77 Squadron was already stationed in Japan when the Korean War started. Our Mustangs flew the first sortie over Korea. My old man was on that flight & flew Mustangs into battle until the MIG 15's showed up about a year later.
As a kid in the 60s I remember marveling over a P-51 in a hanger at Canberra airport which was in the process of having a turbo-prop engine (from a Fokker Friendship if memory serves me) installed. At the same time there was a clipped wing, bubble canopy Spitfire sitting on the tarmac in full camo paint scheme. I always wondered what happened to these magnificent aircraft.
Well done, a good presentation of the history of RAAF Mustangs. Perhaps add brief summaries of dates and squadron numbers on the screen, because otherwise it's hard to remember the numbers (just a suggestion, not a criticism). Good work!
Thanks. I spend a lot of time to try and match photos up with what I am saying. Even to the point that when talking about Mustang's in Japan all photos shown are photos of the RAAF mustang's in Japan during that period of time. It is a little more time consuming and tedious, but I believe it helps the presentation. 👍✈️
The manufacturing capabilities of CAC were quite advanced by the end of WW2 and no doubt the Mustang was the pinnacle of their achievements. I find the usage of the aircraft by the RAAF in Korea to be very interesting.
johnclayden WRONG !!!! The CAC did not manufacture Packard Merlins, they used them until the supply ran out and some CAC Mustangs used the RR Built merlin, what was AVAILABLE !!!
@@billyp4850 CAC did NOT build the engines !!! They sourced the Packard Merlins from the USA until the supply ran out, as Packard quit making the engines when the war ended and RR cancelled their contract, they used som RR built Merlins for the few remaining CAC Mustangs built !!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 look who crawled out of their hole. The deal with North American included 80 engines from Packard, the rest came from Rolls Royce. CAC didn't build the Merlin in Australia until after the war, when they supplied the engines for the Avro Lincolns being built here
It appears YT are up to their tricks again , I've not had any notification about this or Your previous episode - oh well at least I've got them now ! and I've got another to look forward too soon .Your subs are creeping up nicely now keep up the good work and You'll soon be well on Your way to 10K + subscribers and before You know it maybe even 100k , here's hoping . Thanks for all the interesting info .
If all goes right, there should be one in 2 two weeks exactly 👍 Thanks, it is all heading into the right direction. I enjoy being able to share my passion with people. Thanks 👍✈️
I am from Uruguay, 85. I did see P-51 Mustangs in operation here in the fifties. They were acquired in the US by our Air Force (FAU) and later sold to the Bolivian A.F. I still remember the white trails as they passed overhead and the buzzing of their powerful engine. Then I saw one at "close quarters" in a downtown static exhibit !
@@rednaughtstudios With automation and robotics we can catch up. Aircraft industry may be separate from Automobile but may have some similarities to other weapons production.
@@gryphus64 Automation and robotics are only useful once you have something good enough to build in large numbers. Unless we can convince the USA or UK to partner/share tech Australia would have a massive amount of catching up to do in terms of engine design, avionics and aero design. I’m not saying it’s impossible but given Australia is normally a customer of those other countries it doesn’t make sense they’d want to share tech that might make for a competitor.
@@rednaughtstudios only because American head office keeps looting the coffers, GMH Toyota and Ford Australia exported in large quantities to the southern hemisphere, SEA and the middle east. GM killed Holden in part because it was hurting sales of American Brands international, the only reason a number of GM & Ford plants in the US have kept open is because they don't have to compete with their Australian Divisions anymore. then GM abandoned the Right Hand Drive markets.
@@glenmcinnes4824 - the overseas multi-national car companies stopped us building electric cars too. They sabotaged the Australian car industry. They are not our friends.
G'day, Yay Team ! You forgot the Atomik Mustangs...; the RAAF supplied 6 to the Pommies as Test Targets, when QE-2's Imperial Honour required the RAF to nuke Maralinga. Ahhh, yes, I haven't experienced the tangy taste of Fallout on the Cornfkakes since 1963, when the mad Buggars conducted a Fizzle-Yield Warhead Fratricide-Test, which desynchronised the Conventional Explosive Shaped Spherical Charges which instead of compressing and detonating their "Pit" of Plutonium - blew it into Powder and threw the resulting Pu. Dust up into the prevailing Westerly Winds, and Thermals..., thus ensuring that everywhere from Maralinga to the Pacific Ocean got their (our) personal share of QE-2's patriotic Plutonium exposure. And, the six Irradiated and Blast-buggared CAC P-51 (A-68...) Mustangs all went into Landfill (like all but one of the RAAF F-111s..., least their infamous Desealed/Resealed Fueltanks kill any more CitiZens of Oz with - Cancer of the Everything...!). Such is life, Have a good one..... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
Ahh yes, I did miss them. With the video getting fairly long, I wasn't able to find the place to fit them in properly. Thanks for providing this extra detail. My grandfather has told me a story about one of the Mustang's utilized in the test ending up in civilian hands, where it unfortunately crashed at an airshow in Bendigo and killed the pilot.
@@AntiqueAirshow Ah, that would be VH-IYI, methinks...(?) ; White with Brown Cheat-Line and Registration Letters as I recall it, but it could have been Brown... I saw it at an Airshow at Armidale (NSW) in 1973, the Party-Piece was to finish his Display by climbing up to what the Announcer claimed was 10,000 ft but was probably only half that, and dive under power for a very high-speed low pass..., 350 knots plus, easy - maybe 400. Very exciting to watch, it was my first sight of a WW-2 Fighter. I think it was '75 or '76 when I heard that it failed to pull out of the dive at an Airshow - years later I heard it was blamed on a Control Wire Failure ; either Elevator Trim or the Elevators themselves. In '79 I was selling Helicopter Joyrides for Rosemary Arnold Harris, and her Helicopter Promotions Pty Ltd, which amounted to one leased Enstrom F-28c registered VH-IYR..., the sight of which for some reason used to ring bells, jog memories, and trigger reminiscences of VH-IVI..., so I ran into several accounts of "what happened", but I don't recall knowing about it's Nukeyoulater Adventures... I recall thinking, when I first heard of the Prang, that trying to please the Crowd was a pretty silly reason to go Power Diving at 45-Degrees from 10,000 ft - planning on levelling out at 30 or 50 ft and 400 knots...., that's 650 ft/second with 1/13th of a second margin of error... And his Airshow Fee would be lucky to cover his costs for the Ferry Flight to get to the Airshow venue...; lots of people dream of flying Airshows and turning a profit, but Realists know that breaking-even is close to impossible. Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
@@WarblesOnALot That would of been quite the sight to see. The sound as well would of been immense. Interesting story. The mustang I was referring to was VH-DBB, which also crashed at an airshow. Also after further research it seems neither VH-DBB nor VH-IYI were involved in the nuclear tests. My Granpda worked in general aviation for many years, so I reckon over the years he has gotten the story mixed up with other mustangs. Also possible that he was given incorrect info. Anyways what does it really matter. 👍✈️
@@AntiqueAirshow Cool...! It isn't hard for stories to get plaited together over the years...; and there weren't many Mustangs around Oz in the 1970s. There used to be two at Bankstown, parked beside Illawarra Aviation in '79, which I never saw being used ; but they had been flying for an expired RAN Target Towing Contract, according to what everybody said at the time. Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
Most Aussie mustangs were either converted to components, sold off or scrapped. Eventually most would of ended up in scrap yards. There is about 16 of them in various conditions around the world. It seems that from what I can tell there is about 6 CAC built mustangs flying outside of Australia with USAAF markings (Sources vary, but six seems to be the most accurate).
There was a rumour that quite a few lend lease Mustangs were used to fill in under the Bandianna parade ground. This was according to an ex Army guy who trained there in the 60s. Probably urban myth but you never know. And some were sealed in a cave in Queensland.
Check out the book *Mustangs of the RAAF & RNZAF* / [by] Peter N. Anderson. Lots of photos!! It is excellent. I foolishly gave my copy to an aero club library 40 years ago. 😢
That's not surprising. North American never saw the RAF's manual of aircraft construction standards so they built the Mustang to be a bit beefier than the RAF required. Around the end of WW2 NA started to redesign the Mustang to reduce structural weight.
@@omerashraf9357 P51 H was only 500# lighter than a "D". smaller tires and wheels 4 MG instead of 6 and a few other lightening, but the Mustang was a very strongly built plane !! !
What a shame that the aircraft manufacturing came to a end, we could've been a world leader and manufacturing for our own like Sweden. Sweden only has a population of 10 million and the Gripen is regarded as one of the best. The color pictures at the end were at Tyabb Mustang round up, that was a great airshow.
It is a shame, and sad to see how good the industry was in the 50s and 60s before its eventual demise. But ultimately the set up of the industry was not sustainable. Some of the aircraft that come out of Sweden is impressive. Indeed. I took the photos myself at the 2016 airshow there, which like you said was a great show. (also the last airshow I've been too. Hopefully that will change this year).
No it wasn't, and suited Australian needs much better than the Spitfire did. If it wasn't for the great foresight of Lawrence Wackett there is a very good chance Australia would of gone with the Spitfire.
Hi 82 squadron raaf was formed by my father's old boss ba grace @ bankstown sydney and served with distinction during ww2 morotai borneo etc other pilots involved were clive caldwell john waddy Bobby gibbes bluey truscott john & les Jackson jack archer dick cresswell who was c/o of 77 squadron in korea all great men!!!
If memory serves me correct wasn’t Clive Caldwell Australia’s top scoring aces with 17 confirmed kills and 1 shared kill. Also my grandfather served as pow in Borneo
@@lokiwiseyt8608 hey loki raaf had great pilots in their day even ones who did active service in Malaysia during the 1980s @ Butterworth base myself lol with the mirage 3 A3-17
We had the 4th largest Air Force in the world in 1946. CAC built fighters, fighter bombers, & bombers. Now, what do we manufacture? Thank you Federal Governments of all kinds since. :(
Bet you don’t tell how the politicians found the Australian built aircraft were to slow being built and to expensive, so they bought US built aircraft and “politically” resurrected the Mustang later.
well seeing the first knock down were delivered in Apr 1945 to enable local production it is no wonder we bought US made ones that were flown during the war.
@@ianmontgomery7534 so far as I’m aware, the only Mustangs flown by Australians in WW2, were flown by Australians flying in the RAF not the RAAF, I know 77 Sqn flew Mustangs in Korea.
@@palerider7708 I checked, you’re correct, 3 Sqn from about November 1944 and 450 Sqn from early 1945, so far as I can find. They didn’t specify what Mustang though, I assume the P51D or later. It’s interesting that 3 Sqn flew in the Balkans, I must look for a more detailed history.
The heading is wrong as North American did not design the Mustang to British specs !!! Kindelberger and Atwood had been working on a new modern fighter before the Brits showed up looking for P40's !! Hell Kindelberger had been to Germany and England before the war checking out what was being built. He worked with NACA on the laminar flow wing, the aerodynamic, and rhe new type Radiator housing. Why when the Brits showed up asking NA to build the P40 he and Atwood refused to build an obsolete fighter and they offered the Brits a new fighter better than the P40 !!! Brits had no choice but to accept, they needed fighters and that is why North American delivered the first plane 112 days after signing the contract !!!! You do not do the research and designing a the best fighter in 112 days without having done ALL the preliminary design work !!!!
77 Squadron was already stationed in Japan when the Korean War started. Our Mustangs flew the first sortie over Korea. My old man was on that flight & flew Mustangs into battle until the MIG 15's showed up about a year later.
Great presentation with excellent photos
Thank you 👍✈️
The most beautiful fighter ever
As a kid in the 60s I remember marveling over a P-51 in a hanger at Canberra airport which was in the process of having a turbo-prop engine (from a Fokker Friendship if memory serves me) installed.
At the same time there was a clipped wing, bubble canopy Spitfire sitting on the tarmac in full camo paint scheme.
I always wondered what happened to these magnificent aircraft.
Turbo mustang was still there in the mid 80s...
One of my grandfathers was with 86 squadron during WW2. I have a bunch of photos somewhere from him. Mostly P51D's but also lots of P40's.
My dad was in 86 squadron. He’s in the photo halfway through the video. Great video
Well done, a good presentation of the history of RAAF Mustangs. Perhaps add brief summaries of dates and squadron numbers on the screen, because otherwise it's hard to remember the numbers (just a suggestion, not a criticism). Good work!
Thank you. That is a good idea, I'll have a look into it. Thanks for the feedback appreciate it 👍✈️
A lazier presenter would have used photos of Mustangs in US Service . Nice to see photos/footage of actual Australian aircraft .
Thanks. I spend a lot of time to try and match photos up with what I am saying. Even to the point that when talking about Mustang's in Japan all photos shown are photos of the RAAF mustang's in Japan during that period of time. It is a little more time consuming and tedious, but I believe it helps the presentation. 👍✈️
Another interesting tale. I was particularly taken with the fact that Packard-Merlin engines were built by CAC.
The manufacturing capabilities of CAC were quite advanced by the end of WW2 and no doubt the Mustang was the pinnacle of their achievements. I find the usage of the aircraft by the RAAF in Korea to be very interesting.
Late reply I know, but a significant number of the CAC Mustangs actually used Rolls Royce built Merlins taken from Spitfires imported to Australia.
johnclayden WRONG !!!! The CAC did not manufacture Packard Merlins, they used them until the supply ran out and some CAC Mustangs used the RR Built merlin, what was AVAILABLE !!!
@@billyp4850 CAC did NOT build the engines !!! They sourced the Packard Merlins from the USA until the supply ran out, as Packard quit making the engines when the war ended and RR cancelled their contract, they used som RR built Merlins for the few remaining CAC Mustangs built !!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 look who crawled out of their hole. The deal with North American included 80 engines from Packard, the rest came from Rolls Royce. CAC didn't build the Merlin in Australia until after the war, when they supplied the engines for the Avro Lincolns being built here
Excellent and we'll researched video! Lots of new to me information. Thanks!
Thank you 👍✈️
It appears YT are up to their tricks again , I've not had any notification about this or Your previous episode - oh well at least I've got them now ! and I've got another to look forward too soon .Your subs are creeping up nicely now keep up the good work and You'll soon be well on Your way to 10K + subscribers and before You know it maybe even 100k , here's hoping . Thanks for all the interesting info .
If all goes right, there should be one in 2 two weeks exactly 👍 Thanks, it is all heading into the right direction. I enjoy being able to share my passion with people. Thanks 👍✈️
I am from Uruguay, 85. I did see P-51 Mustangs in operation here in the fifties. They were acquired in the US by our Air Force (FAU) and later sold to the Bolivian A.F.
I still remember the white trails as they passed overhead and the buzzing of their powerful engine.
Then I saw one at "close quarters" in a downtown static exhibit !
That would have been quite the sight to see
Yes! Australia needs to reform the "CAC" and start building fighters again! We should not rely on overseas built aircraft for the next conflict.
If Australia can't sustain a car industry how will it sustain an even higher tech aircraft industry? There's a lot of catching up to do as well.
@@rednaughtstudios With automation and robotics we can catch up. Aircraft industry may be separate from Automobile but may have some similarities to other weapons production.
@@gryphus64 Automation and robotics are only useful once you have something good enough to build in large numbers. Unless we can convince the USA or UK to partner/share tech Australia would have a massive amount of catching up to do in terms of engine design, avionics and aero design. I’m not saying it’s impossible but given Australia is normally a customer of those other countries it doesn’t make sense they’d want to share tech that might make for a competitor.
@@rednaughtstudios only because American head office keeps looting the coffers, GMH Toyota and Ford Australia exported in large quantities to the southern hemisphere, SEA and the middle east. GM killed Holden in part because it was hurting sales of American Brands international, the only reason a number of GM & Ford plants in the US have kept open is because they don't have to compete with their Australian Divisions anymore. then GM abandoned the Right Hand Drive markets.
@@glenmcinnes4824 - the overseas multi-national car companies stopped us building electric cars too.
They sabotaged the Australian car industry.
They are not our friends.
G'day,
Yay Team !
You forgot the Atomik Mustangs...; the RAAF supplied 6 to the Pommies as Test Targets, when QE-2's Imperial Honour required the RAF to nuke Maralinga.
Ahhh, yes, I haven't experienced the tangy taste of Fallout on the Cornfkakes since 1963, when the mad Buggars conducted a Fizzle-Yield Warhead Fratricide-Test, which desynchronised the Conventional Explosive Shaped Spherical Charges which instead of compressing and detonating their "Pit" of Plutonium - blew it into Powder and threw the resulting Pu. Dust up into the prevailing Westerly Winds, and Thermals..., thus ensuring that everywhere from Maralinga to the Pacific Ocean got their (our) personal share of QE-2's patriotic Plutonium exposure.
And, the six Irradiated and Blast-buggared CAC P-51 (A-68...) Mustangs all went into Landfill (like all but one of the RAAF F-111s..., least their infamous Desealed/Resealed Fueltanks kill any more CitiZens of Oz with - Cancer of the Everything...!).
Such is life,
Have a good one.....
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
Ahh yes, I did miss them. With the video getting fairly long, I wasn't able to find the place to fit them in properly. Thanks for providing this extra detail.
My grandfather has told me a story about one of the Mustang's utilized in the test ending up in civilian hands, where it unfortunately crashed at an airshow in Bendigo and killed the pilot.
@@AntiqueAirshow
Ah, that would be VH-IYI, methinks...(?) ; White with Brown Cheat-Line and Registration Letters as I recall it, but it could have been Brown...
I saw it at an Airshow at Armidale (NSW) in 1973, the Party-Piece was to finish his Display by climbing up to what the Announcer claimed was 10,000 ft but was probably only half that, and dive under power for a very high-speed low pass..., 350 knots plus, easy - maybe 400.
Very exciting to watch, it was my first sight of a WW-2 Fighter.
I think it was '75 or '76 when I heard that it failed to pull out of the dive at an Airshow - years later I heard it was blamed on a Control Wire Failure ; either Elevator Trim or the Elevators themselves.
In '79 I was selling Helicopter Joyrides for Rosemary Arnold Harris, and her Helicopter Promotions Pty Ltd, which amounted to one leased Enstrom F-28c registered VH-IYR..., the sight of which for some reason used to ring bells, jog memories, and trigger reminiscences of VH-IVI..., so I ran into several accounts of "what happened", but I don't recall knowing about it's Nukeyoulater Adventures...
I recall thinking, when I first heard of the Prang, that trying to please the Crowd was a pretty silly reason to go Power Diving at 45-Degrees from 10,000 ft - planning on levelling out at 30 or 50 ft and 400 knots...., that's 650 ft/second with 1/13th of a second margin of error...
And his Airshow Fee would be lucky to cover his costs for the Ferry Flight to get to the Airshow venue...; lots of people dream of flying Airshows and turning a profit, but Realists know that breaking-even is close to impossible.
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
@@WarblesOnALot That would of been quite the sight to see. The sound as well would of been immense. Interesting story.
The mustang I was referring to was VH-DBB, which also crashed at an airshow. Also after further research it seems neither VH-DBB nor VH-IYI were involved in the nuclear tests. My Granpda worked in general aviation for many years, so I reckon over the years he has gotten the story mixed up with other mustangs. Also possible that he was given incorrect info. Anyways what does it really matter.
👍✈️
@@AntiqueAirshow
Cool...!
It isn't hard for stories to get plaited together over the years...; and there weren't many Mustangs around Oz in the 1970s.
There used to be two at Bankstown, parked beside Illawarra Aviation in '79, which I never saw being used ; but they had been flying for an expired RAN Target Towing Contract, according to what everybody said at the time.
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
Bit hard to hear the voiced parts. Very informative.
Sorry about that, I'll work on the volume in the next video. Thank you 👍✈️
What happened to the Aussie Mustangs? How many are flying today with USAAF markings?
Most Aussie mustangs were either converted to components, sold off or scrapped. Eventually most would of ended up in scrap yards. There is about 16 of them in various conditions around the world. It seems that from what I can tell there is about 6 CAC built mustangs flying outside of Australia with USAAF markings (Sources vary, but six seems to be the most accurate).
There was a rumour that quite a few lend lease Mustangs were used to fill in under the Bandianna parade ground. This was according to an ex Army guy who trained there in the 60s. Probably urban myth but you never know. And some were sealed in a cave in Queensland.
Check out the book *Mustangs of the RAAF & RNZAF* / [by] Peter N. Anderson. Lots of photos!! It is excellent. I foolishly gave my copy to an aero club library 40 years ago. 😢
That seems a very interesting book, I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the recommendation 👍✈️
I read in a book that it was lighter than the american built mustang
That's not surprising. North American never saw the RAF's manual of aircraft construction standards so they built the Mustang to be a bit beefier than the RAF required. Around the end of WW2 NA started to redesign the Mustang to reduce structural weight.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 you had the lightweight p 51 h which was introduced too late to see action in ww2
@@omerashraf9357 thanks I couldn't remember the model.
@@omerashraf9357 P51 H was only 500# lighter than a "D". smaller tires and wheels 4 MG instead of 6 and a few other lightening, but the Mustang was a very strongly built plane !! !
Now Australia couldnt even manufacture a bicyle
What a shame that the aircraft manufacturing came to a end, we could've been a world leader and manufacturing for our own like Sweden. Sweden only has a population of 10 million and the Gripen is regarded as one of the best.
The color pictures at the end were at Tyabb Mustang round up, that was a great airshow.
It is a shame, and sad to see how good the industry was in the 50s and 60s before its eventual demise. But ultimately the set up of the industry was not sustainable. Some of the aircraft that come out of Sweden is impressive.
Indeed. I took the photos myself at the 2016 airshow there, which like you said was a great show. (also the last airshow I've been too. Hopefully that will change this year).
Australia built our own hornets.
@@tinto278 built some parts and assembled the rest.
@@ianmontgomery7534 ???
My grandfather was a pilot in the RAAF and he flew p51 mustang during WW2 In Japan after oppicational forces .after the atomic bomb drop on Hiroshima
the spitfire was never as versital as the P51D
No it wasn't, and suited Australian needs much better than the Spitfire did. If it wasn't for the great foresight of Lawrence Wackett there is a very good chance Australia would of gone with the Spitfire.
I have subscribed but your hard to find.
Thank you👍✈️ I'm a small channel, so unfortunately it can be a little hard to find me on the web. However its growing 👍
Hi 82 squadron raaf was formed by my father's old boss ba grace @ bankstown sydney and served with distinction during ww2 morotai borneo etc other pilots involved were clive caldwell john waddy Bobby gibbes bluey truscott john & les Jackson jack archer dick cresswell who was c/o of 77 squadron in korea all great men!!!
If memory serves me correct wasn’t Clive Caldwell Australia’s top scoring aces with 17 confirmed kills and 1 shared kill.
Also my grandfather served as pow in Borneo
@@lokiwiseyt8608 hey loki raaf had great pilots in their day even ones who did active service in Malaysia during the 1980s @ Butterworth base myself lol with the mirage 3 A3-17
We had the 4th largest Air Force in the world in 1946.
CAC built fighters, fighter bombers, & bombers.
Now, what do we manufacture?
Thank you Federal Governments of all kinds since. :(
Bet you don’t tell how the politicians found the Australian built aircraft were to slow being built and to expensive, so they bought US built aircraft and “politically” resurrected the Mustang later.
well seeing the first knock down were delivered in Apr 1945 to enable local production it is no wonder we bought US made ones that were flown during the war.
@@ianmontgomery7534 so far as I’m aware, the only Mustangs flown by Australians in WW2, were flown by Australians flying in the RAF not the RAAF, I know 77 Sqn flew Mustangs in Korea.
@@anthonyburke5656 Not true. 3 & 450 Squadrons RAAF flew (RAF supplied) Mustangs later in the war in the Italian theatre.
@@palerider7708 thanks, that’s interesting, I wonder if they were the P51B and C, I’ll do some research.
@@palerider7708 I checked, you’re correct, 3 Sqn from about November 1944 and 450 Sqn from early 1945, so far as I can find. They didn’t specify what Mustang though, I assume the P51D or later. It’s interesting that 3 Sqn flew in the Balkans, I must look for a more detailed history.
Strinestang
ASMR VOICE
The heading is wrong as North American did not design the Mustang to British specs !!! Kindelberger and Atwood had been working on a new modern fighter before the Brits showed up looking for P40's !! Hell Kindelberger had been to Germany and England before the war checking out what was being built. He worked with NACA on the laminar flow wing, the aerodynamic, and rhe new type Radiator housing. Why when the Brits showed up asking NA to build the P40 he and Atwood refused to build an obsolete fighter and they offered the Brits a new fighter better than the P40 !!! Brits had no choice but to accept, they needed fighters and that is why North American delivered the first plane 112 days after signing the contract !!!! You do not do the research and designing a the best fighter in 112 days without having done ALL the preliminary design work !!!!