i mean, she lost an eye as a sniper, gave sevika her council's seat and forgave someone who kidnapped her naked, shot her, blew her and her coworkers up and killed her mom. she forbidden the use of prison cells which violates basic human rights, the prison food are decent and warm now. she helped Vi to free Jinx. she helped Vi to free Vander. she betrayed Ambessa for Vi. i dunno what more she could do within her position. she had redemption arc. most people just don't see it or refuse to see because they already hated her in season 1 which is crazy to me because she is like 5th person on the list of who has the most kill counts.
From what she last said to Jinx she doesn't seem to forgive Jinx ( and she doesn't have to after all Jinx did to her and the fact she killed her mother) but she cares about Vi so she trusts Vi, she also decided to let go of a hatred which poisoned her life and relationship to others. People don't have to forgive everything to be good people, and to me the fact she stopped following vengeance and put back her trust in Vi is good enough of a redemption along with her next actions (sacrificing her eye and give her seat at the council to Zaun)
@@jujublue4426 I agree. She doesn't forgive, but she accepts that Jinx is no longer that person and lets go of that anger. I feel like if Jinx were still with them, they would have been pretty fierce allies, if only because of Vi's importance to the both of them. Maybe that's just my own wish, but I like it regardless.
You know thinking about it, you're 100% right she did go through a major change.... and yet I think that's a real criticism, that a lot of that isn't highlighted properly by the show Because if you think about it her big "shift" happened sometime between the end of the police state arc and Ambessa visiting Viktor's camp - and the show actually goes out of it's way to make it seem like Caitlyn is still on Ambessa's side, just to have a reveal about her planned betrayal in the midst of a LOT of chaos. Yeah she did have a big change in character, but thinking back on it it's actually hard to pinpoint where that happens because of that little twist... That entire segment changes it's tone once you realize she's already turning on Ambessa, because otherwise it looks likes she's doubling down on her authoritarian identity, and betraying Vi again even harder. There's too much going on there to even process that that betrayal never happened, with almost every single character's story arcs converging on this one place, at the same time I think that character shift should not have been used as a twist, in the middle of arguably the biggest moment in the show...
i feel like this was so obvious but SO much of the fandom didn’t catch any of this. they wanted some grandiose gestures/some hollow verbal apology from Caitlyn while actively ignoring the actual things that she did. She assisted with jinx’s release, she trusted Vi and gave her agency, she gave up her seat in the council to Zaun, she took down ambessa. I’m not too sure what else ppl wanted from her.
It would be nice if they show us Caitlyn give her place in the Council to Sevika. The last episode only show us Sevika take a plece in the goverment and nothing more
You can heard how hurt cait when she said "i know" When vi accused her - she's a smart girl so she knew ambesha doing something bad, when she meet vi again i think she had that slight of hope, to break all the things that happen that's why she betray ambesha, and also fold when vi say "cupcake" 😂🎉. If the scene would be longer we might heard she apologize but even jinx and echo event got cut. We just need more
Someone looked at the room during that Maddie jumpscare and its missing the pillars in Caitlyns room. Caitlyn never actually let Maddie into her own room but she put Vi in her own room and her own bed just to recover.
Saw a video where the person explained that Caitlyn is not a very vocal person when it comes to her feelings. When she abandoned Vi she was hurt and disappointed and couldn’t vocalize it, so she punshed her. And I think that’s true, because in a lot of moments she comforts Vi with physical touch, like in season one when Vi opens up in Caitlyn’s bedroom, when Vi asks her to not change, which led to them kissing. She can’t really say what she’s feeling, so she shows it through actions
That is really the curse of her position though. She is of high society and such people aren't allowed to express themselves for fear of being exploited as a weakness.
@@captaintf7759 I also think that being from the high-end of society, she knows words have no meaning if not backed up by action. Her mother was a politician, she knows how often things are said without other intention than swaying people's mind.
I like how both of them, Vi and Cait, are not super vocal people about their emotions. But, they do show them in different ways, mainly through actions and physical touch (that be fighting people or intimate touches) 😂
Also when her mom died, she barely expressed it, even to her father and only broke down when facing Vi. Even Mel said that the girl was hiding it admirably even though she was in much pain.
"The biggest apology one can offer, is to correct the behavior"..So true ! Great video and absolutely on point. Caitlyn had noticed she had become Jinx.2 . Grief had turned to anger and hate to a point were it wasn't "that one person" anymore, but "all of them". Resulting in a "cycle of violence" that would never stop unless some would be willing to "break the cycle". Notice how the quotes of Caitlyn and Jinx are matching. They both decided to break the cycle..
I absolutely agree on all points. Actions speak louder than words. Caitlyn was filling a void while Vi was gone. I believe as well that there was no emotional attachment to Maddie. It was always Vi since the beginning. Caitlyn knew at one point she needed to right the wrongs she created and had to carefully go about executing her plan. Vi being there was the final push to go forward. Caitlyn realizing Jinx saved her and seeing her with family was a realization point. Letting Jinx escape was the final step to showing Vi she was sorry, there is trust and there is love. Even tho I feel they both should have had more screen time together, I’m happy they got to let go and choose each other. I hope to see them again in future seasons. Their story is far from over. I’d love to see them turn into Piltovers finest and help rebuild Zaun and Piltover.
I def can see them showing up here and there in future projects. Especially if the next show focuses on Noxus and perhaps introduces Urgot… now who is super important tot the Urgot story later??? If May be years from now, but there’s def more to come
When during that scene Cait looked at Vi and touched her near her bandage I knew right away she was probably reliving the moment when she hit her at that exact same spot. The bandage itself and the current wound is secondary, what was important is that is exactly the spot when Cait hit her with the rifle and to me it was such a sweet moment. Cait apologizes with her touch and feels sorry and Vi doesn't let her linger on that thought and pulls her in to stop that train of thought, showing she has forgiven her. I think a lot of people in the community were expecting some drawn-out conversation, a verbal apology - just read what the fanfiction was like between act 2 and act 3 - but the way Arcane writers did it is a million times better. I also love that writers don't treat us as stupid idiots who need to be told everything. Someone said that means some ppl will inevitable misunderstand stuff, but whatever. Thanks for your take on this one, 100% agree.
Chris linke said they let fortiche decide what happened physically during the sex scene and didn't give them notes, so the writers didn't craft that moment themselves lmao.
Even when Cait took the throne, so to speak, she did so with extreme reluctance, because even if she hates it (which she does, it was all over her face), Cait understands that it's better than someone else, like Salo being in charge. She wants to serve, not rule, which is why she gives up her seat to Sevika. Another moment I love is her talk with Vi in the beginning of ep8. Vi berates her, correctly, for all the crap she pulled with Ambessa, and Cait responds with "I know." Taking full ownership of your mistakes is much harder than justifying it, which she does. Then she allows Vi to free Jinx, closing that loop altogether, and then her moment with Vi. No words needed, because much like her girlfriend, her actions speak louder.
I would have loved to hear a verbal apology, but my desire to hear that doesn't change the fact the Caitlyn was very obviously regretful and apologetic and did in fact express that in a way that Vi clearly understood and accepted/forgave, so why do people get so mad that she gave her apology in a way that wasn't exactly how they wanted?? Caitlyn apologizes to Vi without saying "I'm sorry" aloud, just like Jinx apologizes to Caitlyn without saying "I'm sorry" aloud, both in the same exact room only like 5 minutes of screentime apart, and yet so many people want to act like Jinx's apology was this perfect subtle writing choice and Caitlyn's was total BS not good enough Vi should've never forgiven her!!! The lengths people will go to just to misinterpret Caitlyn's character and set the bar higher for her than literally anyone else in this show is wild
wow, I never got this parallel! so true, Jinx definitely apologizes to Cait by saying she didn't know her mum was there. Now think how stupid this line would be if she actually said "I'm sorry" it would be so flat and shallow. Saying she did not know hits so much harder, it's so honest and so much in character for Jinx. Just like it's in Cait's character not to say "I'm sorry" but to act.
Jinx fanatics worshippers are the worst really. You see them all over social medias: to them there's only Jinx, now with Ekho and Isha who are all three perfect and deserves more screentime; also to them, there's no happy ending and there are so onixious to the fact that there IS a happy ending and Cait and Vi exist..really, sick of seeing those people, along with the Jaycex Viktor shippers: it's like friendship or brotherhood between two men doesn't exist, and every affectionnate gesture must be seeing as romantic. So much projection --' Vi and Cait deserves more love ♥
something i've noticed is people misunderstanding the characters. both cait and vi are characters of action, their actions always taking president over their words. cait could've given the most well thought out apology but to her and vi it still wouldve felt wrong, she needed to show she was sorry through her actions and that she did. arcane isnt a show about perfect people being good vs easy to identify villains, its a show about really well thought out characters who feel real because they act in such human ways. cait is a good character, she has faults and fucks to then make amends, just like people do in the real world. really good analysis btw great points all well made :))
yea i dont think cait had an emotional attachment to maddie, she seemed emotionless with maddies advances. When maddie goes to pull her in close in the bed scene, cait leans away from her, not towards her like she would with VI. Letting VI free jinx is a way for cait to let it go knowing that VI with a big heart would help her sister. Also in the prison cell scene with jinx, cait says " no good deeds can undo OUR crimes" she is also coming clean with not being a good person either.
No one had an emotional attachment to Maddie 🤭 Anyway, grief and sexual frustration are a bad combo...Caitlyn!😒. And knowing how Ambessa takes care of her frustration with the local cuisine, I am sure that was her advice to Caitlyn. From the get go I knew Maddie was sent after Vi (by knowing her whereabouts and name ...when that failed she went for Caitlyn. 007
Caitlyn hugged , comforted people outside Vi : her father , the drug addict , one of Silco's man left behind after the attack of the airship . She took Jayce by the arm to show her her investigation . She was enough warm with the woman in the brothel . All of that in S1 . It is clearly implied that she slept several times with Maddie but she does not even let her touch her hand , I do not know what it is but is is worse than having no emotional attachment . If she can be that warm to people she barely knows how can she be so cold to someone she works and sleep together ? Moreover ,Jinx did not only killed Caitlyn's mother, it is not only about her . Other families want and deserve justice . I do believe that actions are bigger than word but saying sorry is the strict minimum . And again what about Zaun she mistreated , Pilltover who suffers a war after the end of Ambessa / Caitlyn alliance ? Caitlyn did not initiate martial law and everyone seemed to agree with her being Commander but since it backfired did she apologize to her city ? How these people view her ? Only Vi is showed being mad during a scene againt Caitlyn about that. All of that is not really clear .
@@DianaDonineaux I don't think she generally did not allow Maddie to touch her at all. For me, this one scene was Cait already cutting Maddie because Vi came back.
okay, so I used to think that it did not make sense for Maddie to be the spy because she was so much into Caitlyn. But after thinking about it again and again I actually could imagine it being the sign that she's a spy. If you're so much into someone and this person just keeps rejecting you like Cait did, you would not just be happy and lovy with them regardless. Poor Maddie, she just had to keep faking it probably feeling super silly but that was her job lol
i also believe the scene where she says “i know” after vi’s “oinked poison into ur ear” is so important. it’s so hard to admit when you’ve been manipulated. the regret in her voice during that scene felt like somewhat of an apology to me
Unfortunately, much of the fandom who are rightfully critical of Cait's dictatorship and treatment of Vi will never be satisfied unless they see a verbal apology to Vi and long montage of her righting her wrongs in Zaun. Everything you pointed out and her giving her council seat to Sevika isn't enough. The Arcane audience should be able to give Cait the benefit of the doubt and assume she is taking even more steps to help Zaun. They act like S1 Cait, who genuinely wanted to stand up for Zaun, is gone forever. I think S1 Cait is who she truly is and will desperately try to rectify her many wrongs. Her actions in S2 Act 3 have her pointed in the right direction but she has a long way to go, but I choose to believe the best of her character because before her horrible downward turn, she did her best. Always. Also, I agree that a scene with a verbal apology wouldn't hold a candle to the actions we saw. As someone whose love language is acts of service, i couldn't care less if someone flaps their gums at me. I believe what people do, not what they say. If someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Agree 100%. Would also like to point out Cait did promise Vi in episode 3 that she wouldn't change. Despite her words she changed and that's another reason for why I like "action speaks louder than words". A "I'm sorry" or any other form of verbal apology would not have been enough for Vi to trust Cait again. But her actions of turning on Ambessa and allowing Vi to release Jinx, that was enough for her.
Personally, I also think that Vi asking Caitlyn not to change after going through something this traumatic is unfair to her. People change all the time, that's just life. I understand where Vi is coming from, but it's an extremely unrealistic expectation to set.
3:52, one of my most favorite Caitlyn expressions. Here she doesn't say anything, her eyes are enough to convey the emotions of guilt, remorse, and shame for hurting the person she loves, not believing that she deserves Vi or if Vi wants her back. And yet Vi is still in love with the person who gave her a second chance when they met in prison (Caitlyn freeing Vi from her cell). I love Caitlyn Kiramman and that will never change.
Shes an "action not words" girl, Im blown away by the dozens of people that just ignore/dont understand that. Anyway brb need to keep defending her on the internet
Caitlyn apologized with her actions, particularly to a person to whom pretty words are meaningless. Vi wasn't going to accept Caitlyn saying she was sorry, not until Caitlyn had proven it with her actions... and when Caitlyn did by making it clear she enabled Vi to decide Jinx's fate (or put another way, whether Jinx deserves a second chance), apologizing would have just been self-aggrandizement on Caitlyn's part. Sadly, a lot of people seem determined to minimize her good actions while taking any misstep that doesn't match their pixel-perfect ideal and drag her through the mud. One thing worth noting with Ambessa - Ambessa had played a masterful political gambit there by leaving Caitlyn with essentially no choice but to be her puppet. Refusing was not an option as Ambessa could easily just pick someone else, someone who might have a lot less care for collateral (such as Salo), if not just outright dispense with the pretense and take over the hard way while killing everyone who might be able to organize resistance. Caitlyn was cornered, and despite what people say about her becoming a dictator was something Ambessa had thrust onto her shoulders, as if Caitlyn wasn't shocked and paralyzed with horror at the suggestion. Cait made plenty of bad choices in S2, but so does everyone else here and in S1. Why is Caitlyn singled out for them, if not a double standard?
Misogyny lmfao. The traditionally presenting femme characters that make dubious moral choices in a no win situation are typically shit on, unfortunately
I watched a 30min analysis on Caitlyn and why/how she communicates through body language, actions, and touch more than anything else and more than anyone else on the show. I wish it were more popular because of stuff like this😔
@ Yea, if I remember correctly, it’s by Tilda Owen and it’s about why she believes it makes psychological sense for Caitlyn to fall for Vi. The physical touch isn’t the sole focus but she spends a lot of time observing it. Really makes you think about how Cait never touches Maddie. Anyway, TH-cam doesn’t like sending links, so hopefully this description is enough
I agree with you on all bases, but I’d like to add something. Lots of people have virtually no media literacy; they cannot perceive a the depth of a character’s action unless it is being spelled out for them. Cait takes an enormous step giving up the Kiramman seat to Zaun, but she does not apologise through words. People seem to think apologies only come in a written or spoken form. But that wouldn’t be like Caitc would it? Cait is not a ‘forefront’ person, not socially. She is very sheepish, shy at moments, that’s also why she is a straight shooter and doesn’t do close range combat frequently. She is also not the kind to seek redemption through an insightful exploration of her past mistakes or by giving a wordy explanation of why she acted some sort of way. She does not believe in redemption through apologies. She even says that in the jail scene with Jinx by claiming that her and Jinx can’t fix what they have done and can’t redeem themselves while facing the past. So what she does is start anew. And I think that takes enormous courage. Not saying it is the ‘correct’ way to deal with mistakes, it is one out of the many possibilities. And Cait being quite complex, and at times fragile, reflects herself perfectly in this way. She does not apologise through words, it wouldn’t be like her, she is far too stubborn and brash. But she does something so she can redeem herself, but she does it the Cait way. Using her power to do what’s correct and do right by the people of Zaun starting from now. I love her and will always defend her.
I think Caitlyn is one of the heroes in the show who has the courage to acknowledge her past mistakes. Admitting where she went wrong takes a lot of strength, especially for someone like her. It’s a shame we didn’t get to see how she arrived at the decision to let Jinx go with Vi’s help. She must have had countless internal debates, questioning what the right thing to do was in that moment. I would have loved to see more of that. Setting her pride aside couldn’t have been easy, but she did it for Vi. When I say Caitlyn and Vi balance each other, I mean it in situations like this. Caitlyn strives to do the right thing, but she was blind to the reality of the Undercity before meeting Vi. She didn’t fully understand what life was like down there. And now, losing her mother hasn’t made things any easier, either. But through Vi, Caitlyn has come to understand what it means to survive underground, and now, because of Vi, she’s also aware of what’s really happening on the other side. The moment Caitlyn realized Vi was trying to rescue her dad, she instantly decided to help. Caitlyn genuinely wants to help the Undercity, but she needs a guide, and Vi is that guide. I can’t think of a better couple than them! Thank you for the video
It's funny how people hated Cait for the things she did. But NEVER baited an eye when Jinx did the same, but WORSE. Did nobody remember how she kidnapped Cait, for no reason other than jealousy, and told Vi to KILL Cait in front of her so she can have Powder back?!?!? And yet, people called that "girl boss." So eff up and hypocrite.
I always read the apology so many people claim doesn't happen, not only as what the video says, but as every interaction they have throughout the last two Acts. It seems most people are looking for a grand, speak the words apology. The one time Caitlyn does attempt an apology like that (in telling Vi she was with Maddie during the breakup) Caitlyn doesn't want to hear it aka because she "doesn't care." The whole idea of how the apology and acceptance of it all works on both character's sides works in tandem of what happens in the last two Acts.
You explained this perfectly thank you very much! I was so tired of people misunderstanding Caitlyn and her relationship with vi this season I hope more people see this
Don’t get me wrong, Arcane is a very emotional show, but I feel like people are expecting the characters to act exactly like they would in the same situation. Just because a character reacts or behaves in a way that you personally would/wouldn’t forgive, doesn’t mean they are automatically a poorly written character. I personally grew up in an environment where words and direct communication meant a lot. Saying the word “sorry” was important to me, because it forced me to me to face my mistakes without any guesswork on what my actions really meant. That being said, Arcane’s writing clearly shows that Caitlyn’s personality doesn’t match mine, and that’s ok. She has the right to handle apologizing in whatever way she sees fit.
@rainnald0 I was just saying that it seems like people blame every character for everything that went wrong in the show, but not Jinx, couse Jinx did nothing wrong.
@@Ufos1984 Oh I see, my bad. I don't think people don't blame Jinx for what she did. Everyone in Arcane did something wrong at some point and people are aware of it, mainly about Jinx.
😊 That jail cell moment can have so many interpretation and many essay can come out of that. Not just a sex scene. From Cait picking up the keys from the ground which triggered Vi, having her turn around like S1. (fully aware what happens usually)...then waited for Vi to vent while walking towards her [...] While they started to make out Caitlyn had no problème taking her shirt off...while gently and carefully unbuttoned Vi ...touching her wounds. Vi understood exactly what that touch meant ....😊 🤔maybe I should have my own discussion channel Nah girl, Stop Me Oh ...you got this 🤗 To
love the video! currently writing my own caitlyn defense script :) the key to understanding her character this season is to put yourself in her shoes as well as pay attention to every LITTLE DETAIL in her actions, face, words etc.. they purposefully made her difficult to read to keep us on our toes 🕵️
That's literally why her character is particularly interesting because she has to be detailed down little by little to be fully understood. I love her so much. Those who hate her are just surfacial
Great Video I couldn't agree more! Some hate on her because she succumbed to hatred and longing for revenge but what they don't see is that it is very realistic and relatable in real life. These kind of feelings we tend to experience makes us forget ourselves and become a person that we actually despise in the process.. When she snapped back and realized what she has become, She proceeded to try to correct all her mistakes and try to go back the person she once was. Finding her way to back when she lost herself is what I think is the highlight of her entire arc.
Once again, your essay is very on point ! If I may add, although Caitlyn did went through some redemption arc to allow Vi to forgive her, and herself to let go of her anger towards Jinx. I don't think she went through a redemption arc regarding other aspects though, namely her behavior concerning the people of Zaun. It is more, I think, acts of compensation, but not redemption, because the thing she did (chemical weapon, civil oppression, torture) can't be as easily forgiven considering the amount of people involved and the gravity. And Caitlyn knows it : "No amount of good deed can undo our crimes" she says to Jinx in the prison. Moreover, what is mostly infuriating for her, I think, is that she's someone who believes in actions over words (as you said yourself). So to be in her position, where she wants to undo her mistakes, to correct her wrongs, but realistically can't, explains why she seems so angry in the argument with Vi. She's not angry against Vi, who's very much telling facts. She's angry with herself because she knows she's responsible for a situation she will have to work her whole life to compensate, and might never be forgiven. Hence I think, the term "redemption arc" is kinda inaccurate when it comes to Caitlyn because the things we are seeing her doing, are undertaken after her rational analysis of the reality, to compensate for a situation that she knows is (partly) of her design. Ty for spreading the good words about Arcane, I hope more of the fandom will be able to understand this piece of art thanks to people like you !
I think they will eventually calm down after hearing reason from people like her, you and many others commenting here and other analyzes that are based on facts and not gratuitous hate, you know? It's all still very new, people are noisy, superficial and change their minds with the wind. The fandom will eventually calm down and realize that they look like a bunch of kids yelling at their mom in the supermarket. After that they will say that they always supported Cait, or Vi and the others.
her arc is mostly her coming back to her senses. She kinda just stopped all the bad things she was doing, and there's some foundation hinted at for future improvement at the end but that's that. I think she dont really need redemption for the chemical weapon tho imo. Cuz it was just targeting the silco goons/chem-barons. N she didnt even kill them the bullets she used were nets (the same one used on ambessa). The chem weapon was chosen to prevent the other worse option which was full scale hextech invasion that the council originally wanted to do before she stepped in with this proposal
@@ksalfkdsg That's right, the Gray was used specifically on barons and they goons. The objective was to avoid direct confrontation so as not to have any casualties. Was it wrong? It was. But, to be very honest, if it were in real life, no one would criticize the use of chemical weapons against criminals who commit child slavery and various other serious crimes.
@@mayaraqueiroz1849 I think it was just meant to be wrong in the sense that one of the qn the show explores is: to what extent does the pursuit of justice justify violence (Cait outright asks to what extend does "the end justify the means" and "why is violence always the justification for peace"). which ties in to the whole cycle of violence thing in that victims become the abusers. but its not wrong in the sense of being an oppression on zaun like what the martial law was
Cait does not need to apologize. She risk her life to try save Vi and Vander. She let Jinx go when the Councils wants punishment for her crimes. She lets Sevika go and even Sevika tries to kill her and Vi and she lets Sevika have her mother's seat at the council. Caitlyn and group able to shut down shimmers which Ekko couldn't.
I don't think she needed to apologise, just to show to softness towards Vi's past and trauma. It would have been a nice touch given Vi was going as far as becoming an enforcer for Cait etc. But it's just not something the writers decided to focus on and that's fine, it's still excellent
I always tell people Sorry is just a word it means nothing without action. I rather someone show me they are sorry then tell me and that's ehat Caitlyn did.
Just..thank you😔❤🙏 Now I can send it to my friend who hates on Cait because "She's self centered and didn’t apologize too" I was so hurt when she said that because really that was stupid. She alsl said that Vi should find someone who really loves her, like huh!?!. I wanted to cry because that girl receive so much hate when her character needs to be sat on and detailed carefully, that's what makes her character (arc in generally) so interesting. I love her so much❤
great analysis! I struggled a lot with Cait not apologysing but after thinking about it for longer I came to the conclusion that it's not in her character to say it explicitely. It's her way to make up for her mistakes by fixing the problem it created. So, wonderfully consistent. So great the writers know their characters so well. And well... technically she did say "sorry" in this scene haha, it feels like the writers mocked us :D
Everyone analizando a character only for one or two chapter, tank you for do the right. If we analizaing a character just for one chapter so Jayce part from carismatic, genius butt unmasked guy to a cold blood murder.
I still think that if Cait had said sorry instead of actively trying to amend her mistakes, people would twist her words and say “apologizing is not enough” and that “she should have done more.” Even if it takes a rewatch to notice, I think it’s better to show what she does rather than what she says: betrays Ambessa, is almost publicly executed because of it, sacrifices her life (and eye, remember she’s sniper so her vision is vital for her) then after the war she retreats the martial law, concedes the power to the council, gives her seat to a zaun representative! and probably more we don’t get to see. Even if the finale doesn’t show it, she does become the sheriff later on when Zaun and Piltover apparently have a better relationship so she’s not the evil witch many paint her to be. You can tell the writers had little time to cover every plotline in the season overall, so they chose to let visuals do the talk rather than fill it with dialogue (which I think it’s… questionable but works anyway). Caitlyn has no redemption because she herself thinks she’s not deserving of it, even comparing herself to Jinx at one point (mind u, that’s her biggest enemy) and people have a hard time accepting that because they truly wanted her to kneel in front of Zaun crying and asking for forgiveness when in reality, that would have been useless to both the city and her.
Amazing video! Thank you for doing this ❤ I feel like we needed something like this to drown out all the ungrateful and unfair hate these two are getting. Could you make a video analyzing their interactions this season?
People that say sorry often mean that they are sorry that they got caught, not that they're sorry for their past sins. Actions count far more than words.
The big problem with this season is that it is too subtle. That's really where all the criticism is coming from: people not catching those little details. The other bigger problem was putting her in a one-sided relationship with the ginger. I hated that so much and I don't by the writers' claim that they did because Caitlyn somehow thought that her mother would be more accepting of a Piltover girl. The only way would have worked was if she was off the same standing - like if it was someone from Clan Ferros or some other high house. Instead we get this random girl that Caitlyn just ignores and at best talks at. It would have been better if she had been alone or at least if her dad was there. He's another character that they just dropped out of the show.
@@limanade145 One of the writers posted on Twitter that part of the reason that it happened at all was cause she thought that her Mum would approve of a Piltie girl. Overton herself said it.
@@iavarra its just something that the writer said. I am clearly not doing a good job of explaining it but it was basically Caitlyn trying to make up for things that she thinks her Mum would have been disappointed in.
Caitlyn is and always will be my favourite arcane character. I think people see her on a really surface level and don’t actually see what drives her as well as her actions at the end.
Maddie was just a rebound for Cait. She is pretty uncomfortable with Maddie, pulling away from her touch, even a bit disgusted at one point? The contrast between her interacting with Vi and Maddie is striking. I even felt bad for Maddie at the time because it sucks to be used like a distraction/rebound etc. Maybe an interesting detail but she doesn't say "I'm sorry" to her own father. She says "I had the shot". Overall, it had to be that way. Caitlyn speaks with her actions and not words. And if she just said "I'm sorry" then it would be hollow. I expected the events to go this way (them having to team up and Cait risking something to help) because that was the best way she could make it right.
No one even believes when they hear a person say 'I'm Sorry' these days so Caitlyn's actions speak much louder than those 2 words ever could. No doubt even if she actually said them it wouldn't have been enough for the people complaining. Actions speak louder than words and it's clear they did to Vi as well, and she accepted it. It was her choice to take Caitlyn back, to kiss Caitlyn, she had that agency, Caitlyn didn't force that on her, and before they went to far she even gave Vi knowledge of the fact she had been with someone else incase that knowledge would change what Vi wanted. Giving Vi the amount of agency she did at the end both with Jinx and in the cell was the ultimate apology.
I think in some situations it is still better to admit your mistake and apologize with words through your mouth. I was brought up in such a way that if you don't say it out loud, then you haven't drawn conclusions and you can make such a mistake again. I do it myself, and I expected this from Kate in the series. But we have what we have.
It's actually very easy to say sorry it becomes cheap. Like my intern, saying sorry everyday making the same mistakes over 6 months. I'm sick of it and don't want to hear it any longer so I really really like people like Cait that shut up and did something about it.
@phucth91 you can do both. Apologize and hand over the conclusions so as not to repeat these mistakes. Verbal apologies do not exclude subsequent actions)
@@caseygold1283 what a perfect world you expect. Then there would be no crime, no war, everybody is the same like Viktor's stripped off personality subjects. Cait has been portrayed to have the "actions speak louder than words" since s1 and it would feel so much weird seeing her yapping sorry.
@@phucth91 On a logical level, I understand Kate's actions, but not on an emotional level. perhaps the situation would have been different if the series had shown more reflection on Caitlin's part, but there wasn't enough time for that. I'm not trying to convince you, I just expressed my unpopular opinion.
About Vi, everything you said about them was correct. Vi was injured not by the blow but by the person who had hit her. It's quite different. More than the blow, the moment was when they both completely lost trust in each other: Caitlyn betrayed Vi and Vi defended someone she had "abandoned." That's why I think their intimate scene was so important, because it shows the trust they've rebuilt. It is not just about physical intimacy but also emotional, both finally laying bare all their emotions for the other to see. And in that moment of vulnerability, Caitlyn apologizes quietly, not with words, probably so as not to make it difficult for Vi, but with just her eyes it seems that she is asking permission, forgiveness and leaving the decision to break contact in Vi's hands at the same time. Letting her take the lead is also such a strong action. Caitlyn was a very interesting character this season and it’s sad to see her reduced to a one dimensional villain or poorly written mary sue because people refuse to look at the details. Her extremely wrong actions are part of her indeed, but it seems like people can only remember her by those and it shouldn’t be like that at all.
So, reading the room this may be unpopular, but I'm going to say it anyway. Two points, but before that know that I like the writing and portrayal of Cait while not being a fan of the character. I disagree with the idea of verbal apologies not being needed because actions speak for themselves. In that vain saying 'I love you' is never needed. Cannot imagine a marriage or loving partnership that can be absent those words. Second, my main issue with Cait comes from a core focus of the series, classist society. Vi touches on it. All the actions and 'sacrifices' Cait makes as an apology are completely upto her. But Jinx and Vi have to get Cait's approval to get the same agency. There is no arbiter for Cait actions, no one standing outside her cell telling her that unless they are convinced she will never see a trial. The fact that Cait can seemingly see how she abused authority yet still wield it improperly makes me question if she really understands all the wrongs she has done. Or if she does understand, does it ultimately matter to her. Technically it should not matter, in a just world both Cait and Jinx would be subject to neutral arbiters. But in arcane and in reality that is not the case. Hence anger at Cait from a number of corners.
Exactly, thanks for this. It’s not just the interpersonal aspect with Vi that matters. But the structural context of Caitlyn’s actions, how they rely on agency that the undercity characters can’t afford despite being victim to, goes essentially unconfronted in Caitlyns arc. That is more what leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but the class power dynamic doesn’t seem legible to a lot of fans
I completly agree with this. I think words are not needed if it was a minor discusion or something like that but Cait went too far in arc 1. I feel this kind of normalises that all she did was acceptable because of her grief so she should not appologise just because of that. Also you're totally righ, some characters like Vi or Mel or Jayce who are in a position of power can do whatever they want without mayor consequenses but if characters like Vi or Jinx commit a crime towards Pictover, even if it's not a big crime, we know they will be punished unless Cait or Jayce decide otherwise.
I think it's more fans just trying to view this from their point of view. That if it were them, they would have wanted a verbal apology. But Vi doesn't really tick like that. Where she came from and how she does things aren't molded by words, but by actions. Caitlyn didn't need to say the words; in order for Vi to believe she sought forgiveness she had to show it. As far as Vi was concerned, she did. In the end, it is only Vi's opinion that matters.
Thank you! I understand these days everything must be spelled out in the most obvious of ways for the audience thanks to the Marvel Effect, but the writers SHOW Cait apologizing in so many ways. They also show that Vi isn't looking for pettiness and doesn't need everything spelled out with her I don't care moment about Maddie. What so many in the fandom seem to be forgetting is that these two do actually know each other and they know grief and trauma. They aren't looking for jealous, rageful vendettas with each other because their entire lives are full of that. The entire show is based on that. The actual story and backdrop make their actions understandable and every character is supposed to be flawed, but some are more redeemable than others. Cait shows Vi in so many ways she is sorry and knows she made a mistake but Vi isn't going to be a hypocrite and pretend like she doesn't understand making mistakes in moments of grief and rage. That is why they work so well and why they end up together. They deserve their happiness but too much of the fandom is overlooking the context of the show and trying to project their issues onto the characters. The writers did a wonderful job and so did you with this analysis.
Sending love to you cause you speak with volume what I'm afraid to say in public because 80%of this fandom is screwing her character and hate her simply (for somewhat stupid reasons)..ily❤❤❤❤
All of this. But also. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. Shit happens off screen all the time. We can't assume we know all and have seen all just because we often know more than a few of the characters.
Anyone noticed that Vi's hair is dark from the beginning of episode 6 till when she shields Jinx from the blast in the end, but in episode 8 her hair is washed and cyclamen color? 🤔 Who do you think gave her a bath, dressed her up and placed her in Caitlyn's bed? 🤔 Where did Cait sleep during the time Vi was unconscious? 😏 So.. bread for thought. 😇😇
Are people really complaining about Caitlyn? Did they forget the turmoil she must be dealing with, falling in love with her mother’s murderers sister??
Yes! i feel, a lot of people cant understand the most important things with this kind of animation, all about corporal lenguaje, details of actions and expretions, must of people cant se that and they want to see or hear everything literaly.
I think people struggle to accept and understand characters personalities, Caitlyn has never been the talking kind of person...she DO things, like listening to Vi in Season 1 or trusting and releasing her from prison, helping Vi save her father or literally letting Vi freed Jinx...Also there is a lot of thing we didn´t get to see tho...
The show just did not have enough time for some really interesting conversations that needed to happen. Caitlyn and vi are not the only characters that suffer for this. One that bothers me a lot is Savika. She really deserved better. It would have been really interesting to up pack the military dictator stuff. What exactly did Caitlyn know was happening and how do the people of Piltover and Zaun feel about it. Were they reparations? Has something happened with the vents so that even if politicians in Piltover wanted to they could no longer pollute the air of Zaun without a complete over haul of the vents? Caitlyn has all of the documents now about the infrastructure. A personal apology to vi is great. Verbal or non verbal. Caitlyn is not one to voice her feelings as much as expressing them physically. What is her appology to Zaun like? I would have loved a long scenes with Caitlyn Vi Savika and Ekko where they unpack all that happened. And what to do about it in a way that feels just to the people of Zaun.
And it's funny that the real reason Cait gas the underground was BECAUSE the gangs started it first, with the ceremony. Yet, they call Cait "police brutality?" Did they NOT watch the show?!?! For me, that was the LAST starw from Cait to try to make peace, and I understand her. Edited: you play fire with fire.
To be honest, I understand everyone's point with it being non-verbal, but I feel like if the cell scene was supposed to be Caitlyn's apology, I feel like it wasnt done well. I am one of those people that don't like how their relationship turned up. Their dynamic turn more co-dependant than anything. I feel like if season 2 wasn't so rushed and they expanded more on Caitlyn's time as a dictator and shown more of her sympathetic side, then maybe I can understand the non-verbal apology she gave. It's not that I think verbal apologies are better than non-verbal apologies, it's just I feel like their relationship didn't develop well enough for it. I feel like a non-verbal apology or anything non-verbal between Jayce and Viktor is powerful, but with Vi and Caitlyn it fell flat with me. I think if they expanded more on both Vi's character and Cait's character, I would understand and maybe accept it more. But for rn, as we have arcane as it is, their relationship went downhill for me. Their non-verbalness didn't do it for me.
people need everything spelled out in words because the audience is full of 13 year olds watching the show with their eyes closed. You can tell half the people who watched only understood a vague overview of the story. A shame because Arcane is a literary masterpiece and a lot of the developments/etc. are hidden in gestures/expressions, visual symbolisms and such. I think it's esp the case for caitlyn because she started bottling up her emotions in Season 2, esp after act 1 (when vi is gone).
Also I never understood what people even want a direct, outright apology from her for? 1. Hurting Vi? - But let's be honest this was kinda on both of them. Vi preventing her from killing Jinx led Jinx to succeed in her plan of releasing the grey into all of piltover, and forced upon the martial law. I mean cmon, do people really think Vi stopped her solely because of the kid? back in S1 (during the vi/jayce team up) Vi clearly didn't mind costing some kids life for the greater good. Like man, I know if I was caitlyn - and someone stopped me from taking revenge on my mother's killer, costing the failure of the mission (which was, to capture jinx so that we dont have to go with the other harsher measure that is FULL SCALE WAR), I'd be much more pissed than her. 2. Hurting Zaun? - Since the start, she's actively prevented harsh measures by the council on Zaun! Even when her mother was blown up, even when her mother's memorial was attacked and herself almost killed. Only when Jinx literally launched a CITY WIDE TERRORIST ATTACK ON PILTOVER that she went for harsher measures. Everytime the council tried to start war with zaun SHE IS THE ONE THAT REJECTS AND PROPOSES A PLAN WITH LESS HARM. Heck, even Vi in season 1 wanted the council to go to war with zaun to kill silco! she never recaptured all the falsely imprisoned zaunites and gave them the choice to leave and not participate in the war. she improved the prison system forbidding inhumane cells and improved the quality of food prisoners eat. she released THE KILLER OF HER MOTHER for both vi, and as a sign of rejection of piltover's current justice system (she doesn't believe they have the right to be dealing out justice). she gave her council seat to sevika who represents Zaun. She was literally fighting to the death to stop ambessa/viktor from turning all of them into mindless zombies. like do people really expect her to go up on the stage and say IM SORRY to all the zaunites?😭 Like you're saying if a politician fucks up you'd prefer this over... ACTUAL ACTIONS?? I guess there could be more she could do, but fixing up the PnZ relationship was never the focus of Arcane and it would take at least another season (they've had conflict for hundreds of years). But the foundation is definitely there, mostly set by her. 3. Hurting Jinx? - the fuk?? people be saying that she should apologize for hating jinx as her mother killed their parents and this shows they watched the show with their eyes closed. Vi and Jinx's parents were killed by enforcers in retaliation in a VIOLENT REVOLUTION started by... ZAUN. Like sure... P was oppressing Z there's no denying that. But some people seem to think Cait's mother literally ordered the enforcers to suddenly invade and kill J&V's parents like what???
@@ksalfkdsgthe last line is so true like she literally didn't go there herself to kill their parents. SHE WAS NOT THE ONE THERE(She was like 16 back then, how would she know even)!!!!
The show was crafted as a literary art but the audience is full of 15yos and too "fandom"ized who def never taken a day of literature or film studies in their lives. They believe and understand things on a very surface level, and any analysis that paints their favourite character wrong is ignored or attacked.
@ksalfkdsg This is so sad because this TV show is masterfully crafted and it pains me to see people badmouthing something this good. I hope they acquire the skills and will watch this show again and recognize the show for the absolute artwork which it is.
Ok I will try to not sound condescending but people who watch Arcane and pay attention and such. Should know that Caitlyn comes from a family where people rarely apologize by using their words. They do that more in other actions. Also yes Caitlyn having her hand above Vi wound. Is showing that she realize that is where she hit her
Personally, even with what Caitlyn did to redeem herself, she should've started over slowly with Vi instead of going straight to boning in the prison room.
Well said. ‘Sorry” can ring hallow when circumstances are unchanged and grievances unresolved. In the cell Jinx and then Cait both atoned for their part in keeping Vi from pursuing her own happiness and making sure Vi hasn’t “lost everyone”
This is a good analysis but I don't think I can ever like Caitlyn again after what she did in season 2. Nothing she does will be able to make her atone for gassing the undercity and giving thousand of innocent people and children early deaths and illnesses, similar to what happened to Viktor. Even saying it was in revenge for her mother doesn't make sense because she took her moms goodwill to build something to make the undercity people breathe and immediately turned it into a weapon to strip them of the most basic human rights for her own selfishness. horrific how people can defend her on what she inflicted on the lowerclass she calls 'animals'. You can tell people who justify her actions never experienced what being oppressed is like especially against a fascist regime like Caitlyns.. Even worse is that she got a happy ending and the only thing she lost was her eye and use of a sniper. THATS NOTHING compared to what she's done. sick. fun fact: Ekkos va on twitter called Caitlyn Kukluxkiramman lmao and he's not wrong
@@Maryam-un1cr few things. One: Victor was exposed to it for a long time. It doesn’t kill when used like that. By that logic, Cait will also die in the future, because she got gassed. Two: I did not see her gassing children or innocents. Chem barons and Jinx’s hideout, which is where she was. But you seem to forget she was after only Jinx. Things like what Ambessa did put her at odds with her. She says it outright in episode 4. Three: Jinx is a mass murderer and doesn’t seem to care much for that. Yet Jinx doesn’t pay for it at all by your logic. She just leaves. Four: I don’t recall him calling her that. He just said he wouldn’t forget that but he didn’t condone it himself. If he did, then he’s wrong, because the creator and writers do not feel comfortable calling her even a dictator. Besides, when has a KKK member said “why is peace always the justification for violence?” It seems like you are projecting a bit.
@@moonmoon2479 h u h ??? please read this fully and explain how you can condone her actions. I'm curious how her actions seem forgivable to you. Caitlyn literally used her moms air filtration system to use the gray in the undercity. It is common sense that the gas will diffuse all over the undercity to less concentrated areas as well. Most of it is enclosed underground so that gas is permanently in the many many places it was used. this will stay there for a long time all over it spread to, and be breathed in even if diffused and cause long lasting effect on EVERYONE living there (which includes pregnant people and children)! This is common sense.. did you think they vacuumed up the gas after using it for such a long time lmao??? it won't just disappear. Even if the air filtration system is turned on, it wont get all of it and it wont help the people who have already breathed it in for days. Caitlyn also wore a gas mask for most of it and only took off the mas for MINUTES. By wearing the mask it shows she knows how dangerous the gas is but she doesn't care if the 'animals' in Zaun are the ones hurt. Jinx lost EVERYTHING after what she did in her mentally unstable state. I am not excusing her actions but she pays for it by most of her loved ones dying (Isha Vander etc, and losing everything else including her will to live). She seems well aware that her actions are her fault as she sings in her song that its her fault she's all alone. Jinx also tries to atone for what she's done by killing herself (obviously not the right way to do it but at least she is aware that the severity of her actions need severe consequences). Additionally, there is no way you are comparing Jinx's actions to Caitlyn's. Jinx grew up since she was like 10 with Silco where crime was ALL she knew. She was quite literally groomed into being a part of Silco's crime sindicate. She is mentally unstable. None of this excuses her actions really but it can't compare to a grown woman who is highest in her station, under no ones orders making the choices she does ONLY because her mom is killed by Jinx. This happened to everyone in the cast and I didn't see any of them commit chemical warfare... None if what Cailtyn does in the show to "atone" is enough for the thousands affected which includes the literal checkpoints around the city meant to oppress Zaunites who simply support Jinx. How does this obvious classism and oppression not bother you? The show put it in for a reason and it isn't meant to be forgotten about. I simply said I don't like Caitlyn because I don't think she even seemed to regret her actions at all. Can you please tell me how you can forgive and condone such actions? Btw the quote you said at the end was after everything she has already done, kinda hypocritical. She says this to Ambessa because she realized how crazy her actions are when they aren't from her pov and hate filled. Lastly, I may have misread his tweet then but either way that doesn't really matter to the points I made or what happened in arcane.
@ you seem to be incapable of listening. You say that it’s “common sense” but the show doesn’t show that. So you are telling me things that you think or want to be true, but are not shown to be true in the show. Jinx lost a lot sure, but she didn’t sacrifice much like Caitlyn did. She only sacrificed herself and even that isn’t likely to be true. Everyone else either died because of her actions, abandoned her for the same reason, or made their own choice to sacrifice themselves for her. By no means is this atoning for her actions. You do a lot of excusing her actions despite claiming that you aren’t. Jinx did those actions no matter who you want to deflect blame to and she wasn’t just complicit with Silco, she actively did those actions. In a few cases, she pulls the trigger herself. Where as Caitlyn has to confront Ambessa about her and her goons causing violence, Jinx is a willing and active participant. They don’t simply support Jinx, they follow the actions that she does. They perpetuate the chaos she causes. Btw, if I recall correctly, Jinx herself uses the gas. How is it hypocritical when it’s made clear in that same scene that she isn’t causing that? She has to talk to her about the actions her men are taking. How and why are you condoning what Jinx and everyone else does? She does not say this because she “realized” her actions. She’s always been that way. Even the writers say that. You, for some reason, hate Caitlyn, but seem to ignore what the show itself is telling you, and make up things that didn’t happen. Pass that point, I can’t help you.
@@moonmoon2479 It is common sense lmao By your logic since the show didn't show them clear out the gray they used, then they never did. I'll like Caitlyn when it's "shown to be true in the show" that she pays for the medical bills and funerals of all affected. This is how you sound right now throwing morals away for your cartoon crush. I loved Caitlyn in season 1 I'm just sad that she has done so much harm to others. Also Caitlyn lost nothing lmao only her eye and sniping abilities. She lost the least of all the cast and is the only one with a happy ending even though she never atoned for her actions and barely was shown feeling regret. The only reason I'm "excusing" Jinx's actions is because what she did was not even halfway as bad and what Caitlyn did. Jinx mostly kills criminals who are ready to die in their line of work. We are shows throughout the whole show that the council is oppressing and taking away the rights of the Zaunites so personally their deaths were deserved and should've happened sooner. Jinx was groomed into it since she was a child (a point you purposefully ignored cuz it goes against you agenda, she literally gets more leeway in court for her circumstances). Caitlyn on the other hand grew up with privileged, loved and spoiled and can't even have the excuse of pleading insanity because of her actions who in contrast to Jinx are MOSTLY on innocents while she is in power in the fucking GOVERNMENT! open your eyes! answer my questions on why you are excusing her actions please. Unlike you I can see that Jinx clearly deserves what came to her but you seem intent on erasing every part of Caitlyn's character in the show and trying to prove she is an angel who did nothing wrong and doesn't need to atone. It is pretty convenient how you cowardly ignore the points I make about the thousands of hurt Zaunites the literal CHECKPOINTS, POLICE BRUTALITY, TORTURE INTERROGATION she condones and believes in btw. Ambessa wouldn't be able to do this all alone. Caitlyn approves it. You are erasing the story the writers wrote and condoning every bad action they set Caitlyn to do. Very weird how you find an excuse for all she's done. check yourself.
@ all I’m seeing is that you hate Caitlyn because you project something onto her. She’s definitely not my cartoon crush, and honestly, you sound like a lunatic. Especially when both writers and the actor have said that Caitlyn didn’t kill anyone in that regard so what funeral cost. Again, you are just making things up that didn’t happen. Jinx did many things that Silco didn’t ask her to do and you for some reason think that’s an excuse for her actions. Btw, Jinx killed a lot of people, Caitlyn hasn’t. Jinx revels in the violence, Caitlyn doesn’t. And while we are at it, why not look at Sevika? She was loyal to Silco and now look where she is. A head of that same government. You are constantly justifying Jinx’s actions, which makes you very hypocritical. Not even the writers or the actor go that far. Hell, even the actor said she wishes a world could exist where no one saw parts of themselves in her. For someone that talks about me throwing away morals, you spend a lot of time excusing a mass murderer. Btw, she would not get more leeway in court, considering she would be facing manslaughter charges, you’d be tried as an adult at that point. Especially with Silco dead. Ambessa does do a lot of that on her own. Caitlyn had to confront her about it. She definitely didn’t condone it, hell, you talk about the prison when she herself says she forbids the use of the cells that were once used before in season 1. How am I erasing the story the writers wrote when I have to be the one to bring them up and what they say, while you are making things up that didn’t happen in the show. I’d suggest you look in the mirror. Caitlyn and Jinx let go of hate, funny you can’t do the same.
"Sorry is just a word" Yes and if you're unable/unwilling to say it, it tells a lot about your character. The problem with Cait is also that she doesn't seem to regret her actions during part 2. She's angry when Vi confronts her, not shameful. The writers had no problem showing Vi's pain and how she struggles with her actions in E5. But Cait ? Not a single scene. No flashbacks of Vi, no introspection scene like in her shower S1E8. There's no build up for the reunion, it feels forced. And the sex scene doesn't magically solves everything. It's even worse when it comes to her actions against the undercity. Yes, she talks to Jinx about their crimes and that good actions won't absove them. Ok, what are the consequences for Caitlyn's crimes ? Nothing. She doesn't even apologize to the people of the undercity in any way. Caitlyn in part 2 and 3 are my biggest problems with the show. They clearly did a bad job.
Despite (for personal opinions about not liking stupid romantic drama like this) I really dont like Vi's and Caitlyn's ship now, but I can respect Caitlyn as a character and her own person because she fought against Ambessa.
Im not mad at her for the way she treated vi im mad because she became a dictator and oppressed zaun and even before that she made the decision to gas zaun it really ruined vi for me because it seemed she couldn't care less and even joined in on the war crime
They both deserve each other. Thank u for this video, the jail cell scenes, & in defense of Vi. Both Vi & Cait r complex characters who just work fantastically *pun EXTREMELY intended* 🧁
i mean, she lost an eye as a sniper, gave sevika her council's seat and forgave someone who kidnapped her naked, shot her, blew her and her coworkers up and killed her mom. she forbidden the use of prison cells which violates basic human rights, the prison food are decent and warm now. she helped Vi to free Jinx. she helped Vi to free Vander. she betrayed Ambessa for Vi. i dunno what more she could do within her position. she had redemption arc. most people just don't see it or refuse to see because they already hated her in season 1 which is crazy to me because she is like 5th person on the list of who has the most kill counts.
@@alexie3444 Absolutely, though gotta say I laughed at "kidnapped her naked bit" haha
her kill count will definitely be the highest in the future with the amount of children in Zaun who will die early deaths because she gassed them...
From what she last said to Jinx she doesn't seem to forgive Jinx ( and she doesn't have to after all Jinx did to her and the fact she killed her mother) but she cares about Vi so she trusts Vi, she also decided to let go of a hatred which poisoned her life and relationship to others. People don't have to forgive everything to be good people, and to me the fact she stopped following vengeance and put back her trust in Vi is good enough of a redemption along with her next actions (sacrificing her eye and give her seat at the council to Zaun)
@@jujublue4426 I agree. She doesn't forgive, but she accepts that Jinx is no longer that person and lets go of that anger. I feel like if Jinx were still with them, they would have been pretty fierce allies, if only because of Vi's importance to the both of them. Maybe that's just my own wish, but I like it regardless.
You know thinking about it, you're 100% right she did go through a major change.... and yet I think that's a real criticism, that a lot of that isn't highlighted properly by the show
Because if you think about it her big "shift" happened sometime between the end of the police state arc and Ambessa visiting Viktor's camp - and the show actually goes out of it's way to make it seem like Caitlyn is still on Ambessa's side, just to have a reveal about her planned betrayal in the midst of a LOT of chaos.
Yeah she did have a big change in character, but thinking back on it it's actually hard to pinpoint where that happens because of that little twist... That entire segment changes it's tone once you realize she's already turning on Ambessa, because otherwise it looks likes she's doubling down on her authoritarian identity, and betraying Vi again even harder. There's too much going on there to even process that that betrayal never happened, with almost every single character's story arcs converging on this one place, at the same time
I think that character shift should not have been used as a twist, in the middle of arguably the biggest moment in the show...
i feel like this was so obvious but SO much of the fandom didn’t catch any of this. they wanted some grandiose gestures/some hollow verbal apology from Caitlyn while actively ignoring the actual things that she did. She assisted with jinx’s release, she trusted Vi and gave her agency, she gave up her seat in the council to Zaun, she took down ambessa. I’m not too sure what else ppl wanted from her.
exactlyyy
And she highkey risked her life while doing so!!
It would be nice if they show us Caitlyn give her place in the Council to Sevika. The last episode only show us Sevika take a plece in the goverment and nothing more
You can heard how hurt cait when she said "i know" When vi accused her - she's a smart girl so she knew ambesha doing something bad, when she meet vi again i think she had that slight of hope, to break all the things that happen that's why she betray ambesha, and also fold when vi say "cupcake" 😂🎉. If the scene would be longer we might heard she apologize but even jinx and echo event got cut. We just need more
People forgot how to watch arcane
Someone looked at the room during that Maddie jumpscare and its missing the pillars in Caitlyns room. Caitlyn never actually let Maddie into her own room but she put Vi in her own room and her own bed just to recover.
Maddie jumpscare 🤣🤣🤣
@@PricefieldPunk also the difference between colors with madie it's dark, with vi? Cupcake rainbow color like Christmas tree
cupcake is down bad.
haha I saw someone refer to that as a 'Ginger Jump Scare" and now it's stuck in my head.
Maddie jumpscare has me in tears in the break room rn
Saw a video where the person explained that Caitlyn is not a very vocal person when it comes to her feelings. When she abandoned Vi she was hurt and disappointed and couldn’t vocalize it, so she punshed her. And I think that’s true, because in a lot of moments she comforts Vi with physical touch, like in season one when Vi opens up in Caitlyn’s bedroom, when Vi asks her to not change, which led to them kissing. She can’t really say what she’s feeling, so she shows it through actions
That is really the curse of her position though. She is of high society and such people aren't allowed to express themselves for fear of being exploited as a weakness.
@@captaintf7759 I also think that being from the high-end of society, she knows words have no meaning if not backed up by action. Her mother was a politician, she knows how often things are said without other intention than swaying people's mind.
Oh excellent point
I like how both of them, Vi and Cait, are not super vocal people about their emotions. But, they do show them in different ways, mainly through actions and physical touch (that be fighting people or intimate touches) 😂
Also when her mom died, she barely expressed it, even to her father and only broke down when facing Vi. Even Mel said that the girl was hiding it admirably even though she was in much pain.
"The biggest apology one can offer, is to correct the behavior"..So true !
Great video and absolutely on point.
Caitlyn had noticed she had become Jinx.2 . Grief had turned to anger and hate to a point were it wasn't "that one person" anymore, but "all of them". Resulting in a "cycle of violence" that would never stop unless some would be willing to "break the cycle".
Notice how the quotes of Caitlyn and Jinx are matching.
They both decided to break the cycle..
I don't know why, but I would see a dual portrait of Jinx and Cait being unchained from... Kayne and Morgana.
That's a nice fanart idea
Love this insight. Arcane truly is a masterpiece
I absolutely agree on all points. Actions speak louder than words. Caitlyn was filling a void while Vi was gone. I believe as well that there was no emotional attachment to Maddie. It was always Vi since the beginning. Caitlyn knew at one point she needed to right the wrongs she created and had to carefully go about executing her plan. Vi being there was the final push to go forward. Caitlyn realizing Jinx saved her and seeing her with family was a realization point. Letting Jinx escape was the final step to showing Vi she was sorry, there is trust and there is love. Even tho I feel they both should have had more screen time together, I’m happy they got to let go and choose each other. I hope to see them again in future seasons. Their story is far from over. I’d love to see them turn into Piltovers finest and help rebuild Zaun and Piltover.
I def can see them showing up here and there in future projects. Especially if the next show focuses on Noxus and perhaps introduces Urgot… now who is super important tot the Urgot story later??? If May be years from now, but there’s def more to come
When during that scene Cait looked at Vi and touched her near her bandage I knew right away she was probably reliving the moment when she hit her at that exact same spot. The bandage itself and the current wound is secondary, what was important is that is exactly the spot when Cait hit her with the rifle and to me it was such a sweet moment. Cait apologizes with her touch and feels sorry and Vi doesn't let her linger on that thought and pulls her in to stop that train of thought, showing she has forgiven her. I think a lot of people in the community were expecting some drawn-out conversation, a verbal apology - just read what the fanfiction was like between act 2 and act 3 - but the way Arcane writers did it is a million times better.
I also love that writers don't treat us as stupid idiots who need to be told everything. Someone said that means some ppl will inevitable misunderstand stuff, but whatever. Thanks for your take on this one, 100% agree.
Прекрасно сказано ❤
Chris linke said they let fortiche decide what happened physically during the sex scene and didn't give them notes, so the writers didn't craft that moment themselves lmao.
Even when Cait took the throne, so to speak, she did so with extreme reluctance, because even if she hates it (which she does, it was all over her face), Cait understands that it's better than someone else, like Salo being in charge. She wants to serve, not rule, which is why she gives up her seat to Sevika.
Another moment I love is her talk with Vi in the beginning of ep8. Vi berates her, correctly, for all the crap she pulled with Ambessa, and Cait responds with "I know." Taking full ownership of your mistakes is much harder than justifying it, which she does. Then she allows Vi to free Jinx, closing that loop altogether, and then her moment with Vi.
No words needed, because much like her girlfriend, her actions speak louder.
I would have loved to hear a verbal apology, but my desire to hear that doesn't change the fact the Caitlyn was very obviously regretful and apologetic and did in fact express that in a way that Vi clearly understood and accepted/forgave, so why do people get so mad that she gave her apology in a way that wasn't exactly how they wanted??
Caitlyn apologizes to Vi without saying "I'm sorry" aloud, just like Jinx apologizes to Caitlyn without saying "I'm sorry" aloud, both in the same exact room only like 5 minutes of screentime apart, and yet so many people want to act like Jinx's apology was this perfect subtle writing choice and Caitlyn's was total BS not good enough Vi should've never forgiven her!!!
The lengths people will go to just to misinterpret Caitlyn's character and set the bar higher for her than literally anyone else in this show is wild
wow, I never got this parallel! so true, Jinx definitely apologizes to Cait by saying she didn't know her mum was there. Now think how stupid this line would be if she actually said "I'm sorry" it would be so flat and shallow. Saying she did not know hits so much harder, it's so honest and so much in character for Jinx. Just like it's in Cait's character not to say "I'm sorry" but to act.
Jinx fanatics worshippers are the worst really. You see them all over social medias: to them there's only Jinx, now with Ekho and Isha who are all three perfect and deserves more screentime; also to them, there's no happy ending and there are so onixious to the fact that there IS a happy ending and Cait and Vi exist..really, sick of seeing those people, along with the Jaycex Viktor shippers: it's like friendship or brotherhood between two men doesn't exist, and every affectionnate gesture must be seeing as romantic. So much projection --'
Vi and Cait deserves more love ♥
something i've noticed is people misunderstanding the characters. both cait and vi are characters of action, their actions always taking president over their words. cait could've given the most well thought out apology but to her and vi it still wouldve felt wrong, she needed to show she was sorry through her actions and that she did. arcane isnt a show about perfect people being good vs easy to identify villains, its a show about really well thought out characters who feel real because they act in such human ways. cait is a good character, she has faults and fucks to then make amends, just like people do in the real world.
really good analysis btw great points all well made :))
yea i dont think cait had an emotional attachment to maddie, she seemed emotionless with maddies advances. When maddie goes to pull her in close in the bed scene, cait leans away from her, not towards her like she would with VI. Letting VI free jinx is a way for cait to let it go knowing that VI with a big heart would help her sister. Also in the prison cell scene with jinx, cait says " no good deeds can undo OUR crimes" she is also coming clean with not being a good person either.
And she also allowed zaunites a seat in the council she gave up her position
No one had an emotional attachment to Maddie 🤭
Anyway, grief and sexual frustration are a bad combo...Caitlyn!😒.
And knowing how Ambessa takes care of her frustration with the local cuisine, I am sure that was her advice to Caitlyn. From the get go I knew Maddie was sent after Vi (by knowing her whereabouts and name ...when that failed she went for Caitlyn. 007
Caitlyn hugged , comforted people outside Vi : her father , the drug addict , one of Silco's man left behind after the attack of the airship . She took Jayce by the arm to show her her investigation . She was enough warm with the woman in the brothel . All of that in S1 . It is clearly implied that she slept several times with Maddie but she does not even let her touch her hand , I do not know what it is but is is worse than having no emotional attachment . If she can be that warm to people she barely knows how can she be so cold to someone she works and sleep together ?
Moreover ,Jinx did not only killed Caitlyn's mother, it is not only about her . Other families want and deserve justice .
I do believe that actions are bigger than word but saying sorry is the strict minimum .
And again what about Zaun she mistreated , Pilltover who suffers a war after the end of Ambessa / Caitlyn alliance ?
Caitlyn did not initiate martial law and everyone seemed to agree with her being Commander but since it backfired did she apologize to her city ? How these people view her ? Only Vi is showed being mad during a scene againt Caitlyn about that. All of that is not really clear .
@@DianaDonineaux I don't think she generally did not allow Maddie to touch her at all. For me, this one scene was Cait already cutting Maddie because Vi came back.
okay, so I used to think that it did not make sense for Maddie to be the spy because she was so much into Caitlyn. But after thinking about it again and again I actually could imagine it being the sign that she's a spy. If you're so much into someone and this person just keeps rejecting you like Cait did, you would not just be happy and lovy with them regardless. Poor Maddie, she just had to keep faking it probably feeling super silly but that was her job lol
i also believe the scene where she says “i know” after vi’s “oinked poison into ur ear” is so important. it’s so hard to admit when you’ve been manipulated. the regret in her voice during that scene felt like somewhat of an apology to me
Unfortunately, much of the fandom who are rightfully critical of Cait's dictatorship and treatment of Vi will never be satisfied unless they see a verbal apology to Vi and long montage of her righting her wrongs in Zaun. Everything you pointed out and her giving her council seat to Sevika isn't enough. The Arcane audience should be able to give Cait the benefit of the doubt and assume she is taking even more steps to help Zaun. They act like S1 Cait, who genuinely wanted to stand up for Zaun, is gone forever. I think S1 Cait is who she truly is and will desperately try to rectify her many wrongs. Her actions in S2 Act 3 have her pointed in the right direction but she has a long way to go, but I choose to believe the best of her character because before her horrible downward turn, she did her best. Always.
Also, I agree that a scene with a verbal apology wouldn't hold a candle to the actions we saw. As someone whose love language is acts of service, i couldn't care less if someone flaps their gums at me. I believe what people do, not what they say. If someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Agree 100%. Would also like to point out Cait did promise Vi in episode 3 that she wouldn't change. Despite her words she changed and that's another reason for why I like "action speaks louder than words". A "I'm sorry" or any other form of verbal apology would not have been enough for Vi to trust Cait again. But her actions of turning on Ambessa and allowing Vi to release Jinx, that was enough for her.
Well, she was asked to promise not to change, and she said "I won't" so you could read that either way.
Personally, I also think that Vi asking Caitlyn not to change after going through something this traumatic is unfair to her. People change all the time, that's just life. I understand where Vi is coming from, but it's an extremely unrealistic expectation to set.
3:52, one of my most favorite Caitlyn expressions. Here she doesn't say anything, her eyes are enough to convey the emotions of guilt, remorse, and shame for hurting the person she loves, not believing that she deserves Vi or if Vi wants her back. And yet Vi is still in love with the person who gave her a second chance when they met in prison (Caitlyn freeing Vi from her cell).
I love Caitlyn Kiramman and that will never change.
"brought her back to her own house, in her own bed...😏"
Sneaky Cait
THANK YOU! This is everything I was thinking you just put it into words much more eloquently than I could.
Shes an "action not words" girl, Im blown away by the dozens of people that just ignore/dont understand that. Anyway brb need to keep defending her on the internet
Caitlyn apologized with her actions, particularly to a person to whom pretty words are meaningless. Vi wasn't going to accept Caitlyn saying she was sorry, not until Caitlyn had proven it with her actions... and when Caitlyn did by making it clear she enabled Vi to decide Jinx's fate (or put another way, whether Jinx deserves a second chance), apologizing would have just been self-aggrandizement on Caitlyn's part. Sadly, a lot of people seem determined to minimize her good actions while taking any misstep that doesn't match their pixel-perfect ideal and drag her through the mud.
One thing worth noting with Ambessa - Ambessa had played a masterful political gambit there by leaving Caitlyn with essentially no choice but to be her puppet. Refusing was not an option as Ambessa could easily just pick someone else, someone who might have a lot less care for collateral (such as Salo), if not just outright dispense with the pretense and take over the hard way while killing everyone who might be able to organize resistance. Caitlyn was cornered, and despite what people say about her becoming a dictator was something Ambessa had thrust onto her shoulders, as if Caitlyn wasn't shocked and paralyzed with horror at the suggestion.
Cait made plenty of bad choices in S2, but so does everyone else here and in S1. Why is Caitlyn singled out for them, if not a double standard?
Misogyny lmfao. The traditionally presenting femme characters that make dubious moral choices in a no win situation are typically shit on, unfortunately
I watched a 30min analysis on Caitlyn and why/how she communicates through body language, actions, and touch more than anything else and more than anyone else on the show. I wish it were more popular because of stuff like this😔
Can I have the analysis of Caitlyn too? Is that a on TH-cam video ?
@ Yea, if I remember correctly, it’s by Tilda Owen and it’s about why she believes it makes psychological sense for Caitlyn to fall for Vi. The physical touch isn’t the sole focus but she spends a lot of time observing it. Really makes you think about how Cait never touches Maddie. Anyway, TH-cam doesn’t like sending links, so hopefully this description is enough
@@ayiir7спасибо, добрый человек, найду видео и посмотрю ❤
I agree with you on all bases, but I’d like to add something. Lots of people have virtually no media literacy; they cannot perceive a the depth of a character’s action unless it is being spelled out for them. Cait takes an enormous step giving up the Kiramman seat to Zaun, but she does not apologise through words. People seem to think apologies only come in a written or spoken form. But that wouldn’t be like Caitc would it? Cait is not a ‘forefront’ person, not socially. She is very sheepish, shy at moments, that’s also why she is a straight shooter and doesn’t do close range combat frequently. She is also not the kind to seek redemption through an insightful exploration of her past mistakes or by giving a wordy explanation of why she acted some sort of way. She does not believe in redemption through apologies. She even says that in the jail scene with Jinx by claiming that her and Jinx can’t fix what they have done and can’t redeem themselves while facing the past. So what she does is start anew. And I think that takes enormous courage. Not saying it is the ‘correct’ way to deal with mistakes, it is one out of the many possibilities. And Cait being quite complex, and at times fragile, reflects herself perfectly in this way. She does not apologise through words, it wouldn’t be like her, she is far too stubborn and brash. But she does something so she can redeem herself, but she does it the Cait way. Using her power to do what’s correct and do right by the people of Zaun starting from now. I love her and will always defend her.
I think Caitlyn is one of the heroes in the show who has the courage to acknowledge her past mistakes. Admitting where she went wrong takes a lot of strength, especially for someone like her. It’s a shame we didn’t get to see how she arrived at the decision to let Jinx go with Vi’s help. She must have had countless internal debates, questioning what the right thing to do was in that moment. I would have loved to see more of that. Setting her pride aside couldn’t have been easy, but she did it for Vi.
When I say Caitlyn and Vi balance each other, I mean it in situations like this. Caitlyn strives to do the right thing, but she was blind to the reality of the Undercity before meeting Vi. She didn’t fully understand what life was like down there. And now, losing her mother hasn’t made things any easier, either. But through Vi, Caitlyn has come to understand what it means to survive underground, and now, because of Vi, she’s also aware of what’s really happening on the other side. The moment Caitlyn realized Vi was trying to rescue her dad, she instantly decided to help. Caitlyn genuinely wants to help the Undercity, but she needs a guide, and Vi is that guide. I can’t think of a better couple than them!
Thank you for the video
It's funny how people hated Cait for the things she did. But NEVER baited an eye when Jinx did the same, but WORSE. Did nobody remember how she kidnapped Cait, for no reason other than jealousy, and told Vi to KILL Cait in front of her so she can have Powder back?!?!? And yet, people called that "girl boss." So eff up and hypocrite.
I always read the apology so many people claim doesn't happen, not only as what the video says, but as every interaction they have throughout the last two Acts. It seems most people are looking for a grand, speak the words apology. The one time Caitlyn does attempt an apology like that (in telling Vi she was with Maddie during the breakup) Caitlyn doesn't want to hear it aka because she "doesn't care." The whole idea of how the apology and acceptance of it all works on both character's sides works in tandem of what happens in the last two Acts.
You explained this perfectly thank you very much! I was so tired of people misunderstanding Caitlyn and her relationship with vi this season I hope more people see this
Wonderful analysis. Thank you.
Don’t get me wrong, Arcane is a very emotional show, but I feel like people are expecting the characters to act exactly like they would in the same situation. Just because a character reacts or behaves in a way that you personally would/wouldn’t forgive, doesn’t mean they are automatically a poorly written character. I personally grew up in an environment where words and direct communication meant a lot. Saying the word “sorry” was important to me, because it forced me to me to face my mistakes without any guesswork on what my actions really meant. That being said, Arcane’s writing clearly shows that Caitlyn’s personality doesn’t match mine, and that’s ok. She has the right to handle apologizing in whatever way she sees fit.
Ty, im such a fan of Caitlin 😂
@@asarishepard8171 yes, mood hah
Me too. But she receive so much hate omg🙌💔
Cait should apologize? I wonder when Jinx is going to apologize to families of all the people she murdered.
Seriously tho 😂 Her like ‘apology’ to Caitlyn was funny, ‘didn’t know your mom was there, but wouldn’t have changed anything🤷🏼♀️’
Jinx is too far gone and over it all. I guarantee you the last thing she's thinking to do is give a apology speech at this point, give her a discount.
@rainnald0 I was just saying that it seems like people blame every character for everything that went wrong in the show, but not Jinx, couse Jinx did nothing wrong.
@@Ufos1984 hence the reason above mentioned.
@@Ufos1984 Oh I see, my bad. I don't think people don't blame Jinx for what she did. Everyone in Arcane did something wrong at some point and people are aware of it, mainly about Jinx.
😊 That jail cell moment can have so many interpretation and many essay can come out of that. Not just a sex scene.
From Cait picking up the keys from the ground which triggered Vi, having her turn around like S1. (fully aware what happens usually)...then waited for Vi to vent while walking towards her [...]
While they started to make out Caitlyn had no problème taking her shirt off...while gently and carefully unbuttoned Vi ...touching her wounds. Vi understood exactly what that touch meant ....😊
🤔maybe I should have my own discussion channel
Nah girl, Stop Me Oh ...you got this 🤗
To
love the video! currently writing my own caitlyn defense script :) the key to understanding her character this season is to put yourself in her shoes as well as pay attention to every LITTLE DETAIL in her actions, face, words etc.. they purposefully made her difficult to read to keep us on our toes 🕵️
That's literally why her character is particularly interesting because she has to be detailed down little by little to be fully understood. I love her so much. Those who hate her are just surfacial
Great Video I couldn't agree more!
Some hate on her because she succumbed to hatred and longing for revenge but what they don't see is that it is very realistic and relatable in real life. These kind of feelings we tend to experience makes us forget ourselves and become a person that we actually despise in the process.. When she snapped back and realized what she has become, She proceeded to try to correct all her mistakes and try to go back the person she once was. Finding her way to back when she lost herself is what I think is the highlight of her entire arc.
Once again, your essay is very on point !
If I may add, although Caitlyn did went through some redemption arc to allow Vi to forgive her, and herself to let go of her anger towards Jinx. I don't think she went through a redemption arc regarding other aspects though, namely her behavior concerning the people of Zaun. It is more, I think, acts of compensation, but not redemption, because the thing she did (chemical weapon, civil oppression, torture) can't be as easily forgiven considering the amount of people involved and the gravity.
And Caitlyn knows it : "No amount of good deed can undo our crimes" she says to Jinx in the prison. Moreover, what is mostly infuriating for her, I think, is that she's someone who believes in actions over words (as you said yourself). So to be in her position, where she wants to undo her mistakes, to correct her wrongs, but realistically can't, explains why she seems so angry in the argument with Vi. She's not angry against Vi, who's very much telling facts. She's angry with herself because she knows she's responsible for a situation she will have to work her whole life to compensate, and might never be forgiven.
Hence I think, the term "redemption arc" is kinda inaccurate when it comes to Caitlyn because the things we are seeing her doing, are undertaken after her rational analysis of the reality, to compensate for a situation that she knows is (partly) of her design.
Ty for spreading the good words about Arcane, I hope more of the fandom will be able to understand this piece of art thanks to people like you !
I think they will eventually calm down after hearing reason from people like her, you and many others commenting here and other analyzes that are based on facts and not gratuitous hate, you know? It's all still very new, people are noisy, superficial and change their minds with the wind. The fandom will eventually calm down and realize that they look like a bunch of kids yelling at their mom in the supermarket. After that they will say that they always supported Cait, or Vi and the others.
her arc is mostly her coming back to her senses. She kinda just stopped all the bad things she was doing, and there's some foundation hinted at for future improvement at the end but that's that.
I think she dont really need redemption for the chemical weapon tho imo. Cuz it was just targeting the silco goons/chem-barons. N she didnt even kill them the bullets she used were nets (the same one used on ambessa). The chem weapon was chosen to prevent the other worse option which was full scale hextech invasion that the council originally wanted to do before she stepped in with this proposal
@@ksalfkdsg That's right, the Gray was used specifically on barons and they goons. The objective was to avoid direct confrontation so as not to have any casualties. Was it wrong? It was. But, to be very honest, if it were in real life, no one would criticize the use of chemical weapons against criminals who commit child slavery and various other serious crimes.
@@mayaraqueiroz1849 I think it was just meant to be wrong in the sense that one of the qn the show explores is: to what extent does the pursuit of justice justify violence (Cait outright asks to what extend does "the end justify the means" and "why is violence always the justification for peace"). which ties in to the whole cycle of violence thing in that victims become the abusers.
but its not wrong in the sense of being an oppression on zaun like what the martial law was
@@ksalfkdsg Yeah, I feel you.
Cait does not need to apologize. She risk her life to try save Vi and Vander. She let Jinx go when the Councils wants punishment for her crimes. She lets Sevika go and even Sevika tries to kill her and Vi and she lets Sevika have her mother's seat at the council. Caitlyn and group able to shut down shimmers which Ekko couldn't.
I don't think she needed to apologise, just to show to softness towards Vi's past and trauma. It would have been a nice touch given Vi was going as far as becoming an enforcer for Cait etc. But it's just not something the writers decided to focus on and that's fine, it's still excellent
Man I must be oblivious to all these complaints people have 😂😂
I always tell people Sorry is just a word it means nothing without action. I rather someone show me they are sorry then tell me and that's ehat Caitlyn did.
I mean. Caitlyn helped Vi set her sister free. The sister that killed her mother. As far as meaingful apologies go, that's kinda hard to beat
I’m honestly surprised that with a show that has so much “show not tell” in it that so many people don’t feel like analyzing characters *actions*
Just..thank you😔❤🙏
Now I can send it to my friend who hates on Cait because "She's self centered and didn’t apologize too"
I was so hurt when she said that because really that was stupid. She alsl said that Vi should find someone who really loves her, like huh!?!. I wanted to cry because that girl receive so much hate when her character needs to be sat on and detailed carefully, that's what makes her character (arc in generally) so interesting. I love her so much❤
great analysis! I struggled a lot with Cait not apologysing but after thinking about it for longer I came to the conclusion that it's not in her character to say it explicitely. It's her way to make up for her mistakes by fixing the problem it created. So, wonderfully consistent. So great the writers know their characters so well.
And well... technically she did say "sorry" in this scene haha, it feels like the writers mocked us :D
This cleared up a lot for me! Thank you
The Maddie mistake was just a result of Caitlin being numbed by grief. Forgivable
i needed this this morning
Everyone analizando a character only for one or two chapter, tank you for do the right.
If we analizaing a character just for one chapter so Jayce part from carismatic, genius butt unmasked guy to a cold blood murder.
She's better than me. My villain era will never stop if my mom is killed.
I swear. Same here😂
finally someone understood and talked about it, great video
I still think that if Cait had said sorry instead of actively trying to amend her mistakes, people would twist her words and say “apologizing is not enough” and that “she should have done more.” Even if it takes a rewatch to notice, I think it’s better to show what she does rather than what she says: betrays Ambessa, is almost publicly executed because of it, sacrifices her life (and eye, remember she’s sniper so her vision is vital for her) then after the war she retreats the martial law, concedes the power to the council, gives her seat to a zaun representative! and probably more we don’t get to see. Even if the finale doesn’t show it, she does become the sheriff later on when Zaun and Piltover apparently have a better relationship so she’s not the evil witch many paint her to be. You can tell the writers had little time to cover every plotline in the season overall, so they chose to let visuals do the talk rather than fill it with dialogue (which I think it’s… questionable but works anyway). Caitlyn has no redemption because she herself thinks she’s not deserving of it, even comparing herself to Jinx at one point (mind u, that’s her biggest enemy) and people have a hard time accepting that because they truly wanted her to kneel in front of Zaun crying and asking for forgiveness when in reality, that would have been useless to both the city and her.
@@healstorm very well said, I agree
Amazing video! Thank you for doing this ❤ I feel like we needed something like this to drown out all the ungrateful and unfair hate these two are getting. Could you make a video analyzing their interactions this season?
Yes, it's coming!
@@StopMeOh OH, MY THANKS ♥️
People that say sorry often mean that they are sorry that they got caught, not that they're sorry for their past sins.
Actions count far more than words.
The big problem with this season is that it is too subtle. That's really where all the criticism is coming from: people not catching those little details. The other bigger problem was putting her in a one-sided relationship with the ginger. I hated that so much and I don't by the writers' claim that they did because Caitlyn somehow thought that her mother would be more accepting of a Piltover girl. The only way would have worked was if she was off the same standing - like if it was someone from Clan Ferros or some other high house. Instead we get this random girl that Caitlyn just ignores and at best talks at. It would have been better if she had been alone or at least if her dad was there. He's another character that they just dropped out of the show.
Caitlyn was trying to fill the void sleeping with Maddie, and it didn't work. that's the whole reason why she did it.
@@limanade145 One of the writers posted on Twitter that part of the reason that it happened at all was cause she thought that her Mum would approve of a Piltie girl. Overton herself said it.
@@captaintf7759извините, не поняла, при чём тут мама? Мама Кейтлин умерла, как она может что-то одобрить или не одобрить?
@@iavarra its just something that the writer said. I am clearly not doing a good job of explaining it but it was basically Caitlyn trying to make up for things that she thinks her Mum would have been disappointed in.
Perfect breakdown you put my thoughts into words.
I honestly appreciate it this and yes tbh with Maddie being a spy then maybe she didn’t even care for Caitlyn
Caitlyn is and always will be my favourite arcane character. I think people see her on a really surface level and don’t actually see what drives her as well as her actions at the end.
Maddie was just a rebound for Cait. She is pretty uncomfortable with Maddie, pulling away from her touch, even a bit disgusted at one point? The contrast between her interacting with Vi and Maddie is striking. I even felt bad for Maddie at the time because it sucks to be used like a distraction/rebound etc.
Maybe an interesting detail but she doesn't say "I'm sorry" to her own father. She says "I had the shot".
Overall, it had to be that way. Caitlyn speaks with her actions and not words. And if she just said "I'm sorry" then it would be hollow. I expected the events to go this way (them having to team up and Cait risking something to help) because that was the best way she could make it right.
No one even believes when they hear a person say 'I'm Sorry' these days so Caitlyn's actions speak much louder than those 2 words ever could. No doubt even if she actually said them it wouldn't have been enough for the people complaining. Actions speak louder than words and it's clear they did to Vi as well, and she accepted it. It was her choice to take Caitlyn back, to kiss Caitlyn, she had that agency, Caitlyn didn't force that on her, and before they went to far she even gave Vi knowledge of the fact she had been with someone else incase that knowledge would change what Vi wanted. Giving Vi the amount of agency she did at the end both with Jinx and in the cell was the ultimate apology.
Jinx never verbally apologized either, but no one complains about that.
Jinx isn't in a relationship with the person she needs to apologize to and isn't in a position of power, tbf.
Well, she DID apologoze to Cait though, maybe because she was depressed or something : O
apologise? "..that wouldn't have change anything.." if that's an apologise for you then ok
@@Amanoname-xd4sm it wouldn't, but is all curious she said it anyway, like she never regrets anything, except for this.
I agree 100% I felt moved how the non verbal apology and feel it means more the way Caitlyn did it
I think in some situations it is still better to admit your mistake and apologize with words through your mouth. I was brought up in such a way that if you don't say it out loud, then you haven't drawn conclusions and you can make such a mistake again. I do it myself, and I expected this from Kate in the series. But we have what we have.
It's actually very easy to say sorry it becomes cheap. Like my intern, saying sorry everyday making the same mistakes over 6 months. I'm sick of it and don't want to hear it any longer so I really really like people like Cait that shut up and did something about it.
@phucth91 you can do both. Apologize and hand over the conclusions so as not to repeat these mistakes. Verbal apologies do not exclude subsequent actions)
@@caseygold1283 what a perfect world you expect. Then there would be no crime, no war, everybody is the same like Viktor's stripped off personality subjects. Cait has been portrayed to have the "actions speak louder than words" since s1 and it would feel so much weird seeing her yapping sorry.
@@phucth91 On a logical level, I understand Kate's actions, but not on an emotional level. perhaps the situation would have been different if the series had shown more reflection on Caitlin's part, but there wasn't enough time for that. I'm not trying to convince you, I just expressed my unpopular opinion.
I think, we all are in denail 😂
An interesting take, and I really like it. Now I gotta rewatch season 2.
Fair points and opinions.
I do kind of wish we could’ve gotten more into the whole Cait and Vi Drama though.
About Vi, everything you said about them was correct. Vi was injured not by the blow but by the person who had hit her. It's quite different. More than the blow, the moment was when they both completely lost trust in each other: Caitlyn betrayed Vi and Vi defended someone she had "abandoned." That's why I think their intimate scene was so important, because it shows the trust they've rebuilt. It is not just about physical intimacy but also emotional, both finally laying bare all their emotions for the other to see. And in that moment of vulnerability, Caitlyn apologizes quietly, not with words, probably so as not to make it difficult for Vi, but with just her eyes it seems that she is asking permission, forgiveness and leaving the decision to break contact in Vi's hands at the same time. Letting her take the lead is also such a strong action.
Caitlyn was a very interesting character this season and it’s sad to see her reduced to a one dimensional villain or poorly written mary sue because people refuse to look at the details. Her extremely wrong actions are part of her indeed, but it seems like people can only remember her by those and it shouldn’t be like that at all.
I totally agree!! Thank you for your insight! 😊
So, reading the room this may be unpopular, but I'm going to say it anyway. Two points, but before that know that I like the writing and portrayal of Cait while not being a fan of the character. I disagree with the idea of verbal apologies not being needed because actions speak for themselves. In that vain saying 'I love you' is never needed. Cannot imagine a marriage or loving partnership that can be absent those words. Second, my main issue with Cait comes from a core focus of the series, classist society. Vi touches on it. All the actions and 'sacrifices' Cait makes as an apology are completely upto her. But Jinx and Vi have to get Cait's approval to get the same agency. There is no arbiter for Cait actions, no one standing outside her cell telling her that unless they are convinced she will never see a trial. The fact that Cait can seemingly see how she abused authority yet still wield it improperly makes me question if she really understands all the wrongs she has done. Or if she does understand, does it ultimately matter to her. Technically it should not matter, in a just world both Cait and Jinx would be subject to neutral arbiters. But in arcane and in reality that is not the case. Hence anger at Cait from a number of corners.
Exactly, thanks for this. It’s not just the interpersonal aspect with Vi that matters. But the structural context of Caitlyn’s actions, how they rely on agency that the undercity characters can’t afford despite being victim to, goes essentially unconfronted in Caitlyns arc. That is more what leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but the class power dynamic doesn’t seem legible to a lot of fans
I completly agree with this. I think words are not needed if it was a minor discusion or something like that but Cait went too far in arc 1. I feel this kind of normalises that all she did was acceptable because of her grief so she should not appologise just because of that.
Also you're totally righ, some characters like Vi or Mel or Jayce who are in a position of power can do whatever they want without mayor consequenses but if characters like Vi or Jinx commit a crime towards Pictover, even if it's not a big crime, we know they will be punished unless Cait or Jayce decide otherwise.
Agreed. 100%
I think it's more fans just trying to view this from their point of view. That if it were them, they would have wanted a verbal apology. But Vi doesn't really tick like that. Where she came from and how she does things aren't molded by words, but by actions. Caitlyn didn't need to say the words; in order for Vi to believe she sought forgiveness she had to show it. As far as Vi was concerned, she did. In the end, it is only Vi's opinion that matters.
Thank you! I understand these days everything must be spelled out in the most obvious of ways for the audience thanks to the Marvel Effect, but the writers SHOW Cait apologizing in so many ways. They also show that Vi isn't looking for pettiness and doesn't need everything spelled out with her I don't care moment about Maddie. What so many in the fandom seem to be forgetting is that these two do actually know each other and they know grief and trauma. They aren't looking for jealous, rageful vendettas with each other because their entire lives are full of that. The entire show is based on that. The actual story and backdrop make their actions understandable and every character is supposed to be flawed, but some are more redeemable than others. Cait shows Vi in so many ways she is sorry and knows she made a mistake but Vi isn't going to be a hypocrite and pretend like she doesn't understand making mistakes in moments of grief and rage. That is why they work so well and why they end up together. They deserve their happiness but too much of the fandom is overlooking the context of the show and trying to project their issues onto the characters. The writers did a wonderful job and so did you with this analysis.
I don’t think cait needs defense. She did absolutely everything right. Even that punch was deserved by vi.
Sending love to you cause you speak with volume what I'm afraid to say in public because 80%of this fandom is screwing her character and hate her simply (for somewhat stupid reasons)..ily❤❤❤❤
Finally someone said it 🫶🏻
All of this. But also. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. Shit happens off screen all the time. We can't assume we know all and have seen all just because we often know more than a few of the characters.
Arcane has always been show less tell, and l agree with you
Anyone noticed that Vi's hair is dark from the beginning of episode 6 till when she shields Jinx from the blast in the end, but in episode 8 her hair is washed and cyclamen color? 🤔 Who do you think gave her a bath, dressed her up and placed her in Caitlyn's bed? 🤔 Where did Cait sleep during the time Vi was unconscious? 😏 So.. bread for thought. 😇😇
Are people really complaining about Caitlyn? Did they forget the turmoil she must be dealing with, falling in love with her mother’s murderers sister??
Yes! i feel, a lot of people cant understand the most important things with this kind of animation, all about corporal lenguaje, details of actions and expretions, must of people cant se that and they want to see or hear everything literaly.
In maddie's defense when (not that she deserves it)
XD
I like Jinx, but her fandom is so toxic, hypocrite, and biased.
Fr
I think people struggle to accept and understand characters personalities, Caitlyn has never been the talking kind of person...she DO things, like listening to Vi in Season 1 or trusting and releasing her from prison, helping Vi save her father or literally letting Vi freed Jinx...Also there is a lot of thing we didn´t get to see tho...
The show just did not have enough time for some really interesting conversations that needed to happen.
Caitlyn and vi are not the only characters that suffer for this. One that bothers me a lot is Savika. She really deserved better.
It would have been really interesting to up pack the military dictator stuff. What exactly did Caitlyn know was happening and how do the people of Piltover and Zaun feel about it.
Were they reparations? Has something happened with the vents so that even if politicians in Piltover wanted to they could no longer pollute the air of Zaun without a complete over haul of the vents? Caitlyn has all of the documents now about the infrastructure.
A personal apology to vi is great. Verbal or non verbal. Caitlyn is not one to voice her feelings as much as expressing them physically.
What is her appology to Zaun like? I would have loved a long scenes with Caitlyn Vi Savika and Ekko where they unpack all that happened. And what to do about it in a way that feels just to the people of Zaun.
And it's funny that the real reason Cait gas the underground was BECAUSE the gangs started it first, with the ceremony. Yet, they call Cait "police brutality?" Did they NOT watch the show?!?! For me, that was the LAST starw from Cait to try to make peace, and I understand her.
Edited: you play fire with fire.
Браво!
It's kinda sad to see people who watch Arcane and know it's drill not catching these things. Thanks for the analysis
To be honest, I understand everyone's point with it being non-verbal, but I feel like if the cell scene was supposed to be Caitlyn's apology, I feel like it wasnt done well. I am one of those people that don't like how their relationship turned up. Their dynamic turn more co-dependant than anything. I feel like if season 2 wasn't so rushed and they expanded more on Caitlyn's time as a dictator and shown more of her sympathetic side, then maybe I can understand the non-verbal apology she gave. It's not that I think verbal apologies are better than non-verbal apologies, it's just I feel like their relationship didn't develop well enough for it. I feel like a non-verbal apology or anything non-verbal between Jayce and Viktor is powerful, but with Vi and Caitlyn it fell flat with me. I think if they expanded more on both Vi's character and Cait's character, I would understand and maybe accept it more. But for rn, as we have arcane as it is, their relationship went downhill for me. Their non-verbalness didn't do it for me.
I'm more curious why Maddie betrayed Caitlyn by the end?
She was Ambessa’s spy from the start. She was a Noxian, not from Piltover.
people need everything spelled out in words because the audience is full of 13 year olds watching the show with their eyes closed. You can tell half the people who watched only understood a vague overview of the story. A shame because Arcane is a literary masterpiece and a lot of the developments/etc. are hidden in gestures/expressions, visual symbolisms and such.
I think it's esp the case for caitlyn because she started bottling up her emotions in Season 2, esp after act 1 (when vi is gone).
Also I never understood what people even want a direct, outright apology from her for?
1. Hurting Vi? - But let's be honest this was kinda on both of them. Vi preventing her from killing Jinx led Jinx to succeed in her plan of releasing the grey into all of piltover, and forced upon the martial law. I mean cmon, do people really think Vi stopped her solely because of the kid? back in S1 (during the vi/jayce team up) Vi clearly didn't mind costing some kids life for the greater good. Like man, I know if I was caitlyn - and someone stopped me from taking revenge on my mother's killer, costing the failure of the mission (which was, to capture jinx so that we dont have to go with the other harsher measure that is FULL SCALE WAR), I'd be much more pissed than her.
2. Hurting Zaun? - Since the start, she's actively prevented harsh measures by the council on Zaun! Even when her mother was blown up, even when her mother's memorial was attacked and herself almost killed. Only when Jinx literally launched a CITY WIDE TERRORIST ATTACK ON PILTOVER that she went for harsher measures. Everytime the council tried to start war with zaun SHE IS THE ONE THAT REJECTS AND PROPOSES A PLAN WITH LESS HARM. Heck, even Vi in season 1 wanted the council to go to war with zaun to kill silco! she never recaptured all the falsely imprisoned zaunites and gave them the choice to leave and not participate in the war. she improved the prison system forbidding inhumane cells and improved the quality of food prisoners eat. she released THE KILLER OF HER MOTHER for both vi, and as a sign of rejection of piltover's current justice system (she doesn't believe they have the right to be dealing out justice). she gave her council seat to sevika who represents Zaun. She was literally fighting to the death to stop ambessa/viktor from turning all of them into mindless zombies. like do people really expect her to go up on the stage and say IM SORRY to all the zaunites?😭 Like you're saying if a politician fucks up you'd prefer this over... ACTUAL ACTIONS?? I guess there could be more she could do, but fixing up the PnZ relationship was never the focus of Arcane and it would take at least another season (they've had conflict for hundreds of years). But the foundation is definitely there, mostly set by her.
3. Hurting Jinx? - the fuk?? people be saying that she should apologize for hating jinx as her mother killed their parents and this shows they watched the show with their eyes closed. Vi and Jinx's parents were killed by enforcers in retaliation in a VIOLENT REVOLUTION started by... ZAUN. Like sure... P was oppressing Z there's no denying that. But some people seem to think Cait's mother literally ordered the enforcers to suddenly invade and kill J&V's parents like what???
She deserves much more recognition 🙌
@@ksalfkdsgthe last line is so true like she literally didn't go there herself to kill their parents. SHE WAS NOT THE ONE THERE(She was like 16 back then, how would she know even)!!!!
It's so weird that many people did not catch so many things. Are people not educated in literature and non verbal imaginary?
The show was crafted as a literary art but the audience is full of 15yos and too "fandom"ized who def never taken a day of literature or film studies in their lives. They believe and understand things on a very surface level, and any analysis that paints their favourite character wrong is ignored or attacked.
@ksalfkdsg This is so sad because this TV show is masterfully crafted and it pains me to see people badmouthing something this good. I hope they acquire the skills and will watch this show again and recognize the show for the absolute artwork which it is.
Hey ola, did you play the new life is strange game? I loved watching you play lis2 and replaying the first game during December is strange
I did! Did not quite like it sadly. A review is coming for sure soon
@ why did you not stream it like lis2 and true colours?
Não entendi nada por quê a legenda traduzida não é muito boa, porém concordo plenamente. 😌
Ola.. next time you will watch your most favourite scene... try realize that Caitlyn wouldn't have been able undress Vi's top in the way she did it...
@@beastmonger4821 she was able actually, I checked Vi's shirt in another scene xD
@@StopMeOh but how? how undress bodysuit with pants still on...
Nice fact checking lol@@StopMeOh
@@michaelcarlson1208 😂
@@StopMeOh i'm telling you... there is no way take that bodysuit with pants on...
Ok I will try to not sound condescending but people who watch Arcane and pay attention and such. Should know that Caitlyn comes from a family where people rarely apologize by using their words. They do that more in other actions.
Also yes Caitlyn having her hand above Vi wound. Is showing that she realize that is where she hit her
Personally, even with what Caitlyn did to redeem herself, she should've started over slowly with Vi instead of going straight to boning in the prison room.
You do remember that Vi initiated, right?
@ I generally meant both of them.
Well said. ‘Sorry” can ring hallow when circumstances are unchanged and grievances unresolved. In the cell Jinx and then Cait both atoned for their part in keeping Vi from pursuing her own happiness and making sure Vi hasn’t “lost everyone”
This is a good analysis but I don't think I can ever like Caitlyn again after what she did in season 2. Nothing she does will be able to make her atone for gassing the undercity and giving thousand of innocent people and children early deaths and illnesses, similar to what happened to Viktor. Even saying it was in revenge for her mother doesn't make sense because she took her moms goodwill to build something to make the undercity people breathe and immediately turned it into a weapon to strip them of the most basic human rights for her own selfishness. horrific how people can defend her on what she inflicted on the lowerclass she calls 'animals'. You can tell people who justify her actions never experienced what being oppressed is like especially against a fascist regime like Caitlyns.. Even worse is that she got a happy ending and the only thing she lost was her eye and use of a sniper. THATS NOTHING compared to what she's done. sick.
fun fact: Ekkos va on twitter called Caitlyn Kukluxkiramman lmao and he's not wrong
@@Maryam-un1cr few things.
One: Victor was exposed to it for a long time. It doesn’t kill when used like that. By that logic, Cait will also die in the future, because she got gassed.
Two: I did not see her gassing children or innocents. Chem barons and Jinx’s hideout, which is where she was. But you seem to forget she was after only Jinx. Things like what Ambessa did put her at odds with her. She says it outright in episode 4.
Three: Jinx is a mass murderer and doesn’t seem to care much for that. Yet Jinx doesn’t pay for it at all by your logic. She just leaves.
Four: I don’t recall him calling her that. He just said he wouldn’t forget that but he didn’t condone it himself. If he did, then he’s wrong, because the creator and writers do not feel comfortable calling her even a dictator. Besides, when has a KKK member said “why is peace always the justification for violence?”
It seems like you are projecting a bit.
@@moonmoon2479 h u h ??? please read this fully and explain how you can condone her actions. I'm curious how her actions seem forgivable to you.
Caitlyn literally used her moms air filtration system to use the gray in the undercity. It is common sense that the gas will diffuse all over the undercity to less concentrated areas as well. Most of it is enclosed underground so that gas is permanently in the many many places it was used. this will stay there for a long time all over it spread to, and be breathed in even if diffused and cause long lasting effect on EVERYONE living there (which includes pregnant people and children)!
This is common sense.. did you think they vacuumed up the gas after using it for such a long time lmao??? it won't just disappear. Even if the air filtration system is turned on, it wont get all of it and it wont help the people who have already breathed it in for days. Caitlyn also wore a gas mask for most of it and only took off the mas for MINUTES. By wearing the mask it shows she knows how dangerous the gas is but she doesn't care if the 'animals' in Zaun are the ones hurt.
Jinx lost EVERYTHING after what she did in her mentally unstable state. I am not excusing her actions but she pays for it by most of her loved ones dying (Isha Vander etc, and losing everything else including her will to live). She seems well aware that her actions are her fault as she sings in her song that its her fault she's all alone. Jinx also tries to atone for what she's done by killing herself (obviously not the right way to do it but at least she is aware that the severity of her actions need severe consequences).
Additionally, there is no way you are comparing Jinx's actions to Caitlyn's. Jinx grew up since she was like 10 with Silco where crime was ALL she knew. She was quite literally groomed into being a part of Silco's crime sindicate. She is mentally unstable. None of this excuses her actions really but it can't compare to a grown woman who is highest in her station, under no ones orders making the choices she does ONLY because her mom is killed by Jinx. This happened to everyone in the cast and I didn't see any of them commit chemical warfare...
None if what Cailtyn does in the show to "atone" is enough for the thousands affected which includes the literal checkpoints around the city meant to oppress Zaunites who simply support Jinx. How does this obvious classism and oppression not bother you? The show put it in for a reason and it isn't meant to be forgotten about. I simply said I don't like Caitlyn because I don't think she even seemed to regret her actions at all.
Can you please tell me how you can forgive and condone such actions?
Btw the quote you said at the end was after everything she has already done, kinda hypocritical. She says this to Ambessa because she realized how crazy her actions are when they aren't from her pov and hate filled.
Lastly, I may have misread his tweet then but either way that doesn't really matter to the points I made or what happened in arcane.
@ you seem to be incapable of listening.
You say that it’s “common sense” but the show doesn’t show that. So you are telling me things that you think or want to be true, but are not shown to be true in the show.
Jinx lost a lot sure, but she didn’t sacrifice much like Caitlyn did. She only sacrificed herself and even that isn’t likely to be true. Everyone else either died because of her actions, abandoned her for the same reason, or made their own choice to sacrifice themselves for her. By no means is this atoning for her actions. You do a lot of excusing her actions despite claiming that you aren’t. Jinx did those actions no matter who you want to deflect blame to and she wasn’t just complicit with Silco, she actively did those actions. In a few cases, she pulls the trigger herself. Where as Caitlyn has to confront Ambessa about her and her goons causing violence, Jinx is a willing and active participant.
They don’t simply support Jinx, they follow the actions that she does. They perpetuate the chaos she causes. Btw, if I recall correctly, Jinx herself uses the gas.
How is it hypocritical when it’s made clear in that same scene that she isn’t causing that? She has to talk to her about the actions her men are taking. How and why are you condoning what Jinx and everyone else does?
She does not say this because she “realized” her actions. She’s always been that way. Even the writers say that. You, for some reason, hate Caitlyn, but seem to ignore what the show itself is telling you, and make up things that didn’t happen. Pass that point, I can’t help you.
@@moonmoon2479 It is common sense lmao
By your logic since the show didn't show them clear out the gray they used, then they never did. I'll like Caitlyn when it's "shown to be true in the show" that she pays for the medical bills and funerals of all affected.
This is how you sound right now throwing morals away for your cartoon crush.
I loved Caitlyn in season 1 I'm just sad that she has done so much harm to others. Also Caitlyn lost nothing lmao only her eye and sniping abilities. She lost the least of all the cast and is the only one with a happy ending even though she never atoned for her actions and barely was shown feeling regret.
The only reason I'm "excusing" Jinx's actions is because what she did was not even halfway as bad and what Caitlyn did. Jinx mostly kills criminals who are ready to die in their line of work. We are shows throughout the whole show that the council is oppressing and taking away the rights of the Zaunites so personally their deaths were deserved and should've happened sooner. Jinx was groomed into it since she was a child (a point you purposefully ignored cuz it goes against you agenda, she literally gets more leeway in court for her circumstances). Caitlyn on the other hand grew up with privileged, loved and spoiled and can't even have the excuse of pleading insanity because of her actions who in contrast to Jinx are MOSTLY on innocents while she is in power in the fucking GOVERNMENT! open your eyes! answer my questions on why you are excusing her actions please.
Unlike you I can see that Jinx clearly deserves what came to her but you seem intent on erasing every part of Caitlyn's character in the show and trying to prove she is an angel who did nothing wrong and doesn't need to atone.
It is pretty convenient how you cowardly ignore the points I make about the thousands of hurt Zaunites the literal CHECKPOINTS, POLICE BRUTALITY, TORTURE INTERROGATION she condones and believes in btw. Ambessa wouldn't be able to do this all alone. Caitlyn approves it.
You are erasing the story the writers wrote and condoning every bad action they set Caitlyn to do. Very weird how you find an excuse for all she's done. check yourself.
@ all I’m seeing is that you hate Caitlyn because you project something onto her. She’s definitely not my cartoon crush, and honestly, you sound like a lunatic.
Especially when both writers and the actor have said that Caitlyn didn’t kill anyone in that regard so what funeral cost. Again, you are just making things up that didn’t happen.
Jinx did many things that Silco didn’t ask her to do and you for some reason think that’s an excuse for her actions.
Btw, Jinx killed a lot of people, Caitlyn hasn’t. Jinx revels in the violence, Caitlyn doesn’t. And while we are at it, why not look at Sevika? She was loyal to Silco and now look where she is. A head of that same government.
You are constantly justifying Jinx’s actions, which makes you very hypocritical. Not even the writers or the actor go that far. Hell, even the actor said she wishes a world could exist where no one saw parts of themselves in her. For someone that talks about me throwing away morals, you spend a lot of time excusing a mass murderer. Btw, she would not get more leeway in court, considering she would be facing manslaughter charges, you’d be tried as an adult at that point. Especially with Silco dead.
Ambessa does do a lot of that on her own. Caitlyn had to confront her about it. She definitely didn’t condone it, hell, you talk about the prison when she herself says she forbids the use of the cells that were once used before in season 1.
How am I erasing the story the writers wrote when I have to be the one to bring them up and what they say, while you are making things up that didn’t happen in the show. I’d suggest you look in the mirror. Caitlyn and Jinx let go of hate, funny you can’t do the same.
"Sorry is just a word"
Yes and if you're unable/unwilling to say it, it tells a lot about your character.
The problem with Cait is also that she doesn't seem to regret her actions during part 2. She's angry when Vi confronts her, not shameful.
The writers had no problem showing Vi's pain and how she struggles with her actions in E5. But Cait ? Not a single scene. No flashbacks of Vi, no introspection scene like in her shower S1E8.
There's no build up for the reunion, it feels forced. And the sex scene doesn't magically solves everything.
It's even worse when it comes to her actions against the undercity. Yes, she talks to Jinx about their crimes and that good actions won't absove them. Ok, what are the consequences for Caitlyn's crimes ? Nothing. She doesn't even apologize to the people of the undercity in any way.
Caitlyn in part 2 and 3 are my biggest problems with the show. They clearly did a bad job.
Non-verbal apology is hilarious.
Despite (for personal opinions about not liking stupid romantic drama like this) I really dont like Vi's and Caitlyn's ship now, but I can respect Caitlyn as a character and her own person because she fought against Ambessa.
Im not mad at her for the way she treated vi im mad because she became a dictator and oppressed zaun and even before that she made the decision to gas zaun it really ruined vi for me because it seemed she couldn't care less and even joined in on the war crime
Perfect
They both deserve each other. Thank u for this video, the jail cell scenes, & in defense of Vi. Both Vi & Cait r complex characters who just work fantastically *pun EXTREMELY intended* 🧁