at 7:50 1- Can a pedestrian cross a road at such corner without any zebra/pedestrian crossing? 2- does the pedestrian have priority over the oncoming motorists from the left-hand lane (given that there is no zebra/pedestrian crossing)?
The pedestrian has priority over the two turning vehicles (no zebra crossing required). They do NOT have priority over vehicles travelling along the other road. If that were the case, there would be chaos on the roads with pedestrians being run over everywhere! These are Western Australian rules - you must also check your local jurisdiction. Thanks for watching.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 Thanks for clarifying this, what if the pedestrians have zebra crossings with the pedestrian button to press, and they've got "the red man" showing. Would it be correct to assume that they have to wait for the green light, or do turning vehicles still have to give way to them?
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 Hi! What if the traffic signals are green on your side despite the red blinking person on the side your turning left into? Does the pedestrians need to wait on the middle of big road or should they keep crossing and you have to wait for them?
@cybeleamorarceri2697 when the signals start to blink the pedestrian should continue to complete their crossing with purpose. It's situational though, as a person with limited mobility might feel safer remaking in the middle median strip. This might cause problems if nobody else comes along and presses the button to activate the pedestrian phase again when their turn comes. But from a driving test point of view, you need to be aware of, and give way to pedestrians completing their crossing when you are turning right or left on a green light with traffic signals. Sometimes the pedestrians are a bit late completing their crossing or they might be jaywalking. You will likely fail if you don't give way. If there are no pedestrian signals you always give way to pedestrians who are crossing the new street when you are turning left or right.
Interesting, I thought a car at a 🛑 sign turning Left had to give way to the car at a 🛑 sign turning right, but you said small turn before big turn, good to know 👏
Try that at traffic lights and see what happens! Better still, don't try it - or you could cause a serious crash! However, if the car turning left is in a turning lane with an island, then yes, the car turning left has to give way to a car in the process of turning right - but that's because they are no longer turning left at the actual intersection, but rather several metres down the road from the intersection and need to give way to vehicles already on the road.
hi, during the test (joondalup) would the assessor tell you specifically which side to park on for forward/reverse or would you have the freedom to choose? thank you
Hey, I love your videos, they have helped me a TON! I just have two quick questions... The first one is the situation with the Blue & Purple car @ 1:20, both cars should be able to proceed at the same time and not hit each other if they just turn properly. Though from first-hand experience (I made the turn but the person turning right at the other sign stopped when they saw I was also turning) it seems people avoid turning right at the same time as each other... so are they thinking whoever got to their stop sign first, goes first..? Should I always just proceed in the said situation? The second one is about the Left something Behind exercise, I have attempted it and watched the videos many times, but it really seems difficult to stay on the correct side of the road when reversing out of the driveway. I drive a big car and even if I instantly lock the steering I end up going onto the other side of the road a bit, I lost a point for "understeering" when it was not possible for me to steer more than I did. So I guess I need to be going deeper into the driveway? but then I have a problem with the "private property mailbox line" is the front wheels that have to be behind the mailbox or the nose of the car? It seems impossible to correctly complete the manoeuvre in a big car with the houses that have their mailbox relatively close to the road. (also do you know any street names they commonly do this exercise on?) Thanks for any replies! I really appreciate it.
1) yes, you can both go at the same time if you're both doing right hand turns. You turn early so that you don't pass through the midpoint of the intersection. That way you miss each other. It's not based on who got there first. It's who has right of way in the specific instant that you doing your evaluating. 2) when going forwards into a driveway on the right, you enter the driveway slightly left of centre AND THEN POINT THE CAR SLIGHTLY TO THE RIGHT before stopping. Don't go past the letterbox (if it's correctly positioned at the boundary of the council verge and the resident's private property). Watch our TH-cam video "West Perth Driving Test - Left Something Behind". It covers your question. Thanks for watching and commenting.
LSB commonly on Carlton Turn Currambine, Nottinghill St Joondalup (using laneways), Regents Park Rd Joondalup (using sidestreets). It's all covered in our videos. Take the time to watch them all - in their entirety.
One question, IF there is BOTH a Green Light and a Green Filter Right Arrow, which one to follow? can I follow both or anyone at a time? (for green light only, I must stay in the middle of the road for a right turn to judge oncoming traffic, for a green filter right arrow I don't have to)
Firstly you need to check your local rules. But for Western Australia, if it's a green light but without the arrow the first car in line moves out beyond the line and completes the turn only when it's safe because the oncoming traffic also has a green light. The second car must wait behind the line if the first car can't complete its turn straight away. Once the first car is definitely clearing the intersection, the second car can carefully enter if it's still a green light. Obviously if it's a green light but with a red right turn arrow, the the right turning vehicles must remain behind the line until the arrow either drops or turns green. If there is a green right turn arrow, all right turning cars can proceed safely without yielding to oncoming traffic - because the oncoming traffic will be stopped by a red light. Thanks for the question. Hopefully I answered it adequately. We have two other videos to help you with right turns at traffic lights - but remember, they are based on Western Australian rules.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 thank u very much for the detailed answer, I didn't know there's also "a green light but with a red right turn arrow". I just wonder how the oncoming traffic from both left or right of the car waiting in the middle to turn right will pass, when its stuck in a red light right arrow in the middle of road.
If you were presented with a green light and red right arrow, then you wouldn't proceed into the middle if you intended to turn right. You would wait behind the line and not enter the intersection - but you would keep your eyes on the lights. Eventually the red arrow might either drop or turn green (or the solitary circular green light might go amber and then red). There would never be a scenario where you were lured into the middle by a solitary green light and then a red arrow came on. It just wouldn't happen - because drivers would get stranded in the middle as you described. Have faith in the traffic light programming and you'll be OK. Again, remember to consult your local rules in case they differ to Western Australia. Thanks for the comment.
The basic premise is that if you can't see, you don't go. But make sure that you move up as close as possible to the stop line (without stopping over it). That way you will maximise you line of sight to your right and maybe you can see far enough to make a safe decision on whether to go or exit. If your line of sight is insufficient, wait until you can see properly. Many learner drivers stop too far short of stop and give way lines. Thanks for watching.
Hi, I am just wondering to know, who has the right of the way when pedestrians crossing the side road, and the vehicle from left or right turing into the side road where the pedestrian crossing, should turning vehicle give way to the pedestrian ( straight crossing the side road) first?
Western Australian interpretation: Give Way to pedestrians who are trying to cross the road that you are turning into at an intersection (unless it's a roundabout or the pedestrian is facing a Red walk signal.) Don't wave the pedestrian onto the road. It must be the pedestrian's own decision to step onto the road. Make eye contact with the pedestrian and wait for them to respond. If they show no intention of stepping on the road, you can decide to proceed with caution. But if this occurs in your driving test you must vocalise your thoughts so the assessor can assess your decision making process and ensure that you know what you're doing. Based on WA jurisdiction. Check the rules for your own jurisdiction if outside of Western Australia. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Does this give way rule apply when before entering roundabout? Some roundabout at Joondalup has pedestrian footpath before we enter the roundabout ,do we give way to them cross first then proceed toward our give way line?
If it is a painted zebra crossing, then yes. But I can't think of any roundabouts like that in Joondalup. There are plenty of decorative brick paved areas around roundabouts where pedestrians can cross (after giving away to traffic).
The roundabout 1. Boas Avenue & Lakeside Drive, 2. Shenton Avenue & Davidson Avenue, at the medium concrete island, there's some part of it which is flat( similiar with the one that in front of Dome cafe), kinda desigen to indicate pedestrian walk through or waiting at the middle, and always some pedestrian waiting there, bit confuse whether we need to give way or not everytime before entering the roundabout
@@AustineAkTinggie-qi4yn yes, I know those roundabouts. There are gaps on the kerbs as you say but no white painted zebra stripes. Roundabouts are all about keeping vehicle traffic moving. Pedestrians are meant to give way - but they often don't realise it, so always proceed with caution but don't slow down so much that you lull them into thinking that you're stopping for them.
Really appreciated for the reply, moving back to Perth this recently after 15 years residing interstate, never thought of this when I was a kid here, I can only say different state is totally different systems operating.
Many of the rules would be the same but there will always be some subtle differences. You need to learn your own rules thoroughly as part of your learning journey. There should be specific literature put out by your licensing authority and you need to study it.
If both cars are stopped then it doesn't matter who got there first - the standard rules apply, so you can't turn to the right across the opposite car's path. If the blue car is still approaching the stop line, then it's a question of whether the blue car is far enough away that you can turn right without danger. Danger could arise because a very high percentage of cars don't fully stop at stop lines. So if the blue car is sufficiently close to the stop line that you can't be sure that you can get around safely before they get close to the line, then it's essential to wait and observe what they do. Many people have failed their driving test because they turned right while fully expecting the opposing car to obey the law and stop at the stop line. But don't assume anything. You share the roads with the best and the worst of drivers! Thanks for the question.
What if it’s not at an intersection and just on a general road, before the traffic lights or a small street in a built up area? Do we still give way to pedestrians? What if they’ve already stepped on to the road?
You need to give way to pedestrians when approaching a stop line or give way line at an intersection. Pedestrians shouldn't be randomly stepping in front of you while you are travelling straight along a street (not near a stop line or give way line) - but if they do, you must obviously do your best to avoid hitting them. If you are turning into another road at an intersection, you must give way to pedestrians who are attempting to cross the road that you're turning into. Don't ever wave them onto the road! It must be the pedestrian's own decision to step onto the road. These rules don't apply at roundabouts - where the aim is to keep traffic flowing and vehicles have priority over pedestrians. Pedestrians crossing a turning lane from/to an island have priority against vehicles. NOTE: These rules apply to Western Australia. Check your own local jurisdiction if outside of WA.
If I reverse out of driveway to do 3 points turn around , I can see my car is proceeding to be contain in my side of street, but there is a car coming from opposite side direction. The street doesn’t have middle divide line. Do I stop moving and waiting, or do I still moving slowly.
It would be safer to wait. That car might need to move across the centre of the road at the last moment to adequately clear a badly parked car or to give a cyclist sufficient room. They might also hesitate because of you reversing out as they don't know your exact path. Better to be safe than sorry and eliminate all possible causes of failing your test.
@@123binqchen you still have to weigh up the situation. It is legal to cross a solid line to get around an obstacle or to legally overtake a bike. It also depends on the width of the road. And it depends on your path out of the driveway. Remember that when you enter the driveway, you should offset your vehicle to point to the right a bit so that your path out onto the road is as close to the kerb as possible.
Last time my path out of the driveway onto the road is bit of angle from rear wheel , the assessor is not happy. What if I fix it , like forwards and backwards extra one more time in the driveway before get to the road , will I lose any points ?
@123binqchen you are being tested on doing a 3 point turn - not a 5 point turn. It's not too difficult. Just drive into the driveway accurately, make sure the back of your car just clears the road, and stop on the driveway with the car pointing slightly to the right. That way you won't have to do a full 90 degree turn when reversing onto the road and the back of your car should stay on your half of the road. If you turn it into a 5 stage manoeuvre, you will likely lose a point for "Flow".
Hi mate, I am from south Australia and really love it videos ☘️☘️ They are so informative and so easy to understand and the way u explain is simple fantastic 😍😍 One question. .. suppose I am on the red light ( instead of STOP sign) and the blue car is in the slip lane about to turn left . And when its green, should I wait for the blue car to pass and then go ?
If the blue car is in a slip lane with an island, then they are physically separated from the intersection. In that case you go first because there is nobody coming straight through or turning left AT THE INTERSECTION. If there is no island and they are turning AT THE INTERSECTION in a dedicated turning lane, you must wait for them to turn left first as per the video. It's the existence of the island that turns the rule on its head. Usually at the end of the slip lane with the island there will be a Give Way line which means the car at the Give Way line needs to give way to the traffic going past the line.
In jurisdictions where you drive on the left hand side if the road it's "give way to your right". Google "uncontrolled crossroads" or something similar.
So good, thank you
the BEST junction explanatory video on youtube, I have watched many, but this is the most detailed one. Thank u very much
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you very much,you are the best!
So helpful! Thank you
at 7:50 1- Can a pedestrian cross a road at such corner without any zebra/pedestrian crossing?
2- does the pedestrian have priority over the oncoming motorists from the left-hand lane (given that there is no zebra/pedestrian crossing)?
The pedestrian has priority over the two turning vehicles (no zebra crossing required). They do NOT have priority over vehicles travelling along the other road. If that were the case, there would be chaos on the roads with pedestrians being run over everywhere! These are Western Australian rules - you must also check your local jurisdiction. Thanks for watching.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 Thanks for clarifying this, what if the pedestrians have zebra crossings with the pedestrian button to press, and they've got "the red man" showing. Would it be correct to assume that they have to wait for the green light, or do turning vehicles still have to give way to them?
@@taratee3822 if there's a button to press, it will also activate traffic signals.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 Hi!
What if the traffic signals are green on your side despite the red blinking person on the side your turning left into?
Does the pedestrians need to wait on the middle of big road or should they keep crossing and you have to wait for them?
@cybeleamorarceri2697 when the signals start to blink the pedestrian should continue to complete their crossing with purpose. It's situational though, as a person with limited mobility might feel safer remaking in the middle median strip. This might cause problems if nobody else comes along and presses the button to activate the pedestrian phase again when their turn comes. But from a driving test point of view, you need to be aware of, and give way to pedestrians completing their crossing when you are turning right or left on a green light with traffic signals. Sometimes the pedestrians are a bit late completing their crossing or they might be jaywalking. You will likely fail if you don't give way. If there are no pedestrian signals you always give way to pedestrians who are crossing the new street when you are turning left or right.
Thank you very much
Interesting, I thought a car at a 🛑 sign turning Left had to give way to the car at a 🛑 sign turning right, but you said small turn before big turn, good to know 👏
Try that at traffic lights and see what happens! Better still, don't try it - or you could cause a serious crash! However, if the car turning left is in a turning lane with an island, then yes, the car turning left has to give way to a car in the process of turning right - but that's because they are no longer turning left at the actual intersection, but rather several metres down the road from the intersection and need to give way to vehicles already on the road.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 good call, traffic lights 🚦 analogy makes sense 👍
hi, during the test (joondalup) would the assessor tell you specifically which side to park on for forward/reverse or would you have the freedom to choose? thank you
You would most likely have the freedom to choose. Sometimes they tell you to park next to another car. Sometimes the parked cars are only on one side.
Hey, I love your videos, they have helped me a TON! I just have two quick questions...
The first one is the situation with the Blue & Purple car @ 1:20, both cars should be able to proceed at the same time and not hit each other if they just turn properly. Though from first-hand experience (I made the turn but the person turning right at the other sign stopped when they saw I was also turning) it seems people avoid turning right at the same time as each other... so are they thinking whoever got to their stop sign first, goes first..? Should I always just proceed in the said situation?
The second one is about the Left something Behind exercise, I have attempted it and watched the videos many times, but it really seems difficult to stay on the correct side of the road when reversing out of the driveway. I drive a big car and even if I instantly lock the steering I end up going onto the other side of the road a bit, I lost a point for "understeering" when it was not possible for me to steer more than I did. So I guess I need to be going deeper into the driveway? but then I have a problem with the "private property mailbox line" is the front wheels that have to be behind the mailbox or the nose of the car? It seems impossible to correctly complete the manoeuvre in a big car with the houses that have their mailbox relatively close to the road. (also do you know any street names they commonly do this exercise on?)
Thanks for any replies! I really appreciate it.
1) yes, you can both go at the same time if you're both doing right hand turns. You turn early so that you don't pass through the midpoint of the intersection. That way you miss each other. It's not based on who got there first. It's who has right of way in the specific instant that you doing your evaluating.
2) when going forwards into a driveway on the right, you enter the driveway slightly left of centre AND THEN POINT THE CAR SLIGHTLY TO THE RIGHT before stopping. Don't go past the letterbox (if it's correctly positioned at the boundary of the council verge and the resident's private property). Watch our TH-cam video "West Perth Driving Test - Left Something Behind". It covers your question.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
LSB commonly on Carlton Turn Currambine, Nottinghill St Joondalup (using laneways), Regents Park Rd Joondalup (using sidestreets). It's all covered in our videos. Take the time to watch them all - in their entirety.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 So incredibly helpful, thanks so much :)
One question, IF there is BOTH a Green Light and a Green Filter Right Arrow, which one to follow? can I follow both or anyone at a time? (for green light only, I must stay in the middle of the road for a right turn to judge oncoming traffic, for a green filter right arrow I don't have to)
Firstly you need to check your local rules. But for Western Australia, if it's a green light but without the arrow the first car in line moves out beyond the line and completes the turn only when it's safe because the oncoming traffic also has a green light. The second car must wait behind the line if the first car can't complete its turn straight away. Once the first car is definitely clearing the intersection, the second car can carefully enter if it's still a green light. Obviously if it's a green light but with a red right turn arrow, the the right turning vehicles must remain behind the line until the arrow either drops or turns green.
If there is a green right turn arrow, all right turning cars can proceed safely without yielding to oncoming traffic - because the oncoming traffic will be stopped by a red light.
Thanks for the question. Hopefully I answered it adequately.
We have two other videos to help you with right turns at traffic lights - but remember, they are based on Western Australian rules.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 thank u very much for the detailed answer, I didn't know there's also "a green light but with a red right turn arrow". I just wonder how the oncoming traffic from both left or right of the car waiting in the middle to turn right will pass, when its stuck in a red light right arrow in the middle of road.
If you were presented with a green light and red right arrow, then you wouldn't proceed into the middle if you intended to turn right. You would wait behind the line and not enter the intersection - but you would keep your eyes on the lights. Eventually the red arrow might either drop or turn green (or the solitary circular green light might go amber and then red). There would never be a scenario where you were lured into the middle by a solitary green light and then a red arrow came on. It just wouldn't happen - because drivers would get stranded in the middle as you described. Have faith in the traffic light programming and you'll be OK. Again, remember to consult your local rules in case they differ to Western Australia. Thanks for the comment.
@@ilukadrivingschool8696 thank u very much, so kind of you
Hi at 12.42 does the blue car have to wait for the red car to go before moving so it can see properly?
The basic premise is that if you can't see, you don't go. But make sure that you move up as close as possible to the stop line (without stopping over it). That way you will maximise you line of sight to your right and maybe you can see far enough to make a safe decision on whether to go or exit. If your line of sight is insufficient, wait until you can see properly. Many learner drivers stop too far short of stop and give way lines. Thanks for watching.
Hi, I am just wondering to know, who has the right of the way when pedestrians crossing the side road, and the vehicle from left or right turing into the side road where the pedestrian crossing, should turning vehicle give way to the pedestrian ( straight crossing the side road) first?
Western Australian interpretation: Give Way to pedestrians who are trying to cross the road that you are turning into at an intersection (unless it's a roundabout or the pedestrian is facing a Red walk signal.) Don't wave the pedestrian onto the road. It must be the pedestrian's own decision to step onto the road. Make eye contact with the pedestrian and wait for them to respond. If they show no intention of stepping on the road, you can decide to proceed with caution. But if this occurs in your driving test you must vocalise your thoughts so the assessor can assess your decision making process and ensure that you know what you're doing. Based on WA jurisdiction. Check the rules for your own jurisdiction if outside of Western Australia. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Understand that, thank you 🙂🙂
Does this give way rule apply when before entering roundabout? Some roundabout at Joondalup has pedestrian footpath before we enter the roundabout ,do we give way to them cross first then proceed toward our give way line?
If it is a painted zebra crossing, then yes. But I can't think of any roundabouts like that in Joondalup. There are plenty of decorative brick paved areas around roundabouts where pedestrians can cross (after giving away to traffic).
The roundabout 1. Boas Avenue & Lakeside Drive, 2. Shenton Avenue & Davidson Avenue, at the medium concrete island, there's some part of it which is flat( similiar with the one that in front of Dome cafe), kinda desigen to indicate pedestrian walk through or waiting at the middle, and always some pedestrian waiting there, bit confuse whether we need to give way or not everytime before entering the roundabout
@@AustineAkTinggie-qi4yn yes, I know those roundabouts. There are gaps on the kerbs as you say but no white painted zebra stripes. Roundabouts are all about keeping vehicle traffic moving. Pedestrians are meant to give way - but they often don't realise it, so always proceed with caution but don't slow down so much that you lull them into thinking that you're stopping for them.
Really appreciated for the reply, moving back to Perth this recently after 15 years residing interstate, never thought of this when I was a kid here, I can only say different state is totally different systems operating.
Do Australia and UK have almost the same Highway Code/ Rules?
Many of the rules would be the same but there will always be some subtle differences. You need to learn your own rules thoroughly as part of your learning journey. There should be specific literature put out by your licensing authority and you need to study it.
with the situation where the purple cat wants to turn right and blue turn left what if the purple stopped first would
blue still have right of way
If both cars are stopped then it doesn't matter who got there first - the standard rules apply, so you can't turn to the right across the opposite car's path. If the blue car is still approaching the stop line, then it's a question of whether the blue car is far enough away that you can turn right without danger. Danger could arise because a very high percentage of cars don't fully stop at stop lines. So if the blue car is sufficiently close to the stop line that you can't be sure that you can get around safely before they get close to the line, then it's essential to wait and observe what they do. Many people have failed their driving test because they turned right while fully expecting the opposing car to obey the law and stop at the stop line. But don't assume anything. You share the roads with the best and the worst of drivers! Thanks for the question.
What if it’s not at an intersection and just on a general road, before the traffic lights or a small street in a built up area? Do we still give way to pedestrians? What if they’ve already stepped on to the road?
You need to give way to pedestrians when approaching a stop line or give way line at an intersection. Pedestrians shouldn't be randomly stepping in front of you while you are travelling straight along a street (not near a stop line or give way line) - but if they do, you must obviously do your best to avoid hitting them. If you are turning into another road at an intersection, you must give way to pedestrians who are attempting to cross the road that you're turning into. Don't ever wave them onto the road! It must be the pedestrian's own decision to step onto the road.
These rules don't apply at roundabouts - where the aim is to keep traffic flowing and vehicles have priority over pedestrians.
Pedestrians crossing a turning lane from/to an island have priority against vehicles.
NOTE: These rules apply to Western Australia. Check your own local jurisdiction if outside of WA.
If I reverse out of driveway to do 3 points turn around , I can see my car is proceeding to be contain in my side of street, but there is a car coming from opposite side direction. The street doesn’t have middle divide line.
Do I stop moving and waiting, or do I still moving slowly.
It would be safer to wait. That car might need to move across the centre of the road at the last moment to adequately clear a badly parked car or to give a cyclist sufficient room. They might also hesitate because of you reversing out as they don't know your exact path. Better to be safe than sorry and eliminate all possible causes of failing your test.
What about if there is a middle divide line , do you still wait ?
@@123binqchen you still have to weigh up the situation. It is legal to cross a solid line to get around an obstacle or to legally overtake a bike. It also depends on the width of the road. And it depends on your path out of the driveway. Remember that when you enter the driveway, you should offset your vehicle to point to the right a bit so that your path out onto the road is as close to the kerb as possible.
Last time my path out of the driveway onto the road is bit of angle from rear wheel , the assessor is not happy.
What if I fix it , like forwards and backwards extra one more time in the driveway before get to the road , will I lose any points ?
@123binqchen you are being tested on doing a 3 point turn - not a 5 point turn. It's not too difficult. Just drive into the driveway accurately, make sure the back of your car just clears the road, and stop on the driveway with the car pointing slightly to the right. That way you won't have to do a full 90 degree turn when reversing onto the road and the back of your car should stay on your half of the road. If you turn it into a 5 stage manoeuvre, you will likely lose a point for "Flow".
Hi mate,
I am from south Australia and really love it videos ☘️☘️
They are so informative and so easy to understand and the way u explain is simple fantastic 😍😍
One question. .. suppose I am on the red light ( instead of STOP sign) and the blue car is in the slip lane about to turn left .
And when its green, should I wait for the blue car to pass and then go ?
If the blue car is in a slip lane with an island, then they are physically separated from the intersection. In that case you go first because there is nobody coming straight through or turning left AT THE INTERSECTION. If there is no island and they are turning AT THE INTERSECTION in a dedicated turning lane, you must wait for them to turn left first as per the video. It's the existence of the island that turns the rule on its head. Usually at the end of the slip lane with the island there will be a Give Way line which means the car at the Give Way line needs to give way to the traffic going past the line.
who has the right of way in an UNMARKED crossroad (where all the roads are minor, maybe in the countryside)?
In jurisdictions where you drive on the left hand side if the road it's "give way to your right". Google "uncontrolled crossroads" or something similar.