Imagine if all of the judges are thinking, "Well, James will definitely win the , so let's choose something different" and then James ends up not winning anything
A bit luckily already had a hold on this because it was on the LeGuin prize nominees as well, and that's just come in, so suck it all the masses who've now jumped in line behind! I've seen such heavily divided takes on it, but I like your sentiment "Books that don't do a lot, but do it beautifully" - probably makes me more hopeful it will be my wheelhouse.
Smart prediction Scott. James was great but very America-centric. A good match for the Pulitzer. Orbital offers something more universal so I can see why it hit the spot for this year's group of judges. Every Booker panel has its own character I think. Orbital suited me as a reader too so I am thrilled it won. Hi Nelle!
If I remember correctly, you were one of the people singing it's praise before the longlist was announced, that must be extra pleasing. I agree that the judges are different each year.
@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 haha, only for certain book. I suspect it was your review that convinced me it wasn't likely to be a Scott book. Not that I disagree with you frequently, but your tastes is much broader than mine.
I adored Orbital. Thought it was just fantastic. I can understand why it wouldn't be for everyone. "You avoid it if you like plot." Truer words have never been said. Although, I did like this year's Booker list over last year's. Last year's shortlist was such a disappointment. And thanks to the wife!!
"books that don't do a lot and do it beautifully". Great description for Orbital Scott. It was probably one of my least favorite. I was hoping for Safekeep.
Cliched! So that critique surprises me and I’ll have to think about it. I thought perhaps ‘too many lists’ would have been the more frequent critique. I’m off to book group and coffee this morning in New Zealand to discuss the Booker finalists so will report back to you if anyone had the same impression. PS as someone who grew up with Star Trek, 2001 a Space Odyssey and moon landings, I really loved and appreciated it!
@ I thought it was replete with them- each of us is so small, look how big the earth is, I wonder what they are doing down there on earth, nature is amazing, I feel so alone, I hope they are ok, the world is beautiful why are we messing it up, how did I get here, etc. That may be a bit harsh, but that was my reaction.
I just said this to somebody else just now, but if she had of spent more words building the characters, then she could have brought more perspectives to her themes and conversations. It didn't make me want to put it down and talk to my wife about what it was saying, so I can't say I thought much of the ideas in it.
Good summary and I really liked the shortlist this year, maybe because plot is not important to me. James was absolutely brilliant but I had a couple of doubts - would it still be giving more after three readings, and what would happen if the only man on the shortlist was the winner. Hope it wins the Pulitzer! I thought Stone Yard Devotional might take the prize but I am happy that Orbital won - it really brings home the futility of the idea that we can just leave earth and live somewhere else.
You make a very good point about giving on the third read. I thought James was a very good book, but I only read it once. I think I would like to wait a few years before I read it again.
Thanks Nelle! ❤ Scott have you heard any of the murmurs that Orbital is pro-russia/anti-ukraine? Just curious as I’ve seen a few posts about this online…
I have not heard anything, I will keep my ears open for that. I can only imagine that because the novel contains Russians in the space station and it has a theme of boarderlessness, one could crowbar pro Russia into that... But without first understanding their arguments, I don't like to dismiss them.
I wouldn't say Orbital has no plot, rather a series of "mini-plots". Throughout the story, there is a sense of foreboding as Harvey scattered hints that something disastrous will soon happen. All in all, it's a beautiful novel -- a love letter to planet earth.
I think Nell did a fantastic job! ;) I started Orbital and wasn’t into it, but I was on a plane at the time, which may have coloured the experience. I should give it another go.
@@GunpowderFictionPlot I will read it again, as I wasn't convinced the first time around. But it's short, so I'll put in the effort. Maybe I read it too fast?
I have tried to read Orbital 4 times. It is not for me. Overall a very poor year - even the ones that were my kind of book were not "winners". So much really good stuff that these judges ignored this year. Can't wait for the women's prize longlist!
Very happy that a woman and SFF book won the booker, sad that it once again still doesn't sound like one for me (even though scifi is one my fave genres!). I did think James would win tbh
I'm not sure Orbital is a SFF, I know it's marketed like that and it's set in space, but there isn't anything speculative about it... Maybe that's my narrow view of what sci-fi is, not sure. It's nice to finally have another woman win.
I’m interested in Orbital despite generally being a plot driven reader because Ange has been championing it. Also, glad a woman has won! Can’t lie that I’m also interested in all the reactions! 😂
I didn't like Orbital so that may be ever so slightly clouding my judgement 😂 but I can't help but feel James and Creation Lake were the better choices
Love these hidden Nelle videos! I’m sooooo glad James didn’t win. Sick of it. He’s won everything else. Enough. Of course I’m open to changing my mind if I ever get around to reading it. The Safekeep should have won. But oh well. On to women’s prize. I’ve decided to read all dystopian feminist fiction I can find. Because art immitates life, right? Give me some titles if you have any tucked away in that giant brain of yours.
Feminist dystopian fictions... There's an obscure Canadian author who wrote a novel called The Handmaids Tale. ;p Burncoat by Sarah Hall Tender is the Flesh by Augustina Bazterrica Remember Remember by Ellie Machray Annie Bot by Sierra Geer I Who Have Never Know Men by Jacquline Harpman Julia by Sandra Newman Kim JiYoung Born 1982 by Cho Nam Joo (technically it's not a dystopian, but it is) The Memory of Animals by Claire Fuller Chain Gang All Stars by Nana Kwame Adjei Brunyah Pew by Catherine Lacey Comfort Me with Apples by Cat Valente No One is Talking About This by Patricia Lockwood The MaddAddam Trilogy by that obscure Canadian author The Vegetarian by Han Kang (another one that technically isn't a dystopian, but...) A couple I just finished lately which aren't dystopian, but would fit the mood of what you're looking for are The Lions Den by Iris Mwanza and Tiananmen Square by Lai Wen.
Yeah I went back and watched your long list video as soon as I heard about it. It's the only one I've read and I'm disappointed. Do they award merely style. Is that the defining characteristic of a booker winner? Bc the substance just wasn't there.
I think this set of judges, or at least the majority of them, have very specific tastes, prose, setting, themes in that order and things they don't care about characters and plot and themes can be super subjective. Different years go for different things and while I don't think this is an unusual winner, there are years it wouldn't have made the longlist either. You would probably have enjoyed James and The Safekeep from this year's longlist, they're much more well rounded novels and both deal with issues I know interest you. Orbital really needs to be marketed as literary fiction and not scifi, I know you enjoy both, but that it was in space was a coincidence, it could have been an around the world flight.
Orbital didn’t work for me, and I don’t need plot. Rather than being an authentic story with believable characters, it felt like the points of view were just mouthpieces for the author’s thoughts. The characters should have felt more distinct from each other coming from different cultural backgrounds, but they were bland.
I agree the characters weren't filled in, I don't think she even attempted to do so. When a book goes plotless that's what I'm looking for, characters. I didn't hate the authors thoughts, but with a variety of characters we get a much better conversation which I think was lacking.
I absolutely love Orbital and Stone Yard Devotional and think James is a masterpiece, but the latter feels Pulitzer perfect (please please ) to me & Orbital feels more global citizen to me . Appreciate you and your perspective big time even the rare times it’s different than mine 💚📖🪱💚
I thought James would win the Pulitzer Prize from the moment I read it. It's a fantastic book, but the way it is commenting on how history is/was recorded, makes me think it's exactly the kind of book that prize is looking for.
I was really sad that James didn’t win. If it doesn’t win the Pulitzer, I will lose my mind. Thanks, Scott and Nell.
Imagine if all of the judges are thinking, "Well, James will definitely win the , so let's choose something different" and then James ends up not winning anything
@ That’s actually my fear! 😧
Steve, don't say that, don't even whisper it, now it's definitely going to happen. 😉
It was a tragic that James didn't win l thought: Orbital is so typical of all her work. Nothing new. 💤
@@leonieclarkinaus that's what we writers do ... write typically, in our style. It's like a fingerprint.
I'm really striking out with preferred winners this week. I was rooting for James!
The ONLY book I read and had the ARC from before it was released. I’m happy that a skinny little space book won. I loved it.
A bit luckily already had a hold on this because it was on the LeGuin prize nominees as well, and that's just come in, so suck it all the masses who've now jumped in line behind! I've seen such heavily divided takes on it, but I like your sentiment "Books that don't do a lot, but do it beautifully" - probably makes me more hopeful it will be my wheelhouse.
Smart prediction Scott. James was great but very America-centric. A good match for the Pulitzer. Orbital offers something more universal so I can see why it hit the spot for this year's group of judges. Every Booker panel has its own character I think. Orbital suited me as a reader too so I am thrilled it won. Hi Nelle!
If I remember correctly, you were one of the people singing it's praise before the longlist was announced, that must be extra pleasing. I agree that the judges are different each year.
@@GunpowderFictionPlot I was! You have the memory of an elephant.
@scallydandlingaboutthebook2711 haha, only for certain book. I suspect it was your review that convinced me it wasn't likely to be a Scott book. Not that I disagree with you frequently, but your tastes is much broader than mine.
Thanks Scott and Nell! I agree that James is the book that will appeal to the widest readership but I am delighted to see Orbital win.
I adored Orbital. Thought it was just fantastic. I can understand why it wouldn't be for everyone. "You avoid it if you like plot." Truer words have never been said. Although, I did like this year's Booker list over last year's. Last year's shortlist was such a disappointment. And thanks to the wife!!
Orbital was my pick and I’m really happy! Sorry for all readers who’s pick didn’t win.
It's divided readers, but sometimes that's required.
I have no dog in this fight but I am surprised James did not win!
It is super popular right now, isn't it? I think Orbital is better suited to the judges tastes.
If you’ve never thought about your place in the Earth Orbital is great. If you’ve watched a Planet Earth episode you don’t need to read Orbital
love orbital
"books that don't do a lot and do it beautifully". Great description for Orbital Scott. It was probably one of my least favorite. I was hoping for Safekeep.
Orbital was the least favorite of the short list that I read. It felt cliched and message laden.
Cliched! So that critique surprises me and I’ll have to think about it. I thought perhaps ‘too many lists’ would have been the more frequent critique. I’m off to book group and coffee this morning in New Zealand to discuss the Booker finalists so will report back to you if anyone had the same impression. PS as someone who grew up with Star Trek, 2001 a Space Odyssey and moon landings, I really loved and appreciated it!
And so what was your favourite?
@ I thought it was replete with them- each of us is so small, look how big the earth is, I wonder what they are doing down there on earth, nature is amazing, I feel so alone, I hope they are ok, the world is beautiful why are we messing it up, how did I get here, etc. That may be a bit harsh, but that was my reaction.
@@Sujowi James. Followed by The Safekeep, and then Held. I didn’t read the Kushner book or Stoneyard Devotional
I just said this to somebody else just now, but if she had of spent more words building the characters, then she could have brought more perspectives to her themes and conversations. It didn't make me want to put it down and talk to my wife about what it was saying, so I can't say I thought much of the ideas in it.
Funny ending! 😂
I read 5 of the 6. Which one did I not read? Orbital...
Hahahaha, that's always the way
Good summary and I really liked the shortlist this year, maybe because plot is not important to me. James was absolutely brilliant but I had a couple of doubts - would it still be giving more after three readings, and what would happen if the only man on the shortlist was the winner. Hope it wins the Pulitzer! I thought Stone Yard Devotional might take the prize but I am happy that Orbital won - it really brings home the futility of the idea that we can just leave earth and live somewhere else.
You make a very good point about giving on the third read. I thought James was a very good book, but I only read it once. I think I would like to wait a few years before I read it again.
🌏 I am a happy Booker reader this year 🛰️ Hi Nelle 🥰
More chat with Nell, please 🙏 😊
Haha ha, I would love that, not sure Nelle is up for too many cameos these days, but there's quite a few old videos of the two of us still up.
Thanks Nelle! ❤ Scott have you heard any of the murmurs that Orbital is pro-russia/anti-ukraine? Just curious as I’ve seen a few posts about this online…
I have not heard anything, I will keep my ears open for that. I can only imagine that because the novel contains Russians in the space station and it has a theme of boarderlessness, one could crowbar pro Russia into that... But without first understanding their arguments, I don't like to dismiss them.
I wouldn't say Orbital has no plot, rather a series of "mini-plots". Throughout the story, there is a sense of foreboding as Harvey scattered hints that something disastrous will soon happen. All in all, it's a beautiful novel -- a love letter to planet earth.
Maybe I should have said low plot instead of no plot, not many books have no plot what so ever.
I think Nell did a fantastic job! ;) I started Orbital and wasn’t into it, but I was on a plane at the time, which may have coloured the experience. I should give it another go.
Should you really give it another go? It's so hot or cold, love it or hate it, I doubt anybody is changing their mind on it by re-reading it.
@@GunpowderFictionPlot I will read it again, as I wasn't convinced the first time around. But it's short, so I'll put in the effort. Maybe I read it too fast?
@ 😂 okay I will take your word for it.
I have tried to read Orbital 4 times. It is not for me. Overall a very poor year - even the ones that were my kind of book were not "winners". So much really good stuff that these judges ignored this year. Can't wait for the women's prize longlist!
Women's prize usually suits my taste more than the Booker.
Very happy that a woman and SFF book won the booker, sad that it once again still doesn't sound like one for me (even though scifi is one my fave genres!). I did think James would win tbh
I'm not sure Orbital is a SFF, I know it's marketed like that and it's set in space, but there isn't anything speculative about it... Maybe that's my narrow view of what sci-fi is, not sure. It's nice to finally have another woman win.
I definitely didn't enjoy Booker this year...
I loved Orbital and it stayed with me. That said, I'm a bit disappointed. I think James should have won. But it's all subjective!
Indeed, all prizes are very subjective.
I’m interested in Orbital despite generally being a plot driven reader because Ange has been championing it. Also, glad a woman has won! Can’t lie that I’m also interested in all the reactions! 😂
I cannot tell if I should pick up Orbital or not!! Gah.
Shelly, when you are in the mood for something quiet and reassuring, that might be a good time to pick up Orbital. I loved it.
I think you will like Orbital Shelley, but I agree with Lindy, wait until you're in the mood for a quiet and contemplative read.
I liked headsot
In hindsight in very surprised Headshot didn't make the shortlist over Held.
I didn't like Orbital so that may be ever so slightly clouding my judgement 😂 but I can't help but feel James and Creation Lake were the better choices
If I were a judge they would rank higher than Orbital too - but I can appreciate how people with different reading tastes to me would enjoy Orbital.
No plot
No character development
No particularly deep or novel perspectives or ideas
Orbital is an absolute snooze fest
😴😴
Love these hidden Nelle videos! I’m sooooo glad James didn’t win. Sick of it. He’s won everything else. Enough. Of course I’m open to changing my mind if I ever get around to reading it.
The Safekeep should have won. But oh well. On to women’s prize.
I’ve decided to read all dystopian feminist fiction I can find. Because art immitates life, right? Give me some titles if you have any tucked away in that giant brain of yours.
Feminist dystopian fictions... There's an obscure Canadian author who wrote a novel called The Handmaids Tale. ;p
Burncoat by Sarah Hall
Tender is the Flesh by Augustina Bazterrica
Remember Remember by Ellie Machray
Annie Bot by Sierra Geer
I Who Have Never Know Men by Jacquline Harpman
Julia by Sandra Newman
Kim JiYoung Born 1982 by Cho Nam Joo (technically it's not a dystopian, but it is)
The Memory of Animals by Claire Fuller
Chain Gang All Stars by Nana Kwame Adjei Brunyah
Pew by Catherine Lacey
Comfort Me with Apples by Cat Valente
No One is Talking About This by Patricia Lockwood
The MaddAddam Trilogy by that obscure Canadian author
The Vegetarian by Han Kang (another one that technically isn't a dystopian, but...)
A couple I just finished lately which aren't dystopian, but would fit the mood of what you're looking for are The Lions Den by Iris Mwanza and Tiananmen Square by Lai Wen.
@@GunpowderFictionPlot This is a very interesting list. As I'm in a similar mood, I definitely plan to check out these titles! 😁
@@GunpowderFictionPlot Thanks. :-). Appreciate you!
Yeah I went back and watched your long list video as soon as I heard about it. It's the only one I've read and I'm disappointed. Do they award merely style. Is that the defining characteristic of a booker winner? Bc the substance just wasn't there.
I think this set of judges, or at least the majority of them, have very specific tastes, prose, setting, themes in that order and things they don't care about characters and plot and themes can be super subjective.
Different years go for different things and while I don't think this is an unusual winner, there are years it wouldn't have made the longlist either.
You would probably have enjoyed James and The Safekeep from this year's longlist, they're much more well rounded novels and both deal with issues I know interest you. Orbital really needs to be marketed as literary fiction and not scifi, I know you enjoy both, but that it was in space was a coincidence, it could have been an around the world flight.
❤💤😴💤❤
Hahahaaha
Orbital didn’t work for me, and I don’t need plot. Rather than being an authentic story with believable characters, it felt like the points of view were just mouthpieces for the author’s thoughts. The characters should have felt more distinct from each other coming from different cultural backgrounds, but they were bland.
I agree the characters weren't filled in, I don't think she even attempted to do so. When a book goes plotless that's what I'm looking for, characters. I didn't hate the authors thoughts, but with a variety of characters we get a much better conversation which I think was lacking.
Oh hi Nelle!
I really didn't want James or Held to win so I'm pleased
I'm quite relieved Held didn't win.
I wanted James, but as soon as I saw Everett was the only male on the shortlist, I knew he wouldn't win. I liked Orbital, but I'm still disappointed.
Sad to see The Safekeep ignored; it felt like a tiny, perfect gem to me. I read Orbital, but barely remembered it a week later. 🫤
The Safekeep was my favourite from the longlist too, but it wasn't to be. :( Maybe the Women's Prize will have it.
I absolutely love Orbital and Stone Yard Devotional and think James is a masterpiece, but the latter feels Pulitzer perfect (please please ) to me & Orbital feels more global citizen to me . Appreciate you and your perspective big time even the rare times it’s different than mine 💚📖🪱💚
I thought James would win the Pulitzer Prize from the moment I read it. It's a fantastic book, but the way it is commenting on how history is/was recorded, makes me think it's exactly the kind of book that prize is looking for.