Mr. Hurwitz: I know you did a video reflecting upon the last five years, and it would've been more appropriate to wish you a happy new year there. I lost my grandpa a little over a couple of weeks ago. He was like a father to me, really. It's been a bittersweet season. However, there is solace and comfort to find in your work. Although I'm a stranger, I thank you for always being there, bringing levity and joy to our days. Truly, may the next five years be as good as the last. May God bless all of your undertakings.
Karajan’s recording with the Wiener is one of my favorites. The sonics and musicality of it is astounding and top notch. Another one I really like is Steinberg with Boston because of the rhythmic precision. Both are really good in my opinion I digress.
That's the one. Karajan's best recordings to my ears were the ones he made on Decca and EMI in the late'50-60's. Boult was marvellous in this repertoire too.
The 1961 Vienna PO Karajan Holst The Planets paired with the great Monteux Elgar Enigma Variations 1958 on the Decca CD from the 1990s is a helluva one-two punch bargain. You showed it on the channel before, I am aware. I bought it back in the 1990s at the late lamented Borders bookstore when they had a lovely classical section. Happy New Year!
As a teenager, I bought many of my first CDs at Borders. They always seemed to have a much fuller and varied classical collection (perhaps could say this about the entire CD collection?). I particularly remember they always had the Karajan Gold albums, everything of Glenn Gould... so those ended up being my first versions of most musical works. Ever since it's been a long (re-)education. Gosh, I miss being able to walk out of that store with books and CDs in the same bag...
The HvK/Vienna/DECCA is the most exciting rendition as Dave suggests. Another version that deserves a mention is the excellent Mehta/LAP/DECCA(again!) which is arguably still the best sounding from an audio standpoint. Among some of the details obscured in the HvK's, the euphonium is wonderfully highlighted when called for and the organ glissando is gloriously audible in SATURN in the Mehta. A gorgiously played version and a fun recording also worth seeking out is the Ormandy/PO/Euroarts DVD from June 1977. Happy listening in the new year.
Happy New Year, DH. For over a year now, I have reveled in searching out your recommendations of my favorite pieces. Back in the old days before streaming, classical music implied buying the CD or some other source. With a restricted budget for physical media and restricted storage space, I always limited my purchases to well known, at least to me, sources. Being able to stream has opened up even more enjoyment of classical music and your direction has focused my listening time to be very fruitful and enjoyable and opened my eyes to so many performers and performances. THX!
Karajan's VPO Planets sneaked itself aboard my cd collection as a stowaway to Monteux' excellent Enigma Variations - and has stayed a guity pleasure ever since. I'm glad it has now received the imprimatur from the Hurwitz Holy See ex cathedra!. Apart from Sir Adrian's efforts, Steinberg's Planets from Boston is another treasured recording on these shores!
Other "Planets" recordings have come and gone in my collection, but Karajan/Vienna is the only one that's ALWAYS been there (bought my LP copy in 1967). The coda of "Saturn" (when the organ pedals and tolling chimes enter) is truly astounding, one of many highlights of this great performance. Happy New Year! LR
Yes, this is a great recording, but I am still most fond of another one you introduced me to in that survey: the Steinberg. It’s so friggin exciting and rhythmically driven.
Funny: I remember listening to it waaaay back in my University days and immediately thinking, "He just doesn't get the idiom!". I've listened to it lots of times since, of course, but have never found it working, for me. The Dutoit sounds much better to my ears: I didn't know there was an organ part until I heard that version for the first time!! 😅 Happy New Year, nevertheless. Looking forward to lots more of your insights. 🖖
@DavesClassicalGuide Hard question to answer: like the judge said of what constitutes pornography, "I know it when I see it"! I would suggest English, folksong, hymnody, small-scale drammatic. I know it's an astrological tour de force, but it's also a sequence of intimate character portraits (Mars possibly excluded), each highly individual, intense and closely-drawn. None of which may be true, because I'm not you and my musical education is likely lacking in comparison. but Herbert's Germanic, grand symphonic smoothed-outness didn't seem to me to quite fit. I didn't think him awful. Just "Holst with a foreign accent".
OH YES! One of the greatest recordings of ANYTHING! Karajan in Vienna was always better than his work in Berlin. Vienna loved him. By the way, Imogen, Holst's daughter, proclaimed this recording as the best ever made of her father's magnum opus.
Firstly a happy new year to the elusive Finster! I think the thing that this version demonstrates most strongly is that particular Karajan elan that came to be a recognised characteristic of how he recorded things around that time & establishing himself in the process. And as you say it worked with certain pieces better than others. As a complement to this recording I also wouldn't be without the 1978 Boult either.
Wow! Never heard this recording before. Guess I avoided it because the remake on DG didn't exactly send me into orbit. But just now, I heard "Mars" and not only was the performance terrific, the sonics were way beyond what many would expect from that era. For me, pride of place still goes to Dutoit -- so far. I may change that opinion when I hear the whole thing.
I'm guessing a viewing of the Vienna Phil's New Year Concert was an inspiration for this post. They had a 2001 Space Odyssey theme in the intermission program. I watch the concert almost every time. This time exactly I was wondering if the Vienna orchestra is much good with any modern music and how often would they even get to play any. I went through their repertoire for the spring season and it appeared that indeed there is not much modern music in there. Some, but not a whole lot. Would you have more to share about the topic of which type of music suits best a specific orchestra?
I wish Herbie had done a bit more of British composers work. I always liked his Philh performance of Britten's Frank Bridge Variations and the Vaughan Williams Tallis Fantasia, but (AFAIK) these works never reappeared in his repertoire. Would it have killed him to do the Enigma Variations, Elgar's 2nd or VW's 5th? I wonder why The Planets was something he thought he would re-record?
You forgot the loudest of them all Dave , Solti with the Chicago in the early 70s. Outside of attempting to blow out speakers and ear drums, it was memorable to me because it was one of the last classical albums I can remember being advertised on network tv "Solti! Chicago! The Planets" ( that collection of classical music that was advertised on the non network channels like WOR in NYC with the British guy ( of course), doesnt count ' You know that as Stranger in Paradise from Kismet, but did you know that is from the Polevetsian Dances by Borodin?')
As Dave pointed out this is with the London Philharmonic. Solti never recorded this work with the Chicago Symphony. I can remember being excited when the Solti/LPO recording was released but how disappointed I was on hearing it. Yes, it is loud but the brass dominates at the expense of everything else. Dave has often mentioned that Solti was not much of a percussion guy and that is really apparent in this recording. Where are the tam tams in Mars, barely audible. Just listen to what Boult does here in his 1978 recording. You would never know there was a xylophone part in Uranus and the organ is distinctly unimpressive. I could go on but......
@@petercable7768 Thank you both, I am remembering the ad from when I was a kid. Impressed you guys knew the album! I think I assumed it was the Chicago. As far as the brass dominating that was the hallmark of his tenure at the CSO, so not surprised ( Chicago I think still has one of the best brass sections among the major orchestras, def had that reputation for many years).
I prefer the Vienna version overall, but the more rough and raw "Mars" from the Berliner recording is my all time favorite for that movement. Warts and all, it's the most disturbingly warlike Mars I've heard.
Another chord guy was of course Stokowski, who was also great on rhythm, and the layers he uncovers in his recording from L.A. puts this in a superior category, in my opinion. Funnily enough, rarely mentioned
It's a very strange recording, typically capricious in its changes to the orchestration, and oddly balanced in favor of the wind section. I like it for Neptune especially, but it's not really competitive.
I like the Vienna too, so surprising… I mean Herbie and Vienna? Who knew? I like parts of his Berlin remake, but it’s also a party CD, just listen to the low horn intonation in the first 30 seconds… yuck! The Steinberg is also great, although I think Mars was too fast, if I remember correctly.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I, too, prefer 'Mars' to be slow rather than quick. For ultimate slowness, it's Svetlanov and the Philharmonia Orchestra, who take 8'43" !! It's a fascinating listen!
@@bernardley4540 Out of interest, here are comparative timings: Boult 1967: 7:11 Boult 1978 7:58 Gibson 1983 7:16 Dutoit 1987 7:09 Karajan 1981 (Berlin): 7:13 Karajan 1960 (Vienna): 7:00 Rattle 2006 7:24 Lloyd-Jones 2002 7:03 Yoel-Levi 1997 6:26 Eliot-Gardiner 1995 8:03 Bernstein 1973ish 6:33 Colin Davis 2002 7:11 Yan Pascal Tortelier 1996 7:25 Ormandy 1976ish 6:56 Steinberg 6:37 So yes: Steinberg is very fast, with one or two exceptions (including Bernstein). Most people seem to fall into the 7:00 - 7:30 range. My apologies to Dave for an earlier version of this post which misread 'Holst' for 'Boult', who was mainstream timing in his earlier recordings, but slowed down drammatically for his last.
I DO genuinely enjoy this recording, but……as in the Berlin one called out on in the above comment, I find the brass intonation in Mars cringe-worthy in this VPO one as well. I can deal, but it is a blemish for me. Maybe I need to play it louder next time, and sing along….a bit flat….
Mr. Hurwitz: I know you did a video reflecting upon the last five years, and it would've been more appropriate to wish you a happy new year there.
I lost my grandpa a little over a couple of weeks ago. He was like a father to me, really. It's been a bittersweet season. However, there is solace and comfort to find in your work. Although I'm a stranger, I thank you for always being there, bringing levity and joy to our days.
Truly, may the next five years be as good as the last. May God bless all of your undertakings.
My sincerest condolences for your loss, and may thanks for taking the time to write. Let's enjoy many years together!
@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you, I appreciate your kind words very much. They mean a lot.
Karajan’s recording with the Wiener is one of my favorites. The sonics and musicality of it is astounding and top notch. Another one I really like is Steinberg with Boston because of the rhythmic precision. Both are really good in my opinion I digress.
That's the one. Karajan's best recordings to my ears were the ones he made on Decca and EMI in the late'50-60's. Boult was marvellous in this repertoire too.
The 1961 Vienna PO Karajan Holst The Planets paired with the great Monteux Elgar Enigma Variations 1958 on the Decca CD from the 1990s is a helluva one-two punch bargain. You showed it on the channel before, I am aware. I bought it back in the 1990s at the late lamented Borders bookstore when they had a lovely classical section. Happy New Year!
As a teenager, I bought many of my first CDs at Borders. They always seemed to have a much fuller and varied classical collection (perhaps could say this about the entire CD collection?). I particularly remember they always had the Karajan Gold albums, everything of Glenn Gould... so those ended up being my first versions of most musical works. Ever since it's been a long (re-)education.
Gosh, I miss being able to walk out of that store with books and CDs in the same bag...
The HvK/Vienna/DECCA is the most exciting rendition as Dave suggests. Another version that deserves a mention is the excellent Mehta/LAP/DECCA(again!) which is arguably still the best sounding from an audio standpoint. Among some of the details obscured in the HvK's, the euphonium is wonderfully highlighted when called for and the organ glissando is gloriously audible in SATURN in the Mehta. A gorgiously played version and a fun recording also worth seeking out is the Ormandy/PO/Euroarts DVD from June 1977. Happy listening in the new year.
Happy New Year, DH. For over a year now, I have reveled in searching out your recommendations of my favorite pieces. Back in the old days before streaming, classical music implied buying the CD or some other source. With a restricted budget for physical media and restricted storage space, I always limited my purchases to well known, at least to me, sources. Being able to stream has opened up even more enjoyment of classical music and your direction has focused my listening time to be very fruitful and enjoyable and opened my eyes to so many performers and performances. THX!
Karajan's VPO Planets sneaked itself aboard my cd collection as a stowaway to Monteux' excellent Enigma Variations - and has stayed a guity pleasure ever since. I'm glad it has now received the imprimatur from the Hurwitz Holy See ex cathedra!. Apart from Sir Adrian's efforts, Steinberg's Planets from Boston is another treasured recording on these shores!
Other "Planets" recordings have come and gone in my collection, but Karajan/Vienna is the only one that's ALWAYS been there (bought my LP copy in 1967). The coda of "Saturn" (when the organ pedals and tolling chimes enter) is truly astounding, one of many highlights of this great performance. Happy New Year! LR
in college we used to occasionally gather around the turntable. This recording was a major event, much as was Bernstein's first Shostakovich Fifth.
4:00 Nice to hear you mention Dutoit, it's an excellent recording.
Yes, this is a great recording, but I am still most fond of another one you introduced me to in that survey: the Steinberg. It’s so friggin exciting and rhythmically driven.
Dutoit's recording was the first version of "The Planets" I ever heard. Even though I had nothing to compare it to, I remember how much I enjoyed it.
Dave have you made a new year's resolution..'appreciation' of Karajan.
Agree one of the best...after Boult for me
No, I haven't! I just call 'em like I hear 'em.
Happy New Year Dave, Fenster and Midred.
Thanks very much. Happy New Year to you as well!
Funny: I remember listening to it waaaay back in my University days and immediately thinking, "He just doesn't get the idiom!". I've listened to it lots of times since, of course, but have never found it working, for me. The Dutoit sounds much better to my ears: I didn't know there was an organ part until I heard that version for the first time!! 😅
Happy New Year, nevertheless. Looking forward to lots more of your insights. 🖖
What idiom?
@DavesClassicalGuide Hard question to answer: like the judge said of what constitutes pornography, "I know it when I see it"! I would suggest English, folksong, hymnody, small-scale drammatic. I know it's an astrological tour de force, but it's also a sequence of intimate character portraits (Mars possibly excluded), each highly individual, intense and closely-drawn.
None of which may be true, because I'm not you and my musical education is likely lacking in comparison. but Herbert's Germanic, grand symphonic smoothed-outness didn't seem to me to quite fit. I didn't think him awful. Just "Holst with a foreign accent".
OH YES! One of the greatest recordings of ANYTHING! Karajan in Vienna was always better than his work in Berlin. Vienna loved him. By the way, Imogen, Holst's daughter, proclaimed this recording as the best ever made of her father's magnum opus.
Firstly a happy new year to the elusive Finster! I think the thing that this version demonstrates most strongly is that particular Karajan elan that came to be a recognised characteristic of how he recorded things around that time & establishing himself in the process. And as you say it worked with certain pieces better than others. As a complement to this recording I also wouldn't be without the 1978 Boult either.
Wow! Never heard this recording before. Guess I avoided it because the remake on DG didn't exactly send me into orbit. But just now, I heard "Mars" and not only was the performance terrific, the sonics were way beyond what many would expect from that era. For me, pride of place still goes to Dutoit -- so far. I may change that opinion when I hear the whole thing.
I'm guessing a viewing of the Vienna Phil's New Year Concert was an inspiration for this post. They had a 2001 Space Odyssey theme in the intermission program. I watch the concert almost every time. This time exactly I was wondering if the Vienna orchestra is much good with any modern music and how often would they even get to play any. I went through their repertoire for the spring season and it appeared that indeed there is not much modern music in there. Some, but not a whole lot. Would you have more to share about the topic of which type of music suits best a specific orchestra?
Uh no. I avoid Vienna New Year's Concerts generally.
I wish Herbie had done a bit more of British composers work. I always liked his Philh performance of Britten's Frank Bridge Variations and the Vaughan Williams Tallis Fantasia, but (AFAIK) these works never reappeared in his repertoire. Would it have killed him to do the Enigma Variations, Elgar's 2nd or VW's 5th? I wonder why The Planets was something he thought he would re-record?
You forgot the loudest of them all Dave , Solti with the Chicago in the early 70s. Outside of attempting to blow out speakers and ear drums, it was memorable to me because it was one of the last classical albums I can remember being advertised on network tv "Solti! Chicago! The Planets" ( that collection of classical music that was advertised on the non network channels like WOR in NYC with the British guy ( of course), doesnt count ' You know that as Stranger in Paradise from Kismet, but did you know that is from the Polevetsian Dances by Borodin?')
It's not with Chicago. It was with the London Philharmonic--quite a different matter.
As Dave pointed out this is with the London Philharmonic. Solti never recorded this work with the Chicago Symphony. I can remember being excited when the Solti/LPO recording was released but how disappointed I was on hearing it. Yes, it is loud but the brass dominates at the expense of everything else. Dave has often mentioned that Solti was not much of a percussion guy and that is really apparent in this recording. Where are the tam tams in Mars, barely audible. Just listen to what Boult does here in his 1978 recording. You would never know there was a xylophone part in Uranus and the organ is distinctly unimpressive. I could go on but......
@@petercable7768
Thank you both, I am remembering the ad from when I was a kid. Impressed you guys knew the album! I think I assumed it was the Chicago.
As far as the brass dominating that was the hallmark of his tenure at the CSO, so not surprised ( Chicago I think still has one of the best brass sections among the major orchestras, def had that reputation for many years).
Hmmm, I have always liked the Berlin remake better. Need to give them both a listen.
It's really not, either as performance or sound.
Me too. I own both versions.
I prefer the Vienna version overall, but the more rough and raw "Mars" from the Berliner recording is my all time favorite for that movement. Warts and all, it's the most disturbingly warlike Mars I've heard.
Thank you for this review. I have the Berlin remake and enjoy it. But now, I'll have to listen to the Vienna version!?....which will win🤔
Another chord guy was of course Stokowski, who was also great on rhythm, and the layers he uncovers in his recording from L.A. puts this in a superior category, in my opinion. Funnily enough, rarely mentioned
It's a very strange recording, typically capricious in its changes to the orchestration, and oddly balanced in favor of the wind section. I like it for Neptune especially, but it's not really competitive.
I like the Vienna too, so surprising… I mean Herbie and Vienna? Who knew? I like parts of his Berlin remake, but it’s also a party CD, just listen to the low horn intonation in the first 30 seconds… yuck! The Steinberg is also great, although I think Mars was too fast, if I remember correctly.
Good point about Steinberg. The composer told Boult that Mars should be slow, to show the folly of war.
Holst always played Mars very quickly.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I, too, prefer 'Mars' to be slow rather than quick. For ultimate slowness, it's Svetlanov and the Philharmonia Orchestra, who take 8'43" !! It's a fascinating listen!
@@bernardley4540 Out of interest, here are comparative timings:
Boult 1967: 7:11
Boult 1978 7:58
Gibson 1983 7:16
Dutoit 1987 7:09
Karajan 1981 (Berlin): 7:13
Karajan 1960 (Vienna): 7:00
Rattle 2006 7:24
Lloyd-Jones 2002 7:03
Yoel-Levi 1997 6:26
Eliot-Gardiner 1995 8:03
Bernstein 1973ish 6:33
Colin Davis 2002 7:11
Yan Pascal Tortelier 1996 7:25
Ormandy 1976ish 6:56
Steinberg 6:37
So yes: Steinberg is very fast, with one or two exceptions (including Bernstein). Most people seem to fall into the 7:00 - 7:30 range.
My apologies to Dave for an earlier version of this post which misread 'Holst' for 'Boult', who was mainstream timing in his earlier recordings, but slowed down drammatically for his last.
I DO genuinely enjoy this recording, but……as in the Berlin one called out on in the above comment, I find the brass intonation in Mars cringe-worthy in this VPO one as well. I can deal, but it is a blemish for me. Maybe I need to play it louder next time, and sing along….a bit flat….