Kyle Defoor on the Benefits of Running Low Power Variable Optics
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Red dot sights absolutely serve a purpose, but former U.S. Navy SEAL Kyle Defoor looks at why you should consider low power variable optics for your AR. Read more: www.tactical-l...
Video by Alex Landeen
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I use my rifle for work. After literally years and years of always looking for a better way, and a box full of sights, I have found the LPVO to be the best choice for dynamic and rapidly evolving situations.. My LPVO has saved at least one life just because I was able to make a no shoot decision by increasing magnification, allowing me to correctly determine a suspects intent and capability. I happened to be the only one on my team so equipped at that moment. I was not typically tasked to kick doors but every once in a while......the LPVO presented no significant disadvantage. The LPVO with a correctly zero’ed BDC is far and away the best most versatile piece of gear I have found. Of course your mileage may vary.
I agree
A big thing for me is that I got astigmatism so red dots can look kinda fuzzy whereas the etched reticle on LPVs stays nice and crisp and can let me reach out without needing glasses/contacts in.
Good to know. I have +1.0 of vertical astigmatism and the red dot looks like string of beads for me. I use corrective lenses but still get a lot of starburst effect.
@@VincitOmniaVeritas7 Alternatively you can run a prism red dot optic to eliminate the squashed raspberry appearance. Prism optics, like LPVOs, have an etched reticle. Primary Arms makes some great ones in 1x and with set low magnification, like 3x/4x/5x.
Smith that's actually very good advice, thanks. Now that I think about it, I have a Leupold fire dot scope and I don't get that visual artifact with the red illumination on. Must be the etched reticle like you said.
@@VincitOmniaVeritas7 You’re welcome. I have a slight astigmatism as well. One last piece of advice from someone who has been in your shoes - some red dots (not prism red dots, they are all clear and crisp) cause little to no problem for my eyes. Every optic is different and you’ve just got to try a bunch out. One constant I have found however is red dots that aren’t just a dot, but are a reticle - think a ring with a dot in the center - don’t cause me any problems. I’ve got a couple Holosun 510C optics that are awesome for my eyes. Oh yeah, the reticle color matters too. My eyes favor the greens over the red ones. Cheers
A few other advantages to red dots:
1 - Much easier to shoot with from weird positions (around / under a car etc.) especially with the non-dominant eye. Although the eyebox of LPVOs have improved dramatically over the past 7 years, none have what is essentially the unlimited eyebox and infinite eye relief of a red dot.
2 - Battery life is long enough that you can leave the sight on (this may matter to someone using his rifle as a bedside gun).
3 - No ocular (focus) settings to go out of adjustment and easy interchangeability between multiple users.
4 - If passive aiming under NODs is a concern then the RDS is a much better option.
As for the LPVO, even if you don’t see yourself needing to shoot beyond 50 yards, one advantage the magnification provides is the ability to more easily engage a small or difficult target at close range. And while an RDS is very likely to experience zero shift when a magnifier is added, any quality LPVO will maintain its zero throughout its entire magnification range.
Different tools for different purposes I suppose
LPVO's also fixes your astigmatism issues. KD4 is the Best!!!
I am a full fan of red dots, as a civilian I build my rifles for close quarters. 99 percent of the time I would need to fire at a human would be 50 yards or less IMO. Home break ins, Vehicle pistol AR for personal Def. The weight and the speed of a red dot are un matched in a stress situation with zero eye relief. I do believe those optics would be fun however not needed for my application and most home defenders IMO.
i'm just curious what you're gonna do with all the time you saved from saying "def." instead of "defense.
carl fuck off
@@carl-ok9gn he missed a prime time-saving opportunity to say "def'ers" instead of "defenders" towards the end there
@@mynameis______392 nah
@@carl-ok9gn lmao 😂
I dont think we will see red dots become equipment of the past in sole favor of LPV's. I snap shoot with RDS to 50yds quickly and make hits at 300 pretty consistently from the prone. Can I shoot LPV better at 100+ yards? Sure, but all I'm looking for is an effective hit, not a quarter size group. Where I work, our engagement distance is likely to be anywhere from 0-40yds. 40yds being the least likely side of that. RDS are much less weight and when clearing several stories of a building room by room, the weight matters. I have used both and really enjoy LPV's, but everything should be purpose driven. For some individuals' purpose, saving the weight and having an optic that does everything well for your given environment is what I want. Good points made in the video and LPV is the best "jack of all trades" imo, but for what I do, I'll take a good RDS. YMMV, but I think calling red dots "dinosaurs" is far from factual. Mission driven.
I agree whole heartedly. Bring the equipment for the mission, not for the possibilities. Besides, variation of equipment, within a group/squad , actually increases probability of mission success. Just my two cents
I agree absolutely 100% Nathan...I can totally understand from a military perspective, but i'm in the city and anything out past 100 yards ( i hate saying this) but I highly doubt i'm going to engage it. Also...the weight factory and robustness of the optic. I'm definitely not going to knock em though...The main factory for me, is weight and price!
Likely is fantastic til you land in the realm of unlikely and find yourself wishing for something to deal with it.
@@Kylef7735 true, but even if predicting 100% of the possibilities was possible, preparing for 100% of possibilities would make me less effective for the 99% of what I know is most likely. I train for the unlikely with the equipment that is best suited for the most likely, which is why I shoot a red dot to 300yds. Even then, 300yds isnt a shot I'll be taking in my environment as the line of sight isnt even 300yds and the risk of collateral is too high. Adding 20oz to a gun that has to be presented for long periods of time in mainly close quarters, while also lugging around magazines, plates, kevlar, etc, isnt going to help me. It'll be to my detriment 99% of the time. I'll take the risk on 1%, the same way I dont carry twice as many mags in the unlikely event I need 240rds. Weight and mobility are more important to me *in my environment*. Your environment may dictate otherwise, which is the original message.
@@nathanhoxworth1185 this is totally up to your mission and how u shoot. are you in the desert like Arizona or are you in the city. it all depends if your clearing mountains or clearing rooms. this video was more to show people there is another option to use most people just go red dot not thinking about its use to this depths.
LPVO with RDS canted....
There are still three advantages to the RDS that keep them relevant.
Unlimited eye relief, weight, and cost.
plus if an rds fails you can still use iron sights while looking through it.
@@andyw237 you can still use irons with 1x zoom, just not as well as a RDS
Uhhh, Larue quick release.
@@JohnDoe-zb7dz not as fast as just looking through the optic. Cowitnessed irons are even faster than tilting the gun for offset sights
and it's much easier to use a red dot with nods than with lpvo
I have two Vortex HDII 1-6, and a Kahles K16i. Both have great eye relief and offer all the advantages you outlined in this video.
In unconventional shooting positions, such as roll over prone, shooting underneath cars, shooting from the ground on your back, or anytime you can’t get a good check weld. Those are times that an RDS is pretty awesome and has an advantages over a LPVO. The Kahles is more forgiving than the Vortex.
I’ve been running a SWFA 1-4x24 for decades. Love it Japanese glass great simple reticle bright etched reticle and built like a tank. SWFA still makes this scope today and I’m actually getting another for a new rifle. Great optic with lifetime warranty
Just found this vid in 2023. As I've gotten older my eyes have not been cooperating with the rds. 1x prism has helped but lpvo with a fast acquisition rds mounted on top has been the best for me
Primary Arms 1-6x24 with ACSS thanks Dimitri
i just ordered mine last night lmao
Run mine in three guns and a lot of the guys with way better optics play with mine and can't believe how good it really is. Now that they have first focal I'm gonna have to build a new race gun to buy one of those
Mine already has dust or something in the reticle 😑
Mines been solid, I neglect it too. I never keep scope caps on it either. Shoot in dirty environments with lots of sand and dust. No issues
@@georgeshorter142 Get ahold of Dimitri or Primary Arms. They'll take a look at it and fix it. Lifetime warranty
So here's my approach with the AR platform: I use a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4X. I picked 62gr ammo as my base and zero'd it to Max Point Blank Range for that weight. What that gives me is a weapon that will hit anything within a 6 inch circle out to 300 yards. I point shoot, and hit out to that range which really is pretty realistic when we talk about a defense of life/liberty rifle. My 400 yard holdover is minimal, and the BC for high end ammo vs lower end doesn't make a difference out to 300 yards. So that's my recipe for a weapon that will be effective out to realistic distances, and you don't necessarily need a high end scope to make it work if money is an issue.
I took the exact same approach, but using 55gr. So long as the illuminated triangle is smaller than the target's torso at 4x, I hold dead on or slightly high, out to the effective range of M193 out of a 16" barrel.
Primary arms 1-8x24 platinum w/ACSS walks all over the vortex for about same cost, check em out Japanese glass same factory that makes high end Leopolds
@@WizardActual1-1 Nice scope, but really hard to beat the PA as far as reticle/cost
got a steiner 1-4 and its light and glass is awesome...The ACSS is a sick
SHADOW exactly what I was going to type! No questions asked and you get FFP!
@@willb8684 I have steiners and others...steiner is the only aimpoint bright LPV I have found. I say aimpoint bright cuz so many say daylight bright....but arent!!
@@chaoticcaninejb Never really understood daylight bright in a scope I run mine off until twilight
You can hit clearly visible targets very easily with a RDS out to 300m at least. The advantage of magnification is finding concealed targets and identifying visible targets at a distance.
On my home defense rifle, I still use a red dot. 12 yards max in my house. I also use that gun for hunting with a PVS-14 at night. You don't have to refocus the PVS-14 after you see your target with a red dot. You do if you're using a scope with the PVS-14. I've got coyotes up to about 130-140 yards no problem.
Seems like Day is LPVO, Night is RDS.
I know I'm late but hear me out... I don't believe that anyone needs to spend $1000 on a Vortex Razor HD or close to it unless your in the service or contractor in some war zone who needs that reliability and durability. For those who are looking to save money and get something that you could use everyday and would fit the role for law enforcement or some grand scale collapse where you would need to potentially protect you and your family then I would highly suggest the Primary Arms 1-6x24 gen 3 with the acss reticle which is a SFP at $289.99 or the FFP version with the Raptor reticle for $399.99.
Reason I suggest these two are because they are well built, glass is pretty good- specially at the price point and if something does go wrong with them the warranty is really good. I personally suggest the FFP version for the reason that on 1 power the reticle shrinks down small enough to use is like a red dot or circle dot and the reticle is great due to it's ability to quickly range estimate and the wind/moving target holds. You are getting alot of bang for the buck and it's rugged enough to handle anything that would happen state side. There's other options which are good but your typically gonna pay alot more.
If you want something more rugged with higher class quality they offer the same products in the Platinum series which are gonna be more money. Another good LVPO that's cost effective is the Hi-Lux 1-4x24 CMR4 by Leatherwood Optics which is a good one that won't break the bank. Just don't buy it from the website cuz you can find them sub $300. Glass clarity is good and the reticle is nice. It's SFP and you can get it in red or green illumination. I have one in green illumination. One potential down fall is (I can only speak to the green illumination) the green isn't daylight bright. For me that isn't an issue as I don't use illumination during the day on magnified optics. In low light and at night the illumination is just fine and is also crisp which come in two configururations- 5.56/.308 and 7.62x39.
Just my two cents.
To each his own I suppose. I have 2 combat tours under my belt and used my issued ACOG, Bushnell TRS-25, and a Bushnell 3-9 scope. All of them were effective and all of them were combat ready for me. If you wanna spend several thousand dollars on an optic go ahead, but my experience says it's not needed.
Primary Arms Optics for great quality and price! Check out the ACSS scopes and HUD DMR / FFP scopes
I second that. Currently running the PA 1x6 ffp acss. For the money, it'll be hard to beat.
Easily the best purchase I've ever made when it comes to weapon mounted optics.
Obviously a paid shill add for PA... he says clearly in the video that you HAVE to spend $1K to get a good scope.
Bruh I spent half that on my PA 1-8x and it's got thr ACSS reticle. You don't need a vortex or nightforce to get into the LPVO game. It would be nice, but for the money, the new PA Raptor ACSS LPVOs are fuckin sicc
Seen a lot of topical videos about LPVs. This one is the best by far. Perfectly explanatory.
Thanks for the solid advice and info sir. I'm a proud first AR owner as of 2 weeks ago. My 1st optic had to be a cheaper variant but will be getting a better scope/optic by the end of this year. I'm stuck between a LPVO or an optic/ magnifier combo. I'm leaning towards a LPVO now so deer, coyote & varmint hunting will be nicer. Thanks again man.
Take a look at a Redfield 2.5x7. Model number 899349. I have 4, including one on my AR. Much less expensive than "tactical" scopes of comparable magnification. Also, only 10 ounces in weight. My AR is my go to coyote rifle. Just looked and Natchez has it for 129. I just bought another one, that's way cheap for the quality of the scope.
Vortex Crossfire II, Bushnell AR 1-4×24, Athlon Talos 1-4×24 BTR, Primary Arms Classic 1-4×24 are all great budget friendly LPVOs, they are all Second Focal Plane, almost all have illuminationans under $200.
With a budget of $300 you can get so much more of a product so do your research but those are great options. I have the Athlon Talos and it has been great on my AR. Love the reticle design on it
I made the switch this year to a Trijicon AccuPower 1X8, really is the jack of all trades, I've been converted. Only drawback is the weight, but well worth it for the versatility.
Great video you covered a lot to include what I’m going to comment on
I believe the majority of people that will see this use it for sport and not necessarily in the profession that being said should I threw in a budget friendly scope meaning something in the 300 range
I am a huge fan Of primary arms... their radical within itself is worth the money.
Appreciate the video very informative
They are situation dependent. You want a home defense sight or close range sight up to 100 to maybe 150 yds, take the RD. If you intend to engage targets well past 150 yards, run a LPVO.
If ur only going to use the 1 and 6x magnification why not use a red dot in conjunction with the Devo or just use an elcan where u can switch between 1-4 1.5-6 etc or just get a 6x magnifier. Me personally I like to use 1st focal plane so I can use bdc and at least in the army I use different magnifications for pid because 6x can be too much
In what situation would you need to use your BDC at a magnification setting other than the highest. SFP has its advantages.
@@Kylef7735 alot of situations not gonna go in-depth but sometimes a 4x is better than 6 x for faster transitions at range like say 300m 4x may be better a faster for u than 6 because of tunnel vision. At the range u might as well use 6 but combat u like those in-between things. Just because the magnification is there doesn't mean u have to use it and doesn't mean it's best for all situations
@Chris Indermuehle if that's the case then get a 1-6 but if price guides ur decision too much then you can't really complain about the best option because u can't afford the best
Even on SFP optics the centerpoint of the scope (usually the zero point of the reticle) is always true to zero so SFP will be within 3" of POA out to 250 yards with a 50 yard zero on a 5.56 (16") carbine beyond that you'll probably be on 6x anyways.
@Chris Indermuehle and the whole "shifting zero" thing.
Most self defense situation occur at close range. Only military, LE, and competitive shooters will engage at 400 yards. RDS with a magnifier will suit most defensive situation needs.
LEOs dont shoot 400 yards...
For that reason I have a 1x Vortex Spitfire Prism sight on my home defense gun.
You don't need a magnifier for home defence lol a rds works just fine up until 100 yards if you're shooting that far for home defence you're most likely going to prison lol.
You say that now... but wait for the boogaloo ;)
What freakin LEO engages at 400yds!? Lmao you know how rare it is for a LEO to even engage using their Rifle let alone engage at over 50 yds
Great info and input - I just picked up a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6X24...in todays' environment, I was happy to find one after 4 months of looking for $599.00 out the door and it's MOA...I had considered the Razor and even found some around $1,300.00 but with everyone saying the Viper is 80% of the Razor at 1/2 the price, I held out for it - Thank you for your service and great download !
I've been using FFP LPVOs for many years now, especially in the terrain I'm in out West.
See many others have beat me to it, but Im going to say it any way....
Primary Arms acss. They even have the raptor that is ffp.
That's what I have. Works good.
Yup. I've replaced all my Vortex with PA FFP ACSS and am very happy I did it. I've ran PA through several carbine courses and train with them regularly. They've all proven to be just as rugged as any Vortex, and offer a major step forward in versatility because of the reticle. I've never been able to engage in CQB, then put rounds on target at 4-5-600yds so quickly.
Amen
Amen! Paid about$300 for a quality 1-6x.
Btw, running 45 degree angle sights are much faster than a quick detach mount. Here is why I want at least one or the other ...breakage and snow. If you have some big piece of snow fall in that optic lense, you might be screwed, you shatter glass, your screwed. Have a way to stay in the game quickly. For me, its the angled sights. My two cents.
I continue to scratch my head wondering why people don’t realize this.
william terry Unless they’re low profile flip-ups. They don’t get caught on anything.
Re: Training operators.
Saw video of Texashoghunter at night take out 14 skittering dodging feral hogs in a few seconds with suppressed thermal scope AR. platform.
Kept thinking of the training opportunities combined with positive benefit to the farmer/rancher.
That guy was deadly at leading live fast moving targets.
I’ll always have a RDS on my gun for deer drives in brushes and marshes. It’s quick, light and I’m not shooting over 50yrds. I put LPSO on my varmint guns and HPSO on my long distance rifles. Every optics have their own uses. Use what you like and is comfortable shooting.
No operator beard, obviously fake.
thats the new operator....its fli;ped
Tactical Teddy can't grow a beard.
No, that just tells you that although the armed forces are training at a higher cadence than ever, they're not out in the Middle East kicking in doors of Taliban officials anymore .... So what are they doing? of course they're preparing for what they're calling "civil unrest" ... The FEMA camps are already built ... Don't believe me? Do the research.
@@jhanks2012 it's called "sarcasm".
@@jhanks2012 The tac-beard is still relevant despite the winding down of main body military operations in the Middle East domains and especially in regards to your civil unrest remarks should they be true if operators are moving from blending in with native Middle Eastern tribal ethnicities to blending in with native Portlandia middle income middle suburbia hipsters armed with protest poster board clad flannels, mac books, and premium Java lounge fueled reddit rants instead of PKMs, IEDs, RPGs and AKs.
Need to look at Primary Arms 1-6 and 1z8x24 bud. $289 & 389. Excellent scopes!!! Way more quality than their price. Have the 1-8 mounted on my M1A Scout DMR and anything within 800m is mine with 168gr SMK. And they're idiot proof with their ACSS reticle.
Excellent scopes based on what? Compared to what? What is your experience in life and with these scopes that leads you to suggest such?
Primary Arms is just fine for us who shoot for fun and sport. As good as primary arms optics are, If you shoot bad people for a living, you need to look elsewhere. With that being said, the ACSS reticle is pure genious. The ACSS reticle in a true combat quality otpic is as good as it gets
Based on what, exactly?
Heres what I'm tired of people telling me I can't put down a threat with a Primary Arms scope I must have a Nightforce or Trijicon or Leupold ETC.
@@harrywrigleyjr2634 No one said you couldn't put down a threat to you or your family with a rifle equipped with a Primary arms optic. Two out of the three AR's in my safe wear primary arms ACSS optics. I"m currently looking at replacing the optic on the third one with the new 3-18x50 ACSS when it becomes available. What I said was they are perfectly fine for folks who don't kill bad people for a living. Police SWAT teams, the military and all sorts of special operations types need equipment has to stand up to a lot more abuse than yours and mine.
I wonder what Kyle thinks of offsetting an RDS for close up shooting. Sounds like he’s comfortable shooting the LPVO in a CQB environment, but the battery life advantage of an offset RDS can’t be ignored. An LPVO + RDS offset gives the best of both, and with a minimal weight increase if that RDS is something like an RMR.
The benefits can be further exploited by using smaller pistol rmr sights. And they are just as tough
Love my Steiner 1-4x. Super clear.
Yeah man IMO best 1-4× under $750 are
TR24
RS24
P4Xi.
Not Mil or LEO here, just looking for a fun shooter to double as self defense should the need develop. I spent under $700.00 on a Stag Model 3. Put diamondhead flip up irons on it and then mounted a 1-6 on a QD mount in case the glass ever became disabled. I went with a Leupold VX-6 when setting up my AR. I spent hours researching the online resources. Its encouraging to see this vid as in the end I came down to the VX-6 and the Vortex. In the end while the glass in the Vortex might have been a bit better....The Vortex was twice the weight of the VX-6. And a good bit more expensive. The Fire Dot in the Leupold is bright as hell on full brightness and ok in dim light. I went with a basic Fire Dot/Duplex reticle. The main reason I chose Leupold over Vortex was weight. I cant remember as it was 3 years ago but Im going to say the Leupold was about 15Oz... and the Vortex was 28. Nearly twice the weight. Dont hate on me if I got those numbers wrong... cant remember breakfast....
My initial thoughts were just to have a high quality set of irons. But at 63 my eyes cant be trusted and in low light even the Diamondheads became invisible. So I looked at ACOG/ Vortex, Burris, and a couple others.
For under $1500.00 I have a good standard rifle, nice optics good at any range cheap mil spec 5.56 is capable of. True 1x with bright Firedot. And 6x for longer shots. The battery life has been extremely long. The Leupold shuts itself off and I rarely shoot it on full bright. All I really need is a throw lever because its true I either use 1x or 6x.
Keep in mind that an etched reticle on a scope will be clear for shooters with astigmatism, whereas a red dot can be a star or comet shaped.
John iYn an RDS this can be mitigated by having your rear backup sight up. When you look through the aperture it immediately clears up the red dot for most people.
@@TheMediumDaddy true but if you do not use absolute co-witness (where your irons and red dot are on the same plane) your shots will be way off. I use a lower 1/3 co-witness so it wouldn't work, in addition to being slower.
@@glklvr got the same problem with my Sig sauer Romeo5x. Tried a Romeo3 at the shop and it looks fine... Need to do more research.
John thanks for that tip. I have worn glasses all my life and have strong astigmatism in my dominant eye and have never been happy with how red dots look to me. Now I know why.
Totally agree on the quick connect. Get down in the deep south ultra stupid humidity and then add dense vegetation. There is no amount of cloth made to completely clear the lenses of condensation.
I see, that most comment two years ago; my two cents, I purchased Vortex Viper PST 1-6 very good glass at a cost from Vortex military discount $550. I watched several videos on both of Vortex models, and I picked up the Viper PST.
Makes sense, especially when the LPVO is true 1x capable on it's lowest setting. I can see how you are not giving anything up going to LPVO from a Red Dot 1x only. I coyote hunt a lot with a Leupold Vari X III 1.75-6x32; granted I'm not fighting for country and can't equate coyote hunting to war, what I can say is at 1.75x I have coyotes pop up inside 10 yards frequently in the dense mesquite/cactus cover or shinnery oak and I can lift my rifle and the target is acquired quickly. I can see how a true 1x LPVO would work like a Red Dot 1x. BUT with the LPVO you gain so much more. Great vid sir and thank you for your service.
@@christopherlindloff8331 I made the statement based on my experience. I've popped pigs and coyotes with a Bushnell TR25 red dot. Cheap, I know, but it did what I needed it to. I also have a Leupold that often stays on 1.75x and I pop charging/trotting/hopping coyotes & foxes under that power, sometimes I'm shouldering the rifle and making snap shots in the thick mesquite or shinnery oak. There are times I have trouble acquiring the target when the scope is cranked higher than 1.75x and making fast shots, but I can't recall having trouble with the 1.75x power. I have hunted coyotes with that scope for more than 20 years, I've shouldered the rifle and scope so many times and I have the eye relief acquisition in muscle memory I suppose. I was thinking the 1x LPVO would perform as DeFoor illustrated, it makes sense to me. I'll get a 1x LPVO someday and can make a more experienced statement next time.
If you want "cheap" the Steiner p4xi cannot be beat. They didnt skimp on the glass and durability. Being a 1-4 really brings the price down as well. Yeah it's a little less magnification but for my intended use its plenty.
J Company USA I absolutely love my P4Xi. Have it on a 10.3” Geissele build in an ADM Recon mount. I’d recommend the Steiner all day long.
I remember when the Steiners were like 600 bucks. Now , good luck finding one for less then 750.
I would pick the Vortex, because I would not spend over 1k on a scope. I think a dot sight or circle dot is fine for a close range rifle and it is a lot lighter too. Most 1x6 scopes and a mount will add 5x the weight of a dot scope.
Dr. Tech our non magnified rifles have the aimpoint micro and yes, very light, 4.5 ounces I believe. Our female officers prefer them for the weight and simplicity. Many of our males also hunt and appreciate the versatility of the magnified optic and dont mind the weight. After a couple stand off situations they were completely sold. Good identification from a much safer distance. We also run 45 degree angle sights on them for bad breath distance work.
@@learnedl If you want one rifle and one scope to do it all, get the 1x6 Vortex, and like I said, thats a good choice. But if you want a close range fast handling and light weight rifle, the dot sight is fine, for Women, and yes for super Macho guys too.
The best TRUE 1x is the 1-8x28 PowerPoint by Trijicon hands down, in the LPV arena.
And here I am in my humble corner with my $150 Athlon 1-4 SFP LPVO, has worked great for what I need it though.
If shit hit the fan and I need one optic to-do everything from 0-400 yards sure but in normal world were it's more likely tobe 0-50 yards and the eye relief plus the price i think a rds is better with extra cash you can get some nice back up irons plus a really nice rds.
I’m suuuper late but if you don’t have the cash for a vortex razor look for a viper pst gen 2. Vortex themselves have said that the viper pst 2 is 85-90% of a razor for 50% the cost.
I made the switch to a Primary Arms 1-6x Raptor ACSS FFP and thats where I will stay as far as LPV's go... Red dots still have their place just not on my AR's anymore being the 1x on my Raptor is a damn good red dot.
Colonel Jeff Cooper placed a Handgun long-eye relief scope on a rifle, forward of the receiver for his Scout Rifle concept. Fast forward to now... Thanks Col Cooper.
This vid is so 2014. As of 2018 Primary Arms 1-6x24 ACSS is by far the Best scope for the money. Has awesome eye relief possibly better than the Vortex your recommending. Primary Arms is only $289. It’s one of Sooches00 favorite scopes. Check out his vids on it.
The SFP 1-6x has really, really bad glass. Awful fisheye at 1x and bad light transmission - I was really disappointed with the one I used. Double your budget and get a Steiner, Trijicon, or higher-end Vortex.
We have 3 vortex in use for our department. First of all, it allows longer stand off distances and keeps the officer from getting sucked in too close. It also allows for proper id of threat. And most important, accurate shots with confidence. This "Good enough" logic has no place at all in modern law enforcement. We are in the business of protecting lives, not endangering them.
@BirdMan Fether why is it a lie? You going to lump every officer in the country into a single group because of the actions of a few that made the news for unjust use of force?
usus direse brother I could not agree more!! This technology and proper training keep officers and civilians safe. People who argue this have never had to put their life on the line for people they don’t know. And if you are wrong or right they will crucify you. And if you don’t do anything they will blame the cops for “not doing their job”. It’s the hardest job in the world next to being a parent. I thank you for your service Officer
Jason Riggs Thank you, it is appreciated.
LMFAO being cop is not hard. its hard in the U.S because we fucking hate them and for good reason. @@jasonriggs8048
@@2000rayc aren't you late for your liberal black lives matter BS branch meeting?
For home defense I anticipate my shots will be well under 50 yds. RDS are cost effective and lighter weight. When I go to a course, I fit my sig 4X magnifier.
Just got an atibal CP6 zeroed it today nice inexpensive LPVO.
I have the Vortex 1-6 Razor and love it but, I would rather have the IOR Valdada 1-10x26 35mm FFP over it or the Nightforce.
red dots are for cqb. 10.5 or 11.5 i use an aimpoint t2. my 14.5 i run a nightforce atacr with a t2 on a 45 mount so i can reach out and run through an objective with one rifle. been running this type of set up sice 2010.its very effective but this set up is a little hefty, u can run a rmr or equivalent in a predator mount and a vortex and be a little lighter and a lot cheaper.
I would love to hear Kyle's opinions on the ACSS reticle. Obviously Trijicon has used it in scopes and ACOGs so its an established and viable reticle.
Not Kyle I know, going with Rex reviews and Mrgunandgear, both have said good things about the acss. Next build and an old rifle are both going to end up with them personally.
@@truckert9729 I have 2 myself both 1-6. They are outstanding
I’m still a fan of an offset or piggybacked aim point/rmr/SRO on an LPVO. Just because I know if I have to take a snap shot I can. I also like using the KDG mounts and running back up irons as well. I still think a red dot is still applicable because in many environments an lpvo may not be needed. You can change your kit on mission need. Atacrs are fantastic but if you pay attention most guys are still piggybacking or offsetting a red dot of some sort because of what I said previous. I’m also not going to throw an atacr on a cqbr to save weight. I’m going to throw an lpvo on a recce or a dmr platform. So in some ways I agree and in other ways I disagree.
Very informative and packed with wisdom. You, dear sir, are super knowledgeable.
Thanks.
For me the tiny differences in an RDS w/ magnifier vs a LPV w/ MRD mounted on it are so negligible in total weight that it's something that I can deal with and get over. For me using my AR platform to hunt and train with I am leaning towards the LPV side of the equation. I just need to find the right setup for what I want to put on my AR.
For the types of people that want a good comparison of LPVO vs red dot, go coyote or other predator hunting with each. take your duty rifle. hunting game like coyotes- they can be in your lap, or you can spot them at great distances. they are small, tough creatures that rarely stand still. The benefits and comparisons of each optics characteristics will be clear on the hunt, and is also valuable training for the time you may have to use it on the 2 legged critters.
At approx. 11:45 you talk about how having a mil based reticle makes it easy to zero. But you can do the same thing with an MOA reticle as long as the adjustments and the reticle are MOA, correct? What makes the reticle useful is that it's a Xmas tree, so as you noted, you can just click up and over to zero using the dots on the Xmas tree.
Once I can afford it I'm buying a Nightforce 1-8 ATACR first focal plane scope w/ mil xmas tree reticle. GOTTA have first focal plane if you want to be able to take the shot at any magnification. I just put a Trijicon 1-6 on my Ruger American Ranch...and promply realized that holdovers only work properly on FFP scopes. On second focal plane it's not just range finding that works only at a specific power, but holds as well. Something that so far I've never seen documented.
Yup, as long as the reticle and adjustments match you can zero like that.
Im still getting an MRO for my 300 blackout ar pistol. Seems fitting.
An LPV is inherently more capable than an RDS. However, to access that capability requires training. I don't have time to train enough to be able to consistently utilize that capability and learn to use the system. Therefore, an RDS actually makes me, personally, more capable than an LPV does. Second, the tool needs to match the job and I have no reason to shoot beyond 100-200yds, therefore an RDS is sufficient (and lighter). That's my reasoning.
RDS do still have their place, but LVPOs are the better choice all things considered on a standard AR, if you only have the $ for one. The infinite eyebox of an Eotech on a 300BLK AR for example is a hard to beat setup.
The word of the day is compromise. With every scope/optic decision we have to compromise because nothing works the best in every case. Money, and distance are the two things that mean the most but weight and durability are concerns. I have many different products and I love them all but none are perfect all the time. It's impossible to say one is always better than another. It's a personal choice for sure. I'm just as happy with an Eotech as my 5.5x ACOG or 1-4x Stiener. I can't see past 100 yards very well without magnification however most of my shooting is less than 100 yards, so the red dots work better most of the time.
Low power variable optic paired with a good light/laser for up close work is a helluva combo too
Top notch video. Vortex 1-6 is quality. Khales 1-6 though is my favorite in that range. Would love to try that nightforce though
Good insight on scopes. Looking to upgrade from irons and get some optics. But don’t want to spend ACOG money.
In regard to what he said about a red dot being a 100 yard gun, marines qualify at 500 yards with iron sights. If you can hit at least 5/10 on a human size target with iron sights on an AR15 then you need to work on your shooting skills. If it can be done with irons then it can be done with a red dot.
twisneski86 I get your point, however, in terms of firing on someone you need to properly identify if they are a threat or not. 500 yards is to far to see a weapon and justify it. But yeah if there is a Mongolian hoard coming toward me then sure a RDS can generally reach out.
I agree with him 100%. 1-6 will be on mine soon.
But the vortex strike Eagle illumination goes up to 11...
Speaking of vortex, they offer a viper pst 1-6 that offers 90% of what the razor is for 600 dollars.
Im a longtime shooter. Soooo...I tried a 200$ Sightron 2.5X scope and BURNED through an AR Tac course. These scopes are great that he references. BUT...you can makes something work well if you properly operate ...both eyes open...a scope. Not as durable as the Vortex and others...but so far has been durable and flawless. MIGHT do the 1-6x primary arms scope. Practice sighting DAILY boys.
I have the cheaper vortex. The strike eagle 1-6 variable. Great scope
Very clear and helpful. Much appreciated Kyle.
Love Kyle. Super down to earth guy. Glad he is out here. Awesome video as well
I have a pair of Leupold 1.5x4.5 at $200 and only 8 oz. each on a pair of 223 ARs. Hard to beat at that price. For my AR9 built for 0 to 50 yard shots, red dots are hard to beat.
For hunting and/or competition shooting the LPVO's are nice options. but for up close "defensive" shooting they are not needed. i don't know anyone who has 300 yard hallways in their homes! and if a potential bad guy is 200+ meters away than so are you, this leaves plenty of time to find cover or disappear. plus it's really not hard to hit a silhouette target at 200-300 meters with a RDS or irons if one actually trains. this relates to "defense situations" in which an average defensive engagement is well under 100 meters. if you cant hit a target within 100 meters without using a scope than your problems extend far beyond your equipment.
This is a great video never knew 2nd focal plane scopes are clearer than 1st focal plane scopes because the 2nd focal plane scopes have less lenses.
I wish I saw this video before I bought my scopes
trijicon accupower 1-8 FFP $1100, Primary Arms (black friday) 1-6 FFP $240($400 normally). I like the glass in the trijicon better but the primary arms is solid. I very rarely see the point in spending Night Force money. I mean I get it, but dam.
The man himself dropping knowledge
Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8X24 scope with BDC reticle...totally badass!
If you're gonna shoot primarily close range and wanna save some money get a red dot, if you're gonna shoot longer range and want more versatility get a variable. Either will work fine for the vast majority of situations.
If you wany close range and mid range, get an LPV.
I'll probably purchase a lpvo but my Aimpoints and eotech su231 stay.Trijicon 1x6 with tritium.
Trijicon accupoint 1-4 are going for $750.
It is very lightweight for what it is.
It's true a 4x is so 2015 but the accupoint is still a contender.
If it is a 11.5" gun a 4x is just fine, ideal maybe.
And.. the eyebox on 1x is bigger than most.
The Steiners are also $500 and very good, big eye box, daylight bright, much lighter than the Razor and about $500.
No, one does not need to spend $1,000 to get quality optics.
That's just what "industry guys" want to tell the mall ninjas.
Accupoint MSRP is still $1100 and that's without a mount. MSRP = $1100, that's a $1000+ scope... you just got a decent deal.
But like I said, "that's without a mount." Buy a $750 Accupoint, throw it on a LaRue mount and you're pushing $1000.
@@immikeurnot who the fuck says I must buy a Larue?
I just found the trijicon for $619, and the Steiner for $475 on Botach.
A Nikon black mount is made in the USA, and it is $65.
The numbers dude,
You tallying them?
Accupoints are second focal plane, so your holds and your ranging only work at one magnification.
Primary arms Platinum series. I love how the professionals never mention Holosun. Holosun blows Eotech off the map these days. Good info
Scott Jernigan mhm I might be a bit biased, but I kind of have to say I prefer a eotech. Not to bash Holosun. I have a IR laser/Illuminator that was a bargain for its quality at 750ish for something that heavily competes with peq-15’s, and 16’s which I also have, but hate switching around, and most certainly don’t have the money to buy more of.
Primary arms is on the up though with their accs even being put into Trijicons you can’t deny that they got some good ideas and their variable optics are at a phenomenal price.
EOTech you had to have had one of the bad ones that came out. My buddy just bought a exp2 and it rattled. For money and I do risk my life for one I’d take a Holosun. I have not used a Holosun IR though so that was good info man. Thanks
Actually it doesn’t. The holosun reticle is more of an oval and smudged at the bottom. You can see this with a magnifier. Not a true clear dot. Also if it’s not a 1 moa, which I don’t think any of them are, a magnifier blows up that skewed dot picture just bigger. The reason it’s oval and smudged is because of the angle of the laser hitting the glass from below.
It really all depends what you are using the gun for. A normal citizen that does not hunt, and is just using the gun for home defense, does not need a variable optic, because if the person is more than 100yrds away they are not really a threat. Maybe if you are a cop or military this MIGHT make sense. It all depends what you need the rifle to do. Hunting absolutely this makes perfect sense. but your normal everyday guy is not going to be as fast with a varible optic as he would be with a red dot. Its all good to say it comes down to training but unless your job happens to bring you into contact with a rifle range, its just more realistic that a red dot is going to be your better option for home defense, self defense, cqcb. In my humble opinion.
The NXS is probably the best buy in optics today.
Price to performance + weight
Okay if you go to buy a scope and the reticle is in mils and the turrets in moa pick a different scope I feel like this should just be common knowledge. I prefer moa because I'm bad at math but why measure a board in inches then cut it in millimeters.
Nice scope but just a bit expensive in Canada Vortex® Razor HD Gen II $2,999.99. $CAN, Nightforce ATACR F1 1-8x24 , $3,724.00
GREAT video! So, could you do a video on your LPVO zero and utilizing the LPVO reticle, magnification at different distances? Please ;-) Do you always zero the ATACAR at 100yd?
Leopold 1.5 ×4 best value with firedot 300 bucks
Pauls Country not if you shoot with both eyes open. 1.5x is pointless when there are true 1x options within the price range.
Leupold all the way primary arms don't even build their own scopes and vortex is Chinese pos. If you don't buy American then you are funding the Chinese time to support American families
@@kenwilson4775 Oh wow.
Great info! Thanks for taking the time to explain all that.
Thank you so much for this valuable perspective.
Burris 3x has been good to me, great for cqb and up.
missed the tried and tested 4X acog and newcomer Monstrum Tactical FFP 6-24x50 Gen 2
“Since I’m mostly hunting mostly animals and humans.” Lol
I'm curious as to the thoughts about running scope levels on LPV's. I personally do & usually appreciate them when having to knock out multiple shots at distance & consecutively.
I have a CVLife scope on a LWRC...
Primary arms 1-8x FFP slx with ACSS is only $480 and lifetime guaranteed. Only weighs 18oz also.
Good video with a lot of good information! I would like to know your thoughts on Primary Arms LPV compared to Vortex. Many say they're a much better value than Vortex.
I run a PA SLx 1-8x24 FFP With ACSS raptor reticle, and it has been amazing for the price ($479.00). For a First focal plan LPVO! that amazing, especially with many reviews giving a lot of praise to it durability. Nothing wrong with Vortex and other brands, they are all damn good these days, but its definitely not the best value on the market as stated in the video.