darktable 3.0 : dodging and burning with the tone equalizer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Good news : understand how the tone equalizer works and how it can help you achieve what filmic couldn't to even the exposure between different zones in your pictures, with a chrominance-preserving algorithm, in darktable 3.0.
Bad news: I compiled darktable with Clang (instead of the usual GCC) and the demo is just as buggy as a Microsoft Keynote. #fail
Half-good news: I'm now able to reproduce those strange bugs people have been having, so we are half-way through the fixing. #halffail
Educational video about dodging and burning in the dark room : • Film photography befor...
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I am Aurélien Pierre, full-stack #photographer and #darktable developer. I work on improving workflows for #photography and I do research and development in #image #processing.
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Thank you for this video Aurélien. It helps me a lot to understand how the tone equalizer works. Seeing the mask and then how equalizer curve uses the mask to find which pixels to affect is the key idea for me. Your little schematic of the transforms helped as well. I suspect the background on "old school" dodging and burning will also help a lot of people.
The histogram range indicator on the "mask" tab was confusing, perhaps because of the bugs you mention when sometimes it is out of sync with the other tab. It made it hard for me to understand how the "mask exposure" and "mask contrast" compensation sliders worked. Your video cleared that up for me. I also understand now what the rest of the sliders do on the masking tab (filter diffusion, smoothing diameter, etc).
Wouldn't it make more sense if the "masking" tab was the first (leftmost) tab for the "tone equalizer" module? It seems to me that you should start with the mask before trying to adjust the nodes on the curve.
Not sure about the best order for tabs, I think having the true controls first gives a better idea of the purpose of the module straight away. Ideally, the masking tab should become more and more automated as versions go by.
@ Exactly, automating it would help a lot. Why don't you automatically set mask exposure and contrast compensation, so the mask fills the whole x-axis of the histogram?
This would also make the simple sliders usable in all situations.
@@armanuki38911 Because contrast and exposure rely on max/min pixels values, and those depend on the scaling of the picture (down-scaling has an averaging/blurring effect), so, depending on the export size or display preview, the automatic way would fail to produce the same output. It's really not simple, and needs to be thought carefully.
That was long, I watched in 5 parts, but finally understood the purpose of tone equalizer. Thank you very, very much!
Thank you Aurélien, this video presents the concept and theory very well. I might have to re-watch it but it certainly clarifies a lot. You have done awesome work with taking darktable ahead in its development!💯👍🏻😎
Excellent presentation. The concepts were made very understandable.
This was extraordinarily helpful! Thank you for taking the time to put this together. It gave me a better understanding of the tone equalizer module, sure, but it also helped me to better understand the exposure module and filmic RGB. I'm slightly less lost now.
I really like your videos !
In depth theory followed by good examples.
Thanks
"I compiled darktable with Clang (instead of the usual GCC) and the demo is just as buggy as a Microsoft Keynote." Hahahahah ^_^
Salut Aurélien, merci beaucoup pour la vidéo, j'utilisais clairement pas ce module à son plein potentiel alors qu'il a l'air hyper puissant.
Une remarque cependant sur quelque chose qui m'a énormément confus quand j'ai commencé à utiliser le module : le nommage des onglets "simple" et "avancé" donne l'impression que le "simple" s'adresse aux débutants (d'autant plus que c'est le premier onglet qui s'ouvre) et le "avancé" aux utilisateurs experts. Or, comme tu le dis dans ta vidéo (et je m'en étais rendu compte avant ça en galèrant comme un fou avec l'onglet "simple" que je pensais approprié pour le débutant que je suis), l'onglet "avancé" va être plus adapté dans la plupart des cas, et la visualisation via l'histogramme est très utile. Je sais pas si c'est une remarque qui a déjà été faite, mais je pense que d'un point de vue UX ça serait un vrai boost pour ce module. Merci et bonne journée !
Wow - what an excellent video. So good to understand the relationship and work flow between filmic/exposure/tone equalizer. I went back to re-edit some photos I was having trouble with and used your suggested approach of: 18% filmic; global whites/blacks; exposure; fine tune filmic; tone equalizer with opposite EV adjustment as exposure; local dodge/burn. It really works well! Thank you very much!
Manny manny thanks for this video Pierre. Really instructive. Still learning to get the module optimal for my images. Takes pratice. But this video brings more understanding. Hope to see more of these videos. Lot of succes with the fine tuning. of the modules.
Thank you. Very helpful.
Hey there Aurélien, I'be been learning Darktable the past few weeks trying to break free of the Adobe prison, I'm an advanced Lightroom user (been using it since version 1.4) but lately I hate the "subscription" based payments and also I have seen that darktable is incredibly powerful and versatile.
I know that maybe You don't have the answer for this, but I haven't found a word in any forum: I run Darktable in MacOS, and while I was watching your video on (this video) I saw that the cursor in your workflow is very precise and presents no lag, I started looking at other videos and for all users running Darktable in Linux or Windows it seems to work just perfect, but for me in MacOS it does not work the same the interactive cursor in modules such as Tone Equalizer is very laggy and this happens also with drawn masks, specially the brush masks, the cursor is very laggy.
Do you know how can I correct this or where can I find information about it.
Thank you very much.
I'm half-hour in and I already notice something: the "simple" tab is essentially useless ;)
1h in and the tab order should be reversed - you should start with mask and then do stuff on image/histogram(advanced tab). The "simple" tab is still useless ;)
Couple general questions:
how do you auto-appy lens correction always? Simply have it enabled and not match camera/lens/focal/f-stop combo? same to other 2 - local contrast and filmic rgb - do you enable them with "defaults"?
I think I need to re-watch filmic rgb one. I still don't get why default for module is 9.23% while you always start with 18.45% grey luminance.
With 2nd pic - you have way more options in WB presets than I do... Is it because darktable lacks info/presets for Canon EOS 77D I use the most? If so I sure need to create them :)
General comments (esp samples):
I agree with your recent topic on discuss.pixls.us, especially on topic of learning/results. In 1st sample (sunset) you've mentioned real/unreal look. I used similar example in my recent talk with my local photo group regarding photo-editing and especially raw editing: first make sure it looks "real" as in - what you saw. Only then you can enable your creativity and make something you want to show.
The simple tab is useful when you want to take control over one particular channel whithout blending the correction into the closest channels. It's not useful all the time, but sometimes needed.
The 9.23% grey by default in filmic is to please the crowd who expects the RAW image to "look like the OOC JPEG" straight away. That's ok for lightweight editings, but heavy-duty ones will benefit from anchoring the grey at 18% (see why : discuss.pixls.us/t/filmic-adjusting-with-levels-vs-exposure-module/16341/2?u=aurelienpierre).
@ Thank you, that explains it perfectly! So regarding tab order that still says to me that all it'd take to make it more of straightforward experience would be to reverse tab order into: mask, connected-editing and sliders :)
Other than this for anybody looking: auto-apply lens correction is done by enabling lens correction without modifying anything and creating auto-applied preset. Works flawlessly and it's a neat trick!
Thank you for this tutorial!
You are amazing!
You too.
Thank you for making this very comprehensive video. It's given me a much greater understanding of the tone equaliser and helped to speed up processing of some of my photos. Also made me realise that it's not always the best tool for all situations. Thank you also for the huge amount of work you have put into the development of dt.
Thank you so much for your efforts in adding very interesting modules to dt and for sharing your thoughts about the module.
Does anyone knows a tutorial of how to compile dt from source code since it's badly lagging on my pc?
Bonjour Aurélien, cette vidéo est tout simplement incroyable! malgré tout je ne suis pas parvenu à trouver comment on incurve la courbe de dégradé, pourrais-tu m'indiquer la séquence de touches à utiliser ? (apparemment je ne peux que modifier l'opacité ou agrandir/rétrécir la zone de dégradé...) Merci d'avance et merci aux traducteurs pour les sous-titres en français, ça m'aide énormément.
Pour le dégradé, il suffit seulement de scroller avec la roulette de la souris sur la forme, après l'avoir dessinée.
@ Bizarre chez moi sur 2 PC différents (1 Windows et 1 Linux) ça ne fonctionne pas comme dans ta vidéo (12:50) Lorsque je tourne la molette, selon ou je me trouve, soit ça zoom, soit ça agrandit ou rétrécie la zone de dégradé... 😕
@@Photard26 alors c'est possible que ça n'arrive que dans dt 3.0.1. Moi je suis sur la master, c'est pour ça.
@ Veinard! enfin tu le mérites amplement.
Very helpful! Thanks a lot!
As far as I can tell you always set Filmic to near 18% grey whereas in the past I saw filmic used to "decide" what should be middle gray through selection and remap the histogram around that. Is there an advantage to using exposure to "remap" middle gray versus using filmic to do so?
See discuss.pixls.us/t/filmic-adjusting-with-levels-vs-exposure-module/16341/2
Thank you for the video and all the work you put into Darktable, Aurélien!
One suggestion though: while I completely understand your desire to explain the reasoning behind your decisions, I don't think it's a good idea to mix this reasoning with the actual how-to information. The average user is happy to accept your decision as they are - if he only understands how to apply the module, since this is what he's really interested in. So maybe you could split it into two videos: one how-to and one for the reasoning? And it would be nice if the tone equalizer and its elements would be covered in the manual.
I always mix the reasons with the how-to because it's usually easier to understand how to use the tool (and adapt your use) if you understand what problem it solves and where it comes from. Most of the advice I give is conditional to the context of using, and users sucking recipes without understanding the reasons behind can't adapt my advice to different conditions if needed, which is really bad for them and for me (I can't redo a tuto showing how to use the tool ini every situation, and I shouldn't have to if things have been understood). Just "understanding how to use" is not understanding at all, and backfires really fast. If users just want the "how-to", it's not TV-broadcasting, they can switch directly to the appropriate time-code.
I wonder, is it recommended to set middle grey luminance of the scene panel in filmic rgb to 18.45 or some value close to it?
generally, yes.
I like the clever interface of the tone equalizer module. However in my experience the mask controls are really unpredictable and I can never get the mask how I need. I find I have more success with exposure + feathered drawn/parametric mask. Why not just always re-scale the mask to fill the entire histogram? Is there a use case against that?
> Why not just always re-scale the mask to fill the entire histogram?
Because the histogram depends on the image scale, since interpolation averages pixels. With auto histogram scaling, you wouldn't have the same settings depending on the zooming factor.
There are known maths issues with the guided filter, that explain the issue with predictability of mask. Namely, the blurring is more intense in shadows rather than highlights. These are theorical issues that need to be dealt with on the maths level, before even thinking about software implementation.
@ Thank you for the elaborate reply. :)
I would like to see the zone system operate like Silver Efex Pro 2, where I can pick specific zones, and make changes to them and they blend into adjacent zone.
How is that different from a masked exposure compensation ?
@ Not sure, I'll check into it. I am looking at Darktable again looking for a Silver Efex Pro 2 replacement, but I think I am also confusing some control point useage with it.
A quand la traduction en français 🙏🙏🙏
Les sous-titres en français sont disponibles.