group... Delilah will save herself and Luadna that it. leaving the rest behind ... thinking Delilah will do something heroic will not happen.. Luadna having control is a good thing Luadna having her own thoughts is a good thing.
@@raymondf3670 she definitely wouldn’t be heroic in any scenario but I can see a fight where she gives more power to laudna to save herself and by proxy save the party
I argue it was too late. The whole character concept of Laudna is brilliant. And Delilah has been a cool antagonist for her. But she's overstayed her welcome. Having her as an antagonist going into the final arc where they take on Ludinus directly clutters things up. Ideally everyone has their shit together going into, or not long after the start of the final arc. Look at all the major character arcs for both VM and M9. Going into the Aeor and Vecna arcs, everyone has more or less dealt with their demons, except Caleb. Even Fjord had dealt with his by casting off Ukatoah and killing Avantica. The only thing left is to actually kill (or banish) Ukatoah, but that doesn't impact his character. He's free of Ukatoah's control long before that. Caleb is the only one who hasn't faced his past trauma going into Aeor. He only faces it in the epilogue, where he declines the power to travel through time. But that's the final step in a long journey that he's taken long before that. So all the character growth is done before going into the final arc so they can focus on the job at hand. And they had the perfect out with Laudna's death, and the fight with Delilah. What I wish had happened was Matt starting episode 38 with Marisha alone at the table. Have her go 1:1 with Delilah, and if she wins, she takes Delilah's power for herself and brings herself back to undeath. It would have been great character growth, provided a fitting end to Delilah, given her a power boost, and provided an explanation why she came back as a hollow one rather than human as one would expect with resurrection. We would have lost the tension of Delilah having more influence over her after Bor'dor, but then again, we could have had an interesting arc with her going darker on her own volition, rather than influenced by Delilah. As for power now that Delilah is bound, there are other options for gathering power. And she's not the only one who needs a boost.
I agree getting rid of Delilah for story reasons is good it would’ve absolutely cluttered up the ending and this way that thread isn’t left open at the end like I feared it may have been
In terms of power-ups I do think that Laudna will receive a Delilah power-up with her being trapped and Laudna being able to take her power. They did say that the power Laudna draws from to use warlock powers was accessible for her to use, I don't think it would be weeker than if Delilah was free - in fact it might be stronger as it has no chance of Delilah taking over if used. Also if they hit level 20 and Laudna has 17 levels in sorcerer than she could use the Craven Edge ability. It's a 9th level spell called [Blade of Disaster] and it is even more powerful than Matt actually used as he miscalculated which dice are doubled on a crit. I would like to see power-ups for the others (Orymn, Braius, Chentney) - I do think that Orymn and Braius might receive power from the gods and Chentney might get a smaller version of the Gorgynei training. My complaint with Delilah in C3 was the pacing, as it kept popping up at the wrong parts and derailed from important parts. Like many other elements of C3 have been rushed so we can return to the main story (like Graz'tchar and the lack of character driven story replaced with narrative driven story). Why was the major reveal of Sownfall was interrupted with Delilah? So far no one has really had anytime to comment on it apart from the Downfall players. In terms of plot pacing Delilah was a huge miss.
This is similar to Nott the Goblin losing the curse and becoming a plain ordinary house mum halfling. Sam realized his story was over and retired Veth at the best possible moment. I think Marisha will feel a secondary character for the end of the campaign.
Idk if a second character will come in the rest of laudna’s story is with Imogen and being her rock for the difficult times ahead I see your point and it’s possible but I’m not so sure
What are you talking about? This was a massive 'power-up' for Laudna because now she has 100% control of her body and her mind. We have ONLY seen Delilah attack the group, you think she is going to help them if she had control?
@@shnordo she would help laudna if they are in a fight and near death and by proxy that would help the party the issue is now Delilah will do anything to get back at laudna we know beings can break free from the soul anchor it’s not impossible to break out from it at least and I wasn’t suggesting Delilah having full control more so giving power to laudna in a bad situation laudna having full control is nice but the raw power Delilah had in that form was crazy hopefully laudna gets a new powerup because yes this is a “power up” to have control she’s still a bit behind the curve compared to the others
@@ZodiacBandit How did Delilah help Laudna when she was struck down by Otohan? The only help she has given the group is being the patron to Laudna's powers. in every single instance where we have seen Delilah, she has been actively working against BH for her own personal means. I don't know about you but I would rather have Laudna in my party now that Delilah is locked away knowing that she cannot personally attack the group, regardless of the power that Delilah could offer them. I repeat, Delilah while in control of Laudna has done nothing but hurt and attack the party. It's like you are saying it's better to stay in an abusive relationship because somewhere down the line they could help you, but they have shown no signs they would ever do that. I am baffled that people are saying this was a bad move. Delilah will never help anyone but herself. If it came down to letting her take control to prevent a TPK then that is a LOSS in my book, because she is one of the most evil characters that Matt has ever created. The ends do not justify the means, if those means are to let an abuser take control of their victim.
@@shnordo she wasn’t as strong back then she only got strong enough after absorbing magic items that’s why she didn’t help against otohan remember the bells fought her back in the early part of the campaign and she’s much stronger now I’m just saying they could’ve used that power up a few more times they know they can deal with laudna and Delilah they should use her powers And I think Delilah would do anything to stay alive even if that means saving laudna and by proxy saving the BH Ps don’t stay in abusive relationships I’m purely talking in game mechanics
@@ZodiacBandit I love that us passionate nerds can discuss these topics. We can agree to disagree on this topic. Personally, I think BH are way better off now that Delilah is locked away. Looking forward to your next vid. Cheers!
I just want to say thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts on this video. Normally I would answer everyone but I’m unfortunately busy today I’ll do my best to eventually read everyone’s comments and answering when I can.
NOT a mistake. As powerful as her “Delaudna” form was… it came at the cost of Delilah taking control and harming everyone just to save herself.
It’s not worth losing her autonomy yet again.
I truly believe the party could’ve handled it at least one more time I get not wanting to see it again but that’s was some raw power
Laudna has finally triumphed over her abuser.
That’s no mistake in my eyes.
I think it’s more of a “narrative buff.” The fact that she no longer has to actively worry about Delilah is more than enough for her and the party.
Yea very true not being a problem is a good buff lol
Imagine a situation where there's a final battle similar to C1.
A 9th level spell is thrown, perhaps a counterspell or a wish or something equally important and... nothing. Delilah refuses to send said spell.
What they've done is seemingly remove that possibility from happening as she's now a battery to be bled dry.
I think the failstate is instead what happens to her if Laudna dies, as I believe she'll be released.
I definitely think Matt has a lot in store for his players. He's been giving them all some sort of powerups. As for Laudna i think shes going to lean into the whole Tree symbolics and we gonna have another Fjord moment where a warlcok will devote themselves to the wildmother becasue she saves them.
@@igor4e I highly doubt laudna will go into devotion to a god but I like the idea of leaning into tree symbolism more maybe leaning into the primordials
Wild theory: Luadna is actually trapped Delilah is just pretending to be her.
I also think that Sam is going to betray them.
@@Banquet42 interesting theories for sure I to think braius is gonna turn
I think before she had to worry that Delilah would take over and hurt her friends, we saw that not long ago when Delilah tried to get otohan's sword and hurt Orym now she can't and Laudna can pull from Delilah without worry. And that DeLaudna form from 102 wasn't that strong really it was basically summoning undead and a high-level wizard ability as that summoned Craven edge was the 9th level spell Blade of Disaster that was just thematically shown to be Craven edge like how jester's spiritual weapon was shown as a lollipop or the shadow Hounds from Laudna were themed to look like Delilah's hounds from the vox machina animated series.
As for a buff to Laudna, I think if they go back to White Stone (WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE ALREADY), she can pull some power from the sun tree that it willingly gives and gives her a death and life buff to her form of dread 1 that deals damage to all in the radius and heals her half that(death), or heals everyone else but her and gives her a buff to attack rolls by the number of allies in the radius.
And Orym's buff can be otohan's back pack giving him the echo knight abilities on top of his own battle master ones.
I agree, but one correction (which might be wrong anyway).
It wasn't *technically* Delilah who controlled her to want the sword even though she is the one getting fed by it, it was still Laudna.
She's being played like an addict, but specifically addicted to power, which she believes can only be given by Delilah if she collects these items and lets her consume them (similar to overcharging a battery).
Delilah is a good excuse and clearly wants the sword to consume and add to her power, but we can't fully blame Delilah when it was also Laudna in control and her need for power that put that situation in motion as well.
@Melina_Evarblume_Seelie when i said Delilah controlled her, it was a simple way of saying that then explaining the 90 odd episodes of manipulation that Delilah has done too get laudna to do what she wants willingly. In other words, controlling her without taking control of her.
depending on what happens and who press the big ol' red button, they could fight themselves, ludinus & the weavemind or predathos, knowing Bells Hells behaviour, it will be all 3 at the same time.
i still think ashton was op even before the titan shard, like path of the primal chaos is broken af. now having a form thats invulnerable to damage feels absurd. except if it psychic damge, maybe the weave mind ends up controlling him in battle and he causes the tpk.
@@hadesblackplays the weave mind for sure have psychic damage
Actually, I wonder if the Vax orb can be replaced with the Delilah one because she too has a link to divinity- frail as it may be.
@@powerpuff6872 actually I kinda like this idea but would laudna have to sacrifice herself or would the raven queen give her life again?
That would be too much of a meta-gaming move. So I don't think this is a mistake, and also, wasn't the whole point for Laudna to still be able to use Delilah's power? Especially when the Aeorian tech might allow for a trapped being to be used as a power source against their will?
@@marty2129 my question is how much power will she be able to use I highly doubt she’ll be alone to use all her power and Delilah more then likely fight back inside it a little bit so who knows until more is revealed and it is a little meta gamey but they’ve done stuff like that before made meta choices that is I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility one of them suggests the use of this power
I agree, this was kind of a mistake for multiple reasons. The biggest being that Laudna is now a narrative dead end. People constantly questioned why Laudna would empower Delilah or parlay with her- and it’s because Laudna isn’t interesting without her relationship with Delilah. Sure she can be silly or creepy, but narratively there wouldn’t be much to keep her going besides her relationship with Imogen which just makes her a secondary character. The push and pull helps her stay relevant. By erasing it, any and all narrative focus on Laudna is virtually gone, because Delilah isn’t even remotely a threat anymore. The only way I can think of this going south is Ludinus casting dispel magic on the prison (which can be seen from her chest as it glows). Delilah is now furious and won’t help Laudna for shit- even though Laudna can steal her power she can’t steal her knowledge, and that’s the knowledge of a level 20 wizard. Whereas before she was willing to pitch in from time to time. My biggest issue is that it felt like Bells bells and the cast themselves were letting their emotions of Delilah from campaign one cloud how they interacted with her this campaign. Yes she’s evil, calculating and ruthless- but she’s not entirely unreasonable. They continuously treated her as this loathsome entity who couldn’t be negotiated with, even though Delilah would’ve probably been very receptive to it so long as they delivered on their end of things. Laudna kept requesting power from Delilah, but almost never fed her. The fact Delilah didn’t blow up at them earlier is a testament to her patience.
I don't agree that makes her a narrative dead end. If you question why laudna is there outside of her relationship with Imogen, you also have to question why chetney is there. Why dorian is there. Why ashton is there. Why orym is there. The only two that strictly have a mechanical and whatever else reason to be there are imogen and fearne. Even Braius is there cause of personal reasons. Why would Laudna's be a narrative dead end? She is the one that has voiced a few of the most sympathetic view on the gods, she has a girlfriend heavily entrenched in this game, she was killed by vanguard and all she did and sacrificed to delilah was for this cause. Orym's reasons are also deeply personal as he is so focused of his dead family. Chetney doesn't even have a "true" reason, he is just there. Ashton, philosophically, has all the reason to NOT be there. We are gearing up towards a point where we have to be done with personal storylines to be able to reach endgame. It doesn't make a character narratively irrelevant as they are still very much part of the world, of the fights, of the discussions and decision making.
All the c2 characters(except caleb) had their shit figured out by the end and none of them became a narrative dead end.
@@adoragrayskull Thank you for articulating what I was thinking in a much clearer way than I was thinking it!
@@patrickmcisaac3142 hahah, you're welcome!
I kept saying, even from the previous episode, to suck Delilah out fully from Laudna and sever their link. Use some healing spell to keep Laudna alive while Delilah is locked within the soul anchor. Then have Laudna put on the vest and suck out all of Delilah’s power permanently.
I believe it could have been done while allowing Laudna to live on her own terms and get all the power without the danger of Delilah in the background.
I think Matt will have some new power options for Marisha next episode. They put out their level 14 hit points video and she did not choose her level of Warlock or Sorcerer yet. She said she was going to wait for the outcome of the ritual. So now Matt can shape her new features based on what she chooses.
I think removing the wildcard of Delilah taking over and attacking the party or causing more chaos is a good thing. Plus, the next time they face Ludinus they can possibly use this to their advantage. Either something he does to try and draw Delilah out doesn't work and catches him off guard, or Laudna pretends to be taken over and then surprises him. Could be a really cool moment... But honestly, they might just gloat the moment they see him because Bell Hells are just weird like that...
@@DeRoxx4114 I’m interested in what she picked she was picking warlock as Deligha was there but she might just start pushing more sorcerer and I hope she gets some Sort of light form of dread so bad
@@ZodiacBandit I didn't think about how that could change. Laudna can finally become the fun-scary she has always wanted to be.
Where is the level up video
@@BarnVarn They posted the video on their twitter page.
@@BarnVarn x.com/criticalrole/status/1821683207516881218?s=46&t=G7PcnPCeKyoVMQqHegiSeQ
Who gave the soul anchor? Of course they put her in there and now .....or later Ludinus is going to steal it and break it. Then they will need to fight Delilah or something stupid. Seems easy to me what Matt did there. I think she will get the buff because Matt sort of explained it. You have the power, but you just need to pull it from her now. EDIT: I need to hang tight to listen to your ENTIRE awesome videos before commenting. Maybe I'll learn. Sorry bro. Anyway, I think the power is the same and it is there. She will NEED to learn how to pull it forcefully now. A few episodes later maybe Matt will allow this or during some dire moment (fight with the powers they need to fight, like you said).
@@joeblow7735 I’m purely talking game mechanics the story makes sense not having to deal with Delilah is good but from a gameplay standpoint having that power up in the back pocket might’ve been useful
The funnt thing is, you could have made the exact same video, about the same topic, if Laudna HAVEN'T used the soul anchor.
Having someone like Delilah in the back of your head during a crucial moment like preventing a mad wizard from releasing a god eater, is a terrible position to be in.
Could Delilah be used to buff Laudna? Yes.
Are there other possible ways to buff Laudna that don't involve messing with Delilah? Absolutely.
I will say more, thinking that it's a mistake to just get rid-off of Delilah, instead of trying to simphon her power, is a similar level of hubris to whatever Cerberus Assembly mages have going on xD
I don't know if it was a mistake. I got a feeling that Delilah is gonna be out of that seal during the final moments of Campaign 3. As to how, that's hard to say, but it's possible since we know Raishan did that to let Thordak out back in C1, although the one Delilah is from Aeor. But who knows what Matt is cooking up in the shadows.
Delilah is in the soul anchor, so could the vest absorb it? Would that release her or be able give Lauren that power?
@@michaelgibson3479 I get the feeling they can’t remove the soul anchor from laudna now if they did Delilah might get out
I’m not sure how absorbing Delilah would go but it might just give the same effects they soul anchor does now
"I would rather us both die now"
If there is one thing you don't have to worry about with Delilah it's quite literally this.
@@user-jn4sw3iw4h I disagree she’s claimed a few times she’d rather them both die than allow others to use her power or laudna
@@ZodiacBandit she did indeed *"claim"* that.
But what would she have to gain from admitting, removing her entirely, wouldn't kill laudna. (Tell them that last saving-throw (that kept her on the other side of the strings in terms of power (but not knowledge) but still alive to bargain/gaslight) was not for Laudna life, merely for 3 levels in warlock)
What would she have to gain from conseding the staring-contests (generally) with Imogen. (About what they would do to contain her)
The purpose of 'the nuclear option' is not to use it, but to threathen using it.
The core idea of 'mutually assured destruction'
The main reason they took the risk this time, was because Laudna was pushed to the point she considered 'mutually assured destruction' a step up from the current situation.
The nox-engine soul-anchor was secondary.
Would Delilah kill Laudna out of spite, if her own demise is a given? Yes, absolutely.
Would Delilah kill Laudna out of spite, if her plan M, "here's the deal, attach this amulet to that titan-cityblock and crack it. If you do so, I'll not only fight by your side as the Titan, but if we both make it through, I'll tell you [that big secret, you've been looking for]" would take too long and rather die? Nope, she most definitely would not.
@@user-jn4sw3iw4h I think you give Delilah to much credit she’s shown in the past a willingness to throw her life away in anger she’d absolutely kill Laudna at this point to spite her
@@ZodiacBandit Which moment are you referring to?
Moments of lost control, when either the god she was creating or "The man she broke the world for" were on the line....
Sure.
Withholding a powerup that could have prevented a TPK, now that she's bound to an object inside Laudna instead of Laudna herself. Likely. (something which indeed likely would not happen, back when Laudna herself was the bottle)
Planning to make sure Laudna (and only Laudna) falls, making sure the new object that is her new 'bottle' falls into the hands of those who would want her dead, rather than (eventually) in the hands of someone who doesn't know.
Not something I would expect from someone who effectively succeeded to create a 'living' phylactery without becoming a lich.
I agree that losing it and....
would fit "There is only really one reason for power: to protect those you love. And if that fails, vengeance is a pretty decent second goal."
I'm just not nearly as sold on the assumption, she considered she has irreversibly failed.
(Nor that Laudna is the greatest vengeance target in (eventual) reach)
I think you misunderstood, she has full access to Delilah’s powers without asking her. She can just take it. She’s in control now. Delilah only has as much access as Laudna allows. (No more spring)
@@shadowpsykie I got that and he said she can take it my only thing about is it’s Likely gonna be less then what she could’ve gotten the form Delilah used verse what she might get now is gonna be night and day and a potentially missed opportunity for them to use Delilah in a different way
@@ZodiacBandit I disagree. Matt said she had full access to her power. Not like “a portion to her power at a time” she no longer needs to ask for power. She can just take it at her will without her influence.
@@ZodiacBandit Why do you assume Laudna would have access to less of Delilah's power?
@@theshadowfax239 1 she’ll no longer be feeding Delilah power and she wasn’t at full strength to begin with so that option is no longer there 2 and this one is more so speculating but I feel like it makes more sense that with the nature of how the arrangement is Delilah will do whatever possible if anything possible to hold power back now this video was before later episodes came out showing more clearly what shape Delilah is in (chained up in a dark void) so things in my mind has changed but I don’t think this form of power is still within reach and Laudna does need to find another power up elsewhere
Great video as always
Glad you enjoyed it 🙏🏻
Orym seems to be growing vines when accessing certain abilities
@@shadowpsykie I don’t know if that’s a transformation more just how his magic manifests I think Orym doesn’t need a transformation he got a boost from nana morri he might need another one but he’s already a menace
Orym had a power up in the sword sword they took from otohan which Laudna didn’t let happen😑
@@treyrobertson7187 very true maybe she will now
This is clearly a war gamers perspective, not a narrative gamer.
@@Ecko110 I said at the beginning this happened perfectly when it needed to narratively BUT
Wonder what happens when they walk into an anti magic field
“Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity…” I think it can be argued that an Aeorian soul anchor counts as an artifact. 🤷♂️
@@hansonrowe234 I doubt it something like the soul anchor is pretty serious shit
I disagree, Delilah will not help the group... Delilah will save herself and Luadna that it. leaving the rest behind ... thinking Delilah will do something heroic will not happen.. Luadna having control is a good thing Luadna having her own thoughts is a good thing.
@@raymondf3670 she definitely wouldn’t be heroic in any scenario but I can see a fight where she gives more power to laudna to save herself and by proxy save the party
As a DM I see why Mat did this
@@jakehill6418 absolutely it’s just one issue to get out of the way before more fights at the table break out but I mean power is power
I argue it was too late. The whole character concept of Laudna is brilliant. And Delilah has been a cool antagonist for her. But she's overstayed her welcome. Having her as an antagonist going into the final arc where they take on Ludinus directly clutters things up. Ideally everyone has their shit together going into, or not long after the start of the final arc. Look at all the major character arcs for both VM and M9. Going into the Aeor and Vecna arcs, everyone has more or less dealt with their demons, except Caleb. Even Fjord had dealt with his by casting off Ukatoah and killing Avantica. The only thing left is to actually kill (or banish) Ukatoah, but that doesn't impact his character. He's free of Ukatoah's control long before that. Caleb is the only one who hasn't faced his past trauma going into Aeor. He only faces it in the epilogue, where he declines the power to travel through time. But that's the final step in a long journey that he's taken long before that. So all the character growth is done before going into the final arc so they can focus on the job at hand.
And they had the perfect out with Laudna's death, and the fight with Delilah. What I wish had happened was Matt starting episode 38 with Marisha alone at the table. Have her go 1:1 with Delilah, and if she wins, she takes Delilah's power for herself and brings herself back to undeath. It would have been great character growth, provided a fitting end to Delilah, given her a power boost, and provided an explanation why she came back as a hollow one rather than human as one would expect with resurrection. We would have lost the tension of Delilah having more influence over her after Bor'dor, but then again, we could have had an interesting arc with her going darker on her own volition, rather than influenced by Delilah.
As for power now that Delilah is bound, there are other options for gathering power. And she's not the only one who needs a boost.
I agree getting rid of Delilah for story reasons is good it would’ve absolutely cluttered up the ending and this way that thread isn’t left open at the end like I feared it may have been
In terms of power-ups I do think that Laudna will receive a Delilah power-up with her being trapped and Laudna being able to take her power. They did say that the power Laudna draws from to use warlock powers was accessible for her to use, I don't think it would be weeker than if Delilah was free - in fact it might be stronger as it has no chance of Delilah taking over if used.
Also if they hit level 20 and Laudna has 17 levels in sorcerer than she could use the Craven Edge ability. It's a 9th level spell called [Blade of Disaster] and it is even more powerful than Matt actually used as he miscalculated which dice are doubled on a crit.
I would like to see power-ups for the others (Orymn, Braius, Chentney) - I do think that Orymn and Braius might receive power from the gods and Chentney might get a smaller version of the Gorgynei training.
My complaint with Delilah in C3 was the pacing, as it kept popping up at the wrong parts and derailed from important parts. Like many other elements of C3 have been rushed so we can return to the main story (like Graz'tchar and the lack of character driven story replaced with narrative driven story).
Why was the major reveal of Sownfall was interrupted with Delilah? So far no one has really had anytime to comment on it apart from the Downfall players. In terms of plot pacing Delilah was a huge miss.
@@karlstoker04 laudna using craven would be insane im very hopeful she gets a new powerup
This is similar to Nott the Goblin losing the curse and becoming a plain ordinary house mum halfling. Sam realized his story was over and retired Veth at the best possible moment. I think Marisha will feel a secondary character for the end of the campaign.
Idk if a second character will come in the rest of laudna’s story is with Imogen and being her rock for the difficult times ahead I see your point and it’s possible but I’m not so sure
Yaaaaaa I didn’t love it
I still enjoyed this I just think they could’ve held off what was it you didn’t love?
What are you talking about? This was a massive 'power-up' for Laudna because now she has 100% control of her body and her mind. We have ONLY seen Delilah attack the group, you think she is going to help them if she had control?
@@shnordo she would help laudna if they are in a fight and near death and by proxy that would help the party the issue is now Delilah will do anything to get back at laudna we know beings can break free from the soul anchor it’s not impossible to break out from it at least and I wasn’t suggesting Delilah having full control more so giving power to laudna in a bad situation laudna having full control is nice but the raw power Delilah had in that form was crazy hopefully laudna gets a new powerup because yes this is a “power up” to have control she’s still a bit behind the curve compared to the others
@@ZodiacBandit How did Delilah help Laudna when she was struck down by Otohan? The only help she has given the group is being the patron to Laudna's powers. in every single instance where we have seen Delilah, she has been actively working against BH for her own personal means. I don't know about you but I would rather have Laudna in my party now that Delilah is locked away knowing that she cannot personally attack the group, regardless of the power that Delilah could offer them. I repeat, Delilah while in control of Laudna has done nothing but hurt and attack the party. It's like you are saying it's better to stay in an abusive relationship because somewhere down the line they could help you, but they have shown no signs they would ever do that. I am baffled that people are saying this was a bad move. Delilah will never help anyone but herself. If it came down to letting her take control to prevent a TPK then that is a LOSS in my book, because she is one of the most evil characters that Matt has ever created. The ends do not justify the means, if those means are to let an abuser take control of their victim.
@@shnordo she wasn’t as strong back then she only got strong enough after absorbing magic items that’s why she didn’t help against otohan remember the bells fought her back in the early part of the campaign and she’s much stronger now
I’m just saying they could’ve used that power up a few more times they know they can deal with laudna and Delilah they should use her powers
And I think Delilah would do anything to stay alive even if that means saving laudna and by proxy saving the BH
Ps don’t stay in abusive relationships I’m purely talking in game mechanics
@@ZodiacBandit I love that us passionate nerds can discuss these topics. We can agree to disagree on this topic. Personally, I think BH are way better off now that Delilah is locked away. Looking forward to your next vid. Cheers!