Hi, I am relatively new to Grim Dawn but I have few thousand hours in Path of Exile and you have not said key points why Grim Dawn (GD) is better than Path of Exile (PoE): 1. PoE looks at first glance that player has amazing customization of their character and skill gem system makes it seems like but it is an illusion that some players (like me) understood after too many hours spent in it. GD on the other hand gives you truly amazing combinations that make crazy builds work but sadly, at the first glance it doesn't seems so (this is something we and devs should work on it for newer players). 2. In PoE you get oneshoted and you don't know why even though you have ton of live or energy shield - you can't learn anything from it but to take it as it is "normal". It is not "hardcore" - it is stupid. In GD I see what killed me and I can learn from it and improve myself from such experience. 3. PoE is such a fast paced game that you really have only one option - make your build to kill entire screen. If you fail that, then your build is bad (even on normal difficulty or now-days pre Act 6). With so many skill gems and unique gear it becomes obvious that player don't have the choice: if player made a mistake while making a build - start all over (let us be honest you can't truly respec in PoE) or use build of someone else (that is not mine). With GD I can make the build I want and it is MY build, not the build that someone else made. And if I have made a mistake GD gives me true and honest option to improve it. 4. New expansion in GD doesn't force me to reset my progress as in PoE. As we saw recently, Atlas have been reset in Standard league twice in a row after a new expansion. We have real life and some of us can't spend mindless hours in grinding abysmally low drop of ever changing map system. 5. While PoE is made on Unreal Engine 3 which is supposedly work on a toaster yet it struggles to render everything when large amount of effects is displayed on a screen. GD on the other hand works on a non gaming PCs and can rotate environment giving true 3D game (I was on a trip and played it on a laptop with some bad Intel integrated graphics smoothly on a low settings - something you can't with PoE, it just says how more polished GD is in comparison). Those are some of the points I have made from the top of my mind. There are more of course but after so many hours spent in PoE, I finally came to the point where slower paced game like GD is actually way more enjoyable experience. EDIT: I forgot one of the most important points! 6. In a loot game GD actually have a loot filter made easy to be used from within the game. Not overly complicated loot nonsense we see in PoE! (Yes they could make same thing but they don't care)
I've played a ton of POE and I feel you on so many levels. I honestly hate the league system... Why would I want to create a new character every few months without perfecting the current build that I've been working on? I don't have the time or desire to play video games 24/7 like they want you to so I gave up on POE. Not to mention the fact that you can't even party up with random people to do quests and stuff like you could on D2... After reading your comment I think I'm going to give GD a try
After six months and 14-15 characters in PoE and all of them past the acts to lvl 92 I started to question why am I being picked on with no drops to help me achieve more? I was suggested GD. First thing that ripped it for me in PoE was #2 because there is no Combat log. wth?!? In every other game I have played I can tell what killed me, how much it hit me for, and what it hit me with so I could learn from it but not in PoE and to top that off you get to lose 5%, or 10% past act 10, each time you die and 10% is a lot time lost at 92 (I saw how much time that was for a 99 when he died). Next thing was #1 because it is a fallacy. Yes, I can pick up everything and probably can use it but to be viable it is all an illusion. #3 point is what I learned after these six months when a lvl 100 helped me get my 86 character rerolled into something better. All of the time I hear that you just start spinning and mow everything down and do not loot or you will die. They were right but there goes my fun. #4 point I did not experience, for the most part, as I played on Standard due to that nonsense then I got hit with a reset map that proved I was not safe even on Standard. ALL of my hard work, and time, down the toilet. #5 point is valid as I had to tweak a lot of stuff and one of the things was tweaking my video card to turn a modern setting off (pre render) to stop the stuttering in the game that so many have and the LAG, OMG, the lag is death on a cracker since CV19 that when it hits just stop and turn the game off. This lag came with Delirium and new memory leaks. GD is on sale but do I need crucible or Ashes or Forgotten?
Grim Dawn is awesome! 1) You can play it Offline! For some people this is a major issue 2) Music is fantastic 3) Skill trees allow for infinite play-styles and creativity - the replay value is endless 4) It truly is grim and the story-line is captivating 5) The devotion tree system is (as Pohx mentioned) absolutely ingenious and so rewarding 6) Enjoy loot? Grim Dawn has tons including many items which have special procs - like Diablo 2 had Compared to Path of Exile: 1) It supports mods and there are some really good ones and wip mods to look forward to (especially Apocalypse) 1) PoE can only be played online - unlike Grim Dawn 2) This is a very personal thing - but I cannot stand PoEs gem/skill system. It makes choosing your initial class and its progress almost meaningless - You find gems and items, you socket and you can become a ranged lightning class or a tank - just because you found some gem that allows you to do that. Really not my thing. 3) PoE doesn't support mods. Grim Dawn (as mentioned) does.
plus PoE for fashion gamers isnt happening.. you are basically having the same shitty looking armor the whole leveling experience... unless you pay for some transmogs from the microtransaction shop.. and of course you have to buy bag stashes if you are not a masochist. So if you enjoy the looks of your gear etc. best game is Diablo 3... then Grim Dawn... and long long after that PoE.
@@damonblack1495 disagreed on the fluff part unless you exclusively play with trading and your intentions are to min max then yes but if you want to enjoy the game or if you play ssf it's far from just *fluff* the system is great it's just that people like to lie to themselves about the reality of the system
@@MostWantedWannaBE From the way you worded the response I would gather min maxing or trying to get the best out of what your doing isn't a fun aspect for you. Fun is very subjective. Ok, so you like playing with what you pick up yourself. Don't care. And it doesn't matter how I like to play. I can play any other arpg out there the way your saying you like to play GD. I can take sub optimal crap in poe, d3 or whatever and complete the game and dick off. There is nothing special about it's progression system. Just looks different.
Cant tell you how many times where I got a new piece of gear in GD and spent several hours redoing my entire devotion tree and components to min max, and all of its pure theorycrafting. I don't know if what I did was the best thing for my character but Min Maxing in GD is the most rewarding experience that can't be found to that level in any other ARPG.
Underrated is the key word here. This is one of the best arpgs out there. I've got hundreds of hours logged and I still feel as thought there is more to explore.
overall i like poe better, but grim dawn is such a great change of pace. i like having a slower paced game to play when i get bored of poe. also i like the character building in grim dawn more, mostly for the reasons laid out in this video
Grim Dawn makes PoE feel simple. Never in PoE I feel like I need to read build guides to get things, but on GD there's just so much you can do it feels overwhelming; which is a good thing
Great beginner explanation! As i long time player i totally agree with u, its a great game and a worthy succesor to Titan Quest(on wich its skill system is based) and a nice game if u want to play at a slower pace and love lots of Lore :) Keep it up and hope u enjoy the new expansion as much as the rest of us!
This game is simply fantastic and with the new mobility skills introduced in Forgotten Gods, the so called slow feeling is gone. The game might be not as fast as PoE, but I personally like it as it is now.
I'm psyching myself up to get back into Grim Dawn. It's a lot to take in, you have to commit yourself to an actual RPG to progress in that game. Rep grinds, resistances that aren't exactly easy to come by, actual map exploring for shrines and one shot chests, devotion abilities that can change the way you go about combat. Path of Exile I'm guaranteed to reach maps and I'm guaranteed to never explore anything, it's an extremely casual RPG, with more actual action than a role to play, unless your role is economy farmer. Also the gear in GD has potential to look good. In PoE you have to buy anything that looks good. The 2 games have completely different methods of execution even though they're trying to be in the same genre.
driiifter Exactly. PoE is more casual than D3. GGG should rename their HC mode to LOM (log out macro) mode. Making your game a power creep fest with tons of filler content every 4 months, changing and making their only "worth" endgame content more grindy is far from fun.
Why should I leave a game to learn about the game? Especially when it's a mechanic that requires so much investment. Imagine if you bought the new Devil May Cry 5 game and all the purchasable combos weren't shown because the devs wanted you to watch someone else's video on what they looked like
@@relinfearous1343 What about the game shows that they encourage you to play through the majority of the story before even seeing what a tier 3 devotion looks like? I go back to my Devil May Cry 5 example where you can literally try the combo out for yourself before purchasing it, which is shown right beside the purchase button, proof that it's encouraged to try it out
My biggest issue with this game is that if you want to farm a specific area you have to relog to reset. As a necro with tons of summons and auras thats a no no for me.
That's only one of the parts of why Grim Dawn is beyond amazing... The 2nd part is the Devotion tree. The freedom to go pure glasscannon or make up weak parts of go massively defensive if you want to for any class is SO fantastic.
Grim Dawn is very interesting, beautiful game, you can spend hundreds of hours in it, but there is one thing. Slow responsiveness. When you click on the ground to start moving, when you click on the mob to attack it, click on the chest or when you cast a spell - it's all done so slowly and with a delay. Perhaps it's the old engine, perhaps it's physics and animation, maybe the game is not quite slow, but when I play it feels is that I play on the network with a huge ping. And when I play Path of Exile there is no such feeling of slow responsiveness at all, even if you are the first level in the first act, even before you have an attack speed of 0.1 / sec. This is why I stopped to play GD after going through the story or when hit level ~70. But the game is worth the money even if you just go through the storyline once.
They've made it better over time and theres now a couple of options addressing sepcifically this. Look in the options menu! Was my main gripe for a while too.
I choose to play very casually, but you really nailed this on the head. I think if a lot of people just took the time to sit down and dig into video games more, theres a lot of depth in Grim Dawn , you just have to choose to learn something. A lot of people that play PoE see streamers playing Zoom Zoom map farm and think theres no other way to play, people just need to be individuals and really sit and enjoy the games.
Glad to see your back in Grim Dawn. Each of the three top AARP games have both good and bad things in them. I am a veteran of all three, but I consider Grim Dawn my main game. One of the main things I like about Grim Dawn is also one of my major complaints about POE. I like POE's combat system, but.....the issues with being one-shotted is just ridiculous. I have even been one shotted from off screen. POE's damage is just way too spiky, most likely due to power creep. Grim Dawn on the other hand, has a very fluid damage scaling and there are very few times that you will ever be one shotted, and it will never be from something off screen. Another thing I really like in Grim Dawn is that character speed is capped....POE has basically become nothing more than a speed fest making much of the content irrelevant. All in all, I find Grim Dawn to be more stable game play wise. Everything in the game is finely balanced. POE is patched and updated often, and the meta and game play shifts almost every time, making it hard to stay on top of what works and what does not. I spent most of the last two months playing POE after being away from it for a while, and as it grows with each season, it becomes more and more unfriendly for newer players. Crafting is an absolute nightmare for newer players, with recipes spread out all over different seasonal content. POE is getting more and more complicated with each season and I am not sure how long they can keep it up and keep the game new player friendly. Grim Dawn has a nicely balanced crafting system that is not too complicated, and most recipes can be farmed while just playing the game....no need to go hunting for them as they are random drops. I have just a little over 2K hours in Grim Dawn and that is going to balloon thanks to the new expansion. Welcome back to Grim Dawn.
@Deathmetal Cakefarts i mean you can just farm uber elder. and dont use the argument that glacier gives more constant profit because flipping currency nets you more.
@Deathmetal Cakefarts so you dont want to farm in heavily farming game. Interesting. If you just buy all the gear you'll get burn out like in 1 day ya know
I absolutely despises PoE mapping because doing the same thing until my eyes bleed is not my kind of fun PLUS I am supposed to be fast and burn everything down without stopping and if the map takes more than 2 mins to finish either it is a bad map or your build is ruined it for me.
@@thebeststooge I agree that continuous mapping becomes dull very quickly. I go to work eight hours a day to earn currency to pay my bills....I don't really want to come home and work for currency in my free time. I quit the current league after only four weeks....got tired of playing "Path of Currency." Lately, I am just finding the game unfulfilling. Constantly playing for currency feels like a part time job. For the next league, I am going to try playing SSF to see if that changes how the game feels.
@rednab2001 I play SSF and had to leave that playstyle because you simply can't get the gear/items (at least for me) to drop that allows you to take on the world bosses and some mini bosses. A SSF in PoE I am finding turns it off gets the gear they need and turns it back on which defeats the SSF completely. Over on Ninja I copied a SSF (so called) build then found out there is no way to SSF in a league that lasts only for 90 days and have the gear he had. I was sad but that started my ill feelings and it has only gotten worse the higher level I have gotten. I just purchased GD and the two real DLC expansions for $32.98 and they are being downloaded now so later on I will play it (connection here is only 25mbps) to see how I like it in comparison. I spent 45 on PoE and all of that was for my stash just to be able to really play the game but for 5 months I didn't have them and it was rough to impossible.
Grimdawn build depth is INSANE but hard to even see when you start playing. The game has a much slower pace, which is good imo. GD is perfect for people who want to fight mobs and not HAVE to go fast to even do league contents. BTW why no lv1 utimate HC challenge ?
what i like most about this game is its singleplayer/co op. you can mod it, play it how you want. your not following a themed cookie cutter hamster wheel meta grind, it actually feels like an rpg.
Grim Dawn is a freaking amazing game. It's very underrated and needs some marketing badly. I tried my best to play path of exile but it's just so repetitive and too fast paced for my play style
love PoE and in my opinion is the best arpg hands down from whatever point of view. BUT!! when i got ma hands in GD i was amazed on how well desinged it is. i just fell in love with it and i am so glad i saw u Pohxplaying it and made me try to theory craft ma own build from your videos and twitch.
Thanks for sharing Pohx! I've been debating getting this and you pushed me over the top! Sooooo great sales pitch on your part and excellent explanation answering "If GD is for you or not"!
I'm so glad you came back on Grim Dawn mate! I tried to play PoE Synthesis. I really tried, after 4 leagues no playing. And heck I'm done with PoE. I don't find it fun anymore. Soooo when the Forgotten God's showed up: INSTABUY and play 😏 that's what I did and I truely enjoy Grim Dawn. As you said there's so much Theorycrafting and replayability possible that you can't be bored of it 🤔 Nice explaining for new players. Keep up the great work and keep enjoying what you're doing Pohx!
This comment is very long btw... There are a few things in Grim Dawn which hold it back for me as being an amazing game: One thing would be the lack of support for certain playstyles. Hybrid Summoner and full phys converted to vitality for example. Since the game releases with expansions instead of updates like Path of Exile, I may need to buy an expansion just to play a certain build. An example of this would be my Hybrid Vitality Decay Death Knight (Soldier/Necromancer) The character had Skeletons and Forcewave for clear with Boneharvest for extra pet damage and Terrify debuff (Plus degens from different sources stack). Forcewave is physical while Boneharvest is Vitality which is awkward to scale, so I tried to converted 100% physical to vitality since I had an item that gave 45% conversion with + levels to Forcewave. Looking online for items, I found out getting 100% conversion wasn't even possible because there wasn't enough items to convert fully, even though there are single legendaries that will convert 100% damage for you. The specific combination of skill and damage type that I picked just wasn't supported fully despite having an item that showed it may be possible. There are tier lists of mastery combinations based on how much support they have too if you want to get a glimpse of what combinations may work for you. The devotion tree has so many procs on it, but you don't know how a proc looks until you unlock it yourself which is a lot to ask when it comes to the Tier 3s. Since there's no easy 1 click reset for a fixed about of bits/crystals, you may do a massive amount of specs/respecing and min-maxing just to not like the proc. Working backwards on the devotion tree is slightly more complicated since you can't remove constellations if it gives you a bonus you currently need for another. As far as I know, the game also doesn't inform you that the low proc chances increase base on the cool down of the skill that is linked to it. Even planners don't show you the proc chance changes so they aren't helpful in that aspect. This one is more personal, but I also dislike Offensive/Defensive Ability. Offensive Ability is both chance to hit and chance to crit, while Defensive Ability is both chance to be hit and chance to be crit. Having both stats combined to one always makes me wonder if crit damage is beneficial or not. Since bosses have high Defensive Ability, you may pick up crit damage thinking it helps you, only to find out you never crit on bosses. At what point are you a crit build and when are you just a build trying to get accuracy? Until you learn what is seen as 'a lot' you don't quite know if you're a crit build or not. Compare that to other games where you just look at if the character has crit gear or not. Reflect is a thing and even though it does rotate on and off, it also reflects degens. If you play a phys degen build, watch out since phys resistance is rare. Off memory, (I just started playing again after a long break) I can't recall a tell for when the reflect aura reappears so it may appear as you're attack is going off Skills almost always have 2 elements instead of a single one. This may give you the feeling of being stuck with scaling 2 specific damage types until you learn what you can convert and how to convert them. On death effects are still a thing and can be insane in some areas. The poison plants in the Ashes of Malmouth expansion for example shoot massive AOE projectiles everywhere making it it very hard to dodge and will destroy you if you aren't capped resists. Some things I do enjoy more than Path of Exile however: Offline game. No need to worry about your internet being unstable or worrying that the company running the game is having issues with their servers. Being offline also gives you an isolated feel so you don't worry about playing a certain way just to "keep up" with other players (Something some Path of Exile players still worry about). Linked with being an offline game, it has mod support. Looking recently, it doesn't seem like the mods on Nexus get frequent updates, but if you have ever want a fresh feeling to the game, adding new masteries, bosses, items and so on may help increase it's longevity. Careful with the mods that make the game easier however as you may end up spoiling the whole experience before you really get invested. Exploration. Playing Path of Exile since the end of Ambush league, I always feel like going through the Acts just so I can start grinding in maps. In Grim Dawn however, since the acts are on a very large connected map with many quests, skill points, devotions shrines and secrets spread around, the feel of progression is way different. The mobs scale with your character to a point as well, so there isn't a huge sense of over leveling while you explore. Although you are stuck with the 3 difficulties again like other ARPGs, you'll spend a lot of time in a single difficulty making sure you collected all the skill points you can, and all the devotion shrines there are before moving on (Unless you just google how many there are in each difficulty). There are training dummies around (All?) town(s) so you can test out aspects of your character before attempting new areas. Really nice for hardcore players who may be afraid of dying to something new. Although the game speed may seem slow to some, it does mean most deaths come from being overwhelmed rather than being one shot, especially from something off screen. For those who think Path of Exile doesn't have one shots that aren't telegraphed btw, watch a RaizQT's Synthesis Highlight videos and see how he gets one shot from off screen by invisible attacks. In conclusion, it's hard to tell from watching some videos if Grim Dawn is right for you in my opinion. There are many things that are hard to grasp unless you experience it first hand. The game and it's expansions often go on sale, so if you're on the fence about a purchase, try picking up the base game first, see how things feel to you, then decide if the expansions are worth your time. I would recommend getting through the story of normal at least before deciding for sure if the expansions are worth it. This will give you enough time to play with most of the systems in the game and see how they all click for you personally.
@@okagisama I'll be honest and say that section was a mix of my own incompetence and it being late at night. Though it still doesn't help with not knowing how devotions look or mastery points being locked, which I forgot to mention since Pohx mentioned it quickly
GD is fantastic. 3k hours in I know. The things you are describing are, sorry to say this, learning the game issues. This is not D2, this is a much more complicated game and that gives it just its richness. But the downside to this is you have to try and try again untill you know how things work together. This is the reason why new players give up on GD and complain about it. But trust me, put in the work, experiment and things will get easiers and more satisfying. The possibilities are near infinite.
Some people thought this game is all about the legendaries but never saw the beauty of MI's actually complementing your build and are actually the BIS in some builds. Just the other day I saw Rashalga get rekt by pet build cabalist with a scepter MI iirc in under 10 seconds.
This right here is what makes the endgame so damn good. Trying to get those fkn amazing greens that will beat out even the best legendaries. And your farming route will be different for every build.
You want ultra-hardcore for Grim Dawn? Start a char at lvl1 on Ultimate difficulty AND use the mod called Grimmest. You usually end up with triple the mob density PLUS usually 5 heroes grouped together (even a few bosses you actually face THREE of instead of just the one).
@@Rokabur I have played Grimmest. I am also the author of the Grimtasia mod (note same user name on the forums), which goes a slightly different direction. I have boosted a lot of the regular mobs with new abilities, not just an increase of hero mobs. Currently working on adding a chance for affixes to uniques.
The Devotion tree is reaally fun and a unique concept it's very very overwhelming at first if you are new as you get lost where to start but once you get into it it's really cool i wish they add some sort of "search" function though, to make life easier, but again once you get used to it you start knowing what each of them will give you
There is a search function at the top of the devotion tab. You can use it to look for specific passives like offensive ability, elemental resistance...the nodes will be highlighted in red. Hope it helps
@@balmain2813 wait , has this always existed ? or is it implemented in this expansion ? because if it was there before then i swear i am blind x) if not then i guess thats normal since i didnt play the new exp yet thanks anyways !
With all things, there are pros and cons. This system is alright, but it could use some improvement. Pro: It's really cool that you can add further customization. I'm with you on that. Con: Build efficiency. Let's say I want to get big boy constellation XYZ for my saboteur class. I have to get 20 purple, and 7 blue. In order to get those 20 purple and 7 blue, one of the constellations I have to get, doesn't benefit my build statwise because it's for shield and pet stats. This is a hypothetical example, but I've tried to come up with constellation selections that give me the most benefit for the amount of devotion points, and sometimes there just aren't constellations that help me out with both the color of the constellation needed, and the stats that will most benefit the build I'm playing. They could remedy this by adding more constellations that are more broadly applicable, like health, health regen, resistances, etc. Yes, I'm aware that there are constellations that have health and regen and stuff, but sometimes there's not enough of those to get the colors you need for the big boy constellations, so you end up picking something that is less than optimal.
Also some Devotion procs have a greater recharge time than the up time of the buff which is bad if you want to use skills and attacks whenever and where ever you want. Well, they're just procs so maybe that's why? Was hoping they let us have higher skill level maximum in FG for the devotion proc skills (lvl 15 -> 20, lvl 20 -> 32) Would like to add this via a mod if possible (and the CD timer being lower as well)
I've tried grim damn and yeah, it's not for everyone. I feel like it has a few issues. The biggest one for me is a poorly adjusted difficulty curve. If you have a decent build or at least a decent idea for a build and start going at it. Yeah, it will probably work really fine, until you actually finish the first big boss at the castle and then suddenly enemies are very tough and take ages to kill. They also start dealing a ton of damage which you have difficulty dealing with. i'm not saying the game should be easy but throwing difficulty spikes like that is always a bad game design. The devotion tree is a bit of a cluster fuck. Somehow it feels like much more of a cluster fuck than PoE skill tree. The arbitrary deman of huge points into other trees to get stuff in the tree you want, having to respeck it in order to save points her and there. It's just unnecessary, it doesn't actually adds any depth, only unecessary complexity for the saky of saying it's a complex system which is yet again another big problem. Some people think simplifying things is the same as dumbing down. This isn't necessarely true. Simplifying things can be done without making it brainless. At the end of the day all that really matters is what things you are picking up, the bonus you are going for. Simplifying it so that you can more easily picture it and in many cases remove dumb restrictions would have massively helped this. The class system is yet another problem of the game. Sure you can respeck skills, but it is bad that you can't do it with class. Forcing a player to make a new character just because they found out that what they made is not exactly good on synergies is never a good looker. If it was single class, whatever but with the dual class nature of it at very least the second class should have been respeckable. Lastly about items. Items can indeed change the way you play something. The problem often lies not only with finding said build enabling item, but finding several pieces of it at different levels so that you can actually keep on doing it without being majorly gimped and again, that is even considering you can find it! All in all, Grim Dawn is a good idea but definitely not for everyone. I actually hoped at one point that it would be a good alternative to PoE but it isn't, not for me at least, some people rather like it. I had hopes for the upcoming torchlight frontiers but from all the streams I've seen so far it suffers from a major lack of killing speed and to me, spending too much time killing mobs is just insuferable in ARPGs. I like moving from pack to pack and blasting them quickly so oods are, that one turns out to be a bust too.
@@aenpien Maybe for you, but for me it's like, I am killing everything fast, once I start getting to the castle the DPS lowers a bit but it is still good enough, as soon as act 2 comes around it goes from being enough to being inneffective. Maybe there is something wrong indeed, I don't claim to have a huge knowledge of GD, but the pacing still feels wrong to me. A build that is going pretty well until then shouldn't go from doing pretty well to being insuficient. It clearly points to a difficulty spike that shouldn't exist. It should have a steady difficulty progression in my opinion.
@@Elhazzared84 One reason that many player begin strugling is because they try put many damage types as possibles in their build , wich weaken the attack value in the end. To avoid that you should only focus in 2 or 3 maximum damage types, to concentrate the damage you are doing ( and not saying is your case ). I never strugle in the firsts acts of this game,and im still a rookies in this game, but if you are not killing the stuff something is wrong. For example, im playing now a elemental sorcerer (focus mainly in fire damage), with the Pannety replicant missyles as main skill, and until now, almost 3 act im not having many dificulty kiling most stuff relativly quickly. Ps, Devastation skill is also crazy good( until now, at least).
@@luiscoelho77 I did a few different builds, most of them with plenty of thought pout into it and after testing the interaction between classes too, I remember installing something that allowed me to despec out of a class just to run some tests too. I was still having the problems after act 1. I was focusing on one type of damage only, I know how this goes, I've played many ARPGs to fall into the pitfall of newbie mistakes like not focusing on one type of damage and so on. Even the minion build which basically couldn't even suffer from that and was devastating early on lost steam when act 2 came into the picture. Granted not big loss there since the screen becomes a cluster fuck with way too many minion and effects going on.
Elhazzared84 nah. There is really something wrong with your build. Minion builds tend to kill shit very quickly and the main drawback to them is that you also have to gear ( your pets also need resists on top of damage as well as yourself ) for them. They tend to be very squishy without proper focus in them
Great intro friend! I bought GD awhile ago but haven't really played much as of yet. I was dissatisfied with the speed of play in the beginning but thanks to your intro I will be trying it out again.
Grim Dawn is nice, but I stopped playing due to the performances issues. Path of Exile has interesting things as well, things I would have liked to see in Grim Dawn: - socketed linked gems in your gear - gems you can upgrade - gear enchantments - mapping system as end game You can redo your skill tree in PoE as well, and it costs currency much like in GD. Let's do some interesting points: # Path of Exile - is 100% FREE to play! - monetization is via non win to play strategy (in game pets, gear decorations, stash upgrades) - releases new content and game modes a few times a year under the name of Leagues - has no performance issues - stories and all previous content is ported in a new League every single time, there for the content and lore is ever expanding and for new players is worth a few hundreds of game play hours Honestly, both of the games are worth playing and for any one out there, please, try them both, I am sure you will like them more or less equally.
You tried since the expansion? There is now a 64 bit executable and performance for me personally has been flawless on my 3 year old laptop (Geforce 950m).
Devotion is REALLY weird before you spent 200+ hours in the game. Hell, even now I'm still struggling to find optimal pathing. And some of the attributes placement is scattered, so it took some time to find which ones gives which attributes.
Once you reach the "end-game" the game _does_ revolve around sets, it's very unlikely that a lvl94 legendary set won't give the best stats and mods for your mastery combination. It's still very open with lots of options and I do have a lvl100 tactician who _doesn't_ use a lvl94 set but it's very questionable as to whether that is the best way to gear him (short answer: It's not). If you do want to push Shattered Realm, or even Crucible or just do secret bosses you will probably end up using one of the more established and balanced sets. If you don't have a defensive "hook" in the late-game like massive life-leech, or absurd -OA/DA to enemies you will probably end up getting crushed often, no matter how many hail-mary defensive procs you have equipped.
Unless they've changed things in the new expansion you can change classes mid game as well Pohx. You need to deallocate all points into that tree first, then close the hero sheet. Next time you bring it up it should give you the option to select your second class again. It was like that way for ages, I can't see why they'd take it away now. As for if someone should play Grim Dawn or not even comparing it to PoE is unfair as they are completely different experiences at this point.
Great video. I just bought the game for 6 bucks on Steam. Unfortunately I can’t play it now as I’m blind trying to squint at you in that dark ass room.
I reckon last Epoch will be much better when it's done, it has the complex mechanics and theorycrafting side, without all the garbage active skills of grim Dawn and the unflexible class system
@@Harmi-XD It's improved a lot, and still in alpha. Only one of these games where you can make a totem and minion summoner that is strong in both areas :)
@@CoolColJ I just waited to read where u wrote "Quin is playing it" Sure mate, i saw he is, but i would never support devs who ask me to pay 50$ for a fucking alpha, very greedy and disgusting imo, and on top of that i don't really like it more than Grim Dawn...been watching his stream for 5 hours atleast...not really impressed with the game.
I tried casually Grim Dawn a few times (I played a lot of diablo3 HC, still playing PoE softcore). I felt it was quite slow (as you stated) and the leveling phase took ages. I loved allocating my points into actual skills and passives diablo2-style). What I didn't like was the multitude of different types of resistance that exist (more than the classic 3 elemental + sometime a dot or poison one). I think it's too much to enjoy. And I felt that item drops were confusing. So many stats on items, value ranges of stats were changing so much I felt. It felt much harder to know what was important on the defensive aspects of the character. (even more than PoE which has only 3 res if we exclude special case chaos) I'm not too familiar with Grim Dawn ressources and tutorials if there is some beginner's guide like Engineering Eternity did for PoE for example ? I like how complex it seems to be, it draws me to retry it but each time I get kinda bored in the leveling process. I think I have the profile to be a fan of this game But i'm missing a few hands to really get hooked. Or maybe I'm just missing a sensei
@@hamj297 Been a hot minute since I haven't play Grim Dawn since right before Crucible came out but it used to be a pretty extensive mod adding classes and a bunch of balance/bug changes. Probably has grown since, but can't comment beyond what I remember it being.
@@hamj297 It's apparently a compilation of other mods including additional classes with a bunch of other stuff. Here's (I think) the dude who released it's thread on the GD forums. The info/questions you're looking for will likely be there www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77514
I really like the game, played almost as much as PoE, even wrote a guide for it on steam, but there is one undeniable issue with the game. Savegame data not being saved server side but locally. I think everyone knows what that means (cheating small or big time) which ruins the community and gameplay value overall. In my eyes to guarantee a fair cheat free environment is the most important thing to enable proper multiplayer, which is among other reason as well already second compared to PoE.
You mean like the D3 "cheat free" environment?? You would be surprised how little cheating (if at all) is present in our GD HC community compared to the server side data model of D3 lol. I stopped playing diablo after that terrible season when all top HC spots where taken by botters. PoE has its own share of botters. On the other hand, when you play with your friends and your toon dies, they all see it. So there's no cheating that would fix your honor if you were to restore it. There's way more value in such a gameplay. But if there's a server lag/crash/DC and everyone dies, - it's up to that group to decide whether it's an exception and they should resurrect themselves or beat it and reroll. To tell you more, there're virtually no botters in GD as there's no huge incentive for it.
@@marlowencna One option has not to exclude the other and I would care little about what people do on their own. As long as they don't interfere with others, who are aware of the fact that cheating will extinguish all fun and interest beyond recall.
PoE fanboys hate on GD cause it is actually far better and has no fake depth. You get what you see. In GD EVERYTHING you see skill/gear wise, will work in the endgame. Every skill is useful, every passive on the devotion section is useful unlike in PoE where 90% of their gear and skills/passives are useless filler. I was one of the GD haters, but one day I decided to look at it in an unbiased way and I found out how good this game really is compared to PoE. Too bad Gods expansion is the last one. There won't be more stuff being added to the game. P.S. The most important reason why GD is the better option for me is... you don't need to be online to play it plus, that sexy D2 mod.
The main problem i see with this game is that I would say 90% of ARPG players would focus on a single character if they could, Very very very few HC players make a lvl 100 char in poe and think to themselves "You know what would be fun... doing this again but with a new character." In regards to this Endgame must be good, There need to be some kind of endgame and a REASON to min max. Diablo II and WoW had PVP which by itself was a driving force to make your character stronger and stronger every passing day, just to get the slight advantage over other players. If a game try to force me into remaking characters over and over so that i could test the rest of the skills, it loses me within 1 week that i finish the game.
How many hours do you have in GD? Asking because it does address your points. Having invested about 3k hours in it and leveled about 7-8 HC characters to 100 (fully geared), I find it very easy and rewarding to try new builds in GD. You don't have to level through the main campaign, just do the crucible instead and once you reach a high enough level, you then rush through the game using 2-3 different teleporting skills (eg chaos strike on both wep+offhand). It takes only a day or two to have a new toon all the way up to 100. My gripe with the game is the stash management as I always run out of room and having mules and managing storage becomes a pain eventually. Other than that you are virtually limitless when it comes to build possibilities. And why wouldn't you wanna try new builds/classes? Pretty much everyone I play with (btw, GD multiplayer is pretty good even for HC, haven't lost a single toon due to DC/crashes yet) have several characters, all fully geared. My friends love experimenting. It gives new ideas, new OP synergies and more fun to play. It's not the same as gearing a PoE alt. That's a whole another topic haha.
I started playing both GD and PoE at the same time. I finished GD and never went back. The game is slower paced but it looks beautiful. Maps are huge af and enemies ragdoll. I prefer PoE because of the faster gameplay and tonnes of features. Both games are great and both games have rooms to improve. Get GD when its on sales!
I missed it at a previous Steam sale, saw your previous video about leaving PoE for a while which I had done already too, I didn't miss it last sales and I have a blast, I'm 46 on my main RN and so far I have a blast, this hack 'n slash done right for me for now. Just the feeling, the physics, not feeling like slaying 3D weightless sprites like in PoE, played it 2 leagues and a half and PoE is too much all over the place for me. Now Grim Dawn, I'm really liking just the feeling of it, then comes the great skill system, and devotion, also cults, I'm a Demolitionist/Shaman playing melee 2H, got auras that reserves mana like PoE, offensive and defensive procs and granted skills everywhere, a strong pet that distracts and dps, I throw bombs but before they land my 2h often destroys everything. The boss fights are cool, not too fast, not too easy either. When I die I know I suck or need to recheck my gear. New inventory stashes unlocks as I level up and I can buy stash tabs for my vaults, and there are shared ones too (I'm lucky to have this right from the start, it's brand new i think) with the main currency from vendoring stuff. Nothing bad to say so far, maybe end game is currently lacking, I'm not sure, I don't care, it'll take a while before I get there, and I've started a summoner in coop too so plenty of time ahead before boredom.
Glad to see another GD fan, and in case you were actually wondering, mythical handguards of justice converts 100% physical damage to fire on forcewave.. www.grimtools.com/db/items/9119
Poe tried to get the Pantheon into the game with buffs, but its just tiny and players simply stick to 1 big god and 1 small god and never change it at all. PoE could extend it to the levels of Grim Dawns constellations, which would be a great expansion and with the possibilities to gather souls and upgrades for the gods, it could turn into a 2nd skill tree to manage. Passive Skill tree could be expanded to put exp points into passive skills to allow them to grow in power over time, or put in some barriers and couple it with ingame archivements to "unlock" parts of the passive skill tree. They even could go further and RANDOMIZE the passive skill tree entirely, so every passive skill tree is different for all players. The sky is the limit, PoE can expand its system infinitely and produce more high end content that requires all of these growth potential.
I respect you enjoying Grim Dawn, and I also respect other people enjoying it. And I personally used to LOOOOVE Titan Quest back in the days, I've prolly spent thousands of hours on it, and I regret none of that time. But I also got to say, after watching a few streamers playing it (unfortunately not you included, cus you haven't been online when I'm browsing twitch, so we'll call that unlucky timing I suppose :P) I think it's not for me anymore. Whilst the multi classing in TQ was imo, way more enjoyable than how classes and builds worked in D2, it's a little bit too slow for me after I've spent almost 3k hours in PoE. Now this is not me saying a slower game is bad, or that a faster game is better, it's just me saying that it probably isn't for me. I'm basing it on purely the fact from watching others play, and playing TQ for a few days when the latest expansion came on Steam. Now this isn't me writing the game off, I got to admit. I was a sucker for TQ as previously stated, so if I ever get some spare money, I'll throw em their way and try it out and judge for myself. But for now, I'm honestly only here for the PoE content :) I hope you have a good time with GD. And I'm sure you will, you seem so happy and giddy (is that the word?) when talking about it, and that kind of positive attitude rubs over on viewers :D
i swear this game is awesome ive played it when it first launched n have 3 chars max out.. but i didnt have time lately but know im playing again and customizing your char is the best thing.
Playing grim dawn with friends really really fun. Making your own build feels really good in this game compared to poe. I don't think I've had a build in grim dawn that felt unplayable. My favorite part about grim dawn is when I die I played bad I feel like I can dodge stuff unlike poe were it feels like some enemy's attacks hit you even when u are miles away.
exactly. If it continues in this direction it will literally kill itself. They keep adding so much bullshit to the game without optimizing the existing issues that have been there for years. PoE will only recover if they fire Chris, his design philosophy is total bullshit.
@@gpm-grownpeoplemusic9176 It has always been this way and I have been playing since beta...blowing up the screen was the ultimate direction of this game, it was only a matter of time...the whole idea of PoE is just getting BIG numbers instead of weaving together multiple skills, you use 1 dps skill that has been buffed by 1000 different ways and 1000 layers. The only other skills you might use in PoE is a mobility skill and...you guessed it...a skill to boost your 1 button spam dps skill...something like a curse or 3.
*IMO the problem in Grim Dawn is that you MUST explore all maps through and through, otherwise you'll end up missing something important. In PoE that does not happen. That's why I like PoE in a way more, but tbh Grim Dawn is fricking awesome.*
There are a couple of musts indeed, but they added so much more places to get a devotion with the new dlc that you don't need to pick them all up. There is a 'secret' quest you kinda have to search for for a skill point and a attribute point, but that is pretty much it.
It's been like 3 years but I stopped because I got bored of playing with basically one skill. This game you choose one attack skill, build upon it and stack passive skills. It was fun but boring. Probably I'm a scrub but IDK. Best thing about the game is it's offline so zero lag.
I love both games. Both have a very deep skill/leveling-system, which I love to explore. The only problem I have with GD is that the UI is very clunky. While POE is also not the best in this regards, POE provides a lot more tools for sorting or filtering for what you need.
Hi, nice video. I am a Path of Exile player. And I have a question... If I choose to follow a build, how can I get the gear required for the build ? Trade in GD seems to be extremely complex and hard compared with Path of Exile. If I want something in POE, it can be hard to get because the price is extremely high, but I know that when I get the currency it will be there available to be bought. In Grim Dawn it seems to me that items are not available 99% of the time, so, if I get the currency and if I play for several months and if I am very lucky I can buy the item, otherwise, I must use any other item, because the suggested item is not possible to get, unless it drops to me. So I can't choose a build. I need to wait to some extremely good item to drop and then search a build that use that item and follow that build. I don't know if I am right or not, but when I tried to play multiplayer I got a 1 screen servers and I couldn't play with anyone, so I suppose that if I wanted to buy an item it would be impossible as much as play with other person. What I am talking about is "interaction with other players". Interaction with other players seems to be very complicated to me. But as I am very noob, I may be completely wrong... Can you clarify it to me? I mean, is it an easy (simple) trade way? Is it an easy (simple) multiplayer way?
theyve made it feel more responsive now for sure. look in the options menu. one of the big things for me was casting a spell youd walk over to where youd be in range so it felt really unresponsive. now theres an option for that. get in there!
I like your enthusiasm, i personally enjoy gd, but given your comparison to poe, you failed to bring up how much harder it is in gd to actually get those build defining legendary items. Hell, i've put 200 hours into game and end game, and i've yet to see a single item im looking for drop. Let alone the 5 i want. EDIT: oops, made two posts.
In PoE it will also take you forever to drop a specific item, let alone 5. The thing is PoE is completely based around trading, so it's easier to buy what you want. We forgot how old games single player games used to work, like Diablo 2. You either grind you ass off for a drop or wait as long looking for sellers on some kind of forum just so you can create a private server just to trade...which is also impractical.
witchking20 well, it while I agree GD is a fun game, grinding anything to the point of days is impractical unless you are a streamer, or jobless. In PoE, you can always combo things via with gems, while the set equip is build defining. Heck in GD, if I have some legendaries that is good, I made a new char for the equips 😆
i dont get how people dont see that GD actually has more...Each class has its OWN skill tree...Then the constellation is almost as big as the POE skill tree??? Like I love POE but im tired of hearing that it has a WAY more "in depth skill tree"
As someone who has been playing POE exclusively for the last couple of years, I think it's too fast. I don't like the that the vast majority of mobs melt immediately with an average dps build. It's time to try something different and Grim Dawn looks pretty interesting based on your assessment.
Which one? 🤔 AoM is new story, new reputations, new bosses and new gear. (pretty nice expansion overall) and the last one Forgotten Gods which just released is the same + new class combo + infinite endgame like Diablo's greater rifts :)
You should really give it a try, this game is absolutely amazing. As a fan of ARPG genre, I can assure you that right now, only 2 ARPG are worth playing: Path of Exile if you like nervous and over punishing gameplay (even on softcore), and Grim Dawn. GD is a bit slower, but heck it's story and lore are great, classes are awesome and the endgame grind for legendary gear, even if it's tedious it's still fun :))
When I played AoM the sets were actually very meta for end game. So I am very skeptical when I hear this expansion makes that no longer the case. After getting level 100 in hardcore and completing a couple of major sets (as like it said it was super meta) I felt like I had kind of whipped the games ass. I even found a mod that merely increased the difficulty of the game but it wasn't enough to hold my attention. I would only be interested in the expansion if it adds more than just a few things to the end game.
yo pox is this game worth 60 dollars ? its 60 for everything complete combined its not on sale atm on steam also can my shit pc run it ? ryzen 5 1500x,8gb ddr 4,gtx 1050 ti
Hey. Great video... is GD worth it playing now, as a absolute beginner? Tried PoE but, meeh... D3 is Lost and i wanna play the nicest ARPG in 2019. Is that GD?
After one of my friends that we were playing at a point use a trainer and showed me what he made .... it ruined the fun for me somehow . I need the online protection barrier i think .... also even if you just interact way more less then in a MMORPG for example the fact you can trade with people and have that kind of economy like in Poe are things i wish i can have with grim dawn so i have the perfect game :P
I like both games but where Grim Dawn went wrong was the stages of release, it initially didn't have multiplayer, and then when it was added it was lack luster and really not to many incentives to play multiplayer so for an arpg thats kinda a big meh *shrugs*
maybe its changed, but from what i remember about poe and even d2 for that matter was nobody really "played" multiplayer, you just traded with other people to reduce the grind but everybody still farms solo in the end so i dont really understand that argument. seems like more the case that people aren't liking the fact that no multiplayer means no trade economy to shortcut your gear progression and therefore just arent really into SSF, and that's fine. the drops in GD are more forgiving and balanced around this fact i'd say, and not being pretentious about multiplayer in any way was actually a design advantage for me over other arpgs. One nice thing about arpgs of today is there is a gameplay experience somewhere out there to suit everyone's playstyle and preference.
@@divinedbag if you think nobody played d2 multiplayer you must be really young, or even in today dont player ladder....the way you play d2 is hardcore ladder you need people to do chaos and baal runs only time your alone is doing MF runs if you even MF, in recent years a lot of youtubers just speed run and play mods n shit...that aint what d2 was about but to each his own.
I really liked Grim Dawn, and love POE. Couple of things though: did grim Dawn add a map overlay? Crazy not to have it. And did the expansion change the itemization a bit? Without a supportive community like POE I had a hard time figuring out what the hell to invest in
I liked Grim Dawn before but I'm kinda spoiled by how the ACTS are handled by PoE. I don't want to go back repeating the acts 2-3 times to get to the end game. CMIIW. I haven't played Grim Dawn for years.
grim dawn is awesome, the comunity forum is full of ppl that will help new players understand most of the game and writing newcomers guides. i picked it up last year and its been a blast, i dont have a lvl 100 char yet cus i was swapping toons a lot trying classes xD
I love Grim Dawn. It's classic. The dual mastery has always been a genius idea of Titan Quest.
Hi, I am relatively new to Grim Dawn but I have few thousand hours in Path of Exile and you have not said key points why Grim Dawn (GD) is better than Path of Exile (PoE):
1. PoE looks at first glance that player has amazing customization of their character and skill gem system makes it seems like but it is an illusion that some players (like me) understood after too many hours spent in it. GD on the other hand gives you truly amazing combinations that make crazy builds work but sadly, at the first glance it doesn't seems so (this is something we and devs should work on it for newer players).
2. In PoE you get oneshoted and you don't know why even though you have ton of live or energy shield - you can't learn anything from it but to take it as it is "normal". It is not "hardcore" - it is stupid. In GD I see what killed me and I can learn from it and improve myself from such experience.
3. PoE is such a fast paced game that you really have only one option - make your build to kill entire screen. If you fail that, then your build is bad (even on normal difficulty or now-days pre Act 6). With so many skill gems and unique gear it becomes obvious that player don't have the choice: if player made a mistake while making a build - start all over (let us be honest you can't truly respec in PoE) or use build of someone else (that is not mine). With GD I can make the build I want and it is MY build, not the build that someone else made. And if I have made a mistake GD gives me true and honest option to improve it.
4. New expansion in GD doesn't force me to reset my progress as in PoE. As we saw recently, Atlas have been reset in Standard league twice in a row after a new expansion. We have real life and some of us can't spend mindless hours in grinding abysmally low drop of ever changing map system.
5. While PoE is made on Unreal Engine 3 which is supposedly work on a toaster yet it struggles to render everything when large amount of effects is displayed on a screen. GD on the other hand works on a non gaming PCs and can rotate environment giving true 3D game (I was on a trip and played it on a laptop with some bad Intel integrated graphics smoothly on a low settings - something you can't with PoE, it just says how more polished GD is in comparison).
Those are some of the points I have made from the top of my mind. There are more of course but after so many hours spent in PoE, I finally came to the point where slower paced game like GD is actually way more enjoyable experience.
EDIT: I forgot one of the most important points!
6. In a loot game GD actually have a loot filter made easy to be used from within the game. Not overly complicated loot nonsense we see in PoE! (Yes they could make same thing but they don't care)
i like the 2nd reason lol
I've played a ton of POE and I feel you on so many levels. I honestly hate the league system... Why would I want to create a new character every few months without perfecting the current build that I've been working on? I don't have the time or desire to play video games 24/7 like they want you to so I gave up on POE. Not to mention the fact that you can't even party up with random people to do quests and stuff like you could on D2... After reading your comment I think I'm going to give GD a try
After six months and 14-15 characters in PoE and all of them past the acts to lvl 92 I started to question why am I being picked on with no drops to help me achieve more? I was suggested GD. First thing that ripped it for me in PoE was #2 because there is no Combat log. wth?!? In every other game I have played I can tell what killed me, how much it hit me for, and what it hit me with so I could learn from it but not in PoE and to top that off you get to lose 5%, or 10% past act 10, each time you die and 10% is a lot time lost at 92 (I saw how much time that was for a 99 when he died). Next thing was #1 because it is a fallacy. Yes, I can pick up everything and probably can use it but to be viable it is all an illusion.
#3 point is what I learned after these six months when a lvl 100 helped me get my 86 character rerolled into something better. All of the time I hear that you just start spinning and mow everything down and do not loot or you will die. They were right but there goes my fun.
#4 point I did not experience, for the most part, as I played on Standard due to that nonsense then I got hit with a reset map that proved I was not safe even on Standard. ALL of my hard work, and time, down the toilet.
#5 point is valid as I had to tweak a lot of stuff and one of the things was tweaking my video card to turn a modern setting off (pre render) to stop the stuttering in the game that so many have and the LAG, OMG, the lag is death on a cracker since CV19 that when it hits just stop and turn the game off. This lag came with Delirium and new memory leaks.
GD is on sale but do I need crucible or Ashes or Forgotten?
"In any game you play, 80% should be a big number."
Sweats in Diablo 3's set pieces increasing one skills damage by upwards of 15,000%
Upwards of 15,000%? +75,000% impale damage on shadow gear set.
Most importantly, Grim Dawn has GUNS! You can play Revolver Ocelot in Grim Dawn.
Grim Dawn is awesome!
1) You can play it Offline! For some people this is a major issue
2) Music is fantastic
3) Skill trees allow for infinite play-styles and creativity - the replay value is endless
4) It truly is grim and the story-line is captivating
5) The devotion tree system is (as Pohx mentioned) absolutely ingenious and so rewarding
6) Enjoy loot? Grim Dawn has tons including many items which have special procs - like Diablo 2 had
Compared to Path of Exile:
1) It supports mods and there are some really good ones and wip mods to look forward to (especially Apocalypse)
1) PoE can only be played online - unlike Grim Dawn
2) This is a very personal thing - but I cannot stand PoEs gem/skill system. It makes choosing your initial class and its progress almost meaningless - You find gems and items, you socket and you can become a ranged lightning class or a tank - just because you found some gem that allows you to do that. Really not my thing.
3) PoE doesn't support mods. Grim Dawn (as mentioned) does.
plus PoE for fashion gamers isnt happening.. you are basically having the same shitty looking armor the whole leveling experience... unless you pay for some transmogs from the microtransaction shop.. and of course you have to buy bag stashes if you are not a masochist. So if you enjoy the looks of your gear etc. best game is Diablo 3... then Grim Dawn... and long long after that PoE.
I used to think that PoE's skill tree was dope then there's Grim Dawn's devotion system. I realized that PoE's was more of a stat tree.
it is a stat tree
i personally dislike it
Both of them are, imo, fluff. Always a best way for each setup.
@@damonblack1495 disagreed on the fluff part
unless you exclusively play with trading and your intentions are to min max then yes
but if you want to enjoy the game or if you play ssf it's far from just *fluff*
the system is great it's just that people like to lie to themselves about the reality of the system
@@MostWantedWannaBE From the way you worded the response I would gather min maxing or trying to get the best out of what your doing isn't a fun aspect for you. Fun is very subjective. Ok, so you like playing with what you pick up yourself. Don't care. And it doesn't matter how I like to play. I can play any other arpg out there the way your saying you like to play GD. I can take sub optimal crap in poe, d3 or whatever and complete the game and dick off. There is nothing special about it's progression system. Just looks different.
@@damonblack1495 the process of min maxing isn''t fun
the result is
really just depends on what you want from the game
Cant tell you how many times where I got a new piece of gear in GD and spent several hours redoing my entire devotion tree and components to min max, and all of its pure theorycrafting. I don't know if what I did was the best thing for my character but Min Maxing in GD is the most rewarding experience that can't be found to that level in any other ARPG.
That sounds awful. I want to play a game, not spend hours "optimizing" or bit twiddling just to make skills and items work competitively
@@VndNvwYvvSvv Well you don't have to. If it sounds awful to you, then don't do it.
@@mp7311 I'm sure I won't, but I find it frustrating that so many games seem to require it.
Thanks for you dedication Pohx, this game is so underrated
People are spoiled with free games, like PoE and Warframe.
@Samuel Wallace It's perfectly free, I've only spent like half a grand on it...
Underrated is the key word here. This is one of the best arpgs out there. I've got hundreds of hours logged and I still feel as thought there is more to explore.
warmongerism I’ve got hundreds of hours on grim dawn too, and haven’t even reached endgame. I just make new characters trying new things.
Carl Bernroth they need to stop adding those awesome cosmetics haha.
overall i like poe better, but grim dawn is such a great change of pace. i like having a slower paced game to play when i get bored of poe. also i like the character building in grim dawn more, mostly for the reasons laid out in this video
Grim Dawn makes PoE feel simple. Never in PoE I feel like I need to read build guides to get things, but on GD there's just so much you can do it feels overwhelming; which is a good thing
@@ezet Have never had that feeling in any arpg :)
@@Dpx1338 Well GD is the first one. mainly because confusing mechanisms.
i personally feel the more measured pace of combat is more strategic than in PoE. a bit more like D1 or D2.
@@ezet GD is clunky, slow and just boring.
I love this guy. Hes an honest person and Gamer. Glad to see you on GD again dude!
Great beginner explanation!
As i long time player i totally agree with u, its a great game and a worthy succesor to Titan Quest(on wich its skill system is based) and a nice game if u want to play at a slower pace and love lots of Lore :)
Keep it up and hope u enjoy the new expansion as much as the rest of us!
I can confirm, this game is great. It's the closest thing we're going to get to a true Diablo 2 successor.
This game is simply fantastic and with the new mobility skills introduced in Forgotten Gods, the so called slow feeling is gone. The game might be not as fast as PoE, but I personally like it as it is now.
I'm psyching myself up to get back into Grim Dawn. It's a lot to take in, you have to commit yourself to an actual RPG to progress in that game. Rep grinds, resistances that aren't exactly easy to come by, actual map exploring for shrines and one shot chests, devotion abilities that can change the way you go about combat. Path of Exile I'm guaranteed to reach maps and I'm guaranteed to never explore anything, it's an extremely casual RPG, with more actual action than a role to play, unless your role is economy farmer. Also the gear in GD has potential to look good. In PoE you have to buy anything that looks good. The 2 games have completely different methods of execution even though they're trying to be in the same genre.
driiifter Exactly. PoE is more casual than D3. GGG should rename their HC mode to LOM (log out macro) mode.
Making your game a power creep fest with tons of filler content every 4 months, changing and making their only "worth" endgame content more grindy is far from fun.
The devotion tree would be the best system ever if it had clips showing what the procs looked like
theres a yt video on all the procs
tru, would be a great QoL.
Why should I leave a game to learn about the game? Especially when it's a mechanic that requires so much investment. Imagine if you bought the new Devil May Cry 5 game and all the purchasable combos weren't shown because the devs wanted you to watch someone else's video on what they looked like
You're encouraged to try things out for yourself
@@relinfearous1343 What about the game shows that they encourage you to play through the majority of the story before even seeing what a tier 3 devotion looks like? I go back to my Devil May Cry 5 example where you can literally try the combo out for yourself before purchasing it, which is shown right beside the purchase button, proof that it's encouraged to try it out
My biggest issue with this game is that if you want to farm a specific area you have to relog to reset. As a necro with tons of summons and auras thats a no no for me.
yeah the auras not lasting is annoying. even more annoying is MOBS REMOVING YOUR AURAS IN COMBAT. it drives me nuts!
I really love character development system in GD/TQ. For me it's the best thing that has been implemented in any arpg.
That's only one of the parts of why Grim Dawn is beyond amazing... The 2nd part is the Devotion tree. The freedom to go pure glasscannon or make up weak parts of go massively defensive if you want to for any class is SO fantastic.
Grim Dawn is very interesting, beautiful game, you can spend hundreds of hours in it, but there is one thing. Slow responsiveness. When you click on the ground to start moving, when you click on the mob to attack it, click on the chest or when you cast a spell - it's all done so slowly and with a delay. Perhaps it's the old engine, perhaps it's physics and animation, maybe the game is not quite slow, but when I play it feels is that I play on the network with a huge ping. And when I play Path of Exile there is no such feeling of slow responsiveness at all, even if you are the first level in the first act, even before you have an attack speed of 0.1 / sec. This is why I stopped to play GD after going through the story or when hit level ~70.
But the game is worth the money even if you just go through the storyline once.
They've made it better over time and theres now a couple of options addressing sepcifically this. Look in the options menu! Was my main gripe for a while too.
I choose to play very casually, but you really nailed this on the head. I think if a lot of people just took the time to sit down and dig into video games more, theres a lot of depth in Grim Dawn , you just have to choose to learn something. A lot of people that play PoE see streamers playing Zoom Zoom map farm and think theres no other way to play, people just need to be individuals and really sit and enjoy the games.
Alright calm dowm you convinced me im buying the game .... (._.(
You would be right to.
Ahahahah he convinced me too :)
Glad to see your back in Grim Dawn. Each of the three top AARP games have both good and bad things in them. I am a veteran of all three, but I consider Grim Dawn my main game. One of the main things I like about Grim Dawn is also one of my major complaints about POE. I like POE's combat system, but.....the issues with being one-shotted is just ridiculous. I have even been one shotted from off screen. POE's damage is just way too spiky, most likely due to power creep. Grim Dawn on the other hand, has a very fluid damage scaling and there are very few times that you will ever be one shotted, and it will never be from something off screen. Another thing I really like in Grim Dawn is that character speed is capped....POE has basically become nothing more than a speed fest making much of the content irrelevant. All in all, I find Grim Dawn to be more stable game play wise. Everything in the game is finely balanced. POE is patched and updated often, and the meta and game play shifts almost every time, making it hard to stay on top of what works and what does not. I spent most of the last two months playing POE after being away from it for a while, and as it grows with each season, it becomes more and more unfriendly for newer players. Crafting is an absolute nightmare for newer players, with recipes spread out all over different seasonal content. POE is getting more and more complicated with each season and I am not sure how long they can keep it up and keep the game new player friendly. Grim Dawn has a nicely balanced crafting system that is not too complicated, and most recipes can be farmed while just playing the game....no need to go hunting for them as they are random drops. I have just a little over 2K hours in Grim Dawn and that is going to balloon thanks to the new expansion. Welcome back to Grim Dawn.
@Deathmetal Cakefarts i mean you can just farm uber elder. and dont use the argument that glacier gives more constant profit because flipping currency nets you more.
@Deathmetal Cakefarts so you dont want to farm in heavily farming game. Interesting. If you just buy all the gear you'll get burn out like in 1 day ya know
I absolutely despises PoE mapping because doing the same thing until my eyes bleed is not my kind of fun PLUS I am supposed to be fast and burn everything down without stopping and if the map takes more than 2 mins to finish either it is a bad map or your build is ruined it for me.
@@thebeststooge I agree that continuous mapping becomes dull very quickly. I go to work eight hours a day to earn currency to pay my bills....I don't really want to come home and work for currency in my free time. I quit the current league after only four weeks....got tired of playing "Path of Currency." Lately, I am just finding the game unfulfilling. Constantly playing for currency feels like a part time job. For the next league, I am going to try playing SSF to see if that changes how the game feels.
@rednab2001 I play SSF and had to leave that playstyle because you simply can't get the gear/items (at least for me) to drop that allows you to take on the world bosses and some mini bosses. A SSF in PoE I am finding turns it off gets the gear they need and turns it back on which defeats the SSF completely. Over on Ninja I copied a SSF (so called) build then found out there is no way to SSF in a league that lasts only for 90 days and have the gear he had. I was sad but that started my ill feelings and it has only gotten worse the higher level I have gotten.
I just purchased GD and the two real DLC expansions for $32.98 and they are being downloaded now so later on I will play it (connection here is only 25mbps) to see how I like it in comparison. I spent 45 on PoE and all of that was for my stash just to be able to really play the game but for 5 months I didn't have them and it was rough to impossible.
Grimdawn build depth is INSANE but hard to even see when you start playing. The game has a much slower pace, which is good imo.
GD is perfect for people who want to fight mobs and not HAVE to go fast to even do league contents.
BTW why no lv1 utimate HC challenge ?
what i like most about this game is its singleplayer/co op. you can mod it, play it how you want. your not following a themed cookie cutter hamster wheel meta grind, it actually feels like an rpg.
WHOA What are you talking about "More things to do in life than Endgame" My sir, what is "life" and how are the drop rates?
Grim Dawn is a freaking amazing game. It's very underrated and needs some marketing badly. I tried my best to play path of exile but it's just so repetitive and too fast paced for my play style
love PoE and in my opinion is the best arpg hands down from whatever point of view. BUT!! when i got ma hands in GD i was amazed on how well desinged it is. i just fell in love with it and i am so glad i saw u Pohxplaying it and made me try to theory craft ma own build from your videos and twitch.
Thanks for sharing Pohx! I've been debating getting this and you pushed me over the top! Sooooo great sales pitch on your part and excellent explanation answering "If GD is for you or not"!
I'm so glad you came back on Grim Dawn mate!
I tried to play PoE Synthesis. I really tried, after 4 leagues no playing. And heck I'm done with PoE. I don't find it fun anymore.
Soooo when the Forgotten God's showed up: INSTABUY and play 😏 that's what I did and I truely enjoy Grim Dawn. As you said there's so much Theorycrafting and replayability possible that you can't be bored of it 🤔
Nice explaining for new players. Keep up the great work and keep enjoying what you're doing Pohx!
Would be nice to see a video on different playstyles and skills, like what style of gameplay i might like.
good call
This comment is very long btw...
There are a few things in Grim Dawn which hold it back for me as being an amazing game:
One thing would be the lack of support for certain playstyles. Hybrid Summoner and full phys converted to vitality for example. Since the game releases with expansions instead of updates like Path of Exile, I may need to buy an expansion just to play a certain build. An example of this would be my Hybrid Vitality Decay Death Knight (Soldier/Necromancer) The character had Skeletons and Forcewave for clear with Boneharvest for extra pet damage and Terrify debuff (Plus degens from different sources stack). Forcewave is physical while Boneharvest is Vitality which is awkward to scale, so I tried to converted 100% physical to vitality since I had an item that gave 45% conversion with + levels to Forcewave. Looking online for items, I found out getting 100% conversion wasn't even possible because there wasn't enough items to convert fully, even though there are single legendaries that will convert 100% damage for you. The specific combination of skill and damage type that I picked just wasn't supported fully despite having an item that showed it may be possible. There are tier lists of mastery combinations based on how much support they have too if you want to get a glimpse of what combinations may work for you.
The devotion tree has so many procs on it, but you don't know how a proc looks until you unlock it yourself which is a lot to ask when it comes to the Tier 3s. Since there's no easy 1 click reset for a fixed about of bits/crystals, you may do a massive amount of specs/respecing and min-maxing just to not like the proc. Working backwards on the devotion tree is slightly more complicated since you can't remove constellations if it gives you a bonus you currently need for another. As far as I know, the game also doesn't inform you that the low proc chances increase base on the cool down of the skill that is linked to it. Even planners don't show you the proc chance changes so they aren't helpful in that aspect.
This one is more personal, but I also dislike Offensive/Defensive Ability. Offensive Ability is both chance to hit and chance to crit, while Defensive Ability is both chance to be hit and chance to be crit. Having both stats combined to one always makes me wonder if crit damage is beneficial or not. Since bosses have high Defensive Ability, you may pick up crit damage thinking it helps you, only to find out you never crit on bosses. At what point are you a crit build and when are you just a build trying to get accuracy? Until you learn what is seen as 'a lot' you don't quite know if you're a crit build or not. Compare that to other games where you just look at if the character has crit gear or not.
Reflect is a thing and even though it does rotate on and off, it also reflects degens. If you play a phys degen build, watch out since phys resistance is rare. Off memory, (I just started playing again after a long break) I can't recall a tell for when the reflect aura reappears so it may appear as you're attack is going off
Skills almost always have 2 elements instead of a single one. This may give you the feeling of being stuck with scaling 2 specific damage types until you learn what you can convert and how to convert them.
On death effects are still a thing and can be insane in some areas. The poison plants in the Ashes of Malmouth expansion for example shoot massive AOE projectiles everywhere making it it very hard to dodge and will destroy you if you aren't capped resists.
Some things I do enjoy more than Path of Exile however:
Offline game. No need to worry about your internet being unstable or worrying that the company running the game is having issues with their servers. Being offline also gives you an isolated feel so you don't worry about playing a certain way just to "keep up" with other players (Something some Path of Exile players still worry about).
Linked with being an offline game, it has mod support. Looking recently, it doesn't seem like the mods on Nexus get frequent updates, but if you have ever want a fresh feeling to the game, adding new masteries, bosses, items and so on may help increase it's longevity. Careful with the mods that make the game easier however as you may end up spoiling the whole experience before you really get invested.
Exploration. Playing Path of Exile since the end of Ambush league, I always feel like going through the Acts just so I can start grinding in maps. In Grim Dawn however, since the acts are on a very large connected map with many quests, skill points, devotions shrines and secrets spread around, the feel of progression is way different. The mobs scale with your character to a point as well, so there isn't a huge sense of over leveling while you explore. Although you are stuck with the 3 difficulties again like other ARPGs, you'll spend a lot of time in a single difficulty making sure you collected all the skill points you can, and all the devotion shrines there are before moving on (Unless you just google how many there are in each difficulty).
There are training dummies around (All?) town(s) so you can test out aspects of your character before attempting new areas. Really nice for hardcore players who may be afraid of dying to something new.
Although the game speed may seem slow to some, it does mean most deaths come from being overwhelmed rather than being one shot, especially from something off screen. For those who think Path of Exile doesn't have one shots that aren't telegraphed btw, watch a RaizQT's Synthesis Highlight videos and see how he gets one shot from off screen by invisible attacks.
In conclusion, it's hard to tell from watching some videos if Grim Dawn is right for you in my opinion. There are many things that are hard to grasp unless you experience it first hand. The game and it's expansions often go on sale, so if you're on the fence about a purchase, try picking up the base game first, see how things feel to you, then decide if the expansions are worth your time. I would recommend getting through the story of normal at least before deciding for sure if the expansions are worth it. This will give you enough time to play with most of the systems in the game and see how they all click for you personally.
Not saying this to be rude but it sounds like to me you need to play it further.
@@Mikey92186 What exactly makes it sound like that
@@Tibasu The "undo" button in Devotion tree i'd say, same as skills.
@@okagisama I'll be honest and say that section was a mix of my own incompetence and it being late at night. Though it still doesn't help with not knowing how devotions look or mastery points being locked, which I forgot to mention since Pohx mentioned it quickly
GD is fantastic. 3k hours in I know. The things you are describing are, sorry to say this, learning the game issues. This is not D2, this is a much more complicated game and that gives it just its richness. But the downside to this is you have to try and try again untill you know how things work together. This is the reason why new players give up on GD and complain about it. But trust me, put in the work, experiment and things will get easiers and more satisfying. The possibilities are near infinite.
Some people thought this game is all about the legendaries but never saw the beauty of MI's actually complementing your build and are actually the BIS in some builds.
Just the other day I saw Rashalga get rekt by pet build cabalist with a scepter MI iirc in under 10 seconds.
This right here is what makes the endgame so damn good. Trying to get those fkn amazing greens that will beat out even the best legendaries. And your farming route will be different for every build.
There are also beginner builds that use pretty much ONLY faction gear.
As everyone has said, I also, LOVE PoE. BUT, Grim Dawn has so much more in terms of character "flavor". I also am just a sucker for item sets.
I like Grim Dawn for hardcore and POE for softcore.
You want ultra-hardcore for Grim Dawn? Start a char at lvl1 on Ultimate difficulty AND use the mod called Grimmest. You usually end up with triple the mob density PLUS usually 5 heroes grouped together (even a few bosses you actually face THREE of instead of just the one).
@@Rokabur I have played Grimmest. I am also the author of the Grimtasia mod (note same user name on the forums), which goes a slightly different direction. I have boosted a lot of the regular mobs with new abilities, not just an increase of hero mobs. Currently working on adding a chance for affixes to uniques.
I love Grim Dawn ♥ , Grim Dawn and Titan Quest Ragnarok.
The Devotion tree is reaally fun and a unique concept
it's very very overwhelming at first if you are new as you get lost where to start but once you get into it it's really cool
i wish they add some sort of "search" function though, to make life easier, but again once you get used to it you start knowing what each of them will give you
There is a search function at the top of the devotion tab. You can use it to look for specific passives like offensive ability, elemental resistance...the nodes will be highlighted in red. Hope it helps
@@balmain2813 wait , has this always existed ? or is it implemented in this expansion ? because if it was there before then i swear i am blind x)
if not then i guess thats normal since i didnt play the new exp yet
thanks anyways !
With all things, there are pros and cons. This system is alright, but it could use some improvement.
Pro: It's really cool that you can add further customization. I'm with you on that.
Con: Build efficiency. Let's say I want to get big boy constellation XYZ for my saboteur class. I have to get 20 purple, and 7 blue. In order to get those 20 purple and 7 blue, one of the constellations I have to get, doesn't benefit my build statwise because it's for shield and pet stats. This is a hypothetical example, but I've tried to come up with constellation selections that give me the most benefit for the amount of devotion points, and sometimes there just aren't constellations that help me out with both the color of the constellation needed, and the stats that will most benefit the build I'm playing.
They could remedy this by adding more constellations that are more broadly applicable, like health, health regen, resistances, etc.
Yes, I'm aware that there are constellations that have health and regen and stuff, but sometimes there's not enough of those to get the colors you need for the big boy constellations, so you end up picking something that is less than optimal.
Grim Dawn, the underdog
More people need to play, it's fantastic.
Also some Devotion procs have a greater recharge time than the up time of the buff which is bad if you want to use skills and attacks whenever and where ever you want.
Well, they're just procs so maybe that's why?
Was hoping they let us have higher skill level maximum in FG for the devotion proc skills (lvl 15 -> 20, lvl 20 -> 32)
Would like to add this via a mod if possible (and the CD timer being lower as well)
I've tried grim damn and yeah, it's not for everyone. I feel like it has a few issues.
The biggest one for me is a poorly adjusted difficulty curve. If you have a decent build or at least a decent idea for a build and start going at it. Yeah, it will probably work really fine, until you actually finish the first big boss at the castle and then suddenly enemies are very tough and take ages to kill. They also start dealing a ton of damage which you have difficulty dealing with. i'm not saying the game should be easy but throwing difficulty spikes like that is always a bad game design.
The devotion tree is a bit of a cluster fuck. Somehow it feels like much more of a cluster fuck than PoE skill tree. The arbitrary deman of huge points into other trees to get stuff in the tree you want, having to respeck it in order to save points her and there. It's just unnecessary, it doesn't actually adds any depth, only unecessary complexity for the saky of saying it's a complex system which is yet again another big problem. Some people think simplifying things is the same as dumbing down. This isn't necessarely true. Simplifying things can be done without making it brainless. At the end of the day all that really matters is what things you are picking up, the bonus you are going for. Simplifying it so that you can more easily picture it and in many cases remove dumb restrictions would have massively helped this.
The class system is yet another problem of the game. Sure you can respeck skills, but it is bad that you can't do it with class. Forcing a player to make a new character just because they found out that what they made is not exactly good on synergies is never a good looker. If it was single class, whatever but with the dual class nature of it at very least the second class should have been respeckable.
Lastly about items. Items can indeed change the way you play something. The problem often lies not only with finding said build enabling item, but finding several pieces of it at different levels so that you can actually keep on doing it without being majorly gimped and again, that is even considering you can find it!
All in all, Grim Dawn is a good idea but definitely not for everyone. I actually hoped at one point that it would be a good alternative to PoE but it isn't, not for me at least, some people rather like it. I had hopes for the upcoming torchlight frontiers but from all the streams I've seen so far it suffers from a major lack of killing speed and to me, spending too much time killing mobs is just insuferable in ARPGs. I like moving from pack to pack and blasting them quickly so oods are, that one turns out to be a bust too.
Good comment but if the start of act 2 is difficult for you something is very wrong with your build.
@@aenpien Maybe for you, but for me it's like, I am killing everything fast, once I start getting to the castle the DPS lowers a bit but it is still good enough, as soon as act 2 comes around it goes from being enough to being inneffective. Maybe there is something wrong indeed, I don't claim to have a huge knowledge of GD, but the pacing still feels wrong to me. A build that is going pretty well until then shouldn't go from doing pretty well to being insuficient. It clearly points to a difficulty spike that shouldn't exist. It should have a steady difficulty progression in my opinion.
@@Elhazzared84 One reason that many player begin strugling is because they try put many damage types as possibles in their build , wich weaken the attack value in the end. To avoid that you should only focus in 2 or 3 maximum damage types, to concentrate the damage you are doing ( and not saying is your case ).
I never strugle in the firsts acts of this game,and im still a rookies in this game, but if you are not killing the stuff something is wrong.
For example, im playing now a elemental sorcerer (focus mainly in fire damage), with the Pannety replicant missyles as main skill, and until now, almost 3 act im not having many dificulty kiling most stuff relativly quickly.
Ps, Devastation skill is also crazy good( until now, at least).
@@luiscoelho77 I did a few different builds, most of them with plenty of thought pout into it and after testing the interaction between classes too, I remember installing something that allowed me to despec out of a class just to run some tests too. I was still having the problems after act 1. I was focusing on one type of damage only, I know how this goes, I've played many ARPGs to fall into the pitfall of newbie mistakes like not focusing on one type of damage and so on. Even the minion build which basically couldn't even suffer from that and was devastating early on lost steam when act 2 came into the picture. Granted not big loss there since the screen becomes a cluster fuck with way too many minion and effects going on.
Elhazzared84 nah. There is really something wrong with your build. Minion builds tend to kill shit very quickly and the main drawback to them is that you also have to gear ( your pets also need resists on top of damage as well as yourself ) for them. They tend to be very squishy without proper focus in them
Lol, dude I have truly been struggling with this very question. Thank you.
Great intro friend! I bought GD awhile ago but haven't really played much as of yet. I was dissatisfied with the speed of play in the beginning but thanks to your intro I will be trying it out again.
Grim Dawn is nice, but I stopped playing due to the performances issues.
Path of Exile has interesting things as well, things I would have liked to see in Grim Dawn:
- socketed linked gems in your gear
- gems you can upgrade
- gear enchantments
- mapping system as end game
You can redo your skill tree in PoE as well, and it costs currency much like in GD.
Let's do some interesting points:
# Path of Exile
- is 100% FREE to play!
- monetization is via non win to play strategy (in game pets, gear decorations, stash upgrades)
- releases new content and game modes a few times a year under the name of Leagues
- has no performance issues
- stories and all previous content is ported in a new League every single time, there for the content and lore is ever expanding and for new players is worth a few hundreds of game play hours
Honestly, both of the games are worth playing and for any one out there, please, try them both, I am sure you will like them more or less equally.
You tried since the expansion? There is now a 64 bit executable and performance for me personally has been flawless on my 3 year old laptop (Geforce 950m).
Devotion is REALLY weird before you spent 200+ hours in the game. Hell, even now I'm still struggling to find optimal pathing. And some of the attributes placement is scattered, so it took some time to find which ones gives which attributes.
Once you reach the "end-game" the game _does_ revolve around sets, it's very unlikely that a lvl94 legendary set won't give the best stats and mods for your mastery combination. It's still very open with lots of options and I do have a lvl100 tactician who _doesn't_ use a lvl94 set but it's very questionable as to whether that is the best way to gear him (short answer: It's not). If you do want to push Shattered Realm, or even Crucible or just do secret bosses you will probably end up using one of the more established and balanced sets. If you don't have a defensive "hook" in the late-game like massive life-leech, or absurd -OA/DA to enemies you will probably end up getting crushed often, no matter how many hail-mary defensive procs you have equipped.
Best thing about the game is that it can be played offline.... got me through some hard weeks with no internet. =]
Unless they've changed things in the new expansion you can change classes mid game as well Pohx. You need to deallocate all points into that tree first, then close the hero sheet. Next time you bring it up it should give you the option to select your second class again. It was like that way for ages, I can't see why they'd take it away now. As for if someone should play Grim Dawn or not even comparing it to PoE is unfair as they are completely different experiences at this point.
bought it this morning. Just jumped in blind
Almost 800 hours in Grim Dawn so far, and with the new expansion out now I'm still loving it to death.
This is very usefull. www.grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat.php
Great video. I just bought the game for 6 bucks on Steam. Unfortunately I can’t play it now as I’m blind trying to squint at you in that dark ass room.
Sonar Tech77 lmfao
The only arpg worth playing other than PoE
I reckon last Epoch will be much better when it's done, it has the complex mechanics and theorycrafting side, without all the garbage active skills of grim Dawn and the unflexible class system
@@CoolColJ but it's not currently, I looked a bit into it last years and wasn't impressed by it at all
@@Harmi-XD It's improved a lot, and still in alpha. Only one of these games where you can make a totem and minion summoner that is strong in both areas :)
@@Harmi-XD Quinn69 is currently playing it on Twitch :) www.twitch.tv/quin69
@@CoolColJ I just waited to read where u wrote "Quin is playing it" Sure mate, i saw he is, but i would never support devs who ask me to pay 50$ for a fucking alpha, very greedy and disgusting imo, and on top of that i don't really like it more than Grim Dawn...been watching his stream for 5 hours atleast...not really impressed with the game.
I tried casually Grim Dawn a few times (I played a lot of diablo3 HC, still playing PoE softcore).
I felt it was quite slow (as you stated) and the leveling phase took ages. I loved allocating my points into actual skills and passives diablo2-style).
What I didn't like was the multitude of different types of resistance that exist (more than the classic 3 elemental + sometime a dot or poison one). I think it's too much to enjoy. And I felt that item drops were confusing. So many stats on items, value ranges of stats were changing so much I felt.
It felt much harder to know what was important on the defensive aspects of the character. (even more than PoE which has only 3 res if we exclude special case chaos)
I'm not too familiar with Grim Dawn ressources and tutorials if there is some beginner's guide like Engineering Eternity did for PoE for example ?
I like how complex it seems to be, it draws me to retry it but each time I get kinda bored in the leveling process. I think I have the profile to be a fan of this game But i'm missing a few hands to really get hooked.
Or maybe I'm just missing a sensei
1300+ hours in Grim Dawn here. No regrets. Almost half of it is out of "Grimarillion" mod, can recommend.
What is grimarillion?
@@hamj297 Been a hot minute since I haven't play Grim Dawn since right before Crucible came out but it used to be a pretty extensive mod adding classes and a bunch of balance/bug changes. Probably has grown since, but can't comment beyond what I remember it being.
@@davidrosensin7985 Added classes? What kind of classes?
@@hamj297 It's apparently a compilation of other mods including additional classes with a bunch of other stuff. Here's (I think) the dude who released it's thread on the GD forums. The info/questions you're looking for will likely be there
www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77514
@@davidrosensin7985 Thanks.
I really like the game, played almost as much as PoE, even wrote a guide for it on steam, but there is one undeniable issue with the game. Savegame data not being saved server side but locally. I think everyone knows what that means (cheating small or big time) which ruins the community and gameplay value overall. In my eyes to guarantee a fair cheat free environment is the most important thing to enable proper multiplayer, which is among other reason as well already second compared to PoE.
Ironically, I enjoy playing arpg locally. Solo. Zero social aspect. Lol
You mean like the D3 "cheat free" environment?? You would be surprised how little cheating (if at all) is present in our GD HC community compared to the server side data model of D3 lol. I stopped playing diablo after that terrible season when all top HC spots where taken by botters. PoE has its own share of botters. On the other hand, when you play with your friends and your toon dies, they all see it. So there's no cheating that would fix your honor if you were to restore it. There's way more value in such a gameplay. But if there's a server lag/crash/DC and everyone dies, - it's up to that group to decide whether it's an exception and they should resurrect themselves or beat it and reroll. To tell you more, there're virtually no botters in GD as there's no huge incentive for it.
@@huitzilopochtli4655 I don't do drugs.
@@marlowencna One option has not to exclude the other and I would care little about what people do on their own. As long as they don't interfere with others, who are aware of the fact that cheating will extinguish all fun and interest beyond recall.
PoE fanboys hate on GD cause it is actually far better and has no fake depth. You get what you see. In GD EVERYTHING you see skill/gear wise, will work in the endgame. Every skill is useful, every passive on the devotion section is useful unlike in PoE where 90% of their gear and skills/passives are useless filler.
I was one of the GD haters, but one day I decided to look at it in an unbiased way and I found out how good this game really is compared to PoE.
Too bad Gods expansion is the last one. There won't be more stuff being added to the game.
P.S. The most important reason why GD is the better option for me is... you don't need to be online to play it plus, that sexy D2 mod.
The main problem i see with this game is that I would say 90% of ARPG players would focus on a single character if they could, Very very very few HC players make a lvl 100 char in poe and think to themselves "You know what would be fun... doing this again but with a new character." In regards to this Endgame must be good, There need to be some kind of endgame and a REASON to min max. Diablo II and WoW had PVP which by itself was a driving force to make your character stronger and stronger every passing day, just to get the slight advantage over other players. If a game try to force me into remaking characters over and over so that i could test the rest of the skills, it loses me within 1 week that i finish the game.
How many hours do you have in GD? Asking because it does address your points. Having invested about 3k hours in it and leveled about 7-8 HC characters to 100 (fully geared), I find it very easy and rewarding to try new builds in GD. You don't have to level through the main campaign, just do the crucible instead and once you reach a high enough level, you then rush through the game using 2-3 different teleporting skills (eg chaos strike on both wep+offhand). It takes only a day or two to have a new toon all the way up to 100.
My gripe with the game is the stash management as I always run out of room and having mules and managing storage becomes a pain eventually.
Other than that you are virtually limitless when it comes to build possibilities. And why wouldn't you wanna try new builds/classes? Pretty much everyone I play with (btw, GD multiplayer is pretty good even for HC, haven't lost a single toon due to DC/crashes yet) have several characters, all fully geared. My friends love experimenting. It gives new ideas, new OP synergies and more fun to play. It's not the same as gearing a PoE alt. That's a whole another topic haha.
fuck, that "do you want to play a crit summoner" got me. Im sold
I started playing both GD and PoE at the same time. I finished GD and never went back. The game is slower paced but it looks beautiful. Maps are huge af and enemies ragdoll.
I prefer PoE because of the faster gameplay and tonnes of features. Both games are great and both games have rooms to improve. Get GD when its on sales!
True, but GD is so cheap even if it was twice the price and never on sale it would still be worth it.
I missed it at a previous Steam sale, saw your previous video about leaving PoE for a while which I had done already too, I didn't miss it last sales and I have a blast, I'm 46 on my main RN and so far I have a blast, this hack 'n slash done right for me for now. Just the feeling, the physics, not feeling like slaying 3D weightless sprites like in PoE, played it 2 leagues and a half and PoE is too much all over the place for me.
Now Grim Dawn, I'm really liking just the feeling of it, then comes the great skill system, and devotion, also cults, I'm a Demolitionist/Shaman playing melee 2H, got auras that reserves mana like PoE, offensive and defensive procs and granted skills everywhere, a strong pet that distracts and dps, I throw bombs but before they land my 2h often destroys everything.
The boss fights are cool, not too fast, not too easy either. When I die I know I suck or need to recheck my gear.
New inventory stashes unlocks as I level up and I can buy stash tabs for my vaults, and there are shared ones too (I'm lucky to have this right from the start, it's brand new i think) with the main currency from vendoring stuff. Nothing bad to say so far, maybe end game is currently lacking, I'm not sure, I don't care, it'll take a while before I get there, and I've started a summoner in coop too so plenty of time ahead before boredom.
The epic drop rate is sooooo much better its INSANE
Looks a lot more like Titan Quest, from skill and inventory UI at least
Same developers. The game and its systems are recognizable to any Titan Quest player almost immediately, at least in form.
its a spiritual successor/sequel, plus same devs i think
@@Harmi-XD Many of the same devs PLUS they have the Iron Lore engine used for Titan Quest, just HEAVILY updated for Grim Dawn.
Glad to see another GD fan, and in case you were actually wondering, mythical handguards of justice converts 100% physical damage to fire on forcewave.. www.grimtools.com/db/items/9119
Poe tried to get the Pantheon into the game with buffs, but its just tiny and players simply stick to 1 big god and 1 small god and never change it at all.
PoE could extend it to the levels of Grim Dawns constellations, which would be a great expansion and with the possibilities to gather souls and upgrades for the gods, it could turn into a 2nd skill tree to manage.
Passive Skill tree could be expanded to put exp points into passive skills to allow them to grow in power over time, or put in some barriers and couple it with ingame archivements to "unlock" parts of the passive skill tree.
They even could go further and RANDOMIZE the passive skill tree entirely, so every passive skill tree is different for all players.
The sky is the limit, PoE can expand its system infinitely and produce more high end content that requires all of these growth potential.
I respect you enjoying Grim Dawn, and I also respect other people enjoying it. And I personally used to LOOOOVE Titan Quest back in the days, I've prolly spent thousands of hours on it, and I regret none of that time. But I also got to say, after watching a few streamers playing it (unfortunately not you included, cus you haven't been online when I'm browsing twitch, so we'll call that unlucky timing I suppose :P) I think it's not for me anymore. Whilst the multi classing in TQ was imo, way more enjoyable than how classes and builds worked in D2, it's a little bit too slow for me after I've spent almost 3k hours in PoE. Now this is not me saying a slower game is bad, or that a faster game is better, it's just me saying that it probably isn't for me. I'm basing it on purely the fact from watching others play, and playing TQ for a few days when the latest expansion came on Steam.
Now this isn't me writing the game off, I got to admit. I was a sucker for TQ as previously stated, so if I ever get some spare money, I'll throw em their way and try it out and judge for myself. But for now, I'm honestly only here for the PoE content :)
I hope you have a good time with GD. And I'm sure you will, you seem so happy and giddy (is that the word?) when talking about it, and that kind of positive attitude rubs over on viewers :D
The game is great but you should buy the full version, with all the DLC.
I have 490 hours in Grim Dawn, and I still enjoy it.
i swear this game is awesome ive played it when it first launched n have 3 chars max out.. but i didnt have time lately but know im playing again and customizing your char is the best thing.
Playing grim dawn with friends really really fun. Making your own build feels really good in this game compared to poe. I don't think I've had a build in grim dawn that felt unplayable. My favorite part about grim dawn is when I die I played bad I feel like I can dodge stuff unlike poe were it feels like some enemy's attacks hit you even when u are miles away.
PoE atm is just overcomplicated shadow of itself.
exactly. If it continues in this direction it will literally kill itself. They keep adding so much bullshit to the game without optimizing the existing issues that have been there for years. PoE will only recover if they fire Chris, his design philosophy is total bullshit.
@@gpm-grownpeoplemusic9176 It has always been this way and I have been playing since beta...blowing up the screen was the ultimate direction of this game, it was only a matter of time...the whole idea of PoE is just getting BIG numbers instead of weaving together multiple skills, you use 1 dps skill that has been buffed by 1000 different ways and 1000 layers. The only other skills you might use in PoE is a mobility skill and...you guessed it...a skill to boost your 1 button spam dps skill...something like a curse or 3.
can you play this without an internet connection?
Yes, you can.
*IMO the problem in Grim Dawn is that you MUST explore all maps through and through, otherwise you'll end up missing something important. In PoE that does not happen. That's why I like PoE in a way more, but tbh Grim Dawn is fricking awesome.*
There are a couple of musts indeed, but they added so much more places to get a devotion with the new dlc that you don't need to pick them all up. There is a 'secret' quest you kinda have to search for for a skill point and a attribute point, but that is pretty much it.
I dont have the newest DLC and most likely not going to get it, two reasons: money and interest. Currently so much into Conan :'D
It's been like 3 years but I stopped because I got bored of playing with basically one skill. This game you choose one attack skill, build upon it and stack passive skills. It was fun but boring. Probably I'm a scrub but IDK. Best thing about the game is it's offline so zero lag.
That smile. I'm happy to see you enjoying again.
lol wtf
I love both games. Both have a very deep skill/leveling-system, which I love to explore. The only problem I have with GD is that the UI is very clunky. While POE is also not the best in this regards, POE provides a lot more tools for sorting or filtering for what you need.
I don't find it too clunky myself but I think it could do with a customizable ui
Hi, nice video. I am a Path of Exile player. And I have a question... If I choose to follow a build, how can I get the gear required for the build ?
Trade in GD seems to be extremely complex and hard compared with Path of Exile. If I want something in POE, it can be hard to get because the price is extremely high, but I know that when I get the currency it will be there available to be bought. In Grim Dawn it seems to me that items are not available 99% of the time, so, if I get the currency and if I play for several months and if I am very lucky I can buy the item, otherwise, I must use any other item, because the suggested item is not possible to get, unless it drops to me. So I can't choose a build. I need to wait to some extremely good item to drop and then search a build that use that item and follow that build. I don't know if I am right or not, but when I tried to play multiplayer I got a 1 screen servers and I couldn't play with anyone, so I suppose that if I wanted to buy an item it would be impossible as much as play with other person. What I am talking about is "interaction with other players". Interaction with other players seems to be very complicated to me. But as I am very noob, I may be completely wrong... Can you clarify it to me? I mean, is it an easy (simple) trade way? Is it an easy (simple) multiplayer way?
Any game i play 80% should be a big number?
I've played Cookie Clicker, Ive played Venture Capitalist.... mate
Ive been thinking about checking this game out and your video was quite helpful. Thank you ^_^
The game is great, everyone can agree with this
Insanely helpful video thanks for the tips. Enjoying the learning experience of the game.
I actually like the combat much more than in other games.
I played a few years back and it was always a delay when pressing attacks to seeing it actually happen on screen.
theyve made it feel more responsive now for sure. look in the options menu. one of the big things for me was casting a spell youd walk over to where youd be in range so it felt really unresponsive. now theres an option for that. get in there!
Any tips on how to smooth out the long standing screen jags? About the only thing that's kept me from putting more time into GD.
I like your enthusiasm, i personally enjoy gd, but given your comparison to poe, you failed to bring up how much harder it is in gd to actually get those build defining legendary items. Hell, i've put 200 hours into game and end game, and i've yet to see a single item im looking for drop. Let alone the 5 i want.
EDIT: oops, made two posts.
theshadowcult people need to know this. The random rng for a set drops is just ridiculous.
Use transmutation
In PoE it will also take you forever to drop a specific item, let alone 5. The thing is PoE is completely based around trading, so it's easier to buy what you want. We forgot how old games single player games used to work, like Diablo 2. You either grind you ass off for a drop or wait as long looking for sellers on some kind of forum just so you can create a private server just to trade...which is also impractical.
witchking20 well, it while I agree GD is a fun game, grinding anything to the point of days is impractical unless you are a streamer, or jobless. In PoE, you can always combo things via with gems, while the set equip is build defining. Heck in GD, if I have some legendaries that is good, I made a new char for the equips 😆
200 hours is nothing. Try 2000.
i dont get how people dont see that GD actually has more...Each class has its OWN skill tree...Then the constellation is almost as big as the POE skill tree??? Like I love POE but im tired of hearing that it has a WAY more "in depth skill tree"
As someone who has been playing POE exclusively for the last couple of years, I think it's too fast. I don't like the that the vast majority of mobs melt immediately with an average dps build.
It's time to try something different and Grim Dawn looks pretty interesting based on your assessment.
can i play grim dawn without connection
ya
Pohx thank you so much and can i play path of exile without connection have any ideas?
I haven't looked into Grim Dawn much, what does the dlc content consist of?
Which one? 🤔 AoM is new story, new reputations, new bosses and new gear. (pretty nice expansion overall) and the last one Forgotten Gods which just released is the same + new class combo + infinite endgame like Diablo's greater rifts :)
You should really give it a try, this game is absolutely amazing. As a fan of ARPG genre, I can assure you that right now, only 2 ARPG are worth playing: Path of Exile if you like nervous and over punishing gameplay (even on softcore), and Grim Dawn. GD is a bit slower, but heck it's story and lore are great, classes are awesome and the endgame grind for legendary gear, even if it's tedious it's still fun :))
The costs for undoing skill points were extremely high like 2 years ago, is it still that expensive?
no its cheap. even as a new character playing around with different skills of a class its affordable nowadays.
Hope to see you back on poe next big update but also glad to see you creating content that makes you happy! Stay you brother
I remember that the infinite stash and other people stash free item files transfer killed me.... is there a Mod that doesn’t allow file transfer..?
When I played AoM the sets were actually very meta for end game. So I am very skeptical when I hear this expansion makes that no longer the case. After getting level 100 in hardcore and completing a couple of major sets (as like it said it was super meta) I felt like I had kind of whipped the games ass. I even found a mod that merely increased the difficulty of the game but it wasn't enough to hold my attention. I would only be interested in the expansion if it adds more than just a few things to the end game.
I'm just here because of long hiatus from GD. God damn i want to play oathkeeper.
yo pox is this game worth 60 dollars ? its 60 for everything complete combined its not on sale atm on steam also can my shit pc run it ? ryzen 5 1500x,8gb ddr 4,gtx 1050 ti
Hey. Great video... is GD worth it playing now, as a absolute beginner? Tried PoE but, meeh... D3 is Lost and i wanna play the nicest ARPG in 2019. Is that GD?
It is imo.
After one of my friends that we were playing at a point use a trainer and showed me what he made .... it ruined the fun for me somehow . I need the online protection barrier i think .... also even if you just interact way more less then in a MMORPG for example the fact you can trade with people and have that kind of economy like in Poe are things i wish i can have with grim dawn so i have the perfect game :P
That skill tree looks awfully similar to Titan Quest
Grim Dawn is basically a Titan Quest, but on steroids
Developed by the same guys with the same engine, it explains a lot.
I bought grim dawn to support the developers because I really enjoyed titan quest
I like both games but where Grim Dawn went wrong was the stages of release, it initially didn't have multiplayer, and then when it was added it was lack luster and really not to many incentives to play multiplayer so for an arpg thats kinda a big meh *shrugs*
maybe its changed, but from what i remember about poe and even d2 for that matter was nobody really "played" multiplayer, you just traded with other people to reduce the grind but everybody still farms solo in the end so i dont really understand that argument. seems like more the case that people aren't liking the fact that no multiplayer means no trade economy to shortcut your gear progression and therefore just arent really into SSF, and that's fine. the drops in GD are more forgiving and balanced around this fact i'd say, and not being pretentious about multiplayer in any way was actually a design advantage for me over other arpgs. One nice thing about arpgs of today is there is a gameplay experience somewhere out there to suit everyone's playstyle and preference.
@@divinedbag if you think nobody played d2 multiplayer you must be really young, or even in today dont player ladder....the way you play d2 is hardcore ladder you need people to do chaos and baal runs only time your alone is doing MF runs if you even MF, in recent years a lot of youtubers just speed run and play mods n shit...that aint what d2 was about but to each his own.
I really liked Grim Dawn, and love POE. Couple of things though: did grim Dawn add a map overlay? Crazy not to have it. And did the expansion change the itemization a bit? Without a supportive community like POE I had a hard time figuring out what the hell to invest in
There are plenty of builds on the forums. There's a huge "OP builds" compilation thread too
I liked Grim Dawn before but I'm kinda spoiled by how the ACTS are handled by PoE. I don't want to go back repeating the acts 2-3 times to get to the end game.
CMIIW. I haven't played Grim Dawn for years.
The new expansion update allows to buy writs that allow you to start on the highest level
grim dawn is awesome, the comunity forum is full of ppl that will help new players understand most of the game and writing newcomers guides. i picked it up last year and its been a blast, i dont have a lvl 100 char yet cus i was swapping toons a lot trying classes xD
damm Pohx! i'm finishing the challenges in PoE. I expected to play after finishing them, but I really wanted to play right now.
It is a very slow game, personally not my cup of tea. When I played (mind you before the new expansion) the modding scene was pretty dead.
and at first i thought walking down the beach in POE was slow this game GD got me sleeping before i got to lvl 5