Bengali cinema isnt B0llywood. Its another industry. It got Ruined when Bengali film industry got taken over by Producers from outside Bengal, who wiped away movies that resonated with Bengali audience and started making movies copied from Bollywood and South. The trend is still going on in Bengali film industry even though all that it has led to is bankruptcy of Bengali film industry.
Very brilliant take. Only solution I see in sight is to educate the audience about true cinema- and nearly from Indian cinema - 90% arises from Bengal from 50s to 60s. If we do our part well, as educators and audience who make it relevant to this generation - we will have done our job. Hence, I made this video to educate the indian audience.
No point in blaming nonBengalis! Bengal don't have the budget to compete with Bombay! Non-Bengali producers improved production value and backed films like recent Meghe Dhaka Tara, Nirbaak etc
The problem is Demand and supply. Majority of people who watch movies in cinema halls are middle class working population who just wants to relax on weekends after stressful days at work. They just want to turn off their brain and watch utter bs for entertainment. I'm sure there are people like you who would watch high quality content. I'm like you on this. But At the end of the day Producers needs profit. They don't care about Art or Movies
Hn to bhai Martin scorcese ki hai na vo favourite pure india ki nahi Favourite to uski killer of the flower moon bhi thi kya hua uska hogayi Naa disaster
Satyajit Ray was one of the most brilliant cinematic minds ever born in India, if not the very best. As a person who read his biography, I came to realize he was influenced by numerous American and European films, most notably Bicycle Thieves. However, even as a child, I realized that Ray's unique filmmaking involved telling stories that are an integral part of Indian culture, but the lens through which he portrayed them was definitely European. Take for example movies like Kanchenjunga or Charulata; they appear to be made in the modern era, even though they are 60 or 70 years old... The way in which Ray thought about cinema was very different, and that is why his work seemed like poetry in motion. Each and every sequence in a movie used to be powerful and poignant. While Nayak was a deep exploration of the protagonist's psychological depths, not all his movies were like that, but they all somehow deeply explored the inner worlds of their characters... Now coming to the mainstream Bollywood cinema... Bollywood explores themes like love, but it doesn't get into the more nuanced aspects of any emotion. Like if a man loves a woman, why does he do so? What attracted him to her in the first place? And if a character behaves in an unusual conflicting way, what is that person going through in his or her inner world? Love is not a one dimensional experience, it has numerous dimensions, social, economical, psychological, cultural, etc. In fact, there can be things that we don't talk about as they are taboo, but are a part of life nevertheless, but such things are not discussed in our movies. This lack of depth characterizes Bollywood, and as a result, most movies are grossly superficial. Now, it is true that not everyone in a country can appreciate movies with such depth and philosophical outlook, because to be able to do so, you have to have the mindset in the first place. A lot of people do not even want to, as they see movies only to lighten up their minds after a hard day's work. These days, I find that a lot of OTT content explores deeper complex issues and have more nuanced exploration of characters, but mainstream production houses in Bollywood do not prefer to take risks with theater releases as they feel they are going to lose their money. It is possible to combine artistic cinema with mainstream appeal; such efforts have been made by directors like Bernardo Bertolucci, Abdellatif Kechiche and of course Christopher Nolan. But yeah, there should be spaces for all kinds of stories to be told, as otherwise movies become extremely predictable and boring.
@@Zach-kf3uwif this was a problem, then why do people continue to watch these types movies? I dont think the entry scenes and escapism movies are bad, we just need to add more realism.
@@JanKut A good point. Not totally against mainstream movies as said in my video. The problem arises when it becomes the entirety of our cinema. Here’s the issue: In India, production houses often rely on the "trial room effect," sticking to safe formulas that guarantee box office success (ask yourselves how in the last 20 years, the box office hits had the same formula except for some exceptions). This stifles innovation and results in 97% of Indian cinema being escapist. In contrast, the West maintains a more balanced approach with about 50-60% escapism, allowing room for diverse storytelling and innovation.
@@JanKut Take a more recent example. Payal Kapadia's "As we Imagine as Light" won the grandest award at the grandest film festival (The Cannes) this year, and yet, the media portrayed mostly red carpet looks. If I was to ask you right now, what the big solution is- it's simply as we as audience to bring change. If people shift to incorporate wider range of cinema and appreciate movies beyond the escapist mindset, production houses will have to diverge and produce original content.
Two different factors might be at play here, 1. The educated middle class didn't evolve its aesthetical choices and moved past the escapism and hooliganism of Bollywood. (Everyone saw the aesthetical choice Ambanis made and they are the elites who set the tone) 2. Majority of the masses are not even middle class yet and so the movies try to appeal to sensibilities and curiosities of the poor. Just look at how rich characters are portrayed, they seem nothing like the ultra rich of the real world, but a figment of imagination of poor and middle class.
5:13 what a line! grey characters should be seen as exploration of human nature and not as endorsements of any particular behavior.. and the following line too
Current world audience thrashing movies and racing cancel culture such as on barbie, animal, etc is a sign that we as an audience are taking cinema as a template for life and creating unnecessary controversies,, while in reality, it is an art form- a visual storytelling medium. Major of the west has done a better job at understanding this, Indian audience, still struggle.
Bollywood just makes what the audiences want to watch and pay for.I dont think the box office was very generous to Ray's films back in the day.Its a business afterall
Bengal has numerous fine writers, stories and novels being churned even now, but what does bengali film industry do now? They try to imitate B0llywood and telugu films, instead of using the stories of their own writers. Why? Because the producers in Bengali film industry arent Bengalies and they dont want to risk money in stories resonating with Bengal but instead spend money on storylines that make money in B0llywood and Telugu films, grossly neglecting their own viewers, undermining the treasure trove they r sitting on.... Bengali film industry has begun Mindlessly following this model of imitating others for atleast since 2000s. And day by day the industry grew poorer and poorer. Then and now when some Original bengali films came out, it became blockbuster hit, but they still refuse to understand that they neednt follow B0llywood.
When bollywood make independent and excellent movies nobody watches and when it makes bad movie ,everyone come to attack like it is festival to celebrate.
Bimal Roy and Hrishikesh Mukherjee represent that era in Hindi cinema, Salim Javed were the balance of masala movies with fleshed out characters. The 80s and 90s had an influx of 'mass audiences' which made bollywood what it is today. Mass audiences simply cannot find connect with something a privileged NRI type filmmaker would produce.
India is missing from Indian cinema post-KJo era because he and SRK started targeting NRI audience and you'll find a difference after 1997 in Bollywood
Love it how you portray Ray as the high point and khan movies as the lowest point of Indian cinema. I am hopeful! Bollywood has reached such lows, now the only way left is upwards.
Good Points, well made video but I totally disagree. For first Bollywood is not Indian Cinema, it was perceived like that for the longest time but its changing now. The knack for great storytelling is still present in every industry, specially south and even in hindi time to time you get really good films. All this is irrespective of the Box office. The example of Oppenheimer is false notion as its an exception, Nolan is a star and a big driving force for the masses to know him is the Dark knight trilogy. He mastered the art of blending great storytelling with grand scale. Most Hollywood films ruling at Indian Box office are the big run of the mill commercial films and to compete you have to do the same. The debate is not what Bollywood is doing but what the audiences are watching, thats what defines the kind of films made. Truth of the world is a Jawan will always be a Blockbuster in front of a Ray film and that has nothing to do with merit, society at large need escapism and not artistic introspection. There will be always market for different films but all cannot have the same goals, end of the day Cinema is business whatever it may mean to an individual. It was RRR that got us our First Oscar for Indian Production since Ray's lifetime achievement award. Cinema is always evolving, if its the same than you are not doing enough. keep at making videos 👍
hmm I'd have appreciated what this video wanted to say had it been a bit less condescending. having grown up watching ray, Ritu ghosh and the likes, I am so used to people who enjoy Bengali cinema calling it "real cinema" and everything not good. don't get me wrong, ray is great but you can't put down Hindi cinema only to praise Bengali cinema. There are great gems of movies in Hindi cinema too starting from the golden era (watch anything by guru dutt) to movies directed by Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Vijay Anand, Gulzar, Sai Paranjpe and something as recently as chamkila released this year. An art work is not just "good" or "bad" imo. if it moves you or touches your heart, it is in fact good. I cry as much watching aparajito as I cry watching looters or kabuki Khushi kabhi gham and that is fine. commercial cinema is fine, art/ parallel cinema is fine. we shouldn't go around telling people what "good taste" is and what they should enjoy. If a girl is tired from office work and wants to go back home and watch shah rukh sing songs with a lady ghost Aishwarya on a mountain top, a girl should be able to without being judged. Also instead of looking back and trying to recreate another ray, we must always look forward and want to explore more. There's never going to be another ray, and that's okay. we were lucky enough to have one of him.
Good. points. I share your perspective. It’s crucial to acknowledge that cinema, in all its forms, offers a diverse range of experiences and values. I did not bash the entire Bollywood industry; my concern was specifically about when it becomes the sole narrative or the predominant influence, overshadowing the breadth of creativity that exists across genres and regions. I chose Bollywood as a focal point because of its significant influence on adjacent industries, but that doesn’t mean that the gems within Bollywood or any other cinema should be disregarded. There are are many remarkable films from the golden era to contemporary works, including those by Guru Dutt, Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Vijay Anand, Gulzar, Sai Paranjpe, and even recent ones like Chamkila (which all works I have watched and still took this take). Why? Because that still, is exceptional films if you look at the numbers, ranging being only 1-3% of our cinema. While Bollywood makes 97% of the cinema the old way. The west, on the other hand, does it only 50-60%. It's essential to embrace the diversity of tastes and experiences. If someone finds joy and relaxation in watching a Shah Rukh Khan film, that’s perfectly valid. There’s no need to impose a narrow definition of “good taste”, as I intended not to do, but to drive change we have to highlight differences, which I did. Just as I talked that it becomes a problem when "the mainstream becomes the problem when it becomes the entirety of Indian Cinema" (By entirety I meant (95%-97%, can fact check over prominent sources.) It’s almost like art can’t just be good in its own right without a snide comparison.
Also, if there weren't any good judges of "good tastes", film awards like Oscars and Palme D'Or, wouldn't exist.
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@@Zach-kf3uw sure! You made interesting point but had you taken the examples of recent movies like fighter, gadar 2, jawan, tiger 3 and animal while discussing "commercial, mainstream" cinema, I'd have agreed with you. That is not to say these are "bad" films, they are just not made for me. But when you bring up examples like ddlj, munna bhai, kal ho na ho which are by any standards, good movies with solid stories, well-defined character arcs that leave the audience with a feeling of satisfaction. even ek tha tiger has a good love story with well-defined characters (although poorly acted out) at the centre of its narrative. plus I don't think of the west/ Hollywood as some pinnacle in film-making. I don't think I have watched a Hollywood movie recently that affected me as emotionally as watching chamkila did. Korean, Japanese, Iranian movies definitely! Koreans make lovely romance dramas, comedies, Japanese make amazing horror, Iranians make really thought-provoking social dramas. Every cinema is shaped by the culture they represent, the society they come from. I do not know what American cinema represents... at one point sci-fi movies were very popular maybe because they were also leading in space tech and R&D. Nowadays, perhaps because their society is undergoing so much transformation so is their cinema trying to find its place? A similar thing can be observed here in Hindi mainstream cinema I feel. I think what Hindi movies know how to do and does well is capture emotions particularly "love" the best. South asians generally wear their heart on their sleeves and a lot of south asian culure is about love. One of the greatest epics from the subcontinent, Ramayana is about love and since time immemorial kings and queens and poets and philosophers and shayars and shayiras have been writing about love. For me no one can make romances as well Bollywood used to up until very recently (old Hollywood comes close). That's just my opinion. Thanks for listening to my thoughts.
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@@Zach-kf3uw I personally don't consider these awards a true judge of good cinema because they are heavily biased towards white/ western media pieces but sure, good point! Edit: that is not to say that the movies which win these awards are bad!! they are really good and deserve these awards for sure!!
You make good points, but I think the commercialization of Indian cinema has led to a focus on broad appeal at the expense of artistic depth. When we look at classic films like those by Satyajit Ray, they were deeply rooted in nuanced storytelling and emotional resonance. Mainstream hits like even Munna Bhai and Kal ho na ho, are often prioritizing spectacle over the kind of profound, reflective cinema. While Bollywood has its strengths, the shift towards commercial viability has overshadowed the richer, more artistic films that once defined Indian cinema.
There should be a space for all kinds of cinema. The challenge lies in the economics of cinema. You'll only get more of what sells (or what is forcibly sold because the execs feel they can piggyback a formula)
This is some amazing content. You have a very great understanding of movies and have referred Indian cinema more than 50 years back which reflects your sound knowledge of movies of that era.
Karnataka has had a very different course of cinema legacy. Around the 70s, directors like Puttanna Kanagal made commercial cinemas that can be easily 'categorised' into Art Films today. These were actually fusion cinemas that carried art forms to commercial success. Then came Shankar Nag (Malgudi Days director) who continued the legacy of fusion cinema. His untimely demise triggered the downfall of Kananda cinema when people unrelated to cinema took over the industry to turn their illegal money legal. The good thing is that the Kannada audience punished the industry with a tacit boycott and the industry has not been able to recover yet.
Great sur!! I appreciate it , thank you ❤❤, now I have found you as the same person who has the same mindset as of mine. You have spoken my heart out. May you live longer and succeed in life. Regards!!
Such movie that stayed with me for days after I watched it in theatre was a Tamil gem - Meiyazhagan. It touched my heart like no other fom had ever. It is such a heartwarming drama. I am glad I was able to catch it in Theatres as a resident in north India.
I guess... The major problem is not the style on which our movies are based but commercialisation of the plot... For example why our every big budget movie is not perfect because they usually lose the track from the lore and backdrop they set to a unnecessary trope for commercial audience because they think keeping it to the plot will not work in their favour... Example Kalki and Brahmastra... Kalki was a below average movie for me till the first half as they showed a holly jolly dystopia with Prabhas but when they started exploring the seriousness of the plot they are dealing with in the 2nd half it became something different... Whereas Brahmastra feels like a beautiful garbage because they didn't just influenced the movie with commercial elements and then move on to the real story like kalki but they rather made a commercial and safe movie in their pov by focusing on a poor lovestory than the lore they had
Popular cinema is not some demon, you always need commercial films to work to keep the industry alive. One of the reasons Satyajit Ray could make all those classics was that Uttam Kumar was dominating the bengali box office and bringing in the money. Since the time bengali commercial cinema lost its pull the bengali movie industry turned into a ghost of its glory days seldom producing anything worthwhile.
Good perspective. Here's where I find the problem- 1. I never bashed mainstream cinemas, clearly saying it becomes a problem when "it becomes the entirety of our cinema." The west has it around 50%-60%, while in India it is 95%-97%. 2. Satyajit Rays first film, "Pather Panchali" - the one currently by most people and directors, the greatest masterpiece ever - was funded by the West Bengal Govt. The only solution is to break the cycle and make the current generations realize what true cinema was-and could be- a visual storytelling medium- not confined by a set of formulas which is a current reality of Bollywood.
The reason why Bengali commercial film industry lost its pull is because since 2000s Bengali film industry has been taken over by Producers from outside Bengal, who spend money only on Remakes of B0llywood and South movies instead of spending money on original bengali stories. Very rarely Bengali stories get made into Movie in Bengal these days. 😀 The producers in Bengal dont give a dimes a&& about what the bengali audience will connect with. They assume since B0llywood and South movies are making big money, remaking them in Bengali would surely make them more richer. Never has it been more wrong.Bengali commercial film industry as a result has lost more viewers because of this "genius" strategy. And then and now when making a benagli detective novel movie brought them some money, all Bengali directors and producers started bandwagoning to produce the same genre in mass. 😂
Also, may i say, that Telugu industry wasnt producing any good movie just 2 decades ago. Yet their audience supported their film industry. They even demanded any film from Hollywood, Bollywood be translated into Telugu if they are to published in India. Bengalies inspite of being, 83% monolingual, and 2nd largest ethnicity didnt bother to make such demands. Translation itself could bring collaborations to Bengal, additional jobs to Bengal, and maybe inspire bengali masses to think and contemplate in their own langauge. But that didnt happen. Bengalies it seems lament more over their lost glory,blame others in their own community, than take the initiative to contemplate and act Swadesi like Tamil, Telugu, Malayali industries did. Instead of demanding that original bengali story be made, instead of demanding that Bengali movies be shown more in cinema theatres in Bengal, instead of demanding that Hollywood or bollywood moveis if screened in Bengal be translated into Bengali, what do the bengalies do?.... Lament over their own film industry, state, community. 😀 If Lamenting on ur own was the way to move ahead, there wouldnt be any "glorious" era in Bengal to begin with.
My message to bengalies is: grow out of ur outdated mentality to lament and belittle ur own community, state and instead focus on promoting them like how rest of the world is beginning to do now. Dont bengalies realise that their habit of lamenting and belittling their own state and community for decades as led to their decadence? There is something called Positive and negative reinforcements that Bengalies need to learn about.
@@Rahul_Singh100 Agreed. Only to influence global cinema culture in India is by looking inwards and realizing what masterpieces Ray put out and broadening the audience. We then will appreciate cinema without any boundaries.
I dislike how everyone is saying,well it's a sort of cinema that people could enjoy and etc. The problem is not making entertainment but the problem is just making entertaining mass cinema. Hollywood also loves money and churns out 1000s of popular entertaining films. But they also have produced many influential autuers and art films over the years. For Bollywood the concept of 'art' or 'autuer' doesn't exist. It's all just a vapid money making machine that only cares for money unlike Hollywood which once in a while would make great artistic cinema.
I think it is such a shallow view of "Indian Cinema". And the audacity to claim Bollywood, a film industry in Mumbai has the influence to bring upon Crisis in Indian Cinema. Commercialization has always been the case, in the US they have the Marvel movies and banking on nostalgia films. Pather Panchali was made in the 50s. The crew were inexperience and Ray was flat out broke. There was no concept of marketing, pre globalization mind you. Ray relied on the State Government. And notably in Bengali language. The only people who could market popular films are the rich businesses who have to break even else they sink. Indian Cinema is Thriving today, better than ever. Satyajit Ray is the past. A very integral part of the past.
Oh, absolutely, because we all know that the recent Oscar winners like Everything Everywhere All at Once, Oppenheimer and Parasite are just the pinnacle of deep, reflective cinema, right? Clearly, the fact that Bollywood's commercialization could influence Indian cinema is laughable, right? Especially when the Marvel and nostalgia-driven films in the US have always been paragons of artistic purity. And yes, Ray’s struggles and innovations are just quaint historical footnotes. After all, who needs the introspection and nuanced storytelling of the past when we’ve got today’s thriving industry and its box office blockbusters which are nothing but formulaic?
@@Zach-kf3uw You are conflating two different things. Cinema is no big deal. It is just a movie in the end of the day. A product. An experience, a service. Blockbusters are popular because common Indian wants to wind down and chill. But that does not mean everything is formulaic. The films that you are talking about has a very small viewer base. And they exist in different regions in India. We have National award winning films. Some great films from South India as well as OTT platforms. These are all Indian films. The problems we people face daily are systemic issues, that introspection does very little to help. Rather some great films have taken the route of satire, and humor. Popular Bollywood films do not speak for the entire country. Good films in India are to this day recognized overseas. Just like Marvel films of the US do not speak for all the films coming from America. The deep reflective cinema that you yearn for exists. But not the way you expect it to be. Satyajit Ray is dead. Nobody can replace him, or copy him. People have drawn their inspiration from him. Saying Bollywood ruined Cinema is outright Slander. This country is big and diverse and has many stories that it tells. Today, people want to see the social evils be addressed, Crime, caste discrimination, gender discrimination. And we have those films that address these. Both in North Films and South Films. Edit: corrections
@@Nitin-hh9li Ah, so cinema is just a "product" now-how refreshing! And yes, of course, every deep, reflective film is a niche market while blockbuster clichés reign supreme. But hey, if you think Bollywood’s glossy escapism is the pinnacle of diversity, I’m sure that our own National Awards (with their controversial contrary entry to oscars) and global recognition are just minor details.
@Zach-kf3uw look you're clearly a film student of some kind. Make a deep reflective film yourself. Hating on bollywood doesn't make sense. They're not stopping anyone from making movies
Bollywood had the greater influence, influencing every other film industry around it, creating the ripple effect. Hence, it's prevalent to understand the root cause rather than hate or sidelining the topic.
Oh, absolutely because west bengal just woke up one day and decided "You know what? Let's ruin Bengali cinema!" And Tollywood? Clearly, its entire mission was to make sure Telugu cinema didn't stand a chance. It's not like there are any complex socio-economic factors, evolving audience preferences, or the influence of globalization at play. Nope, just pure sabotage.
@@Zach-kf3uw They were also entertaining. Movies like the Joker are a treat to watch, it's not a boring documentary of an insane man. It takes a popular comic character, an amazing actor and a great story, to make it entertaining, not just "bjdhdskos nuanced". I don't think Bollywood sucks or anything. It works and it's entertaining. There are movies which are art and entertaining.
Actually bengali cinema is still reviving because from the period of 2000s to 2015 bengali industry has remaked every possible telugu tamil movie action movies which were liked by audience initially but after 2016 audience completely rejected it and now young audiences have lost their faith in bengali commercial cinema But still some stars are doing great and still bengali cinema is offering good content
If you are comparing todays Bollywood with Satyajit Ray's films that's total incorrect. Either you must compare Satyajit's films with todays Bangali cinema or compare todays Bollywood with older hindi movies. All the problems you mentioned for Bollywood are relevant for all film industries in India.
You had me with you till you mentioned films like Rockstar and Tamasha. I mean. I'm all for nuanced storytelling, but Rockstar, Tamasha, Yjhd etc, being celebrated for being nuanced is such a joke to me. Rockstar had a paper thin plot and Jordan's character arc heavily feels like dues ex machina relying heavily on the trope that pain produces great music instead of actually focussing on his growth as an artist but no, having his heart broken alone was enough to suddenly for people to see his talent. Plus, the film is heavily laden with poetry that is great, deep, reflective but just doesn't fit with the film and is used to fool people. Pyaasa is a far superior film about an artist struggling to fit and find his space, doesn't rely on trial room effects as you say and most of all is actually reflective rather than just trying to create the illusion that it is.
@@ansharora2231i have seen all of Guru Datts films so making an oh so obvious prejudice about what I haven’t watched is unjust. Again, when we do compare in terms of filmmakers I do think Imtiaz, Anurag, etc hold the same opinion compared to commercial cinema, as well when Imtiaz makes a so what commercial film- its not comparable to any commercial film available. That is what happened with Ray and the film bicycle thieves.
@@ansharora2231again to add on to ur point of gangs of wasseypur, it has gained popularity, no doubt, but over the years, same with that of rockstar and tamasha, and with udaan, swadesh, etc, and neglecting these voices is a pessimistic view of artistic cinema in general in the last two decades only. 😊
@@mayankkumar855 Again, popularity isn't. a marker of anything really. Great films become popular, terrible films become popular, it means nothing. You can perform whatever mental gymnastics you want, but Rockstar, Tamasha are very flawed films and don't have the depth that people like you want to perceive them in for some reason. Using poetry in the narrative, or unnecessary ornamentation with urdu dialouges doesn't add depth and only pretentious artsy people get fooled by these things. Udaan is far nuanced a film than Tamasha. Rockstar is what it is because of AR Rahman's music. Take it out and Rockstar is barely average. And the fact that you say you have watched Kaagaz Ke Phool and yet think Rockstar is a good and nuanced take on a struggling artist, shows how you don't understand nuance all that well.
Check out the criterion collection. it has all ray's movies with subtitles and were the ones to literally save/restore our masterpieces. Check my other video for more context - th-cam.com/video/iPYfzQ4PJi4/w-d-xo.html
First and last step to any cinema is know what you want, know who you are, question and think about it, then write whatever comes into your mind, instead of watching other directors and people as cinema is ones consiouness itself portayed like a drawing you do on a blank sheet
Commercial movies will continue to be made according to the general taste of the common people no matter how rubbish it may seem to you, The good thing is there are still plenty of good quality films being made in our country,but dont get the deserved popularity because of finance and the same old public taste So bollywood as a whole cant be generalized as a factory for masala movies Definitely hindi movies have much more viewers in india compared to other regional language movies but that doesn't mean it ruined cinema Cinema doesn't just mean deep art films or realistic parallel cinema It can also be illogical light weight just for fun and pressure release Which is extremely important for indian people who are continuously under stress in their everyday life
L take, Bollywood didn't ruin it... audience did. Not everyone looks for art, most look for entertainment and what can be sold.... is made. [commercial films with usual tropes] . Though, this does not mean the artsy films dont exist. There have been films over the years that could have provoked audience yet it flopped. Ain't nobody making films that would flop forever... also the simple tropes you told, not every film need complex dialogues... simple yet charming stuff attracts... If you look for complexity good for you, but that dont give you a right to say everything else ruins indian cinema... maybe you've seen it for ever and it numbed you but those have a charm[not all mainstream ones, some are total cash grabbers].
i ain't demeaning your pov, its just complexity does not usually mean its better, maybe the simplicity in sotryline is a charm or maybe the copied plotline with creative dialogue and perfect comic timing is a charm... not everyone needs a life awakening storyline or a thought provoking dialogue to remember for ever.
@@Hxrshfr Thanks for your point of view. I have watched works (mostly every work) of all directors you mentioned and no doubt, they are influential. For this topic, I chose Ray, because he still is the most influential in global cinema (regardless of what anyone says, if you ask anyone from around the world who the greatest filmmakers are, they are bound to mention ray, except people from India.) but also, ask yourself, Isn’t it hilarious how what we often imagine as “high art” in cinema, like the Grand Prix-winning films at Cannes (this time from India), barely get a mention compared to the red carpet looks of so-called big stars? It’s almost as if the true depth of cinema is overshadowed by superficial glamour. The cycle continues because people flock to what’s flashy and familiar, but moreover by what is pushed by Bollywood, than seeking out and supporting films that push artistic boundaries. If we want to change this, we need to start watching and championing those true cinematic gems ourselves. Only then can we shift the focus from glitter to genuine storytelling. This was the true purpose of my video and why I mentioned ray as my subject (as he is the best director India gave us, and India never cared to realize.)
@@Zach-kf3uwMe too, Ray is one of the best directors in India. Commercial failures are often not even watched until 5-10 years and then the audience will dckride it saying "indian audience of past was terrible to miss it out" while doing the exact same with the current films. I see no one talking about bhakshak's no nonsense focusing on muzaffarpur's case... or Laapata Ladies[during its run] gaining the required audience to appreciate its message about women empowerment. Even now it is appreciated for it love angle and not for trying to empower them women..... Dange coming up with a college storyline with college politics and lot of sub plot angles concluding into one of the best fight sequence in Indian movie was given no appreciation....Dedh bigha zameen was given no appreciation for its realism....Kill despite elevating in the action genre was given only a little appreciation.... it is sad to see that little different storyline flops or aint talked about... creative freedom is taken when you watch them... adience is plain mid here.... malayalam audience watches the movies... they accept the variety actors bring... but north never accepted Ajay Devgan,John Abraham and others for the variety they showed. you're right, audience got to change. the cinema will change in itself...all films above had little or lot artistic freedom yet did no good ... makes me wonder how pushing artistic boundaries will end the cycle. a lot do watch the cinematic films, but the numbers aint close to the ones watching generic stuff,i mean not everyone has the time to immerse into artistic stuff... some just want to be entertained... Also,Check Sanivaaram Saripodhaa in theatre if you want , in original language, despite a hero villian cliche angle, that film has something more to it. The whole film revolves around "What is true anger?"... One of the recent films that hit me!
@@Hxrshfr Thank you! I was glad to even change one perspective and align with changing audiences in India. I have the film you speak of in my watchlist (which I dont let last more than 2 days ahaha). Watch "all we imagine as light", by Payal Kapadia, releasing in Nov, it has already won the grandest award at the Cannes (the Grand Prix). If we dont bring the change as audience, no one will!
Why blame bollywood. Why didn't bengal Cinematic verse continued on Satyajit Ray's path if it were so meaningful. Entire content and title is clickbait. Have you seen bengali movies ad their content. It is much worse. Pretty sure 50% of today's bengali youth didnt watch Satyajit Rays movie. Or worse.. 90% of them.
Ah, yes, let’s just ignore the massive influence Bollywood’s commercial formula has had on every industry and pin it all on the lack of Satyajit Ray enthusiasts. Because clearly, the failure to keep a legacy alive is entirely the fault of a generation that didn’t watch enough classic films, right? On a serious note. Bollywood's dominance and commercialization have indeed had a ripple effect, influencing other industries and leading to a focus on more mainstream, escapist content. While it’s true that many young viewers may not be familiar with Ray's work, it’s also important to recognize how industry trends shape audience preferences. The aim of the video is to explore these dynamics and highlight the importance of rediscovering and valuing diverse cinematic styles for future generations.
@@Zach-kf3uw Audience shape industry and not the other way around. Yes Bollywood has it's effect but in many spheres it didn't. wanna blame everything on bollywood is just for clickbait and not doing anything concrete about it. Why is the bengali cinema and soaps so terrible. It's worse than bollywood and soaps. Have you even seen it or you are so cool to even watch those.
@@bidsvon6379 Understood your point, but it's not just my perspective-many agree that Bollywood's overwhelming influence has significantly shaped the current state of various regional cinemas, including Bengali cinema. Bollywood's commercial success has set a standard that pressures other industries to follow suit, often at the expense of innovation and depth. If they don't, they are likely to fail at their expense of their whole existence. This isn't about blaming Bollywood but recognizing how its dominance has created a ripple effect, leading to less compelling content in other sectors. If you look at Bengali cinema now, the decline in its quality and originality can be partially (moreover mostly) attributed to this influence. Acknowledging this context is crucial for understanding how to support and revitalize regional cinema.
@@Zach-kf3uw Bollywood didn't became a success overnight. Bollywood didn't have a influence during Satyajit Ray's time like it has now. What happened after Satyajit Ray's era in Bengal Cinema. During 60s and 70s bollywood ad regional film industries were at par. At that time, bengal cineverse should have Incorporated Satyajit Ray's values but it didn't. That's where they miss it and not bollywood. Today's perspective cannot whitewash the mistakes of past. Bollywood got it's success formula in 90s only not before that where it started churning out mass produced films quantity over quality. Fault lies in bengal film industry and whoever were there in that from 50s to 80s
@@bidsvon6379 Sure, it’s easy to blame Bengal cinema for not following Ray’s lead while ignoring that Bollywood’s success formula in the 90s was just a masterpiece of mass-produced mediocrity. Let’s not forget, Bollywood didn’t exactly excel in quality before discovering its magic formula either. So maybe it’s not just Bengal cinema that missed the mark; it’s a broader industry trend we’re talking about.
Bollywood is indian cinema. Bengali cinema is indian cinema. When you compare within that context, you bring the things that went wrong and the things that went right (Satyajit Ray was right all along), so that light on him, deserves to be there.
@@mayankkumar855 bengali cinema shows the art, other hand bollywood is money making machine with 80% crap, But still people loves it, i don't blame anyone, its rush rush life and everyone got enough time to appreciate every form of art. but still i don't think its right to compare satyajit ray to bollywood straight away. plus the change comes with us (audience). if we don't support bollywoods brainless project, they might start making good , realistic & content based movies. then you can compare. which is far away task
Remember, no matter what anyone says - movies are always first a form of entertainment and then an art form. The problem that is happening with Bollywood currently isn't what we consider as 'commercialization' or 'predictable'. All the stories in the world can be boiled down to similar summaries. It is the formulaic and monotonous the movies have become. An industry making just art cinemas again and again will be equally as bad. One can't judge another person on the movie he likes and tell him that what he likes isn't 'Cinema' (but you can judge a person based on the movie he DOESN'T like).
I love Satyajit Ray. Have watched all his movies although I don’t understand Bengali. Can’t stand Bollywood, cheap entertainment and a symbol of decline of society and values.
@@raja-jl9os Cinema is a "Visual Storytelling" Medium. It uses visuals and sound to explore complex themes in a way that can evoke immediate and powerful emotional responses. Scenes featuring difficult subjects like violence or intimacy are integral to this process, helping to create a more immersive and impactful narrative. Criticizing films for these elements overlooks their artistic purpose. Just as novels use words (as novels are written storytelling medium) to delve into complex ideas, films use visual and auditory storytelling to achieve the same effect. These scenes are meant to provoke thought, empathy and character analysis, enriching the overall story. Understanding that both mediums have unique ways of exploring themes helps us appreciate the different methods of storytelling. Films confront challenging topics to engage viewers deeply and reflect on real human experiences.
@@raja-jl9os Funny how some criticize Satyajit Ray, yet Audrey Hepburn and Meryl Streep praised Satyajit Ray for his portrayal of women, calling it "the best handling of female characters in any movies ever made." Guess some people might need to revisit their roots!
Bollywood mein har saal acchi filmein bnti hai par koi nahi dekhta unhe laapata ladies aayi thi abhi uska kya hua theatre mein sabko pata hai Yahan galti bollywood ki nahi audience ki hai Apne bubble se bahar niklega to pata lagega tujhe india ke baare mein har koi tere jaisa samajhdaar thodi hai 100 mein se 90% janta anpadh hai Aur baat kare ott subscription ki to bahi mere jyadatar log illegal movie download karte hai
i am sorry art film jaise look de dene se koi film art film nahi ban jaati. Laapata ladies bahut hi bekar film thi, jo Kiran Rao ne banaya tha gaon ke jeewan par. Kiran Rao ek din bhi apne life main gaon main rahi hain! bekar movie banaoge to kaun jayega theatre main
I do not think that as a society we have reached the point where we wish to explore nuances of emotion or deep philosophical musings. Our stressful lives and the unpredictability of Indian life makes it so that when we are being entertained, we crave simplistic, frivolous fare, something to take our mind away from the humdrum of life. In my own experience, as a youth, I loved to discover thoughtful cinema, love to ponder over the intricacies of what might have gone into making this movie including the script, nuances of cinematography etc. Later on though, as the responsibilities of a householder took over, even though my sensibilities have not changed, I realize that I do not have much time for deep, thoughtful Cinema. Therefore my choices are to either completely forgo cinema, or to engage in fare that is commonly consumed. If I do watch something like the ship of Theseus, it is usually piecemeal and over a span of many days, so that I have enough time to watch the movie once, and then go over it again bit by bit to ruminate. I guess we can see why simple-minded, thoughtless movies get consumed on such a large scale in India and thought-provoking movies get pushed to the wayside.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Bengali cinema isnt B0llywood. Its another industry. It got Ruined when Bengali film industry got taken over by Producers from outside Bengal, who wiped away movies that resonated with Bengali audience and started making movies copied from Bollywood and South. The trend is still going on in Bengali film industry even though all that it has led to is bankruptcy of Bengali film industry.
Very brilliant take. Only solution I see in sight is to educate the audience about true cinema- and nearly from Indian cinema - 90% arises from Bengal from 50s to 60s. If we do our part well, as educators and audience who make it relevant to this generation - we will have done our job. Hence, I made this video to educate the indian audience.
No point in blaming nonBengalis! Bengal don't have the budget to compete with Bombay! Non-Bengali producers improved production value and backed films like recent Meghe Dhaka Tara, Nirbaak etc
@@debjyotimandal6661 If we from india don't recognize our gems, who will?
@@Zach-kf3uw TH-camrs like you can help by reviewing
The problem is Demand and supply. Majority of people who watch movies in cinema halls are middle class working population who just wants to relax on weekends after stressful days at work. They just want to turn off their brain and watch utter bs for entertainment. I'm sure there are people like you who would watch high quality content. I'm like you on this. But At the end of the day Producers needs profit. They don't care about Art or Movies
Martin Scorcese once said: "Pather Panchali is my favorite movie." That's all I can say.
Hn to bhai Martin scorcese ki hai na vo favourite pure india ki nahi
Favourite to uski killer of the flower moon bhi thi kya hua uska hogayi Naa disaster
Satyajit Ray was one of the most brilliant cinematic minds ever born in India, if not the very best. As a person who read his biography, I came to realize he was influenced by numerous American and European films, most notably Bicycle Thieves. However, even as a child, I realized that Ray's unique filmmaking involved telling stories that are an integral part of Indian culture, but the lens through which he portrayed them was definitely European. Take for example movies like Kanchenjunga or Charulata; they appear to be made in the modern era, even though they are 60 or 70 years old... The way in which Ray thought about cinema was very different, and that is why his work seemed like poetry in motion. Each and every sequence in a movie used to be powerful and poignant. While Nayak was a deep exploration of the protagonist's psychological depths, not all his movies were like that, but they all somehow deeply explored the inner worlds of their characters... Now coming to the mainstream Bollywood cinema... Bollywood explores themes like love, but it doesn't get into the more nuanced aspects of any emotion. Like if a man loves a woman, why does he do so? What attracted him to her in the first place? And if a character behaves in an unusual conflicting way, what is that person going through in his or her inner world? Love is not a one dimensional experience, it has numerous dimensions, social, economical, psychological, cultural, etc. In fact, there can be things that we don't talk about as they are taboo, but are a part of life nevertheless, but such things are not discussed in our movies. This lack of depth characterizes Bollywood, and as a result, most movies are grossly superficial. Now, it is true that not everyone in a country can appreciate movies with such depth and philosophical outlook, because to be able to do so, you have to have the mindset in the first place. A lot of people do not even want to, as they see movies only to lighten up their minds after a hard day's work. These days, I find that a lot of OTT content explores deeper complex issues and have more nuanced exploration of characters, but mainstream production houses in Bollywood do not prefer to take risks with theater releases as they feel they are going to lose their money. It is possible to combine artistic cinema with mainstream appeal; such efforts have been made by directors like Bernardo Bertolucci, Abdellatif Kechiche and of course Christopher Nolan. But yeah, there should be spaces for all kinds of stories to be told, as otherwise movies become extremely predictable and boring.
From another point of view, Bollywood did not ruin Indian Cinema. It gave Indian audience cinema they would pay to watch...
Ah, yes, Bollywood’s gift of endless remakes and escapism movies, with huge entry scenes and no substance -truly the pinnacle of cinematic evolution!
@@Zach-kf3uwif this was a problem, then why do people continue to watch these types movies? I dont think the entry scenes and escapism movies are bad, we just need to add more realism.
@@JanKut A good point. Not totally against mainstream movies as said in my video. The problem arises when it becomes the entirety of our cinema. Here’s the issue: In India, production houses often rely on the "trial room effect," sticking to safe formulas that guarantee box office success (ask yourselves how in the last 20 years, the box office hits had the same formula except for some exceptions). This stifles innovation and results in 97% of Indian cinema being escapist. In contrast, the West maintains a more balanced approach with about 50-60% escapism, allowing room for diverse storytelling and innovation.
@@JanKut Take a more recent example. Payal Kapadia's "As we Imagine as Light" won the grandest award at the grandest film festival (The Cannes) this year, and yet, the media portrayed mostly red carpet looks. If I was to ask you right now, what the big solution is- it's simply as we as audience to bring change. If people shift to incorporate wider range of cinema and appreciate movies beyond the escapist mindset, production houses will have to diverge and produce original content.
Two different factors might be at play here,
1. The educated middle class didn't evolve its aesthetical choices and moved past the escapism and hooliganism of Bollywood. (Everyone saw the aesthetical choice Ambanis made and they are the elites who set the tone)
2. Majority of the masses are not even middle class yet and so the movies try to appeal to sensibilities and curiosities of the poor. Just look at how rich characters are portrayed, they seem nothing like the ultra rich of the real world, but a figment of imagination of poor and middle class.
5:13 what a line! grey characters should be seen as exploration of human nature and not as endorsements of any particular behavior.. and the following line too
Current world audience thrashing movies and racing cancel culture such as on barbie, animal, etc is a sign that we as an audience are taking cinema as a template for life and creating unnecessary controversies,, while in reality, it is an art form- a visual storytelling medium. Major of the west has done a better job at understanding this, Indian audience, still struggle.
Bollywood just makes what the audiences want to watch and pay for.I dont think the box office was very generous to Ray's films back in the day.Its a business afterall
Reduce your background noise to 5-10% and make a reel on this it will gain more traction.
I am more likely to watch Ray’s film now more than ever.
Bengal has numerous fine writers, stories and novels being churned even now, but what does bengali film industry do now? They try to imitate B0llywood and telugu films, instead of using the stories of their own writers. Why? Because the producers in Bengali film industry arent Bengalies and they dont want to risk money in stories resonating with Bengal but instead spend money on storylines that make money in B0llywood and Telugu films, grossly neglecting their own viewers, undermining the treasure trove they r sitting on.... Bengali film industry has begun Mindlessly following this model of imitating others for atleast since 2000s. And day by day the industry grew poorer and poorer. Then and now when some Original bengali films came out, it became blockbuster hit, but they still refuse to understand that they neednt follow B0llywood.
Couldn't have said it better. Thank you for offering your perspective and deepening my take for my video.
When bollywood make independent and excellent movies nobody watches and when it makes bad movie ,everyone come to attack like it is festival to celebrate.
I kind of assume as it should; thats the duality we need to change, not how we bring the issues to light.
@@mayankkumar855 mughal azam and mother india both are proper masala movie
bro, reduce the background music can't hear what you are saying, but a good video
Bimal Roy and Hrishikesh Mukherjee represent that era in Hindi cinema, Salim Javed were the balance of masala movies with fleshed out characters. The 80s and 90s had an influx of 'mass audiences' which made bollywood what it is today. Mass audiences simply cannot find connect with something a privileged NRI type filmmaker would produce.
India is missing from Indian cinema post-KJo era because he and SRK started targeting NRI audience and you'll find a difference after 1997 in Bollywood
@@leodas910 That's mainstream bollywood for you. There is a phase and space for all kinds of films.
So mass audience can connect with Salman Khan jumping off a 6 storey building and defeating 50 guys by himself. Lol!!!
Love it how you portray Ray as the high point and khan movies as the lowest point of Indian cinema. I am hopeful! Bollywood has reached such lows, now the only way left is upwards.
Human stupidity has no limits 😅
I am a simple man. The moment I see Satyajit Ray I click on the video.
Great video though.
Keep it up.
Good Points, well made video but I totally disagree. For first Bollywood is not Indian Cinema, it was perceived like that for the longest time but its changing now. The knack for great storytelling is still present in every industry, specially south and even in hindi time to time you get really good films. All this is irrespective of the Box office. The example of Oppenheimer is false notion as its an exception, Nolan is a star and a big driving force for the masses to know him is the Dark knight trilogy. He mastered the art of blending great storytelling with grand scale. Most Hollywood films ruling at Indian Box office are the big run of the mill commercial films and to compete you have to do the same. The debate is not what Bollywood is doing but what the audiences are watching, thats what defines the kind of films made. Truth of the world is a Jawan will always be a Blockbuster in front of a Ray film and that has nothing to do with merit, society at large need escapism and not artistic introspection. There will be always market for different films but all cannot have the same goals, end of the day Cinema is business whatever it may mean to an individual. It was RRR that got us our First Oscar for Indian Production since Ray's lifetime achievement award. Cinema is always evolving, if its the same than you are not doing enough.
keep at making videos 👍
Hehe
hmm I'd have appreciated what this video wanted to say had it been a bit less condescending. having grown up watching ray, Ritu ghosh and the likes, I am so used to people who enjoy Bengali cinema calling it "real cinema" and everything not good. don't get me wrong, ray is great but you can't put down Hindi cinema only to praise Bengali cinema. There are great gems of movies in Hindi cinema too starting from the golden era (watch anything by guru dutt) to movies directed by Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Vijay Anand, Gulzar, Sai Paranjpe and something as recently as chamkila released this year. An art work is not just "good" or "bad" imo. if it moves you or touches your heart, it is in fact good. I cry as much watching aparajito as I cry watching looters or kabuki Khushi kabhi gham and that is fine. commercial cinema is fine, art/ parallel cinema is fine. we shouldn't go around telling people what "good taste" is and what they should enjoy. If a girl is tired from office work and wants to go back home and watch shah rukh sing songs with a lady ghost Aishwarya on a mountain top, a girl should be able to without being judged. Also instead of looking back and trying to recreate another ray, we must always look forward and want to explore more. There's never going to be another ray, and that's okay. we were lucky enough to have one of him.
Good. points. I share your perspective. It’s crucial to acknowledge that cinema, in all its forms, offers a diverse range of experiences and values. I did not bash the entire Bollywood industry; my concern was specifically about when it becomes the sole narrative or the predominant influence, overshadowing the breadth of creativity that exists across genres and regions.
I chose Bollywood as a focal point because of its significant influence on adjacent industries, but that doesn’t mean that the gems within Bollywood or any other cinema should be disregarded. There are are many remarkable films from the golden era to contemporary works, including those by Guru Dutt, Hrishikesh Mukherjee, Vijay Anand, Gulzar, Sai Paranjpe, and even recent ones like Chamkila (which all works I have watched and still took this take). Why?
Because that still, is exceptional films if you look at the numbers, ranging being only 1-3% of our cinema. While Bollywood makes 97% of the cinema the old way. The west, on the other hand, does it only 50-60%.
It's essential to embrace the diversity of tastes and experiences. If someone finds joy and relaxation in watching a Shah Rukh Khan film, that’s perfectly valid. There’s no need to impose a narrow definition of “good taste”, as I intended not to do, but to drive change we have to highlight differences, which I did. Just as I talked that it becomes a problem when "the mainstream becomes the problem when it becomes the entirety of Indian Cinema" (By entirety I meant (95%-97%, can fact check over prominent sources.)
It’s almost like art can’t just be good in its own right without a snide comparison.
Also, if there weren't any good judges of "good tastes", film awards like Oscars and Palme D'Or, wouldn't exist.
@@Zach-kf3uw sure! You made interesting point but had you taken the examples of recent movies like fighter, gadar 2, jawan, tiger 3 and animal while discussing "commercial, mainstream" cinema, I'd have agreed with you. That is not to say these are "bad" films, they are just not made for me. But when you bring up examples like ddlj, munna bhai, kal ho na ho which are by any standards, good movies with solid stories, well-defined character arcs that leave the audience with a feeling of satisfaction. even ek tha tiger has a good love story with well-defined characters (although poorly acted out) at the centre of its narrative. plus I don't think of the west/ Hollywood as some pinnacle in film-making. I don't think I have watched a Hollywood movie recently that affected me as emotionally as watching chamkila did. Korean, Japanese, Iranian movies definitely! Koreans make lovely romance dramas, comedies, Japanese make amazing horror, Iranians make really thought-provoking social dramas. Every cinema is shaped by the culture they represent, the society they come from. I do not know what American cinema represents... at one point sci-fi movies were very popular maybe because they were also leading in space tech and R&D. Nowadays, perhaps because their society is undergoing so much transformation so is their cinema trying to find its place? A similar thing can be observed here in Hindi mainstream cinema I feel.
I think what Hindi movies know how to do and does well is capture emotions particularly "love" the best. South asians generally wear their heart on their sleeves and a lot of south asian culure is about love. One of the greatest epics from the subcontinent, Ramayana is about love and since time immemorial kings and queens and poets and philosophers and shayars and shayiras have been writing about love. For me no one can make romances as well Bollywood used to up until very recently (old Hollywood comes close). That's just my opinion. Thanks for listening to my thoughts.
@@Zach-kf3uw I personally don't consider these awards a true judge of good cinema because they are heavily biased towards white/ western media pieces but sure, good point! Edit: that is not to say that the movies which win these awards are bad!! they are really good and deserve these awards for sure!!
You make good points, but I think the commercialization of Indian cinema has led to a focus on broad appeal at the expense of artistic depth.
When we look at classic films like those by Satyajit Ray, they were deeply rooted in nuanced storytelling and emotional resonance.
Mainstream hits like even Munna Bhai and Kal ho na ho, are often prioritizing spectacle over the kind of profound, reflective cinema.
While Bollywood has its strengths, the shift towards commercial viability has overshadowed the richer, more artistic films that once defined Indian cinema.
There should be a space for all kinds of cinema. The challenge lies in the economics of cinema. You'll only get more of what sells (or what is forcibly sold because the execs feel they can piggyback a formula)
thank you for voicing this. Even though it is obvious very few people seem to accept or admit it!
This is some amazing content. You have a very great understanding of movies and have referred Indian cinema more than 50 years back which reflects your sound knowledge of movies of that era.
Karnataka has had a very different course of cinema legacy. Around the 70s, directors like Puttanna Kanagal made commercial cinemas that can be easily 'categorised' into Art Films today. These were actually fusion cinemas that carried art forms to commercial success. Then came Shankar Nag (Malgudi Days director) who continued the legacy of fusion cinema. His untimely demise triggered the downfall of Kananda cinema when people unrelated to cinema took over the industry to turn their illegal money legal. The good thing is that the Kannada audience punished the industry with a tacit boycott and the industry has not been able to recover yet.
Good one, keep serving society for betterment by such awareness initiative
Great sur!! I appreciate it , thank you ❤❤, now I have found you as the same person who has the same mindset as of mine. You have spoken my heart out. May you live longer and succeed in life. Regards!!
Such movie that stayed with me for days after I watched it in theatre was a Tamil gem - Meiyazhagan. It touched my heart like no other fom had ever. It is such a heartwarming drama. I am glad I was able to catch it in Theatres as a resident in north India.
I guess... The major problem is not the style on which our movies are based but commercialisation of the plot... For example why our every big budget movie is not perfect because they usually lose the track from the lore and backdrop they set to a unnecessary trope for commercial audience because they think keeping it to the plot will not work in their favour... Example Kalki and Brahmastra... Kalki was a below average movie for me till the first half as they showed a holly jolly dystopia with Prabhas but when they started exploring the seriousness of the plot they are dealing with in the 2nd half it became something different... Whereas Brahmastra feels like a beautiful garbage because they didn't just influenced the movie with commercial elements and then move on to the real story like kalki but they rather made a commercial and safe movie in their pov by focusing on a poor lovestory than the lore they had
Popular cinema is not some demon, you always need commercial films to work to keep the industry alive. One of the reasons Satyajit Ray could make all those classics was that Uttam Kumar was dominating the bengali box office and bringing in the money. Since the time bengali commercial cinema lost its pull the bengali movie industry turned into a ghost of its glory days seldom producing anything worthwhile.
Good perspective. Here's where I find the problem-
1. I never bashed mainstream cinemas, clearly saying it becomes a problem when "it becomes the entirety of our cinema." The west has it around 50%-60%, while in India it is 95%-97%.
2. Satyajit Rays first film, "Pather Panchali" - the one currently by most people and directors, the greatest masterpiece ever - was funded by the West Bengal Govt.
The only solution is to break the cycle and make the current generations realize what true cinema was-and could be- a visual storytelling medium- not confined by a set of formulas which is a current reality of Bollywood.
The reason why Bengali commercial film industry lost its pull is because since 2000s Bengali film industry has been taken over by Producers from outside Bengal, who spend money only on Remakes of B0llywood and South movies instead of spending money on original bengali stories. Very rarely Bengali stories get made into Movie in Bengal these days. 😀 The producers in Bengal dont give a dimes a&& about what the bengali audience will connect with. They assume since B0llywood and South movies are making big money, remaking them in Bengali would surely make them more richer. Never has it been more wrong.Bengali commercial film industry as a result has lost more viewers because of this "genius" strategy. And then and now when making a benagli detective novel movie brought them some money, all Bengali directors and producers started bandwagoning to produce the same genre in mass. 😂
Also, may i say, that Telugu industry wasnt producing any good movie just 2 decades ago. Yet their audience supported their film industry. They even demanded any film from Hollywood, Bollywood be translated into Telugu if they are to published in India. Bengalies inspite of being, 83% monolingual, and 2nd largest ethnicity didnt bother to make such demands. Translation itself could bring collaborations to Bengal, additional jobs to Bengal, and maybe inspire bengali masses to think and contemplate in their own langauge. But that didnt happen.
Bengalies it seems lament more over their lost glory,blame others in their own community, than take the initiative to contemplate and act Swadesi like Tamil, Telugu, Malayali industries did. Instead of demanding that original bengali story be made, instead of demanding that Bengali movies be shown more in cinema theatres in Bengal, instead of demanding that Hollywood or bollywood moveis if screened in Bengal be translated into Bengali, what do the bengalies do?.... Lament over their own film industry, state, community. 😀
If Lamenting on ur own was the way to move ahead, there wouldnt be any "glorious" era in Bengal to begin with.
My message to bengalies is: grow out of ur outdated mentality to lament and belittle ur own community, state and instead focus on promoting them like how rest of the world is beginning to do now. Dont bengalies realise that their habit of lamenting and belittling their own state and community for decades as led to their decadence? There is something called Positive and negative reinforcements that Bengalies need to learn about.
@@Rahul_Singh100 Agreed. Only to influence global cinema culture in India is by looking inwards and realizing what masterpieces Ray put out and broadening the audience. We then will appreciate cinema without any boundaries.
I dislike how everyone is saying,well it's a sort of cinema that people could enjoy and etc. The problem is not making entertainment but the problem is just making entertaining mass cinema. Hollywood also loves money and churns out 1000s of popular entertaining films. But they also have produced many influential autuers and art films over the years. For Bollywood the concept of 'art' or 'autuer' doesn't exist. It's all just a vapid money making machine that only cares for money unlike Hollywood which once in a while would make great artistic cinema.
Insightful & very interesting: very beautifully shared the reality of Indian Cinema. Incredible work Mayank..!!
I think it is such a shallow view of "Indian Cinema". And the audacity to claim Bollywood, a film industry in Mumbai has the influence to bring upon Crisis in Indian Cinema. Commercialization has always been the case, in the US they have the Marvel movies and banking on nostalgia films.
Pather Panchali was made in the 50s. The crew were inexperience and Ray was flat out broke. There was no concept of marketing, pre globalization mind you. Ray relied on the State Government. And notably in Bengali language. The only people who could market popular films are the rich businesses who have to break even else they sink.
Indian Cinema is Thriving today, better than ever. Satyajit Ray is the past. A very integral part of the past.
Oh, absolutely, because we all know that the recent Oscar winners like Everything Everywhere All at Once, Oppenheimer and Parasite are just the pinnacle of deep, reflective cinema, right?
Clearly, the fact that Bollywood's commercialization could influence Indian cinema is laughable, right? Especially when the Marvel and nostalgia-driven films in the US have always been paragons of artistic purity.
And yes, Ray’s struggles and innovations are just quaint historical footnotes. After all, who needs the introspection and nuanced storytelling of the past when we’ve got today’s thriving industry and its box office blockbusters which are nothing but formulaic?
@@Zach-kf3uw You are conflating two different things. Cinema is no big deal. It is just a movie in the end of the day. A product. An experience, a service. Blockbusters are popular because common Indian wants to wind down and chill. But that does not mean everything is formulaic. The films that you are talking about has a very small viewer base. And they exist in different regions in India. We have National award winning films. Some great films from South India as well as OTT platforms. These are all Indian films.
The problems we people face daily are systemic issues, that introspection does very little to help. Rather some great films have taken the route of satire, and humor.
Popular Bollywood films do not speak for the entire country. Good films in India are to this day recognized overseas.
Just like Marvel films of the US do not speak for all the films coming from America.
The deep reflective cinema that you yearn for exists. But not the way you expect it to be. Satyajit Ray is dead. Nobody can replace him, or copy him. People have drawn their inspiration from him.
Saying Bollywood ruined Cinema is outright Slander. This country is big and diverse and has many stories that it tells.
Today, people want to see the social evils be addressed, Crime, caste discrimination, gender discrimination. And we have those films that address these. Both in North Films and South Films.
Edit: corrections
@@Nitin-hh9li Ah, so cinema is just a "product" now-how refreshing! And yes, of course, every deep, reflective film is a niche market while blockbuster clichés reign supreme.
But hey, if you think Bollywood’s glossy escapism is the pinnacle of diversity, I’m sure that our own National Awards (with their controversial contrary entry to oscars) and global recognition are just minor details.
@Zach-kf3uw look you're clearly a film student of some kind. Make a deep reflective film yourself. Hating on bollywood doesn't make sense. They're not stopping anyone from making movies
How West Bengal ruined Bengali Cinema?
How Tollywood ruined Telugu Cinema?
etc......
Bollywood had the greater influence, influencing every other film industry around it, creating the ripple effect. Hence, it's prevalent to understand the root cause rather than hate or sidelining the topic.
Oh, absolutely because west bengal just woke up one day and decided "You know what? Let's ruin Bengali cinema!" And Tollywood? Clearly, its entire mission was to make sure Telugu cinema didn't stand a chance. It's not like there are any complex socio-economic factors, evolving audience preferences, or the influence of globalization at play. Nope, just pure sabotage.
@@Zach-kf3uw prove it. How it influenced south Indian cinema with proper data. Don't behave like oversaturated movie critic
Art can't be mainstream
Take recent Oscar winners which at the same time surpassed box office records.
@@Zach-kf3uw They were also entertaining. Movies like the Joker are a treat to watch, it's not a boring documentary of an insane man. It takes a popular comic character, an amazing actor and a great story, to make it entertaining, not just "bjdhdskos nuanced". I don't think Bollywood sucks or anything. It works and it's entertaining. There are movies which are art and entertaining.
Great explanation, great video, great telling. but turn the bg music down a bit. Hard to follow the words without captions
Wow that was deep!! Kudos bud
Money making and movie making, two different thing.
Although global acclaim is a great asset, the politics of oscars and international awards have largely known to be skewed.
Very thoughtful and great insight!
Keep it up 👍🏻
Actually bengali cinema is still reviving because from the period of 2000s to 2015 bengali industry has remaked every possible telugu tamil movie action movies which were liked by audience initially but after 2016 audience completely rejected it and now young audiences have lost their faith in bengali commercial cinema
But still some stars are doing great and still bengali cinema is offering good content
Wow what a lovely perspective!
Keep telling good work going brother
If you are comparing todays Bollywood with Satyajit Ray's films that's total incorrect. Either you must compare Satyajit's films with todays Bangali cinema or compare todays Bollywood with older hindi movies. All the problems you mentioned for Bollywood are relevant for all film industries in India.
No movie industry can solely survive with art cinema.
Its a mix of both Great,good, average,bad. It's real life not vannila world.
😂 batman is also commercial
You had me with you till you mentioned films like Rockstar and Tamasha. I mean. I'm all for nuanced storytelling, but Rockstar, Tamasha, Yjhd etc, being celebrated for being nuanced is such a joke to me. Rockstar had a paper thin plot and Jordan's character arc heavily feels like dues ex machina relying heavily on the trope that pain produces great music instead of actually focussing on his growth as an artist but no, having his heart broken alone was enough to suddenly for people to see his talent. Plus, the film is heavily laden with poetry that is great, deep, reflective but just doesn't fit with the film and is used to fool people. Pyaasa is a far superior film about an artist struggling to fit and find his space, doesn't rely on trial room effects as you say and most of all is actually reflective rather than just trying to create the illusion that it is.
Rockstar, Tamasha, Sardar Udham, Udaan are all gems in these past two decades compared to what all have been released.
@@mayankkumar855 Udaan
@@ansharora2231i have seen all of Guru Datts films so making an oh so obvious prejudice about what I haven’t watched is unjust. Again, when we do compare in terms of filmmakers I do think Imtiaz, Anurag, etc hold the same opinion compared to commercial cinema, as well when Imtiaz makes a so what commercial film- its not comparable to any commercial film available. That is what happened with Ray and the film bicycle thieves.
@@ansharora2231again to add on to ur point of gangs of wasseypur, it has gained popularity, no doubt, but over the years, same with that of rockstar and tamasha, and with udaan, swadesh, etc, and neglecting these voices is a pessimistic view of artistic cinema in general in the last two decades only.
😊
@@mayankkumar855 Again, popularity isn't. a marker of anything really. Great films become popular, terrible films become popular, it means nothing. You can perform whatever mental gymnastics you want, but Rockstar, Tamasha are very flawed films and don't have the depth that people like you want to perceive them in for some reason. Using poetry in the narrative, or unnecessary ornamentation with urdu dialouges doesn't add depth and only pretentious artsy people get fooled by these things. Udaan is far nuanced a film than Tamasha. Rockstar is what it is because of AR Rahman's music. Take it out and Rockstar is barely average. And the fact that you say you have watched Kaagaz Ke Phool and yet think Rockstar is a good and nuanced take on a struggling artist, shows how you don't understand nuance all that well.
Then do a thing. Dub Satyajit Ray's movies into hindi. Or at least have subtitles included in them.
Check out the criterion collection. it has all ray's movies with subtitles and were the ones to literally save/restore our masterpieces. Check my other video for more context - th-cam.com/video/iPYfzQ4PJi4/w-d-xo.html
who said there were no subtitles already? have you even searched for them?
You reek of high-brow elitism but you are absolutely on point.
Valuing american cinema awards is idiotic.
We can start by valuing National Film Awards from India and not filmfare.
Watch movies like aadujeevitham the goatlife, brahmayugam and manjummelboys.
It will change your thinking.
Do you think blockbuster movies are not art
First and last step to any cinema is know what you want, know who you are, question and think about it, then write whatever comes into your mind, instead of watching other directors and people as cinema is ones consiouness itself portayed like a drawing you do on a blank sheet
I dont like bollywood style
Commercial movies will continue to be made according to the general taste of the common people no matter how rubbish it may seem to you,
The good thing is there are still plenty of good quality films being made in our country,but dont get the deserved popularity because of finance and the same old public taste
So bollywood as a whole cant be generalized as a factory for masala movies
Definitely hindi movies have much more viewers in india compared to other regional language movies but that doesn't mean it ruined cinema
Cinema doesn't just mean deep art films or realistic parallel cinema
It can also be illogical light weight just for fun and pressure release
Which is extremely important for indian people who are continuously under stress in their everyday life
end of the day it all comes to money, what makes the money is the best
L take, Bollywood didn't ruin it... audience did. Not everyone looks for art, most look for entertainment and what can be sold.... is made. [commercial films with usual tropes]
.
Though, this does not mean the artsy films dont exist. There have been films over the years that could have provoked audience yet it flopped. Ain't nobody making films that would flop forever... also the simple tropes you told, not every film need complex dialogues... simple yet charming stuff attracts... If you look for complexity good for you, but that dont give you a right to say everything else ruins indian cinema... maybe you've seen it for ever and it numbed you but those have a charm[not all mainstream ones, some are total cash grabbers].
also check movies of mani ratnam, vishal bharadwaj, anurag kashyap, vikramaditya mothwane, raj n dk, neeraj pandey and there's more if you need.
i ain't demeaning your pov, its just complexity does not usually mean its better, maybe the simplicity in sotryline is a charm or maybe the copied plotline with creative dialogue and perfect comic timing is a charm... not everyone needs a life awakening storyline or a thought provoking dialogue to remember for ever.
@@Hxrshfr Thanks for your point of view. I have watched works (mostly every work) of all directors you mentioned and no doubt, they are influential. For this topic, I chose Ray, because he still is the most influential in global cinema (regardless of what anyone says, if you ask anyone from around the world who the greatest filmmakers are, they are bound to mention ray, except people from India.)
but also, ask yourself, Isn’t it hilarious how what we often imagine as “high art” in cinema, like the Grand Prix-winning films at Cannes (this time from India), barely get a mention compared to the red carpet looks of so-called big stars? It’s almost as if the true depth of cinema is overshadowed by superficial glamour.
The cycle continues because people flock to what’s flashy and familiar, but moreover by what is pushed by Bollywood, than seeking out and supporting films that push artistic boundaries.
If we want to change this, we need to start watching and championing those true cinematic gems ourselves. Only then can we shift the focus from glitter to genuine storytelling. This was the true purpose of my video and why I mentioned ray as my subject (as he is the best director India gave us, and India never cared to realize.)
@@Zach-kf3uwMe too, Ray is one of the best directors in India.
Commercial failures are often not even watched until 5-10 years and then the audience will dckride it saying "indian audience of past was terrible to miss it out"
while doing the exact same with the current films.
I see no one talking about bhakshak's no nonsense focusing on muzaffarpur's case... or Laapata Ladies[during its run] gaining the required audience to appreciate its message about women empowerment. Even now it is appreciated for it love angle and not for trying to empower them women..... Dange coming up with a college storyline with college politics and lot of sub plot angles concluding into one of the best fight sequence in Indian movie was given no appreciation....Dedh bigha zameen was given no appreciation for its realism....Kill despite elevating in the action genre was given only a little appreciation....
it is sad to see that little different storyline flops or aint talked about... creative freedom is taken when you watch them... adience is plain mid here....
malayalam audience watches the movies... they accept the variety actors bring... but north never accepted Ajay Devgan,John Abraham and others for the variety they showed.
you're right, audience got to change. the cinema will change in itself...all films above had little or lot artistic freedom yet did no good ... makes me wonder how pushing artistic boundaries will end the cycle.
a lot do watch the cinematic films, but the numbers aint close to the ones watching generic stuff,i mean not everyone has the time to immerse into artistic stuff... some just want to be entertained...
Also,Check Sanivaaram Saripodhaa in theatre if you want , in original language, despite a hero villian cliche angle, that film has something more to it.
The whole film revolves around "What is true anger?"...
One of the recent films that hit me!
@@Hxrshfr Thank you! I was glad to even change one perspective and align with changing audiences in India.
I have the film you speak of in my watchlist (which I dont let last more than 2 days ahaha).
Watch "all we imagine as light", by Payal Kapadia, releasing in Nov, it has already won the grandest award at the Cannes (the Grand Prix). If we dont bring the change as audience, no one will!
Wow 👌 wonderful
Why blame bollywood. Why didn't bengal Cinematic verse continued on Satyajit Ray's path if it were so meaningful.
Entire content and title is clickbait.
Have you seen bengali movies ad their content. It is much worse.
Pretty sure 50% of today's bengali youth didnt watch Satyajit Rays movie. Or worse.. 90% of them.
Ah, yes, let’s just ignore the massive influence Bollywood’s commercial formula has had on every industry and pin it all on the lack of Satyajit Ray enthusiasts. Because clearly, the failure to keep a legacy alive is entirely the fault of a generation that didn’t watch enough classic films, right?
On a serious note.
Bollywood's dominance and commercialization have indeed had a ripple effect, influencing other industries and leading to a focus on more mainstream, escapist content. While it’s true that many young viewers may not be familiar with Ray's work, it’s also important to recognize how industry trends shape audience preferences.
The aim of the video is to explore these dynamics and highlight the importance of rediscovering and valuing diverse cinematic styles for future generations.
@@Zach-kf3uw Audience shape industry and not the other way around.
Yes Bollywood has it's effect but in many spheres it didn't.
wanna blame everything on bollywood is just for clickbait and not doing anything concrete about it.
Why is the bengali cinema and soaps so terrible. It's worse than bollywood and soaps.
Have you even seen it or you are so cool to even watch those.
@@bidsvon6379 Understood your point, but it's not just my perspective-many agree that Bollywood's overwhelming influence has significantly shaped the current state of various regional cinemas, including Bengali cinema. Bollywood's commercial success has set a standard that pressures other industries to follow suit, often at the expense of innovation and depth. If they don't, they are likely to fail at their expense of their whole existence.
This isn't about blaming Bollywood but recognizing how its dominance has created a ripple effect, leading to less compelling content in other sectors.
If you look at Bengali cinema now, the decline in its quality and originality can be partially (moreover mostly) attributed to this influence.
Acknowledging this context is crucial for understanding how to support and revitalize regional cinema.
@@Zach-kf3uw Bollywood didn't became a success overnight. Bollywood didn't have a influence during Satyajit Ray's time like it has now.
What happened after Satyajit Ray's era in Bengal Cinema.
During 60s and 70s bollywood ad regional film industries were at par.
At that time, bengal cineverse should have Incorporated Satyajit Ray's values but it didn't. That's where they miss it and not bollywood.
Today's perspective cannot whitewash the mistakes of past.
Bollywood got it's success formula in 90s only not before that where it started churning out mass produced films quantity over quality.
Fault lies in bengal film industry and whoever were there in that from 50s to 80s
@@bidsvon6379 Sure, it’s easy to blame Bengal cinema for not following Ray’s lead while ignoring that Bollywood’s success formula in the 90s was just a masterpiece of mass-produced mediocrity. Let’s not forget, Bollywood didn’t exactly excel in quality before discovering its magic formula either. So maybe it’s not just Bengal cinema that missed the mark; it’s a broader industry trend we’re talking about.
dont know why are you comparing Satyajit ray to Bollywood any time.
& also his work in bengali cinema is unmatched still today,
Bollywood is indian cinema. Bengali cinema is indian cinema. When you compare within that context, you bring the things that went wrong and the things that went right (Satyajit Ray was right all along), so that light on him, deserves to be there.
@@mayankkumar855 bengali cinema shows the art, other hand bollywood is money making machine with 80% crap, But still people loves it, i don't blame anyone, its rush rush life and everyone got enough time to appreciate every form of art.
but still i don't think its right to compare satyajit ray to bollywood straight away.
plus the change comes with us (audience).
if we don't support bollywoods brainless project, they might start making good , realistic & content based movies. then you can compare. which is far away task
@@FroZenGhoSt67 hollywood is also commercial industry 😂
@@raja-jl9os i never said its not, do you want to compare bollywood with it...??
Remember, no matter what anyone says - movies are always first a form of entertainment and then an art form. The problem that is happening with Bollywood currently isn't what we consider as 'commercialization' or 'predictable'. All the stories in the world can be boiled down to similar summaries. It is the formulaic and monotonous the movies have become. An industry making just art cinemas again and again will be equally as bad. One can't judge another person on the movie he likes and tell him that what he likes isn't 'Cinema' (but you can judge a person based on the movie he DOESN'T like).
Very nice
Underrated channel for cinephiles ❤
This channel will always keep a head start focus on cinephiles, their ways of thought, and new stories.
Check my out my latest videos for more diverse content. Let me know what else you'd want to be covered on this channel.
Brother can you please Analyse The cinema of 2024 Ki change aaya hai bhi ke abhi bhi wahi chale jaa rha hai
Bro i want to hear you voice not background music pls make you background music bit low
I love Satyajit Ray. Have watched all his movies although I don’t understand Bengali. Can’t stand Bollywood, cheap entertainment and a symbol of decline of society and values.
I think you'd love the next video on subtitles, colour and global cinema. Check it out! - th-cam.com/video/iPYfzQ4PJi4/w-d-xo.html
Oh bahan western art cinema m incest,violence, ndity bhi dikhaya jata h kya woh galat nhi h
@@raja-jl9os Cinema is a "Visual Storytelling" Medium.
It uses visuals and sound to explore complex themes in a way that can evoke immediate and powerful emotional responses. Scenes featuring difficult subjects like violence or intimacy are integral to this process, helping to create a more immersive and impactful narrative.
Criticizing films for these elements overlooks their artistic purpose. Just as novels use words (as novels are written storytelling medium) to delve into complex ideas, films use visual and auditory storytelling to achieve the same effect. These scenes are meant to provoke thought, empathy and character analysis, enriching the overall story.
Understanding that both mediums have unique ways of exploring themes helps us appreciate the different methods of storytelling. Films confront challenging topics to engage viewers deeply and reflect on real human experiences.
@@Zach-kf3uw feminist logo ko clint eastwood and cowboy movies pasand nhi h 😂
@@raja-jl9os Funny how some criticize Satyajit Ray, yet Audrey Hepburn and Meryl Streep praised Satyajit Ray for his portrayal of women, calling it "the best handling of female characters in any movies ever made." Guess some people might need to revisit their roots!
Are you literally comparing art films to commercial films? really? What is even your point?
Get a better microphone pls ❤
Actually Torrent and Jio net ruined you, brother. You're doomed.
How?
Bollywood mein har saal acchi filmein bnti hai par koi nahi dekhta unhe laapata ladies aayi thi abhi uska kya hua theatre mein sabko pata hai
Yahan galti bollywood ki nahi audience ki hai
Apne bubble se bahar niklega to pata lagega tujhe india ke baare mein
har koi tere jaisa samajhdaar thodi hai 100 mein se 90% janta anpadh hai
Aur baat kare ott subscription ki to bahi mere jyadatar log illegal movie download karte hai
i am sorry art film jaise look de dene se koi film art film nahi ban jaati. Laapata ladies bahut hi bekar film thi, jo Kiran Rao ne banaya tha gaon ke jeewan par. Kiran Rao ek din bhi apne life main gaon main rahi hain! bekar movie banaoge to kaun jayega theatre main
@@AB.926 hollywood bhi commercial industry h nolan, Spielberg, Cameron ye sab commercial cinema banate h
@@AB.926 art house cinema sirf kuch European country m banti h
Focus more on your video script rather than fake accent lol
I live in the US lol. Focus more on content than accent :)
@@Zach-kf3uw dude sorry 😭
Its Urduwood
I have stopped watch the shit it produces
I do not think that as a society we have reached the point where we wish to explore nuances of emotion or deep philosophical musings. Our stressful lives and the unpredictability of Indian life makes it so that when we are being entertained, we crave simplistic, frivolous fare, something to take our mind away from the humdrum of life.
In my own experience, as a youth, I loved to discover thoughtful cinema, love to ponder over the intricacies of what might have gone into making this movie including the script, nuances of cinematography etc. Later on though, as the responsibilities of a householder took over, even though my sensibilities have not changed, I realize that I do not have much time for deep, thoughtful Cinema. Therefore my choices are to either completely forgo cinema, or to engage in fare that is commonly consumed. If I do watch something like the ship of Theseus, it is usually piecemeal and over a span of many days, so that I have enough time to watch the movie once, and then go over it again bit by bit to ruminate.
I guess we can see why simple-minded, thoughtless movies get consumed on such a large scale in India and thought-provoking movies get pushed to the wayside.
1:25 Andhadhund was different.
it was a commercial film masquerading as an art house production! same shit different packaging