Is this just me that loves the nosey mids of the deluxe reverb? Now THATS why I always played with the mids on 9 on a twin reverb without knowing about the technical stuff!!! Thanks for the amazing videos, bro! ❤️❤️❤️
A lot of players like more mids than 6.8k to get to a more Marshall feel or a jtm. They either replace the mid resistor with a 10 or 16k one or use a 50k pot. As you said the mid pot can be used to bypass the tonestack. However, even though one might think that might lead to more of a Tweed sound it actually muddies it by bringing too many low mids into the mix. Also, the tone controls are interactive. Since putting in a mid control on my brownface Fender 63 Vibroverb (on the Normal channel) i found it is not as useful as i hoped. I aimed to get more 800-1000Hz into the mix but i got more of 400-600. Taking the bass down didnt fix it either. Ive come to the conclusion that i like the Bright channel (vibrato) better which has a 10k resistor. An EQ pedal will be acting as a fine tuner from now on.
Mesa Boogie do a similar thing on the clean channel tone stacks - 25kΩ mid pot gives an extra mid and gain push (they use sometimes use a 0.022µF cap which shifts the mid frequency down a little but doesn't change the range and depth of adjustment compared to 0.047µF). 100kΩ mid pot is a little too much for my taste but thats just me. Mesa a linear taper pot there too, which works great, makes black face range conveniently below 12 o'clock and makes dialing in 6.8k a little more intuitive!
Ah, but it's a 100K A pot, so 100K is at 5:00. 50K is a little over 3:00. 25K is about 2:00. So it has a wide range of really useful settings with only the extreme being, well, extreme.
Thank you so much for this! Just did this “twin mid pot at 5” mod to the normal channel of my 1964 deluxe reverb. Then did the robrob normal channel reverb mod. Very nice addition as I rarely used the normal channel when it was stock.
The power rail dropping resistors do change, and I am not at all against swapping those resistors on the rail around on some Fender amps if a player does not like the factory sound. I had a girl that commissioned two Deluxe Reverb amps, the first one 1x12 and then a 1x15 deluxe reverb, after which she said she just hated the Deluxe Reverb. A little preamp power rail tweak a concentric pot for a mids control, and she is quite happy with them now. A dual 250KA taper concentric pot with a 11K or a 12K resistor between the outer terminals on one pot makes one half of it into a 10K A taper pot, more or less, for the mids. The taper does change a tiny bit. I actually have the 1x15 now, so she kept the 1x12.
Wow! 1.2k for Mids attenuates the entire frequency range. I’ve used a linear pot instead, either 25k or 50k. Frankly I think that 25K is plenty. I don’t need to more or less bypass the tone stack; however, you might! Lyle - your focus the taper of different pots isn’t a new idea for me, but you address it in such a practical “this is what it will sound like” way. Good stuff! Have you experimented with a Dwell pot in place of the 1 Meg resistor at the start of the AB763 circuit? You need to have a nice, loud reverb tank but a Dwell pot gives you another range of reverb effects. (The 6G15 reverb unit had a Dwell pot - that’s where I got the idea)
I don't find that Dwell is all that useful in a circuit driven by a 12AT7, though it can appear to be given how long and dark the decay of many modern reverb tanks are. Rather than drill and add another pot/knob I prefer to change out the tank for one that sounds right without the Dwell circuit.
Interesting that you use a 100k. I typically use a 10k on a dr or pr to match the twin pot. I’m not interested in defeating tone stack though. I will keep this in my back pocket if someone asks for more gain.
Using an eq at the input of the amp isn't the same as altering frequency response with the amps' tone controls, * which have a different kind of resonance,,*.
You are still at the mercy of your tone controls. If you use an EQ pedal the output might be enough for the boosted frequencies to forward conduct on the first stage. That could be a good thing though.
When making changes to a tone stack, do you run simulations on the Tone Stack Calculator from Duncan Amps first or do you just do trial and error experimentation?
I use the Duncan thing and ltspice when working on a new design. But for tweaking existing designs, especially "Fender/Marshall" TMBs I pretty much know everything that's going on and if I want more X I know what effects that. So it can be faster to put in a pot and twiddle till my ears are happy.
how common is to reduce the mids on a deluxe reverb? I got a 68 CRD and a SRri. i set the mids around 5/6 on the super. i found the 68 crd has a but too much midrange and googling how to reduce them i found your video. will the 68 crd it sound good with reduced mids? Thanks
Would adding a mid pot give it more of a fatter and more marshall type sound? I have a 64 custom deluxe reverb that I’m battling with when I use an overdrive pedal. Because of the scooped mids. Any suggestions? I have changed out the original speaker to a celestion creamback 65 to get a smoother more overdrive friendly type of sound.
you had mentioned kendrick blackframes not being a suitable speaker for super reverbs because of 1 inch voice coil . they sound fine in my amp but im always open to try new things . you also said you put wgs g10c speakers in a super reverb , those speakers weigh 7 lb .. how do they sound
Great topic, thank you..I used to like to replace the 6800 (on the bass pot)resistor in my ProReverb with a 10k. I played it pretty clean and liked the mid boost.
Wow I've always wondered about this. Thanks for the explanation. I built an AB763 Deluxe Reverb clone kit as a head to run through Marshall 4x12 like a psychopath. I've always thought about adding a mid pot. I'm gonna play with that 6.8k like you mentioned and see what happens.
hi I absolutely love your channel ! You meant to say 100k" linear" not "taper"..10% tolerance pot? correct? Where do you source these? also when you add the mid tone pot to deluxe reverb do you leave in or take out R21 6.8k resistor? thank you for your help
Thanks, and yeah, I meant I replace the 100K linear with a 10% audio 100K. CTS and Alpha both make good ones. I remove the 6.8K when I put in the mids pot. It is wired as a variable resistor and replaces the 6.8K.
Anyone here have any advise for me. I just bought brand new 65 reissue super reverb. I'm not tech savvy. I don't know a tech that lives in chattanooga. I'm searching. I'm struggling to get the super to react to my pedals. I've tried all eq combinations lol. Including setting them to where they just start to work. But every overdrive I put on. It sounds terrible I mean ten times worse than through my hot rod deluxe. The hot rod deluxe is a way darker amp anyways. I want to keep the amp. What can I do or have done to the amp to make it except overdrives better? I appreciate anyone who takes the time to respond
I love this kind of info, I have a 1976 (AA270) silver face Vibrolux that I've owned for 10 years and I want to know everything about it. I hope you are doing a series, that'd be awesome 😁👍
Saw a video from Pete Thorn today that talked about the Hiwatt 103 and its 100 ohm mid pot that gives it its huge midrange, plus added drive in that range. I hadn't realized the the pot could add that much added character to a specific range of the amp. He also stated that the Hiwatt was basically a fender on steroids. Is it that easy to mod an amp's character with the pots?
I had a 1.5k resistor so I tried tagging it to the 6.8k which gave me close to 1.2k. I like the sound of the 6.8k better. I am working on a custom single channel deluxe reverb without trem and a mid pot so this really helped me to understand what I need to do for a mid pot. I may run a the pot in series with a resistor to set the mid point at 6.8k. Thanks!
I just thought of it. Wouldn't it be easy to swap the pot out with a push pull pot? When pulled, it could bypass the pot and use solely the 6.8k resistor and when pushed, the pot is activated? I will likely do that in my build. I would have the wires running to the front panel anyways, may as well do something with them. Thanks again!
@@PsionicAudio Yes, but I like to experiment :) if I find myself using the variable pot more than the resistor, I will repurpose the push pull switch for something different. I am not going to make a front panel for the amp until I am done tweaking. I drew up a PCB for the single channel Deluxe Reverb over the last couple of days. I have that pretty much wrapped up. I will hopefully build this soon! t
Very interesting topic! Anyone know if the same thing is happening on a Princeton? They always seem to have less mids than the Deluxe Reverb, to my ears.
The Deluxe Reverb and Princeton have the exact same preamp (one channel only on the Princeton) with the same tone stack. But different voltages and very different output sections, speakers, and cabs.
I would not drill an original ‘60s chassis or run the signal to the polarity switch. A tech could easily put a trimpot in place of the mids resistor inside, but it would not be adjustable on the fly.
@@PsionicAudio and also, just to make sure I’m understanding this video, you’re adding a resistor to the Mids pot so that on the low end of the Mids spectrum, it sounds more like a Twin Reverb, but once you get past 5.5 (or noon) it sounds like a usual Super/Deluxe Reverb?
The pots are all interactive. If you turn the mids up, you have less bass response. More mids is good if you play a Les Paul, but if you are playing a Strat you want more bass.
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Is this just me that loves the nosey mids of the deluxe reverb? Now THATS why I always played with the mids on 9 on a twin reverb without knowing about the technical stuff!!! Thanks for the amazing videos, bro! ❤️❤️❤️
Nope. My tmb on a twin is treble at 10, mid at 7-8 and bass at zero (one).
@@sirbergersworth Jerry settings
A lot of players like more mids than 6.8k to get to a more Marshall feel or a jtm. They either replace the mid resistor with a 10 or 16k one or use a 50k pot. As you said the mid pot can be used to bypass the tonestack. However, even though one might think that might lead to more of a Tweed sound it actually muddies it by bringing too many low mids into the mix. Also, the tone controls are interactive. Since putting in a mid control on my brownface Fender 63 Vibroverb (on the Normal channel) i found it is not as useful as i hoped. I aimed to get more 800-1000Hz into the mix but i got more of 400-600. Taking the bass down didnt fix it either. Ive come to the conclusion that i like the Bright channel (vibrato) better which has a 10k resistor. An EQ pedal will be acting as a fine tuner from now on.
Mesa Boogie do a similar thing on the clean channel tone stacks - 25kΩ mid pot gives an extra mid and gain push (they use sometimes use a 0.022µF cap which shifts the mid frequency down a little but doesn't change the range and depth of adjustment compared to 0.047µF). 100kΩ mid pot is a little too much for my taste but thats just me. Mesa a linear taper pot there too, which works great, makes black face range conveniently below 12 o'clock and makes dialing in 6.8k a little more intuitive!
Ah, but it's a 100K A pot, so 100K is at 5:00. 50K is a little over 3:00. 25K is about 2:00. So it has a wide range of really useful settings with only the extreme being, well, extreme.
Killer info! Now I want a mids knob on everything!
Thank you so much for this! Just did this “twin mid pot at 5” mod to the normal channel of my 1964 deluxe reverb. Then did the robrob normal channel reverb mod. Very nice addition as I rarely used the normal channel when it was stock.
The power rail dropping resistors do change, and I am not at all against swapping those resistors on the rail around on some Fender amps if a player does not like the factory sound. I had a girl that commissioned two Deluxe Reverb amps, the first one 1x12 and then a 1x15 deluxe reverb, after which she said she just hated the Deluxe Reverb. A little preamp power rail tweak a concentric pot for a mids control, and she is quite happy with them now. A dual 250KA taper concentric pot with a 11K or a 12K resistor between the outer terminals on one pot makes one half of it into a 10K A taper pot, more or less, for the mids. The taper does change a tiny bit. I actually have the 1x15 now, so she kept the 1x12.
please , can you give the schematic abut this mod ?
Wow! 1.2k for Mids attenuates the entire frequency range. I’ve used a linear pot instead, either 25k or 50k. Frankly I think that 25K is plenty. I don’t need to more or less bypass the tone stack; however, you might!
Lyle - your focus the taper of different pots isn’t a new idea for me, but you address it in such a practical “this is what it will sound like” way. Good stuff!
Have you experimented with a Dwell pot in place of the 1 Meg resistor at the start of the AB763 circuit? You need to have a nice, loud reverb tank but a Dwell pot gives you another range of reverb effects. (The 6G15 reverb unit had a Dwell pot - that’s where I got the idea)
I don't find that Dwell is all that useful in a circuit driven by a 12AT7, though it can appear to be given how long and dark the decay of many modern reverb tanks are. Rather than drill and add another pot/knob I prefer to change out the tank for one that sounds right without the Dwell circuit.
Very interesting stuff!
Not wanting to modify my very valuable vintage amp, I do the same thing by using a BOSS EQ pedal.
Whats a mitzput?? 😂. Great as always.
Interesting that you use a 100k. I typically use a 10k on a dr or pr to match the twin pot. I’m not interested in defeating tone stack though. I will keep this in my back pocket if someone asks for more gain.
Thanks so much for explaining that! I love all of those blackface amps and have always wondered at the differences other than power and speaker config
The most important pedal for any amp is an equalizer. You can dial in just about any tone your amp is wanting, your ear is wanting. Cheers
Using an eq at the input of the amp isn't the same as altering frequency response with the amps' tone controls, * which have a different kind of resonance,,*.
But the Fender blackface tone stack comes AFTER the first tube gain stage. That makes a difference.
You are still at the mercy of your tone controls. If you use an EQ pedal the output might be enough for the boosted frequencies to forward conduct on the first stage.
That could be a good thing though.
When making changes to a tone stack, do you run simulations on the Tone Stack Calculator from Duncan Amps first or do you just do trial and error experimentation?
I use the Duncan thing and ltspice when working on a new design. But for tweaking existing designs, especially "Fender/Marshall" TMBs I pretty much know everything that's going on and if I want more X I know what effects that. So it can be faster to put in a pot and twiddle till my ears are happy.
Could you alligator clip in different mids resistors to find that sweet spot?
You can. Or clip in a pot and twiddle with it then measure what your liked the sound of.
how common is to reduce the mids on a deluxe reverb? I got a 68 CRD and a SRri. i set the mids around 5/6 on the super. i found the 68 crd has a but too much midrange and googling how to reduce them i found your video. will the 68 crd it sound good with reduced mids? Thanks
How do I clean vol pot?
Would adding a mid pot give it more of a fatter and more marshall type sound? I have a 64 custom deluxe reverb that I’m battling with when I use an overdrive pedal. Because of the scooped mids. Any suggestions? I have changed out the original speaker to a celestion creamback 65 to get a smoother more overdrive friendly type of sound.
you had mentioned kendrick blackframes not being a suitable speaker for super reverbs because of 1 inch voice coil . they sound fine in my amp but im always open to try new things . you also said you put wgs g10c speakers in a super reverb , those speakers weigh 7 lb .. how do they sound
Great topic, thank you..I used to like to replace the 6800 (on the bass pot)resistor in my ProReverb with a 10k. I played it pretty clean and liked the mid boost.
Is that brass bar stock under the tone pots an addition you did or do they come like that, I don't recall seeing that ever ? Thx.
That’s on almost every Fender amp from ‘58-81 or so.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks. New subscriber. Love your talent ! I recently picked up an unmolested 65' Pro Reverb and am slowly getting familiar with it.
Wow I've always wondered about this. Thanks for the explanation. I built an AB763 Deluxe Reverb clone kit as a head to run through Marshall 4x12 like a psychopath. I've always thought about adding a mid pot. I'm gonna play with that 6.8k like you mentioned and see what happens.
Hello, so with the 6.8k ohm resistor you get that scoope tone? thanks
I tried a mid pot with my DR, and finally I found it had the best tone with the 6k8 position 🤗
I have a 65 Deluxe Reverb I purchased in the mid 70s. It is the most insane amp I've ever owned.
There were non reverb AB763's. I have the bandmaster.
Need more episodes
Very helpful! Appreciate everything you share Lyle 👊😎
hi I absolutely love your channel ! You meant to say 100k" linear" not "taper"..10% tolerance pot? correct? Where do you source these? also when you add the mid tone pot to deluxe reverb do you leave in or take out R21 6.8k resistor? thank you for your help
Thanks, and yeah, I meant I replace the 100K linear with a 10% audio 100K. CTS and Alpha both make good ones. I remove the 6.8K when I put in the mids pot. It is wired as a variable resistor and replaces the 6.8K.
6.8k on my 66 Twin is 9 on the mid pot. Interesting video.
Anyone here have any advise for me. I just bought brand new 65 reissue super reverb. I'm not tech savvy. I don't know a tech that lives in chattanooga. I'm searching. I'm struggling to get the super to react to my pedals. I've tried all eq combinations lol. Including setting them to where they just start to work. But every overdrive I put on. It sounds terrible I mean ten times worse than through my hot rod deluxe. The hot rod deluxe is a way darker amp anyways. I want to keep the amp. What can I do or have done to the amp to make it except overdrives better? I appreciate anyone who takes the time to respond
You may consider removing the bright cap.
Like listening to an Artisan Baker tell how and why a great bread it made!😂
I love this kind of info, I have a 1976 (AA270) silver face Vibrolux that I've owned for 10 years and I want to know everything about it. I hope you are doing a series, that'd be awesome 😁👍
I plan on it as ideas occur to me and time allows. Hence "Episode One."
Thanks Lyle,
Are the mids the same on a Vibrolux Reverb as the Deluxe Reverb?
Yup.
Saw a video from Pete Thorn today that talked about the Hiwatt 103 and its 100 ohm mid pot that gives it its huge midrange, plus added drive in that range. I hadn't realized the the pot could add that much added character to a specific range of the amp. He also stated that the Hiwatt was basically a fender on steroids. Is it that easy to mod an amp's character with the pots?
100K ohm. Not trying to correct you, just wanted some clarity on this. But yes, it offers a lot of mids control, including STUN.
Sweet spot on my “no mids” pro reverb is both bass and treble between 2-3, with bright switch on.
That’s the secret setting. People miss it because they adjust tone with their eyes!
Thanks, it only took me over 60 years to learn this.
Excellent ..
really enjoy this
I had a 1.5k resistor so I tried tagging it to the 6.8k which gave me close to 1.2k. I like the sound of the 6.8k better. I am working on a custom single channel deluxe reverb without trem and a mid pot so this really helped me to understand what I need to do for a mid pot. I may run a the pot in series with a resistor to set the mid point at 6.8k.
Thanks!
I just thought of it. Wouldn't it be easy to swap the pot out with a push pull pot? When pulled, it could bypass the pot and use solely the 6.8k resistor and when pushed, the pot is activated? I will likely do that in my build. I would have the wires running to the front panel anyways, may as well do something with them. Thanks again!
If you have a mids pot just turn it until it’s at 6.8K. IOW just turn it until you like the sound. No series stuff or switch needed.
@@PsionicAudio Yes, but I like to experiment :) if I find myself using the variable pot more than the resistor, I will repurpose the push pull switch for something different.
I am not going to make a front panel for the amp until I am done tweaking.
I drew up a PCB for the single channel Deluxe Reverb over the last couple of days. I have that pretty much wrapped up. I will hopefully build this soon!
t
Very interesting topic! Anyone know if the same thing is happening on a Princeton? They always seem to have less mids than the Deluxe Reverb, to my ears.
The Deluxe Reverb and Princeton have the exact same preamp (one channel only on the Princeton) with the same tone stack.
But different voltages and very different output sections, speakers, and cabs.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks so much for that! Love your channel!
Would you recommend adding a Mids knob to a Blackface Fender Bassman?? If so, is it easy?
I would not drill an original ‘60s chassis or run the signal to the polarity switch. A tech could easily put a trimpot in place of the mids resistor inside, but it would not be adjustable on the fly.
@@PsionicAudio if I change the 2 prong plug to a 3 prong plug, maybe then I could replace the ground switch with a Mids Knob?
@@PsionicAudio and also, just to make sure I’m understanding this video, you’re adding a resistor to the Mids pot so that on the low end of the Mids spectrum, it sounds more like a Twin Reverb, but once you get past 5.5 (or noon) it sounds like a usual Super/Deluxe Reverb?
Love it...
The pots are all interactive. If you turn the mids up, you have less bass response. More mids is good if you play a Les Paul, but if you are playing a Strat you want more bass.