Hi Mikey, one thing I will take issue with here is the use of the words "new equipment/new technology" (5'58") when referring to this kit - the Grillon is over 25 years old (the Grigri is 30 next year and the Grillon came along shortly after if memory serves). This is not new kit, it has been around for decades - certainly as long/longer than the ID... While I also agree that techs should be able to operate without grillons, and there are skill sets that we can;t afford to lose (counterbalancing etc), if we apply the same principle to our other kit then we would all still be doing classic abseils on hemp ropes...
I'd like to see a bunch of levels 1's ab down a steep bank with a hemp rope using body belay techniques and then with a pear and italian hitch... do a knot pass on that with a boot lace!
Ok fair! Yes it’s not new. But it’s also not something that have been using for that long... Canada is a little slow when it comes to getting with the times. Haha
@@questionableabsanity I wouldn't, not a necessity, problem solving is the key, but this is such a toxic and negative statement against being a level 1 (idc, but someone will)
@@nathanburke8387 Hmmm wasn't meant to be toxic towards level 1's. I'm pretty sure any level 1's that are sat there thinking "i can do that" are also thinking "although most probably couldn't" simultaneously. Totally agree about the problem solving skills though. it may also be a generational/poverty thing where older/poorer people grew up without the equipment and had to make do, and thus problem solving was a selection process early on... now there is a tool for everything (partly coz the industry is full of people who try to come up with better ways to do things) and it is rapidly becoming more about capital than about problem solving 'skills'. won't be long before they replace rope techs with robots and a vr head set and controller.
It took us 1 hour to learn how to use the grion and then self educated from there i work in the Crane and rigging Industry and i love mine building towercranes
Hi Mikey, being in a capitalism world obviously not every company will provide the high end gear and I get your point but one thing I tell my students is that maybe having a grillon on every kit is unreasonable but having one available in case a rescue is needed or having one available for the technician performing aid climbing shouldn’t be that hard to justify to our employers.
I agree. But not every company is in a position to afford them. Also, it’s not always the employers job to provide gear. So if you are working for a company that you have to pay out of pocket. You have to play a game, what’s the better bang for your buck..
I agree Jonathan. Another scenario where a grillon is justified is when the level III is aid climbing to set ropes for the crew composed level I's. It isn't always piratical to trail ropes aiding climbing in descent or efficient, etc. Thanks Mikey for keeping these conversations going!
I love the grillion, it makes life alot easyer as soon as your not just do dropps all day. I change my kitt a bitt depending on the jobb. Started working offshore in Norway in 2019 so converted my IRATA to SOFT and then they use grillions instead of cowstails. The main thing i use it for is positioning and aid climbing. One of my first jobbs was 95% aid climbing and then 2 grillions and 1 cowtail a must. Agree that as a level 3 you have to know to do everything with minimal equipment.
Thank you for your comment. It is a great peace of gear in the right situation and adjusting your kit based on the scope of work is what’s expected of a technician. But to many people rely on it. So I will never go away from training with the minimum. Cheers Mikey
Another good session there Mikey with some valuable insights into our industry.. 👌🏽 I’m also a progress adjust advocate for my personal kit.. and can only wish that more companies provided Grillions as part of the basic R.A. kit. cheers for the Vortex shoutouts and I’m happy to hear they’re on a site where they’re regularly needed 👍🏼
I agree that you don't need a grillon as a main equipment of your kit. However aid climbing equal 2 grillons . Yes you can aid climb without them but progressing through aid climbing sections is extremely easier & quicker with the use of grillons or any equivalent. I've worked for 3 companies in the last 8 years and grillons or equivalent were always made available if needed. I also think it's in the best interest of any rope access company to supply appropriate equipment for the job. It makes it safer & increases production.
Im not disagreeing. Aid climbing with them is forsurely the way to go. I even kind of touch on that in the video. Also, it’s not always up to the company to provide the gear. So that’s another factor
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 I'm located in Montreal and all rope access companies supply all the safety equipment except for work boots. I have friends from France where rope access technician must supply their harnesses descenders ascenders. Is it like that out west?
"someone else is carrying it for me" da fuck... I for one like to have a Grillo a basic and a pully with me at all times, cause I want to be able to rescue my co-worker on any "basic" rescue cenario that might happen during work, without shouting around for equipment I need to borrow when shit hits the fan. Yes you should always rig for rescue, but that is not allways the case on some simple stuff. a grillon can be used in so many creative ways you don't even know, only ur imagination sets the limit. Yes some of these cenarios are highly unlikely, but you should allways be ready for everything when it's a matter of your colleagues life
Agreed, you should be ready for any situation and in doing so, you should have to gear you need. Plus in most cases, I have worked for companies where you cant use them. So you have to learn how to do all the same skills with less gear. Don't get me wrong if you have to gear use it. But if you don't have the gear you better know how to still do what's required of you. Thank you for your comment. Cheers Mikey
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 Yes of course, it's only beneficial to learn how to do things without a specific equipment in different cenarios, it only adds to you toolbox of methods and understanding of rope access equipment in general. But that don't mean beeing able to do it without a grillon makes it more efficient. Beeing able to just pull the handle or pull the loose end to adjust makes it very efficient and time saving when it matters. It is bulky and it weights little more then alternatives, but I'm not a mountainneer im a industrial climber. If your company don't supply it in your kit, that's another story, I was more referring to the job you were on at the moment, since obviously you had grillon in your kit. Just don't agree with your reasoning to not use it right there and then which was "bulky and someone els is carrying it for me"
Love the grillon, did my level 2 training heavily relaying on it and after that I self though myself to not use them. Good choice because now I leave and work in Japan where grillon are not provided at all by companies and I pretty much have to buy all my PPE. Plus doing a double deviation pass w/ casualty is rather cool without grillons 😉. I honestly miss don't using them for efficiency and speed reasons of course! But I rather invest my money in other devices like ropes, anchor systems ( anyone here exited for the #eyolf URU?? ) and rope protection in general. The idea that the guy in my team will probably panic to rescue me because I am on an aid climb with lanyards and chest ascender instead of grillons is quite intimidating as well. It's all about be ready and perform rescues inside our "comfort zone" to do them safely and fast!
It doesn't seem that your problem is with the grillon, it is with the inconsistent availability of them meaning people that use them need to be trained both with and without them. That said I think they are great for aid climbing or not rope access rigging and climbing sort of work.
I would have to agree with you. I think it’s a great peace of kit. If properly understood. And if the person can carry out the task without it. It’s all about knowing the basics before knowing how to do the fancy tricks
Hi Mikey, one thing I will take issue with here is the use of the words "new equipment/new technology" (5'58") when referring to this kit - the Grillon is over 25 years old (the Grigri is 30 next year and the Grillon came along shortly after if memory serves). This is not new kit, it has been around for decades - certainly as long/longer than the ID... While I also agree that techs should be able to operate without grillons, and there are skill sets that we can;t afford to lose (counterbalancing etc), if we apply the same principle to our other kit then we would all still be doing classic abseils on hemp ropes...
I'd like to see a bunch of levels 1's ab down a steep bank with a hemp rope using body belay techniques and then with a pear and italian hitch... do a knot pass on that with a boot lace!
Ok fair! Yes it’s not new. But it’s also not something that have been using for that long...
Canada is a little slow when it comes to getting with the times. Haha
@@questionableabsanity I wouldn't, not a necessity, problem solving is the key, but this is such a toxic and negative statement against being a level 1 (idc, but someone will)
@@nathanburke8387 Hmmm wasn't meant to be toxic towards level 1's. I'm pretty sure any level 1's that are sat there thinking "i can do that" are also thinking "although most probably couldn't" simultaneously. Totally agree about the problem solving skills though. it may also be a generational/poverty thing where older/poorer people grew up without the equipment and had to make do, and thus problem solving was a selection process early on... now there is a tool for everything (partly coz the industry is full of people who try to come up with better ways to do things) and it is rapidly becoming more about capital than about problem solving 'skills'. won't be long before they replace rope techs with robots and a vr head set and controller.
It took us 1 hour to learn how to use the grion and then self educated from there i work in the Crane and rigging Industry and i love mine building towercranes
Hi Mikey, being in a capitalism world obviously not every company will provide the high end gear and I get your point but one thing I tell my students is that maybe having a grillon on every kit is unreasonable but having one available in case a rescue is needed or having one available for the technician performing aid climbing shouldn’t be that hard to justify to our employers.
I agree. But not every company is in a position to afford them. Also, it’s not always the employers job to provide gear. So if you are working for a company that you have to pay out of pocket. You have to play a game, what’s the better bang for your buck..
I agree Jonathan. Another scenario where a grillon is justified is when the level III is aid climbing to set ropes for the crew composed level I's. It isn't always piratical to trail ropes aiding climbing in descent or efficient, etc. Thanks Mikey for keeping these conversations going!
I love the grillion, it makes life alot easyer as soon as your not just do dropps all day. I change my kitt a bitt depending on the jobb.
Started working offshore in Norway in 2019 so converted my IRATA to SOFT and then they use grillions instead of cowstails.
The main thing i use it for is positioning and aid climbing. One of my first jobbs was 95% aid climbing and then 2 grillions and 1 cowtail a must.
Agree that as a level 3 you have to know to do everything with minimal equipment.
Thank you for your comment.
It is a great peace of gear in the right situation and adjusting your kit based on the scope of work is what’s expected of a technician. But to many people rely on it.
So I will never go away from training with the minimum.
Cheers
Mikey
Another good session there Mikey with some valuable insights into our industry.. 👌🏽
I’m also a progress adjust advocate for my personal kit.. and can only wish that more companies provided Grillions as part of the basic R.A. kit.
cheers for the Vortex shoutouts and I’m happy to hear they’re on a site where they’re regularly needed 👍🏼
Thank you for the comment sir.
I agree that you don't need a grillon as a main equipment of your kit. However aid climbing equal 2 grillons . Yes you can aid climb without them but progressing through aid climbing sections is extremely easier & quicker with the use of grillons or any equivalent.
I've worked for 3 companies in the last 8 years and grillons or equivalent were always made available if needed. I also think it's in the best interest of any rope access company to supply appropriate equipment for the job. It makes it safer & increases production.
Im not disagreeing. Aid climbing with them is forsurely the way to go. I even kind of touch on that in the video.
Also, it’s not always up to the company to provide the gear.
So that’s another factor
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 I'm located in Montreal and all rope access companies supply all the safety equipment except for work boots. I have friends from France where rope access technician must supply their harnesses descenders ascenders. Is it like that out west?
All oil and gas stuff is supplied.
City work is up in the air. Some supply others dont
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 ho my!
That can become very expensive thanks.
Very very expensive
"someone else is carrying it for me" da fuck... I for one like to have a Grillo a basic and a pully with me at all times, cause I want to be able to rescue my co-worker on any "basic" rescue cenario that might happen during work, without shouting around for equipment I need to borrow when shit hits the fan. Yes you should always rig for rescue, but that is not allways the case on some simple stuff. a grillon can be used in so many creative ways you don't even know, only ur imagination sets the limit. Yes some of these cenarios are highly unlikely, but you should allways be ready for everything when it's a matter of your colleagues life
Agreed, you should be ready for any situation and in doing so, you should have to gear you need.
Plus in most cases, I have worked for companies where you cant use them. So you have to learn how to do all the same skills with less gear.
Don't get me wrong if you have to gear use it.
But if you don't have the gear you better know how to still do what's required of you.
Thank you for your comment.
Cheers
Mikey
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 Yes of course, it's only beneficial to learn how to do things without a specific equipment in different cenarios, it only adds to you toolbox of methods and understanding of rope access equipment in general. But that don't mean beeing able to do it without a grillon makes it more efficient. Beeing able to just pull the handle or pull the loose end to adjust makes it very efficient and time saving when it matters. It is bulky and it weights little more then alternatives, but I'm not a mountainneer im a industrial climber. If your company don't supply it in your kit, that's another story, I was more referring to the job you were on at the moment, since obviously you had grillon in your kit. Just don't agree with your reasoning to not use it right there and then which was "bulky and someone els is carrying it for me"
Love the grillon, did my level 2 training heavily relaying on it and after that I self though myself to not use them. Good choice because now I leave and work in Japan where grillon are not provided at all by companies and I pretty much have to buy all my PPE. Plus doing a double deviation pass w/ casualty is rather cool without grillons 😉. I honestly miss don't using them for efficiency and speed reasons of course! But I rather invest my money in other devices like ropes, anchor systems ( anyone here exited for the #eyolf URU?? ) and rope protection in general.
The idea that the guy in my team will probably panic to rescue me because I am on an aid climb with lanyards and chest ascender instead of grillons is quite intimidating as well. It's all about be ready and perform rescues inside our "comfort zone" to do them safely and fast!
It doesn't seem that your problem is with the grillon, it is with the inconsistent availability of them meaning people that use them need to be trained both with and without them.
That said I think they are great for aid climbing or not rope access rigging and climbing sort of work.
I would have to agree with you.
I think it’s a great peace of kit. If properly understood.
And if the person can carry out the task without it.
It’s all about knowing the basics before knowing how to do the fancy tricks
Umm