I live in NYC, studied psychology, and I've been involuntarily committed. In fact, I've filed a lawsuit concerning it. There's so much research on the detrimental effects of involuntary commitment. There should be strenuous standards, even more strenuous than NY has in place, before deciding to put someone through that situation. There are obvious scenarios in which people need help. Hell, my roommate's hookup tried killing himself in our apartment. There's a place for that, but it's incredibly obvious when it is. Homelessness is not a standard to take away someone's freedom.
He's confusing drug addiction and drug induced psychosis for mental illness. And sorta threatening to break all kinds of laws but...sure. It worked well for everyone when that German guy did it.
People with the kind of illnesses you describe do not tend to seek medical help even in the early stages.The police must be accompanied by a psychiatrist who can make a proper assessment regarding the need for involuntary committment. And the individual must immediately be provided with a lawyer. Police don't have the skill set to make these determinations.
What group will be next? As for psychiatrists/psychologists/whomever; were they not PRESENT in Guantanamo Bay assessing whether water-boarding, electrifying genitalia et al were "humane" methods of torture? The use of force by one imperfect human upon another is something I have a MAJOR PROBLEM WITH.
you're not immediately provided a lawyer when you're arrested and you won't be immediately be given a lawyer for this... as someone that's been involuntarily committed in California I seen a lawyer twice in 7 days... once after my initial 72hr hold was extended and then again a couple days later before I got out...
When they went from state to state closing all of the state-funded mental health institutions, they set all of those people out into the streets and now we're dealing with this overwhelming problem. It happened when I was a child in the late 80's. They closed them all, and then ushered in the age of group homes. Which were often underfunded, and understaffed. The staff that was usually there was under trained, and completely unavailable to sincerely help the clients in their care. They know what happened and how we got here.
Big pharma made million in prescription drugs and doctors became quite wealthy when drugs pushed psychotic patients into the community without a home to return to and without support services. Gross neglect, and indifference to human sorrow is on display. The rich escape to their ivory towers and drink champagne.
Imagine giving an already out of control, violent and dangerous at times, retaliatory gang of thugs the ability to have you committed on sight....OF COURSE, THEY WON'T ABUSE THAT...SMH
This is one of the problems with having police, rather than mental health professionals, interacting with troubled people. Those professionals have had YEARS of study and training. A few weekend trainings are not a substitute for this. Let's not start punishing people before a crime has been committed. Would we accept that if the police didn't say there was a "mental health" issue? Furthermore, while we treat many mental illnesses with pharmaceuticals, we don't know the causality for many mental illnesses, nor why certain drugs work when they do (they often don't). Finally, how is there dignity in removing choices from someone who has not been judged incompetent by the court? Who gets to decide how often you have to shower, or how long you can live in a tent, before you are denied your rights?
Ana as somebody that worked in the NYC subway system for almost 32 years, I can say there are some folks that need to be involuntarily committed. Eric’s plan needs to be better fleshed out but I support it.
As someone who sometimes struggle with suicide I'm very scared of this getting out of hand and a future were I'm premonitory committed. I take my meds. I go to a day program. I see a therapist. I do what I need to do to stay out of the hospital. I'm not a danger to anyone else. I enjoy the freedom I have. And when I need to I reach out for help. Should I be committed. That is the future I see with this. I do agree that someone people need to be committed. I'm scared that I'm going to be one of them.
that's not what this law is about at all... if you can take care of yourself and aren't a danger to yourself or others you have nothing to worry about...
I agree Naomi. Regardless of the intentions of those involved, this could easily be used to subvert other aspects of your legal rights, and without appropriate legislation, oversight and tangible penalties, many inappropriate commitments will happen. Look at the mess the various arms of US police forces (sheriffs, rangers, city, state and federal, etc) have all been in over recent years. Qualified immunity has to be abolished before even considering expanding the authority of police. I can relate to your situation and feel that an institutional commitment would be far more life threatening than being left to my own devices. [I have no weapons or other *devices* designed to inflict harm! Unless you count a sharp tongue or razor sharp wit)].
@@Xubono You sound paranoid. I've been involuntarily committed, my rights weren't violated, I actually got the help I needed so stfu because you don't know what you're talking about.
@@Xubono thank you. I appreciate that you understand. I'm super scared about this. And conceding the resent history of the police abusing there power I have even more to fear now. Especially since I'm also a member of the LGBTQ community. I'm super scared about my future. No matter what happens with this. Anyway thank you for understanding.
@@aaronelijahcolyer I am glad you got the help you needed and it worked out for you. I am not paranoid, nor am I interested in trading insults. My response was part of the conversation started by Ana. I don’t believe that a police force already famous for brutality are the most appropriate people to help people with mental health problems.
There is no treatment there. Speaking as someone with firsthand experience who committed themselves because they were feeling suicidal, they just adjust your meds and maybe schedule you an appointment with a therapist. Then they send you on your way and for most of these folks as soon as they run out of meds they're back to square one.
same with my exp. there was no treatment. it was just waiting to be assigned a doctor, maybe talk about a plan, and good luck if that actually happens after.
An example of it going terribly wrong is the woman who ended up spending a week in a mental health facility because the police thought it was unbalanced to dance in your car seat to the radio.
This shit is why I keep my mental health issues and crisis events under official radar. Don’t want to be shot, jailed or committed when all I need is help. Disgusting that people have to live under the worry of being snatched up and locked down per Mayoral order.
This is why I keep my mental issues to myself. Police already messed with me once and put me in jail, made me sit in a cell butt naked for 24 hours because they couldn’t find a hospital to bring me. This was in Rochester, NY. Never spoke about my mental issues with anyone since then. I don’t know how this will really work out when police already abuse the system.
what if someone with mental health issues is being taken care of by family and goes outside and talks to themself and a cop sees them. is that cop gonna grab them and take them away? that would be horrifying for the person and the family when their family member does not come home.
I lived on the street for more than 5 years and I have to say I think a lot of what people think their fellow human beings need in distress isn't commitment to some kind of institution, it's the basic decency and safety that every human being needs, and I've seen those basic things provided to people who were essentially catatonic or unable to verbally communicate with others go just a few days having shelter and food provided, being surrounded by people that they trusted and felt safe around, and revert back to a self that is coherent and compassionate and alert. 50 beds isn't enough, a thousand beds isn't enough. It should be illegal to make being homeless illegal.
Can’t just put someone in the hospital if they are fine ,, ppl are stressed in NYC so if they seem the person is stressed or looks crazy they will grab you up & throw you in a hospital!! NY is getting out of control & that’s why I’m out here everyday watching the NYPD !!
Well they said they would allow them to use camera phones or whatever device to contact doctors to find out if this something they can do if it doesn't meet that requirement I'm sure they'll let u go.
TLDR: The involuntary psychiatric law in Sweden, and how it works. I work as a psychiatry nurse in Sweden. We have a law for involuntary psychiatric care, called LPT (Lagen om psykiatrisk tvångsvård). Here it works that any doctor can decide to keep a person involuntary for max 24 h. During these 24 h we're allowed to restrict their movement to our locked wards and are not allowed to start long term medical treatment. Within 24 h a separate doctor, a psychiatrist, evaluates if the person needs LPT. There are 3 criteria for LPT; the person have a severe psychiatric syndrome or episode, the person need psychiatric care, and the person refuses the care. At both evaluations this is tried. After this we can start long term medical treatment or structure up the care. The goal is to make the person either not needing in-hospital care or that the person voluntaries to the care. After an LPT have been decided on, a psychiatrist can remove it any time he/she wants, but the LPT only lasts 3 months. If the psychiatrist wants to prolong the LPT it goes to a court hearing, and the court decides if the LPT will continue for an additional 3 months. The person under LPT gets their own lawyer (public defender) which works for the patient against the hospital. The courts have an impartial psychiatrist to give advice to the court about the medical/psychiatric evaluation. The patient can also make formal objection to things with the LPT, in which case there's a court hearing for that. The National Board of Health and Welfare is also involved to evaluate procedures and care on a national level. This law is used for say suicidal, psychotic episodes, live threatening eating disorder, and so on. It can't be used for say homelessness. And the police have no say in this. The police can take persons involuntarily to the hospital, but their mandate ends at our doors. This has caused some frustration with our local police where they take in a person that is about to jump from a bridge, and a couple of hours latter they have to respond to the same person at the same bridge. But when that person was evaluated by the doctor the person didn't fulfill the 3 criteria of LPT. And in Sweden private actors can't involuntary house people, so this is only for governmental hospitals. There's also a possibility to covert voluntary care to involuntary and to have involuntary out of hospital care (and some other involuntary laws for specific things), but those are more complicated.
It's going to make a lot of people avoid seeking any sort of mental health treatment. The wrong people are going to be "punished" by this. Negligent in involving police!
I'm one of those mental health workers and your is the process in most areas. Unfortunately most hospitals don't have enough needs. A couple of decades ago many of the state hospitals were closed across the country, which meant less beds for the mentally ill.
I can't understand how the NYC Mayor thinks that "50 extra hospital beds" will be anywhere enough to handle the large amount of mentally ill people that the cops will now be bringing in off the streets.
I was involuntarily committed for 7 and a 1/2 days outside my apartment because I made a joke to my therapist. 2 cops came to my apartment and called the paramedics who took me to Coney Island Hospital and kept mw in psyche for 7.5 days including the 72 hour mandatory evaluation. You dont even need to have an episode a therapist that isn't even your therapist can call the cops on you when you make a joke they dont like. This was in 2019 new years eve day Dec 31st in the early afternoon. On January 3rd I had an art show that I missed because I was locked up in psyche. Yeah locked up, bars on windows, elevator door padlocked so no escape no way out only the psychiatrist on duty has your freedom in his hands.
What ended up happening with your therapist after that?? Jesus christ. I’ve been in a psych ward twice but both times I CHOSE to go, and it was STILL traumatic feeling so trapped and being treated badly by nurses. That sounds so horrible. I’m so sorry.
I’m a career paramedic. I have seen stories like yours, except that the person is released within a few hours after talking to the doctor. I’m curious as to why after your first conversation with the doctor you were held for 72 hours, and then a further 4 days after that. Is it possible they felt you were manic?
@@jimmybaggs5342 I didn’t get to see a doctor until my 3rd day in. I was so out of it after the cocktail the nurses gave me that I slept for 3 days. I wasn’t manic I was scared I had my dog with me in the ER my emotional support animal. When the paramedics brought me in they got me into the ambulance by threatening my dog. They said they would have to take the dog to a shelter if I don’t go to Coney Island hospital the only hospital according to them that let patients into the ER with their pets. I begged not to be taken to that hospital because of the horror stories we read about and personal experience. But by threatening my dog with a kill shelter they convinced me to go. I didn’t know my rights I could have just gone inside my apartment and locked the door and called a lawyer friend. But the paramedics were so aggressively mentally steering me to that hospital especially with the seeming threats to my pet that I took a chance. There were 3 paramedics that showed up and when I got into the ambulance they had one on each exit door so that I wouldn’t run I’m assuming. I told them I changed my mind and they threatened me with calling the cops again to call for another amy ambulance. They were angry or acted angry and agitated not me I was docile and crying with a small lap dog on my lap on the bench in the ambulance. That was the beginning of my horror, nightmare. What happened in the hospital is way worse. From the time they brought me to the ER to my discharge 7.5 days later and beyond and still I am physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually hurt and feel like I am not gonna get any Justice.
@@ellabrand I am sorry that happened to you. I’m a paramedic in Canada, our system is different. Here, bringing a service animal into any hospital is a protected human right.
As a Social Worker living and working in NYC, this is an absolutely ridiculous idea and won't work. This _program_ will be done with before the year is over.
It's hard to not label these people as Nazis, when they behave exactly like the Nazis did. Doing it "for their own good" was how the Nazis excused it. I wonder which group will be next...
I recall my family forcefully admitting me saying I was having a “crazy bipolar episode”. after I was released I never spoke to my family again. and staff does not give a crap about you. good luck waiting to speak to anyone while you’re admitted. it’s not going to last.
I am a hospital social worker in Pennsylvania and I am baffled by the assumptions baked in to this policy. First, there is an assumption that people with mental illness are violent toward others. Although we do see this at times, it is more often that we see violence and neglect toward ones self. Secondly, I am concerned about the assumptions related to hospital capacity. In my county, it is not uncommon for an involuntarily committed patient to wait days in an emergency room for a psychiatric bed to become available. 50 beds is laughable, most counties already need more beds than that without increas in demand. I also have concerns about the capacity of mental health courts to review each case after the 72 hold as each patient is entitled to be seen by a judge to extend or terminate the petition. I am also concerned about the perceived value of an involuntary hold for someone that is functioning at baseline. Symptom improvement in a short involuntary stay is often minimal, the goal is simply to help a patient stabilize and navigate a crisis. If the person is already functioning at baseline, I'm not sure what an involuntary hold would accomplish. Lastly, involuntary commitments are not pretty. People are often angry, frustrated and defensive when they are told they are being ordered to do something. I am worried that police will try to detain people, see defensive behavior and instead of taking them to a hospital, taking them to jail and charging them with a crime if they act aggressively. When the state institutions closed, we saw an increase in mental health patients in prisons. I am worried this policy could be a new era of mass incarceration. Lastly, I wonder what the discharge plan would be. At my hospital, we help people secure outpatient treatment, Medicaid, housing/shelter, transportation and access to primary care. Why can't a social worker just meet with the individual in the community and help them with these needs? Why take them to the hospital at all? There are so many better solutions than forcing people that can't afford care to be committed to hospital beds that do not exist. I want to know who he consulted with when he developed this legislation, it wasn't anyone in my field.
Also, being involunarily commitment might negatively effect the willingness of the patient to participate in the treatment and/ or their willingness to seek any treatment after such a horrible experience. It is often difficult enough already to seek help for psychological problems, forcing people into treatment will not help.
I have rarely seen a 72 hour hold even be looked at by a judge. Its a joke and these poor people are given deadly antidepressants and psycotropics... A judge does Not even hear cases to hold patients past the 72 hours.. All patients names are put before the judge and just stamped.. There are no conversations about each patient.
I live in Queens and I see mental health problems every day. I've seen people that definitely need help but their illness tells them they're fine and everyone else is sick. They refuse help and say they're fine. Unfortunately we can't just make them get help unless they're in danger or are a risk to themselves or others. I suffer from mental illness and I know how it can affect my entire personality. I'm lucky my illness doesn't require me to take any medication, but I do go to a therapist every week and it's helped more than I could've hoped. It was difficult for me to figure out why I was having the thoughts and feelings I was having and I also suffered from addiction to drugs which really made things much worse. It got so bad that I tried to kill myself twice in three days. The first one was a real attempt to kill myself, but the second was a cry for help. Thankfully I got the help I needed before it was too late. If you or someone you know is suffering from mental health problems I suggest seeing a therapist. It feels great to talk to someone that understands your problem and can explain it to you. Knowing why you're not functioning like you used to can be a relief.
Only in America do people think the homeless have more of a right to die on the sidewalk than to be admitted to a mental institution. No other first world country does this. It is NOT a human rights violation to help the sick who will never seek help on their own because of their illness. We should’ve never deinstitutionalized, it’s more inhumane to watch sick people die on the streets.
You said it correctly it’s all about having the necessary resources. People that have these instances that you’re talking about either don’t have access to resources (funded Medicare ) or they choose not to access those resources so therefore someone has to step in and assist but if those resources aren’t in place , then those people end up being inhumanely parked in the hospital wing hallways or ignored in facilities for days , weeks, months because the resources aren’t there to address them. already it can take up to a year to get appointments with psychiatrists, so how do they propose to do that with only 50 beds?
Instead of committing them can't they just take them to a screening place and let someone do some kind of evaluation. And then get them the help they need. They're going to let COPS do this??? 😳😳🥺🥺😖😖😱😱🤯🤯🤯
In Florida the cops can Baker Act you for up to 72 hours. After that they have to let you go, or have a psychiatrist request more time. This is for evaluation. They cannot keep you locked up, you have to be hospitalized in some kind of facility. Hospital, mental health crisis center, or other appropriate location.
Ana, the biggest questions here are “where will the police and hospitals get the funding/training to care for these new mental health patients? Who will treat the influx of patients when the medical industry is already understaffed? Is this new program just for people living on the streets or does it include the mentality ill who are imprisoned?” I was hopeful for Mayor Adams when he came into office, but his half-assed plan only sounds nice with no substance (and of all problems in NYC, he chose to tackle an enormously complex one). I’m worried about the kind of treatment these people will receive and that this is a slippery slope for an arrest of bodily autonomy.
This would be fine if New York had like…five times as many psychiatric facilities as it currently does, and a huge ass budget for public healthcare-because the people being committed sure don’t
I agree that some individuals may well be in dire need of mental health intervention and this will be a good idea. BUT. It will be abused by police in order to further oppress "undesirables" or anyone the officers simply cannot be bothered to deal with. Never mind the possibilities available to the corrupt officers using this policy vindictively.
Now, if you get angry at an officer in New York he can simply say you're crazy and have you committed. Like when they put a gun to your head and call you a shine and tell you to dance. Don't lose your cool. You could be put in a straight jacket.
Many Germans did not want to be reminded of individuals who did not measure up to their concept of a "master race" and were considered "unfit" or "handicapped." People with physical and mental disabilities were viewed as "useless" to society, a threat to Aryan genetic purity, and, ultimately, "unworthy of life." At the beginning of World War II, individuals with mental or physical disabilities were targeted for murder in what the Nazis called the "T-4," or "euthanasia," program.
100%. They're not qualified. AND it shouldn't be their job, anyway. The chief of the Seattle police department recently said that at least 60% of their calls involved mental health crises and not crime.
Living in California if you seen some of things I’ve seen with people running around with a fishing rod screaming at the top of their lungs. Or walking into a store and seeing a man literally take his pants off, bend over and take a shit. This mayor might be on to something. I don’t agree with what he’s necessarily proposing. However, I often think to myself when I see things like this. “I really don’t think these people should be in public walking the streets among us. They should be taken to the hospital right away for evaluation.” I know it’s not funny and it’s sad. But it’s not normal behavior. It’s behavior that needs medical attention before something really bad happens to them or someone else. Just saying.
Also, a lot of these violent mentally ill aren’t always homeless so fixating only on the homeless isn’t a good idea. I notice a lot of people equating it with being homeless.
Imagine being locked up because an american cop sends a mobile clip to someone! This is dystopian. American cops shouldn't be responsible for the opinion on someone's mental state.....they don't have a good record on that, do they? It's been more of a quick-draw solution to the problem so far, and that won't change in my lifetime as far as I can see. For goodness sake, train your cops and change the cop culture. You shouldn't qualify as a cop just because you have a pulse.
What looks like a mental illness, may often be caused by a physiological ailment or injury. I speak from experience. Decades & resources can be lost, attempting to treat a mental health problem without treating its underlying cause. This said, it is not the job of a psychologist to say you need a neurologist. This terrifies me.
We are know what this is . This is stop and Frisk but only for the homeless. I don’t know what is worse it becoming a law or it coming from a Black mayor who if anybody should know what this means for black people. Vote him out
Dude if u don't actually live in the NYC area u need to slow the fuck down and take two steps back like a mofo! its a hot hell out there in those subways and in the streets.
As a New Yorker I'm not a fan of the mayor but I've been wanting them to do this for awhile. It's literally the same thing that was already happening before the pandemic started but they're announcing it this way to score points. The system was already in place but just not operating due to covid. Now all we need is 1. Cops to do their job and show up. 2. Making sure that when the violent crime takes place we hold them with bail and not treat violent crimes like non-violent ones. I think you do this and my city will be closer to what it was the last 20 years before the pandemic
nothing abusive about getting mentally ill people treatment... it would actually be abusive to leave them on the streets unable to properly care for themselves or being a danger to themselves or others... that would be a real abuse
I have major issues with cops deciding on a whim who is or isn't having a mental crisis. Also, they could be costing some of them a job if they are working and hauled off to a hospital not needing to be or if they are looking for a job now they have this on their record. This could be the one thing that could push them to an edge whether they were or not having a crisis. Unless you've ever been locked into a mental hospital you have NO idea how you get treated AND ABUSED in them places and sometime you do come out in worse than you went in or in this case forced against your will. I wouldn't want a badge and gun deciding shit for me especially an uncompassionate heartless pig!
I got the impression that this was regarding people so mentally ill that they couldn't care for themselves. Not people who have a mental disorder so mild that they can hold down a job. *edited to add* The severely mentally ill homeless population is the most vulnerable left on the streets to fend for themselves. They get robbed and beaten by other people living on the streets all the time. It's the severely mentally ill homeless people who are most likely to die from freezing to death in the winter.
Yes, because cops are well known for how sensitive and respectful they are. Couldn't possibly go wrong. They wouldn't possibly have black people hospitalized against their will without cause.
First, respect to your opinion. But just to give you another light to this, if I may. I’m from nyc too and in my opinion… yes, we need a policy in place. But this ain’t it. This policy will open up a Pandora’s box of brutal force. If we let this be, as sloppy as it is, it will bring the same involuntary capturing into our homes. I don’t trust the power move that Adams keeps pushing. Because as he has shown, again and again, it’s not about “us” or “we” it’s about “I” and “me”.
I don't live there but honestly I feel like here's a man tryin , and he has brought some thought and maybe hasn't given full details that's hard to give in one press conference but so far so good there brain storming , meanwhile what's the Republican answer to mental illness oh that's right there isn't one but let's kick the man who's at least committed to trying to solve a huge issue.
@@LolaJohnsonmusic I don’t think they’re gonna be snatching random people out of there houses now , but if they did , I’m sure that person will go through some psychiatric evaluation to determine if they are mentally ill or a threat to society . I think we need to get crazies off the streets to get them the help they need which In turn will make our streets safer . I think the pros of this outweigh the cons .
@@everretchancellor2243 exactly , there was a vote for mental health care in the house I believe , since republicans are always quick to say that mass shooters are just mentally I’ll people , yet no republican signed into this mental health bill that would allocate money for it.
@@alexurfantasy it kills me when a mass shooting occurs and then it's like damn now we gotta talk about guns again and mental illness and our deepest sympathy and condolences to the families of this tragic time in our country, but why bozo when you help pass responsible gun legislation and mental health care and try towards doing something that matters so you don't have sing the same song we've heard for so long.
The biggest problem I have with it is, who pays for it? How you would like to be involuntarily committed and then when you get out, get slapped with a $7000 medical bill for the 4 days you spent there? Or, are tax payers footing the bill? In which case, if we have money to involuntarily commit people to an expensive hospital stay, why don't we have enough money to put homeless people into cheap housing? This also can act as a secondary form of incarceration. "He's not breaking the law, there is nothing we can do about it." "I got an idea.....Hey, buddy....you feeling alright? You need a doctor? NO! Well, too bad, you're coming with us."
So glad she brought up that strange lady in the background at 8:35 I felt so uncomfortable watching the lady in the red try to balance her thoughts between smiling, serious concern, and confusion hahaha what was she thinking
I just talked to a nurse that said they had to release a homeless man that had been in the hospital due to mental illness for the las two years and had sabotaged every effort to get him into housing, he became so violent that they had to release him… because all he wanted to do was go back to his tunnel that he had lived in…. Not a house… a tunnel…He’s going to die in the winter (it’s -40c in the winter here) and is not mentally fit to take care of himself… The rule should be expanded for people who need help, can’t take care of themselves or is a threat to themselves or others.
As a Mental Health provider and someone who once worked for years as a case manager for a homeless coalition, I've seen first hand that mental health care isn't going to stop people from becoming homeless. Yes, there are many people experiencing homelessness that are in need of significant mental health care, but that is only going to help a small fraction of people. Access to affordable housing and better resources are the only things that will end homelessness. Not to mention what happens to these folks after they are released from the hospital? Odds are, they will itterally be left out in the cold and still with no home or a way to maintain their mental health. How is a person supposed to maintain their mental health when they lack the most basic resources? Also, using PD instead of trained mental health professionals is the worst idea. Ive seen how even trained PD respond to folks in a mental health crisis and they have no clue what they are doing. There is a reason mental health providers must go through 6+ years in school and multiple years training in the field. Assisting folks in a mental health crisis is not something you can learn from a couple of mandatory trainings. The only thing this ridiculous plan will achieve is forcibly locking people up in institutions to TEMPORARILY get them off the street.
There's a more sinister reason behind this. The reason the mayor is having police carry out the task of forcibly locking people up in mental institutions by force is likely meant to more easily imprison and silence political threats. In the dark ages of mental health, throwing 'undesirables' in asylums, including political thorns like protestors, LGBTQ, feminists, and potential whistleblowers was the fastest and easiest way to silence them. No one would believe a crazy person just like no one believes an arrested person or an ex convict. The fact that its a mayor ordering a notoriously corrupt industrial police department to do this could be less to do with those struggling of mental health issues or even homeless people and more to do with removing 'undesirables'. The 'undiagnosed' mental health disorder criteria being enough to forcibly commit someone against their will is what put me on edge and consider this. Its not like this kind of thing doesn't happen already with how prisoners and arrested people awaiting trial and even migrants in jails and detention centers are all treated. This is a MAJOR red flag because if it was really about helping keep the community safe, the mayor has countless other approaches to choose from, most of which don't even involve the NYPD (which has a checkered reputation thanks to their actions in 2020)
Thank you for this common sense approach and for asking all the right questions about this. As an NYC ER RN, I can attest we DO NOT have the resources needed. We haven't had the resources we need for a very long time. NYC ERs are always overcrowded with a good amount of mental health patients waiting for psychiatric beds/treatment. Many Tim's these mentally ill patients are kept in the same areas ad medical patients. Though well-meaning what the mayor is proposing is going to put a further strain on understaffed, under-resourced ERs
@aaronelijahcolyer in all the hospital ERs I've worked mental health patients are sent to the ER first to be medically cleared (blood work, ekg, urine tests) and then assessed by a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist then decidesnig this patient needs to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital/unit or if they can follow up with out patuent psychiatric services. If they need to be admitted then a psychiatric hospital with an empty bed that is willing to accept the patient must be found. Funding an empty psych bed for that patient can take several days. That whole time the patient is in the ER
I have one word for this soon-to-be repeat of disasters past - Deinstitutionalization. We've seen this movie before in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. This THRICE-failed "effort" has more to do with decreasing the visibility of the homeless and mentally ill people on the streets of New York, than it EVER has for actually serving the mentally ill with "care and patience." The use of the NYPD is the FIRST indication that involuntary commitment will be used in frequently questionable ways, and with disastrous consequences. New York can't even get the NYPD to use "care and patience" with mentally STABLE people. What would make anyone think that someone trained for violent conflict would ever be suitable to deal with the mentally ill? The creation and implementation of the infrastructure necessary to effectively and compassionately care for the mentally ill in NY require thoughtful and careful planning, backed by real money for beds, medications, staff, social workers, psychiatrists, and patient follow-ups. NY, much like California, simply does not have the interest necessary to devise and run such a program successfully. The headlines reporting patient abuse are just around the corner.
If we had a functional mental health and social safety nets, I'd be more okay with this. But not now and definitely not without some real guidelines and methods to make sure they can get out.
when i was involuntarily committed i met with a lawyer twice in about 5 days and simply had to take my prescribed medication to get out... I was suicidal and being involuntarily committed likely saved my life so I'm thankful
I have Tylenol 3 levels of pain, and a for profit hospital wanted me to commit to their four month treatment plan which would deliberately make me worse and put me on fentanyl... I'd be afraid a rule like that would let them kidnap me against my will for treatment I don't need, where they could dump me in rehab after addicting me against my will. I refused their assistance and left.
Ana wish you had researched the procedures required for involuntary commitment. Maybe NY is different but usual is: taken to ER, physical evaluation, mental evaluation. Only if immediate danger to self or others is a 72 hour mandatory hold. Re-evaluated and psychiatrist can extend hold for treatment.
After spending some time in NY city, I’m not sure this is a bad thing. The people were scary and violent. But I also know of a woman who was involuntarily committed and it was hell on her family, finances and her career. Maybe they should hire people who are college trained in mental health to carry out these duties. Police already have to much power that they abuse.
@@OscarLangleySoryu IMO, how long I was there doesn’t matter. It shapes peoples opinions of the city and rather it’s worth it to stay. But at the same time, the cops walk around looking like a gang who is ready to set it off. Unlimited power of this nature will have them involuntarily committing any who don’t bow down to their authority. Hire official safety officers to deal with these incidents
This just pisses me off, I've seen a lot of horrible proposals by politicians, but this is among the worst; police aren't therapists, it takes years of formal education, and decades of experience before someone can be qualified enough to declare a person mentally unfit, all this is going to lead to is a bunch of people getting shot, and more being imprisoned because some idiot cop thinks they're 'crazy'.
@@spaceman6821 Yes, it does; what you think is some crazy homeless guy, could be a person with a neurological disorder causing involuntary movements or speech. I'm okay with involuntary commitment, but I don't believe the police should have any part in the process unless that individual has already harmed or threatened another person; mental health issues should be handled by social workers and medical staff, not some random guy with a badge and a gun, they're not trained to help vulnerable individuals, they're trained to stop criminals. Having a mental illness isn't a crime.
@@aaronkritusan9397 Homelessness itself is a mental disorder and can be easily identified by a laymen. It was also a crime for most of human history and should be again, it's called vagrancy. I'm sure you've heard of it.
@@spaceman6821 Uh, you're a bit of an idiot aren't you? Homelessness is the state of being without a home, it's got to do with being poor and not being able to afford one for most people, it's got nothing to do with mental illness though mental illness itself can be a reason why someone's poor, since it can make it harder to keep or get hired for a job.
@@aaronkritusan9397 Poor people aren't homeless, mentally ill people are homeless. 100% of homeless people are mentally ill and they should all be put in the looney bin where they belong. They end up on the streets because their disability prevents them from functioning in society. This was universally understood for all of human history until there was an anti-asylum movement among psychologists that dumped all the crazies onto the streets where they still fester to this day.
It gives the NYPD another defense for their own criminal behaviors and gives them the ability to put their victims away until when? They have to prove themselves mentally adjusted enough to return to society? Who decides that?
It's a good idea that hasn't been properly planned out yet. The abuse is letting people rot on the street. It's barbaric. It makes all of us less safe. As long as a doctor examines them and makes the decision, rather than some beat cop, and the funding is in place to house them properly, it could be a good thing. Transparency is key here
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I live in NYC, studied psychology, and I've been involuntarily committed. In fact, I've filed a lawsuit concerning it. There's so much research on the detrimental effects of involuntary commitment. There should be strenuous standards, even more strenuous than NY has in place, before deciding to put someone through that situation. There are obvious scenarios in which people need help. Hell, my roommate's hookup tried killing himself in our apartment. There's a place for that, but it's incredibly obvious when it is. Homelessness is not a standard to take away someone's freedom.
He's painting mentally ill people as dangerous, when they are far more likely to be victims of violence than the other way around.
He's confusing drug addiction and drug induced psychosis for mental illness. And sorta threatening to break all kinds of laws but...sure. It worked well for everyone when that German guy did it.
Wrong!
People with the kind of illnesses you describe do not tend to seek medical help even in the early stages.The police must be accompanied by a psychiatrist who can make a proper assessment regarding the need for involuntary committment. And the individual must immediately be provided with a lawyer. Police don't have the skill set to make these determinations.
The NYPD needs to be accompanied by a mental health liason/professional. It doesn't necessarily need to be a psychiatrist.
@@rinlo1424 yet they are accompanied by literally nobody
What group will be next?
As for psychiatrists/psychologists/whomever;
were they not PRESENT in Guantanamo Bay assessing whether water-boarding, electrifying genitalia et al were "humane" methods of torture?
The use of force by one imperfect human upon another is something I have a MAJOR PROBLEM
WITH.
you're not immediately provided a lawyer when you're arrested and you won't be immediately be given a lawyer for this... as someone that's been involuntarily committed in California I seen a lawyer twice in 7 days... once after my initial 72hr hold was extended and then again a couple days later before I got out...
i disagree, all the police have to do is use non violent means to trap them, and take them to treatment centers.
Isn't "involuntarily commit" just another term for "kidnap"?
...and Murder By KKKop.
yes
When they went from state to state closing all of the state-funded mental health institutions, they set all of those people out into the streets and now we're dealing with this overwhelming problem. It happened when I was a child in the late 80's. They closed them all, and then ushered in the age of group homes. Which were often underfunded, and understaffed. The staff that was usually there was under trained, and completely unavailable to sincerely help the clients in their care. They know what happened and how we got here.
Exactly!!
You get what you voted for..its why I left nyc..best decision ever...
Big pharma made million in prescription drugs and doctors became quite wealthy when drugs pushed psychotic patients into the community without a home to return to and without support services. Gross neglect, and indifference to human sorrow is on display. The rich escape to their ivory towers and drink champagne.
Imagine giving an already out of control, violent and dangerous at times, retaliatory gang of thugs the ability to have you committed on sight....OF COURSE, THEY WON'T ABUSE THAT...SMH
imagine being suicidal and having your life saved by being involuntarily committed...
This is one of the problems with having police, rather than mental health professionals, interacting with troubled people. Those professionals have had YEARS of study and training. A few weekend trainings are not a substitute for this. Let's not start punishing people before a crime has been committed. Would we accept that if the police didn't say there was a "mental health" issue? Furthermore, while we treat many mental illnesses with pharmaceuticals, we don't know the causality for many mental illnesses, nor why certain drugs work when they do (they often don't). Finally, how is there dignity in removing choices from someone who has not been judged incompetent by the court? Who gets to decide how often you have to shower, or how long you can live in a tent, before you are denied your rights?
Ana as somebody that worked in the NYC subway system for almost 32 years, I can say there are some folks that need to be involuntarily committed. Eric’s plan needs to be better fleshed out but I support it.
Thank you, Ana is always sooo negative!
What about those that are inaccurately diagnosed and imprisoned by the police? Why do the police get to determine this? Very Nazi-esque.
Involuntarily also means kidnapping someone against their will!!!
As someone who sometimes struggle with suicide I'm very scared of this getting out of hand and a future were I'm premonitory committed. I take my meds. I go to a day program. I see a therapist. I do what I need to do to stay out of the hospital. I'm not a danger to anyone else. I enjoy the freedom I have. And when I need to I reach out for help. Should I be committed. That is the future I see with this. I do agree that someone people need to be committed. I'm scared that I'm going to be one of them.
that's not what this law is about at all... if you can take care of yourself and aren't a danger to yourself or others you have nothing to worry about...
I agree Naomi. Regardless of the intentions of those involved, this could easily be used to subvert other aspects of your legal rights, and without appropriate legislation, oversight and tangible penalties, many inappropriate commitments will happen. Look at the mess the various arms of US police forces (sheriffs, rangers, city, state and federal, etc) have all been in over recent years. Qualified immunity has to be abolished before even considering expanding the authority of police.
I can relate to your situation and feel that an institutional commitment would be far more life threatening than being left to my own devices. [I have no weapons or other *devices* designed to inflict harm! Unless you count a sharp tongue or razor sharp wit)].
@@Xubono You sound paranoid. I've been involuntarily committed, my rights weren't violated, I actually got the help I needed so stfu because you don't know what you're talking about.
@@Xubono thank you. I appreciate that you understand. I'm super scared about this. And conceding the resent history of the police abusing there power I have even more to fear now. Especially since I'm also a member of the LGBTQ community. I'm super scared about my future. No matter what happens with this. Anyway thank you for understanding.
@@aaronelijahcolyer I am glad you got the help you needed and it worked out for you. I am not paranoid, nor am I interested in trading insults. My response was part of the conversation started by Ana. I don’t believe that a police force already famous for brutality are the most appropriate people to help people with mental health problems.
There is no treatment there. Speaking as someone with firsthand experience who committed themselves because they were feeling suicidal, they just adjust your meds and maybe schedule you an appointment with a therapist. Then they send you on your way and for most of these folks as soon as they run out of meds they're back to square one.
exactly. staff doesn’t give a crap either half the time.
same with my exp. there was no treatment. it was just waiting to be assigned a doctor, maybe talk about a plan, and good luck if that actually happens after.
Anyone who doesn't think this is going to end up with homeless in jail or bussed out of the city and dropped somewhere is fooling themselves.
That can be ANYBODY they don't like!!!!!!!!!!
An example of it going terribly wrong is the woman who ended up spending a week in a mental health facility because the police thought it was unbalanced to dance in your car seat to the radio.
NYPD arresting mentally ill people and locking them away this is gonna get bloody
You hit it on the nail
Bro 50! 50 more beds?!?! In NYC!?!?! This dude is over his head with this.
This shit is why I keep my mental health issues and crisis events under official radar. Don’t want to be shot, jailed or committed when all I need is help. Disgusting that people have to live under the worry of being snatched up and locked down per Mayoral order.
Yup me 2
Yup, this is Nazi shit
Just like our entire country is becoming. So glad NYC is going down too, I love not feeling safe literally anywhere in the world
Not to mention that, guaranteed, cops will abuse this. Anyone that they can’t rightfully arrest they’ll commit.
I can see deaf people who cant communicate being harrassed by this as well
this is the old trope of if they are a problem lock them away and dont talk about it
This is why I keep my mental issues to myself. Police already messed with me once and put me in jail, made me sit in a cell butt naked for 24 hours because they couldn’t find a hospital to bring me. This was in Rochester, NY.
Never spoke about my mental issues with anyone since then. I don’t know how this will really work out when police already abuse the system.
what if someone with mental health issues is being taken care of by family and goes outside and talks to themself and a cop sees them. is that cop gonna grab them and take them away? that would be horrifying for the person and the family when their family member does not come home.
Exactly. Wtf is "mentally unstable"??? I've never met a mentally stable cop in my life...
this is horrifying :(
In Sweden people are involontarily committed if they need help. It works. We have no mass shootings and very little homelessness.
I lived on the street for more than 5 years and I have to say I think a lot of what people think their fellow human beings need in distress isn't commitment to some kind of institution, it's the basic decency and safety that every human being needs, and I've seen those basic things provided to people who were essentially catatonic or unable to verbally communicate with others go just a few days having shelter and food provided, being surrounded by people that they trusted and felt safe around, and revert back to a self that is coherent and compassionate and alert. 50 beds isn't enough, a thousand beds isn't enough. It should be illegal to make being homeless illegal.
Can’t just put someone in the hospital if they are fine ,, ppl are stressed in NYC so if they seem the person is stressed or looks crazy they will grab you up & throw you in a hospital!! NY is getting out of control & that’s why I’m out here everyday watching the NYPD !!
I was unaware that police officers were trained in mental diagnosis.
Well they said they would allow them to use camera phones or whatever device to contact doctors to find out if this something they can do if it doesn't meet that requirement I'm sure they'll let u go.
@@everretchancellor2243 where u from
@@OscarLangleySoryu 🤐 does it matter
TLDR: The involuntary psychiatric law in Sweden, and how it works.
I work as a psychiatry nurse in Sweden. We have a law for involuntary psychiatric care, called LPT (Lagen om psykiatrisk tvångsvård). Here it works that any doctor can decide to keep a person involuntary for max 24 h. During these 24 h we're allowed to restrict their movement to our locked wards and are not allowed to start long term medical treatment. Within 24 h a separate doctor, a psychiatrist, evaluates if the person needs LPT. There are 3 criteria for LPT; the person have a severe psychiatric syndrome or episode, the person need psychiatric care, and the person refuses the care. At both evaluations this is tried. After this we can start long term medical treatment or structure up the care. The goal is to make the person either not needing in-hospital care or that the person voluntaries to the care. After an LPT have been decided on, a psychiatrist can remove it any time he/she wants, but the LPT only lasts 3 months. If the psychiatrist wants to prolong the LPT it goes to a court hearing, and the court decides if the LPT will continue for an additional 3 months. The person under LPT gets their own lawyer (public defender) which works for the patient against the hospital. The courts have an impartial psychiatrist to give advice to the court about the medical/psychiatric evaluation. The patient can also make formal objection to things with the LPT, in which case there's a court hearing for that. The National Board of Health and Welfare is also involved to evaluate procedures and care on a national level.
This law is used for say suicidal, psychotic episodes, live threatening eating disorder, and so on. It can't be used for say homelessness. And the police have no say in this. The police can take persons involuntarily to the hospital, but their mandate ends at our doors. This has caused some frustration with our local police where they take in a person that is about to jump from a bridge, and a couple of hours latter they have to respond to the same person at the same bridge. But when that person was evaluated by the doctor the person didn't fulfill the 3 criteria of LPT. And in Sweden private actors can't involuntary house people, so this is only for governmental hospitals.
There's also a possibility to covert voluntary care to involuntary and to have involuntary out of hospital care (and some other involuntary laws for specific things), but those are more complicated.
It's going to make a lot of people avoid seeking any sort of mental health treatment. The wrong people are going to be "punished" by this.
Negligent in involving police!
I'm one of those mental health workers and your is the process in most areas. Unfortunately most hospitals don't have enough needs. A couple of decades ago many of the state hospitals were closed across the country, which meant less beds for the mentally ill.
I can't understand how the NYC Mayor thinks that "50 extra hospital beds" will be anywhere enough to handle the large amount of mentally ill people that the cops will now be bringing in off the streets.
Yeah i can see this used in so many nefarious ways, this is a bad idea especially when cops are involved
Cops and sensitivity? Those two things have never been in a cops vocabulary. EVER!
And they should never be charged for it. Now in many cases, these people receive huge bills.
I was involuntarily committed for 7 and a 1/2 days outside my apartment because I made a joke to my therapist. 2 cops came to my apartment and called the paramedics who took me to Coney Island Hospital and kept mw in psyche for 7.5 days including the 72 hour mandatory evaluation. You dont even need to have an episode a therapist that isn't even your therapist can call the cops on you when you make a joke they dont like. This was in 2019 new years eve day Dec 31st in the early afternoon. On January 3rd I had an art show that I missed because I was locked up in psyche. Yeah locked up, bars on windows, elevator door padlocked so no escape no way out only the psychiatrist on duty has your freedom in his hands.
I'm so curious what the joke was
What ended up happening with your therapist after that?? Jesus christ.
I’ve been in a psych ward twice but both times I CHOSE to go, and it was STILL traumatic feeling so trapped and being treated badly by nurses. That sounds so horrible. I’m so sorry.
I’m a career paramedic. I have seen stories like yours, except that the person is released within a few hours after talking to the doctor. I’m curious as to why after your first conversation with the doctor you were held for 72 hours, and then a further 4 days after that. Is it possible they felt you were manic?
@@jimmybaggs5342 I didn’t get to see a doctor until my 3rd day in. I was so out of it after the cocktail the nurses gave me that I slept for 3 days. I wasn’t manic I was scared I had my dog with me in the ER my emotional support animal. When the paramedics brought me in they got me into the ambulance by threatening my dog. They said they would have to take the dog to a shelter if I don’t go to Coney Island hospital the only hospital according to them that let patients into the ER with their pets. I begged not to be taken to that hospital because of the horror stories we read about and personal experience. But by threatening my dog with a kill shelter they convinced me to go. I didn’t know my rights I could have just gone inside my apartment and locked the door and called a lawyer friend. But the paramedics were so aggressively mentally steering me to that hospital especially with the seeming threats to my pet that I took a chance. There were 3 paramedics that showed up and when I got into the ambulance they had one on each exit door so that I wouldn’t run I’m assuming. I told them I changed my mind and they threatened me with calling the cops again to call for another amy ambulance. They were angry or acted angry and agitated not me I was docile and crying with a small lap dog on my lap on the bench in the ambulance. That was the beginning of my horror, nightmare. What happened in the hospital is way worse. From the time they brought me to the ER to my discharge 7.5 days later and beyond and still I am physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually hurt and feel like I am not gonna get any Justice.
@@ellabrand I am sorry that happened to you. I’m a paramedic in Canada, our system is different. Here, bringing a service animal into any hospital is a protected human right.
As a Social Worker living and working in NYC, this is an absolutely ridiculous idea and won't work. This _program_ will be done with before the year is over.
To "involuntarily" commit people on that scale would be a disturbing sign for civil liberty.
How about Emptying Trump Tower for the Homeless as a Treatment Center?
This sounds like an excuse to round up homeless people and a lot of random black people!
Exactly
Here Tyt Ann is making it seem like holiday when in actuality it’s probably a death sentence for some poor souls
@@truthseekeralways7050 she's against this proposal. Did you actually watch the video?
I'm SURE this will work out well....NOT.
Police shouldn’t do that job, it needs to be mental health professionals
Mental health professionals suck just as badly. They are as abusive if not more abusive than cops.
It's hard to not label these people as Nazis, when they behave exactly like the Nazis did. Doing it "for their own good" was how the Nazis excused it. I wonder which group will be next...
I recall my family forcefully admitting me saying I was having a “crazy bipolar episode”. after I was released I never spoke to my family again. and staff does not give a crap about you. good luck waiting to speak to anyone while you’re admitted.
it’s not going to last.
I wouldn't be surprised that he will give the power to decide who does or doesn't need to be committed to the police.
I am a hospital social worker in Pennsylvania and I am baffled by the assumptions baked in to this policy. First, there is an assumption that people with mental illness are violent toward others. Although we do see this at times, it is more often that we see violence and neglect toward ones self.
Secondly, I am concerned about the assumptions related to hospital capacity. In my county, it is not uncommon for an involuntarily committed patient to wait days in an emergency room for a psychiatric bed to become available. 50 beds is laughable, most counties already need more beds than that without increas in demand. I also have concerns about the capacity of mental health courts to review each case after the 72 hold as each patient is entitled to be seen by a judge to extend or terminate the petition.
I am also concerned about the perceived value of an involuntary hold for someone that is functioning at baseline. Symptom improvement in a short involuntary stay is often minimal, the goal is simply to help a patient stabilize and navigate a crisis. If the person is already functioning at baseline, I'm not sure what an involuntary hold would accomplish.
Lastly, involuntary commitments are not pretty. People are often angry, frustrated and defensive when they are told they are being ordered to do something. I am worried that police will try to detain people, see defensive behavior and instead of taking them to a hospital, taking them to jail and charging them with a crime if they act aggressively.
When the state institutions closed, we saw an increase in mental health patients in prisons. I am worried this policy could be a new era of mass incarceration.
Lastly, I wonder what the discharge plan would be. At my hospital, we help people secure outpatient treatment, Medicaid, housing/shelter, transportation and access to primary care. Why can't a social worker just meet with the individual in the community and help them with these needs? Why take them to the hospital at all?
There are so many better solutions than forcing people that can't afford care to be committed to hospital beds that do not exist. I want to know who he consulted with when he developed this legislation, it wasn't anyone in my field.
Also, being involunarily commitment might negatively effect the willingness of the patient to participate in the treatment and/ or their willingness to seek any treatment after such a horrible experience. It is often difficult enough already to seek help for psychological problems, forcing people into treatment will not help.
@@kiskillilla223 You are so right!!!
@@kiskillilla223 They are animals and they are throwing women in front of the subway.
I have rarely seen a 72 hour hold even be looked at by a judge. Its a joke and these poor people are given deadly antidepressants and psycotropics... A judge does Not even hear cases to hold patients past the 72 hours.. All patients names are put before the judge and just stamped.. There are no conversations about each patient.
I live in Queens and I see mental health problems every day. I've seen people that definitely need help but their illness tells them they're fine and everyone else is sick. They refuse help and say they're fine. Unfortunately we can't just make them get help unless they're in danger or are a risk to themselves or others. I suffer from mental illness and I know how it can affect my entire personality. I'm lucky my illness doesn't require me to take any medication, but I do go to a therapist every week and it's helped more than I could've hoped. It was difficult for me to figure out why I was having the thoughts and feelings I was having and I also suffered from addiction to drugs which really made things much worse. It got so bad that I tried to kill myself twice in three days. The first one was a real attempt to kill myself, but the second was a cry for help. Thankfully I got the help I needed before it was too late. If you or someone you know is suffering from mental health problems I suggest seeing a therapist. It feels great to talk to someone that understands your problem and can explain it to you. Knowing why you're not functioning like you used to can be a relief.
I agree with therapy, but police are not bringing them to therapy with this. it’s forcing them to be in a facility without their permission.
@@Squeaxx good!!!
Only in America do people think the homeless have more of a right to die on the sidewalk than to be admitted to a mental institution. No other first world country does this. It is NOT a human rights violation to help the sick who will never seek help on their own because of their illness. We should’ve never deinstitutionalized, it’s more inhumane to watch sick people die on the streets.
You said it correctly it’s all about having the necessary resources. People that have these instances that you’re talking about either don’t have access to resources (funded Medicare ) or they choose not to access those resources so therefore someone has to step in and assist but if those resources aren’t in place , then those people end up being inhumanely parked in the hospital wing hallways or ignored in facilities for days , weeks, months because the resources aren’t there to address them. already it can take up to a year to get appointments with psychiatrists, so how do they propose to do that with only 50 beds?
50 beds in a city of 8.5million people is a weak joke.
Instead of committing them can't they just take them to a screening place and let someone do some kind of evaluation. And then get them the help they need.
They're going to let COPS do this??? 😳😳🥺🥺😖😖😱😱🤯🤯🤯
In Florida the cops can Baker Act you for up to 72 hours. After that they have to let you go, or have a psychiatrist request more time. This is for evaluation. They cannot keep you locked up, you have to be hospitalized in some kind of facility. Hospital, mental health crisis center, or other appropriate location.
So when they are involuntarily taken to prison where they get no help, is that alternative referable?
Ana, the biggest questions here are “where will the police and hospitals get the funding/training to care for these new mental health patients? Who will treat the influx of patients when the medical industry is already understaffed? Is this new program just for people living on the streets or does it include the mentality ill who are imprisoned?”
I was hopeful for Mayor Adams when he came into office, but his half-assed plan only sounds nice with no substance (and of all problems in NYC, he chose to tackle an enormously complex one). I’m worried about the kind of treatment these people will receive and that this is a slippery slope for an arrest of bodily autonomy.
Review body cameras of officers first and deal with the mental health issues of its own officers first …see how that works out ….
This would be fine if New York had like…five times as many psychiatric facilities as it currently does, and a huge ass budget for public healthcare-because the people being committed sure don’t
Yup
This should NOT be a police issue. Bring in mental health workers and social workers.
Should be involuntary committing the NYPD!
Ana is 100% correct on this. We need specific clarification.
Affordable housing? Free healthcare? Just a thought.
no that would actually help solve these problems and stop putting money into investors pockets.
Give the police the option to just commit “crazy” people because they’re qualified “medical experts.” 🙄
I agree that some individuals may well be in dire need of mental health intervention and this will be a good idea.
BUT. It will be abused by police in order to further oppress "undesirables" or anyone the officers simply cannot be bothered to deal with. Never mind the possibilities available to the corrupt officers using this policy vindictively.
Now, if you get angry at an officer in New York he can simply say you're crazy and have you committed. Like when they put a gun to your head and call you a shine and tell you to dance. Don't lose your cool. You could be put in a straight jacket.
Many Germans did not want to be reminded of individuals who did not measure up to their concept of a "master race" and were considered "unfit" or "handicapped." People with physical and mental disabilities were viewed as "useless" to society, a threat to Aryan genetic purity, and, ultimately, "unworthy of life." At the beginning of World War II, individuals with mental or physical disabilities were targeted for murder in what the Nazis called the "T-4," or "euthanasia," program.
Involuntarily committing people because they might pose a threat? A slippery slope to thought police…
Let's stop making "peace officers," mental health professionals.
100%. They're not qualified. AND it shouldn't be their job, anyway. The chief of the Seattle police department recently said that at least 60% of their calls involved mental health crises and not crime.
Living in California if you seen some of things I’ve seen with people running around with a fishing rod screaming at the top of their lungs. Or walking into a store and seeing a man literally take his pants off, bend over and take a shit. This mayor might be on to something. I don’t agree with what he’s necessarily proposing. However, I often think to myself when I see things like this. “I really don’t think these people should be in public walking the streets among us. They should be taken to the hospital right away for evaluation.” I know it’s not funny and it’s sad. But it’s not normal behavior. It’s behavior that needs medical attention before something really bad happens to them or someone else. Just saying.
This is wrong, & someone's going to sue the crap out of him!
Also, a lot of these violent mentally ill aren’t always homeless so fixating only on the homeless isn’t a good idea. I notice a lot of people equating it with being homeless.
When u live in places like NY,LA or SF it’s very much related
Imagine being locked up because an american cop sends a mobile clip to someone! This is dystopian. American cops shouldn't be responsible for the opinion on someone's mental state.....they don't have a good record on that, do they? It's been more of a quick-draw solution to the problem so far, and that won't change in my lifetime as far as I can see. For goodness sake, train your cops and change the cop culture. You shouldn't qualify as a cop just because you have a pulse.
What looks like a mental illness, may often be caused by a physiological ailment or injury. I speak from experience. Decades & resources can be lost, attempting to treat a mental health problem without treating its underlying cause.
This said, it is not the job of a psychologist to say you need a neurologist.
This terrifies me.
Giving cops even more power to do what they want, what could possibly go wrong?
We are know what this is . This is stop and Frisk but only for the homeless. I don’t know what is worse it becoming a law or it coming from a Black mayor who if anybody should know what this means for black people. Vote him out
Start with Congress. Marjorie Taylor Greene is top priority.
WORD !!!
I would like to BAKER ACT M.T.G. ASAP !!!
This honestly imo is about them further attacking homeless people.
Dude if u don't actually live in the NYC area u need to slow the fuck down and take two steps back like a mofo! its a hot hell out there in those subways and in the streets.
It is sadly
Yep. Notice how most the replies are about the homeless when mentally ill aren’t always homeless..
As a New Yorker I'm not a fan of the mayor but I've been wanting them to do this for awhile. It's literally the same thing that was already happening before the pandemic started but they're announcing it this way to score points. The system was already in place but just not operating due to covid. Now all we need is 1. Cops to do their job and show up. 2. Making sure that when the violent crime takes place we hold them with bail and not treat violent crimes like non-violent ones. I think you do this and my city will be closer to what it was the last 20 years before the pandemic
Well, that didn't take long to find a new thing to replace the stop and frisk law. Each time they one up the abuses they replace
nothing abusive about getting mentally ill people treatment... it would actually be abusive to leave them on the streets unable to properly care for themselves or being a danger to themselves or others... that would be a real abuse
I have major issues with cops deciding on a whim who is or isn't having a mental crisis. Also, they could be costing some of them a job if they are working and hauled off to a hospital not needing to be or if they are looking for a job now they have this on their record. This could be the one thing that could push them to an edge whether they were or not having a crisis. Unless you've ever been locked into a mental hospital you have NO idea how you get treated AND ABUSED in them places and sometime you do come out in worse than you went in or in this case forced against your will. I wouldn't want a badge and gun deciding shit for me especially an uncompassionate heartless pig!
I got the impression that this was regarding people so mentally ill that they couldn't care for themselves. Not people who have a mental disorder so mild that they can hold down a job.
*edited to add*
The severely mentally ill homeless population is the most vulnerable left on the streets to fend for themselves. They get robbed and beaten by other people living on the streets all the time. It's the severely mentally ill homeless people who are most likely to die from freezing to death in the winter.
Where will they be kept exactly? The overcrowded hospitals? Understaffed Rikers? Cargo ships never to be seen again? Staten Island?
I can already see this is a program that will be RIDDLED with abuses.
Yes, because cops are well known for how sensitive and respectful they are. Couldn't possibly go wrong. They wouldn't possibly have black people hospitalized against their will without cause.
It takes 17 weeks of training to become a police officer in New York. It takes three years in Germany. Will New York add a week to it?
...and the Germans don't carry Service Weapons.
Death By KKKop.
Hershel Walker should stay away from the streets of NYC
How many will never be heard from again? I'm sure most don't have anyone looking out for them
Child abusers should be involuntarily committed...to prison.
Honestly I’m from nyc, we need this
First, respect to your opinion. But just to give you another light to this, if I may.
I’m from nyc too and in my opinion… yes, we need a policy in place. But this ain’t it. This policy will open up a Pandora’s box of brutal force. If we let this be, as sloppy as it is, it will bring the same involuntary capturing into our homes. I don’t trust the power move that Adams keeps pushing. Because as he has shown, again and again, it’s not about “us” or “we” it’s about “I” and “me”.
I don't live there but honestly I feel like here's a man tryin , and he has brought some thought and maybe hasn't given full details that's hard to give in one press conference but so far so good there brain storming , meanwhile what's the Republican answer to mental illness oh that's right there isn't one but let's kick the man who's at least committed to trying to solve a huge issue.
@@LolaJohnsonmusic I don’t think they’re gonna be snatching random people out of there houses now , but if they did , I’m sure that person will go through some psychiatric evaluation to determine if they are mentally ill or a threat to society . I think we need to get crazies off the streets to get them the help they need which In turn will make our streets safer . I think the pros of this outweigh the cons .
@@everretchancellor2243 exactly , there was a vote for mental health care in the house I believe , since republicans are always quick to say that mass shooters are just mentally I’ll people , yet no republican signed into this mental health bill that would allocate money for it.
@@alexurfantasy it kills me when a mass shooting occurs and then it's like damn now we gotta talk about guns again and mental illness and our deepest sympathy and condolences to the families of this tragic time in our country, but why bozo when you help pass responsible gun legislation and mental health care and try towards doing something that matters so you don't have sing the same song we've heard for so long.
The biggest problem I have with it is, who pays for it? How you would like to be involuntarily committed and then when you get out, get slapped with a $7000 medical bill for the 4 days you spent there?
Or, are tax payers footing the bill? In which case, if we have money to involuntarily commit people to an expensive hospital stay, why don't we have enough money to put homeless people into cheap housing?
This also can act as a secondary form of incarceration. "He's not breaking the law, there is nothing we can do about it." "I got an idea.....Hey, buddy....you feeling alright? You need a doctor? NO! Well, too bad, you're coming with us."
So glad she brought up that strange lady in the background at 8:35 I felt so uncomfortable watching the lady in the red try to balance her thoughts between smiling, serious concern, and confusion hahaha what was she thinking
I just talked to a nurse that said they had to release a homeless man that had been in the hospital due to mental illness for the las two years and had sabotaged every effort to get him into housing, he became so violent that they had to release him… because all he wanted to do was go back to his tunnel that he had lived in…. Not a house… a tunnel…He’s going to die in the winter (it’s -40c in the winter here) and is not mentally fit to take care of himself… The rule should be expanded for people who need help, can’t take care of themselves or is a threat to themselves or others.
Sounds like "arrested for resisting arrest" is going to be on the rise
As a Mental Health provider and someone who once worked for years as a case manager for a homeless coalition, I've seen first hand that mental health care isn't going to stop people from becoming homeless. Yes, there are many people experiencing homelessness that are in need of significant mental health care, but that is only going to help a small fraction of people. Access to affordable housing and better resources are the only things that will end homelessness. Not to mention what happens to these folks after they are released from the hospital? Odds are, they will itterally be left out in the cold and still with no home or a way to maintain their mental health. How is a person supposed to maintain their mental health when they lack the most basic resources?
Also, using PD instead of trained mental health professionals is the worst idea. Ive seen how even trained PD respond to folks in a mental health crisis and they have no clue what they are doing. There is a reason mental health providers must go through 6+ years in school and multiple years training in the field. Assisting folks in a mental health crisis is not something you can learn from a couple of mandatory trainings. The only thing this ridiculous plan will achieve is forcibly locking people up in institutions to TEMPORARILY get them off the street.
There's a more sinister reason behind this. The reason the mayor is having police carry out the task of forcibly locking people up in mental institutions by force is likely meant to more easily imprison and silence political threats. In the dark ages of mental health, throwing 'undesirables' in asylums, including political thorns like protestors, LGBTQ, feminists, and potential whistleblowers was the fastest and easiest way to silence them. No one would believe a crazy person just like no one believes an arrested person or an ex convict. The fact that its a mayor ordering a notoriously corrupt industrial police department to do this could be less to do with those struggling of mental health issues or even homeless people and more to do with removing 'undesirables'. The 'undiagnosed' mental health disorder criteria being enough to forcibly commit someone against their will is what put me on edge and consider this. Its not like this kind of thing doesn't happen already with how prisoners and arrested people awaiting trial and even migrants in jails and detention centers are all treated. This is a MAJOR red flag because if it was really about helping keep the community safe, the mayor has countless other approaches to choose from, most of which don't even involve the NYPD (which has a checkered reputation thanks to their actions in 2020)
Thank you for this common sense approach and for asking all the right questions about this. As an NYC ER RN, I can attest we DO NOT have the resources needed. We haven't had the resources we need for a very long time. NYC ERs are always overcrowded with a good amount of mental health patients waiting for psychiatric beds/treatment. Many Tim's these mentally ill patients are kept in the same areas ad medical patients. Though well-meaning what the mayor is proposing is going to put a further strain on understaffed, under-resourced ERs
@aaronelijahcolyer in all the hospital ERs I've worked mental health patients are sent to the ER first to be medically cleared (blood work, ekg, urine tests) and then assessed by a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist then decidesnig this patient needs to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital/unit or if they can follow up with out patuent psychiatric services. If they need to be admitted then a psychiatric hospital with an empty bed that is willing to accept the patient must be found. Funding an empty psych bed for that patient can take several days. That whole time the patient is in the ER
@@emroks76 i can concur because that was my experience
I have one word for this soon-to-be repeat of disasters past - Deinstitutionalization.
We've seen this movie before in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. This THRICE-failed "effort" has more to do with decreasing the visibility of the homeless and mentally ill people on the streets of New York, than it EVER has for actually serving the mentally ill with "care and patience." The use of the NYPD is the FIRST indication that involuntary commitment will be used in frequently questionable ways, and with disastrous consequences. New York can't even get the NYPD to use "care and patience" with mentally STABLE people. What would make anyone think that someone trained for violent conflict would ever be suitable to deal with the mentally ill?
The creation and implementation of the infrastructure necessary to effectively and compassionately care for the mentally ill in NY require thoughtful and careful planning, backed by real money for beds, medications, staff, social workers, psychiatrists, and patient follow-ups. NY, much like California, simply does not have the interest necessary to devise and run such a program successfully. The headlines reporting patient abuse are just around the corner.
Start with Q-Anon. It'll probably eradicate society of that movement.
Instead of "Stop And Frisk", is this "Stop And Commit"?!! Is this the beginning of the war against mental health?!!
If we had a functional mental health and social safety nets, I'd be more okay with this. But not now and definitely not without some real guidelines and methods to make sure they can get out.
when i was involuntarily committed i met with a lawyer twice in about 5 days and simply had to take my prescribed medication to get out... I was suicidal and being involuntarily committed likely saved my life so I'm thankful
If I wanted an impromptu meeting with my psychiatrist I'd be waiting several months.
“Profiling” will increase. A terrible idea. America is crazy!
Since when did doing meth crack and heroin on the street become a civil liberty
I have Tylenol 3 levels of pain, and a for profit hospital wanted me to commit to their four month treatment plan which would deliberately make me worse and put me on fentanyl...
I'd be afraid a rule like that would let them kidnap me against my will for treatment I don't need, where they could dump me in rehab after addicting me against my will.
I refused their assistance and left.
Ana wish you had researched the procedures required for involuntary commitment. Maybe NY is different but usual is: taken to ER, physical evaluation, mental evaluation. Only if immediate danger to self or others is a 72 hour mandatory hold. Re-evaluated and psychiatrist can extend hold for treatment.
Until US healthcare is free/universal, forcing someone into a hospital is....questionable.
There are going to be so many "he wasn't complying though" deaths soon
After spending some time in NY city, I’m not sure this is a bad thing. The people were scary and violent. But I also know of a woman who was involuntarily committed and it was hell on her family, finances and her career. Maybe they should hire people who are college trained in mental health to carry out these duties. Police already have to much power that they abuse.
Some time? What, like 3 days? Go home to bumblefuck and let the rational people deal with the city...
@@OscarLangleySoryu IMO, how long I was there doesn’t matter. It shapes peoples opinions of the city and rather it’s worth it to stay. But at the same time, the cops walk around looking like a gang who is ready to set it off. Unlimited power of this nature will have them involuntarily committing any who don’t bow down to their authority. Hire official safety officers to deal with these incidents
Your right , 50 beds won't cut it. It's going to cost a lot more to rebuild/ reopen proper institutions throughout the country.
This just pisses me off, I've seen a lot of horrible proposals by politicians, but this is among the worst; police aren't therapists, it takes years of formal education, and decades of experience before someone can be qualified enough to declare a person mentally unfit, all this is going to lead to is a bunch of people getting shot, and more being imprisoned because some idiot cop thinks they're 'crazy'.
It doesn't take a degree to spot a crazy homeless guy, they were forcibly institutionalized from most of American history.
@@spaceman6821 Yes, it does; what you think is some crazy homeless guy, could be a person with a neurological disorder causing involuntary movements or speech.
I'm okay with involuntary commitment, but I don't believe the police should have any part in the process unless that individual has already harmed or threatened another person; mental health issues should be handled by social workers and medical staff, not some random guy with a badge and a gun, they're not trained to help vulnerable individuals, they're trained to stop criminals.
Having a mental illness isn't a crime.
@@aaronkritusan9397 Homelessness itself is a mental disorder and can be easily identified by a laymen. It was also a crime for most of human history and should be again, it's called vagrancy. I'm sure you've heard of it.
@@spaceman6821 Uh, you're a bit of an idiot aren't you?
Homelessness is the state of being without a home, it's got to do with being poor and not being able to afford one for most people, it's got nothing to do with mental illness though mental illness itself can be a reason why someone's poor, since it can make it harder to keep or get hired for a job.
@@aaronkritusan9397 Poor people aren't homeless, mentally ill people are homeless. 100% of homeless people are mentally ill and they should all be put in the looney bin where they belong. They end up on the streets because their disability prevents them from functioning in society. This was universally understood for all of human history until there was an anti-asylum movement among psychologists that dumped all the crazies onto the streets where they still fester to this day.
It gives the NYPD another defense for their own criminal behaviors and gives them the ability to put their victims away until when? They have to prove themselves mentally adjusted enough to return to society? Who decides that?
This is a bad idea. The abuse that will
Come from this yikes
It's a good idea that hasn't been properly planned out yet. The abuse is letting people rot on the street. It's barbaric. It makes all of us less safe. As long as a doctor examines them and makes the decision, rather than some beat cop, and the funding is in place to house them properly, it could be a good thing. Transparency is key here