What Does It Take To Photograph With Compassion In An Inhumane War?
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Thanks for watching - tried a few slightly different approaches with this video.
Seems the channel videos are getting a bit more traction with YT browse, so I'm also testing out a new thumbnail style.
What do you think about the inclusion of some footage of Larry Burrows?
Alas the bed music on the footage was hard baked into the audio.... :(
Thanks to Ian for pointing out my freudian slip about war photography going back to 1839!
You're doing great; the only real question is how long it will take you to hit 100k subscribers :)
The footage of Burrows that you included fit really naturally in with the rest. It definitely enhanced the presentation. Larry Burrows was one of those names I had heard, but could not link with his work. I had seen some of these photos before, but not all. Thanks for educating me!
Thank you for this video and also for including those pictures. It is inspiring to see those images and they also fit right in the story.
As a combat veteran and a photographer later in life I appreciate the bravery these men have. Thank you for such a profesional channel.
Thank you for your service.
There's a certain nobility in dying for your art... But I'd MUCH rather live for it. He was amazing.
At 3:41 in the photo by Larry Burrows is another combat photojournalist, Catherine Leroy (France). Her life story and especially how she got to Vietnam and her work there is incredible.
One the photographers that was killed alongside Burrows was Keisaburo Shimamoto. He was hired by a Brazilian Journalist called Hamilton Ribeiro that had the leg seriously dammaged and after amputaded in the Vietnam War. Thanks for sharing this awesome content.
Thank you for this video featuring Larry Burrows. His photographs from Vietnam were featured alongside several other Vietnam War photographers in Catherine Leroy's edited & compiled 2005 book "Under Fire." Speaking of Catherine Leroy, an excellent new book about her extraordinary life & photos in Vietnam called "Close-up on War" is well worth reading. She overcame, to varying degrees, sometimes hostile gender discrimination to capture those award winning photographs. The men & women war photographers in Vietnam were incredibly brave and, fortunately, lucky to have survived what they witnessed close-up and captured for generations to see and feel.
Having served in submarines during Vietnam, I was always amazed at the imagery coming out of the conflict, including Larry Burrows. Late in life I was a newspaper photog for a decade ('98-'08) but none of my images come close to comparing with what Burrows produced in his short life. Thanks for documenting his life and his art.
The bravery, dedication and heroism of the soldiers and all the photojournalists. And Reaching out, where's the systemic racism they talk about today? I only see comradery and brotherhood. Superb video.
Thanks for that lovely comment
Amazing video. War photography was what pushed me to becoming at Documentary photographer. Although I’ve never had the privilege to shoot conflict, it’s something I have a deep respect for.
The most interesting videos seem to reach the smallest audience. Deserves way more clicks. I could feel your compassion and respect for this great artist …. Tremendously well done, … thank you for the work.
This is so sad, and still so real in his images, the one thing in my mind: WHY?
Does anyone see this images, and still wants fight, for what he can’t keep any?
Sorry for going a bit philosophical. But looking at the truth in their faces, tells more then a story.
Thank you for sharing.
"Does anyone see this images, and still wants fight, for what he can’t keep any? "
I think that's the point behind these, is not to glorify conflict, but humanise it, and make it hit home how awful it is through the eyes of these people caught up in the wars.
@@ThePhotographicEye That´s why many armies today restrict the photographers work in wars. To transform large numbers, companies names etc. in faces and sometimes names make us wonder always if the wars are worth fighting...
@@ThePhotographicEye You should do a video on Dickey Chappelle.. She covered a number, 7 if I recall, different armed conflicts and also died covering Viet Nam. She was killed in 1965. America's Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) did a special on her called Behind the Pearl Earrings: The Story of Dickey Chappelle, Combat Photojournalist.
th-cam.com/video/axPz5xIBwnc/w-d-xo.html
Thank you. Difficult to watch. Vietnam is a real place in my life. The draft ended the year I turned 18, meanwhile, I had seen images of what I fear was going to eventually be my experience or plight. I recall later, as a freshman in college having older Vietnam vets in classes. They were always the ones who yelled when they talked and were "weird" but we knew that they experienced something that we hadn't--so we treated them with dignity and respect.
Larry Burrows.... absolutely right, the best photographer in Vietnam.
Great to see a South African talking photography on TH-cam! Howzit Howzit! Thank you for the awesome video on Larry Burrows.
Your scripts and artist choices are excellent. Thank you.
Glad you like them!
Some of the best presentations of past photographers I have ever watched. Excellent, Alex!
Larry Burrows had a masters eye for a photograph.. my brother, future husband, cousins and a huge number of friends were in Vietnam. I worried about them all the time and I collected photos taken by Burrows and poured over them in an attempt to feel the weight of what my loved ones were experiencing. His Life cover One Ride With Yankee Papa 13 is etched in my memory and that magazine is stowed away in my memory box in my basement locker. I will never forget Larry Burrows.
Wonderful comment - I'm sharing with my Photography class this amazing work and your insight on Burrow's work . Thanks for sharing!
Superb video. Larry Burrows was the greatest photographer to go to Vietnam.
Terrific. I had never heard of Larry. Don McCullen is the photographer that always comes to mind when thinking about Vietnam photo coverage. Thanks, I will research more about him.
Looking at his photography, as featured here, I'm struck by how much influence he had on the production design of Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket." His work is striking and dangerous, and yet he offers the viewer a glimpse of the humanity buried under the layers of discipline, excitement and horrors of conflict. Great video!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Another person who drew heavily is Oliver Stone in Platoon - at least it feels that way to me. He (Stone) also based a lot of scenes in Platoon off of passages in the book 'Nam', which is a series of personal recollections of soldiers from Vietnam. Well worth a read if you're into the history of that war.
amzn.to/3cGDbwH
@@ThePhotographicEye Stone didn’t need to copy anyone’s images of Vietnam, he served as an infantry soldier fighting in the jungle and paddy fields himself.
Masterful job! Even eye contact when reading!!
I bought a copy of The Compasionate Photoprapher decades ago and it is a beautifully done book. There is a section of non-war photographs that is stunning.
Thanks for the suggestion :D
Another fantastic video, I had heard about Larry Burrows but knew nothing about him or his work. I got into photography after seeing images by Don McCullin and also sports photographers. Have you considered doing a video about McCullin. Keep up the excellent work, you are on of my favourite channels.
Larry has been a huge inspiration to me. I was so impressed by the amount of preparation that went into some of his photographs. One Ride on Yankee Papa 13 introduced me to the concept of the photo essay and helped me to understand the importance of narrative in photography.
Thanks for the comment Chris.
Larry was one of those photographers I was introduced to at Photoschool (along David Douglas Duncan etc) that I somehow forgot about. It was only a bit later on I 'rediscovered' them and their work.
I think it's a testament to them and their generations of photographers that they understood the importance their photography played, and they treated the medium with respect, and the people they were photographing also with respect and compassion.
Mostly, like you mentioned, they understood how to communicate with images, something you tend not to see too much of today - possibly because of the demise of the 'picture story' which has been replaced by the visual 'soundbite'.
I am amazed by the way you create a gripping narrative about Larry Burrow's work and attitude, injecting your personal views in an interesting way without trying to overshadow the photographer's work. Including footage is a great way of transporting the photographer's attitude. Exceptional portrait of an exceptional photographer. Bravo!
Not the video I expect to leave me speechless and on the verge of tears. That soldier crying at 7:58 after the YP13 account. Oh boy. Brilliant video as always. Thank you.
it's very powerful stuff isn't it?
@@ThePhotographicEye Indeed it is. I am very happy your channel is getting the attention it deserves. I am excited to see more both on the history and the greats, but also more of your theory videos. Thanks for sharing these and good luck as the channel grows.
Before getting heavily into photography I never gave the emotional or even the ethical side of this medium much if any thought. Like so many I new when I liked a photograph more often though I just took photographs for granted weather a magazine, online or on the news. But it’s that very emotion that I feel when out and about with my camera that now has me hooked, as if tuned in to my surroundings. With a photographers eye, all levels, we notice things that pass most by without thought, in fact we seek it out, yet we make a decision ‘shall I, should I capture that image’ making that decision isn’t always easy yet it’s the most difficult decisions made in an instant that often draw out and define the artist within.
" With a photographer's eye, all levels, we notice things that pass most by without thought,*
Excellent summary right there!
The footage of Burrows has a powerful impact on the video, overall this is great work.
Thank you very much! Yes, he is so unassuming and quiet.
Amazingly informative and well-produced videos! I have “liked” and Subscribed.
Thank you. The first of your suggested reading list is engaging enough that I subscribed.
For me, your channel will be like a fine cognac; to be savored gently and with contemplation.
First time viewers should be prepared to pause the video and really think about the images presented.
More than enough sites entice people to binge on the latest release date marketing.
There are a few sites I enjoy who concentrate on purely technical skills.
Your offering, from what I have just seen, is nearly unique in presenting foundational information for the creative process.
Hi Yukonica. Thanks ever so much for your comment and subscribing.
As you've pointed out, most channels focus on gear and the like, never really the photography/photographer behind the images.
The response so far has been very positive, so evidently we're not alone!
What a great and informative video. My relationship with my photography is pretty bad at the moment but your channel and videos like this are really helping. Thanks
It was interesting I was in Vietnam 2014 and went to a photo showing. It was all from the War era with photos of destroyed USA gear and Victorious Vietnamese Soldiers. A very strong positive showing from their Governments view. No bad scenes of death nor fighting and destruction from the War.
Very fortunate to have stumbled onto your channel.
Very very nice episode , great storytellimg with no rush in your voice. keep em coming!!!! And omg Mr Larry made some awesome puctures wow 👍
I have now seen 3 of your films here. I am full of respect of your narrative and how you contribute to what photography is about, through a variety of genres.
Thank you Alex, that was a fantastic video on Larry Burrows. You mentioned that LIFE magazine gave him other non war assignments. I clearly remember the story he did on the Taj Mahal for LIFE.
Thanks Harold - glad you enjoyed this one. Do you happen to remember the name of the video the photo school had that showcased Burrows and the other PJ's of the Vietnam War? I think it might be a 1960's BBC Omnibus episode called 'Beautiful, Beautiful'. Though that's BW and I seem to recall the video being colour.
@@ThePhotographicEye I had quite a few about the PJ's of the Vietnam war. Will see if I can find out which ones they were. There was one on Larry Burrows that you show a clip from. Also had one on Don McCullin, that I think was BBC.
Thanks Harold.
There were quite a few BBC docs - did you ever get to watch 'The Genius Of Photography'? That was a great six part series.
@@ThePhotographicEye No, I have not watched that series. Will see if it is available on TH-cam,
I really love your videos man .Your channel deserves more .
Your channel is ART!!
Indeed one of the greatest photojournalists covering Vietnam, but I think Philip Jones-Griffiths is up there as well. I don't know if you're planning video on him, would be great to see.
Thanks for the suggestion. At the moment I'm working through my personal favourite photographers somewhat obviously, but Philip Jones-Griffiths is an excellent idea. His child soldier image is brutally impactful.
Very powerful piece.
Thank you.
I just had a chance to borrow Vietnam from the library. It's amazing. The essay on Yankee Papa 13 is heart wrenching. It's a shame the Newseum has closed, but perhaps one of the traveling exhibits will swing by my town.
Bravo, sir. Bravo. I loved this essay.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the comment :D
Heavy stuff man! Really great video you made about this. Thank you
La plus belle photo de guerre c'est lui si on peut parlait ainsi quand jai vu cet homme couche les yeux ouverts et le soldat debout comme s'il y avait une conversation ,la douceur de cet échange m'on fait oublier un instant l'horreur de cet guerre !!
Stunning. Well done.
Thank you! Cheers!
Wow. Just wow. What an amazing man and thanks for putting this together.
My pleasure Ona - thanks for watching
I absolutely love these videos. Please don't stop making them!
Glad you like them!
This is absolutely brilliant documentary you’ve made! I had to sub! I really appreciate the work you’ve done for this!
I had to share your video on Twitter! This is just too good!
@@AlpacoFilms Thanks ever so much! I'm really glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for the sub and the share :D
Amazing. What a story.
Thank you so much for a really informative film. I was born at the end of the Vietnam war. It was mentioned in hushed tones and dismissed. As a child growing up in the UK I came upon Larry Burrows photo in a magazine I was 8. I always watched ww2 films and it was though it was all there was. The hero’s posh pilots. But I stared and I was absolutely enthralled. It was what I still consider the most perfect capture of a war that I wasn’t clean and orderly. It was the “four marines carry a casualty to a waiting resupply chopper. Catherine Leroy is in it as she just came in on it.
If a photo could tell a story sure. This photo is a book I still look at and feel the weariness the urgency the focus the arduous labour. The scene is so tense and the marines faces are each unique and are absolutely compelling. I have this photo and I find it so familiar and enthralling as the first time I saw as a kid. I feel the tension you can hear the rotor blades thumping the heavy humid air. Catherine seems to have her head bowed in respect and sadness but you feel she is strong and it’s a moment she has seen before yet winds on her camera to keep shooting. The marines faces make you want to burst into tears. They are so young and yet they rush their friend buddy a marine. You can tell time is running out they are rushing to get that marine out and saved. They are saving every single ounce of strength they have as they are totally exhausted as well. These are marines the baddest toughest. The best of the best. But here we see that grit and toughness and determination and the sheer urgency the sadness the frustration the care the courage and the speed they show.
I see this photo everyday. I am a photographer I take Astro and night shots.
This photo by Larry is just life changing.
Thanks again I ramble I apologise
Thank you for watching.
Thank you a great insight in to a war photographer
Absolutely loved this one! All his shots are filled with so much emotion. To spend so much time their shows true bravery for a cause he believed in.
Indeed, it's a great illustration of how powerful photography can be
Awesome presentation thanks so much 📷❤️❤️❤️📷
Beautifully told. I am loving your videos, thank you for broadening my knowledge of photography.
Hi, just discovered your channel & that was fascinating! Thanks. I have now subscribed.
Awesome, thank you Alan!
Very interesting. Truly he is one of the greats. As with McCullin he is often labelled a 'War photographer', but first and foremost he was a very fine photographer and practitioner of the medium. And some might say, with a certain justification, that he was an artist. His use of colour in particular, at a time when most photojournalists were shooting B&W, makes him remarkable.
As you say, his use of colour brings his photography to the forefront of that period.
Labels are such clumsy things, and it's quite right that we should think of people as great photographers first and foremost, rather than pigeon holing them into specific titles.
David Bailey, whose work is far wider than just fashion is labeled as a 'fashion' photographer (as is Avedon).
Thanks for the comment, glad you found it interesting.
@@ThePhotographicEye Yes indeed. Very true of both Bailey and Avedon.
Another outstanding video Alex! Can't wait for the next one! Cheers
Thanks Ann - glad you liked it :D
Amazing work!!!
Thank you!
Brilliant, very informative. Great insight and overview, thanks very much for this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi Alex, I’ve watched all of your excellent vlogs but this one just resonated with me, it was outstanding. I am also a Safa now living in the UK however have spent the past few months grounded in S.A. after arriving for a ‘quick’ visit in December, no complaints! I’m a film photographer and have been very fortunate to have spent my time here working in an exquisite darkroom and learning from one of the last remaining master darkroom printers in Johannesburg. Best wishes.
Hi Fiona.
Great to have you here. Yes, I can think of worse places to be stuck (the weather since Dec here in the UK has been pants). We were meaning to go out this Oct, my brother lives in Paulshof, but don't think that's going to happen somehow.
Who is the printer your working with?
@@ThePhotographicEye I’ve been working with Dennis Da Silva at the Alternative Print Studio. I bought an old Mamiya 1000s 645 while here to alleviate my boredom after leaving all my cameras in the UK. Has been a great experience.
There's a name I've not heard in a while.
At the top of the road (Hawken Av) near the studio your at there's a large white building on the left opposite the stripmall.
That used to be The White Horse Inn and when I was a school boy/student we used to go clubbing there every weekend!
@@ThePhotographicEye oh yes I remember the White Horse Inn very well. I was an art student of the early 80s in Johannesburg so an older vintage than you. Do you know Dennis, he’s a legend? He prints for people from all over the world. His studio must be one of the last places to offer what they do, we are really privileged. You should pop in when you are back for a visit.
Thank you for making this video.
Thank you for watching.
This was a great video, I had forgotten how great Burrows was, I don't feel he gets much as traction in the photographic literature as he should (over here (U.S.) it might be that Vietnam is not a very well remembered war). I remember when he died, I wrote a letter to Life expressing my sorrow. I was a high school kid with a Nikon, I don't imagine it was a very impressive letter as Life declined to publish it. They did send me a very nice response which I held on to for many years though it seems to no longer be with me. I was struck by his introspective narrative, it reminds me a bit of Don McCullin who has given very thoughtful, insightful, and philosophical comments on being a conflict photographer.
Glad you liked the video. There seems to be giant holes in the history of photography that some photographers seem to fall into. Burrows I think is one of them. He was soft spoken, died relatively young, and there isn't a wide range of his work out there one could 'discover' by chance (aside from YP13)
Thanks for an informative and educational channel
My pleasure
Yet another fascinating photographer, this is such an interesting series. I’m going to share this link with two clubs in Toronto and my club here in Cambridge.
Please do! I'm so thrilled you're enjoying the episodes.
Super video! Thank you! )))
Awesome! Thank you
You're welcome!
I saw a copy of Reaching Out in an exhibition and it was a big photograph, you don't get the scale of it looking in a book or online, very powerful - it demanded your attention which made it hard to overlook in the space given. I didn't know much about him before, but I can see now how his photographs are regarded as pieces of art. Don McCullin has always faught against his work being seen as art so it's interesting that 2 seemingly similar photographers are actually so different in their approach. Thanks.
Thanks Sue.
As you said, seeing these images in physical form really changes the way they impact you, verses seeing them small on a screen.
At the same time I was at the Newseum they also had the Pulitzer gallery on display - it was glorious to be surrounded by all those powerful images. And, because I was there when the place opened on a Friday morning, the entire place was almost deserted!
Truly enjoy your work! Thank you for sharing your passion and knowledge. If you haven’t already seen it, Under Fire, is worth the time. It is here on TH-cam as well as on HBO. The story of Tony Vaccaro and the 83rd Infantry during WWII is told from the perspective of the unofficial photographer. It spans the time from training, thru Normandy, the Battle of the Bulge, the liberation of a concentration camp, until the end of the war. It was meaningful to me as my uncle was part of the division and who rarely spoke of what he saw.
There is a book called « Requiem », made from photos made by photographers who died in Vietnam. Lot of name in this book…
My word, that was a powerful piece. Congratulations, I was thoroughly engrossed.
Sorry, I forgot to ask. You mentioned that war photographer deaths go back to 1839? Did I mis-hear?
@@ianrosie4431 Glad you liked it - I perhaps said 'war photographers' when of course I should have meant 'war correspondents'. Bit a tad hard asking people in a war zone to hold still for 6 hours in 1839 for a daguerreotype :D
Well spotted!
@@ThePhotographicEye Ah okay. No problem. Yes, as you say, not so easy. Many of these early Photographers were also Painters and could fall back on re-creating battle scenes, something they thought nothing about doing of course. But the public, it turned out, had other ideas for photography. It was not to be representative. It was to be the truth. A ball and chain photography still drags along to this day. Roger Fenton's 1855 'Into the valley of death', being a fair early example.
@@ianrosie4431 And of course with Fentons Valley of Death there's some controversy about recomposing elements to create a better composition.
Funny how the public like to think photography is the 'Truth' but are blind to how easily their emotions can be influenced by the way the photographer composes the image.
Eisenstaedt’s image of Goebbels, along with Newman's portrait of Alfried Krupp spring to mind.
@@ThePhotographicEye Indeed. The Cannonballs had been moved aside to allow wagons through the ravine. Fenton put them back in the dimples they'd made in the road in order to 're-create' the original scene. That he thought nothing of doing this is indicated by him keeping the original photograph he took which showed the scene as he had originally happened upon, with the Cannonballs cleared to the side of the road. The idea that he was faking anything I suspect never entered his head. He even entered in his diary that he took two shots, if I remember. More that a century later you have the likes of Sontag, incredulous at the fakery of it all.
I love his photos and that time in history although not the suffering the draft ended when I turned 17? My mom and dad took me to the post office to sign up for selective service and were told it wasn't required anymore was scared to death I have seen Requiem and have the book excellent read
Evocative imagery that is achingly human...a fantastic piece on an interesting and exceptionally talented man.
Thanks - think the extra effort was worth it.
Should do a video on Mica Bar-Am as well.
My grandpa was a Lt. col. that got shot and was presented a Purple Heart he had this magazine framed and said how he flew Larry was assigned to his squad
Thank you Alex
My Dad would be happy for sharing on you tube Thank you Deborh Burrows Gayliard
Oh, Deborah, that means so much to me.
Thank you 🙏
thank you!
I was a photographer in Viet Nam 66=67. As a so called non-combatant we were not even allowed guns. I had a year of it and can't imagine 9 years there like Burrows did.
Can't imagine the feeling of vulnerability you must have felt.
Thanks for your comment and bringing into real perspective the mental strains people like yourself and Burrows went through to document that conflict.
@@ThePhotographicEye I was an Air Force photographer. There were three main outfits, the 13th RTS, 6470th RTD and the biggest the 600th Photo Sqd which had 18 detachments around the country. We didn't have the same freedom as the Army guys (bless um) as far as movement goes but in many ways abit safer. We did lose guys in the air, 9 I think before I left but the loss rate of the RTS guys/pilots was 58% The "sillyvillians" as we called them were in a different world. People like Burrows and Jones-Griffth got to follow things their way where as we had assignments and orders. But Between November 24, 1945, and April 30, 1975, 135 civilian and military combat photographers died in SE Asia. I was unaware of this high number till I looked it up.
@@tplyons5459 Thanks for sharing that. That is an extremely high number and goes to show the very real danger these people placed themselves, willingly.
dont forget McCullin and recently passed TIM PAGE - who I knew well from Cambodia
Brilliant photojournalist (artist) whose luck ran out in a tragic helicopter accident in Laos.
Hi thank you for a most informative series, if you have time do take a look at the work of British photographer Bert hardy who was employed by picture post and completely self taught excellent examples of capturing the moment.
Good work
Thanks
I follow many dozens of photographers for one reason or another... but only one or two come vaguely close to the quality of content that you produce so eloquently...again and again.
Thank you kindly Brian. I'm glad you're pleased with the channel :D
I did one year there. I can't imagine anyone doing 10!
Can't imagine what it was like
,thank you..
Where can I get the footage you use of Mr. Burrows speaking? Is that part of a larger documentary???
I can’t remember the exact name of the documentary, but I think if you Google panorama BBC Larry Burroughs war photographer, something like that you’ll probably find the documentary it’s part of the larger piece. If I recall there are fragments of it around online
Thanks man! This is such an amazing documentary on an amazing man. Good work and thanks for the reply!
I presume that Don McCullen will feature !
Yep, and it might be a good idea for series to document the history of conflict photography - from Fenton and Brady through to today.
The Marine in the thumb nail is
Phillip Mark Wilson
12 days later
Phillip died!
Superb
Thank you
The Newseum closed and is seeking a new home outside of Washington DC.
Great video as usual! But something bothers me. "War photography" and "artistic" in the same sentence is borderline obscene to me. I don't see how anyone could admire scenes of carnage, mayhem, death and mutilation as an artistic endeavor. Are they amazing photographs? Yes, absolutely. Because they capture the raw hell that is war, in a such a way that those who were fortunate enough not to experience it in real life can feel the fear, exhaustion, horror, pain and anguish of those on the battlefields of a useless war. I doubt that the photographer had an iota of artistic inclinations when taking any of these images. You say US army command referred to him 'an artist' - well of course they would if it fit their agenda of depicting a dirty war in a certain way for the folks at home. Finding artistic value in these types of images trivializes the subject matter.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Sergej.
With these this type of imagery, once is bound to find the lines of what we find 'acceptable' to be blurred somewhat. No doubt a lot of that comes from personal connection to either actual subject (Vietnam), or the broader concept (conflict).
A person who lived through either would understandably have a different perspective on the images. This of course is part of the beauty of photography, and art in general. We all interpret things in different ways. Indeed, we all have unique idea about what the word 'art' means.
It's interesting to see a very different take on the images from the one I have. My mine formed from being culturally and generationally removed from Vietnam and wars in general. The closest I've ever come to anything even remotely like conflict was living in South Africa in the 80/90's during the end days of Apartheid. Even that barely impacted on my world.
For a solider who lived through the horrors of that war, or any war, I'm sure their interpretation of the images would be very different. In fact there is a video about such reactions~ at the risk of sounding click baity, stick around for the reveal about halfway through.
th-cam.com/video/51Gww1W6aQc/w-d-xo.html
Thanks again for your comment, food for thought
Have you considered the fact that throughout the long history of Western art, battle scenes have been a recurrent theme in painting?
60,000 Americans died 4,000,000 Vietnamese need I add something?
This was as depressing as it was inspiring..