To be fair, the gold in the two-tone watches doesn't represent more than a small fraction of their total value. Same for full gold watches, it's not bullion you're paying for, it's prestige. Also, the gold capping on the Tudor model is not a plating, which is often 20 microns thick, it's a mechanically-bonded layer at least ten times thicker than plating.
I own two JLC's, I'm a big fan but I don't think I'd buy them new, ever. They absolutely tank in value. My duoface Reverso 1 year old and unworn for a 35% discount below retail. The Polaris Chronograph 2 years old and almost 50% below retail. That's a huge amount between the two.
Model matters, though.I bought my Reverso Tribute in red before the price hike and, at the time, all the chrono24 options were about 2k over MSRP or more. Even right, now the cheapest used one is just 1k under the new 10k MSRP.
I agree with buying most watches gently used. That being said I have a couple I bought new (Speedmaster back in 2020 was only 5k back then , and a Cartier Tank Large Quartz for 2,950 last year). In the long run I’ve done fine there but I don’t have any plans to sell anyway.
@@markhor1988 it’s a great little watch. I have it on a taupe strap from Delugs. Makes for actually a pretty good casual everyday watch if you want. For reference it’ looks good even if you have a medium sized wrist. My wrist is 7 inches.
Love the idea/concept of the video! This helps highlights undervalued watches. I am doing a little research on a undervalued dressy Patek for less than $30k
I own the WSSA0037 (ADLC bezel) and owned the all-black ADLC version (WSSA0039), and these really address the scratching concern, if those variants are appealing. 😊
@watchcharts folks These numbers must take into account 4 factors for it to be relevant: 1. MSRP is one thing. But do the ADs give discounts? If so, it’s is new and with a discount. And a buyer may possibly also get spend history credits frok the AD 2) what is the year on warranty card of the preowned watch? It is only relevant to compare new from the AD and new form the secondary market. 3) what is the condition of the preowned watch? 4) does the preowned watch come with the full set or not. So unless you compare apples and apples, it is impossible to determine “value”. We have no way of knowing what data you are using to draw any real conclusions from your analysis. Best wishes from Singapore 🇸🇬
To me if you have the resources and love a watch just buy it and e joy it, for investment, stay away from watches, just buy real estate at depreciating value and fix them up or buy an index fund.
I’d almost never pay more than 40% of the MSRP for a Cartier timepiece and this watch fits squarely in that philosophy if not lower. I can’t believe TUDOR used or uses silver hands and hour indices on their 2-tone dive watch… It looks cheap, unrefined, undignified and cobbled together… I’m not sure as to which super genius pulled trigger on that look but in the immortal words of Donald Trump “You’re fired!”
@@Ktrb it depends because sensible people won't buy a watch if they need to stretch their budget. They will earn and save and get their true love brand new....
Nice vid, but again - incorrect use of value retention. If you list value retention at -34.8%, what you should actually state is ‘value retention 65.2%’. Would really add to your credibility going forward.
I think both statements are equivalent, but we believe our decision to frame value retention as a percentage above/below retail works better when it comes to watches that see secondary market appreciation. For example, while it makes intuitive sense to say that a watch holds 65.2% of its value on the secondary market, it's not as obvious what it means if a watch were to hold 165.2% of its value. Instead, if we say "watch x trades for 34.8% below retail", and "watch y trades for 65.2% above retail", these statements are easier to understand in our opinion.
To be fair, the gold in the two-tone watches doesn't represent more than a small fraction of their total value. Same for full gold watches, it's not bullion you're paying for, it's prestige. Also, the gold capping on the Tudor model is not a plating, which is often 20 microns thick, it's a mechanically-bonded layer at least ten times thicker than plating.
I own two JLC's, I'm a big fan but I don't think I'd buy them new, ever. They absolutely tank in value. My duoface Reverso 1 year old and unworn for a 35% discount below retail. The Polaris Chronograph 2 years old and almost 50% below retail. That's a huge amount between the two.
@@ultimatedouchebag6760 Ha! The name most definitely checks out 👍
Model matters, though.I bought my Reverso Tribute in red before the price hike and, at the time, all the chrono24 options were about 2k over MSRP or more. Even right, now the cheapest used one is just 1k under the new 10k MSRP.
My kids can have all my Rolexes, but my Reverso Duoface Tribute goes in the coffin with me.
@@g43654 I saw all your trash Rolex at pawn stars.
I agree with buying most watches gently used. That being said I have a couple I bought new (Speedmaster back in 2020 was only 5k back then , and a Cartier Tank Large Quartz for 2,950 last year). In the long run I’ve done fine there but I don’t have any plans to sell anyway.
I’m thinking of buying a Tank Must in Large. Around 3.1k. How u liking it?
@@markhor1988 it’s a great little watch. I have it on a taupe strap from Delugs. Makes for actually a pretty good casual everyday watch if you want. For reference it’ looks good even if you have a medium sized wrist. My wrist is 7 inches.
Love the idea/concept of the video! This helps highlights undervalued watches. I am doing a little research on a undervalued dressy Patek for less than $30k
Just discovered your channel. You guys are doing tremendous research and sharing this invaluable advice to us hobby horologists.
Curious to know if uve considered the discount you generally offered while buying these watches new not many are really sold at MSRP
Great video! It gave me some interesting ideas I haven’t thought of so thanks for the inspiration.
Perfect choices and your delivery is on point ❤
Great format.
I always use your website online but didn't know you had a you tube channel, nice.
I think one thing that is overlooked for the new santos is that the scratch magnet bezel can be replaced pretty affordably.
I own the WSSA0037 (ADLC bezel) and owned the all-black ADLC version (WSSA0039), and these really address the scratching concern, if those variants are appealing. 😊
Thank you. Excellent comparisons and considerations.
Boggles my mind people over retail for mass produced stainless steel watches when you get can high horology like Lange and VC for 30% off
Well said and timely subject.
What about Grand Seiko?
Great video.
@watchcharts folks
These numbers must take into account 4 factors for it to be relevant:
1. MSRP is one thing. But do the ADs give discounts? If so, it’s is new and with a discount. And a buyer may possibly also get spend history credits frok the AD
2) what is the year on warranty card of the preowned watch? It is only relevant to compare new from the AD and new form the secondary market.
3) what is the condition of the preowned watch?
4) does the preowned watch come with the full set or not.
So unless you compare apples and apples, it is impossible to determine “value”.
We have no way of knowing what data you are using to draw any real conclusions from your analysis.
Best wishes from Singapore 🇸🇬
I like 79220N........very collectible
How do you feel about the Cartier Tank Must ?😂
To me if you have the resources and love a watch just buy it and e joy it, for investment, stay away from watches, just buy real estate at depreciating value and fix them up or buy an index fund.
I’d almost never pay more than 40% of the MSRP for a Cartier timepiece and this watch fits squarely in that philosophy if not lower.
I can’t believe TUDOR used or uses silver hands and hour indices on their 2-tone dive watch… It looks cheap, unrefined, undignified and cobbled together… I’m not sure as to which super genius pulled trigger on that look but in the immortal words of Donald Trump “You’re fired!”
Definitely not true. If you truly love the watch, buying bnew is the one way to go.
It's like marrying your first love 😂
@@Ktrb it depends because sensible people won't buy a watch if they need to stretch their budget. They will earn and save and get their true love brand new....
Buying a Watch for Multiple Thousands that loses some of its Worth in the Thousands hurts to see.
Nice vid, but again - incorrect use of value retention.
If you list value retention at -34.8%, what you should actually state is ‘value retention 65.2%’.
Would really add to your credibility going forward.
I think both statements are equivalent, but we believe our decision to frame value retention as a percentage above/below retail works better when it comes to watches that see secondary market appreciation.
For example, while it makes intuitive sense to say that a watch holds 65.2% of its value on the secondary market, it's not as obvious what it means if a watch were to hold 165.2% of its value.
Instead, if we say "watch x trades for 34.8% below retail", and "watch y trades for 65.2% above retail", these statements are easier to understand in our opinion.