The Idea of You: An Impassioned Defence
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
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To enjoy The Idea of You, all you need is some taste, and a healthy dose of shame.
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SOURCES:
Melissa R. Ames, "When Predator Becomes Prey: The Gendered Jargon of Popular Culture" Faculty Research & Creative Activity (37) (2011).
Ian Crouch, “People Who Like Celine Dion Are People Too” The New Yorker (2014).
Eugene L. Didier, “The Summer Girl” The New York Times (1901).
Jennifer Harlan, “A Brief History of Summer Reading” The New York Times (2021).
Adrian Horton, “From The Idea of You to A Family Affair: the summer of age-gap romances” The Guardian (2024).
Benjamin Lee, “The Idea of You review - Anne Hathaway lives out fanfic fantasy in solid romance” The Guardian (2024).
Robinne Lee, “Reducing The Idea of You to Fan Fiction Is Another Example of Dismissing Women’s Art” Time Magazine (2024).
Thomas Nyhus and Allyson Shap, “Summer of Snob: an Examination of the Beach Read” Substack (2024).
Janice Radway, “Reading Is Not Eating: Mass-Produced Literature and the Theoretical Methodological and Political Consequences of a Metaphor” Book Research Quarterly, vol.2 (1986).
Michelle Ruiz, “The Sleeper Hit of the Pandemic? A Three Year-Old Romance Novel Inspired by Harry Styles” Vogue (2020).
Katy Waldman, The Idea of You” and the Notion of the Hot Mom” The New Yorker (2024).
Carl Wilson, “I hate Celine! ... Or do I?” The Globe and Mail (2007).
Carl Wilson, Let’s Talk About Love: Why Other People Have Such Bad Taste, Bloomsbury Academic (2014).
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You're talking about hungarian news?
More bad than good news over here!
Great video! Very informative!
Loved the video @BroeyDeschanel! Interested in your take on a film like 2022's Good Luck to You, Leo Grande? The trailers frame it as somewhat of a rom-com but to me it felt more like a stage play. Does it flying under the zeitgeist radar shield it from the same backlash as The Idea of You?
Excellent video. Love this movie. And thanks for mentioning How Stella Got Her Groove Back. Forgot about that movie and their similarities to The Idea Of You.
It says so much about our society that we picked on Celine Dion and not the gross adult man that started grooming her at the age of 12.
This. There's entire comments sections calling their love story a fairy tale, when he was an actual predator.
👍🏾🎯🧠💯👏🏾
I thought that was Alanis, did that happen to all Canadian female singers? Was it something about geography that made them particularly vulnerable?
THIS!!!!!!
When I said this to my french teacher in the 8th grade she shamed me. Like I was dirty for thinking it was gross for the old man to take her as a teenager. Celine had just had huge success with my heart will go on.
Before watching the film, I´d bought into all the Letterboxd vitriol. Dismissed it as trash and refused to watch it. Then I read an article about the 25 best films of the year and was surprised to find it there. They were very complimentary of Anne's performance, and I remembered that I'd never seen her being bad in anything, so I gave it a chance. I was so surprised at how emotionally intelligent, funny, sexy, and sometimes heartbreaking it is. They were right, Anne IS fabulous in it. Nicholas is a fantastic scene partner for her. Great soundtrack (The opening chords of "Les Fleurs" gave me goosebumps.) The scene where she says "I am ashamed" to him is stunning. She doesn't shy away from Soléne's vulnerable side. Her shame, her self-consciousness around his younger friends. All the pain she feels after her divorce. Soléne is a real woman because Anne did not look down on the material. She saw its potential and gave us a great performance in a fun, sunny, smart summer movie.
Ok brother you’ve convinced me to watch it!!!
The worst of lettreboxd shines through once again!
@@kostajovanovic3711any more movie suggestions on this?
What really sold it for me was the chemistry they had. Without it, it would have been a bit of a dud. Really solid performances from the leads
for female artists, there's this colloquial assumption that their work is personal first, and art second, an assumption we never make for a male artist. and because of that, art made by and for women has to show its artistic value the way male critics think of artistic value. i think a lot about how artists like taylor swift have capitalized on this assumption-her fans look to her personal life to connect the dots between her music, and how artists like mitski have had to be outspoken about. theres no assumption, for mitski, that she's attempting to create a piece of art, with value and merit for art's sake. and then im faced with what poptimism as a movement has really gifted us with-are we more victims of sexism than ever because of it?? how can women resist the assumption that their realm is emotional and the male realm is logical? i dont know anymore
Do you know Rachel Cusk’s writing? The first chapter alone of her latest book, Parade, is really interesting on the subject of being a woman, and being an artist while being a woman. Others have written about the same thing, but Cusk’s style is particularly memorable.
@@lorcan545i've been meaning to check out their writing for awhile!! thank you for the recommendation
I think we’re also in a moment where critics value authenticity over any other artistic merit and that’s been limiting for women especially.
The difference in opportunity and reception between someone like Greta Gerwig or Phoebe Waller Bridge who does fit that “personal” mold and a Rose Glass or Jennifer Kent is so huge.
Hello, I found what you wrote quite interesting, but there are a few things that I don't understand and if possible I was hoping you could elaborate a bit on them. It could be because of your usage of punctuation, or some misunderstanding on my part, but I didn't really get what you were trying to say when you wrote "how artists like mitski have had to be outspoken about. theres no assumption, for mitski, that she's attempting to create a piece of art, with value and merit for art's sake".
Also, why do you feel that poptism as a movement has made us more victims to sexism?
Perhaps it is this type of self-absorbed solipism which is the problem...just sayin
imagine you have a six octave vocal range and all anyone can say about you is that they don’t like your accent
yeah, the fact he wrote a whole book about it is blowing my mind. like get a life dude
fckn RIGHT?? the audacity tho. i'm just kinda hearing about this rep celine seemed to have, which is bananatown cuz she's one of the best voices in contemporary history. at least that was my understanding of her growing up, as a millennial.
I've heard plenty of people say that, though she's got a great voice, her songs aren't very interesting. It's like they exist only to show off her voice, and that makes the instrumental aspects of them less appealing than for other artists who maybe don't have as great a vocal range.
No person has a six octave range, that is nearly the whole keyboard of a piano, is literally impossible, especially for a woman.
@@maggiemcfly5267Mike patton
What I liked about the Idea of You: he respects her boundaries at every moment. It's so different from what a lot of movies show most of the time ... Like women don't know what they want, only a man can make their life complete, when a woman says no jt actually means try harder and so on.
He made his intentions and interest clear but she was the one who had a say about the pace and yes or no.
Fantastic point. It always makes me uncomfortable in romances when a love interest constantly pushes boundaries or shows up wherever the lead is and we are meant to think it's charming or romantic. It is refreshing to see this movie and a few other books I've read flip the script on this romance trope.
idk how you can defend to idea of you when it’s a about a 40 year old going after a 20 year old
Okay people may not like Celine Dion’s music but it’s wild to say that she can’t sing well. Any vocalist will tell you that woman has pipes, not everyone can sing like that
She's an amazing singer!
ngl i did not know people hated celine dion until this moment, i sing its all coming back to me now with my whole fat heart
We used to play it in the car when I was a kid, the dramatic "drums" representing the "slamming of rhe door" get me every time (in a good way)
Céline Dion's strength is her sincerity. In all of her performances she gives it her all diva best and refuses to feel shame for what she does. This is then passed on to the viewer and spectator and allows them to let go as well and just live in the moment. We like to think we are above feeling certain things but we are not and she knows this and this movie does as well.
When I watched this movie I was actively looking for fun trash, and was absolutely surprised to find a somewhat realistic approach to this premise, that actually made me think a lot. I was honestly kinda puzzled by all the bad reviews on Letterboxd, since it's quite competent. A friend straight up asked me after seeing me logging it, "Ugh why did you watch such trash?" And they hadn't even watched it. I was like... it's fun? They were skeptical.
Some people were straight up saying it was a legit fanfiction-turned-movie, as if it was a fact, and only through this video I found it wasn't even true. Like you said, people absolutely couldn't get past the premise and meet the movie halfway. Not to mention people wondering why Anne Hathaway would "do a movie like this"... and I was like, because it's a cool escapist romcom that actually treats a 40 year old as a sexy, intelligent, desirable being without it being a total comedy? How many roles like this are coming an actress' way?
Yeah, I was surprised by the letterboxd reviews as well. I think people went into it wanting to hate it, but I found it to be great and charming. I had always though of letterboxd users as seeing the secret genius in otherwise silly movies, but it's just becoming more and more like reddit
this reminds me when a friend (im not friends with him anymore) played a game for TEN minutes and jumped straight into hating it. i actually played it and almost 10 years later its still my fav game. people just refuse to make their own opinions
People just regurgitate what they hear, so it's gone around online that it started out on Wattpad or whatever when all it would take is one google search to find out it didn't. The audacity of a woman to write this. Didn't she get the memo that the only age gaps allowed are between an older man and younger woman?
I feel kinda good for giving it a 3.5 rating. At the worst I did think that the second half was a little too dramatic and lengthy, but the ending still made up for it and even then I respected what they were going for. I was surprised at the negative audience reactions but I just guessed that it wasn't their thing, or maybe they just disliked it on the grounds of it being inherently bad to make a film that felt like fanfiction of reality. To go any further than that would take more justification and I've not seen it.
The story of your mother taking you to the twilight premiere is so touching. Growing up as a girl is coming to understand your mother in retrospect. Such a bittersweet feeling
I do think it's interesting that Robinne Lee initially wrote The Idea of You to be about an older black woman, but publishers didn't go for it since they considered an interracial relationship and age gap too controversial or simply not profitable (to my understanding). I fear with shifting depictions of older hot rich white women's sexuality in media, we'll again leave behind and/or invisibilize queer, fat, disabled, and women of color. I'm really excited to watch How Stella Got Her Groove Back and The Idea of You with all this in mind and maybe a good dose of Audre Lorde's essay "Uses of the Erotic." Cheers!
oh wow that's good to know and i was already thinking of it since i found out it's a book and who wrote it from this video but this fact makes me even more inclined to read her book as well so thanks for sharing.
my favorite gag was Hathaway getting jumpscared by the tabloid cover.
the reactions to this confirm the biases the film tackles, at least somewhat.
I loved this essay!
This reminded me a little of an Indian movie called English Vinglish where one side plot of the film is that the 40-something indian woman lead begins to have feelings for another man (no age gap though). their relationship goes nowhere but you see that this woman, in cultivating a friendship with this man outside her family circle, is learning to see herself beyond the role of her being a mother. Funnily, many of my female friends really wanted her to run away with the other man (it helped that he was French dude and her husband was neglectful to her).
One of my favourite topics to explore and discuss is motherhood. Society takes so much from women when it boxes them into motherhood. I’ve been excited to see media finally addressing the topic of “what if mothers are people?” (Even if sometimes it’s really bad, like in A Family Affair)
I love your commitment to actually analysing media that are so rarely taken seriously - your videos are so often very insightful because of it.
It was a cute movie, and the romance felt genuine. In an era that increasingly finds even small age gaps cringe, it was a breath of fresh air.
The thing I've appreciated most about Celine Dion is that she's "tacky"- literally I agree with 90% of the critics of her musical style- and yet she doesn't care. She's delightfully uncool, uninterested in being the hot new thing. She's got her voice and a corny song, and you're going to get that without a thought of "cringe" or schmaltz. It's its own kind of charisma
Imagine being such a hater that you write an entire ass book about how much you hate someone whose biggest crime against you was making music you didn't like.
I promise that isn’t what the book is about!!! It’s about him reckoning with WHY he was such a hater, why he has such a problem with her and how that was more about him and his relationship with being someone of “taste.” It’s been a few years since I read it but seriously it’s a fantastically good book. It’s about aesthetic taste in general and Dion is one case study that he uses. I remember being fonder of her after reading it than before.
@@madgesmic Oh that's actually good to know!
You were subconciously hating too
this movie just scratches a certain itch for me. especially the color grading, it’s so easy on the eyes 😌
I actually enjoyed this movie. It's a cheesy romantic drama, and it doesn't try to be anything more than that. However, not even two months after its release, Netflix came out with their own version, "A Family Affair", which also pairs up an Older Single Mother with a Younger Famous Man.
Omfgggggg
lol A Family Affair is like the shitty redbox knockoff of Anyone But You, it's embarrassing
I’m a 44 yr old single mom of a 👧🏾 headed to nyu, and I’m I loved this movie! It made me feel emotional. I’m looking forward to finding myself again outside of being a mom. Dating a younger man may well be a part of that journey 🙃🙂
You're understanding of art is not reflected in your taste, but your ability to appreciate the virtues of content you don't like.
I found this film so wholesome and kind to the leads. The leads treat each other with love and respect, and instead of like more recent romance movies where they have a deeply toxic infatuation with no substance, the main issue for this romance is the circumstances. She calls it off to protect her daughter, and he understands and respects that choice and asks that they check back in after the daughter’s school mates will no longer be an issue. Soléne even says not to wait for her because she knows it’s not fair. The backlash has been so upsetting to because it sounds like people watch this determined to hate it because of the plot. I keep seeing people say they don’t like it because of total misinformation like the fact that it’s a Harry styles fan fiction when it isn’t. I’m shocked by how many people made their opinion totally based off people who didn’t even watch it. How boring for people to not have any understanding of nuance in that she didn’t explicitly seek out a younger man-she happened to stumble onto a sweet connection with a man who yes is younger but in his mid 20s and has a lot of financial and social power. It feels balanced. The way people talk about the movie is like they talk about the After series, which is horrifically unhealthy and awfully written on screen. I wish folks went into films with an open mind instead of just mimicking some misinformed cynic’s opinion online. I appreciate you calling out the super weird reaction to this movie.
Celine had me in tears with her performance at the Olympics opening ceremony recently, and I don't even speak French!
I feel there is this tendency among critics, particularly male critics (but also those who only learn how to see through the lens of male critics), to judge art on fixed, objective metrics of technical skill (though Celine has plenty of this, so idk) and to disregard emotion entirely. When the whole point of art is expression! I feel that's why there is such a lack in earnest romance in mainstream Hollywood these days - it's considered too sappy to be "well-written". The fact is true love is very often sappy, and showing that in a movie is as real of an expression as any gritty story. In fact I'd argue it's infinitely more true than solely quippy back-and-forth being sold to us as romantic chemistry.
And it's funny that people keep using fanfic as a derogatory descriptor. I used to write fic a few years ago, and despite having standard insecurity like every other writer, I know at least some of my work was better than certain published novels. And there were fics I read that I would rank above some books I've read. If the extent of your fanfic reading is self-insert fic written by teenagers on Wattpad writing for the first time about romantic experiences they themselves have not had yet, of course you'll think fanfic is bad. But just one fic by a 20/30-something fanfic writer with a full-time job could easily change some minds.
I disagree about the love depictions in media and Hollywood. Art and culture is oversaturated and jaded with the shallow Hollywood depictions of love and is exploring in my opinion much more interesting grey areas that more often reflect real life now. The same thing has happened in classical music, where post WW2 composers felt they could no longer sincerely write 'beautiful' music in such an ugly world - I say beautiful in quotes because this is such a subjective thing, but in the most generic sense that Hollywood would align with - and thus expressionism & serialism were birthed, still beautiful in a radically different way. In film terms for instance I thought past lives show much more intriguing nuances into the psychology of love, idealism and relationships, and lead way to better written material for the exact reason the topics are complex, which real love between real people actually always is btw, unlike some rather one dimensional Celine Dione lyrics. Also I get very frustrated with the trope that art is about expressing emotion. For an artist that should be an emergent result of every other factor of their craft aligning, and as soon as it becomes the utmost priority you have lost all perspective and nuance within the work. There are millions of variations on any one emotion we feel and thinking about art in these binaries is one sure way to exclude ourselves collectively of that multiplicity.
How Stella Got Her Groove Back is SOOOO GOOD!
1. Never been a Celine fan. Was definitely snooty about it in the 90s-00s. Just watched her Olympic performance and cried like a baby. Obviously thinking of her coming back from her scary recent health struggles was a factor, but I also think I was actually open to her unabashed sentimentality for the first time and just let it resonate. Once she gets past your world weary brain to your heart strings, all bets are off.
2. Kinda wanna defend Mrs. Robinson here if that’s even the right word. Watched the graduate again recently for the first time as a middle-aged adult and found myself persistently annoyed with Benjamin on her behalf and totally enthralled with Anne Bancroft’s performance. Mrs. Robinson is now basically the protagonist in my head canon.
3. Not a paleontologist, but that $45 million stegosaurus auction really ticks me off, too.
4. This channel absolutely rocks! Never know what to expect but always learn something. Much thanks to the whole team.
Love u girl, love the essays, love the podcast, I replay it over and over
Same!
This was brilliant, and adds to my notions that shame is driving so much of the issues prevalent today. From toxic masculinity, to religion to women's rights. Shame is being weaponized in all of these, and so much more. Thank you for adding such valuable discourse.
my favourite takeaway from this is the fact that in many facets of life as it is today, the 'emotions-first' things are often the ones considered with the most disregard. thank you for sharing!
thank you for making this!!! this has become a fave comfort film of mine and it deserves genuine love
It takes a lot of character strength to accept the feeling of shame and to face it. Most people run from their shame, whether it's deserved or undeserved.
I didn’t even know that people did not like Céline Dion that much. In black culture she’s considered part of the vocal Trinity of the 90s - Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, and her. I can absolutely tell you that she went platinum in our house.
I was really surprised about how much I enjoyed this movie. So I watched it again a few days later, and enjoyed it even more. But never said anything about it to anyone, thinking they would laugh at me. Your metaphor with Céline Dion is perfect, thank you.
This reminds me of Emily Henry discourse. I wasn't super online when Beach Read came out, but I remember people in my circle expressing interest in it and then disappointment later. I enjoyed it, thought the cult subplot felt like it came out of left field, but ultimately it left me wanting to read more from her. When I read "The People We Meet On Vacation," I realized why so many people had a hard time enjoying her work, which I became a fan of. It was because she was marketed as a romance. Her blurbs feed into that assumption and so does the artwork on the cover, but her stories aren't about romance. They're about redefining one's sense of self after adulthood and they go to some pretty personal, even dark places. There's a lot of heavy themes for people who are just wanting something fun to engage with. This isn't a knock on those people or those books. I myself am a big fan of cozy mysteries and historical romance. Contemporary romance just isn't my usual cup of tea, just like Emily Henry might not be to other's tastes. If the book had been written by a man or if Henry had chosen a pseudonym that could pass as male or not "seem" like a woman, I wonder if her books would have gotten the same packaging and marketing. Likewise, how many films have we seen with older men going on a self-discovery journey while courting or being courted by a younger woman? SO. MANY. And so many of them are considered "classics" despite obviously being "dad porn." (I'm looking at you, Woody Allen.) Or think about Mrs. Robinson and how "The Graduate" is lauded. If the man had been the central figure of this story, I don't think anyone would question its "worthiness" to be as good as it is.
It'll be interesting to see if the "Mafia Romance" genre comes to the big screen in a major way in the next five years...
Isn't 365 days one of those? I really hope it doesn't become more of a thing, most of it is just romanticized abuse
@@user-ny1wo1vp9r they tried and i really hope we all learned a valuable lesson from those movies
RE: Katy Waldman's critique of the film - as someone who is married to a middle age woman with a child, Waldman is pointing out another aspect of womanhood that generates a sense of guilt and shame. I have watched my wife adapt to motherhood by sacrificing the appearance of well being (primping in front of the mirror) for her actual wellbeing (more sleep, more wine, more time with the child and with me). Being told she could have both implies she lacks the motivation to do both and the existence of a character flaw.
If you decide to become a mother, you will understand one day where she is coming from. This is a great video, keep up the good work!
11:15 omg her scream there was so good. Scares me every time 😂
Being a mom to an older child, I can confirm that we do indeed primp in front of the mirror. Parenthood isn’t all spilled cheerios & crayons on the wall lol kids grow up & develop lives of their own. Are we not allowed to look nice in our free time? It’s not like we died.
I watched it a month ago and really liked it. It met my expectations. It was a fun romp with emotional weight to it. I even liked the end. The performances were great, the cinematography was good. Right now, I feel vindicated. Also the conversation about art was great.
Anne Hathaway’s charm made what I think would have been a pretty average rom com a pretty decent one.
this movie is, 100% what i feel like as a 22 year old reading ouran highschool host club fanfic in the beach. the fuzzy and truest escapism i can access as a woman living in a world that hates any way i could enjoy (really enjoy) life.
Ooph - this dropping on my 43d birthday on my 10th year of singleness sure was an experience.
I yearn for the day when I might go to the watering areas in the summer in airy clothes.
i think we have to let go of "good" and "bad" and realized everybody's taste is valid
No.
@@suasoria i did not mean it in a way that you can't think that something is of bad taste but i'd say you just can't say that liking something like beach reads make you a person with bad taste. Good and bad taste are subjective not objective just like beauty. I just don't think we should say that liking literature means a person has good taste and liking fanfiction means a person has bad taste (if we stick to this subject of books) but i'd like to know why you disagree
@@iinkdy I think "validity" discourse has itself become hollow and potentially harmful to critical thinking. Everyone obviously can like whatever they like, and this whole notion of having to "defend" it when someone criticizes (or even attacks it) has been heading in a weird direction, in which fans of the absolutely hegemonic and mainstream cultural products (think, Marvel movies, for example) constantly play the "victim" of some imaginary attack on their taste by "elite critics", while making the lives of those critics hell. All the while, their favorite cultural product has nearly destroyed American cinema. The same story is going on in mainstream music. People can always like what they like, but criticism and ascribing merit to taste is not a real attack and people get way too defensive about it, which will always inevitably lead to trying to somehow force "validity" into the discourse. In other words, "good" and "bad" taste will never actually get eliminated, rather, people who like a thing that has been deemed "in bad taste", are just going to try all they can to force everyone into saying the thing is actually "in good taste".
no way. too many people like CP for you to say that. and some people like movies where people and animals are killed. not everyone's taste is valid. some people are evil.
I watched it with my husband yesterday because we wanted something silly and was surprised by how emotional I got. As a young mom myself, everything Solen was going through resonated with me. Feeling wanted and desired is so important and women are vilified for this simple need.
This reminds me of a video by Jane Mulcahy where she investigates whether Red white and royal blue is based on a fan fiction that the writer was determined (thanks to some genuinely impressive detective work) to have written previously. It’s a really widespread rumor but [spoiler alert] the book is not at all derived from the writer’s previous work, all they have in common are they’re M/M and involve famous people. Mulcahy reads both in full and they’re just different stories entirely-Mcquiston doesn’t repurpose characters OR plot points OR even verbiage beyond what is clearly just a trademark of her writing style.
Anyway I thought this was interesting because basically all that was discovered was that this now popular writer had experimented with writing in the past via fan fiction and had posted some of these experiments where they were well-received. Like…duh!! Can you imagine anything less scandalous than a popular writer having participated in writing exercises in the past?? There is such a stigma on fan fiction though that not only did people insisted that this new work must be a direct derivation of the writer’s past FF. And given the cheapening of Robinne Lee’s work as you describe, it seems like Mcquiston was right to try to bury any association they had to the fan fic world.
Idk I only recently watched Mulcahy’s video so it was on my mind!
Having trouble editing on my phone rn but first paragraph it should say their* writing style, not hers
I watched the Idea of You without knowing any of the backlash or even about it being based on a book. I felt the same intense emotions the characters had and cried with them when they cried. This is an amazing analysis of it! Thank you
To be fair, The Idea of You is def. better than the likes of Fifty Shades and After, and heck, it's even better than its own book (from what I've seen). Hayes was aged up some, Solene is far less creepy about/selfish in the relationship, and Anne and Nicholas have solid chemistry. Though I do wish they'd left out Hayes' "If the roles were reversed, it'd be okay!" insistence. Just...no.
Gotta thank Maia for making this essay because without it, my wife and I wouldn't have watched this movie and loved it so much. It's genuinely one of my favourite romance movies in decades!
solène’s wardrobe was enough for me to give this film a chance
This video is so well done. I went into this movie thinking I would hate it and came away with a new understanding of love and loneliness. One of my favourite things is when authors explain love as not being enough to keep people together. There are many things that go into a relationship and I adore when it's examined. This movie was weirdly important to me for that reason. It isn't high brow artistic cinema, but it is good storytelling.
YESSSSSSS WE’RE UP
Never understood the age obsession, even before I hit the 20s. They talk like someone who's 30 must've stormed the beaches of Normandy. -.-
Another Broey Deschanel banger ✨💕
Excellent video essay with impeccable timing as usual
The irony of a film about women being criticised for their sexuality being criticised for women's sexuality and their enjoyment of this film is unending.
I don’t care what anyone says, I genuinely had a great time watching THE IDEA OF YOU. Truly. Anne Hathaway (as always) was soooo charming and charismatic. The chemistry and acting were great. Nothing to complain about. Sometimes it feels really good to just sit down and allow myself to ENJOY a nice little movie. This new generation is just so unnecessarily critical and loves to over-analyze everything. You open TH-cam and all you see are ridiculous video essays and commentary on “I read/watched this and now I’ll tell you why it sucks and you shouldn’t touch it”. It’s so tiring now. People are obsessed with making entire dissertations (by text or video) telling other people why something harmless and enjoyable actually SUCKS. It’s childish. It’s like these people think that DISLIKING something that looks very much easy to like shows that they’re deeper and more intellectual. And that immediately LIKING something makes you shallow and stupid. Again, very childish and immature level of thinking.
I watched the movie fully expecting a self-insert boy band wet dream fanfic put on screen. And while there were obvious tropes that I have read in fics many times before, I was pleasantly surprised to watch a story about sexism, double standards, shame, and inner turmoil. It’s really more about the lead’s personal journey than the actual relationship. While the pacing is super fast and the characterization of some characters is cartoonish, it overall impressed me.
i avoid using the term "cringe" because to me it's saying 'i'm feeling shame FOR you', which is a really shitty thing. like, no thanks, i can feels shame for myself.
oh my god exactly!!!
I really liked the conclusion in this video saying that we have to appreciate sentimental art on its own terms and not in trying to make it into something it's not. It's something I've noticed especially in pop music criticism, that a lot of critics want to make a fun pop song more than a fun pop song in a way that inadvertently is rather insulting to the genre of pop itself and also betrays a lot of ego on the part of the critic (saying that if you enjoy something, it has to be more than just something immediately enjoyable because your taste is just that good).
Beautiful Maia! I loved the story about your reflections on your mom taking you to a movie premier!
Usual Broey W; very nostalgic very Stella got her groove back
This movie made me realize that the age gap "romance" barely existed in Hollywood films, while the contrary is almost a norm. I just like their attraction felt realistic & not some sort of fetish.
I always come to this channel for the scholarship, the cogent arguments, and the willingness to interrogate your own predilections and prejudices to explore ideas in their social, cultural, and political context. While I always look forward to engaging with this medium, I am also hanging out for a book that I'm hoping you have in progress.
I loved this video so much, thank you!!
Loved this essay. Went in so many directions I didn't expect.
This really hit the nail on the head for me when it comes to how I feel about this film, while it’s not my favourite I can appreciate what it’s doing.
I am a 67 year old gay man who watched this movie mainly for Nicolas Galitzine which I dont know if you mentioned his name in the video or not. He was in Red, White and Royal Blue and Mary and George. He played a gay character in both and another one before that. He waited until the Idea of You to question his own right to continue to play gay characters as a straight man. The movie was fine. The story and the acting raised it above the level of romance movie. I am sure the rest of comment section will be aghast at the age difference. I am sure they will label as cringe, the most overused word of 2023. Good video.
I will take all of this material over the flaming garbage fire that is Colleen Hoover. I didn’t even get the impression that TIoY was a “romcom,” the way 2000s romcoms were; it felt very much like Jane Austen where it’s a romance but with notable moments of mirth. I’m also glad that this movie was more self aware about power dynamics because I was always uncomfortable about “How Stella Got Her Groove Back,” knowing how much sexual tourism exists for women from the developed world on the islands. It’s even worse when you consider the fact this was semi-autobiographical: she married him, wrote the book/got the movie made, had him with her doing all the press for it, only for them to get divorced when he came out as gay. From the very beginning, it didn’t just feel too good to be true, it felt like exploitation repackaged to give a giant boost to sex tourism.
Celine Dion is so weirdly sincere that I’m not sure how anyone can dislike her. Celine definitely has that neutered R&B sound but she’s always been someone that knew how to stay in her lane, which given the consciousness to things like cultural appropriation, has aged well for her legacy. She also held her own with the other divas in the iconic VH1 special.
the comparison to austen is a great one! not sure whether we'll ever be able to return to a time where sincerely emotional works will ever be taken seriously for vehicles of other themes, but we can only hope.
To say the quiet part loud, this is essentially a question of whether art should be emotional or intellectual. I suppose ideally it would be both, but few works scratch both itches equally. I used to be someone who valued theme above everything, but I found this approach quickly became wrote, academic, unfulfilling. Lately (especially as I became more in touch with my own emotions) I care far more how a work can make me feel, became intrinsically drawn to works with this clarity of intent. I blame our male dominated and hyper-postmodern culture for dismissing works targetted at women, just because they're unashamedly sincere. It's a tale as old as time, with "chick-flicks" and rom-coms only just starting to enter a period of reappraisal. I suppose it's also a question of what emotions these works try to capture. Rom-coms tend to create very warm, tender feelings that most men can't access. Anyway great video!!
Skip to 8:11 to see one of the better shots I've seen in any movie this year. The cinematography on this film is INSANE and it does not deserve the hate/condescension it is getting. You go Broey!
What a great video !! That quote about shame is GETTING me, always love the well-researched journey your videos take me through !!
omg your description of the other girls is exactly what I've been trying to describe the girls i went to school with 😭 thank you so much
I just want to say how good Mike Schowalter is as a director.
I'm a man who never liked rom coms for the longest time, but after watching a lot of them with my partner I started loving them. I thought 'The Idea of You' was fantastic and it was the first new rom com I was looking forward to. Great chemistry from great actors, cleverly cheesy dialogue, and a touching, nuanced story made it very fun. It's not my favorite movie but I enjoyed it a lot!
On the other end, 'Anyone But You' was garbage. Glen Powell and Sydney Sweeny had no chemistry, despite Powell having chemistry with literally everyone in the world. Cheesy dialogue with no sense of wit or pacing, and a story so formulaic it could be an algebraic equation.
'P.S. I Love You' is probably my favorite rom-com if anyone was wondering
i was so exited when you mentioned you wanted to make a video about this on the podcast and you actually did!!! great video keep up the good work
I struggled to get into The Idea of You because of the lackluster meet cute and August Moon being an over the hill boy band kinda weighing down the story. I really felt like Solène's daughter still should've been into August Moon to focus the story on public attention rather than Hayes being sad.
But I was on board with Solène letting herself be desired. I've enjoyed older women (they're childless mid 30s career oriented women but close enough) younger man Kdramas and it's interesting to push that further with a divorced mom.
A take I haven't seen much about this movie - it's genuinely funny! Compared with Anyone But You (where a lot of the jokes felt forced and relied on slapstick comedy, which makes sense because it was a Shakespeare adaptation), the Idea Of You had moments where I actually laughed out and moments where I teared up. The problem with a lot of rom-coms these days is that the humor has left them, or old rom-coms have jokes that don't age well.
lol i loved the little jab at rupi kaur 1/4 way through 😂
Just started watching your channel and this is fantastic work!
I met up with a guy much younger than me. He assaulted me, took pictures to brag to his massive following online that he got with a "hot cougar." Even though we were both grown and he was actually predatory, I will always be the person questioned for why we met up. And if had worked out I would've been seen as the predator. Sad
I have yet to watch the movie, but I loved the trailer and I'm looking forward to seeing the whole thing. The chemistry between the two leads is amazing, and Anne Hathaway really shines even in those short glimpses. All the vitriol to me is largely due to ageism and internalized misogyny. I've noticed it's mostly younger people in their 20s who are crapping on the movie, specifically young women TH-camrs who were very condescending in their reviews. All I want to say to them - another 2 decades will fly by before you know it, and you'll realize then what it's like to become nearly invisible as a woman and a human. Even if you're still beautiful, and talented, and smart, society just stops seeing value in you when you stop being able to pop put babies and have had some experience under your belt. Ironically, it's also when some of the best times begin in a woman's life, and when she comes into her true power. Men get away with dating and marrying women half their age, and yet we reserve our harshest criticism for women who do the same (although more often do it with men who are at the age of consent. We have a huge issue with forced child marriages in this country, and it ain't adult women who are raping young boys and then forcibly marrying them, at least in any statistically meaningful way).
Great analysis. Thank you for challenging my assumptions about this movie!
True freedom is rejecting critics & having fun with Celine Dion’s music
Tangentially related to the subject but I think particularly relevant to … I don’t know how to phrase this, maybe “feminine interest and shame,” I recommend the nonfiction book Everything I Need I Get From You by Kaitlyn Tiffany. The central focus is fandom, and 1D fandom in particular, but I think it’s really interesting and also important to think about how much the definition of these things girls and women love as frivolous, shallow and vain is a reflection of the social understanding that the desires, preferences and thoughts of women and girls are frivolous, shallow and vain.
to write a whole book as a hater is wild.
The film lost me in the third act but after watching your essay I'm intrigued to give it a second watch to see if I feel differently. Up until then I was pleasantly surprised at how good the film was. I definitely thought I was walking into a guilty pleasure. I'm surprised so many people are seeing this as fan fic because I didn't get that at all either. It just seemed like character inspiration, a jumping off point like the author said. It could be reminiscent of any major boy band over the years. Also I just need to say that I'm a straight up Celine stan. I'd be curious to see an analysis of her music from a queer or feminist lens because I think there's something more to her music that what these critics are giving her credit for. Maybe I was too young at the time but I definitely missed the memo that we all hated Celine I thought we all loved her lol. As always wonderful essay I always look forward to seeing your take!
I didn't know that Celine was cheesy, thanks for letting me know 😂
I was very skeptical but its now pretty high on my best movies list.
this was genuinely one of your best videos yet. so funny that i had avoided it until now, thinking i wouldn't find the subject very interesting. guess that's the whole point, huh?
The premise of The idea of you reads a lot like a mom fantasy. But when you actually watch the film, it's well realised with good characters and a surprising amount of depth, especially in the later part of the movie.
The genderswapped version of the same premise (sans the age gap) is Marry You with Jennifer Lopez, which in my opinion is the lesser of the 2 films, but it's equally interesting to compare the two to see how they differ and why one succeeds and the other one not so much.
Anyway, great video!
I think there is something to be said about the fact that a lot of the older women in these pieces fit into the conventional standard of beauty. They often aren't overweight (in fact they are usually slim), they are often white, middle class, etc. This doesn't make the movies bad, I think it shows a flaw in society that not only can we not accept women over thirty being sexual, we cannot accept women over thirty that don't fit into the conventional standards of beauty being sexual even more. ddditionally, comphet women finding out they're lesbian, and an age gap relationship being told in that way instead is omitted even more.
Haha yeah. The only time I'm ever gone "! That's how people I know dress" is some of the bullies in the Looking for Alaska miniseries. And that thing is supposed to take place at a private school in the south in 2005, while I went to a public school in the northeast in the late 2010s. Very weird.
Also Outlander is such a good show and the actors are so good!!
I just love your perspective!!
I'm here for talking about Céline Dion and this movie.
I’ve always been ride or die for Showalter because he performs everything with sincerity whether it’s irreverent comedy as part of Stella or rom-dramedy like ‘THE BIG SICK.’ And I’ve loved him since The State days - I know I’m GenX, how disgusting right?
Oddly this is the one thing he’s done I haven’t watched because I’m so done in by the rampant ageism in the culture particularly towards women. And not just because I’m too deep in K-pop fandom. 36 yo Millennials calling themselves cougars, Zoomers on TikTok obsessed with anti-aging, horny dudes on dating apps looking for hookups to “teach them something,” women my old age acting like teenagers - I feel such intense dysphoria everything around romance and relationships feels skewed
As someone who does not like the music of Celine Dion, beach reads, or rom-coms, I guess it is no surprise that The Idea of You was a miss for me. I just found it unrealistic, by-the-numbers, and definitely Wattpad-level Harry Styles fan fiction. Sorry.
It sounds like Robinne Lee has a much-more interesting book than the one she wound up writing. I would love to read a novel about a middle-aged actress in Hollywood struggling to get roles and coming to terms with what that might mean for her future.
That said, even when I disagree with your review of a movie, I always love your videos. Two good and more grounded, for lack of a better term, movies about middle-aged women trying to find some passion in their lives again are Afterglow, starring the fantastic Julie Christie and One Night in Heaven starring Leslie Ann Warren.
You are so good at making videos and arguing the ethics and politics of comercial art targeted to women. You make me forget I don’t actually like 90% of it and think it’s boring slop