The "effective DPI" is no myth, it's just depicts the actual resolution of the scan without up-resing (interpolating) the scan. I've made hundreds (if not thousands) of scans with various flatbed scanners of film (35mm - 8x10") and only very few of them have the resolution clamied by manufacterers. The best Epson scanners get to around 2.000 dpi and while that may be due to the lens, it's still a limitation you can't overcome. And yes, I did ajust the focus, used completely flat film holders etc. This day and age it's better to digitise negatives with a camera and a good macro lens anyway as the actual film resolutionis pretty low anyway (unless you shoot special film under special conditions with a special lens). EDIT: and those steaks are most likely due to dirt/debris on the mirror, the lens and/or the sensor. If it was on the flatbed glass it would't run perfectly straight through the image and if it was damage on the negative you wouldn't see in the image without a negative. But even the most expensive film scanners have the same issue with streaks/lines. You'd have to clean the inside of the scanner to get rid of then unless it's a faulty sensor or chip.
Ok so. I'm using a v350 and man o man did your trilogy help, you basically made me capable of scanning my own film with decent results out of a 30€ scanner, it did take some trial and error and it will take a lot more but i'm already taking scans that o would've paid 10€ a roll, GREAT videos
This was an interesting video. I do - or at least try to do - archival scanning of reflective media that is archived to Internet Archive, in an informal capacity. RE: Scanning Tech & Hardware Aside from dedicated institutional and archival scanners, which are sold in the multi-thousand, sometimes hundred-thousand dollar range (Zeutschel GmbH, for example), scanner hardware, the R&D itself, stopped a long time ago. Digital-Transitions speaks to this in one of their presentations from last year. Nobody is improving scanners anymore. The sole difference with the lower-end Epson's, compared to the high-end lies in the light-source, from CCFL to LED, and better optics. That's it. Nothing else has changed in ~25 years. A few points of note: Don't place sharp, metal or abrasive objects on the scanner's glass. Wear cotton gloves. Pick up objects vs dragging. You're going to cause micro scratches and abrasions that are not visible to the naked eye, but are there if you do an 'open-lid, dark room' test scan with nothing on the glass and then turn levels/exposure up in Photoshop. As you pointed out, scanners are so FRAGILE and the tolerances for these things are very poor. The tiniest scratches on the glass in a specific region will cause those horizontal lines. Those, of course, can be caused by other things, like dust (accept it, vs fight it, is what I've learned - do your best and good enough is good enough) and/or a bad or fault CCD sensor. There's a reason why the archival, cultural heritage preservation, museum, and fine art reproduction communities have switches to camera scanning (a la, Phase One et al., etc) - though camera scanning comes with its own nuances, issues, expenses (oh my god, it costs how much?!) and learning curves, I would switch to camera scanning in a second if it was affordable. I own the v850 and have been down the color profiling rabbit hole lately. It's quite a learning journey for profiling scanners/cameras correctly. Edit: Spelling.
I use the Pacific Image Prime Film XA for all my 35mm and love the results. Flatbed for 35mm is just not great in comparison. CCD sensors and all. I have a v700 for 120 film and have recently started fluid mounting, I am very pleased with the results thought I still have some experimenting to do (got the Epson fluid mount kit). Before that I experimented and got the optimal height for the film holder on my particular scanner. A tip, you can easily open up those epson scanners and clean the glass on the inside. Also, I went with VueScan for my scanning software. I actually bought a pro license before they changed the licensing model so I am lucky to be grandfathered in.
Excellent technique for finding the focus height (assuming the height is actually consistent across the whole bed). I'm going to try that method to confirm the results I already got using the height-adjustable trays. Regarding fluid scanning, I've been scanning 70-90 year old 120 film using the V850, Epson fluid mounting tray, Gamsol (odorless mineral spirits - I don't know anybody using water) and Dura-Lar mylar. With fluid scanning I'm seeing a slight increase in resolution and a bit more obvious increase in contrast, which by themselves would not be worth the effort of fluid scanning. However, I'm also seeing an astonishing reduction in fine scratches, making the effort totally worth it, because that 120 film was not well-cared for. On the other hand, I don't anticipate using fluid on other 60-year old 127 sized film, which was well cared for - unless I have trouble finding a 127 sized film holder, which might again make fluid scanning the best option.
Judging from the filename, the lab-scanned image was probably done on a fuji frontier. Probably an older model (not SP3000) with dust on the sensor (or on the diffuser).
LOL I just came here from that website article about "effective dpi". Thank you for this video. I often find that the more you deep dive into topic the less you care about it afterwards. It`s like chasing a bus every morning to save a minute or two. Sure, there are situations for that in life. But globally nothing will change. Same everywhere. No reason in getting the best possible IQ out of the photo when it is literally meaningless, or boring, or "whatever". Or constantly looking for a better camera. I have RB67, Pentax 645Nii, Mamiya C330F and 1000S all with great lens kits. But guess what camera I use the most? An old Mamiya 6 from 1956. Everything else is a search for something that would make me a better photographer. Also to satisfy the gods of GAS, haha. And I use Epson v500. yep. Legend
all this video series has done is convinced me to use camera scanning regarless of any drawbacks lol. Question: Why not replace the scanner glass with etched glass surely this would save some effort?
Great stuff! Gonna fine trim my scanning trying an etched "white glass": made from chemically pre-treated quartz sand and a green tint is avoided by removing iron oxide. Any thoughts on that? Thank's for amazing videos
Seeing that Ender3 and then having you talk about it being warped from the factory made me wince- I have a V3 and V3 pro sitting in the closet for shitty tramming from the factory. Repaired a cheap(lmao) ankermake m5 and so far my prints have been within tolerance for me, 0.01 or so on shitty calipers. So maybe your idea about a focused, printed mount set to your own dimensions once you have your accuracy isn't dead.
I've looked everywhere to find a way to simply create a six or seven strip contact sheet. It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough so I know what I've got on the negatives. Most scanners have at the best two strips. Any advice?
I’ve been looking into wet mounting my 8x10 on my V850 pro. A majority of the reasoning is eliminating dust and reducing any chances for newton rings. It’s been a challenge to scan the whole 8x10 negative as large a file as possible which is annoying after spending $500, which admittedly a bargain. I know it’s possible but it’s frustrating sometimes
I bought a friend's Negative supply setup recently - the older copy stand and 3d printed holders. Since using a digital camera with a macro lens I've not taken the dust cover off my Epson v800. It's this infuriating line of thinking and obsessing over getting perfect scans from a flatbed that made me hate using mine so much that I just stopped scanning period. I'll use the Epson when I do 4x5 but for 135 and 120 film I'm digital camera scanning and never looking back!
These are great videos! Is there a video about the inversion process? I see there are 8 videos available in this playlist but only four of them are available for some reason. Thanks again.
It will be out in a few weeks, they are pre uploaded I only publish once a week and I have a few other vids I need to get out ahead of that. BUT, if you search google for "The BEST Methods for Inverting & Sharpening Film Scans" (with the quotes) You will find it!
@ShyStudios Hi, great videos! In one of your film you mentioned about custom 3d printed scan mask that allow you to scan above the surface 0.2 mm. I'm designing my own holder which will allow me to scan with borders. I'm wondering what material u used to keep it above? I was thinking about hybrid glass like for iphone its kinda 0.2 as well mounted to the bottom of holder with 3 and 5 mm of space for holding negatives where the perforation is but Im afraid that it wont keep my film flat enough. Can you give some advices here?
My original holder design was a SINGLE 0.2mm layer of material along the sides (overlapping the sprocket holes) of the film holder. I think the main key to achieving flatness is upper mounting pressure, so if you can use some kind of extra glass along the sides I think that would work as long as you have enough force pushing everything down. Would prob be a pain to secure it accurately. Also adding another layer of glass might induce newton rings or just degrade scan quality in general so I'd avoid having any glass directly touching the actual exposed part of the negative. Honestly I've been thinking about designing a metal plate for epson scanners that would solve a lot of my own problems.
@@ShyStudios yes, so same as I'm thinking.. just not sure what material should I use for this extra glass holding film on the sprocket holes to do not change colour of image or do not create some artifacts on scans even on sprocket part because I scan some plexi glass or acrylic cutted by myself and let me tell you.. its not a good idea. A lot of scratches or bouncing light on edges. Its time consuming to clean the sprocet in post prod. I have already max sizes for epson v600 and I'm thinking about something like lomography digitaliza where no anr glass would be needed.. something with magnets to hold everything flat but there need to be some transparent material on both sides holding the sprocets and its only 3mm on medium format so not a lot of force can be achieved. But still trying to make life easier
@@mariuszkedziora5729 I've experimented with single frame holders that rely on clamping between the frame gaps while also trying to stretch the film out, it still distorts the film, even when the film is relatively flat unfortunately. Glass pressing down on top seems to be the best way of keeping things flat. If the phone glass below the film and above the scanner's glass does not effect quality or induce newton rings then it might be the easiest way to raise the film above the bed.
Another tip: coffee filters and isoprop alcohol to clean the glass, it usually doesn't leave fiber residues and is pretty cheap... Though I usually use zeiss lens wipes for scanning negatives, leaving this alternative method for less sensitive reflective scans.
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The "effective DPI" is no myth, it's just depicts the actual resolution of the scan without up-resing (interpolating) the scan. I've made hundreds (if not thousands) of scans with various flatbed scanners of film (35mm - 8x10") and only very few of them have the resolution clamied by manufacterers. The best Epson scanners get to around 2.000 dpi and while that may be due to the lens, it's still a limitation you can't overcome. And yes, I did ajust the focus, used completely flat film holders etc. This day and age it's better to digitise negatives with a camera and a good macro lens anyway as the actual film resolutionis pretty low anyway (unless you shoot special film under special conditions with a special lens).
EDIT: and those steaks are most likely due to dirt/debris on the mirror, the lens and/or the sensor. If it was on the flatbed glass it would't run perfectly straight through the image and if it was damage on the negative you wouldn't see in the image without a negative. But even the most expensive film scanners have the same issue with streaks/lines. You'd have to clean the inside of the scanner to get rid of then unless it's a faulty sensor or chip.
Ok so.
I'm using a v350 and man o man did your trilogy help, you basically made me capable of scanning my own film with decent results out of a 30€ scanner, it did take some trial and error and it will take a lot more but i'm already taking scans that o would've paid 10€ a roll, GREAT videos
This was an interesting video.
I do - or at least try to do - archival scanning of reflective media that is archived to Internet Archive, in an informal capacity.
RE: Scanning Tech & Hardware
Aside from dedicated institutional and archival scanners, which are sold in the multi-thousand, sometimes hundred-thousand dollar range (Zeutschel GmbH, for example), scanner hardware, the R&D itself, stopped a long time ago. Digital-Transitions speaks to this in one of their presentations from last year. Nobody is improving scanners anymore. The sole difference with the lower-end Epson's, compared to the high-end lies in the light-source, from CCFL to LED, and better optics. That's it. Nothing else has changed in ~25 years.
A few points of note:
Don't place sharp, metal or abrasive objects on the scanner's glass. Wear cotton gloves. Pick up objects vs dragging. You're going to cause micro scratches and abrasions that are not visible to the naked eye, but are there if you do an 'open-lid, dark room' test scan with nothing on the glass and then turn levels/exposure up in Photoshop. As you pointed out, scanners are so FRAGILE and the tolerances for these things are very poor. The tiniest scratches on the glass in a specific region will cause those horizontal lines. Those, of course, can be caused by other things, like dust (accept it, vs fight it, is what I've learned - do your best and good enough is good enough) and/or a bad or fault CCD sensor.
There's a reason why the archival, cultural heritage preservation, museum, and fine art reproduction communities have switches to camera scanning (a la, Phase One et al., etc) - though camera scanning comes with its own nuances, issues, expenses (oh my god, it costs how much?!) and learning curves, I would switch to camera scanning in a second if it was affordable.
I own the v850 and have been down the color profiling rabbit hole lately. It's quite a learning journey for profiling scanners/cameras correctly.
Edit: Spelling.
OMG thanks youtube algorithm for this video! If I wasn't broke I would have bought a 850 pro to you my man!
I use the Pacific Image Prime Film XA for all my 35mm and love the results. Flatbed for 35mm is just not great in comparison. CCD sensors and all. I have a v700 for 120 film and have recently started fluid mounting, I am very pleased with the results thought I still have some experimenting to do (got the Epson fluid mount kit). Before that I experimented and got the optimal height for the film holder on my particular scanner. A tip, you can easily open up those epson scanners and clean the glass on the inside. Also, I went with VueScan for my scanning software. I actually bought a pro license before they changed the licensing model so I am lucky to be grandfathered in.
Excellent technique for finding the focus height (assuming the height is actually consistent across the whole bed). I'm going to try that method to confirm the results I already got using the height-adjustable trays. Regarding fluid scanning, I've been scanning 70-90 year old 120 film using the V850, Epson fluid mounting tray, Gamsol (odorless mineral spirits - I don't know anybody using water) and Dura-Lar mylar. With fluid scanning I'm seeing a slight increase in resolution and a bit more obvious increase in contrast, which by themselves would not be worth the effort of fluid scanning. However, I'm also seeing an astonishing reduction in fine scratches, making the effort totally worth it, because that 120 film was not well-cared for. On the other hand, I don't anticipate using fluid on other 60-year old 127 sized film, which was well cared for - unless I have trouble finding a 127 sized film holder, which might again make fluid scanning the best option.
Judging from the filename, the lab-scanned image was probably done on a fuji frontier. Probably an older model (not SP3000) with dust on the sensor (or on the diffuser).
LOL I just came here from that website article about "effective dpi". Thank you for this video. I often find that the more you deep dive into topic the less you care about it afterwards. It`s like chasing a bus every morning to save a minute or two. Sure, there are situations for that in life. But globally nothing will change. Same everywhere. No reason in getting the best possible IQ out of the photo when it is literally meaningless, or boring, or "whatever". Or constantly looking for a better camera. I have RB67, Pentax 645Nii, Mamiya C330F and 1000S all with great lens kits. But guess what camera I use the most? An old Mamiya 6 from 1956. Everything else is a search for something that would make me a better photographer. Also to satisfy the gods of GAS, haha. And I use Epson v500. yep. Legend
all this video series has done is convinced me to use camera scanning regarless of any drawbacks lol. Question: Why not replace the scanner glass with etched glass surely this would save some effort?
Great stuff! Gonna fine trim my scanning trying an etched "white glass": made from chemically pre-treated quartz sand and a green tint is avoided by removing iron oxide. Any thoughts on that? Thank's for amazing videos
Seeing that Ender3 and then having you talk about it being warped from the factory made me wince- I have a V3 and V3 pro sitting in the closet for shitty tramming from the factory. Repaired a cheap(lmao) ankermake m5 and so far my prints have been within tolerance for me, 0.01 or so on shitty calipers. So maybe your idea about a focused, printed mount set to your own dimensions once you have your accuracy isn't dead.
I've looked everywhere to find a way to simply create a six or seven strip contact sheet. It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough so I know what I've got on the negatives. Most scanners have at the best two strips. Any advice?
I’ve been looking into wet mounting my 8x10 on my V850 pro. A majority of the reasoning is eliminating dust and reducing any chances for newton rings. It’s been a challenge to scan the whole 8x10 negative as large a file as possible which is annoying after spending $500, which admittedly a bargain. I know it’s possible but it’s frustrating sometimes
I bought a friend's Negative supply setup recently - the older copy stand and 3d printed holders. Since using a digital camera with a macro lens I've not taken the dust cover off my Epson v800. It's this infuriating line of thinking and obsessing over getting perfect scans from a flatbed that made me hate using mine so much that I just stopped scanning period. I'll use the Epson when I do 4x5 but for 135 and 120 film I'm digital camera scanning and never looking back!
These are great videos! Is there a video about the inversion process? I see there are 8 videos available in this playlist but only four of them are available for some reason. Thanks again.
It will be out in a few weeks, they are pre uploaded I only publish once a week and I have a few other vids I need to get out ahead of that. BUT, if you search google for "The BEST Methods for Inverting & Sharpening Film Scans" (with the quotes) You will find it!
I was about to ask the same thing. Glad to see they will be out soon but we can view them now. Also more DayZ videos, keep em coming lol. @@ShyStudios
Wow great video thanks!
@ShyStudios Hi, great videos! In one of your film you mentioned about custom 3d printed scan mask that allow you to scan above the surface 0.2 mm. I'm designing my own holder which will allow me to scan with borders. I'm wondering what material u used to keep it above? I was thinking about hybrid glass like for iphone its kinda 0.2 as well mounted to the bottom of holder with 3 and 5 mm of space for holding negatives where the perforation is but Im afraid that it wont keep my film flat enough. Can you give some advices here?
My original holder design was a SINGLE 0.2mm layer of material along the sides (overlapping the sprocket holes) of the film holder. I think the main key to achieving flatness is upper mounting pressure, so if you can use some kind of extra glass along the sides I think that would work as long as you have enough force pushing everything down. Would prob be a pain to secure it accurately. Also adding another layer of glass might induce newton rings or just degrade scan quality in general so I'd avoid having any glass directly touching the actual exposed part of the negative.
Honestly I've been thinking about designing a metal plate for epson scanners that would solve a lot of my own problems.
@@ShyStudios yes, so same as I'm thinking.. just not sure what material should I use for this extra glass holding film on the sprocket holes to do not change colour of image or do not create some artifacts on scans even on sprocket part because I scan some plexi glass or acrylic cutted by myself and let me tell you.. its not a good idea. A lot of scratches or bouncing light on edges. Its time consuming to clean the sprocet in post prod. I have already max sizes for epson v600 and I'm thinking about something like lomography digitaliza where no anr glass would be needed.. something with magnets to hold everything flat but there need to be some transparent material on both sides holding the sprocets and its only 3mm on medium format so not a lot of force can be achieved. But still trying to make life easier
@@mariuszkedziora5729 I've experimented with single frame holders that rely on clamping between the frame gaps while also trying to stretch the film out, it still distorts the film, even when the film is relatively flat unfortunately. Glass pressing down on top seems to be the best way of keeping things flat. If the phone glass below the film and above the scanner's glass does not effect quality or induce newton rings then it might be the easiest way to raise the film above the bed.
Every time I found those pesky straight lines I was able to get rid of them by cleaning those small sensors
Another tip: coffee filters and isoprop alcohol to clean the glass, it usually doesn't leave fiber residues and is pretty cheap... Though I usually use zeiss lens wipes for scanning negatives, leaving this alternative method for less sensitive reflective scans.