Is more expensive better? What I learned from comparing 5 differently priced speakers.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- #hifi #speakers #audiophile #stereo #audioreviews #highfidelity
My new Patreon account : / thomasandstereo
Gear mentioned in this review
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Exasound E28 DAC
Modwright LS100 Tube preamp
Moon W5.3 Power amp
Mcintosh MAC6700 integrated amp
Purifi class D power amp
Doge 7 DAC
Doge 8 DAC
KLH Model 5 speakers
Wharfedale D225 Speakers
KEF LS50 Speakers
Cabasse Minorca MC40 Speakers
Totem Sky Speakers
REVEL M106 Speakers
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Thomas, this is the best teaching video on how to pursue audio that I have seen. Not just what you present though. Your style is also perfect for me. Being willing to try blind tests moves you ahead of all other video folk.I can easily follow your meaning. Keep up the good work!!
My take on this is very simple. The minute you start really enjoying your favourite music is the key to knowing which speakers/ set-up is right for you.
Love such content! More!
Nice, glad it was fun for you.
Hey bud I just recently found you on here and I really enjoy your videos. I appreciate the break downs and all the knowledge that you have and share. Priceless! I thank you kindly sir...
You really nailed it Thomas! It's so informative, thank so much, and more vids like this please.
Hi tom, I like the stories, as much, as the reviews, more hifi chit chat please... Thanks Antony, Warrington
Glad you like them!
Yes, taste, equipment synergy and room. Never forget the room.
My room is a nightmare. The whole sound stage is four feet to the left… 😕
i am just happy to see an appearance of the wharfedale 225, great value buy i made a few years back.
had a few speakers after that so i am gaining experience and maybe a taste for sound i like.
now i am trying to make my own speakers, and i am thinking how am i going to get the sound i like from driver selection and dsp?
I love your stories Thomas - absolutely nailed it! Great watch 🔥
It all comes down to one’s individual taste. And then it comes to room dimensions and acoustics, speaker placement & positioning, then season that taste to your ears. I like seeing credible measurements and lab reviews coupled with sound tests and impressions, but that would not be the decisive factor to purchase. If one watches enough reviewers covering speakers one has listened to awhile, one can start to tell which direction the reviewers preferences lean. If that matches w/what you like, then it’s a speaker to consider. This was a great topic to share. First, identify what overall sound signature one prefers.
I run two advent loudspeakers circa 1973- re coned woofers, tweeters upgraded via madisound warehouse, Madison Wisconsin; four infinity bookshelf speakers circa 2000; powered by a harmon kardon amp circa 2002 in a house built of finished brick in Michoacán México and feel comfortable stating the sound quality at all volumes is comparable to ANYTHING in today's market.
Thoughtful and insightful... makes good listening....Thank you...
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks brother.
Maybe psychologically we feel expensive gear is better, but if we use our brains and choose wisely, some cheaper gear sounds good and serves better. Wharfedales are good examples.
I bought the Polk R 200s and still waiting to buy a Av receiver for Movies and music. I'm going with the Yamaha rxa4a. I hope the Polks sound good. I've seen a couple Google reviews and the speakers he put them up against were twice as expensive and the Revel speakers here too.
Nice, I should review that speaker too.Maybe I will reach out to Polk.
DSP is a far less expensive way to get "that sound" that you like.
Latest modest price electronics are high resolution enough. Get the most neutral and dynamic speakers you can afford, maximise your room acoustics, and then shape your different sound profiles with DSP. Warmth, airiness, richness, is ultimately a frequency response right?
The high-end approach seems to be all about nostalgia and hype.
ty for the info
Thomas, I saw you unwrapping some KLH Model 5’s in your video… will you be doing a review of these speakers? I hope so as they seem to be highly regarded by some of your peers.
Yeah, it was actually supposed to be this week but I discover something more with those speakers so I am delaying by a week.
Just a quick comment on the poll: you probably dont want to put two separate ideas in one selection such as “more discussions” and “no price limit”
Just my 2 cent’s!
Thank you for your videos
Yep. Nailed it! 😂
🤣🤣🤣
🥳
@@ThomasAndStereo I wonder if that means I like detailed sound.
Actually, I like neutral-sounding speakers that have reproduce acoustic instruments with great timbral accuracy. I use Quad 63's with a sub for playing mostly orchestral music, but with many other genres mixed in.
I wish I could have been in your speaker test group. That would have been fun!
It would be really cool to hear the rap session your friends had after the test. 3:17
Kef ls50 sounds so coloured to me almost unnatural. Vocals sound off like singing in a walk in closet. I always use vocals as the litmus test. Does it sound like the singer is a real person in front of you in the room. Tonality of vocals must be accurate. Thats why after buying your recommended class D amp XTZ i realized the vocals were missing depth, warmth, bass. Listening to Gregory Porter who has a deep voice it was revealing this amp couldnt capture the accuracy in vocal tones. It has nice separation and detail but it means it will lose out on fullness of instruments too like a cello where mid bass is important. What preamp will correct it? Schiit Freya?
If comparison include same price range big woofer speaker, it could be more interesting. That result is why I will never buy expensive two way small speaker. There is not enough quality difference for price difference. I rather buy mid priced big speaker rather than expensive small speaker.
A) bought way too much gear I don’t need B) now selling gear left right and centre C) eating more noodles lol
See your vids have a long life too!
Hi Thomas, I just buy a pair of Sansui TS-2000 from 1969. I am very happy they are like new, never modified. Absolutely originals. where can I replace the caps (crossovers) what brand do you recomend? they are 6 speakers 5 ways 8 ohms with alnico magnet. thanks for any comment.
Congrats. It depends if you are in Montreal or not.
@@ThomasAndStereo I live in Toronto. I can not go to Montreal at this time but do you have an idea what cap's brand would be good/hifi quality for this proyect?
1:44 an entire row of entry level. limited disparity.
Wine, art, food, movies, cars, fashion, music and especially women fall into this subject matter. If there were a best, then life would be pretty mediocre. Don't follow the trends, it's better to follow your heart and happiness shouldn't have a big price tag. Being contented is the key to a healthy life.
I'd really like to see a similar test with audiophiles doing a blind test with about 5 very different levels -- speakers that are 100K, 20K, 10K, 1K, $200.
This video spoke right to my heart! I too, as an old man on a fixed income, has mostly vintage gear, I have found in my journey that even the parameters of what I like have changed. As I have swapped out gear over the years, my definitions have become so different than what I thought they were. They have become much more refined. Once I find a piece of gear that I really fall in love with, it becomes easier to tailor other gear(some by listening to reviewers, some by trial and error) to my loved pieces. My system is getting very close to what I want it to be, and I have stopped caring about what others think of my choices, and just enjoy it, because it makes me happy! Thank you for your part in that journey!
Sounds awesome
You get what you paid for: expensive cabinets don’t necessarily confer better sound quality but you are paying for prettier cabinets and more exotic parts. What’s important to the consumer?
Thanks for your stories which are relatable and make listening to you even more interesting. If possible, never stop the stories.
Glad you like them!
Agreed.
Hi Thomas. Wonderful story. I ever say about a gear: 1) what some love others hate it, 2) no one can hear with each other's ears 3) At the end is your pocket that pays the bill, so choose by yourself matching your taste and your budget
I restarted my Audiophile path. I spent my money, and I continue to pursue better sound. I do not believe a certain dollar level buys you better performance since, there is no best but there is better - to a point. Based on your test, from what I can gather, if you were new to audio and wanted to start your path, you would have an extremely tough time when everything needs to match up to provide the best outcome. That is a lot of experimenting.
The Wharfdale is a giant killer. It will hang with speakers double its price. There is everything for everyone.
I am happy to see your audiophile friends can enjoy a conversation! Sadly, the few audiophiles I met were so close minded they became verbally agressive if I didn't agree with them. I wish people were more civil in sharing their opinion! Great video!
Owned the Cabasse minorca for about 5 years. It is a great speaker, especially when combined with a sub to handle the lower bass. I got it as I wanted the good aspects of the KEF Q300 (midrange/voices and imaging) and at the same time get as much as possible from what the Klipsch RB81 offered (liveliness, rhythm, low volume listening) in one speaker. The Minorca did a good job with that. Would it be great to see Thomas' take on its bigger brother, the Bora.
Link to my lastest KLH video: th-cam.com/video/uZtAQJfYMsU/w-d-xo.html
My new Patreon account: www.patreon.com/ThomasAndStereo
I think i found something! lol when you have time check out NODE
Wireless Multi-Room Hi-Res Music Streamer?
This past week I found a set of Transparent MusicWave Ultra 2516 cables in perfect condition, in a thrift store for $60.00. Do you have any idea how they rate in comparison to other Transparent cables, and do you have any idea of their original price?
Was that a 1 take !! Hell yeah !
Thanks Thomas but theirs so many formulas with audio ! Its crazyness !!
This Vidar amp throwing me for a loop !
I will email ya about it later on 😆
Also man will the U.S. get the Cabasse speakers ??? I am really interested in trying out !
Yeah, email and let me know. I will know about the Cabasse situation in a few weeks. Did you know Cabasse is actually a bigger company than Triangle?
@@ThomasAndStereo No i didn't know Canadian Co ? I do know candians build some awesome gear yeah would love to try out a pre1k standmount fron cabasse
You're on a roll, Thomas!! Both the last video and this one resonates so true. It's not clean and clear cut, but it is truth on how this all works in the end-and it's all in the details.
Keep up the streak!! 👍🙌💪
This question is hard to answer. I heard 10-30k € Systems wich are complete disappointing. Its all about the complete Setup & also Taste : Speaker, Roomacoustic, Source, EQ / Measurment... on the other hand: Quality & Development costs. You cant get a 4000€ worth peformance from a 500€ product. But at a price range above 2K €, the air is so thin that mostly taste matters and not quality.... *but i dont heard actual passive hifi products since years because i use studiomonitors - and i ,,arrived,, a long time ago ;-)... (important when the system goes closer to the 10k mark)
This was a wonderful speaker experiment and what emerged from it was an infinite set of quality factors. I guess that is what makes hi-fi such a joy. You do, however, need to pay extra $$$ for a speaker whose cabinet is well made and doesn’t produce vibration or resonance at peak volumes, it sounds just as good at low volume as well as high, has low impedance for increased sensitivity and the cones are made to withstand sharp rises and falls in dynamic range, delivering the music fast without fatigue. My speakers (Energy ESM 3) are now nearly 35 years old, purchased for $800AU in 1987. The only parts I had replaced 17 years ago were the woofers, which had deteriorated. The tweeters are still original! My ESM 3s still deliver a punchy sound and will faithfully render all the fine detail that my MC cartridge picks up from the vinyl on my Linn LP12.
Thank you for sharing your friend’s thoughts and yours. You sum up a collective ton of experience in a very easy to understand and relatable way. Much appreciated.
No fried fish in my system and I am vintage.
I think many people need to develop their ear and their taste a lot more than they think. Living with different sounding gear and speakers is crucial to your education haha. I've had a bunch but i don't think i can say what is number 1 to me, as i like different styles. Owning 3 at once is really where i need to be hahahha
I can’t agree more. Right now I have 4 systems… of which only 2 is kinda set up.. I planned to try and mix and match till I find what I like.. but I got sick and now the equipment had been gathering dust for 18 months…
(I went overboard while lying in hospital - bought a ton of stuff I couldn’t really afford AND without listening first) now I’m committed…
@@armoth6958 enjoy the journey, music has healing power!
I love to listen to your bed time stories every night. Haha! 😂
if there is a Nobel Prize for analytical assessment of audio equipment/gear, you would be a likely candidate.
Great insight. I, as a so-called much older audiophile, have changed my music parameters from once being critical and analytical to just listening to music for it's pure pleasure and enjoyment.
I do not believe in sound of amplifiers. The last one I bought is from 1984, I've listened to many after this: makes no sense replacing.
Speakers: only 2 way speakers are acceptable, and found out after some time only first order filtering is acceptable to me. Even exchanged more expensive speakers to 6bB/Oct even if they have a worse frequency response. If there's something wrong with phase: I hear it, it's unnatural.
The Wharfedale Diamond 225's are on my radar as a potential pairing with an SMSL AO300. Placement is about 1m from the front wall, which is curtained, and 1m from the concrete sidewalls. Listening at companionable levels (about 78-80dB), with hotel-bar piano jazz trios and quartets. Imaging is not a top priority but sound must be cohesive and a little PRAT'y. Would welcome any reactions.
Really enjoyed your video Thomas! Very informative! So many variables!.......so many !
Thanks for this video- really enjoyed it. I miss the days of my local hifi stores where we could just talk equipment for hours. Believe it or not, there are almost no high end stores left in the Silicon Valley and many of my purchases as based on TH-cam reviews. But agree, all based on taste and components and dare I say, cables. I prefer these days a much warmer sound that I can enjoy for hours. I’d rather test with Diana Krall versus the Sheffield Drum Record these days. And I’ve realized that what you love, is generally not what I gravitate to so I had to laugh about your comment about Mr Vintage.
DIY and saves. No need to buy.
Your concluding remarks sound reasonable, it's all personal tastes cos everyone ears are different. It's not maths, 1+1=2.
When audiophiles meet…. IMHO this is one of your best ideas! More more more!
Considering that each individual is exactly that...an individual with multi-physical differences, it should not be a surprise that even though we all have ears... it doesn't mean that everyone is on an equal hearing level. After all, does everyone see the same or wear the same corrective lenses... and if one wears glasses...it doesn't guarantee 20/20 vision or lack of distortion, does it? Even if the corrective lenses bring the eyes to a certain spec... one individual may have other variables like color blindness--and not even know it.
For myself, that is why I so much like the flexibility of fine tuning through active crossovers and the luxury of changing drivers that have the capabilities of fast response, low distortion, and the capability to create a soundstage of illusions that satisfy my discriminating hearing with what I perceive as detailed and with a musical timbre and balance that suits my listening enjoyment; consequently, when others listen to my speakers and come to the same conclusions or close... it is gratifying but not a necessity that they do... because at the end of the day, it is I, who must be able to listen to my taste of eccelectic music and enjoy it... feeling I got my money's worth. After all, I shouldn't expect others to have the same taste in listening artists or listening material... anymore than any "individual" should in choosing the house they live in or the car they drive. The utter snobbery and arrogance lies when someone feels or even demands uniformity or singularity of thought (political correctness) without the freedom of individual opinion and the right to differ without such statements becoming a "life or death" consequence owing to the egocentricities of a bigoted bully.
If there wasn't so many variables in life, there would by now be a definitive set of speakers along with their associated equipment...but there isn't a "one size fits all" and why should there be? There are good and logical reasons for such differences; therefore, what one person's criteria for listening to music, the format used, and the methods they listen to it... IS CORRECT for that individual...and if for you it sounds like an icepick in your ears or a boomy one note bass... be thankful you do not have to endure such pain or be forced to conform to their opinions and choices for you. 🙂
I agreed with everything you said in this video, especially when you said 'nailed it'
Enjoyed this one!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Identifying one's tastes is what the audiophile game is all about, but then again, that goes for pretty much everything no?
Yup 100%. When I first started my audio journey, it actually never crossed my mind, I thought all speakers are speakers, if that makes sense.
I hope people will take your advice about listening to the reviewer's description and not whether the reviewer gushes about finding true love. Especially those who make a good portion of their income from getting you to click those affiliate links. Don't fall for the hype. I think most of us would be interested to hear what the results of the test were.
I would love to see a video of $250 speakers compared to $10,000 + speakers. There are cello tests like that on TH-cam and l can easily tell the difference. A cheapest cello against a ten million dollar cello (and some in between).
I watch all the reviews, yet I do not plan on buying anything. I even watch the same review by a different reviewer just for kicks. Just love to see what's out there and opinions.
This is like the Harman test.. even the people who engineered the speakers didn't know it was their own speaker o.o
The simple truth and so well put.
I know what I want to hear and so chose my gear. But I stopped wanting it better and better long ago. It's a hopeless battle. As a choir conductor the best sound is in the acoustics of a building. Incomparable to any audio system, no where near.
🔊 What we so hardly need back…..is the old fashion analogue equalizers in our hifi-systems - I always love mine analogue equalizer -
Great video! So when are the Doge 8 review coming? I have long thought about Doge 8 + Purifi setup, do you think that is a good allround combo?
The combo is good. The review will take a while because there is no point to do it now as they have a waiting list.
I am fully with you. Taste and synergy of components are what make components the best _for you_!
From my early days until now, I am always astonished how, components dissappoint if I swap e.g. DACs of me and a friend of mine in our systems. We selected our components carefully to match our systems to meet our taste. He likes loud and lifelike dynamic forward presentation. And his system is impressive in this regard. I like natural tonality and effortless microdynamics and rythm. And my system does not disappoint. The astonishing point is that our favorite DAC made the others system perform worse which we both agreed.
Taste also depends on what you listen too. Audiophile equipment can destroy great music that was recorded and engineered for natural sound or vintage equipment. Vintage equipment has it's advantages. Audiophiles seem to be trying to make the equipment technically more accurate, but then it doesn't get the music. The Yamaha A-S1200 sounds more musical with the power cord it came with. Upgrading the power cord can be a mistake. The Amp may sound better with noisy power than clean power. If you have a good source, this Amp can sound very good and musical. It has more of a vintage sound.
"Upgrading" the power cord is just nuts.
Thomas needed a mic to drop at the end of this one. You did nail it.
Great video. Thomas, just curious, what was your favorite speaker from that test?
It was the Totem Sky.
“Nailed it“ 😄💪 Best mic drop
Thomas,
Have you ever auditioned a pair of BMR Philharmonic speakers? I am very interested in your opinion of these.
No I have not, perhaps one day.
Spend some 10 000Euros on speakers- apmp- preamp/dac
But mostly listening on Whaferdale Linton / Yamaha AS 701 integrated.....which costed me some 1700/ 1800 Euros.
10 000 Euros sounds realy good.....but only on loud listening, what is not possible for apartmants.
I think really well engineered amps and speakers works well with any gear. Money doesn't guarantee that. Room acoustics are more important than we would like to admit and we might try compensate it with throwing more money on equipment. That won't be fair for your hard earned money. I only listen music I love, not to analyze my set up. LP or CD, but I'm quite happy with TH-cam sound quality, too. Usually powered studio monitors for hard and heavy rock, distance ~2,4 m/ 8 ft. -After listening LPs and CDs with big speakers, switching to monitors they do sound small, hard to describe otherwise. But totally fine, when you start with them after a well slept night. Anyway, I'd like to add another pair of passive bookshelf hifi speakers like Kef, B&W or Harbeth.
Thank you, Thomas. I'm always learning from your videos - it's endless I think. Since I'm a newbie this video really hit home. I was starting to sense what you spoke about but you really captured the words and explained how I can take the information from a review that's pertinent to me.
I prefer content like this to gear reviews. The trouble with reviews is that without context it can be a bit make believe. Thanks a bunch!
I bought a 40 year old KEF Concerto for 10 bucks.... and give away my 1500 dollar worth Musical Fidelity.... Price do not justice quality
Thomas, my friend, should I replace my LS50s with Revel 126be speakers?
Not a bad idea with the playlist! One likes to listen to you, you’re good at thinking ;)
+5 points for automotive analogies :D
Jesus Christ, you Audiophiles need to start buying amps with tone controls ;) Let me tell you my story buying my first more expensive system. I tested a lot of amps for my LS50 Metas and disliked the sound with most of them. The one I knew quite quick I would keep was the Lyngdorf TDAI 1120. Why? Mainly because of Room Correction and the fully parametric EQ. Half a db bell dip with smallish Q in the mids to reduce the nosyness, half a db shelve boost in the bass to counter the roll off a bit - and room control to take care of some resonances - and I’m in heaven. I did, however, enjoy your video and I fully agree that there's a lot of personal taste involved in audio! Thx for the nice video! :)
I will never get tired of your audiophile stories because I know I will learn something from it. Keep up the good work Thomas. Cheers! 👍
$2200-1000 are the same price category. It will be more interesting to compare something from $5000 and $10000 categories. I bet the difference will be very obvious
Get you some PA speakers and studio monitors please cuz all they going to do is show you the millionaire stuff that your stuff will sound just as good all this song is PA cabinets remember loudspeakers PA cabinets are built better we can do the same job my house speakers don't cost me a minute and they're pioneers I got Sarah Vegas I got bows and I didn't pay a mess for them and they sell terrific so just don't keep looking at prices and names okay these are your affiliates of rich men who can waste more money than you think on looks.
Yes they paying your for the cabinet and the design of the cabinet then the speakers so please don't be deceived .
I use PV PA speakers with my stereo system.
Great video Thomas, couldn’t agree more with you on this.
Would have been interesting to included a floor-standing speaker in the line up ... for me even a cheap floor-stander
has certain strength's that no stand-mount regardless of cost can match ( scale ) and would have proven
the point of cost/performance
Any integrated Amp suggestion for the Cabasse MC170?
13 minutes for NOT showing the results? What's the point?
The labyrinthian world of hifi.. That once inside is so easy to go round in pleasantly strange sonic incremental circles....and sometimes leads some back to the beginning.
Hi, if i want to match an extetnal dac to these revel speakers, you suggest a neutral one?
Obviously, there are good buys in the audiophile world, like Schiit or Tekton, where you don't have to spend a lot to get good value, but in my experience over 20 years, the more I have spent, the better sound I have gotten.
All true, I agree. Good blind test too. Thanks.
Good job. I think taste is educated at the same time as the ears. Some systems, even cheaper ones, do that.
All great Audio food for thought. With price NOT the top criteria, it makes our individual audio journeys more FUN!
Just out of curiosity, I would love to have done this sort of listening test
You should! Just get a few speakers and get a few audiophile buddies over.
4 thumbs up! It's so good that I have to use my two toes to give you 4 thumbs up!
Great narrative and wise words..
I wish you were around when I started my audio journey.
You could have save me thousands Thomas!
I certainly hope, the younger ones among us take notice of your advice.
Greetings from Sydney. 🇦🇺
Within this price range I would say no generally speaking. But when you compare a 2k, 5k, 10k, 20k speaker then I would say that it generally gets much better.
You could argue both ways….and I do see your point.
On the other hand, I own both Polk LSIM707 and Dynaudio Heritage Specials and would say both speakers compete against much more expensive speakers.
@@gregorydijoseph5873 You are right.
@@RealHIFIHelp
I think we are both right. To find speakers like the examples I provided are more rare in audio. And most of the time it is easy to hear the differences between the ranges you described.
I once sat down in front of a proclaimed $60k system at an audio salon and thought the sound dreadful, utterly lifeless.
Then probably the synergy and/ or the setup wasn’t right!
@@bikemike1118 No shit 🤔
@@bikemike1118 People seem to get obsessed with background silence, that’s a mistake.
@@MWorsa really? No..! Shit 🥱
@@bikemike1118 😵💫
The speakers couldn’t tell the difference 😉 between them. That’s three…
Great video and so addresses the fundamental goal which is your subjective pleasure with the system.
hii man i would really really love to talk to you iu need help finding good audio equipment high end speakers
Good video but which speaker was picked by each audiophile?