Sir, your reporting of Super Yacht news and events is amazing. You have earned my utmost respect. We need more people like yourself, who speak and report the truth. Please keep up the channel.
I agree with your comment. I will say as well that I greatly admire the manner and reporting methods and skills of eSysman. I will even say that his approach helps make the subject interesting to me. Being a "small sailboat man" myself, I find super yachts to be ostentatious at best and ghastly at worst and certainly not a subject I would likely explore absent eSysman's excellent presentation skills. By telling the stories behind the story, he reveals the current-day relevance of these absurd vessels.
Vital topics that are important to know for everyone will be voiced on April 22nd at an international online forum *"Global* *crisis.* *There* *is* *a* *way* *out".* Please join.
Just wondering, are these really lithium batteries like in a Tesla or Lithium Iron Phosphate (Lifpo4)? This is essential to know. Lifpo4 are super safe and suitable for yachting. I do have these on my little 29ft. The price is ridiculous for Lifpo4 but they last 10 years plus and are much safer.
Thermal runaway doesn't occur unless there are faults. And second, if the particular battery cell chemistry is LIFEPO4, thermal runaway doesn't occur at all. (very different to for example the chemistry in Tesla batteries. (these days tesla also have lifepo4 in some cars). Can you find out what exact type of battery chemistry those batteries are?
Your first sentence is correct. So long as there is no external problem. LiFePO4 can have thermal runaway, but at much higher temperatures. Tesla is actually the leader in Li-Ion safety. NASA actually used their thermal system as a starting point when designing Li-Ion batteries for use in space on the ISS. NASA wanted a totally passive system rather than relying on a coolant circuit.
Wow mate, absolutely packed full of news this one! It must be exhausting trying to keep up with all this stuff. Do you remember the old days, when you used to stroll around a marina on the Côte d’Azur or an Italian port and talk about which boats were visiting. 😄 Who would have thought back then, that a war in Ukraine would affect your channel so much !! You’ve rolled it it well though. I’m really pleased for you that your channel is doing so well
Thanks for your comments. Of course we still will do that kind of content, as and when we are in those parts. But now we have the news to do as well, yes things have changed a lot!
It doesn't sound like anyone you spoke to knows much about battery systems. If they have the largest battery bank afloat on a private yacht, it's reasonable to assume they have a modern battery management system. This would include thermal shutdown as well as disabling the batteries should the voltage drop below a certain threshold. The batteries will appear dead at that point but are really in a sort of deep sleep and are reactivated by applying a charge to them. The only way the batteries would require charging is if they are being drained. The parasitic drain from the bms is minimal, and scales favorably as battery pack size increases. On a pack that size, it could sit for a year if there is no load other than the bms itself. And again, if if was drained it would just enter a sleep mode. Thermal runaway of the kind you describe is not a thing on dormant batteries.
They picked the right area and time of the year to test sails........ the eastern wind comes off the Croatian Coast and in to the Adriatic so fast it whips the water in to the air. It's spectacular.
I agree with many of the posts below about the safety of the batteries. The issues you mention, not being monitored and elevated temperature do not create the risk you suggest. You've used a classic clickbait title for this video which is unfortunate.
Most likely the batteries will slowly deplete themselves until shutoff by the bms. Very small chance of fire with Lipos in that non charging situation. However heat on board will severely shorten the life of those batteries and obviously will damage them if we are talking about such high temperatures for extended periods of time.
@@zlmdragon. you obviously never walked barefeet across a teak deck in the sun in a warm country... The underwater parts of the hull never get hot, yes. The parts above the water line? Different story...
Modern lithium battery packs have been built with many safeguards. A ship that is shutdown and not drawing from batteries and not trying to recharge them isn't at much risk within a certain ambiant temperature range. They will gradually lose their charge via chemical reaction, and below a certain poit, they start to be damaged, mostlty in terms of battery capacity instead of fire risk. But eventually, they can start to inflate/burst at which point, big badaboom and Liloo would say.. (the chemicals are stable but when exposed to oxygen, they can self ignite). Ambiant heat can be a problem but if the batteries are below water line, wouldn't such a section of ship remain cool? If they get too hot, can can start to swell and if they burst, then big badaboom. Of course, such concentration of batteries means that if one catches on fire, then runaway situation with heat causing neighbouring ones to follow suit. If salt water comes in, then it will ve a very very bad day due to short circuits. (in such a circumstance, being as discharted as batteries allows would reduce impact). If the departing crew do a proper total shutdown of ship, and a new crew know how to restart it properly, and the time period in betwteen isn,t too long, then I don't think the danger would be that great. But whoever buys the ship would want to have the batteries tested as part of due diligence to find out if being idle for x time had caused damage to their capacity and ifr they are safe to operate,
Remember, the people in charge of your Lithium batteries... you didn't pay because of sanctions. A mad crew may forget to put all safeguards in place before leaving unpaid.
That ship will become a time bomb if there is no crew around to monitor it. He said the ambient temps in Montenegro will make that yacht very, very hot in no time at all.
It is specifically lithium polymer batteries (used most commonly in drones where weight is paramount) that can, and do, catch fire when discharged too far. The dominate lithium chemistry on boats is lithium iron, because it is inherently stable, and will not catch fire from self discharge. The standard way to store them is to disconnect them after a full charge. Then they should be good stored for 6 months to a year without damage.
Luminosity will be very luminous soon. They are not lying about those batteries, they have to be looked after carefully when there are so many so close together. It only needs one to blow and set the rest on fire and once it starts there is no stopping it.
Total bs with the battery scaremongering. There is a battery management system and automatic safety systems. Thermal runaway only happens during incorrect charging or physical damage. High temperatures inside the boat are not high enough to cause thermal runaway.
@1:12 It looks to be part of the Imperial Fleet. I loved when you referred to that in a video a couple of years ago regarding the management company at the time. Can you remind us which boats belong to the Imperial Fleet, or is that not a thing anymore? Love the content and the length of these videos. Keep up the good work. I don't get my yacht news anywhere else.
At minimum IMO you should also have a bosun, a second engineer & a crew chef all on rotation and two stewardesses as a minimum to maintain any large yacht.....regards Jon
Could the quoted monthly cost of keeping Alfa Nero crewed include more than just salaries alone? It's possible they are counting provisions for the crew, fuel for generators, as well as cleaning and maintenance supplies. I wouldn't be surprised if the government has taken out some kind of insurance as well. Those premiums could also contribute to the quoted costs.
I wonder why the designers of M/Y Luminosity chose LiPo batteries instead of LFP. Tradeoffs in each case I'm sure, but eliminating the possibility of thermal runaway would, I hope, be a very high priority for yacht engineers.
Oh eSysman great video as usual but those outtakes at the end!😂 😅 Just priceless. Especially amidst all this talk of millions and millions of euros or dollars for yachts. Puts "priceless" in perspective 😊😅❤
12:00 - 36 tons of Samsung Galaxy levels of explodey fun just waiting to happen. Whatever genius decided to go with Li-Ion and not Li-FePo needs his head checked...
One of the Oligarchs favorite law firms, Dentons of London specializes in keeping sanctioned peoples properties from being seized. They have many ways to circumnavigate the laws and sanctions. Getting around sanctions seems to be working as recent reports say that just in the last year sanctioned Russian billionaires made over a half Trillion dollars. A lot of that is by selling sanctioned oil and rare earth minerals.
I suspect that CNBC might have some sort of service agreement/subscription-type thing with Reuters that let’s CNBC use whatever Reuters’ photos as long as CNBC keeps their payments to Reuters up-to-date.
Your guy is overstating the case with the lithium battery situation. They do not like staying at full charge. They prefer to be stored at 40-60% of capacity. This is why they tell you to charge your new laptop before you use it and have to run all the updates. In regular use it is best to keep the battery charged between 20-80% unless you plan to use it heavily and want the full capacity. As far as safety goes, each individual cell in the battery can be thought of as a roll of the dice. A 10,000,000-sided die. That’s about the standard failure rate of mass-manufactured cells. A battery that big will have a lot of cells, but not 10 million. Unlike lead-acid batteries, lithium doesn’t lose charge quickly. Less than a percent or two a month. The main concern with letting the battery run low is damaging weaker cells’ capacity if one or more fall below a critical voltage, 2.5v for Li-Ion, 2v for LiFePO4. So, if held at a reasonable storage charge, the main concern for the battery would be keeping an eye on the monetary investment, rather than safety. Twice-daily tracking would be simply to spot a trend in weak cells so that they can be swapped out before they drag down their neighbors. If not kept fully charged near 100% for an extended period of time, I would not worry about thermal runaway or fire.
Oh, and 40 C is nothing for the cells. That’s on the high end of normal operating temperature, like what you would preheat them to if you wanted maximum performance out of them. Thermal runaway temperature is 130-200 C, depending upon the chemistry. This happens when the cell has an internal short from dendritic growth, such as can happen if you keep them at 100% charge all the time, beat them to death regularly, or some external source of heat is applied.
Lithium Batteries - It's Great News for the City/Port - Send a crew to Maintain the Batteries while use them as a Power Bank for the Local Grid. It can be Done. and off course - all works added to the Ships Bill... Thanks Mate.
Just wanted to add that eSysman's technical info surprises this 25 year IT pro with his accuracy. All media seems to completely bugger up communicating accurate info regarding technical matters. Mainstream and social. I've worked inside many data centers, cages, and closets. And designed and maintained various UPS systems. These systems have many parallels to the type of systems he was reporting regarding the concerns around that huge Li-Ion power bank and the concerns regarding damage to the system and serious safety risks. Dude knows his stuff. 👍
🔋Most non-phosphate lithium batteries (the dangerous ones) can comfortably handle ambient active charging temps of around 45˚C, and safe resting temps of 60˚C. LifePo lithium is a safer option - but not by a great margin.
Unless the batteries are over charged or discharged at a high current, there shouldn't be any problems. I have several LifeP04 batteries in my camper van and I'm not the least bit worried leaving it for 6 months while I'm in the Med.
The scuttlebutt is that these are lithium polymer batteries, which just seems crazy for safety reasons, and why the majority of boat energy storage is LiFePO4.
@@wendygerrish4964 LiFePO4 batteries are commonly known as lithium iron batteries, and are considered to be one of the safest lithium chemistries. There are a lot of different types of batteries that use lithium, and fall under the term "lithium batteries," so they are often confused with each other. They vary a lot in safety, so many people attribute to one lithium chemistry the qualities of another.
Lithium thermal events typically happen when quickly charging or discharging. If the packs are simply left idle and deplete, well an empty lithium pack is not a hazard, you can just toss them in the trash bin at that point w/o risk. A fault could occur on its own, but the battery pack design should be able to isolate it and I would hope an automated firefighting system is on board.
36 toñne of closely packed lithium batteries in a ship hold , left unattended is not something to be taken lightly, with t would only take one to fail,
This can happen more and more. As I mentioned before, more research needs to be done on these batteries because of their issues. And they are dangerous in other ways to the environment. Something for thought. We trade in toxic gases for even more dangerous things like this! We’re not going forward we’re just making the same mistakes over and over.
i've heard descriptions of thermal runaway fires in cars. with the so-much-larger battery pack in that vessel a fire would produce a so-much-larger disaster. which brings us back to my previously-suggested ''bills not paid? tow it out and scuttle it'' risk-mitigation strategy.
This is why more research needs to be conducted on these batteries. NO electrical vehicles should ever be produced or powered without research on them. Very dangerous. And we’re just going to do it just because…
Let's hope that the shipyard has planned for the removal of the LI batteries. One would think it's cheaper to store them safely than to risk a potential fire. Please keep the bloopers!! I was not expecting that. Too funny!
The battery is going to have a battery management system in place. So long as they are maintained at a good storage voltage, they are probably going to be safer kept onboard. The battery management system will look out for trends in the individual cells that indicate that a cell needs to be taken out of service and replaced. Checking on them once or twice a day is about looking for those trends. That could be done online. The liquid-fueled engines and damage from vermin chewing on cables are far more of a concern.
Luminosity is not in a shipyard but a marina in Tivat, where the amazing disappearing owner sent her to avoid sanctions when she still at Benetti yard when purchased. Luminosity is a beautiful ship, full of cutting edge technology, but seems to be cursed, her first owner never took delivery and the second has abandoned her and is denying ownership, as if this wonderful yacht was a scrap car.
Batteries: i can’t imagine LiIon (NMC, NCA) batteries on a boat. Usually LIFePo4 batteries are used that are not prone to thermal runnaway. The only disadvantage is the slightly higher weight which is not so important on boats than on cars / aircrafts
Al Lithium based batteries have a much lower self discharge than lead acid ones. In a „storage charge“ setting you can leave them 2 years without degrading, if properly cut of from any power consumer.
Following the channel since 2018. I like the current video's but must say it gets to much alike. Videos made like before covid visiting a harbour filming some yachts and just tell a lot of info about these yachts or how things work was very interesting. Maybe you should do a few again every 2 or 3 weeks. I must say this video had quite some different SUPERYACHTS stories, info and was close to what you did before.
A lot of comments regarding your take on the risk of fire caused by the batteries... Any chance you could expand as they seem quite well informed... keep "em coming mate 👉🇬🇧👈👉❗
I would expect a super yacht to be using LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries. They are safest chemistry and the most common in yachts. They have very little chance of thermal runaway, and that it may happen at 195c and above.
Yeah, totally ill informed clickbait. These type of rack mount batteries are designed to be left unattended and are maintenance free for years. They have automatic protection against over-charge and discharge.
5 months no pay, and they're still there? or are they waiting till the outstanding pay tops the value of the ship, so they can claim ownership and sell it?
Wow captain and chief is a better gig than I thought. And I assume that room & board is free while onboard. And yet the merchant marine can't manage a decent salary.
The lithium batteries would just slowly degrade especially if there is some power drawn. I don’t see a risk of fire as this normally happens exactly in opposite situations: top charge, high current draw or mechanical stress. They may just die… who cares? What’s sad is that one could have built hundreds or thousands of small electric cars with these. Or some other useful things.
Will those batteries it depends what type of lithium ion battery it is. The safest type of lithium ion battery is lithium ion phosphate, this will not have a thermal run away, but the other more high performance types can. And what you said about always keeping the battery fully charged is exactly the wrong thing to do. The best thing to do for battery health with any type of Lithium ion batteries is to regularly cycle them slowly. So slowly charge and slowly discharge, but not 100% full and not 0% empty just cycle them from 10%-90%.
The spot the yacht game is a quality move. I have no clue, and I'm very happy you'll be telling me her sexiness's name in a few minutes! Someone is implementing advanced news production techniques to keep the intrigue going. I think you are doing teasers too eh? 😉
Regarding salaries, when a non marine company that offers benefits such as health insurance or a pension, the company pays significantly more than the actual wages, sometimes twice as much. So when the government reports the amount the crew costs, are they reporting expenses that are part of the payroll budget, but not actual wages?
Even on minimal crew any boat needs fuel and lube oil by the ton and food for the crew who will not be on a prison menu, even fresh drinking water has to be paid for by reverse osmosis or as a mains metered supply. In many yachting places the weather will dictate that heating or cooling (by electricity) is needed. Never discount the waste disposal cost! Having a basic waste removal in port must incur significant costs.
On the lithium batteries it depends on who made them and what type they are made. Some cars have problems because of all the jostling in vibration making pouches rub together. Pouch Batteries swell when they get heated up. But if they have plenty of room inside their pack so that they're not rubbing each other then that problem goes away. And as long as they have good controlling software for the cooling there is no problem. There is a little bit more to it than that but that's the basic gist.
Most EV batteries have cylindrical or prismatic cells with hard cases. Pouch cells are usually used in quadcopters and the like. Put the battery at a good storage charge, take it offline, and the rest of the equipment on the vessel is more of a risk.
Also those are Lithium Iron. Super stable, you can over heat it in the sun or submerge it in salt water without issue. They don't have the same issues that some batteries have. The downside is that they don't hold as much juice per weight as the other types do; not an issue in a boat where weight isn't as much of an issue as in a Porsche.
@@lienct Yes. If you enough about that boat to know that those are LiFePO4, then they are even less of a worry. To trigger thermal runaway, you would need to put them in a 200 deg C oven.
I would guess that all those batteries are well below the waterline and therefore won't overheat if not charged or discharged rapidly. Saying otherwise is somebody trying to stir up trouble.
Lithium batteries are very stable if you are not charging or discharging them. They can also handle high temperatures in storage. They have low self discharge so they only need a little charging every 6 months or so, if they are not in use. If the crew walks off with everything running, it could be a disaster waiting to happen. If they shut everything down before leaving, that should not be a problem.
Even having the crew walk off with a load running will only risk running the battery down to a low voltage that ruins the cells. At that point it is the monetary value that is at risk. The battery itself will have very little energy in it to cause a problem.
Without insight into how these batteries are integrated and how the tools managing them are configured, I would suggest it's not possible to conclude it's safe to turn them off. The battery system is commonly part of a failsafe system for other critical areas such as hazard/emergency prevention systems, when the main power source isn't available.
@@colbr6733 Assembling a system with that much stored energy would be insanity without a management system overlooking it. It may be integrated into the larger ship systems, but that would be “defense-in-depth“ with the shore power and generators as options.
Yikes. I don't think the governments thought about the costs of maintaining a yacht that they arrest and take over because of the sanctions on their owners. What a mess it puts the governments in the middle of. Why don't the governments that originally took over contact the sanctioning governments for financial assistance, or tell them to come get it.
Would love to hear from the engineer whether the batteries can be fully disconnected. Sometimes this can't be done e.g. when the circuit to monitor the battery is integrated in the battery itself. But even if they can be fully disconnected the batteries will reach a critical point by winter of this year. Also, these are not your household lithium batteries, but high voltage lithium polymer packs. I read comments about LiFePO4 and its safety, but M/Y Luminosity uses lithium polymer technology, which isn't nearly as safe as LiFePO4, but still a solution that is often preferred for power hungry machinery in confined spaces.
These batts will be Li-Ion NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) These can suffer thermal runaway due to the high levels of Cobalt in them. LiFeP04 (LFP) are newer and don't have any Cobalt in them, I very much doubt the batteries in this boat are LFP.
@@dougle03 The manufacturer just mentions lithium-polymer, which could be anything. I agree that NMC is more likely than LifFePO4, especially because LiFePO4 takes up too much space. Let's just wait for the engineers to comment.
@@dougle03 LiFePO4 batteries are the dominate chemistry used on boats. NMC can suffer thermal runaway, but it is usually under high levels of charge and discharge, a condition not found on most boat systems. What I am seeing from some other commenters is that these batteries are actually lithium polymer batteries, the same type used in drones, that can catch fire when allowed to discharge too far.
@@jacquesmertens3369 Lithium polymer batteries are a specific type of lithium battery, most commonly use on drones. They have a well known weakness of having a potential to catch fire if they self discharge too far, as lower charge levels change their internal resistance.
FYI: Luminosity has roughly ~ 5,200 KWh worth of storage. Cost about $2M, plus lots of AC in the battery room. My Houston home uses about 6,000 KWh each month in the summer, so I'd be able to power my house for a month - for $2M+ worth of storage. :)
If you feel a reference for Lithium battery issues might be beneficial, suggest the viewers study the Boeing aircraft of late and their Lithium battery fires.
The batteries are usually most dangerous at a high state of charge and when the batteries have imperfections or damage. If they keep them charged at a lower state of charge there will be no damage to the batteries and virtually no chance of thermal runaway.
totally true. Run the batteries down to 30% and there is very little danger of thermal runaway, also no damage. Lead-acid batteries would be damaged but if they are talking about thermal runaway, then it's obviously lithium-based. A simple search will educate bylo.
Sir, your reporting of Super Yacht news and events is amazing. You have earned my utmost respect. We need more people like yourself, who speak and report the truth. Please keep up the channel.
I agree with your comment. I will say as well that I greatly admire the manner and reporting methods and skills of eSysman. I will even say that his approach helps make the subject interesting to me. Being a "small sailboat man" myself, I find super yachts to be ostentatious at best and ghastly at worst and certainly not a subject I would likely explore absent eSysman's excellent presentation skills. By telling the stories behind the story, he reveals the current-day relevance of these absurd vessels.
@ttnyny Well said. The man certainly knows his business. I'm very glad to have found this page.
Vital topics that are important to know for everyone will be voiced on April 22nd at an international online forum *"Global* *crisis.* *There* *is* *a* *way* *out".* Please join.
Just wondering, are these really lithium batteries like in a Tesla or Lithium Iron Phosphate (Lifpo4)? This is essential to know. Lifpo4 are super safe and suitable for yachting. I do have these on my little 29ft. The price is ridiculous for Lifpo4 but they last 10 years plus and are much safer.
Thermal runaway doesn't occur unless there are faults. And second, if the particular battery cell chemistry is LIFEPO4, thermal runaway doesn't occur at all. (very different to for example the chemistry in Tesla batteries. (these days tesla also have lifepo4 in some cars).
Can you find out what exact type of battery chemistry those batteries are?
Agreed. And also, the problems mentioned would only happen if the batteries go below minimum voltage and a recharge is attempted.
Your first sentence is correct. So long as there is no external problem. LiFePO4 can have thermal runaway, but at much higher temperatures. Tesla is actually the leader in Li-Ion safety. NASA actually used their thermal system as a starting point when designing Li-Ion batteries for use in space on the ISS. NASA wanted a totally passive system rather than relying on a coolant circuit.
Wow mate, absolutely packed full of news this one!
It must be exhausting trying to keep up with all this stuff.
Do you remember the old days, when you used to stroll around a marina on the Côte d’Azur or an Italian port and talk about which boats were visiting. 😄
Who would have thought back then, that a war in Ukraine would affect your channel so much !!
You’ve rolled it it well though.
I’m really pleased for you that your channel is doing so well
Thanks for your comments. Of course we still will do that kind of content, as and when we are in those parts. But now we have the news to do as well, yes things have changed a lot!
It doesn't sound like anyone you spoke to knows much about battery systems.
If they have the largest battery bank afloat on a private yacht, it's reasonable to assume they have a modern battery management system.
This would include thermal shutdown as well as disabling the batteries should the voltage drop below a certain threshold.
The batteries will appear dead at that point but are really in a sort of deep sleep and are reactivated by applying a charge to them.
The only way the batteries would require charging is if they are being drained.
The parasitic drain from the bms is minimal, and scales favorably as battery pack size increases.
On a pack that size, it could sit for a year if there is no load other than the bms itself.
And again, if if was drained it would just enter a sleep mode.
Thermal runaway of the kind you describe is not a thing on dormant batteries.
Love the outtakes... Great job keeping us up to date on yachting news.
0:35 🗣Yes, we finally see those sails up😃
They picked the right area and time of the year to test sails........ the eastern wind comes off the Croatian Coast and in to the Adriatic so fast it whips the water in to the air. It's spectacular.
Asking CNBC for recognition is like asking Americans to drink Bud Light. Ain’t gonna happen😂😂😂
I agree with many of the posts below about the safety of the batteries. The issues you mention, not being monitored and elevated temperature do not create the risk you suggest. You've used a classic clickbait title for this video which is unfortunate.
Those outtakes are so awesome! I'm glad you share those. My day is going about the same way lol!
Your shows are nothing but the best. Keep up the good work.
Most likely the batteries will slowly deplete themselves until shutoff by the bms. Very small chance of fire with Lipos in that non charging situation. However heat on board will severely shorten the life of those batteries and obviously will damage them if we are talking about such high temperatures for extended periods of time.
@@zlmdragon. sunlight shining on the hull. Imagine how hot your car gets when you park in the sun...
@@zlmdragon. you obviously never walked barefeet across a teak deck in the sun in a warm country...
The underwater parts of the hull never get hot, yes. The parts above the water line? Different story...
Thanks my friend.....
Shoe🇺🇸
Always love your bloopers on the end! :):)
Modern lithium battery packs have been built with many safeguards. A ship that is shutdown and not drawing from batteries and not trying to recharge them isn't at much risk within a certain ambiant temperature range. They will gradually lose their charge via chemical reaction, and below a certain poit, they start to be damaged, mostlty in terms of battery capacity instead of fire risk. But eventually, they can start to inflate/burst at which point, big badaboom and Liloo would say.. (the chemicals are stable but when exposed to oxygen, they can self ignite).
Ambiant heat can be a problem but if the batteries are below water line, wouldn't such a section of ship remain cool? If they get too hot, can can start to swell and if they burst, then big badaboom.
Of course, such concentration of batteries means that if one catches on fire, then runaway situation with heat causing neighbouring ones to follow suit.
If salt water comes in, then it will ve a very very bad day due to short circuits. (in such a circumstance, being as discharted as batteries allows would reduce impact).
If the departing crew do a proper total shutdown of ship, and a new crew know how to restart it properly, and the time period in betwteen isn,t too long, then I don't think the danger would be that great. But whoever buys the ship would want to have the batteries tested as part of due diligence to find out if being idle for x time had caused damage to their capacity and ifr they are safe to operate,
Remember, the people in charge of your Lithium batteries... you didn't pay because of sanctions. A mad crew may forget to put all safeguards in place before leaving unpaid.
That ship will become a time bomb if there is no crew around to monitor it. He said the ambient temps in Montenegro will make that yacht very, very hot in no time at all.
I can monitor a litium batrery fire..its just one big never ending lightning bolt isnt it?
It is specifically lithium polymer batteries (used most commonly in drones where weight is paramount) that can, and do, catch fire when discharged too far. The dominate lithium chemistry on boats is lithium iron, because it is inherently stable, and will not catch fire from self discharge. The standard way to store them is to disconnect them after a full charge. Then they should be good stored for 6 months to a year without damage.
Luminosity will be very luminous soon.
They are not lying about those batteries, they have to be looked after carefully when there are so many so close together.
It only needs one to blow and set the rest on fire and once it starts there is no stopping it.
Total bs with the battery scaremongering. There is a battery management system and automatic safety systems. Thermal runaway only happens during incorrect charging or physical damage. High temperatures inside the boat are not high enough to cause thermal runaway.
@1:12 It looks to be part of the Imperial Fleet. I loved when you referred to that in a video a couple of years ago regarding the management company at the time. Can you remind us which boats belong to the Imperial Fleet, or is that not a thing anymore? Love the content and the length of these videos. Keep up the good work. I don't get my yacht news anywhere else.
Amazing video ESYS MAN!
At minimum IMO you should also have a bosun, a second engineer & a crew chef all on rotation and two stewardesses as a minimum to maintain any large yacht.....regards Jon
So Wise , Thank You.
Could the quoted monthly cost of keeping Alfa Nero crewed include more than just salaries alone? It's possible they are counting provisions for the crew, fuel for generators, as well as cleaning and maintenance supplies. I wouldn't be surprised if the government has taken out some kind of insurance as well. Those premiums could also contribute to the quoted costs.
I wonder why the designers of M/Y Luminosity chose LiPo batteries instead of LFP. Tradeoffs in each case I'm sure, but eliminating the possibility of thermal runaway would, I hope, be a very high priority for yacht engineers.
the salary explanation makes real sense... there might be some type of extras as well...insurance or whatever
Oh eSysman great video as usual but those outtakes at the end!😂 😅 Just priceless. Especially amidst all this talk of millions and millions of euros or dollars for yachts. Puts "priceless" in perspective 😊😅❤
12:00 - 36 tons of Samsung Galaxy levels of explodey fun just waiting to happen. Whatever genius decided to go with Li-Ion and not Li-FePo needs his head checked...
One of the Oligarchs favorite law firms, Dentons of London specializes in keeping sanctioned peoples properties from being seized. They have many ways to circumnavigate the laws and sanctions.
Getting around sanctions seems to be working as recent reports say that just in the last year sanctioned Russian billionaires made over a half Trillion dollars. A lot of that is by selling sanctioned oil and rare earth minerals.
I suspect that CNBC might have some sort of service agreement/subscription-type thing with Reuters that let’s CNBC use whatever Reuters’ photos as long as CNBC keeps their payments to Reuters up-to-date.
Your guy is overstating the case with the lithium battery situation. They do not like staying at full charge. They prefer to be stored at 40-60% of capacity. This is why they tell you to charge your new laptop before you use it and have to run all the updates. In regular use it is best to keep the battery charged between 20-80% unless you plan to use it heavily and want the full capacity.
As far as safety goes, each individual cell in the battery can be thought of as a roll of the dice. A 10,000,000-sided die. That’s about the standard failure rate of mass-manufactured cells. A battery that big will have a lot of cells, but not 10 million. Unlike lead-acid batteries, lithium doesn’t lose charge quickly. Less than a percent or two a month.
The main concern with letting the battery run low is damaging weaker cells’ capacity if one or more fall below a critical voltage, 2.5v for Li-Ion, 2v for LiFePO4. So, if held at a reasonable storage charge, the main concern for the battery would be keeping an eye on the monetary investment, rather than safety. Twice-daily tracking would be simply to spot a trend in weak cells so that they can be swapped out before they drag down their neighbors. If not kept fully charged near 100% for an extended period of time, I would not worry about thermal runaway or fire.
Oh, and 40 C is nothing for the cells. That’s on the high end of normal operating temperature, like what you would preheat them to if you wanted maximum performance out of them. Thermal runaway temperature is 130-200 C, depending upon the chemistry. This happens when the cell has an internal short from dendritic growth, such as can happen if you keep them at 100% charge all the time, beat them to death regularly, or some external source of heat is applied.
🙋♂️THANKS ESYSMAN,AND WILLIE FOR SHARING YOUR SHOW TODAY 😎💚💚💚
Thanks..well done. That is one scary battery story.
Not really, just a scary headline
@@CanadianTexaninLiguria It will be a headline, when it causes an environmental disaster. Ironic, isn't it?
I didn't know I needed yacht news until I found this channel. 😂
Your original comments about the erroneous picture was spot on - Gell-Mann Effect in action, though.
I hope to one day receive a 5-point award! 😂 There has not been ONE video I have not learned from and enjoyed on this channel!
Brilliant channel.
Another awesome shirt e
The battery can be charged to 80% and will be able to survive 40-50 C no problem for months.
I love your videos.
Lithium Batteries - It's Great News for the City/Port - Send a crew to Maintain the Batteries while use them as a Power Bank for the Local Grid. It can be Done. and off course - all works added to the Ships Bill... Thanks Mate.
Yep, I can confirm there's 13 x 4 weekly periods in a year. This is standard in a rental.
Just wanted to add that eSysman's technical info surprises this 25 year IT pro with his accuracy.
All media seems to completely bugger up communicating accurate info regarding technical matters. Mainstream and social.
I've worked inside many data centers, cages, and closets. And designed and maintained various UPS systems. These systems have many parallels to the type of systems he was reporting regarding the concerns around that huge Li-Ion power bank and the concerns regarding damage to the system and serious safety risks.
Dude knows his stuff. 👍
M/Y ACE?
🔋Most non-phosphate lithium batteries (the dangerous ones) can comfortably handle ambient active charging temps of around 45˚C, and safe resting temps of 60˚C.
LifePo lithium is a safer option - but not by a great margin.
I’m pretty sure a yacht like this would use LiFePO4 cells, which are pretty safe unless physically damaged.
@@dbrophy But she probably doesn't. She uses LiPo instead, according to the manufacturer. Would be good to hear the engineer's comment on this.
great content as always,those batteries just wow
Unless the batteries are over charged or discharged at a high current, there shouldn't be any problems. I have several LifeP04 batteries in my camper van and I'm not the least bit worried leaving it for 6 months while I'm in the Med.
Not lithium though.
@@wendygerrish4964 They are lithium batteries. Newer chemistry LiPO4 batts are very safe.
The scuttlebutt is that these are lithium polymer batteries, which just seems crazy for safety reasons, and why the majority of boat energy storage is LiFePO4.
@@wendygerrish4964
LiFePO4 batteries are commonly known as lithium iron batteries, and are considered to be one of the safest lithium chemistries. There are a lot of different types of batteries that use lithium, and fall under the term "lithium batteries," so they are often confused with each other. They vary a lot in safety, so many people attribute to one lithium chemistry the qualities of another.
thank you Sir !
0:43 The yacht is AL LUSAIL. Actualy the most beautiful mega yacht in the world.
Thank you for a wonderful show. And that's for introducing me to a world 🌎 of sailing.
I'm still watching the full show. 👏👍
Lithium thermal events typically happen when quickly charging or discharging. If the packs are simply left idle and deplete, well an empty lithium pack is not a hazard, you can just toss them in the trash bin at that point w/o risk. A fault could occur on its own, but the battery pack design should be able to isolate it and I would hope an automated firefighting system is on board.
36 toñne of closely packed lithium batteries in a ship hold , left unattended is not something to be taken lightly, with t would only take one to fail,
Al Lusail, I Was lucky to work on the interior design at March & White.
Fabulous.
I will never watch CNBC again! What a disrespectful 2bit mickey mouse operation!
"My car is on fire, please hurry."
"Nonsense, it's simply having a thermal event."
😅😅 🔥
This can happen more and more. As I mentioned before, more research needs to be done on these batteries because of their issues. And they are dangerous in other ways to the environment. Something for thought. We trade in toxic gases for even more dangerous things like this! We’re not going forward we’re just making the same mistakes over and over.
Imagine that CNBC getting something wrong and not admitting it.
Thanks for covering the cost of the crew. I am now giving up hope of buying a SY
i've heard descriptions of thermal runaway fires in cars. with the so-much-larger battery pack in that vessel a fire would produce a so-much-larger disaster. which brings us back to my previously-suggested ''bills not paid? tow it out and scuttle it'' risk-mitigation strategy.
This is why more research needs to be conducted on these batteries. NO electrical vehicles should ever be produced or powered without research on them. Very dangerous. And we’re just going to do it just because…
Lithium battery for heated gloves recently caused a hotel fire.
Let's hope that the shipyard has planned for the removal of the LI batteries. One would think it's cheaper to store them safely than to risk a potential fire. Please keep the bloopers!! I was not expecting that. Too funny!
The battery is going to have a battery management system in place. So long as they are maintained at a good storage voltage, they are probably going to be safer kept onboard. The battery management system will look out for trends in the individual cells that indicate that a cell needs to be taken out of service and replaced. Checking on them once or twice a day is about looking for those trends. That could be done online. The liquid-fueled engines and damage from vermin chewing on cables are far more of a concern.
Disconnect the batteries and there is no risk
Luminosity is not in a shipyard but a marina in Tivat, where the amazing disappearing owner sent her to avoid sanctions when she still at Benetti yard when purchased. Luminosity is a beautiful ship, full of cutting edge technology, but seems to be cursed, her first owner never took delivery and the second has abandoned her and is denying ownership, as if this wonderful yacht was a scrap car.
The Antiguan gov quoted the amount for domestic press. The East Caribbean Dollar is 37 US cents…
I caught that Willy Everlearn near the end. That's cute.
Batteries: i can’t imagine LiIon (NMC, NCA) batteries on a boat. Usually LIFePo4 batteries are used that are not prone to thermal runnaway. The only disadvantage is the slightly higher weight which is not so important on boats than on cars / aircrafts
Al Lithium based batteries have a much lower self discharge than lead acid ones. In a „storage charge“ setting you can leave them 2 years without degrading, if properly cut of from any power consumer.
Following the channel since 2018. I like the current video's but must say it gets to much alike. Videos made like before covid visiting a harbour filming some yachts and just tell a lot of info about these yachts or how things work was very interesting. Maybe you should do a few again every 2 or 3 weeks. I must say this video had quite some different SUPERYACHTS stories, info and was close to what you did before.
A lot of comments regarding your take on the risk of fire caused by the batteries... Any chance you could expand as they seem quite well informed... keep "em coming mate 👉🇬🇧👈👉❗
I would expect a super yacht to be using LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries. They are safest chemistry and the most common in yachts. They have very little chance of thermal runaway, and that it may happen at 195c and above.
Yeah, totally ill informed clickbait. These type of rack mount batteries are designed to be left unattended and are maintenance free for years. They have automatic protection against over-charge and discharge.
Except that this yacht uses lithium polymer instead.
Saw “MV Archimedes” yesterday 4/19/23 have pictures
for batterys think Ambri liquid metal grid scaled startup orig.from MIT Prof.
Ambri batterys do not suffer from thermal runnaway .
5 months no pay, and they're still there?
or are they waiting till the outstanding pay tops the value of the ship, so they can claim ownership and sell it?
YaY, Supper Yacht seize News!!
Wow captain and chief is a better gig than I thought. And I assume that room & board is free while onboard. And yet the merchant marine can't manage a decent salary.
The new self-sinking yachts are beautiful.
The lithium batteries would just slowly degrade especially if there is some power drawn. I don’t see a risk of fire as this normally happens exactly in opposite situations: top charge, high current draw or mechanical stress.
They may just die… who cares?
What’s sad is that one could have built hundreds or thousands of small electric cars with these. Or some other useful things.
What is underwater on the bow of the Feadship 1011? Is that a sub docking port?
Sir, you mispelled Fraser, and got the size wrong. She was lengthened by 15 metres during her 2021 refit and is now 89 metres in length.
She wasn't lengthened 15 meters. She was lengthened 6 meters. From 83 to 89 meters. Originally an Amels 272.
Will those batteries it depends what type of lithium ion battery it is.
The safest type of lithium ion battery is lithium ion phosphate, this will not have a thermal run away, but the other more high performance types can.
And what you said about always keeping the battery fully charged is exactly the wrong thing to do. The best thing to do for battery health with any type of Lithium ion batteries is to regularly cycle them slowly. So slowly charge and slowly discharge, but not 100% full and not 0% empty just cycle them from 10%-90%.
The spot the yacht game is a quality move. I have no clue, and I'm very happy you'll be telling me her sexiness's name in a few minutes!
Someone is implementing advanced news production techniques to keep the intrigue going. I think you are doing teasers too eh? 😉
Are these lithium ion or lifepo4?
Regarding salaries, when a non marine company that offers benefits such as health insurance or a pension, the company pays significantly more than the actual wages, sometimes twice as much. So when the government reports the amount the crew costs, are they reporting expenses that are part of the payroll budget, but not actual wages?
Even on minimal crew any boat needs fuel and lube oil by the ton and food for the crew who will not be on a prison menu, even fresh drinking water has to be paid for by reverse osmosis or as a mains metered supply. In many yachting places the weather will dictate that heating or cooling (by electricity) is needed. Never discount the waste disposal cost! Having a basic waste removal in port must incur significant costs.
On the lithium batteries it depends on who made them and what type they are made. Some cars have problems because of all the jostling in vibration making pouches rub together. Pouch Batteries swell when they get heated up. But if they have plenty of room inside their pack so that they're not rubbing each other then that problem goes away. And as long as they have good controlling software for the cooling there is no problem. There is a little bit more to it than that but that's the basic gist.
Lithium batteries(especially the newer ones) are extremely stable unless they have a short somewhere. Just disconnect them and they'll be fine.
Most EV batteries have cylindrical or prismatic cells with hard cases. Pouch cells are usually used in quadcopters and the like. Put the battery at a good storage charge, take it offline, and the rest of the equipment on the vessel is more of a risk.
Also those are Lithium Iron. Super stable, you can over heat it in the sun or submerge it in salt water without issue. They don't have the same issues that some batteries have. The downside is that they don't hold as much juice per weight as the other types do; not an issue in a boat where weight isn't as much of an issue as in a Porsche.
@@lienct Yes. If you enough about that boat to know that those are LiFePO4, then they are even less of a worry. To trigger thermal runaway, you would need to put them in a 200 deg C oven.
The batteries aren't a hazard if depleted. Just run the A/C on battery power until they are drained.
I would guess that all those batteries are well below the waterline and therefore won't overheat if not charged or discharged rapidly. Saying otherwise is somebody trying to stir up trouble.
I’m giving a thumb up just for the out takes 🤪🤣🤓
It sounds like "Luminosity" could very well live up to the name under the right circumstances.
looks like the Minnow to me.
E Sysman's great great Grandfather was Capt. of the Minnow!
Thanks
Time Stamp 08:25. Chief Officer final salary you accidentally put GBP £ not US$
Lithium batteries are very stable if you are not charging or discharging them. They can also handle high temperatures in storage. They have low self discharge so they only need a little charging every 6 months or so, if they are not in use. If the crew walks off with everything running, it could be a disaster waiting to happen. If they shut everything down before leaving, that should not be a problem.
Even having the crew walk off with a load running will only risk running the battery down to a low voltage that ruins the cells. At that point it is the monetary value that is at risk. The battery itself will have very little energy in it to cause a problem.
Without insight into how these batteries are integrated and how the tools managing them are configured, I would suggest it's not possible to conclude it's safe to turn them off. The battery system is commonly part of a failsafe system for other critical areas such as hazard/emergency prevention systems, when the main power source isn't available.
@@colbr6733 Assembling a system with that much stored energy would be insanity without a management system overlooking it. It may be integrated into the larger ship systems, but that would be “defense-in-depth“ with the shore power and generators as options.
Agreed except for the temperature: Li-ion batteries do not like high temperatures; those will cause them to degrade more rapidly.
@@Markle2k Who is paying for shore power? No owner and shortly no crew present.
Yikes. I don't think the governments thought about the costs of maintaining a yacht that they arrest and take over because of the sanctions on their owners.
What a mess it puts the governments in the middle of. Why don't the governments that originally took over contact the sanctioning governments for financial assistance, or tell them to come get it.
Would love to hear from the engineer whether the batteries can be fully disconnected. Sometimes this can't be done e.g. when the circuit to monitor the battery is integrated in the battery itself. But even if they can be fully disconnected the batteries will reach a critical point by winter of this year.
Also, these are not your household lithium batteries, but high voltage lithium polymer packs. I read comments about LiFePO4 and its safety, but M/Y Luminosity uses lithium polymer technology, which isn't nearly as safe as LiFePO4, but still a solution that is often preferred for power hungry machinery in confined spaces.
These batts will be Li-Ion NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) These can suffer thermal runaway due to the high levels of Cobalt in them. LiFeP04 (LFP) are newer and don't have any Cobalt in them, I very much doubt the batteries in this boat are LFP.
@@dougle03 The manufacturer just mentions lithium-polymer, which could be anything. I agree that NMC is more likely than LifFePO4, especially because LiFePO4 takes up too much space.
Let's just wait for the engineers to comment.
@@dougle03 LiFePO4 batteries are the dominate chemistry used on boats. NMC can suffer thermal runaway, but it is usually under high levels of charge and discharge, a condition not found on most boat systems. What I am seeing from some other commenters is that these batteries are actually lithium polymer batteries, the same type used in drones, that can catch fire when allowed to discharge too far.
@@jacquesmertens3369
Lithium polymer batteries are a specific type of lithium battery, most commonly use on drones. They have a well known weakness of having a potential to catch fire if they self discharge too far, as lower charge levels change their internal resistance.
@@GoCoyote You're not familiar with the topic, therefore please don't spoil the comment section. Thank you.
FYI: Luminosity has roughly ~ 5,200 KWh worth of storage. Cost about $2M, plus lots of AC in the battery room. My Houston home uses about 6,000 KWh each month in the summer, so I'd be able to power my house for a month - for $2M+ worth of storage. :)
What? An average dutch household uses less than 2500 KWh a year😮
@@arnoldv3963 Air Conditioning! Thankfully, only about $0.10 / KWh or it would be a massive monthly bill.
My home here in Germany used 5100 kWh last year, but that includes charging my car. Without that, if be closer to the Dutch figure...
@@realulli The difference in living 2500 KM's North of Houston.
If you feel a reference for Lithium battery issues might be beneficial, suggest the viewers study the Boeing aircraft of late and their Lithium battery fires.
Different type of lithium batteries. It's like comparing the explosive potential of gas and water, they are both liquid!
Lipo batteries that are used in the Marine industry are very advanced. The have self monitoring and protection. I wouldn't worry about it.
Monaco yacht show- is that in September?
4:00 i can't even imagine being rich enough to have a superyacht habit - but it must be nice
Those wages also include Leave pay - rotation
That was in the video
I was on a cruise that stopped in Nassau a few weeks ago, Kismet was docked there, it looks great in person
36 tons of batteries is about 72 Tesla S batteries in weight.
Sure those batteries are the volatile type? Might be LFP, they are more stable.
The batteries are usually most dangerous at a high state of charge and when the batteries have imperfections or damage. If they keep them charged at a lower state of charge there will be no damage to the batteries and virtually no chance of thermal runaway.
not true it all, a simple search on lithium battery mx would refute but this is youtube so keep educating justin 😂
totally true. Run the batteries down to 30% and there is very little danger of thermal runaway, also no damage. Lead-acid batteries would be damaged but if they are talking about thermal runaway, then it's obviously lithium-based. A simple search will educate bylo.