In Georgia the used car dealer association, at the school we're required to take every other year to renew our license, always tells us not to use such fees as we risk FTC involvement, but most dealers do anyway. I seldom see any car ads that are technically legal underl FTC rules
I remember once I went with my dad to buy a car. The salesman quoted a price over the phone and told my dad that they had the car. Once we got there, the salesman said they didn't have the car. My dad called 15 minutes before. The salesman said it was being sold while they were talking, but he would show my dad something else. My dad told him, "No, I don't do business with liars. Have a nice day." I laughed all the way home. Lol
@@paulcollyer801 Got a cold call once from a stock broker who just starts his spiel at 800 words a minute without letting me talk and he gets to the end and says "so, can I put you down for 5,000 shares at $50/share?" LOL. I say "no, can't afford anything close". He adds another paragraph of why I should buy and says "ok, lemme pencil you in for 2000 shares". "no". He keeps going, and going, and going, and going. And I've said like 10 words other than "no" the whole time. But I'm sitting with a headset on doing real work on the computer, so I'm fine--not taking any of my time, really. After 30 minutes of this he gets angry. I can hear him throw down the headset and tell someone "this guy..." and it trails off. Then the headset is picked up and it's a totally new voice. But he just carries on from the script like nothing has happened. I keep saying "no" about 5 more times and now this new dude starts SCREAMING at me. "DO YOU GET YOUR ROCKS OFF BY STRINGING ALONG BROKERS ON THE PHONE? WHAT"S YOUR DEAL?" At that point I tell him I did no stringing whatsoever. I kept saying no, no, no. Not once did I give any indication of any interest. The only thing I didn't do is hang up on 'em. And oh-by-the-way, you don't think I could tell I got passed off between two of you? At that point he curses at me and hangs up. But I wouldn't have done that if it had taken ANY of my time--I woulda just hung up. And I imagine dad and son (particularly son) wanted to be on their way rather than torture a salesman.
Yeah, I was "required" to buy the window etching. They had worn me down over the several hours that I finally just gritted my teeth and said "fine!" What the dealership DIDN'T realize is whenever folks would oooh & aaaah over my car and asked where I got it, I'd recommend another dealership, stating the place where I got it was a bunch of shysters who tack on fake fees in the end. Hope they like their $500 advertising fee.
You want to do the "Stand up and walk" response. I once bought a car in an advertisement in the newspaper with a specific price with specific specifications. The salesmen show me the car. There were a few add-ons such as hand stripping, nitrogen-filled tires... I told the salesman I don't want to pay for any of the addons because they are not in the advertisement. He insisted I "have" to. I stood up and told him to sell me the car exactly as advertised or I am walking. He talked to the manager and sold me the car. I have other occasions that I used the "stand-up and walk" to not pay for "red light alert", Scotch Guard Protection...
@@gooddealonly the last time I was in the dealer the salesman and his direct manager were just letting us sit there for an extended period of time after a long negotiation. I said I think they are waiting for us to leave as we had not agreed on the transaction as it was. We stand up to walk out, get two steps, and the manager's boss approached us and worked out the deal. Overall miserable experience and nearly as bad as time share pitches which are a horrible experience. They both keep you there for hours on end, use high pressure sales tactics, starve you, and the sales person you are dealing with has no real authority to negotiate.
Things to do in retirement. When a dealer pulls that “sold it” or “added fees” line, take as much time as you can now to tie up the salesman and their finance folks , adding things and discussing things , just don’t sign anything , and at the end of the day declare you didn’t actually have authority to purchase a vehicle for your family and get up and walk out.
Work mate of mine did something like that. Got tired of all the BS so he started saying yes to add-ons and even added more options. Salesrep said when do you want the car? He said in 5 or 6 years from now and walked out.
That sounds like fun! I'm retired, and at 58 I look much younger, at least when shaved, so the salesmen wouldn't guess that part. I wouldn't start out with that as the goal, though; I'd only do it when legitimately looking for a new vehicle. That's not likely to be for a while...hope I remember this idea. All three vehicles we have now, the salesmen didn't pull any crap on us, just sold us the vehicle promised at the price promised, adding on only tax and title fees. But my wife's last car (since sold), the VW dealer was wasting a lot of our time, lying to us, etc. I kind of wish we'd just decided at some point that our evening was wasted anyway, done what we could to string them along, then walked out.
The medical industry is worse. I had a colonoscopy that was "covered" under my insurance but ended up with a $2,777 fill for items used that weren't covered or disclosed in advance.
I agree with you, I was lucky when I had cancer I was in the Army. If I was a civilian, I still would be paying for it 30 years later. I can understand your Pain but will never have to deal with it I wish you a Long happy life.
@@gump1005 Had the same experience with an injection. Asked the billing department to resubmit wit a different code, they did, and that bill went away.
When I recently bought a new car, I emailed several dealerships within 100 miles of my home asking for an "out the door price" including tax, tag and title. Only one dealership did (Curtesy Nissan in Tampa) and I went there and upgraded to a better model and got the car for what was quoted in the email with the added upgrade cost. Drove to Tampa and left in my new car with 0% interest.
I’ve been doing that with Las Vegas Ford dealerships. I contacted internet sales to clarify mandatory fees. Some dealers add nonsense fees for products and services I don’t want, but at least they told me up front so I don’t waste their time or my time. Hopefully the dealership I’m working with now, operates with integrity.
I miss Saturn dealerships. I bought two at the same dealership, and the experience was the same both times. I walked around the lot, found a car I was interested in based on the model, color, features, and the price posted on the vehicle. Only then did I wave to the squad of salespeople waiting by the building, and the on-deck person walked over, asked if this was the car I was interested in, went and got the keys, let me take a short test drive, and the only "selling" was for small things like a radio upgrade to a CD player (no thanks) and an optional extension of powertrain warranty (I should have said yes on one car), then it was just confirming financing. From arrival to leaving with a new car was an hour, give or take. And that included my walking around looking for the car.
My technique has not changed in 40 years. When the sales guy takes me in his office I ask for a piece of paper. I write down on it the number I will pay with "out the door" after it and my phone number. I then say call me when you will sell it for that price and not a penny more. I had one try to tack on an extra $75 on a $20K car and I walked out. I got the reputation pretty quickly that if you wanted to sell me anything you had better follow my rules. Last time they said they couldn't possibly sell it to me for that price. I walked out and they called me the next day with a compromise pice. I said no what I put on the paper was my firm price. Two weeks later they called and caved in and sold me the car for the out the door price. I always figure I don't need a car but they need to sell one so in reality I have all the power in this deal.
This is a great idea but only works if you have information on what the cars cost them, what their incentive is for meeting volumes, and add a reasonable amount they will be likely to take for profit. These are all easy to get but most people don't do the work to research it and set an artificially low price no one can meet. Then when they come back with a higher price you don't know if it is reasonable counter offer or they are being greedy.
@@lightningdemolition1964 There are websites where you can find the dealer invoice and that is the cost I use with an extra $500 for license and such. Dealers may pay invoice but when the car sells they get more dealer incentives from the manufacturer. On a $20K car that can be $2000 so I figure they are still doing okay. I had one dealer once say "we need to make something on it" and my reply was don't sell me the car then. Guess what? He sold me the car.
A few years ago in mid July, my neighbor asked me to help him buy a new Honda Accord. I suggested he talk to another neighbor who was the sales manager at a Honda dealer about a 1/2 hour away, but he wanted to try the nearest Honda dealership where he always had his car serviced. So we went their first. Every car- from the cheapest Fit to the fanciest Accord and Pilot, had at least $7,000 in "dealer installed accessories" including fancy rims, nitrogen in the tires, tinted windows, door edge guards, Lo Jack, etc. When the we told the salesman we wanted a car without any of the dealer add ons, he offered a "special" price of only $1,500 over MSRP. When we wouldn't budge, the salesman told us we would have to order a car, it would takes week to get and it would cost more money because it didn't have add ons. My neighbor finally had enough and we walked out and drove to the dealership where our other neighbor worked. Our neighbor the manager assigned us a salesman, we told him what we were looking for and he showed us a dozen Accords that were all the next model year and weren't even advertised as on the market. We picked one out, the salesman called our neighbor, who told him give us the employee price off the invoice (we saw the invoice), take another $500.00 off in dealer incentive cash, put on door edge guards at no charge and write up the sale. My neighbor bought the car on the spot, no fuss. When it was time to replace my neighbor's wife car, he got the same sort of pricing and clean deal for her new car. Every friend I have who is considering a Honda goes with me to see my neighbor and is well treated. My neighbor makes money on every sale, just not as much money as he could if he played games. He is in the car business for the long haul and likes repeat customers. Repeat sales are easier each time and they are less stressful for him, his sales staf and all the people at the dealership.
You are smart. Do you have any idea what you can do with all the money you saved. You can be rich if you take the average car payment and put that into investments every month. Of course you have an idea what you saved I'm just saying for others to read and figure this out. Start out at age 18 and buy older used cars then put that car payment money into a good mutual fund every month. By the time you are in your mid 30"s you will have 300 to 500k. Carve out 40k and go pay cash for a new car if you really want one. But by then you will realize you don't really need a "NEW" car and the way to go is to find a good deal on an off lease car for so much less then new "at that point in life". Then enjoy being rich because your smart. Your probably the only guy on your street with a paid off house also because you are smart enough do do that.
If you choose to walk out on a deal (more people should), be prepared to defend yourself. A salesman in Hillsboro, OR assaulted me when I chose to walk away. Were it not for the armored motorcycle jacket I was wearing, I would have been badly injured. He got jail and the dealer got a bill for replacement of my damaged ARIA helmet.
Last three car dealerships I bought vehicles at, I walked in found the vehicle I wanted, told the salesman what I would pay and that he had exactly one hour to complete the deal or I would walk out, they then asked for my keys to the trade in I said no, and that the clock was ticking, the owner and managers came over to give excuses as to why it takes so long and why they needed my keys. Long story short, they never got my keys till the deal was done, and I walked out at exactly one hour. Two days later I got the very vehicle I wanted at a cheaper price and within an hour because my time is very expensive when you waste it. Oh, and those pesky license, taxes destination fees, stocking fees, stripes and other thing that were added came off the price or were reduced severely.
I think the first car I ever bought, in college (around 2003), will always be the best experience I've ever had. Dealerships had just started ramping up their websites. I found a 2 year old Grand Cherokee with an Internet Special. I printed it out and went to the dealership almost immediately. It was the middle of the week so I was talking to two salesmen and they were both actually pretty nice. One of them brought the car around and the other one went to verify the price because he looked genuinely shocked when he saw the price. He came back and neither of them could believe the dealership was going to sell the car for that price. It was about $2k lower than the sticker price. They told me that if I want a Grand Cherokee, I'm probably not going to find a better deal than this. I had been looking everywhere and this was the cheapest one in the city with every single option possible. There was no haggling, no pressure, no stupid fees or dealer options. Sadly, I was hit 2 days later and it was totaled. I managed to get much more than what I paid for it and was able to get a better model.
Here is a trick that works for me. First, you have to be in the mind to walk out without buying. When I look at buying a car I research the hell out of it before ever stepping on the dealer's lot. If I am satisfied when we sit down to talk "deal" I set an alarm on my phone. I tell the salesman if there is no deal in place when the alarm sounds I walk out. I have had salesmen running behind me begging me to come back in the showroom.
Makes me feel lucky for having such an honest dealer near me. When I bought my current car the only fees I had to pay were the ones mandated by the state and feds and the only other fee was optional and I could have refused it and the service it was for. Hearing about the experience that most other people have at dealers almost scares me.
Over here (Australia), the advertised price needs to be the "on road" cost which includes all fees, taxes, registration, etc. It can only go down from there, not up.
I had the experience at the local Anderson Chrysler dealer, web price is listed as one thing, about $2000 in add on fees and products, which they refused to remove. I eventually walked out after a week or so of back and forth on several similar cars and bought elsewhere. FYI the web price never changed and I pointed out that their web page had been updated and did not reflect these fees, nor did any of the other cars I looked at have the fees they were asking for on them. "Oh that's another department." They still email me a year later and offer deals. I have told them that they blew it and I bought elsewhere.
@@pullyoursocksup6302 Thanks, but I kind of enjoy reminding them every few months that when they blew off my business, I am now blowing them off. Plus I let them know I tell my friends and family how they treated me. Small town, word gets around. Not sure if I will ever buy from them, but I like the Chrysler product line so I may go 60 miles to the dealer that did me right on my previous Chrysler purchase.
@@danieldudzik6470 I feel bad you like chrysler but Im sorry you have that, my gmas jeep is from a small town dealer who is a JOKE. They wouldnt last a second if "JeepCares" (chrysler and FCA corporate that is) knew how poorly they handle their brand
@@CT_Taylor I was a hard core Chevy guy and have owned at least 5 Chevys' mostly Trucks. I still own two Chevy trucks, but one needs a new motor, the other is a 14 foot box truck getting 6 MPG on a good day and broken AC. Chryslers started when my Mom gave me a 96 Intrepid, and I eventually traded it in on a 2001 Intrepid. That got totaled by an uninsured Drive and I bout a 2009 Chrysler 300 and eventually traded that in on a new Chrysler 200. All were great cars. I traded the 200 in on the Ford Edge, and liked it but now wish I had my 200 back.
I lived in Pontiac and the local newspaper had a dealership ad that listed a vehicle at a low price. You get there and that vehicle was already sold, but we can sell you this one for $1,000 more. The old Bait and switch! That was back in the 80’s!
I know of one Nissan dealer in the Phoenix area that will post a price, and when you go there the say they don't know what I talking about even though I called beforehand and they confirmed the price. Suddenly the price goes up many thousands of dollars. They did it twice. That was not the price with the fees, but the base price. Then you have the doc fees which varies wildly. If you say you are going to pay with cash they then raise the price of the car.
The Bait & Switch tactic reminds me of the beginning of "National Lampoon's Vacation" when Clark Griswold was B&S'd by Eugene Levy's character. The dealer even squashed Clark's old car
The biggest thing is that when you go into a dealership you need to be willing to walk away. Do your research and know what you are good with paying but if they are tacking fees and charging you for things just walk out (even if you have been there a couple hours). I am fortunate living in a city with a lot of dealers so easy to go down the street; however they count on you spent hours there and you are not going to want to have wasted that time and will not do it. Funny thing is most times I have walked out because of stupid things I end up buying the car from that dealer a couple days later, they call you back take off the stupid things and maybe toss in some small added things to get you to actually buy the car. This was before all the chaos, but they want to move the unit and if you walk it flips the power dynamic in negotiations completely.
Many moons ago, buying my first full size new truck I went to two dealers (same brand), gave them the out the door price I was willing to pay. Asked them how close they could come to it and let me know, both knew I was looking at identical trucks (different color) at another dealer. The first one was $3k over my “willing to pay” price, the other was $25 over (some fee I forgot to include). When I told the first dealer the second was much better, he said he could cut the price another $1k. I asked him why he lied about the first quote, he was silent. I told him I don’t deal with liars and hung up. That’s how I’ve bought every new car since, research, make an offer and whoever gets closest, gets the sale.
I mean,... The one that was25 over, did you literally like it more? Its possible options or colors or etc maybe would shake out such a way. but if you mean identical as IDEN-TI-CAL then bravo thats fair enoguh
@@CT_Taylor yeah, the only difference was the color. All options were the same and both colors were within my liking. About the only two colors I won’t buy are red or yellow, all other normal colors are good. And pink isn’t normal or it’d go in there with red and yellow.
@@ridingwithairbubble1694 For many many years, there had never been a recorded case of a PINK car being STOLEN or CARJACKED (I guess with the young street punks, it doesn't garner as much "street-cred" to admit you've been out stealing Pink cars to drive around in. Then, some time ago, they stopped saying that "never has a pink car, been stolen or carjacked" so I guess someone got one sometime. However Pink is quite likely still the safest from theft/carjacking colour of all. However almost zero cars are available with factory pink paint jobs, so usually pink is only available as a custom aftermarket job, more likely on al old classic vehicle. eg someone making up an "Elvis' mum's, Pink Cadillac" .
I have dealt with this as most people have, but what really freaked me out is when I bought my last car and they were up front about everything and honest. Weirdest car buying experience of my life. I was always on the lookout for the "gotcha!" It NEVER came... Still waiting for it 3 years later! Seriously, what did I miss? I paid about $1800 more than I absolutely had to, but the lack of BS was worth it! AND THEY told me I did NOT have to get that stuff. I just wanted it!
@@DJdoppIer My gut tells me they got in trouble for something and were over compensating, but that is my pessimist side. I genuinely don't know how I got out without getting ripped off. It was my second new car and my first one (different dealership) they just wanted gone, so I got a good deal. I would not recommend that place now though. I have been told they changed managers and are just like everywhere else now.
I sold cars for a while. The best advice I can give is to always look like you are ready to leave. Don’t set anything down, keep your keys in your hand, purse on your shoulder, say you haven’t had lunch yet if the salesman leaves you alone to check with his manager wander off & make him ind you. Manufacturers value the buyer surveys they send out quite a lot & reward dealers for good results. You can actually leverage that.
This is so true. Another good tactic is get the fair market value of the car you are looking to buy in your area and negotiate from there. Fun fact some cars will go for more in a certain area because of popularity or climate or whatever outside force. Also since they are pressuring you for a sale use this tactic. "What is the out the door price right now?" and make sure you repeat this until they get it. Most salesman I notice will give the price they hope to sell to you force then you work down from there. I normally will take that and the fair market value and cut straight in the middle like say if he was 30k and the market value was 25k I'd offer 27,500 out the door right now with all fees waived. I push on that if they don't budge I leave. I know sales people work off commissions and volume and the deal needs to make money so I do try to meet half way with the dealership. And a lot sales will notice that normally take my offer. Only ever had one slimy sales person push some fees. I just left and told him you lied to me so you just lost a deal. He actually called the next day begging me to come back and I told him no being honest and upfront is important in my book and I don't deal with slimeballs like you.
A couple more things. You have probably heard that the best time to buy is at the end of the month. It is absolutely true, especially if the month ends mid week. I would wager that months with fewer days are better if you can stand to wait until the leap year. When someone finances through the dealer the salesperson gets a taste even if you go through a separate finance person. A bag of cash is better if you are buying from Craigslist but you can get a better price if they think you are going to finance there & they can claw back a few hundred $.
@@HankScorpio64 Blowhards come on the lot all day & say “what’s the best price on this truck if I buy it now?” without driving it or smelling the interior. The salesman knows that 90% of them aren’t going to buy anyway so they will throw out a lowball price or invite them inside for some mutual torture. I made an offer on my last purchase & stipulated that it includes all fees & such. I was shocked to see that there was a $700 document fee & another $500 for prep or something. The dealers basically steal that money from the sales price & the salesman doesn’t get commission on it. When I sold cars the doc fees went from $18 to $75 there we thought it was the end of the world.
Dealers use these tactics all the time. They want to sell you the car they want to sell. I have learned if they are super pushy about certain add-ons I look at the paperwork and only buy things that are fully refundable. They hate it when I show up a week later wanting to cancel everything, now they have no leverage and I make sure I have copies of everything.
I hope something is done. I'd rather pay more if everyone paid the same. I always hated leaving a dealership knowing someone got a better deal than me for the same car.
All you have to do is keep saying no until you hare happy with the price. I'm like you, I do research on what the car should cost if it is the best deal ever. Then I offer a few thousand less and make them work like hell to get the price back up to what I actually want to pay. If they don't comply I simply stand up, say this car cost too much and walk towards the door. Don't worry if you do that they will stop you and offer the car for less but not as cheap as you like. Stand up again and walk towards the door. In the end you will get the car for what you are willing to pay or maybe a small amount more but you will not have to pay a large amount more and if they want you to and will not agree then try that some place else. The power lies with you. The dealership and sales guy and finance manager and even the owner all have time invested in the deal so mentally they can not allow you to walk, their ego will not allow it. Their egos and your ability to manipulate them via there ego is your power over them. But not unless you recognize this and use it against them. Works every time. if they have 4 hours or more into the deal and negotiating with you then "NO MATTER WHAT" their ego will not allow then to let you walk away without selling you a car.
Destination is a junk fee. It should be included in MSRP, and is often not part of the online dealer advertised price. OEMs use this to mislead consumers as to the true cost of the vehicle.
@@natehydrv1661 That's the only way it would make any sense. Someone that lives next to the plant pays the same as someone who lives 2,000 miles away. Since it's the same across the board it's part of the damn MSRP!
Back on the sixties when my dad brought a new car he would drive to the factory on Michigan to save on transport fees, and because he could get a great deal from a local Detroit dealer who only had to take an order and never have to deal with the customer again. Then they started unified transport costs and it was the same price across the country. Coming from California we got the best part of that deal.
I once bought paint protection which turned out to be worthless. The next time I bought a car, from a different dealer they started pushing paint protection. I said no. A few minutes later they again tried to convince me to buy it. I said no again, at which I told them I would not say it a third time. When they brought it up the third time, they were speechless when I reached across the desk, picked-up the contract, tore it in half and walked out.
I would like to inform everyone, the rule itself is the last 13 pages of the linked document, most of which is double spaced with each line being 10-20 words. The FIRST 113 pages is descriptions about why they think the law is necessary, their descriptions of what the rules require/mean, and tables of 'expected' costs/returns.
I bait and switch. Thank you! The place I worked for would advertise one of our products at an insanely low price and it was the job of us salespeople to up-sell them. Some people complained that it was “bait and switch”. Particularly if the advertised item was out of stock and required a 4 to 6 week wait.
I just bought a Honda in Southern California and the process was just terrible. I'm still recovering. Every single dealer in So Cal (and I called them ALL) did not disclose the total costs on the phone or in advertising. The ad would show something like MSRP only with no markup. Then when I drive miles to the dealership they would say 1) Oh, that doesn't include out $9000 markup, 2) you are lucky we don't have a markup, but you have to buy $9000 worth of added "upgrades" that I didn't want and we marked up themselves or 3) Well I don't actually have the car, but I'll get one soon. It was a terrible experience, but since everyone did it, there was no way out. I think for sure that there should be a law to force dealers to disclose ALL costs and Fees and add-ons or markups in their advertising. At the very least...I would know what I'm in for and could properly judge the competition. In some cases even on the phone they would either lie about the markup or just say they won't tell me till i'm standing in the showroom. Horrible. I hate car dealers...I hate all of them. Bottom of the barrel sales people.
I recall, around 20 years ago, a local Subaru dealer was trying very hard to jack up the price on the new Impreza WRX that was just released in the USA. They were adding aftermarket sunroofs. I was blown away that a dealership would send cars to get a hole cut in the roof in order to add a non-OEM sunroof and then charge an exorbitant fee for the privilege of having the vehicle mangled in that way.
Ha when i bought a nissan altima once from andy mohr nissan in indy, they tried to convince me i had to buy the window etching and had a separate fee on the final statwment. "Im buying the car for the price and options previously agreed upon. That isnt an option im asking for" "But its already done. It comes with the car" "Great so its included in the price" "Well no, we charge separately for it" "Then its not included in the car." "No, we already did it" "Then its included in the price of the car" About 5 rounds of that later he reached across the table, scratched out the option, modified the final price accordingly, signednit and i signed as well. Lol He knew if i went one more round of that i was getting up and walking out. And he was the finance guy. So thats the last step and where they put the highest pressure on you to just sign. He knew he was gonna lose that sale. He was already upset i had external financing at rates he simply couldnt beat. Whomever picks up the pen first loses, folks
When I bought a 2009 aveo, the dealers website stated, 5995 dollars. I get there, the sticker says, 6995. My friend, the salesman says dont worry, we'll fix it. When I get to the fiance guy, they ran my credit for 6995, I was like, no the price advertised is this. So they changed that. What should have really made me run though, the warranty changed from a limited warranty, to as is. Then they really pushed an extended warranty, and I got it. Unfortunately, the aveo of that era, has an issue with the gaskets, which then caused oil and coolant to mix. The warranty ran out, at 4 years, and the car was scrap at 5 years, because of this issue. So as the loan ended, so did my car. I am more careful now, when buying a vehicle.
Used car dealerships are making money on the bait and switch. I know someone who fell for the classic "We sold that car this morning, but we have something else for you." They had only been open 30 minutes. First time buyers never realize how long it takes to sell a car... MUCH longer than 30 min on the lot
I test drove a car immediately after it came off the carrier (I had been waiting for it to arrive knowing roughly when it was expected in that day), still with the plastic covers on everything, and that thing was on the lot WAY longer than 30 minutes while I jumped through all the hoops afterward to complete the deal...
I recently bought a Tesla. Simply logged on to their website, found the one I wanted (existing inventory), and clicked buy. A couple weeks later, I simply drive up to the delivery center, signed some papers and drive off. Best car buying experience ever. This annoys the heck out of the dealership model to the point that auto makers are lobbying each state to prevent this method of car buying - forcing a dealership model. They are also trying to prevent companies from providing over the air (OTA) updates - since that is another revenue source.
@@Ceece20 I think the point is, why do the ford dealer and subaru dealer "government fees" not match up. Likely they are both lying and it is less than either are charging.
In 2016 I called and made an offer and agreed on an out-the-lot price on a new car and that was exactly what the bottom line was on the contract. (Los Angeles)
My parents went to look at a car that was listed for a certain price online. When they got to the dealer, they were advised the car was $2k more than what was listed online. After they negotiated the price, and the dealer agreed, the car salesman came back with the sales contract showing the car price increase $11k due to their service fee of $7k on top of license and sales tax. My parents walked out.
I worked at a dealership, and they had what they called the "Whack Pack" - a series of fees that were charged to the customer that GUARANTEED that the dealership would make a profit on the car; irrespective of discounts or rebates.
Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is all on line and easy to search. States also have consumer protection rules that are online. In Wisconsin, it's Wisconsin Administrative Rules. It was under the Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection and Department of Motor Vehicles.
I once made a scene in a dealership because they promised me a specific vehicle, and after two special trips they told me they couldn't deliver on their promise. I made a point of using the phrase bait and switch, and that they didn't follow up on their promises. - and I made sure other customers could hear me.
Every car dealer thinks they are honest. It is the other guys who use predatory practices that give the industry a bad name. They don't think they abuse mandatory fees; they are just following standard industry practices. They don't use "bait and switch." They use "clever advertising."
I checked multiple car dealer sites which showed available cars and the list price. I sent emails to them asking specifically if the vehicles shown were in fact on the lot and available to purchase. All emailed back wanting my phone number and did not answer the question as to whether the vehicles were available. I finally called one dealership and spoke to a salesman who finally admitted that none of the cars shown on their web site were available and actually admitted that they didn't even know if the vehicles have been manufactured or even when later this year they may arrive.
While Steve doesn't recommend purchasing rental cars, I've purchased 2 and both times the price quoted was the price paid. No haggling, and no extra fees (besides tag and tax). Although they did try to upsell me on every little add on, they weren't required.
Ex rentals can be an excellent buy, dependent on the original hire company. You have a car that will have been used in a variety of driving styles, which assuming not much “ragging” of the engine, means it’s run in better than if a 17yo boy racer or 85yo Miss Daisy type had driven it. If a reputable company it will have been maintained also. Picked up mine for a good price, at around 5,000 miles, now at 65,000 5yrs later. I keep her well maintained also
Its still bloody stupid that America doesn't include taxes in the price. For everything that is wrong with the GST at least the stores note the total price of the product and don't expect you to have to do the math yourself.
Yup this just happen to me on Saturday, June 25th. I went to Toyota to buy a Prius. The site said the price (MSRP) and show up to buy the car. I expected to pay that price plus tax, license, and doc fees. They come out with a printout of the car, but with new fees. The $28k car turned into $35k PLUS tax license and doc fees. They also low balled me on my 2016 Rav4 Limited that had only 24,600 miles. I walked out. Considering I bought so many cars from them including a new Sienna Platinum last August from the same guy, I was mad. All my cars are serviced there. They are screwing over their loyal customers. Today, I sold my Rav4 to CarMax. The question now is who is going to sell me a new car for cash. Obviously, not Toyota. They can keep their "market adjustment " BS add-on. They lost long term income from loyal customers.
Even if it is easier to understand online, I like the old school version (which is like me) of going and looking it up in a reference book for example. I think 🤔 it may help muscle memory. Thank you 🤔❤️🇺🇸
I live in Japan. Here dealers are required to advertise 2 prices. One is the car’s price and the other is the drive away price. The drive away price includes all taxes and fees. You can walk in and pay that price and drive away in thar car. Well, you can’t really drive away that day as new tags have to be obtained at each ownership transfer and parking certificates have to be obtained, but you get the idea. There are cases where you may pay more and that would be if you live in another prefecture (think state) to where the car is being sold, but that’s just adjusting for different taxes and tag fees etc. But if you live in the same prefecture then you will only pay the advertised price. Dealers still will try and up sell you services of course, but at least you know what the minimum price is.
The thing that I hate the most is the "documentation fee." What the hell, I have to pay $800 damn dollars for your paper-pushers to do their damn jobs?! And OF COURSE there's a state law (bought and paid for with dealership association lobbying money) that says they can't change that fee from customer to customer - it is literally non-negotiable BY LAW! Absolutely RIDICULOUS! The FTC isn't cracking down on THAT law, I guaran-damn-tee it.
This is the main reason I have never bought a vehicle from a dealership. I went to a couple dealerships a few times to look at potentially buying and was immediately met with a fast talking salesman and I walked away on the spot.
The last time I bought a car, I wrote a check for the amount I wanted to pay. I set the check down and said that I didn't care how they got to that number, that was the amount I was going to pay. After a short amount of time filled with protests, I drove the car away.
I don’t think I’ll ever buy a car again unless there is a hard price that I can purchase online, and have the comfort to “sleep on it” without dealing with a team of people trained to squeeze every penny out of me within a high pressure environment.
I bought my last car at Mercedes Benz of Marin. They were wonderful. Did all negotiating on line in advance. Told them I needed a day to think about it, "No problem". Since they were a state away I had to arrange to fly over to buy the car, they actually held it a week no questions asked.
I always ask for the "Out The Door" price. In fact I usually sit down with the salesman and tell him or her, "I will pay this amount for the car, including TTL, absolute bottom dollar". I have left many showrooms, only to be stopped in the parking lot by a capitulating salesman or sales manager. One time we left the showroom, and the gate guard was instructed NOT to let us leave. The secret is that when you make your final offer, you must be genuinely prepared to go home without a deal.
back in the dark ages, a person I knew would write a check for what he was willing to pay, hand it to the salesman, and tell him to take it to the manager and come back with either the check or the keys.
We love you, Mr. Steve....but 🤭....this is the first time, as we watched and listened, your voice faded and was replaced with...."Bueller?.....Bueller?...." 😂 God bless you for sticking with it to the end! 😇🤭
I'm glad my local dealer decided to play games and I found a good dealer about an hours drive from me. I wanted to buy local. I wanted a new F150. All they had was the V8 and the small Ecoboost. I wanted a 3.5 Ecoboost. First she tells me how great the V8 sounds and how much trouble the 3.5 is (it's not. The only real issue they had was corrected in 2017) then she tells me the engine isn't available on the truck I want..... Then they keep pushing the V8 on me with monthly payments only to negotiate with. The other dealer took my call, asked if I would give him an hour or so to locate the truck I wanted, called back in 20 minutes with the price, tax, title, license, and said he would need to pull my credit to give me an accurate payment since he won't make assumptions and quote numbers that may or may not be true. I did the credit app on their site, he called me back with a payment to the penny. I asked him if I needed to make a deposit for him to go get the truck from another dealer and he said my word was good with them. Two days later I drove my new Truck home exactly for what I was told to the penny. I have since went back and bought my wife a used Dodge Journey with the same experience. There are good ones out there!
one of my customers just switched the insurance on his 2017 GMC Sierra to storage only. the engine has been out of it for 1 month and the dealership said the parts could take 1 year to come in.
Lucky to have a decent dealer to deal with. Did have a bad experience there once. Went in looking for a specific used car, the kid (he was probably 20) insisted on showing me a new car. Okay, I had been trying to decide between new and used, so I figured why not. The car he wanted to sell me (not the one I wanted) was parked in, so he left me with the keys and disappeared. Never came back. I finally got angry, walked back to the dealership, found another salesperson to hand the keys to and left. I probably went a little Karen, but I wrote a very polite email to the sales manager telling them what happened, and letting them know that unless they offfered me a good deal on the car I actually wanted, I was taking my business elsewhere. I got an apology from the sales manager and a discount on the car I actually wanted.
I was going to buy a brand new VW golf TDI many years ago. They told me that two charges were mandatory, rubber mats and another BS charge. I argued I'm not paying for that and I walked out. I was super surprised he didn't try to negotiate the charge/make it free.
I enjoy dealing with dealers! Been on the consumer side of deals for over 45 years, no connection to the industry at all! A high school friend got suckered into a deal, paid over $800 for junk. I made a trek to see him, walked into the dealer, in 30 min had a check for refund of the junk stuff.
While online car shopping for a Kia in Wesley Chapel, Florida, a local dealership had this fine print: “Price is plus tax, tag, title, registration, any dealer-installed accessories and dealer-provided benefits, and a pre-delivery service fee of $999, Private Tag Agency Fee of $189, and Electronic Registration Filing Fee of $199, which charges represent costs and profits to the dealer for items such as inspecting, cleaning, and adjusting vehicles and preparing documents related to the sale. New vehicle pricing excludes the $3992 [dealership] Advantage Program. Pre-owned vehicle pricing excludes the $2492 [dealership] Advantage Program.” Ignoring the other grossly inflated fees, if you try to purchase a vehicle online, they actually have a pre-checked box for the “Advantage Program” that’s greyed out so you can’t un-check it. I actually emailed them, and they said I had to pay it if I wanted the car. That “Advantage Program” is mandatory and consists of “PROTECTIVE COATINGS, SURFACE SANITATION (I think they mean sanitization), RAIN REPELLENT (windshield), HEADLIGHT PROTECTION, DOOR EDGE & CUP GUARDS, NITROGEN TIRE SERVICE, CUSTOMER MOBILE APP, and more. I only saw this scam on the local Kia dealer sites. If other dealers are running this scam, they don’t advertise it on their websites. Needless to say, I took my business elsewhere.
This is why I have a Saturn. I don't drive it anymore, but that wasn't due to a problem with the Saturn, I broke my neck and the Saturn is too low to the ground and lacks visibility I need. Saturn dealers were awesome. There was no hard sell. There was no upsell unless you asked for something additional. And you could get, not an estimate, but a hard quote over the phone. When you got to the dealer, the price on the contract was the one you were quoted. If you said you wanted a particular car, you got that car. No "we sold that car" BS. So what happened to Saturn? GM shut it down. I would have bought Saturns for the rest of my life. And smiled every time. My partner wanted a Honda CR-V. A particular model, with a particular shade of Honda paint. One dealer told her "we have just the car for you, come on down". They didn't have that car. They didn't have any cats with the color of paint. And the price wasn't even close to what we expected. And the salesman and his manager were the rudest car dealers I've ever seen. They were condescending, sexist, and demeaning. I wanted to rip their lips off. If it wasn't a lie, it was an insult. If it wasn't an insult, it was a stereotype. Finally, I stood up and said "No. We're leaving. Now." The idiots tried to get in my way to physically bar me from leaving. We left, after I threatened to leave -- after calling the cops to file charges for unlawful detention and a raft of bunko charges. We went to a different Honda dealer. They had the car. They had the paint. They didn't dick around with us. They sold us the car for a reasonable and honest price. We still have it. That dealer is still there, to giving us service on the car they sold us. The other dealer shut down, and was reopened as a different dealership, owned by someone else. Not because of us or our missed opportunity, but because we weren't the first or only customers they tried to shaft, after testing us like ignorant females who knew nothing about cars.
I find this interesting, in Australia we have "Drive away" pricing OR price plus on road costs, these are both regulated and consumers know what they generally expect to pay to drive the vehicle off the lot unless they want to add options from the dealer like window tint, paint protection etc etc. I find it frustrating as a consumer when traveling to the US even for small purchases, where you have a price listed, but then there are taxes, tips (We don't really do tipping down under, wait staff are paid reasonably well) etc and often the price is >30% more than what the price listed on the menu is... It's nice knowing that if you see a price of say $20 it will be that, and not $25 or $30, or in the case of a car multiply that by 1000!
I just had a friend take her car back to a dealership for a serious problem. They had her sign for a lender car that she thought was free. Turns out she was signing a lease for the car, and they never told her. Talk about a scam.
Is it limited to only cars? What about motorbikes, e-bikes, farm equipment, and other vehicles? Buying any vehicle entails being subjected to these tricks and lies. 😔
My Daughter just bought a new 2023 Kia Sportage. Dealership told her she had to buy the floor mats. Price $236.00 She told them she did not want them. They said it's part of the car and they could not take them out or off the price. So she calls me asking advice. I told her to have them make up the contract and all the paperwork ready & I was headed that way. When I looked at the contract they had all the bs on there. Nitrogen in the tires special UV window tint stain resistant treated upholstery the works. I went down the list marking off all the add on costs. Added up to about $1700.00 I told them to remove these plus 1000.00 more off the price & we would talk. They said no. We left. The next day. Went to a different dealership a few towns away. Got the same exact same vehicle for $3500.00 less. If a Dealerships refuses to negotiate or remove items you don't want. WALK AWAY...............
Here in Australia we often use the phrase "drive away, no more to pay" when asking the final price. If that number is acceptable, then that's what one pays. If anything is asked for after this, then just stand up, face the door & just walk away.
Isn't bait and switch already illegal, what good is a new rule when the enforcement or more accurately, lack thereof is the problem? How are these new rules going to suddenly be enforced when the old ones aren't being enforced?
You want to do the "Stand up and walk" response. I once bought a car in an advertisement in the newspaper with a specific price with specific specifications. The salesmen show me the car. There were a few add-ons such as hand stripping, nitrogen-filled tires... I told the salesman I don't want to pay for any of the addons because they are not in the advertisement. He insisted I "have" to. I stood up and told him to sell me the car exactly as advertised or I am walking. He talked to the manager and sold me the car. I have other occasions that I used the "stand-up and walk" to not pay for "red light alert", Scotch Guard Protection... If they already installed the whatever in the factory, then it should be included in the price! NOT an extra.
I had someone teach me that when I negotiate a car price with a dealer, I always negotiate "out the door pricing." This way, they can't try to add on junk fees later.
Why isn't that the default for all Commerce already? If it's a mandatory fee, it needs to be part of the base price. Seems to be like it would be in 101 of "how to regulate a economy".
Every used car dealer in Florida advertises ridiculously low prices, then when you attempt to purchase a "reconditioning fee" is tacked on that can almost double the price.
I honestly loathe the idea of going to a dealership for the same reasons. I actually would buy a new car if it wasn’t for this. So, they aren’t getting my money unless I am in a very dire situation. Otherwise I will continue to buy pre owned cars from people I know and trust.
Dealership = Steal-R-ship 4x4, private party great deal. Grandpa passed nobody else in line to inherit knew how to drive a manual. ♀️"Karen" @ DMV 😡 threatened to "report tax fraud, you forged the sales price!" Until I showed her the online ad for the 4×4. Likely the same reason she "Lost" my new driver's license. Called to see why I didn't get it. You sent it back, upon return to the office I shredded it 😈 they're going to have to bill you for a duplicate. 💲💲💲 I went to a different DMV and got it mailed in 2 weeks. ✌️
There's a law in the UK that each complaint to the FSA about UK banks has to be paid for by the bank. The longer it goes on for, the more the bank is charged for the investigation and administration. Banks here resolve complaints VERY VERY quickly. The opening fee I believe is £500. It might not be a bad idea that dealerships do the same in the USA.
I did an amateur restoration of a classic car a couple of years ago and the cost was close to a new car price. It revealed to me how inexpensive new or late model cars really are. I am not concerned now about haggling. The real money is in the interest paid on the loan. It might be the cheapest to save up most of the money and keep the car till it nearly wears out.
Steve, one thing I have experienced on several occasions is the difference in DMV/registration fees the used car co charges at the time of purchase. When I received my registration documents, the DMV fees paid and shown on the document are much less. I have had to go after these dealerships for a refund, but they never give the full difference back. I have verified at DMV in person that I have been overcharged by the dealer. DMV just tells me to go back to the dealer. I believe that this is extremely common but most people don’t notice.
A lot of dealerships where I live no longer give a price of a vehicle over the phone, their online advertising says to call for a price, when you call they say you have to go to the dealership to get the price. When you get to the dealership they say the vehicle is on the way to the dealership, when the vehicle arrives at the dealership they will call you. A few weeks later you will get a call saying the vehicle is there, you only have a few house to get to the dealership because they have a list of buyers they are calling. When you get to the dealership the salesperson says, how much are you willing to pay over MSRP? I just walked out, purchased the vehicle online from an out of state dealership, had it shipped to my front door.
I deal with same guy at my Ford dealership all the time. I'll call and say I like this F-150 on your website. I ask "run my credit and stuff through and tell me how much it's going to cost". I get there and of course test drive it and it's always exact amount he said counting trade-in for my old one. So I go in, test drive and sign few papers and out of there.
There are some fees that our state requires to be collected by dealers, like tax and license fees, and then there are some fees that the state says can be collected by dealers, but are actually optional, since they don't go to the state, but go to the dealer, instead. The state does not make clear that these fees are optional, and dealers take advantage of that situation by saying they are "government fees that they must collect."
I went to test drive a car that was a certain price advertised online, a special edition of a car, make an appointment, take off work, get there, have no clue of what I was talking about, offered to let me drive a similar model. I drive it, like it but I want to try out the other one. Turns out the car was “sold” and it’s actually the other model for that price and if I wanted the other one I’d have to pay a deposit to order one and the price was 30% hire than online. I laughed on their sales floor and very loudly asked them if they knew what “Bait and switch” was in front of about a dozen people shopping. They tried to hush me move me to somewhere else, I push away from them, flipped them all the bird, left and filed a complaint with the state attorney general. They got sued almost a year later and had to pay hefty fines.
Went to a Nissan dealership a few months back, found a car and wanted to buy that day. They had their "Nissan Advantage Plan" which the salesman mentioned very early and I mentioned very early that I wasn't interested in it. We walked out when he told us it was required for us to spend the $2995 on this junk we didn't want or need. And he was butt hurt about it like we were being unreasonable.
It's still happening... We bought nine new 2022 trucks from one of the big three. Three of them have serious transmission trouble one of the three has had a complete failure. All have less than 10k miles on them. We were told transmission parts and replacements are on back order with none available and an unknown estimated availability time.
The auto dealers Lobby in each state legislature is going to be working overtime to try and stop this. God forbid we have honesty.
In Georgia the used car dealer association, at the school we're required to take every other year to renew our license, always tells us not to use such fees as we risk FTC involvement, but most dealers do anyway. I seldom see any car ads that are technically legal underl FTC rules
By lobby, you mean Bribe
I remember once I went with my dad to buy a car. The salesman quoted a price over the phone and told my dad that they had the car.
Once we got there, the salesman said they didn't have the car. My dad called 15 minutes before. The salesman said it was being sold while they were talking, but he would show my dad something else. My dad told him, "No, I don't do business with liars. Have a nice day."
I laughed all the way home. Lol
I’d have gone through the salesman’s time, and sales pitch before stating that lol
Good introduction to car buying to the son!
@@paulcollyer801 Got a cold call once from a stock broker who just starts his spiel at 800 words a minute without letting me talk and he gets to the end and says "so, can I put you down for 5,000 shares at $50/share?" LOL. I say "no, can't afford anything close". He adds another paragraph of why I should buy and says "ok, lemme pencil you in for 2000 shares". "no". He keeps going, and going, and going, and going. And I've said like 10 words other than "no" the whole time. But I'm sitting with a headset on doing real work on the computer, so I'm fine--not taking any of my time, really. After 30 minutes of this he gets angry. I can hear him throw down the headset and tell someone "this guy..." and it trails off. Then the headset is picked up and it's a totally new voice. But he just carries on from the script like nothing has happened. I keep saying "no" about 5 more times and now this new dude starts SCREAMING at me. "DO YOU GET YOUR ROCKS OFF BY STRINGING ALONG BROKERS ON THE PHONE? WHAT"S YOUR DEAL?" At that point I tell him I did no stringing whatsoever. I kept saying no, no, no. Not once did I give any indication of any interest. The only thing I didn't do is hang up on 'em. And oh-by-the-way, you don't think I could tell I got passed off between two of you? At that point he curses at me and hangs up.
But I wouldn't have done that if it had taken ANY of my time--I woulda just hung up. And I imagine dad and son (particularly son) wanted to be on their way rather than torture a salesman.
If everyone would do that it would put an end to it. They do it because it works.
oh lord here comes the scam bot train
Yeah, I was "required" to buy the window etching. They had worn me down over the several hours that I finally just gritted my teeth and said "fine!" What the dealership DIDN'T realize is whenever folks would oooh & aaaah over my car and asked where I got it, I'd recommend another dealership, stating the place where I got it was a bunch of shysters who tack on fake fees in the end. Hope they like their $500 advertising fee.
stick to your guns. dont let them bully you. just walk out when they start their hard sell.
You want to do the "Stand up and walk" response. I once bought a car in an advertisement in the newspaper with a specific price with specific specifications. The salesmen show me the car. There were a few add-ons such as hand stripping, nitrogen-filled tires... I told the salesman I don't want to pay for any of the addons because they are not in the advertisement. He insisted I "have" to. I stood up and told him to sell me the car exactly as advertised or I am walking. He talked to the manager and sold me the car. I have other occasions that I used the "stand-up and walk" to not pay for "red light alert", Scotch Guard Protection...
@@gooddealonly the last time I was in the dealer the salesman and his direct manager were just letting us sit there for an extended period of time after a long negotiation. I said I think they are waiting for us to leave as we had not agreed on the transaction as it was. We stand up to walk out, get two steps, and the manager's boss approached us and worked out the deal. Overall miserable experience and nearly as bad as time share pitches which are a horrible experience. They both keep you there for hours on end, use high pressure sales tactics, starve you, and the sales person you are dealing with has no real authority to negotiate.
@@gooddealonly See, they install that TruCoat at the factory. There's nothing we can do about that.
@Anthony Bennett India really be searching for gold in the cracks in the sidewalk. If only you didn't have to lie to make your money lol.
Things to do in retirement. When a dealer pulls that “sold it” or “added fees” line, take as much time as you can now to tie up the salesman and their finance folks , adding things and discussing things , just don’t sign anything , and at the end of the day declare you didn’t actually have authority to purchase a vehicle for your family and get up and walk out.
Work mate of mine did something like that. Got tired of all the BS so he started saying yes to add-ons and even added more options. Salesrep said when do you want the car? He said in 5 or 6 years from now and walked out.
@@garfieldsmith332 "I don't. I bought a different one from another dealer while we were talking."
That sounds like fun! I'm retired, and at 58 I look much younger, at least when shaved, so the salesmen wouldn't guess that part. I wouldn't start out with that as the goal, though; I'd only do it when legitimately looking for a new vehicle. That's not likely to be for a while...hope I remember this idea. All three vehicles we have now, the salesmen didn't pull any crap on us, just sold us the vehicle promised at the price promised, adding on only tax and title fees. But my wife's last car (since sold), the VW dealer was wasting a lot of our time, lying to us, etc. I kind of wish we'd just decided at some point that our evening was wasted anyway, done what we could to string them along, then walked out.
The medical industry is worse. I had a colonoscopy that was "covered" under my insurance but ended up with a $2,777 fill for items used that weren't covered or disclosed in advance.
I agree with you, I was lucky when I had cancer I was in the Army. If I was a civilian, I still would be paying for it 30 years later. I can understand your Pain but will never have to deal with it I wish you a Long happy life.
@@gump1005 Had the same experience with an injection. Asked the billing department to resubmit wit a different code, they did, and that bill went away.
When I recently bought a new car, I emailed several dealerships within 100 miles of my home asking for an "out the door price" including tax, tag and title. Only one dealership did (Curtesy Nissan in Tampa) and I went there and upgraded to a better model and got the car for what was quoted in the email with the added upgrade cost. Drove to Tampa and left in my new car with 0% interest.
That's what I've done for my last 3 cars. No haggling, no surprise fees. In and out relatively quickly for the pick up.
I’ve been doing that with Las Vegas Ford dealerships. I contacted internet sales to clarify mandatory fees. Some dealers add nonsense fees for products and services I don’t want, but at least they told me up front so I don’t waste their time or my time. Hopefully the dealership I’m working with now, operates with integrity.
That's what I did with my last used car purchase. I bought from an out of state dealer and needed to get a certified check for the exact amount.
I know of course what a car title is. What do you mean by "tag"?
I miss Saturn dealerships.
I bought two at the same dealership, and the experience was the same both times.
I walked around the lot, found a car I was interested in based on the model, color, features, and the price posted on the vehicle.
Only then did I wave to the squad of salespeople waiting by the building, and the on-deck person walked over, asked if this was the car I was interested in, went and got the keys, let me take a short test drive, and the only "selling" was for small things like a radio upgrade to a CD player (no thanks) and an optional extension of powertrain warranty (I should have said yes on one car), then it was just confirming financing.
From arrival to leaving with a new car was an hour, give or take. And that included my walking around looking for the car.
My technique has not changed in 40 years. When the sales guy takes me in his office I ask for a piece of paper. I write down on it the number I will pay with "out the door" after it and my phone number. I then say call me when you will sell it for that price and not a penny more. I had one try to tack on an extra $75 on a $20K car and I walked out. I got the reputation pretty quickly that if you wanted to sell me anything you had better follow my rules. Last time they said they couldn't possibly sell it to me for that price. I walked out and they called me the next day with a compromise pice. I said no what I put on the paper was my firm price. Two weeks later they called and caved in and sold me the car for the out the door price. I always figure I don't need a car but they need to sell one so in reality I have all the power in this deal.
This is a great idea but only works if you have information on what the cars cost them, what their incentive is for meeting volumes, and add a reasonable amount they will be likely to take for profit. These are all easy to get but most people don't do the work to research it and set an artificially low price no one can meet. Then when they come back with a higher price you don't know if it is reasonable counter offer or they are being greedy.
@@lightningdemolition1964 There are websites where you can find the dealer invoice and that is the cost I use with an extra $500 for license and such. Dealers may pay invoice but when the car sells they get more dealer incentives from the manufacturer. On a $20K car that can be $2000 so I figure they are still doing okay. I had one dealer once say "we need to make something on it" and my reply was don't sell me the car then. Guess what? He sold me the car.
A few years ago in mid July, my neighbor asked me to help him buy a new Honda Accord. I suggested he talk to another neighbor who was the sales manager at a Honda dealer about a 1/2 hour away, but he wanted to try the nearest Honda dealership where he always had his car serviced. So we went their first. Every car- from the cheapest Fit to the fanciest Accord and Pilot, had at least $7,000 in "dealer installed accessories" including fancy rims, nitrogen in the tires, tinted windows, door edge guards, Lo Jack, etc. When the we told the salesman we wanted a car without any of the dealer add ons, he offered a "special" price of only $1,500 over MSRP. When we wouldn't budge, the salesman told us we would have to order a car, it would takes week to get and it would cost more money because it didn't have add ons. My neighbor finally had enough and we walked out and drove to the dealership where our other neighbor worked. Our neighbor the manager assigned us a salesman, we told him what we were looking for and he showed us a dozen Accords that were all the next model year and weren't even advertised as on the market. We picked one out, the salesman called our neighbor, who told him give us the employee price off the invoice (we saw the invoice), take another $500.00 off in dealer incentive cash, put on door edge guards at no charge and write up the sale. My neighbor bought the car on the spot, no fuss. When it was time to replace my neighbor's wife car, he got the same sort of pricing and clean deal for her new car. Every friend I have who is considering a Honda goes with me to see my neighbor and is well treated. My neighbor makes money on every sale, just not as much money as he could if he played games. He is in the car business for the long haul and likes repeat customers. Repeat sales are easier each time and they are less stressful for him, his sales staf and all the people at the dealership.
I’m 55. I’ve bought 1 car from a dealer in my lifetime. The experience was enough to ensure I’d never buy a new car from a dealer ever again.
You are smart. Do you have any idea what you can do with all the money you saved. You can be rich if you take the average car payment and put that into investments every month. Of course you have an idea what you saved I'm just saying for others to read and figure this out. Start out at age 18 and buy older used cars then put that car payment money into a good mutual fund every month. By the time you are in your mid 30"s you will have 300 to 500k. Carve out 40k and go pay cash for a new car if you really want one. But by then you will realize you don't really need a "NEW" car and the way to go is to find a good deal on an off lease car for so much less then new "at that point in life". Then enjoy being rich because your smart. Your probably the only guy on your street with a paid off house also because you are smart enough do do that.
If you choose to walk out on a deal (more people should), be prepared to defend yourself. A salesman in Hillsboro, OR assaulted me when I chose to walk away. Were it not for the armored motorcycle jacket I was wearing, I would have been badly injured. He got jail and the dealer got a bill for replacement of my damaged ARIA helmet.
Is there a particular name attached to this dealership? I had some trouble with the Tonkin dealership many years back.
Did his face get hit with the helmet in self defense?
Or did he come up behind you knocking out of your hands that damaged it?
✌️
@@StephenHutchison This was 10 years ago, so I will not name them.
@@copcuffs9973 The latter.
@@whirledpeaz5758 Fair enough. That's more than long enough for the dealer to fix problems.
Imagine how many pages it would take to improve transparency in health care like this. "We ain't got that much time", so true Steve!
Remember to vote out ANY politician that supports the NADA and car dealership status quo. You have the power; use it>>>>>>
Last three car dealerships I bought vehicles at, I walked in found the vehicle I wanted, told the salesman what I would pay and that he had exactly one hour to complete the deal or I would walk out, they then asked for my keys to the trade in I said no, and that the clock was ticking, the owner and managers came over to give excuses as to why it takes so long and why they needed my keys. Long story short, they never got my keys till the deal was done, and I walked out at exactly one hour. Two days later I got the very vehicle I wanted at a cheaper price and within an hour because my time is very expensive when you waste it. Oh, and those pesky license, taxes destination fees, stocking fees, stripes and other thing that were added came off the price or were reduced severely.
I think the first car I ever bought, in college (around 2003), will always be the best experience I've ever had. Dealerships had just started ramping up their websites. I found a 2 year old Grand Cherokee with an Internet Special. I printed it out and went to the dealership almost immediately. It was the middle of the week so I was talking to two salesmen and they were both actually pretty nice. One of them brought the car around and the other one went to verify the price because he looked genuinely shocked when he saw the price. He came back and neither of them could believe the dealership was going to sell the car for that price. It was about $2k lower than the sticker price. They told me that if I want a Grand Cherokee, I'm probably not going to find a better deal than this. I had been looking everywhere and this was the cheapest one in the city with every single option possible. There was no haggling, no pressure, no stupid fees or dealer options.
Sadly, I was hit 2 days later and it was totaled. I managed to get much more than what I paid for it and was able to get a better model.
Here is a trick that works for me. First, you have to be in the mind to walk out without buying. When I look at buying a car I research the hell out of it before ever stepping on the dealer's lot. If I am satisfied when we sit down to talk "deal" I set an alarm on my phone. I tell the salesman if there is no deal in place when the alarm sounds I walk out. I have had salesmen running behind me begging me to come back in the showroom.
Makes me feel lucky for having such an honest dealer near me. When I bought my current car the only fees I had to pay were the ones mandated by the state and feds and the only other fee was optional and I could have refused it and the service it was for. Hearing about the experience that most other people have at dealers almost scares me.
Over here (Australia), the advertised price needs to be the "on road" cost which includes all fees, taxes, registration, etc. It can only go down from there, not up.
Makes bait and switch advertising a felony
Ooohhh, I like that, so much in fact it would feel wrong until I think about Grandma or young people dealing with the scummy practices.
I had the experience at the local Anderson Chrysler dealer, web price is listed as one thing, about $2000 in add on fees and products, which they refused to remove. I eventually walked out after a week or so of back and forth on several similar cars and bought elsewhere. FYI the web price never changed and I pointed out that their web page had been updated and did not reflect these fees, nor did any of the other cars I looked at have the fees they were asking for on them. "Oh that's another department." They still email me a year later and offer deals. I have told them that they blew it and I bought elsewhere.
Tell them to cease and desist any and all contact, in writing. When their ads persist, sue.
????????????
PROFIT!
@@pullyoursocksup6302 Thanks, but I kind of enjoy reminding them every few months that when they blew off my business, I am now blowing them off. Plus I let them know I tell my friends and family how they treated me. Small town, word gets around.
Not sure if I will ever buy from them, but I like the Chrysler product line so I may go 60 miles to the dealer that did me right on my previous Chrysler purchase.
@@danieldudzik6470 I feel bad you like chrysler but Im sorry you have that, my gmas jeep is from a small town dealer who is a JOKE. They wouldnt last a second if "JeepCares" (chrysler and FCA corporate that is) knew how poorly they handle their brand
@@CT_Taylor I was a hard core Chevy guy and have owned at least 5 Chevys' mostly Trucks. I still own two Chevy trucks, but one needs a new motor, the other is a 14 foot box truck getting 6 MPG on a good day and broken AC. Chryslers started when my Mom gave me a 96 Intrepid, and I eventually traded it in on a 2001 Intrepid. That got totaled by an uninsured Drive and I bout a 2009 Chrysler 300 and eventually traded that in on a new Chrysler 200. All were great cars. I traded the 200 in on the Ford Edge, and liked it but now wish I had my 200 back.
I lived in Pontiac and the local newspaper had a dealership ad that listed a vehicle at a low price. You get there and that vehicle was already sold, but we can sell you this one for $1,000 more. The old Bait and switch! That was back in the 80’s!
It's about time. I hate dealing with dealers
I know of one Nissan dealer in the Phoenix area that will post a price, and when you go there the say they don't know what I talking about even though I called beforehand and they confirmed the price. Suddenly the price goes up many thousands of dollars. They did it twice. That was not the price with the fees, but the base price. Then you have the doc fees which varies wildly. If you say you are going to pay with cash they then raise the price of the car.
The Bait & Switch tactic reminds me of the beginning of "National Lampoon's Vacation" when Clark Griswold was B&S'd by Eugene Levy's character. The dealer even squashed Clark's old car
The biggest thing is that when you go into a dealership you need to be willing to walk away. Do your research and know what you are good with paying but if they are tacking fees and charging you for things just walk out (even if you have been there a couple hours). I am fortunate living in a city with a lot of dealers so easy to go down the street; however they count on you spent hours there and you are not going to want to have wasted that time and will not do it. Funny thing is most times I have walked out because of stupid things I end up buying the car from that dealer a couple days later, they call you back take off the stupid things and maybe toss in some small added things to get you to actually buy the car. This was before all the chaos, but they want to move the unit and if you walk it flips the power dynamic in negotiations completely.
Many moons ago, buying my first full size new truck I went to two dealers (same brand), gave them the out the door price I was willing to pay. Asked them how close they could come to it and let me know, both knew I was looking at identical trucks (different color) at another dealer. The first one was $3k over my “willing to pay” price, the other was $25 over (some fee I forgot to include). When I told the first dealer the second was much better, he said he could cut the price another $1k. I asked him why he lied about the first quote, he was silent. I told him I don’t deal with liars and hung up. That’s how I’ve bought every new car since, research, make an offer and whoever gets closest, gets the sale.
I mean,... The one that was25 over, did you literally like it more? Its possible options or colors or etc maybe would shake out such a way. but if you mean identical as IDEN-TI-CAL then bravo thats fair enoguh
@@CT_Taylor yeah, the only difference was the color. All options were the same and both colors were within my liking. About the only two colors I won’t buy are red or yellow, all other normal colors are good. And pink isn’t normal or it’d go in there with red and yellow.
@@ridingwithairbubble1694 For many many years, there had never been a recorded case of a PINK car being STOLEN or CARJACKED (I guess with the young street punks, it doesn't garner as much "street-cred" to admit you've been out stealing Pink cars to drive around in. Then, some time ago, they stopped saying that "never has a pink car, been stolen or carjacked" so I guess someone got one sometime. However Pink is quite likely still the safest from theft/carjacking colour of all. However almost zero cars are available with factory pink paint jobs, so usually pink is only available as a custom aftermarket job, more likely on al old classic vehicle. eg someone making up an "Elvis' mum's, Pink Cadillac" .
@@KiwiCatherineJemma other than the old Mary Kay pink Cadillacs I’ve never seen a pink car. Pink just doesn’t go with my wardrobe, hehe.
I have dealt with this as most people have, but what really freaked me out is when I bought my last car and they were up front about everything and honest. Weirdest car buying experience of my life. I was always on the lookout for the "gotcha!" It NEVER came... Still waiting for it 3 years later! Seriously, what did I miss? I paid about $1800 more than I absolutely had to, but the lack of BS was worth it! AND THEY told me I did NOT have to get that stuff. I just wanted it!
Where was this? It sounds like you somehow traveled to an alternate universe.
@@DJdoppIer My gut tells me they got in trouble for something and were over compensating, but that is my pessimist side. I genuinely don't know how I got out without getting ripped off. It was my second new car and my first one (different dealership) they just wanted gone, so I got a good deal. I would not recommend that place now though. I have been told they changed managers and are just like everywhere else now.
I sold cars for a while. The best advice I can give is to always look like you are ready to leave. Don’t set anything down, keep your keys in your hand, purse on your shoulder, say you haven’t had lunch yet if the salesman leaves you alone to check with his manager wander off & make him ind you. Manufacturers value the buyer surveys they send out quite a lot & reward dealers for good results. You can actually leverage that.
good stuff, upvoted
This is so true. Another good tactic is get the fair market value of the car you are looking to buy in your area and negotiate from there. Fun fact some cars will go for more in a certain area because of popularity or climate or whatever outside force. Also since they are pressuring you for a sale use this tactic. "What is the out the door price right now?" and make sure you repeat this until they get it. Most salesman I notice will give the price they hope to sell to you force then you work down from there. I normally will take that and the fair market value and cut straight in the middle like say if he was 30k and the market value was 25k I'd offer 27,500 out the door right now with all fees waived. I push on that if they don't budge I leave.
I know sales people work off commissions and volume and the deal needs to make money so I do try to meet half way with the dealership. And a lot sales will notice that normally take my offer. Only ever had one slimy sales person push some fees. I just left and told him you lied to me so you just lost a deal. He actually called the next day begging me to come back and I told him no being honest and upfront is important in my book and I don't deal with slimeballs like you.
A couple more things. You have probably heard that the best time to buy is at the end of the month. It is absolutely true, especially if the month ends mid week. I would wager that months with fewer days are better if you can stand to wait until the leap year.
When someone finances through the dealer the salesperson gets a taste even if you go through a separate finance person. A bag of cash is better if you are buying from Craigslist but you can get a better price if they think you are going to finance there & they can claw back a few hundred $.
@@HankScorpio64 Blowhards come on the lot all day & say “what’s the best price on this truck if I buy it now?” without driving it or smelling the interior. The salesman knows that 90% of them aren’t going to buy anyway so they will throw out a lowball price or invite them inside for some mutual torture. I made an offer on my last purchase & stipulated that it includes all fees & such. I was shocked to see that there was a $700 document fee & another $500 for prep or something. The dealers basically steal that money from the sales price & the salesman doesn’t get commission on it. When I sold cars the doc fees went from $18 to $75 there we thought it was the end of the world.
Dealers use these tactics all the time. They want to sell you the car they want to sell. I have learned if they are super pushy about certain add-ons I look at the paperwork and only buy things that are fully refundable. They hate it when I show up a week later wanting to cancel everything, now they have no leverage and I make sure I have copies of everything.
I hope something is done. I'd rather pay more if everyone paid the same. I always hated leaving a dealership knowing someone got a better deal than me for the same car.
You stand alone, Bro.
All you have to do is keep saying no until you hare happy with the price. I'm like you, I do research on what the car should cost if it is the best deal ever. Then I offer a few thousand less and make them work like hell to get the price back up to what I actually want to pay. If they don't comply I simply stand up, say this car cost too much and walk towards the door.
Don't worry if you do that they will stop you and offer the car for less but not as cheap as you like. Stand up again and walk towards the door. In the end you will get the car for what you are willing to pay or maybe a small amount more but you will not have to pay a large amount more and if they want you to and will not agree then try that some place else.
The power lies with you. The dealership and sales guy and finance manager and even the owner all have time invested in the deal so mentally they can not allow you to walk, their ego will not allow it. Their egos and your ability to manipulate them via there ego is your power over them. But not unless you recognize this and use it against them. Works every time. if they have 4 hours or more into the deal and negotiating with you then "NO MATTER WHAT" their ego will not allow then to let you walk away without selling you a car.
Destination is a junk fee. It should be included in MSRP, and is often not part of the online dealer advertised price. OEMs use this to mislead consumers as to the true cost of the vehicle.
@@natehydrv1661 That's the only way it would make any sense. Someone that lives next to the plant pays the same as someone who lives 2,000 miles away. Since it's the same across the board it's part of the damn MSRP!
Destination is always included on the window sticker. Did a dealer try to charge you a second destination fee?
Back on the sixties when my dad brought a new car he would drive to the factory on Michigan to save on transport fees, and because he could get a great deal from a local Detroit dealer who only had to take an order and never have to deal with the customer again. Then they started unified transport costs and it was the same price across the country. Coming from California we got the best part of that deal.
I once bought paint protection which turned out to be worthless. The next time I bought a car, from a different dealer they started pushing paint protection. I said no. A few minutes later they again tried to convince me to buy it. I said no again, at which I told them I would not say it a third time. When they brought it up the third time, they were speechless when I reached across the desk, picked-up the contract, tore it in half and walked out.
I would like to inform everyone, the rule itself is the last 13 pages of the linked document, most of which is double spaced with each line being 10-20 words. The FIRST 113 pages is descriptions about why they think the law is necessary, their descriptions of what the rules require/mean, and tables of 'expected' costs/returns.
I bait and switch.
Thank you!
The place I worked for would advertise one of our products at an insanely low price and it was the job of us salespeople to up-sell them. Some people complained that it was “bait and switch”.
Particularly if the advertised item was out of stock and required a 4 to 6 week wait.
I just bought a Honda in Southern California and the process was just terrible. I'm still recovering. Every single dealer in So Cal (and I called them ALL) did not disclose the total costs on the phone or in advertising. The ad would show something like MSRP only with no markup. Then when I drive miles to the dealership they would say 1) Oh, that doesn't include out $9000 markup, 2) you are lucky we don't have a markup, but you have to buy $9000 worth of added "upgrades" that I didn't want and we marked up themselves or 3) Well I don't actually have the car, but I'll get one soon. It was a terrible experience, but since everyone did it, there was no way out. I think for sure that there should be a law to force dealers to disclose ALL costs and Fees and add-ons or markups in their advertising. At the very least...I would know what I'm in for and could properly judge the competition. In some cases even on the phone they would either lie about the markup or just say they won't tell me till i'm standing in the showroom. Horrible. I hate car dealers...I hate all of them. Bottom of the barrel sales people.
I recall, around 20 years ago, a local Subaru dealer was trying very hard to jack up the price on the new Impreza WRX that was just released in the USA. They were adding aftermarket sunroofs. I was blown away that a dealership would send cars to get a hole cut in the roof in order to add a non-OEM sunroof and then charge an exorbitant fee for the privilege of having the vehicle mangled in that way.
What a bunch of idiots, opening themselves up to leak warranty work!
Ha when i bought a nissan altima once from andy mohr nissan in indy, they tried to convince me i had to buy the window etching and had a separate fee on the final statwment.
"Im buying the car for the price and options previously agreed upon. That isnt an option im asking for"
"But its already done. It comes with the car"
"Great so its included in the price"
"Well no, we charge separately for it"
"Then its not included in the car."
"No, we already did it"
"Then its included in the price of the car"
About 5 rounds of that later he reached across the table, scratched out the option, modified the final price accordingly, signednit and i signed as well. Lol
He knew if i went one more round of that i was getting up and walking out. And he was the finance guy. So thats the last step and where they put the highest pressure on you to just sign.
He knew he was gonna lose that sale.
He was already upset i had external financing at rates he simply couldnt beat.
Whomever picks up the pen first loses, folks
When I bought a 2009 aveo, the dealers website stated, 5995 dollars. I get there, the sticker says, 6995. My friend, the salesman says dont worry, we'll fix it. When I get to the fiance guy, they ran my credit for 6995, I was like, no the price advertised is this. So they changed that. What should have really made me run though, the warranty changed from a limited warranty, to as is. Then they really pushed an extended warranty, and I got it. Unfortunately, the aveo of that era, has an issue with the gaskets, which then caused oil and coolant to mix. The warranty ran out, at 4 years, and the car was scrap at 5 years, because of this issue. So as the loan ended, so did my car. I am more careful now, when buying a vehicle.
I'm still riding around in an Aveo 5 of that year
Then again, the hatchback is just a rebadged Daewoo
"be the kind of dealer you would want your kids to buy from." There, 126 pages saved.
Used car dealerships are making money on the bait and switch. I know someone who fell for the classic "We sold that car this morning, but we have something else for you." They had only been open 30 minutes. First time buyers never realize how long it takes to sell a car... MUCH longer than 30 min on the lot
I test drove a car immediately after it came off the carrier (I had been waiting for it to arrive knowing roughly when it was expected in that day), still with the plastic covers on everything, and that thing was on the lot WAY longer than 30 minutes while I jumped through all the hoops afterward to complete the deal...
The person that came in on the sale price should tell the salesman he will take another car but for that same price. See what they say.
I recently bought a Tesla. Simply logged on to their website, found the one I wanted (existing inventory), and clicked buy. A couple weeks later, I simply drive up to the delivery center, signed some papers and drive off. Best car buying experience ever. This annoys the heck out of the dealership model to the point that auto makers are lobbying each state to prevent this method of car buying - forcing a dealership model. They are also trying to prevent companies from providing over the air (OTA) updates - since that is another revenue source.
Our local Ford dealership charges a flat $500 for "government fees". The Subaru dealership charges $175, same fees.
That’s what should be done. Anything else is a damn joke.
@@Ceece20 I think the point is, why do the ford dealer and subaru dealer "government fees" not match up. Likely they are both lying and it is less than either are charging.
In 2016 I called and made an offer and agreed on an out-the-lot price on a new car and that was exactly what the bottom line was on the contract. (Los Angeles)
My parents went to look at a car that was listed for a certain price online. When they got to the dealer, they were advised the car was $2k more than what was listed online. After they negotiated the price, and the dealer agreed, the car salesman came back with the sales contract showing the car price increase $11k due to their service fee of $7k on top of license and sales tax. My parents walked out.
I worked at a dealership, and they had what they called the "Whack Pack" - a series of fees that were charged to the customer that GUARANTEED that the dealership would make a profit on the car; irrespective of discounts or rebates.
Be like George Costanza... "I'm Walking Out Of Here!!!!!"
Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is all on line and easy to search. States also have consumer protection rules that are online. In Wisconsin, it's Wisconsin Administrative Rules. It was under the Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection and Department of Motor Vehicles.
His snarky comments go very well with my morning coffee.
I once made a scene in a dealership because they promised me a specific vehicle, and after two special trips they told me they couldn't deliver on their promise. I made a point of using the phrase bait and switch, and that they didn't follow up on their promises. - and I made sure other customers could hear me.
Every car dealer thinks they are honest. It is the other guys who use predatory practices that give the industry a bad name. They don't think they abuse mandatory fees; they are just following standard industry practices. They don't use "bait and switch." They use "clever advertising."
Best comment. I worked at dealerships. They all think they don't do wrong. They literally believe it.
I checked multiple car dealer sites which showed available cars and the list price. I sent emails to them asking specifically if the vehicles shown were in fact on the lot and available to purchase. All emailed back wanting my phone number and did not answer the question as to whether the vehicles were available. I finally called one dealership and spoke to a salesman who finally admitted that none of the cars shown on their web site were available and actually admitted that they didn't even know if the vehicles have been manufactured or even when later this year they may arrive.
While Steve doesn't recommend purchasing rental cars, I've purchased 2 and both times the price quoted was the price paid. No haggling, and no extra fees (besides tag and tax). Although they did try to upsell me on every little add on, they weren't required.
Ex rentals can be an excellent buy, dependent on the original hire company. You have a car that will have been used in a variety of driving styles, which assuming not much “ragging” of the engine, means it’s run in better than if a 17yo boy racer or 85yo Miss Daisy type had driven it. If a reputable company it will have been maintained also.
Picked up mine for a good price, at around 5,000 miles, now at 65,000 5yrs later. I keep her well maintained also
Its still bloody stupid that America doesn't include taxes in the price.
For everything that is wrong with the GST at least the stores note the total price of the product and don't expect you to have to do the math yourself.
Yup this just happen to me on Saturday, June 25th. I went to Toyota to buy a Prius. The site said the price (MSRP) and show up to buy the car. I expected to pay that price plus tax, license, and doc fees. They come out with a printout of the car, but with new fees. The $28k car turned into $35k PLUS tax license and doc fees. They also low balled me on my 2016 Rav4 Limited that had only 24,600 miles. I walked out. Considering I bought so many cars from them including a new Sienna Platinum last August from the same guy, I was mad. All my cars are serviced there. They are screwing over their loyal customers. Today, I sold my Rav4 to CarMax. The question now is who is going to sell me a new car for cash. Obviously, not Toyota. They can keep their "market adjustment " BS add-on. They lost long term income from loyal customers.
Even if it is easier to understand online, I like the old school version (which is like me) of going and looking it up in a reference book for example. I think 🤔 it may help muscle memory. Thank you 🤔❤️🇺🇸
I live in Japan. Here dealers are required to advertise 2 prices. One is the car’s price and the other is the drive away price. The drive away price includes all taxes and fees. You can walk in and pay that price and drive away in thar car. Well, you can’t really drive away that day as new tags have to be obtained at each ownership transfer and parking certificates have to be obtained, but you get the idea.
There are cases where you may pay more and that would be if you live in another prefecture (think state) to where the car is being sold, but that’s just adjusting for different taxes and tag fees etc. But if you live in the same prefecture then you will only pay the advertised price. Dealers still will try and up sell you services of course, but at least you know what the minimum price is.
The thing that I hate the most is the "documentation fee." What the hell, I have to pay $800 damn dollars for your paper-pushers to do their damn jobs?! And OF COURSE there's a state law (bought and paid for with dealership association lobbying money) that says they can't change that fee from customer to customer - it is literally non-negotiable BY LAW! Absolutely RIDICULOUS! The FTC isn't cracking down on THAT law, I guaran-damn-tee it.
I walk up to the first dealer and ask what the lowest price out the door for this car? He gives me a line of BS. I turn around and leave.
This is the main reason I have never bought a vehicle from a dealership. I went to a couple dealerships a few times to look at potentially buying and was immediately met with a fast talking salesman and I walked away on the spot.
The last time I bought a car, I wrote a check for the amount I wanted to pay. I set the check down and said that I didn't care how they got to that number, that was the amount I was going to pay. After a short amount of time filled with protests, I drove the car away.
I don’t think I’ll ever buy a car again unless there is a hard price that I can purchase online, and have the comfort to “sleep on it” without dealing with a team of people trained to squeeze every penny out of me within a high pressure environment.
I bought my last car at Mercedes Benz of Marin. They were wonderful. Did all negotiating on line in advance. Told them I needed a day to think about it, "No problem". Since they were a state away I had to arrange to fly over to buy the car, they actually held it a week no questions asked.
I always ask for the "Out The Door" price. In fact I usually sit down with the salesman and tell him or her, "I will pay this amount for the car, including TTL, absolute bottom dollar". I have left many showrooms, only to be stopped in the parking lot by a capitulating salesman or sales manager. One time we left the showroom, and the gate guard was instructed NOT to let us leave. The secret is that when you make your final offer, you must be genuinely prepared to go home without a deal.
back in the dark ages, a person I knew would write a check for what he was willing to pay, hand it to the salesman, and tell him to take it to the manager and come back with either the check or the keys.
We love you, Mr. Steve....but 🤭....this is the first time, as we watched and listened, your voice faded and was replaced with...."Bueller?.....Bueller?...." 😂 God bless you for sticking with it to the end! 😇🤭
I'm glad my local dealer decided to play games and I found a good dealer about an hours drive from me. I wanted to buy local. I wanted a new F150. All they had was the V8 and the small Ecoboost. I wanted a 3.5 Ecoboost. First she tells me how great the V8 sounds and how much trouble the 3.5 is (it's not. The only real issue they had was corrected in 2017) then she tells me the engine isn't available on the truck I want..... Then they keep pushing the V8 on me with monthly payments only to negotiate with. The other dealer took my call, asked if I would give him an hour or so to locate the truck I wanted, called back in 20 minutes with the price, tax, title, license, and said he would need to pull my credit to give me an accurate payment since he won't make assumptions and quote numbers that may or may not be true. I did the credit app on their site, he called me back with a payment to the penny. I asked him if I needed to make a deposit for him to go get the truck from another dealer and he said my word was good with them. Two days later I drove my new Truck home exactly for what I was told to the penny. I have since went back and bought my wife a used Dodge Journey with the same experience. There are good ones out there!
one of my customers just switched the insurance on his 2017 GMC Sierra to storage only. the engine has been out of it for 1 month and the dealership said the parts could take 1 year to come in.
If a dealer says something is required, stand up and walk out
Lucky to have a decent dealer to deal with. Did have a bad experience there once. Went in looking for a specific used car, the kid (he was probably 20) insisted on showing me a new car. Okay, I had been trying to decide between new and used, so I figured why not. The car he wanted to sell me (not the one I wanted) was parked in, so he left me with the keys and disappeared. Never came back. I finally got angry, walked back to the dealership, found another salesperson to hand the keys to and left.
I probably went a little Karen, but I wrote a very polite email to the sales manager telling them what happened, and letting them know that unless they offfered me a good deal on the car I actually wanted, I was taking my business elsewhere. I got an apology from the sales manager and a discount on the car I actually wanted.
I was going to buy a brand new VW golf TDI many years ago. They told me that two charges were mandatory, rubber mats and another BS charge. I argued I'm not paying for that and I walked out. I was super surprised he didn't try to negotiate the charge/make it free.
When they want that money real bad and won't budge. They'll just wait for the next one who will pay for them junk fees.
If the car is hot on the market, they will sell it to the next guy.
I enjoy dealing with dealers! Been on the consumer side of deals for over 45 years, no connection to the industry at all! A high school friend got suckered into a deal, paid over $800 for junk. I made a trek to see him, walked into the dealer, in 30 min had a check for refund of the junk stuff.
The best solution to unwanted "fees" is to get up and walk away. The sooner the better.
While online car shopping for a Kia in Wesley Chapel, Florida, a local dealership had this fine print:
“Price is plus tax, tag, title, registration, any dealer-installed accessories and dealer-provided benefits, and a pre-delivery service fee of $999, Private Tag Agency Fee of $189, and Electronic Registration Filing Fee of $199, which charges represent costs and profits to the dealer for items such as inspecting, cleaning, and adjusting vehicles and preparing documents related to the sale. New vehicle pricing excludes the $3992 [dealership] Advantage Program. Pre-owned vehicle pricing excludes the $2492 [dealership] Advantage Program.”
Ignoring the other grossly inflated fees, if you try to purchase a vehicle online, they actually have a pre-checked box for the “Advantage Program” that’s greyed out so you can’t un-check it. I actually emailed them, and they said I had to pay it if I wanted the car.
That “Advantage Program” is mandatory and consists of “PROTECTIVE COATINGS, SURFACE SANITATION (I think they mean sanitization), RAIN REPELLENT (windshield), HEADLIGHT PROTECTION, DOOR EDGE & CUP GUARDS, NITROGEN TIRE SERVICE, CUSTOMER MOBILE APP, and more.
I only saw this scam on the local Kia dealer sites. If other dealers are running this scam, they don’t advertise it on their websites. Needless to say, I took my business elsewhere.
Without reading the notice, and the commission voted 4 to 1 to approve it, I wonder who the lone holdout was, and why.
The one with the new car, of course.
This is why I have a Saturn. I don't drive it anymore, but that wasn't due to a problem with the Saturn, I broke my neck and the Saturn is too low to the ground and lacks visibility I need.
Saturn dealers were awesome. There was no hard sell. There was no upsell unless you asked for something additional. And you could get, not an estimate, but a hard quote over the phone. When you got to the dealer, the price on the contract was the one you were quoted. If you said you wanted a particular car, you got that car. No "we sold that car" BS.
So what happened to Saturn?
GM shut it down. I would have bought Saturns for the rest of my life. And smiled every time.
My partner wanted a Honda CR-V. A particular model, with a particular shade of Honda paint. One dealer told her "we have just the car for you, come on down".
They didn't have that car. They didn't have any cats with the color of paint. And the price wasn't even close to what we expected. And the salesman and his manager were the rudest car dealers I've ever seen. They were condescending, sexist, and demeaning. I wanted to rip their lips off. If it wasn't a lie, it was an insult. If it wasn't an insult, it was a stereotype. Finally, I stood up and said "No. We're leaving. Now."
The idiots tried to get in my way to physically bar me from leaving. We left, after I threatened to leave -- after calling the cops to file charges for unlawful detention and a raft of bunko charges.
We went to a different Honda dealer. They had the car. They had the paint. They didn't dick around with us. They sold us the car for a reasonable and honest price. We still have it. That dealer is still there, to giving us service on the car they sold us.
The other dealer shut down, and was reopened as a different dealership, owned by someone else. Not because of us or our missed opportunity, but because we weren't the first or only customers they tried to shaft, after testing us like ignorant females who knew nothing about cars.
I find this interesting, in Australia we have "Drive away" pricing OR price plus on road costs, these are both regulated and consumers know what they generally expect to pay to drive the vehicle off the lot unless they want to add options from the dealer like window tint, paint protection etc etc.
I find it frustrating as a consumer when traveling to the US even for small purchases, where you have a price listed, but then there are taxes, tips (We don't really do tipping down under, wait staff are paid reasonably well) etc and often the price is >30% more than what the price listed on the menu is...
It's nice knowing that if you see a price of say $20 it will be that, and not $25 or $30, or in the case of a car multiply that by 1000!
I just had a friend take her car back to a dealership for a serious problem. They had her sign for a lender car that she thought was free. Turns out she was signing a lease for the car, and they never told her. Talk about a scam.
Is it limited to only cars? What about motorbikes, e-bikes, farm equipment, and other vehicles? Buying any vehicle entails being subjected to these tricks and lies. 😔
My Daughter just bought a new 2023 Kia Sportage. Dealership told her she had to buy the floor mats. Price $236.00 She told them she did not want them. They said it's part of the car and they could not take them out or off the price. So she calls me asking advice. I told her to have them make up the contract and all the paperwork ready & I was headed that way. When I looked at the contract they had all the bs on there. Nitrogen in the tires special UV window tint stain resistant treated upholstery the works. I went down the list marking off all the add on costs. Added up to about $1700.00 I told them to remove these plus 1000.00 more off the price & we would talk. They said no. We left. The next day. Went to a different dealership a few towns away. Got the same exact same vehicle for $3500.00 less. If a Dealerships refuses to negotiate or remove items you don't want. WALK AWAY...............
Here in Australia we often use the phrase "drive away, no more to pay" when asking the final price. If that number is acceptable, then that's what one pays. If anything is asked for after this, then just stand up, face the door & just walk away.
To add to that; in Aussie there is also not the problem of loading cars with overpriced accessories.
Isn't bait and switch already illegal, what good is a new rule when the enforcement or more accurately, lack thereof is the problem? How are these new rules going to suddenly be enforced when the old ones aren't being enforced?
You want to do the "Stand up and walk" response. I once bought a car in an advertisement in the newspaper with a specific price with specific specifications. The salesmen show me the car. There were a few add-ons such as hand stripping, nitrogen-filled tires... I told the salesman I don't want to pay for any of the addons because they are not in the advertisement. He insisted I "have" to. I stood up and told him to sell me the car exactly as advertised or I am walking. He talked to the manager and sold me the car. I have other occasions that I used the "stand-up and walk" to not pay for "red light alert", Scotch Guard Protection... If they already installed the whatever in the factory, then it should be included in the price! NOT an extra.
I had someone teach me that when I negotiate a car price with a dealer, I always negotiate "out the door pricing." This way, they can't try to add on junk fees later.
Randy wise out of durand solid me a truck online sad it was 1400 on the phone sad it was 1400 walking in and drove off at 1200 I got lucky
Always great shows, thanks Steve!
Why isn't that the default for all Commerce already?
If it's a mandatory fee, it needs to be part of the base price. Seems to be like it would be in 101 of "how to regulate a economy".
Every used car dealer in Florida advertises ridiculously low prices, then when you attempt to purchase a "reconditioning fee" is tacked on that can almost double the price.
I honestly loathe the idea of going to a dealership for the same reasons. I actually would buy a new car if it wasn’t for this. So, they aren’t getting my money unless I am in a very dire situation. Otherwise I will continue to buy pre owned cars from people I know and trust.
good idea
Dealership = Steal-R-ship
4x4, private party great deal. Grandpa passed nobody else in line to inherit knew how to drive a manual.
♀️"Karen" @ DMV 😡 threatened to "report tax fraud, you forged the sales price!"
Until I showed her the online ad for the 4×4.
Likely the same reason she "Lost" my new driver's license.
Called to see why I didn't get it. You sent it back, upon return to the office I shredded it 😈 they're going to have to bill you for a duplicate. 💲💲💲
I went to a different DMV and got it mailed in 2 weeks.
✌️
The issue is our legal system is too complicated. Bait and switch is already illegal. Prosecute it.
There's a law in the UK that each complaint to the FSA about UK banks has to be paid for by the bank. The longer it goes on for, the more the bank is charged for the investigation and administration. Banks here resolve complaints VERY VERY quickly. The opening fee I believe is £500.
It might not be a bad idea that dealerships do the same in the USA.
I did an amateur restoration of a classic car a couple of years ago and the cost was close to a new car price. It revealed to me how inexpensive new or late model cars really are. I am not concerned now about haggling. The real money is in the interest paid on the loan. It might be the cheapest to save up most of the money and keep the car till it nearly wears out.
Steve, one thing I have experienced on several occasions is the difference in DMV/registration fees the used car co charges at the time of purchase. When I received my registration documents, the DMV fees paid and shown on the document are much less. I have had to go after these dealerships for a refund, but they never give the full difference back. I have verified at DMV in person that I have been overcharged by the dealer. DMV just tells me to go back to the dealer. I believe that this is extremely common but most people don’t notice.
A lot of dealerships where I live no longer give a price of a vehicle over the phone, their online advertising says to call for a price, when you call they say you have to go to the dealership to get the price. When you get to the dealership they say the vehicle is on the way to the dealership, when the vehicle arrives at the dealership they will call you. A few weeks later you will get a call saying the vehicle is there, you only have a few house to get to the dealership because they have a list of buyers they are calling. When you get to the dealership the salesperson says, how much are you willing to pay over MSRP? I just walked out, purchased the vehicle online from an out of state dealership, had it shipped to my front door.
I deal with same guy at my Ford dealership all the time. I'll call and say I like this F-150 on your website. I ask "run my credit and stuff through and tell me how much it's going to cost". I get there and of course test drive it and it's always exact amount he said counting trade-in for my old one. So I go in, test drive and sign few papers and out of there.
Oxymoron du jour: "honest dealers" It begs the question of how we got where we are; aka every action creates an equal but opposite reaction.
There are some fees that our state requires to be collected by dealers, like tax and license fees, and then there are some fees that the state says can be collected by dealers, but are actually optional, since they don't go to the state, but go to the dealer, instead. The state does not make clear that these fees are optional, and dealers take advantage of that situation by saying they are "government fees that they must collect."
Always walk in knowing that it's 100% likely you will be walking out to make saying no easier to the dealer.
Ben being held under by US Coast Guard, Steve's RHS
In Australia a lot of dealerships use “drive away” price, and that’s it, simple 🇦🇺
I went to test drive a car that was a certain price advertised online, a special edition of a car, make an appointment, take off work, get there, have no clue of what I was talking about, offered to let me drive a similar model. I drive it, like it but I want to try out the other one. Turns out the car was “sold” and it’s actually the other model for that price and if I wanted the other one I’d have to pay a deposit to order one and the price was 30% hire than online. I laughed on their sales floor and very loudly asked them if they knew what “Bait and switch” was in front of about a dozen people shopping. They tried to hush me move me to somewhere else, I push away from them, flipped them all the bird, left and filed a complaint with the state attorney general. They got sued almost a year later and had to pay hefty fines.
Went to a Nissan dealership a few months back, found a car and wanted to buy that day. They had their "Nissan Advantage Plan" which the salesman mentioned very early and I mentioned very early that I wasn't interested in it. We walked out when he told us it was required for us to spend the $2995 on this junk we didn't want or need. And he was butt hurt about it like we were being unreasonable.
It's still happening... We bought nine new 2022 trucks from one of the big three. Three of them have serious transmission trouble one of the three has had a complete failure. All have less than 10k miles on them. We were told transmission parts and replacements are on back order with none available and an unknown estimated availability time.
Hundo tucked under the US Coast Guard sign. 4