The small silvery glass is almost certainly interference IR bandpass filter, not just attenuator. Also the diodes across LEDs on the illuminators might be zeners set just bit above the voltage drop of the actual LEDs to limit the effect of single LED failure in each of the individual sub-strings. Similar thing is being done nowdays in better quality street LED illuminators to give them more reasonable lifespan and gracefull fallback on single point failure.
I think it was Xerox PARC who demonstrated an iris recognition system back in the mid '90s which didn't require the user to stare straight at the unit; it actually read one of the person's irises as he/she approached it. Their demonstration platform was an ATM.
Seeing that big chunk of exposed silicon ... I’ve been curious about the effects of a tightly focused blue (for their higher energy photons) laser beam on the functionality of a naked (uncapped) processor or FPGA. A blu-ray dvd laser should be ideal. I think it’s likely to induce state changes as the photons drive electrons across the semiconductor band gap, but I haven’t the resources to actually find out.
Great to see you teardown stuff again! Its awesome what you find and tear down! 224mm² DIE doesn't seem that huge by todays standards... CPUs these days are around 100-200mm² usually though. Except for the high end desktop Plattform....
1. those chips behind leds could also be "open led protectors", so particular led string will continue working if one or more leds fail 2. more led strings could be either current limiting for POE powering and/or according to pcb layout, different angles for eye "scanning" for more precise image
Thanks as always for sharing! Hope you are doing well, as said you had some fun with the speech module, so i guess everything good. Have a good one and thanks again for your videos!!!
It would be interesting to know the data format and how they do their matching... I recently had to do with a fingerprint scanner that stored its profile in a whopping 8 bit wide hash. And well you can take a guess why half of the time it wasn't working at all...
I was going to give you the gears for getting me to try clean your dirty laptop screen but then I figured a hearty thanks for the lesson in stacked integrated chips. I can't believe I am just hearing about it. These SBC's and their combo processor /GPU I imagine is akin to this design. They both share the RAM in the OrangePi, the only one I can vouch for the specs on. So call me late to the party :-)
Moritz von Schweinitz Too bad those chips are usually mask-based programmed sound chips made to order, so there is really no easy way to reprogram them.
It's quite common in embedded applications; the last time I saw it was in a mobile phone. The original two versions of the Raspberry Pi and the Raspberry Pi Zero have the system memory stacked on top of the main CPU.
Halojen I actually got a hold of some kind of smart intercom device that played a little tune and played some voice depending on the situation (door not being closed properly, fire situation, phone line cut, etc) Shorting out some of the data pins from CPU, touching the crystal, and injecting negative voltage spikes after the power converter stage caused the speech chip to speak garbled language. It was fun, until one day someone mistook it for junk and threw it into the dumpster.
Would be interesting to start probing into the data streams. I wonder if the system is simply comparing raster images of the retina, or if it's trying to identify unique features, similar to how fingerprint ID systems will encode ridge-count and other minutiae.
I'd guess that all of the diodes and constant current drivers on the LED boards are to keep the unit working as much as possible in the event of one or several LEDs burning out.
These were marked "Industrial grade", for what it's worth. One Issue I've been meaning to look at for a while is how susceptible SD cards are to read-disturb errors in read-mostly applications. Raw NAND without ECC can lose data fairly quickly , MLC being a lot worse than SLC
I know of some expensive test equipment that uses SD cards and a bunch of big deployments using raspberry pi's with SD cards. The pi's killed their SD cards in a few months of 24/7 operation. Aside from just the issues with SD cards not being reliable over time there are issues with the filesystem going to crap when the power fails etc.
The Raspberry Pi is particularly bad with this, it kills SD cards even quicker than they can kill themselves. We've had a 24/7 installation here where we had to switch cards about once a month. The third edition is much better now, though.
There is a big advantage to going with SD, which is future proofing and lower price per GB. Packaged NAND suppliers can obsolete their lines. Footprints and pinouts may not be the same. You need to redesign and recertify an entire product line if that happens. The main worry is going to be trimming on the SD card so use a FAT instead of pages and registers. Make sure you get a higher temperature, automotive or industrial graded versions as they can get hot if not cooled properly.
Do you actually ever reuse, repurpose, or salvage any of all that highly complicated stuff? What do you do with all the bits and bobs that explode upon your workbench? (Let's ignore real dumb items like fans and heatsinks.)
Man apparently all the good stuff on ebay is in the uk, or I need to get a hold of whatever ludicrously obscure searches you have saved. The Canadian ebay site just seems to be kind of shit in general though, same search terms reveal a lot more on the us one, unless a bunch of sellers just exclude other countries.
donpalmera It is. Panasonic still makes electronics for Japanese domestic market but not in the same scale as before. Looks like they just used the same chip for two versions, but with a jumper/firmware switch to change the language on the fly.
Even today there aren't many 2-camera solutions, though they could probably have multiplexed 2 cams onto one board.
6 ปีที่แล้ว
but eventually this multiplexing is complicated and costly than just stuck a second module in. this way you have a simple finished system on module (som) with a finished camera module that work together. so the designer did not needed to do 'high speed' camera signal routing. (only ethernet routing on the pcb needed^^) this use of 'of the shelf modules' is a way to get a really short time to market.. i would do one io line as 'hardware left or right module configuration pin' so the module just knows if it sits in top or bottom slot on the main-pcb - so you can have identically software on both modules. and communication over the ethernet port is also simple to do in various styles..
I think i heard the voice talking about a card when you were playing with the voice chip... I think the auxiliary camera is to get a picture of the badge and compare it to the actual person. That's my theory !
These things are a pain in the ass. You have to be dead on to get a reading. Its quite usual to see these things "out of order" and a human waves you through, because they're so unreliable.
The ending is amazing, and confirmation of every voice system gone wonky sci-fi cliche/trope/comedy element ever.
19:35 "Loading data/adaboostClassifier.txt" is particularly interesting!
I love how the voice at the end sounded like a sci-fi speech system crashing in almost the exact same way you hear in movies.
The small silvery glass is almost certainly interference IR bandpass filter, not just attenuator.
Also the diodes across LEDs on the illuminators might be zeners set just bit above the voltage drop of the actual LEDs to limit the effect of single LED failure in each of the individual sub-strings. Similar thing is being done nowdays in better quality street LED illuminators to give them more reasonable lifespan and gracefull fallback on single point failure.
The silvery thing does not appear to have any bandpass characteristic - it's not a dielectric filter
I always find these tear down videos quite entertaining and educational. Thank for sharing.
Mike, looks like you were having fun with the voice module towards the end :-)
Welcome back !!!
you made it speak Japanese for a sec when probing the flash
I think it was Xerox PARC who demonstrated an iris recognition system back in the mid '90s which didn't require the user to stare straight at the unit; it actually read one of the person's irises as he/she approached it. Their demonstration platform was an ATM.
IR diodes light up at different time so that camera can get depth information so that it can't be fooled by photo.
Mike, I love your videos, always presenting nothing else but raw info.
You don't give a damn about appearances.
Seeing that big chunk of exposed silicon ... I’ve been curious about the effects of a tightly focused blue (for their higher energy photons) laser beam on the functionality of a naked (uncapped) processor or FPGA. A blu-ray dvd laser should be ideal. I think it’s likely to induce state changes as the photons drive electrons across the semiconductor band gap, but I haven’t the resources to actually find out.
Interesting! Thanks for the link. : )
Love the uploads
Great to see you teardown stuff again! Its awesome what you find and tear down!
224mm² DIE doesn't seem that huge by todays standards...
CPUs these days are around 100-200mm² usually though. Except for the high end desktop Plattform....
*Happy Holidays & Best Wishes for the New Year. CHEERS*
Thanks for doing more videos, I love every minute of them.
1. those chips behind leds could also be "open led protectors", so particular led string will continue working if one or more leds fail
2. more led strings could be either current limiting for POE powering and/or according to pcb layout, different angles for eye "scanning" for more precise image
Good to have you back :) I like your indepth video's they are very relaxing and good to watch later/early morning. Merry Christmas.
Thanks as always for sharing!
Hope you are doing well, as said you had some fun with the speech module, so i guess everything good.
Have a good one and thanks again for your videos!!!
It would be interesting to know the data format and how they do their matching... I recently had to do with a fingerprint scanner that stored its profile in a whopping 8 bit wide hash. And well you can take a guess why half of the time it wasn't working at all...
I'm seeing more use of PoP BGAs. Most common is a memory package on top of a logic package.
So interesting to see this type of gear! Thanks!)
The raspberry zero uses that stacked SOC and Ram technique.
I was going to give you the gears for getting me to try clean your dirty laptop screen but then I figured a hearty thanks for the lesson in stacked integrated chips. I can't believe I am just hearing about it. These SBC's and their combo processor /GPU I imagine is akin to this design. They both share the RAM in the OrangePi,
the only one I can vouch for the specs on. So call me late to the party :-)
The Panasonic one said it didn't recognise you. So how do we know that it's the real Mike making the video??? :D
I'm sorry Mike, i'm afraid I can't do that...... Daisy, daisy,...........
A lot of modern smartphones use the stacked bga technique. I first saw this when desoldering the processor from an LG G4 that was bricked.
How cool would it have been if they'd have put System Shock's "look at you hacker" speech on that chip.
Moritz von Schweinitz
Too bad those chips are usually mask-based programmed sound chips made to order, so there is really no easy way to reprogram them.
very interesting stuff! great work! keep it up!
nice to see you back :)
that ending....the haunting voice of our dystopian future
Awesome ! I really want to see someone do a song with those vocals at the end though
2:51 oh that won't get old fast. Would not want an office or cubicle next to one of these things.
Dont think ive ever seen a chip soldered to the top of another chip - in bga no less. Very cool
It's quite common in embedded applications; the last time I saw it was in a mobile phone. The original two versions of the Raspberry Pi and the Raspberry Pi Zero have the system memory stacked on top of the main CPU.
Same story goes for a great majority of mobile phones (and tablets, obviously) from the last decade or so.
Probably the silver mirrors are dielectric optical windows to reject all light but the right ir.. They make laser mirrors and OC this way
I wonder if there's any hidden messages in that speech chip...
The circuit bending at the end was glorious. I hope you don't mind that I'm going to sample it and use it in my next track.
Halojen
I actually got a hold of some kind of smart intercom device that played a little tune and played some voice depending on the situation (door not being closed properly, fire situation, phone line cut, etc)
Shorting out some of the data pins from CPU, touching the crystal, and injecting negative voltage spikes after the power converter stage caused the speech chip to speak garbled language.
It was fun, until one day someone mistook it for junk and threw it into the dumpster.
Nice bit of circuit bending at the end
Would be interesting to start probing into the data streams. I wonder if the system is simply comparing raster images of the retina, or if it's trying to identify unique features, similar to how fingerprint ID systems will encode ridge-count and other minutiae.
I was watching some other videos from Mike and i was like "i have not seen that before, is it very old?"
Man I lusted after those Gumstix back in the day
diodes across LEDs are in case one of the LEDs dies.
I'd guess that all of the diodes and constant current drivers on the LED boards are to keep the unit working as much as possible in the event of one or several LEDs burning out.
Nice one Mike.
Very strange seeing SD cards in an embedded product... Even the expensive ones aren't super reliable
These were marked "Industrial grade", for what it's worth. One Issue I've been meaning to look at for a while is how susceptible SD cards are to read-disturb errors in read-mostly applications. Raw NAND without ECC can lose data fairly quickly , MLC being a lot worse than SLC
I know of some expensive test equipment that uses SD cards and a bunch of big deployments using raspberry pi's with SD cards. The pi's killed their SD cards in a few months of 24/7 operation.
Aside from just the issues with SD cards not being reliable over time there are issues with the filesystem going to crap when the power fails etc.
Luke Den Hartog there's an SD card in I think a Siemens fire panel. May only store audio recordings though.
The Raspberry Pi is particularly bad with this, it kills SD cards even quicker than they can kill themselves. We've had a 24/7 installation here where we had to switch cards about once a month. The third edition is much better now, though.
There is a big advantage to going with SD, which is future proofing and lower price per GB. Packaged NAND suppliers can obsolete their lines. Footprints and pinouts may not be the same. You need to redesign and recertify an entire product line if that happens. The main worry is going to be trimming on the SD card so use a FAT instead of pages and registers. Make sure you get a higher temperature, automotive or industrial graded versions as they can get hot if not cooled properly.
Love the hacked speech at the end 😂
Sharp GP2Y0A02 proximity sensor - looks like lots of robot projects use those.
Cannot believe you got them that cheap. I work in a Secure DataCenter and we have these Panasonic units throughout the buildings.
Do you actually ever reuse, repurpose, or salvage any of all that highly complicated stuff? What do you do with all the bits and bobs that explode upon your workbench? (Let's ignore real dumb items like fans and heatsinks.)
Need to circuit bend this into an instrument for Look Mum No Computer.
Welcome back. Wish I could spam the like button.
Man apparently all the good stuff on ebay is in the uk, or I need to get a hold of whatever ludicrously obscure searches you have saved.
The Canadian ebay site just seems to be kind of shit in general though, same search terms reveal a lot more on the us one, unless a bunch of sellers just exclude other countries.
Thirteen minutes, damn I'm early. Thanks for the new video, Mike!
I would buy those radiographs at 23:00 as wall art if you sold them
it was speaking Japanese. "kudasai" means "please"
And "mite" is "look".
My guess would be the full phrase is "Kagami o mite kudasai", which is "please look at the mirror".
I'm not sure on this but I think Panasonic might even be a Japanese company.
donpalmera
It is. Panasonic still makes electronics for Japanese domestic market but not in the same scale as before.
Looks like they just used the same chip for two versions, but with a jumper/firmware switch to change the language on the fly.
good stuff
What's in the SD card?
zxz1997
Probably logs for the iris recognition data and/or a picture of the person being scanned.
Mike said there were no pictures or any interesting data on it.
How did you make the x-ray picture? It's cool!
He has a microfocus X-ray system, namely a Faxitron MX-20.
That's funny, a panasonic device that actually uses panasonic electrolytic capacitors! XD
25:13 DJ Mike in the house
i was sooo expecting experiments with some fake eye or even pig eye from meat market.
Interesting as always..!
Wonder if you could dump the rom and open it in audacity as a raw PCM file
Not read the datasheet but pretty sure they use more complex encoding than simple waveforms
I used to sell the Panasonic iris scanner - AU$5000 new with software
Needs more circuit bending
Hahaha you pulled the xtal and fed in a variable clock and "it werks"
Sooo... are we now using complete embedded Linux systems like microcontrollers? Why 2 instead of a single with more cpu / ram?
because there's two cameras
duh
Even today there aren't many 2-camera solutions, though they could probably have multiplexed 2 cams onto one board.
but eventually this multiplexing is complicated and costly than just stuck a second module in.
this way you have a simple finished system on module (som) with a finished camera module that work together. so the designer did not needed to do 'high speed' camera signal routing. (only ethernet routing on the pcb needed^^)
this use of 'of the shelf modules' is a way to get a really short time to market..
i would do one io line as 'hardware left or right module configuration pin' so the module just knows if it sits in top or bottom slot on the main-pcb - so you can have identically software on both modules. and communication over the ethernet port is also simple to do in various styles..
Lot of inexperienced developers I seen behind this product :) But it works :D Where I seen this before :D
Who do companies price gouge so much for FPGAs?
Razor2048 they don't. They are low volume, large dies, require lots of R&D, and probably other factors leading to high cost.
These fell out of favor after movies were like "just cut a guy's eye out and hold it up to the scanner, duh!" and nobody wanted to be that guy.
And now make it do the noises from Half-Life … :)
I think i heard the voice talking about a card when you were playing with the voice chip... I think the auxiliary camera is to get a picture of the badge and compare it to the actual person. That's my theory !
Aux cam video feed is not connected to the system.
Mike mentioned that there was a card reader interface. It would have been a separate unit wired up to the iris recognition unit.
I thought these were invented by hollywood.
These things are a pain in the ass. You have to be dead on to get a reading. Its quite usual to see these things "out of order" and a human waves you through, because they're so unreliable.
@10m0s you'd have said "focus you fack" !
10:46, me hears Japanese
Please look into th- please look-lo-LOOK AT YOU, INSECT
10:47 that's Japanese!
These things are total shit.
Expensive as hell, but easily fooled by a high res print of someones iris on gloss paper.
great video but the sound modulation is rubbish.
mike i love your videos but please dude ... linux not line-ux
By linux I'm guessing you mean linnux. I, like mike, pronounce it how it's spelt.
First !