*Erratum:* 19:05 The green book is the one Amazon didn't want back; the brown one is the one they delisted - I got these facts conflated in my head at that point in the video. *Afterthoughts & Addenda* *Appearance of these books in other online stores* (e.g. Waterstones) - I think this is a result of some integration that allows Amazon's KDP users to publish to Waterstones storefront. *The Five-Legged Deer* at about 16:00 in the video. Can you believe I completely overlooked that?! In my defense, my brain was mushy goo at this point in the recording session, from having spent several hours reading these terrible books. I did notice that the bear is curiously well-groomed though.
Good that you bring this up. People should be able to trust the books they buy, fair if they admit it's AI written, Always research books such as this if you can't find collaborating facts about them do not buy them. Proper universal guides for identifying plants and mushrooms are a great subject for this channel. Combining scams and foraging, so like 90% of your channels content.
Have you seen Folding Ideas's video on 'Contrepreneurs: The Mikkelsen Twins' he did a year or so ago? This reeks of people doing the exact same thing but replacing the underpaid ghost writers with generative AI. (Which is funny enough one of the things I predicted would happen when the initial IA hype-explosion happened). I basically turned to my friend and said "oh boy here comes the grey goo,". AI submissions choked up the sci-fi fantasy magazines too, and it was very clear it was people from outside the sci-fi fantasy community looking to make a quick buck (who apparently think they're actually for making money and not just a reward for writers starting out and looking to cut their teeth...) The MO is just generating as much low-quality rubbish as possible in the hopes of catching someone out before it gets removed or straight up drowning out submissions by actual, real *passionate* people. In some cases its just silly, but in many its really damaging. :(
generative machine learning is a plagiarism machine, the only way I could see that happening is if it managed to steal 'real' fictional plants from somewhere like Skyrim
100% agree on drawn illustrations being superior to photos. Not only because there is no distracting background foliage, and general specimen variety, but also because drawings can show what any given species looks like in different stages of growth really elegantly, without having to resort to printing more than five different pictures. Not to mention the endless frustration with different angles of view, things like, what do the leaves look like on the side that's facing the ground? Or how are the axils structured? and so on.
i think the ideal format would be illustrations AND photos - an illustration pointing out all the identifiable details AND a picture to see an example of what it genuinely looks like in real life
The only time I had to rely on drawn illustrations and descriptive text to identify plants was for a game that used fake plants that looked very different in real life. I suspect I am not the only one who is useless at this and would very much prefer a set of full-color photos. That said, my main take-away is that foraging is not for me and that I will be useless if left in the wild. We can't all be survivors.
And they are often beautiful! There are great illustrations of plants. I am working on my plant-drawing skills, maybe that's where us artists will still be needed in the future.
8:29 "Wild carrots can be mistaken for poisonous hemlock." Love the phrasing there. Though to be fair, I certainly hate it when I think I'm picking hemlock, but I'm actually picking wild carrots, and end up spending the next few days feeling like a complete idiot wondering why the victim isn't dying.
Alternate video title: The Atomic Shrimp video guide to locating, identifying, and examining amazon-listed books and pamphlets of dubious, bad, not good quality, which pertain to the collection and gathering of plants, flora, and fungi which appear food-like or edible, but are in fact, poison.
And identification of dandelions, nettles and The Atomic Shrimp video guide to locating, identifying, and examining amazon-listed books and pamphlets of dubious, bad, not good quality, which pertain to the collection and gathering of plants, flora, and fungi which appear food-like or edible, but are in fact, poison and the identification of dandelions
Another smaller detail of note is that the AI "books" make no consideration about the format of the book. A field guide - as the name implies - is meant to be a small book concentating on the most crucial details of whichever plant you are trying to identify in the field, minimizing size and maximizing portability. Those AI-bominations have the format of something like an herbology book, which should include a lot more info, which (while interesting) would be trivial for identification - such as historical usage, folklore, etc.
I'm assuming Amazon's KDP must have options for book format, but that the scammers chose the largest one because it sounds more 'ultimate' to a potential customer who is only skimming the listing.
Somewhat related: I'd love to see you build a super unique birdhouse with one clear glass or plexiglass room. 🚨 What type of birds visit your yard? and do you or will you plant certain plants to attract certain BIRDS? 💭 Hello from New Castle, Delaware USA. @@AtomicShrimp
@@AtomicShrimpWould you ever bake mushroom & onion bread with butter topped? Sound good? Even though I'm not a forager I found this video very interesting!
16:08 - Don't be so flippant Mr Shrimp! There are many different types of bears some of which can be nutrititious, entertaining, wild, dangerous or hungry. The simple thing to do is rub the bear on you elbow and wait thirty minutes or so see if safe to proceed to further tests such as tasing a small piece of the bear.
I wonder how well that test works with parasites like Trichinosis(edit: disease is that, parasite is trichinella AI will probably confuse it too). Bear meat at least here requires proper cooking...
I am a biology teacher and this gave me the idea to do a "real or GPT" assignment with my classes. I'll have gpt make me a "field guide" page about one plant and print one out about the same plant from my books. And ill have them present the difference, mistakes and things they notice, as well as telling me which is which. Ill give each duo their own plant. I think its a good assignment for the 12 year olds.
The thing that's kind of concerning to me is that this stuff is obviously fake, but mostly because it was lazy. With a bit more effort on formatting, and prompting with examples of exactly what sort of output you want, you could probably get results that look a lot closer to what you'd expect from a legitimate guide. That said, if people were inclined to put in that work, they wouldn't be generating books to sell on amazon.
@@seigeengine yeah, I would be more worried about AI getting better than humans being less lazy. The moment this doesn't work as a 'passive income' anymore, they will likely jump ship before they entertain the thought of spending days tweaking at it.
@@noecarrier5035 Yeah, I really incorporate skills needed in modern day. From being able to spot fake news (all that vaccine, the pil, vitamins bullcrap) to knowing when someone is just trying to sell you something and now to recognise false AI information. You'd be surprised at how absolutely gullible most teens are. As critical as they like to think themselves as.
Searched the name to see if I could find this so-called author, and I found a handful of people with that name who had nothing to do with foraging. Thankfully, for the real people by that name, they're far enough removed from the topic that this garbage couldn't cause them reputational harm. Whoever sharted the book out should still be held accountable, though.
I am highly offended by your comment saying that 'Rowan Finch' is a fake name. (signed) "Mrs Oak Sparrow, 13 Bee Dandylion Lane, UpperWest Middle Lower Sussex, Englishland". Thank you for your purchase :)
I couldn't resist trying a prompt or two. "Forage the Bear: A Guide to the Practice and Ethics of Short-Selling in Financial Markets" explores short-selling through the lens of significant market events, notably the collapse of Bear Stearns. The book delves into the mechanics and strategies of short-selling, using Bear Stearns' downfall as a case study to illustrate the practice's impact. It details how traders bet against the company's stock amid mounting financial troubles, highlighting both the technical execution and ethical considerations of short-selling. The book examines the role short-sellers played in the Bear Stearns crisis, discussing whether their actions were a catalyst for the collapse or a natural response to underlying issues. By integrating this high-profile example, the book offers insights into the broader consequences of short-selling and its ethical implications in times of market stress.
In one video you might have said “safe and ethical foraging” as many times as you’ve said “the kind of details you should never share with a stranger in the internet.”
There was a drawing in some 1990s magazine: a man bought a book about mushrooms, and while walking happily to test it, he loses a small card with a writing: "ERRATA: page 72, is: edible, should be: poisonous". Now this is entirely new level…
That was all too real. That actual book - it really exists - had that very errata slip, later a proper errata section. And my mate ate it - the fungi, not the book. Luckily, it only made him hot, sweaty and with chronic indigestion. But, yeah, poisonous.
Using AI to make books and art is already scummy, but the idea of making a foraging book, something that could literally be the means between life and death, is a new level of evil.
Using AI in general to write books is not scumming. However not checking that the information that it generated is correct especially in a situation like this is scummy.
@@involuntarilycelebrate How is using a software to compile stolen information, and presenting it as original work, instead of doing the work yourself, not scummy?
If I had to guess, ChatGPT notices when people write articles/recipes/etc online, they tend to use those random series' of adjectives to spice up otherwise monotonous sentences. It understands and categorizes this practice as being "good" and "human" because it's something most people do when writing. What it DOESN'T understand is that people usually have an upper limit of how many times you can add those series' before it becomes monotonous again. In essence, in trying to not sound boring and repetitive, it becomes so verbose and "flavorful" that it sounds boring and repetitive again. A good test for whether something was written by a person or not is if there is some amount of variance in sentence structure - particularly the inclusion of some very brief and simple sentences. Another test, for longer pieces of writing, is that people tend to have words they like to use and reuse a lot without noticing, which is something an AI would similarly try to avoid to stop sounding repetitive. For me, I use a lot of qualifiers - tend to, mostly, often, somewhat, usually, etc. because I don't like to make certain statements. I notice AI tends to not do this and prefers to make either completely certain or really vague statements that don't need those kinds of qualifiers. It issues statements and commands, not suggestions and guesses.
ChatGPT is also being asked to essentially write a hundred or so introductory paragraphs about food so it uses the language recipe sites use in introductory paragraphs for search engine optimization.
The part about repeated words can also apply to machine-generated text (I refuse to call it AI-generated, there is not one iota of intelligence in these glorified pattern-recognizers) in the sense that a large written work created by a single person will contain quirks of word usage and sentence construction that are universal throughout the entire thing. Text generated with simpler public facing models like ChatGPT are only able to generate a couple hundred to a couple thousand words of text at a time, so a larger work must be made out of smaller pieces of generated text spliced together. In addition to causing major problems with the flow from once part to the other, this also means that any writing quirks present in one section likely won't carry over to another, aside from the ones shared by all machine-generated text.
AI text has always been like a parrot; it can be trained words to repeat and have some understanding of corelation, but it will never actually understand what it means, and iscthys liable to misuse it.
That makes sense since AI isn't a program that thinks for itself but just spews back what it's coded with and has absolutely no intelligence or personality
7:09 I love the fact that almost every paragraph starts with "Foraging..." which is one of those things a human writer or editor would definitely try to avoid because it reads awfully and looks worse.
'Generative AI makes life better and the future is now!' And then the Generative AI spits out some books on foraging so incompetent I wouldn't fully trust them to tell me the edibility of plants in a supermarket.
*Looks at small, squatty plant in flowerpot with bulbous leaves* "This is an edible squash!" *Looks at plant with spikes* "This is a cabbage! It is edible!"
@@hakonsoreide Convenient to use a useful piece of technology as a crutch for your false equivalence. The knife is vital in many, MANY every day uses. It's an incredibly simple yet useful tool even today. What use does AI generated trash have other than to massively boost crime of opportunity cases? That's all it matters, the benefits to detriments ratio.
The first time I used ChatGPT, I tested it by asking it questions about the subject of my PhD. It made some diagrams that looked really cool, and said some things which sounded impressive, but were in fact, nonsense. For something less obscure, I asked it to draw the structure of benzene, also total failure. This stuff isn't going to replace everyone's jobs. It'll find use in some niche applications that it's specifically trained to do under the supervision of humans where it performs faster and/or better than humans. But it's a bubble at the moment which people are trying to use to make a quick profit from and end up looking silly.
As somebody who occasionally uses the (German ~20 minute) shipping forecast as a cure for sleepless nights, I would definitely click on "2 hours of Atomic Shrimp reading a botanical field guide". North Utsire, South Utsire, Hemlock, Water Dropwort: flowers yellow, seven to eight, light rain, later deadly.
Brilliant: ‘liver failure, rising to jaundice, death within 3 days. Winds southerly, with moderate to severe vomiting. Visibility poor with retina, haemorrhage’
@@lesleydickson7746 I asked Bing Copilot and you're not wrong: Botanical Forecast Issued: 31 August 2024 at 1600 UTC General Synopsis: High pressure over the Mediterranean, moving east. Low pressure over the Atlantic, drifting north-east. Area Forecasts: Temperate Deciduous Forests: Oak, beech, and maple. Growth steady, leaves broadening. Moderate to good, occasionally poor under canopy. Tropical Rainforests: Mahogany, kapok, and rubber. Rapid growth, high humidity. Thundery showers, visibility poor. Deserts: Cacti, succulents, and acacias. Sparse growth, high temperatures. Dry conditions, visibility excellent. Savannas: Baobab, acacia, and grasses. Seasonal growth, scattered showers. Moderate to good, occasionally poor during storms. Alpine Regions: Pine, fir, and lichen. Slow growth, low temperatures. Snow showers, visibility variable. Wetlands: Mangroves, reeds, and water lilies. Steady growth, high water levels. Misty conditions, visibility poor. Coastal Areas: Salt-tolerant grasses, sea lavender, and samphire. Moderate growth, saline conditions. Breezy, visibility good. Inland Waterways: Willows, alders, and rushes. Steady growth, high moisture. Calm conditions, visibility good.
A while ago, I decide to download a plant identification app, just for fun. It consistently identified what I know for certain is Giant Hogweed, as Wild Angelica. Over and over, various pics at every angle. My son's buddy got severe burns from the plant's sap, as expected from the Giant Hogweed, not Angelica. I would never rely on these apps to accurately ID plants, especially anything toxic/poisonous/dangerous in any way
Most authoritative sources tend to say 'never identify something from a photo alone' - photos are hugely useful, but a photo can't tell you what it smells like, the wider context of where it's growing, the true scale, and so on. The trouble with a lot of these apps is all they have is a photo.
@@jbreckmckye Common hogweed is quite variable and on a couple of occasions, an atypical specimen of common hogweed has given me pause, thinking perhaps I was looking at giant hogweed, but when you see giant hogweed for real, it's quite strikingly different - it's a very much more robust looking plant with all parts being noticeably larger than common hogweed; the leaves are more jagged in appearance; the stems have large, stiff hairs on them that are almost like spines. I think the best way to attain confidence is to seek out a specimen of giant hogweed to look at (don't touch it!), and the differences will will be quite obvious. It's much more dependent on damp, waterside habitats than common hogweed.
Yeah. They also have a tendency to confuse what a plant is at different stages of development or times of the year, too, & I swear the thing somehow knows what plants I already know were in an area, or attempted to buy seed for, because it likes claiming something is several of those plants every time it doesn't know the answer. If plants look too similar & there is no further defining feature, like a flower or fruit, it's basically useless. And, the one I use gives options to focus on fruit, flowers, leaves or bark. It actually doesn't matter, though. It'll give you the exact same list of possibilities every time, no matter which one you pick. Won't even bat an eye if you pick an option for something that isn't even in the picture you're feeding it.
Now, with seeing review one of this scamming books. I realize, I have already fallen for this scam. I bought a book about self-made PV installations and it was full of repetitions and had almost no information besides the "you should inform yourself". No hints, no tips, nothing. I just thought, that someone would make an easy buck by just writhing stuff without context- but that it might be written by AI is my realization now.
Curiously, there's a huge underground colony of Agaricus campestris, the common "supermarket mushroom", right in the block where I live, next to a small supermarket. They stay most of the year underground, but on one particular warm and moist day thousands of white mushrooms would pop up, overnight, "out of nowhere". And then they disappear overnight. I wonder where they end up...
It really is, Ebay too. There's just so many scams and rarely do I see any signs of Amazon and Ebay doing much, if anything, about them. It's appalling, it's almost as if they think they're too big to fail.
I haven't used Amazon in years, apart from 1 time when I needed a black dress asap for a funeral. Mainly that is because of my dislike of Jeff Bezos, (no doubt he feels my lack of custom acutely!) his marketing methods and the way he treats his employees.
Proud to say that I've NEVER or never will order from Amazon! I'm one of the few not too lazy (or claim to be "too busy") to go out and find what I need at local stores!
There are whole TH-cam channels dedicated to making fake books via AI and then selling them in Amazon. Mostly, those guys make colouring books. That second book was clearly made using Chat GPT because the format never changes.
the fact some people are so open in their cringe get rich quick tricks that have zero regard for peoples safety or the sanctity of art makes me so insanely depressed for the future
@@adalex_4290There will always be at least one person who would do that. In the Victorian era, it's Penny Dreadfuls, in the 20th century it's cheap comics using copyrighted characters, in the 21st century it's "cartoons" content mills leading to "Elsagate"...
Somebody found an AI "how to draw" guide where they'd obviously started with AI faces then worked backwards into construction lines, some of which didn't even match the "final" picture.
Greetings, Fellow Human Forager. In order to progress forward, please introduce wild-growing plant and animal products into your alimentary canal in whatever way pleases you. You may collect these items from garden centres, roadside verges, window boxes and certain cemeteries. Enjoy ethically! PS There is no biography of myself as author this prevents me from being sued also I have no bio to graph.
This is the feeling I have had about AI-Generated content that I haven't quite been able to place until now. Even if AI and "robots" don't evolve into the dangers often portrayed in film, books, and other forms of media, they still have potential for great harm. Thank you for this video, Atomic Shrimp. I will be sure to share.
Those AI descriptions remind me of that line in the first Polish encyclopedia "Horse - everyone knows what a horse is". Everyone knows what a dandelion looks like, why would you need to look it up?
That's bad practice, what if horses goes extinct and that book is the only surviving mention of horses. Sounds silly? Well that's pretty much what happened with a lot of things from history, practices and objects are mentioned but never explained, leaving people to guess at what it was.
If you're fortunate enough to have a second hand bookshop - that's the place to look for good books. If they're old and have a name inscribed inside the first owner has treasured it and found it useful. In my view even new books in bookshops are increasingly dodgy.
The only problem I've had with doing that for field guides and naturalist books is, at least in my area, that climate change and encroaching invasive species have vastly changed prospects for foraging as well as things like birding, bug-spotting etc. So it's worth checking if there's updated editions of them or any errata online.
When the new technology is as useless as this, revolving back to the old that worked is the way to go. The world changes for good and bad and sometimes the thing in the past worked better than the new thing
to me it sounds like instead of looking for old books its important to look for books with credible reviews or authors who are already proven to be reliable, of course most old books that are still on sale are probably still avaible as old trash went to trash
I imagine the reason the “no pictures” book endlessly repeats “ethical foraging” even more frequently than the other repetitive filler is because every time they make the AI do a new chunk (that the AI doesn’t realize is connected to the previous ones), the AI they used is programmed with the obligation to always start or end it with foraging ethics when asked a foraging question, since most mainstream and publicly-available generative AI are generally programmed to have legal/safety/ethical disclaimers like that in general. Whoever compiled it all into that book proceeded to NOT trim it out either out of laziness, lack of proofreading, or for the deliberate sake of even more filler.
Thanks so much for showing our foraging book. Marlow and I spent a few years trying to get it fully correct and take the photos we needed. Eric, Wild Food UK
I just bought it due to his recommendation. Really enjoying the simplicity and straightforwardness of it all as someone just starting out! Thanks for all the hard work you and Marlow put into it.
Now You know why i call this Warehouse Scamazon. Fake SD Cards, Fake SSDs, then fake Fuses that doesn't blow at the max rated Amperage and now this...unbelievable,
Well defective and bad products should go somewhere...as well as chinese "branded" SSD`s with JUST slightly used chips, if you are lucky. And half-dead on arrival at worst.
@@vylbird8014Yeah... I really thought it couldn't get more bottom-of-the-barrel than Amazon, but here comes Temu: so bottom-of-the-barrel it's practically in Hell.
Physical books being invaded by AI “creations” are one of the saddest things ever. They’ve never been a definitive source of information (like everything) but they felt at least a bit more formal.
before AI, these scams were written by contractors in third world countries or students, with similar level of inaccuracy. Amazon's print to demand service has always been full of trash like this because there is no vetting. Conventional printing channels will weed out a lot of these scams as your book has to pass checks from editors and agents.
@@marcogenovesi8570 This. Also, even if it's self-published, even THEN just looking for consultants and editors credited in the book is a good sign. Another good tip off is literally checking if it's got reviews for it in Sci-Hub or ArXiv.
@@marcogenovesi8570the only difference is that with AI you can spew out an absolute torrent of garbage at ridiculous rates previous scam books needed to be written by a person, and could take a month or so to receive, while text generation can get you more verbose results within a day, if not faster
I work as a data engineer at an AI company, and I know my salary depends on people wanting AI, but my god do i hate all AI creative content. The people using it to try and replicate true mastery of a subject are the kings of mount stupid in the dunning kruger curve. Its only when you have a modicum of understanding on a subject do you realise how exceptionally bad most LLMs are at everything. As with the images they generate, the end product is something that could feasibly pass as correct, but when looked at properly is actually an amalgamation generic slop which ends up accurately representing nothing.
I think the people _selling_ the books are the opposite of stupid; seems like easy money if the person buying this isn't in the know. It strikes me as an ethical deficit rather than an intellectual one.
@@mqb3gofjzkko7nzx38 True, that's the real best move here. Guess you could go even further and say the people who convince other companies to invest in their "AI solutions" that are just wrappers for ChatGPT are really milking it the most.
Amazon as the publisher should be made liable for books like these if someone is harmed by them. Their failure to vet what is being published is atrocious
I'm in Australia, and i have an *extremely* local plant identification guide, it was written by someone in my hometown, covering an area of about 2hrs of travel by car. There is an entire section on telling apart 19 different plant species, 3 of which are edible. One of those is dandelion, two are varieties of native yam, the others are not edible (though not poisonous). All have overlap in flowers, seed heads, leaves, and/or common names. He includes the ways that the Indigenous people of the area traditionally used the plants, and has a foreword by one of the Elders talking about working with him on learning the traditional plant names and uses. If a book talks about Native, Indigenous, and First Peoples usage of plants, without *any* published commentary by a representative of that People, I don't trust it to be factual and respectful, instead of based on stereotypes, assumptions, and the biased historical accounts of colonisers. A good book references other books, so I always check the books own bibliography, reference page, and dedications to find other books in the same field that have been considered good enough to cite.
Ooo lucky I once spent ages trying to id a ginger bloody had to find an Australian flora and then attempt to read the biology speak. Tbh I still have no idea if I've grown cardamom or native ginger(did id which ginger it would be, if it is ginger) (╥﹏╥)
I reported an electrical item to my local trading standards and they went after the one seller. All the other identical items on Amazon and Ebay remained untouched
@@dshe8637 they don't care about incorrectly labeled electronical items. even resistors that have incorrect ohms are still listed on Amazon YEARS after it's been proven they are incorrect. Amazon is the flee market we though Ebay is.
Sold ON Amazon, not sold BY Amazon. Amazon bans tens of thousands of seller accounts a year and sometimes just can't keep up. I bought a contraband set of brass knuckles hiding in plain sight listed as a "paperweight."
@@samsonsoturian6013They run a business. Maybe if they can’t keep up, something is wrong with how they go about running said business? Maybe?! It’s not some law of Nature that they have to keep accepting new sellers willy-nilly at a rate they can’t keep up. It’s a self-inflicted problem, driven by corporate greed. What you said sounds a bit like you’re defending them - and that’s uncalled for in this case. What you imply is that say if McDonalds was opening new stores faster than they could properly train the employees for, the resulting food safety violations would be… our fault for eating out too much?!
I always suggest that people borrow books from the library whenever they can, sort of try-before-you-buy. Good books (vital for foraging) are expensive, so borrowing them first gives you a chance to see if it really suits you - area and locality, climate etc. Also gives you the chance to find out which authors you like - you're more likely to actually read and use a book if you like it. Libraries will order books in for you. Use your local bookshops, order secondhand online too, and charity shops. In my experience, older books are often more useful and better written than a lot of the modern more lightweight ones. I'm a big fan of John Wright (River Cottage) - he really knows his stuff and writes with huge knowledge, experience with a touch of humour.
I am SO TIRED of having ai shoved into my face in every single corner of the internet that has given me even a second of joy, I can’t even click on a crochet pattern because the are ai generating that too, everyone is getting at best scammed and at worse, killed, and companies do nothing to stop all the slop that keeps popping up, I hate it
I don't forage for edible plants, but I still found this interesting and entertaining. As a couple comments mentioned, this ended up being a field guide on how to spot AI slop masquerading as real useful writing.
I just finished searching Amazon for books in my field of interest to see if I could spot any. Once you know what to look for, it's not difficult to find some very questionable knitting/crochet instruction books.
The 'ultimate' abridged version: Don't eat anything if it's not safe and always forage ethically and sustainably. The End. PS thanks for the 20 quid and good luck!.😂
When you showed the page of book recommendations, my eye wandered over to my bookshelf that holds both Food For Free by Richard Mabey and Mushrooms by Roger Phillips. The Mushrooms book is so detailed (describing spore drop when a cap is left on a sheet of paper overnight), that it sensibly scared me into thinking more carefully about foraging fungi, when I really know too little - and I use it as merely help for identifying things I see, rather than actually foraging any of them, because I really need for in-person training before I attempt that.
Both the Phillips and Mabey books are fabulous, and in my collection. Another particular favourite is The Geography of the Flowering Plants by Ronald Good, dating from the 1940's but revised and republished until the 1970's: though that's for a special reason - my mother did the plant illustrations. She was an art student and received five shillings a time. These days, the illustrator would receive almost as much credit as the author, but she gets just a brief mention in the introduction.
Its kinda ironic how both foraging skills and detecting generative AI are both skills that can only be cultivated with experience and not necessarily taught.
This actually might be your most important video to date. You are likely saving some lives here with this crucial information. Your channel just keeps getting better and better. Thank you, Mr. Shrimp!
Just to add to the intrigue, the brown book seems to be a direct copy of another similar book called the Foragers Guide to Wild Food by Nicole Apelian. I have no idea if the Apelian book is 'real' at all in terms of its content, but it's interesting that this is a direct rip off of another book, presumably designed to pick up an inattentive audience that has seen there is a high-selling brown book about foraging with pictures on the front cover, but can't remember what it is called or the author's name.
There’s an article called “Here Lies the Internet, Murdered by Generative AI” where the author discovers that there are a bunch of useless AI-generated “workbooks” based on his books: “What, exactly, are these ‘workbooks’ for my book? AI pollution. Synthetic trash heaps floating in the online ocean. The authors aren’t real people, some asshole just fed the manuscript into an AI and didn’t check when it spit out nonsensical summaries. But it doesn’t matter, does it? A poor sod will click on the $9.99 purchase one day, and that’s all that’s needed for this scam to be profitable since the process is now entirely automatable and costs only a few cents. Pretty much all published authors are affected by similar scams, or will be soon.”
I have a copy of the Apelian book. It's called The Forager's Guide to Wild Foods. It is specific in context to North America. The background is Brown hexagons containing illustrations of plants. Apelian's book has a glossary of terms and goes over toxic lookalikes. There is a second book in the series that expands and improves upon the first, as well as another on medicinal plants of North America, similarly concise with direct instructions on application and use.
ChatGPT loves its preachy reminders about "be sure to consult multiple sources and practice (topic) ethically and sustainably" at the end of every single output. The people who make these chatbots are complicit in any harm they've caused, no matter how many cover-our-ass warnings they force the AI to add
maybe im biased as a computer science kid. but I don't think "the people who make these chatbots" is a productive group of people to blame. These kinds of things get invented in college as experiments, then some asshat sells them and starts scaling up unsustainably. The technology behind chatgpt is from 20 years ago. Each of these Amazon con artist books took more electrical energy to produce than I will use in my entire lifetime, it is not possible without corporations willing to shovel money at AI.
No. Idiots who treat the output of a chatbot as meaningful are at fault. We've been warned repeatedly that the output is fiction. That is the nature of the tool. It is your fault if you choose to believe it anyway, and also your fault if you recklessly present it to someone else as truth and they believe it and get poisoned.
@@UseZapCannon maybe im biased as a computer science kid. But I dont think "the people who make these chatbots" is a productive group to blame. These kind of things get invented in college as experiments, then some jerk comes in to sell them and scale up unsustainably. The algorithms behind ChatGPT are 20 years old, it's just that now we have enough companies willing to shovel obscene amounts of money into hardware so it can run fast enough to produce this con artist slop on Amazon.
HAHAAhahaha w ait what ? look again! N hohoho n, no there's one at each end(!?) and two in the middle just like a real deer! Toe to Tip. 100% a deer if ever _I_ saw one!
If you look at the page numbers at the bottom, that's one of the very default templates in Microsoft Office, so a theory could be they were generated, pasted into word, using it's default boring template, uploaded to the book program, and gets printed from there. Maybe even as part of a "get rick quick scheme" (since I've seen places advertising such schemes as 'courses')
I noticed that too! Same with the index page which is the default and most common used in Office. The outlining seems weird too. New alineas only having maybe two sentences on one page and then go on on the other page where you have to turn the page. Its a very no no in layout of information books. Just easy copy paste with minimal effort.
If anyone is gonna take anything from this video, I hope it is "support your local bookshop". And if I may add, join your local foraging groups. They are everywhere. Mushroom hunting classes, wilderness education centres, indigenous seed sharing programs, etc. Talking to real people that live close by is always the best best to learn about the real plants that grow close by.
This! I feel much more confident about plants and mushrooms that someone has pointed out to me at one point and especially as a beginner it's good if you can ask someone if you aren't quite sure you identified a specimen correctly.
I sometimes get ads on TH-cam featuring young people who supposedly became millionaires very quickly by generating books like this for sale on Amazon. Of course, you just need to click "here" and pay for a seminar that will teach you how to do the same.
First I saw Louis Rossman's video on the bought-on-Amazon fuses that could harm or kill you (fuses rated for 2 amps that took more than 10 amps to blow, if I'm remembering correctly) and now these books. Caveat Emptor (did I spell that correctly?) is as important as ever.
Not to discount what you said but fuses, even from reputable manufacturers, don't always blow at their rated amperage. Instead, the trip point is a function of amperage and time; a fuse will take longer to trip at low over-current than at high over-current; the curves can be found in the fuse's datasheet. For example, a Bel Fuse 3AB/3ABP rated 20A can withstand 20A indefinitely and time to blow is, on average, 10s at 30A, 2s at 40A, .96s at 60A, and 0.25s at 100A. (The rated current also varies with temperature with the nominal value being at 25°C.) In addition, there is also a sizeable difference in time-to-trip between fuses with the same nominal rating/model. IIRC Dave Jones (EEVblog) did a video on this.
The kind of TH-camr that exposes a scam, goes to a bookstore to get footage, and ends up buying a flower guide because it just looked to good not to? Instant sub
This is crazy. I can understand how people might try to fake something popular but foraging books..maybe I underestimate how popular foraging is but this just seems as an odd niche to fake. Also surprised how people are not afraid to cause harm to someone doing things like this!!!
i doubt it's that they generate for foraging specifically and more that it is so easy to do it for any subject that there are some for every hobby by the same people
I bought a math book on Congruences (an esoteric Math topic) and it followed a very similar pattern. I was completely confused as to why anyone would write something like that. After this video I understand
Regarding which book to buy. I would like to add an option for those who cannot afford to buy books. Local libraries tend to be a very good place for guides on local plants and wildlife, and library staff know their stuff too. Visit your local libraries and see what they have to offer. The more members those libraries have and the more books they loan out, the more funding they receive. Also be aware that (I believe) all libraries in the UK have scrapped late fee charges if you miss your return date on your book, meaning that there's no chance of being out of pocket at all even if you're a bit forgetful or life gets the better of you. Libraries are completely free and if we want to keep them around, we need to keep frequenting them. Many libraries also have free seed sharing if you want to do a bit of gardening too.
I did some digging and unsurprisingly I found both book on amazon but under a different name/author. I assume thats to get around detections for a while until its taken down again just so they can make as much money as possible
bad enough there are tons of websites with this bad info but physically printing them makes me physically sick! now there's actual garbage and waste and packaging and shipping and logistics like... exponentially worse in my opinion
When you have an essay, which is definitely due at midnight, and you really need to hit the word count so that your essay on foraging, which again is due at midnight, gets a passing score.
Edit: I thought I had the same book (1:24 ) but mine is by Nicole Apelian PhD and includes maps and pictures. The cover of the book you bought is a knock off. I got mine in a local used book store. Thank you for educating us with these important insights.
Crazy how a quick search for "ultimate foraging" immediately revealed a dozen or so books like this. No quality control whatsoever on Amazon publishing.
I cannot believe Rowan Finch never brought up, not even once, the issue of ethical foraging, I don't think this fella is a trustworthy worthy person. This also brings me back to Folding Ideas video on the Contrepreneurs, the sad part is, at least in that grift, an unknown ghost writer was getting paid a bit, here there is not even that.
@@jaxbayne Wouldn't trespassing count as an ethical issue. Trespassing onto someone's estate/property; no matter where it is, in regards to foraging; could be tantamount to theft and trespassing charges combined.
@@bigboydancannon4325 Was it Folding Ideas who sent pictures of his kid to a known paedophile to 'cheer them up' or am I (hopefully) horribly confusing him with someone else?
Those fake foraging book are the stuff of nightmares. Just go to a actual book store or charity shop. I bought a book called "the campfire cookbook" i thought it would just be a recipe book, but i was impressed with the details they added before you even get to the recipes. "Setting up camp" "essential equipment" "what do do if you become lost or separated" "Only eat what you can safely identify when foraging" And i still have that book
The video by dan olsen [folding ideas] about contrapraneurs is an excellent corollary for this video as you get to see how this scam is perpretrated. Its wild to see these types of books end up on the channel of someone who looks just like Olsen
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Stuff made by AI need to be labeled as such. Stuff made with primarily AI assets need to be labeled as such. We need it explicitly identifiable. Even putting the ethics (or lack thereof) of using AI aside, people have the right to know if whatever they're seeing was created by a person or not.
This really serves as a field guide to scam books on amazon. Went searching in my field of expertise (russian language) and with surprisingly little scrolling found an introduction to russian bearing all the hallmarks of an AI book, down to the pattern of triple adjectives and all that.
In case no one else comments, to clear up the book printings; Amazon have a sort of self-publishing system where they'll print books for you as long as they get a cut of the profits. It's pretty good for witers without many starting funds and also apparantly, scammers. I'd know this as I was interested in publishing my own novels/poems with it and hopefully making a little money between breaks at college. Unfortunately I never quite figured it out. Hopefully very little people fall for these scams and Amazon cracks down on them a little more than they appear to be doing currently..
4:50 from a former amazon employee- amazon prints some of its own books in-house adjacent to their FCs. I worked stow and it was always an easy night if I got stationed on the first floor adjacent to the printers... very easy to hit your rate quota when you're just stowing books. If you were good/lucky in a night you could do 2000 "small" items to meet your quota, and after that nobody complained about your performance as long as you kept your takt time (average time between stows) to like 5 minutes max. And these look very much like the sort of flimsy, low-res books we were stowing, if indeed one wishes to call them books. Don't get me started on all the AI generated "coloring books" either
personally already aware of these but watching and commenting to boost bc i want as many people to know about this as possible. esp bc i feel like foraging is sort of popular rn with some of the tiktok/reels foragers posting about it. they post awareness of these books too but not everyone sees every post so
I used one of your previous videos to advise on field guide and plant identifying books to get someone as a wedding present (from a second hand bookshop). They were well received and I'm glad I didn't get stung by one of these scams. Keep up the good work!
God I fucking hate ai slop , it's not enough that googling anything brings up on endless articles of the same repetitive ai written articles that are useless and repeats useless babble for the entire "article" while throwing ads constantly at you but now the parasites are selling books made with this slop ?? I'm surprised that there isn't a full page ad every 3 pages in these "books". For anyone interested in these things please buy books from authors who are confirmed botanists, pharmacists , doctors etc.
Amazon employee here. Amazon can print books one-at-a-time for any author, so these books don't even exist until you buy them, at which point they go through a process called POD, or Print On Demand.
@@soundspark That's a good question - so what would happen is that IF it gets reported to customer services (and it's usually a FAT IF because most sellers say dumb shit like "Email US for support :)" to delay this, but if there's a single report of something off, the Customer Services rep can immediately take it off of the website while it's investigated, and to be fair it very often is investigated quite fast.. Amazon isn't the best but they do answer those quickly because bad rep is bad
@@kevinh5212 Can I give you the listing number(s) of a fake product that is an electrocution hazard? I reported the issue, and my review was removed. A few listings: B0868N3JS4 B09GW642F1 B0CY2C4GNF B0D5MD5WG1 B0CZ98WZ4N
Amazon customer and one-man watchdog here. Amazon's reporting method for problematic product listings is so deeply-buried and obfuscated that it might as well not exist. It is unclear whether 'report a problem' goes to the seller, or to Amazon, or just disappears into the ether, and on the occasions when I have tried live chat to report a scam, the Amazon employees I communicate with typically just argue that it isn't.
@AtomicShrimp That's a very valid point - typically these go through to CS who then have to escalate. I'm gonna be honest with you, when Andy Jassy took over he laid off a lot of them who worked primarily in India (Hyderabad is the most common city). This left them with a skeleton crew who no longer have time to deep-dive these issues, and I think that it shows. They have no bandwidth to do anything anymore because Amazon is still convinced AI will be coming soon
That book on Mediterranean flowers looks absolutely exquisite, Mike. I'll never go to the Med (the heat would literally kill me), but I might have to get a copy of that beautiful book. Food For Free - I've had a copy of that for as long as I can remember - a rather battered hardback, with the odd flower or two pressed in it. I have that more modern edition, too. It's a fun, helpful, and useful book, from where I found out what the word 'Bletted' meant, how to make an edible Nut Cutlet, and how to make incredible booze with Beech leaves. Those two from Amazon, though... Wow. What a waste of paper. Good find of that Larousse flower guide. It's a superb book. Great illustrations, tons of information, and it's easy to find the flower you are interested in - simply grouping flowers by colour, and having that colour on the top of the page, so if it's a yellow flower, flick through until you get to the pages with the yellow tops, and search from there.
In the same style (I think it's a series) there are books too with flowers of the Alps and of other regions. My mother had several of them in her bookcase. Probably you can find a nice book on 'flowers of the British isles' or something like that in a second-hand bookstore.
@@manfredrichtoften8848 - Sadly, I have a hereditary genetic condition which affects my body temperature regulation - my mother and grandmother both suffered from it. I don't tan, either - I just blister, and it makes no difference whatsoever putting sun screen on. I have been sunburnt cycling to work at six in the morning in the summer months. I just cover up and wait for autumn. I have dreaded and hated summer all my life. What you might perceive as 'warm', I feel as very hot - and if I get hot, it takes several hours to cool down again. There are photos of me, at the seaside, on a family holiday - but I would have been out, uncovered for no more than about 20 minutes, if that. I had tests for the condition as a child, and as a teenager - it has got worse as I have got older. I'd love to go abroad; I'm fascinated by history, and would loved to have gone to Greece, or Turkey (to see the ruins of Troy), but there's little point, as I'd spend most of the time in my hotel room, trying not to die of heat exhaustion. I'm an old man now, and I'm quite happy to look at beautiful stuff in books.
This is why I’m against AI thoroughly. Not only is there the threat of replacing humans, but the shit the AI makes up on the spot can actually be dangerous. Another great example is gemini telling people to put glue on their pizza
I hate AI as well but at the moment it's like a 6th grader trying to write an essay to word count. Sadly AI will get better in copying good writing and that's very scary
Thank you!!! I love how you do your videos. I clicked because I have a picture of my child using their cell phone while looking at a mushroom. I am sharing your video. They are smart so the false book will likely be obvious to them, but your recommendations on using books founded on Geographic Specificity and to not use apps (but field guides instead) are very helpful and make the video worth sharing to them. And, who knows, we may have another Atomic Shrimp fan in the family!
For the US, I recommend David Aurora's "Mushrooms Demystified" and "All the Rain Promises and More" for would-be mushroom foragers. Even if you never end up foraging, the books are well written and entertaining. I would also recommend seeing if there are any mycology groups in your area who are open to help you learn before you start harvesting.
I was one of the many artists who voiced against advancing AI, especially AI art since it’s such a lucrative business model and it’s killing actual artists who rely on commissions. I was shut down by many because they think there’s nothing wrong with it, and that us artists should be replaced, just like what happened during the industrial revolution. They didn’t care about the soul of the artwork and think artists are charging too much compared to AI generated stuff. Lo and behold, where has that mindset taken us to? Every time, everywhere I look, AI leave a trail of mess behind them.
*Erratum:* 19:05 The green book is the one Amazon didn't want back; the brown one is the one they delisted - I got these facts conflated in my head at that point in the video.
*Afterthoughts & Addenda*
*Appearance of these books in other online stores* (e.g. Waterstones) - I think this is a result of some integration that allows Amazon's KDP users to publish to Waterstones storefront.
*The Five-Legged Deer* at about 16:00 in the video. Can you believe I completely overlooked that?! In my defense, my brain was mushy goo at this point in the recording session, from having spent several hours reading these terrible books. I did notice that the bear is curiously well-groomed though.
Good that you bring this up. People should be able to trust the books they buy, fair if they admit it's AI written, Always research books such as this if you can't find collaborating facts about them do not buy them. Proper universal guides for identifying plants and mushrooms are a great subject for this channel. Combining scams and foraging, so like 90% of your channels content.
I'm glad you got to keep the pictures, at least.
It is bound to turn up eventually:
The Atomic Shrimp Guide to Foraging...
I always knew books were a scam!
Have you seen Folding Ideas's video on 'Contrepreneurs: The Mikkelsen Twins' he did a year or so ago? This reeks of people doing the exact same thing but replacing the underpaid ghost writers with generative AI. (Which is funny enough one of the things I predicted would happen when the initial IA hype-explosion happened). I basically turned to my friend and said "oh boy here comes the grey goo,".
AI submissions choked up the sci-fi fantasy magazines too, and it was very clear it was people from outside the sci-fi fantasy community looking to make a quick buck (who apparently think they're actually for making money and not just a reward for writers starting out and looking to cut their teeth...)
The MO is just generating as much low-quality rubbish as possible in the hopes of catching someone out before it gets removed or straight up drowning out submissions by actual, real *passionate* people. In some cases its just silly, but in many its really damaging. :(
The idea of no pictures in a foraging book is wild
Seemed tame to me :)
Like trying to pin a tail on a donkey blindfolded.
it is a scam, after all
Wild! ISWYDT
@TrueSeed-ft1jn
Or you could have a picture of two plants and point out the differences.
Kind of a miracle that the books didn't invent any non-existent plants to forage.
generative machine learning is a plagiarism machine, the only way I could see that happening is if it managed to steal 'real' fictional plants from somewhere like Skyrim
that would have been safer
The Voynich Manuscript
@@DarkDraconX1 the voynich manuscript is proof of AI scams existing 1000 years ago
Of course it didn't. It's not a human.
This has to be the most Atomic Shrimp video ever. Foraging, scams and strange AI stuff. If only it could have been part of a limited budget challenge.
Limited budget challenge: can I survive on one pound and things foraged only using a worthless ai book
Foraging can be considered a limited budget thing from a perspective.
With a weird drink in a can to wash it all down with
Got his money back on both, budget = £0.
In a can
100% agree on drawn illustrations being superior to photos. Not only because there is no distracting background foliage, and general specimen variety, but also because drawings can show what any given species looks like in different stages of growth really elegantly, without having to resort to printing more than five different pictures. Not to mention the endless frustration with different angles of view, things like, what do the leaves look like on the side that's facing the ground? Or how are the axils structured? and so on.
+illustrations can highlight the more identifiable elements and include additional close up detail parts, which isn't as easy to do with photos.
i think the ideal format would be illustrations AND photos - an illustration pointing out all the identifiable details AND a picture to see an example of what it genuinely looks like in real life
The only time I had to rely on drawn illustrations and descriptive text to identify plants was for a game that used fake plants that looked very different in real life. I suspect I am not the only one who is useless at this and would very much prefer a set of full-color photos. That said, my main take-away is that foraging is not for me and that I will be useless if left in the wild. We can't all be survivors.
And they are often beautiful! There are great illustrations of plants. I am working on my plant-drawing skills, maybe that's where us artists will still be needed in the future.
I agree! I never looked at it like that before.
8:29 "Wild carrots can be mistaken for poisonous hemlock." Love the phrasing there. Though to be fair, I certainly hate it when I think I'm picking hemlock, but I'm actually picking wild carrots, and end up spending the next few days feeling like a complete idiot wondering why the victim isn't dying.
Just gotta hope at that point that maybe they're allergic to carrots :P
There's nothing worse than trying to do some witchcraft and ending up with stew instead
Hmmm. I hate carrots, but my husband of almost 50 years is always trying to get me to eat them. You’d think he’d have straightened this out by now.
@@ebnertra0004 the amount of times i’ve tried to craft deadly poisons and just ended up making a delicious meal 😔
And now their eyesight is better.
Alternate video title:
The Atomic Shrimp video guide to locating, identifying, and examining amazon-listed books and pamphlets of dubious, bad, not good quality, which pertain to the collection and gathering of plants, flora, and fungi which appear food-like or edible, but are in fact, poison.
The criticism was devastating and joyful.
And identification of dandelions, nettles and The Atomic Shrimp video guide to locating, identifying, and examining amazon-listed books and pamphlets of dubious, bad, not good quality, which pertain to the collection and gathering of plants, flora, and fungi which appear food-like or edible, but are in fact, poison and the identification of dandelions
I don’t think there’d be enough characters for that. 🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣😆😆😂🤣😂🤣
@@anneliesemodeker2104 Thats only two adjectives, you need three
Another smaller detail of note is that the AI "books" make no consideration about the format of the book. A field guide - as the name implies - is meant to be a small book concentating on the most crucial details of whichever plant you are trying to identify in the field, minimizing size and maximizing portability.
Those AI-bominations have the format of something like an herbology book, which should include a lot more info, which (while interesting) would be trivial for identification - such as historical usage, folklore, etc.
I'm assuming Amazon's KDP must have options for book format, but that the scammers chose the largest one because it sounds more 'ultimate' to a potential customer who is only skimming the listing.
@@AtomicShrimp 400 packages is for Print on Demand no problem .(the preprint of book from my grandpa had iirc 396 or 400 pages)
Somewhat related: I'd love to see you build a super unique birdhouse with one clear glass or plexiglass room. 🚨 What type of birds visit your yard? and do you or will you plant certain plants to attract certain BIRDS? 💭 Hello from New Castle, Delaware USA. @@AtomicShrimp
@@AtomicShrimpWould you ever bake mushroom & onion bread with butter topped? Sound good? Even though I'm not a forager I found this video very interesting!
@@AtomicShrimp I suspect it's more likely to be about price, booklets like this with what looks like A4 sized pages are probably cheaper to print.
16:08 - Don't be so flippant Mr Shrimp! There are many different types of bears some of which can be nutrititious, entertaining, wild, dangerous or hungry. The simple thing to do is rub the bear on you elbow and wait thirty minutes or so see if safe to proceed to further tests such as tasing a small piece of the bear.
Wait until the bear rubs you back!!! It might be a little vicious on the rubbing, don´t fret!!! It only wants to taste test you!!!
I wonder how well that test works with parasites like Trichinosis(edit: disease is that, parasite is trichinella AI will probably confuse it too). Bear meat at least here requires proper cooking...
Instructions unclear: the bear has now tasted a small piece of me. Please advise.
Caution: do not purchase any guide to foraging bear from an author named Robert F Kennedy Jr.
Beery
I am a biology teacher and this gave me the idea to do a "real or GPT" assignment with my classes. I'll have gpt make me a "field guide" page about one plant and print one out about the same plant from my books. And ill have them present the difference, mistakes and things they notice, as well as telling me which is which. Ill give each duo their own plant. I think its a good assignment for the 12 year olds.
The thing that's kind of concerning to me is that this stuff is obviously fake, but mostly because it was lazy. With a bit more effort on formatting, and prompting with examples of exactly what sort of output you want, you could probably get results that look a lot closer to what you'd expect from a legitimate guide.
That said, if people were inclined to put in that work, they wouldn't be generating books to sell on amazon.
@@seigeengine yeah, I would be more worried about AI getting better than humans being less lazy. The moment this doesn't work as a 'passive income' anymore, they will likely jump ship before they entertain the thought of spending days tweaking at it.
This is going to be a really vital skill to learn for children -- being able to avoid Turingschande will be crucial in the future.
@@noecarrier5035 Yeah, I really incorporate skills needed in modern day. From being able to spot fake news (all that vaccine, the pil, vitamins bullcrap) to knowing when someone is just trying to sell you something and now to recognise false AI information. You'd be surprised at how absolutely gullible most teens are. As critical as they like to think themselves as.
Awesome
Even the name Rowan Finch itself sounds like you asked ChatGPT to come up with an author of a nature book.
Searched the name to see if I could find this so-called author, and I found a handful of people with that name who had nothing to do with foraging. Thankfully, for the real people by that name, they're far enough removed from the topic that this garbage couldn't cause them reputational harm. Whoever sharted the book out should still be held accountable, though.
I was going to say the same thing!
I am highly offended by your comment saying that 'Rowan Finch' is a fake name. (signed) "Mrs Oak Sparrow, 13 Bee Dandylion Lane, UpperWest Middle Lower Sussex, Englishland". Thank you for your purchase :)
Better than Willow Heatherbrook, but only marginally
@@KiwiCatherineJemma bRo got the 3 sides /4 sQuare
You wouldn't forage a bear.
You wouldn't dowload a car.
You wouldn't forage a bear. Unless you were Robert Kennedy Junior.
I won't dowload a car, especially when the Ngine isn't on there *wink*
actually i would download a car
Well RFKII foraged a bear and Musk wants you to download car upgrades!
I would download a car though, just need bigger and better 3d printers.
"Forage the Bear" sounds like the title to one of those wretched businessman's self-help books.
"what big business doesnt want you to know about bear forging"
step 1. find a bear
Or a Cold War survival guide for downed American pilots in Soviet Russia.
I couldn't resist trying a prompt or two.
"Forage the Bear: A Guide to the Practice and Ethics of Short-Selling in Financial Markets" explores short-selling through the lens of significant market events, notably the collapse of Bear Stearns. The book delves into the mechanics and strategies of short-selling, using Bear Stearns' downfall as a case study to illustrate the practice's impact. It details how traders bet against the company's stock amid mounting financial troubles, highlighting both the technical execution and ethical considerations of short-selling.
The book examines the role short-sellers played in the Bear Stearns crisis, discussing whether their actions were a catalyst for the collapse or a natural response to underlying issues. By integrating this high-profile example, the book offers insights into the broader consequences of short-selling and its ethical implications in times of market stress.
To me it sounds like a gay romance with a bushcraft survival backdrop
In one video you might have said “safe and ethical foraging” as many times as you’ve said “the kind of details you should never share with a stranger in the internet.”
There was a drawing in some 1990s magazine: a man bought a book about mushrooms, and while walking happily to test it, he loses a small card with a writing: "ERRATA: page 72, is: edible, should be: poisonous". Now this is entirely new level…
That was all too real. That actual book - it really exists - had that very errata slip, later a proper errata section. And my mate ate it - the fungi, not the book. Luckily, it only made him hot, sweaty and with chronic indigestion. But, yeah, poisonous.
@@robertwilloughby8050 yikes!
@@robertwilloughby8050
@@robertwilloughby8050 Thank you for clarifying that he ate the fungi and not the book.
@@robertwilloughby8050 chronic indigestion must suck
Using AI to make books and art is already scummy, but the idea of making a foraging book, something that could literally be the means between life and death, is a new level of evil.
Using AI in general to write books is not scumming. However not checking that the information that it generated is correct especially in a situation like this is scummy.
@@involuntarilycelebratewhy should I bother to read a book no one bothered to write?
@@tarotreadingsbysteven8545 brilliantly said
Just commented exactly the same. 100% agree
@@involuntarilycelebrate How is using a software to compile stolen information, and presenting it as original work, instead of doing the work yourself, not scummy?
A minute of silence for our ancestors who kicked the bucket while finding out what is edible and what is not.
Especial thanks to whoever persisted after taking a big bite of a ginger root.
@@pattheplanterCan we put a curse on whoever decided lemongrass was edible?
@@drunkenhobo8020 I like lemongrass tea! 😭
You know what is messed up. Peppers and well not peppers... All of them varying degrees of painful or numbing...
Fortunately, our ancestors were the ones who got lucky.
If I had to guess, ChatGPT notices when people write articles/recipes/etc online, they tend to use those random series' of adjectives to spice up otherwise monotonous sentences. It understands and categorizes this practice as being "good" and "human" because it's something most people do when writing. What it DOESN'T understand is that people usually have an upper limit of how many times you can add those series' before it becomes monotonous again. In essence, in trying to not sound boring and repetitive, it becomes so verbose and "flavorful" that it sounds boring and repetitive again. A good test for whether something was written by a person or not is if there is some amount of variance in sentence structure - particularly the inclusion of some very brief and simple sentences. Another test, for longer pieces of writing, is that people tend to have words they like to use and reuse a lot without noticing, which is something an AI would similarly try to avoid to stop sounding repetitive. For me, I use a lot of qualifiers - tend to, mostly, often, somewhat, usually, etc. because I don't like to make certain statements. I notice AI tends to not do this and prefers to make either completely certain or really vague statements that don't need those kinds of qualifiers. It issues statements and commands, not suggestions and guesses.
ChatGPT is also being asked to essentially write a hundred or so introductory paragraphs about food so it uses the language recipe sites use in introductory paragraphs for search engine optimization.
The part about repeated words can also apply to machine-generated text (I refuse to call it AI-generated, there is not one iota of intelligence in these glorified pattern-recognizers) in the sense that a large written work created by a single person will contain quirks of word usage and sentence construction that are universal throughout the entire thing. Text generated with simpler public facing models like ChatGPT are only able to generate a couple hundred to a couple thousand words of text at a time, so a larger work must be made out of smaller pieces of generated text spliced together. In addition to causing major problems with the flow from once part to the other, this also means that any writing quirks present in one section likely won't carry over to another, aside from the ones shared by all machine-generated text.
AI text has always been like a parrot; it can be trained words to repeat and have some understanding of corelation, but it will never actually understand what it means, and iscthys liable to misuse it.
@@jampine8268 I seaward you did there.
That makes sense since AI isn't a program that thinks for itself but just spews back what it's coded with and has absolutely no intelligence or personality
7:09 I love the fact that almost every paragraph starts with "Foraging..." which is one of those things a human writer or editor would definitely try to avoid because it reads awfully and looks worse.
It might have even been intentional to stop the AI from getting sidetracked
'Generative AI makes life better and the future is now!'
And then the Generative AI spits out some books on foraging so incompetent I wouldn't fully trust them to tell me the edibility of plants in a supermarket.
*Looks at small, squatty plant in flowerpot with bulbous leaves*
"This is an edible squash!"
*Looks at plant with spikes*
"This is a cabbage! It is edible!"
It has it's uses, but over-reliance is a big mistake (Fatal in the case of this video and the one on those Apps).
@@hakonsoreide Convenient to use a useful piece of technology as a crutch for your false equivalence. The knife is vital in many, MANY every day uses. It's an incredibly simple yet useful tool even today. What use does AI generated trash have other than to massively boost crime of opportunity cases? That's all it matters, the benefits to detriments ratio.
@@sophiedowney1077plot twist: it’s a durian. (Spiky, but the yellow insides are edible)
"Generative AI makes life better and the future is now" - ChatGPT
There is just something so completely satisfying in watching someone knowledgeable on a topic tackle completely wrong information
You must really enjoy attending Sociology classes. But it slowly crushed my soul teaching them.
Also why I love miniminuteman, a channel doling the same thing but for archaeology
The first time I used ChatGPT, I tested it by asking it questions about the subject of my PhD. It made some diagrams that looked really cool, and said some things which sounded impressive, but were in fact, nonsense.
For something less obscure, I asked it to draw the structure of benzene, also total failure.
This stuff isn't going to replace everyone's jobs. It'll find use in some niche applications that it's specifically trained to do under the supervision of humans where it performs faster and/or better than humans. But it's a bubble at the moment which people are trying to use to make a quick profit from and end up looking silly.
As somebody who occasionally uses the (German ~20 minute) shipping forecast as a cure for sleepless nights, I would definitely click on "2 hours of Atomic Shrimp reading a botanical field guide". North Utsire, South Utsire, Hemlock, Water Dropwort: flowers yellow, seven to eight, light rain, later deadly.
You wrote more literature in one line than ChatGPT in all those « books ».
Brilliant: ‘liver failure, rising to jaundice, death within 3 days. Winds southerly, with moderate to severe vomiting. Visibility poor with retina, haemorrhage’
I wouldn’t be able to get to sleep for laughing. 😂
@@lesleydickson7746 I asked Bing Copilot and you're not wrong:
Botanical Forecast
Issued: 31 August 2024 at 1600 UTC
General Synopsis: High pressure over the Mediterranean, moving east. Low pressure over the Atlantic, drifting north-east.
Area Forecasts:
Temperate Deciduous Forests: Oak, beech, and maple. Growth steady, leaves broadening. Moderate to good, occasionally poor under canopy.
Tropical Rainforests: Mahogany, kapok, and rubber. Rapid growth, high humidity. Thundery showers, visibility poor.
Deserts: Cacti, succulents, and acacias. Sparse growth, high temperatures. Dry conditions, visibility excellent.
Savannas: Baobab, acacia, and grasses. Seasonal growth, scattered showers. Moderate to good, occasionally poor during storms.
Alpine Regions: Pine, fir, and lichen. Slow growth, low temperatures. Snow showers, visibility variable.
Wetlands: Mangroves, reeds, and water lilies. Steady growth, high water levels. Misty conditions, visibility poor.
Coastal Areas: Salt-tolerant grasses, sea lavender, and samphire. Moderate growth, saline conditions. Breezy, visibility good.
Inland Waterways: Willows, alders, and rushes. Steady growth, high moisture. Calm conditions, visibility good.
I would love that
A while ago, I decide to download a plant identification app, just for fun. It consistently identified what I know for certain is Giant Hogweed, as Wild Angelica. Over and over, various pics at every angle. My son's buddy got severe burns from the plant's sap, as expected from the Giant Hogweed, not Angelica. I would never rely on these apps to accurately ID plants, especially anything toxic/poisonous/dangerous in any way
Most authoritative sources tend to say 'never identify something from a photo alone' - photos are hugely useful, but a photo can't tell you what it smells like, the wider context of where it's growing, the true scale, and so on. The trouble with a lot of these apps is all they have is a photo.
By the way, how do I consistently ID giant hogweed vs just ordinary hogweed? I live in the SE and hogweeds grow on every corner
@@jbreckmckye Common hogweed is quite variable and on a couple of occasions, an atypical specimen of common hogweed has given me pause, thinking perhaps I was looking at giant hogweed, but when you see giant hogweed for real, it's quite strikingly different - it's a very much more robust looking plant with all parts being noticeably larger than common hogweed; the leaves are more jagged in appearance; the stems have large, stiff hairs on them that are almost like spines.
I think the best way to attain confidence is to seek out a specimen of giant hogweed to look at (don't touch it!), and the differences will will be quite obvious. It's much more dependent on damp, waterside habitats than common hogweed.
@@AtomicShrimpThe same is true for calorie counting apps based on photos. They simply don't work correctly.
Yeah. They also have a tendency to confuse what a plant is at different stages of development or times of the year, too, & I swear the thing somehow knows what plants I already know were in an area, or attempted to buy seed for, because it likes claiming something is several of those plants every time it doesn't know the answer. If plants look too similar & there is no further defining feature, like a flower or fruit, it's basically useless. And, the one I use gives options to focus on fruit, flowers, leaves or bark. It actually doesn't matter, though. It'll give you the exact same list of possibilities every time, no matter which one you pick. Won't even bat an eye if you pick an option for something that isn't even in the picture you're feeding it.
Now, with seeing review one of this scamming books. I realize, I have already fallen for this scam. I bought a book about self-made PV installations and it was full of repetitions and had almost no information besides the "you should inform yourself". No hints, no tips, nothing. I just thought, that someone would make an easy buck by just writhing stuff without context- but that it might be written by AI is my realization now.
Hope you can get a refund at least
@@SneakyBeakySpy It was too late. The book is not listet anymore.
@@corsa701it doesn't matter. You can still get that refunded.
15:20 "availability in shops"
Yes, the supermarket is my favourate place to forage mushrooms from (one of the reasons security hates me).
Curiously, there's a huge underground colony of Agaricus campestris, the common "supermarket mushroom", right in the block where I live, next to a small supermarket. They stay most of the year underground, but on one particular warm and moist day thousands of white mushrooms would pop up, overnight, "out of nowhere". And then they disappear overnight. I wonder where they end up...
Chat GPT spouting ethics over and over is a certain kind of irony.
I hate the term virtue signalling but that's what openAI has to do with chatgpt because its services are so unethical in the first place
Ethics is a concept totally unknown to AI .
@@ulrikesextro4187anything is pretty much unknown to ai. It only knows examples, not concepts themselves
@@ulrikesextro4187 and its users
I'm slowly but surely weening myself off of using Amazon altogether. It's almost entirely full of garbage now.
A.K.A. Scamazon.
So glad that amazon isn't available here. Aliexpress is just way better.
It really is, Ebay too. There's just so many scams and rarely do I see any signs of Amazon and Ebay doing much, if anything, about them. It's appalling, it's almost as if they think they're too big to fail.
I haven't used Amazon in years, apart from 1 time when I needed a black dress asap for a funeral. Mainly that is because of my dislike of Jeff Bezos, (no doubt he feels my lack of custom acutely!) his marketing methods and the way he treats his employees.
Proud to say that I've NEVER or never will order from Amazon! I'm one of the few not too lazy (or claim to be "too busy") to go out and find what I need at local stores!
There are whole TH-cam channels dedicated to making fake books via AI and then selling them in Amazon. Mostly, those guys make colouring books.
That second book was clearly made using Chat GPT because the format never changes.
the fact some people are so open in their cringe get rich quick tricks that have zero regard for peoples safety or the sanctity of art makes me so insanely depressed for the future
@@adalex_4290There will always be at least one person who would do that. In the Victorian era, it's Penny Dreadfuls, in the 20th century it's cheap comics using copyrighted characters, in the 21st century it's "cartoons" content mills leading to "Elsagate"...
man, who needs sociopathy when the profit motive produces sociopathic behavior in people all on its own?
Yes, there's that persistent ad with the blonde woman triumphantly crowing that she makes a fortune selling otherwise worthless text
Somebody found an AI "how to draw" guide where they'd obviously started with AI faces then worked backwards into construction lines, some of which didn't even match the "final" picture.
'goodbye to us' an AI generated foraging guide for beginners
"Native and Dimensionally-Invasive Flora of Slaughter Valley"
Greetings, Fellow Human Forager. In order to progress forward, please introduce wild-growing plant and animal products into your alimentary canal in whatever way pleases you. You may collect these items from garden centres, roadside verges, window boxes and certain cemeteries. Enjoy ethically!
PS There is no biography of myself as author this prevents me from being sued also I have no bio to graph.
And it's about the end of the empire 😭.
This is the feeling I have had about AI-Generated content that I haven't quite been able to place until now. Even if AI and "robots" don't evolve into the dangers often portrayed in film, books, and other forms of media, they still have potential for great harm. Thank you for this video, Atomic Shrimp. I will be sure to share.
Those AI descriptions remind me of that line in the first Polish encyclopedia "Horse - everyone knows what a horse is". Everyone knows what a dandelion looks like, why would you need to look it up?
Or Baldrick's definition of 'Dog' - which was 'Not a cat'
@@AtomicShrimp Baldrick would probably write a better foraging guide than whatever these were 😭
That's bad practice, what if horses goes extinct and that book is the only surviving mention of horses. Sounds silly? Well that's pretty much what happened with a lot of things from history, practices and objects are mentioned but never explained, leaving people to guess at what it was.
There's like 250 species of them.
Still a better love story than Twilight. Not a good reference, though.
If you're fortunate enough to have a second hand bookshop - that's the place to look for good books. If they're old and have a name inscribed inside the first owner has treasured it and found it useful. In my view even new books in bookshops are increasingly dodgy.
The only problem I've had with doing that for field guides and naturalist books is, at least in my area, that climate change and encroaching invasive species have vastly changed prospects for foraging as well as things like birding, bug-spotting etc. So it's worth checking if there's updated editions of them or any errata online.
You don't need to have a second hand bookshop near you as may (most?) such shops also sell their books via Amazon Marketplace, Ebay etc.
Many countries have huge online second hand bookshops, which are great options if there are no physical ones nearby.
When the new technology is as useless as this, revolving back to the old that worked is the way to go. The world changes for good and bad and sometimes the thing in the past worked better than the new thing
to me it sounds like instead of looking for old books its important to look for books with credible reviews or authors who are already proven to be reliable, of course most old books that are still on sale are probably still avaible as old trash went to trash
Some AI responses to prompts and questions are genuinely deranged
Lol
@jd_the_catfinally a practical application for AI. Coming up with backronyms
@jd_the_catLMAOOOO 😂
Clearly someone has never foraged a bear
I imagine the reason the “no pictures” book endlessly repeats “ethical foraging” even more frequently than the other repetitive filler is because every time they make the AI do a new chunk (that the AI doesn’t realize is connected to the previous ones), the AI they used is programmed with the obligation to always start or end it with foraging ethics when asked a foraging question, since most mainstream and publicly-available generative AI are generally programmed to have legal/safety/ethical disclaimers like that in general.
Whoever compiled it all into that book proceeded to NOT trim it out either out of laziness, lack of proofreading, or for the deliberate sake of even more filler.
Thanks so much for showing our foraging book. Marlow and I spent a few years trying to get it fully correct and take the photos we needed. Eric, Wild Food UK
Big fan of the channel - the attention to detail really stands out
I just bought it due to his recommendation. Really enjoying the simplicity and straightforwardness of it all as someone just starting out! Thanks for all the hard work you and Marlow put into it.
Now You know why i call this Warehouse Scamazon.
Fake SD Cards, Fake SSDs, then fake Fuses that doesn't blow at the max rated Amperage and now this...unbelievable,
Well defective and bad products should go somewhere...as well as chinese "branded" SSD`s with JUST slightly used chips, if you are lucky. And half-dead on arrival at worst.
I still remember when it actually had good products instead of being wish 2
It's still better than Temu. But really this is a problem with all retail aggregators.
@@vylbird8014Yeah... I really thought it couldn't get more bottom-of-the-barrel than Amazon, but here comes Temu: so bottom-of-the-barrel it's practically in Hell.
@@kiricappuchinnot to mention AliExpress
Physical books being invaded by AI “creations” are one of the saddest things ever.
They’ve never been a definitive source of information (like everything) but they felt at least a bit more formal.
before AI, these scams were written by contractors in third world countries or students, with similar level of inaccuracy. Amazon's print to demand service has always been full of trash like this because there is no vetting. Conventional printing channels will weed out a lot of these scams as your book has to pass checks from editors and agents.
@@marcogenovesi8570 This. Also, even if it's self-published, even THEN just looking for consultants and editors credited in the book is a good sign.
Another good tip off is literally checking if it's got reviews for it in Sci-Hub or ArXiv.
@@marcogenovesi8570the only difference is that with AI you can spew out an absolute torrent of garbage at ridiculous rates
previous scam books needed to be written by a person, and could take a month or so to receive, while text generation can get you more verbose results within a day, if not faster
@@SioxerNikitathere IS a difference. Now it's oversaturated and not a casual occurrence
I work as a data engineer at an AI company, and I know my salary depends on people wanting AI, but my god do i hate all AI creative content. The people using it to try and replicate true mastery of a subject are the kings of mount stupid in the dunning kruger curve.
Its only when you have a modicum of understanding on a subject do you realise how exceptionally bad most LLMs are at everything.
As with the images they generate, the end product is something that could feasibly pass as correct, but when looked at properly is actually an amalgamation generic slop which ends up accurately representing nothing.
Well said! I believe we are all quickly realising how it cannot replace human written/made stuff 100% fully, especially art!
Wow , kudos to you for eloquence 🎶
I think the people _selling_ the books are the opposite of stupid; seems like easy money if the person buying this isn't in the know. It strikes me as an ethical deficit rather than an intellectual one.
@@CoalOres I bet the only people who actually make money on this are those selling courses on "making passive income with AI."
@@mqb3gofjzkko7nzx38 True, that's the real best move here. Guess you could go even further and say the people who convince other companies to invest in their "AI solutions" that are just wrappers for ChatGPT are really milking it the most.
Amazon as the publisher should be made liable for books like these if someone is harmed by them. Their failure to vet what is being published is atrocious
I think both amazon and whoever is making money off of these should be equally liable and prosecuted.
@@artemisDev facts
I'm in Australia, and i have an *extremely* local plant identification guide, it was written by someone in my hometown, covering an area of about 2hrs of travel by car.
There is an entire section on telling apart 19 different plant species, 3 of which are edible. One of those is dandelion, two are varieties of native yam, the others are not edible (though not poisonous). All have overlap in flowers, seed heads, leaves, and/or common names.
He includes the ways that the Indigenous people of the area traditionally used the plants, and has a foreword by one of the Elders talking about working with him on learning the traditional plant names and uses.
If a book talks about Native, Indigenous, and First Peoples usage of plants, without *any* published commentary by a representative of that People, I don't trust it to be factual and respectful, instead of based on stereotypes, assumptions, and the biased historical accounts of colonisers.
A good book references other books, so I always check the books own bibliography, reference page, and dedications to find other books in the same field that have been considered good enough to cite.
Honestly sounds like a badass book.
Ooo lucky I once spent ages trying to id a ginger bloody had to find an Australian flora and then attempt to read the biology speak.
Tbh I still have no idea if I've grown cardamom or native ginger(did id which ginger it would be, if it is ginger) (╥﹏╥)
"The last book you'll ever need but not for the reasons you're hoping for!"
😂 lmao
But even the person who died didn't need the book.
One problem is AI-made books, another problem is Amazon selling worthless (even dangerous) stuff!
I reported an electrical item to my local trading standards and they went after the one seller. All the other identical items on Amazon and Ebay remained untouched
@@dshe8637 they don't care about incorrectly labeled electronical items. even resistors that have incorrect ohms are still listed on Amazon YEARS after it's been proven they are incorrect. Amazon is the flee market we though Ebay is.
Sold ON Amazon, not sold BY Amazon. Amazon bans tens of thousands of seller accounts a year and sometimes just can't keep up. I bought a contraband set of brass knuckles hiding in plain sight listed as a "paperweight."
@@samsonsoturian6013They run a business. Maybe if they can’t keep up, something is wrong with how they go about running said business? Maybe?!
It’s not some law of Nature that they have to keep accepting new sellers willy-nilly at a rate they can’t keep up. It’s a self-inflicted problem, driven by corporate greed.
What you said sounds a bit like you’re defending them - and that’s uncalled for in this case. What you imply is that say if McDonalds was opening new stores faster than they could properly train the employees for, the resulting food safety violations would be… our fault for eating out too much?!
It’s Darwinism. The more ‘would be foragers’ that are now gone and dust the better. All hail Amazon.
I always suggest that people borrow books from the library whenever they can, sort of try-before-you-buy. Good books (vital for foraging) are expensive, so borrowing them first gives you a chance to see if it really suits you - area and locality, climate etc. Also gives you the chance to find out which authors you like - you're more likely to actually read and use a book if you like it. Libraries will order books in for you. Use your local bookshops, order secondhand online too, and charity shops. In my experience, older books are often more useful and better written than a lot of the modern more lightweight ones. I'm a big fan of John Wright (River Cottage) - he really knows his stuff and writes with huge knowledge, experience with a touch of humour.
Library really are critically underutilised as a resource for knowledge
Internet archive also helps with 'try before you buy'. I found a lot of good books about color theory thanks to it.
I am SO TIRED of having ai shoved into my face in every single corner of the internet that has given me even a second of joy, I can’t even click on a crochet pattern because the are ai generating that too, everyone is getting at best scammed and at worse, killed, and companies do nothing to stop all the slop that keeps popping up, I hate it
I don't forage for edible plants, but I still found this interesting and entertaining. As a couple comments mentioned, this ended up being a field guide on how to spot AI slop masquerading as real useful writing.
I just finished searching Amazon for books in my field of interest to see if I could spot any. Once you know what to look for, it's not difficult to find some very questionable knitting/crochet instruction books.
I recently watched a video on AI crochet patterns for sale. AI scammers are really everywhere.
The 'ultimate' abridged version: Don't eat anything if it's not safe and always forage ethically and sustainably. The End.
PS thanks for the 20 quid and good luck!.😂
When you showed the page of book recommendations, my eye wandered over to my bookshelf that holds both Food For Free by Richard Mabey and Mushrooms by Roger Phillips. The Mushrooms book is so detailed (describing spore drop when a cap is left on a sheet of paper overnight), that it sensibly scared me into thinking more carefully about foraging fungi, when I really know too little - and I use it as merely help for identifying things I see, rather than actually foraging any of them, because I really need for in-person training before I attempt that.
Both the Phillips and Mabey books are fabulous, and in my collection.
Another particular favourite is The Geography of the Flowering Plants by Ronald Good, dating from the 1940's but revised and republished until the 1970's: though that's for a special reason - my mother did the plant illustrations. She was an art student and received five shillings a time.
These days, the illustrator would receive almost as much credit as the author, but she gets just a brief mention in the introduction.
Its kinda ironic how both foraging skills and detecting generative AI are both skills that can only be cultivated with experience and not necessarily taught.
This actually might be your most important video to date. You are likely saving some lives here with this crucial information. Your channel just keeps getting better and better. Thank you, Mr. Shrimp!
Just to add to the intrigue, the brown book seems to be a direct copy of another similar book called the Foragers Guide to Wild Food by Nicole Apelian. I have no idea if the Apelian book is 'real' at all in terms of its content, but it's interesting that this is a direct rip off of another book, presumably designed to pick up an inattentive audience that has seen there is a high-selling brown book about foraging with pictures on the front cover, but can't remember what it is called or the author's name.
There’s an article called “Here Lies the Internet, Murdered by Generative AI” where the author discovers that there are a bunch of useless AI-generated “workbooks” based on his books:
“What, exactly, are these ‘workbooks’ for my book? AI pollution. Synthetic trash heaps floating in the online ocean. The authors aren’t real people, some asshole just fed the manuscript into an AI and didn’t check when it spit out nonsensical summaries. But it doesn’t matter, does it? A poor sod will click on the $9.99 purchase one day, and that’s all that’s needed for this scam to be profitable since the process is now entirely automatable and costs only a few cents. Pretty much all published authors are affected by similar scams, or will be soon.”
I have a copy of the Apelian book. It's called The Forager's Guide to Wild Foods. It is specific in context to North America. The background is Brown hexagons containing illustrations of plants. Apelian's book has a glossary of terms and goes over toxic lookalikes. There is a second book in the series that expands and improves upon the first, as well as another on medicinal plants of North America, similarly concise with direct instructions on application and use.
ChatGPT loves its preachy reminders about "be sure to consult multiple sources and practice (topic) ethically and sustainably" at the end of every single output. The people who make these chatbots are complicit in any harm they've caused, no matter how many cover-our-ass warnings they force the AI to add
maybe im biased as a computer science kid. but I don't think "the people who make these chatbots" is a productive group of people to blame. These kinds of things get invented in college as experiments, then some asshat sells them and starts scaling up unsustainably. The technology behind chatgpt is from 20 years ago. Each of these Amazon con artist books took more electrical energy to produce than I will use in my entire lifetime, it is not possible without corporations willing to shovel money at AI.
No. Idiots who treat the output of a chatbot as meaningful are at fault. We've been warned repeatedly that the output is fiction. That is the nature of the tool. It is your fault if you choose to believe it anyway, and also your fault if you recklessly present it to someone else as truth and they believe it and get poisoned.
That is like saying a knife maker is complicit in all stabbings. Nonsensical.
@@UseZapCannon maybe im biased as a computer science kid. But I dont think "the people who make these chatbots" is a productive group to blame. These kind of things get invented in college as experiments, then some jerk comes in to sell them and scale up unsustainably. The algorithms behind ChatGPT are 20 years old, it's just that now we have enough companies willing to shovel obscene amounts of money into hardware so it can run fast enough to produce this con artist slop on Amazon.
@@NoobsDeSroobsNot in stabbings, but in accidents caused by knife malfunctions.
That deer with 3+1 legs. lol
HAHAAhahaha w ait what ? look again!
N hohoho n, no there's one at each end(!?) and two in the middle
just like a real deer! Toe to Tip. 100% a deer if ever _I_ saw one!
you are SO right. that deer legs are weirdest thing ever.
I wonder what sort of gait it has. A kind of hopping waltz?
Pfft, I just noticed that. 😂
Give me timestamp please
If you look at the page numbers at the bottom, that's one of the very default templates in Microsoft Office, so a theory could be they were generated, pasted into word, using it's default boring template, uploaded to the book program, and gets printed from there. Maybe even as part of a "get rick quick scheme" (since I've seen places advertising such schemes as 'courses')
I noticed that too! Same with the index page which is the default and most common used in Office.
The outlining seems weird too. New alineas only having maybe two sentences on one page and then go on on the other page where you have to turn the page. Its a very no no in layout of information books. Just easy copy paste with minimal effort.
If anyone is gonna take anything from this video, I hope it is "support your local bookshop". And if I may add, join your local foraging groups. They are everywhere. Mushroom hunting classes, wilderness education centres, indigenous seed sharing programs, etc. Talking to real people that live close by is always the best best to learn about the real plants that grow close by.
This! I feel much more confident about plants and mushrooms that someone has pointed out to me at one point and especially as a beginner it's good if you can ask someone if you aren't quite sure you identified a specimen correctly.
or just stick to buying food from a shop like a normal person
@@leojohn1615 Where is the fun in that?
The publishers of books like this should be put to prison.
and the sellers (Amazon) too!
I sometimes get ads on TH-cam featuring young people who supposedly became millionaires very quickly by generating books like this for sale on Amazon. Of course, you just need to click "here" and pay for a seminar that will teach you how to do the same.
As should be the inventors of the technology behind it.
@@SheepWaveMeByeByeno they shouldn’t. The tech itself isn’t the problem, it’s the people misusing it
First I saw Louis Rossman's video on the bought-on-Amazon fuses that could harm or kill you (fuses rated for 2 amps that took more than 10 amps to blow, if I'm remembering correctly) and now these books. Caveat Emptor (did I spell that correctly?) is as important as ever.
Yikes! A scam that literally could kill someone!
Then there are the radioactive jewelry products.
@@funguy398 They are everlasting fuses - the only ones you will ever need...
Prime Day seems to give bigger sales on knockoff lever type wire connectors than on genuine Wago Lever-Nuts.
Not to discount what you said but fuses, even from reputable manufacturers, don't always blow at their rated amperage. Instead, the trip point is a function of amperage and time; a fuse will take longer to trip at low over-current than at high over-current; the curves can be found in the fuse's datasheet. For example, a Bel Fuse 3AB/3ABP rated 20A can withstand 20A indefinitely and time to blow is, on average, 10s at 30A, 2s at 40A, .96s at 60A, and 0.25s at 100A. (The rated current also varies with temperature with the nominal value being at 25°C.) In addition, there is also a sizeable difference in time-to-trip between fuses with the same nominal rating/model. IIRC Dave Jones (EEVblog) did a video on this.
The kind of TH-camr that exposes a scam, goes to a bookstore to get footage, and ends up buying a flower guide because it just looked to good not to? Instant sub
This is crazy. I can understand how people might try to fake something popular but foraging books..maybe I underestimate how popular foraging is but this just seems as an odd niche to fake. Also surprised how people are not afraid to cause harm to someone doing things like this!!!
It's just about turning a quick profit to them. The dead can't return your book for a refund
@@mrcephalopod sure but I mean usually quick cash grabs target popular things. That is why I am surprised they fake foraging books.
Maybe they want to cause harm.
i doubt it's that they generate for foraging specifically and more that it is so easy to do it for any subject that there are some for every hobby by the same people
I bought a math book on Congruences (an esoteric Math topic) and it followed a very similar pattern. I was completely confused as to why anyone would write something like that. After this video I understand
Shrimp is bugs,
But sometimes,
Shrimp is atomiks
...and sometimes shrimp is seafood!
Insects are crustaceans...
Regarding which book to buy.
I would like to add an option for those who cannot afford to buy books.
Local libraries tend to be a very good place for guides on local plants and wildlife, and library staff know their stuff too. Visit your local libraries and see what they have to offer. The more members those libraries have and the more books they loan out, the more funding they receive. Also be aware that (I believe) all libraries in the UK have scrapped late fee charges if you miss your return date on your book, meaning that there's no chance of being out of pocket at all even if you're a bit forgetful or life gets the better of you.
Libraries are completely free and if we want to keep them around, we need to keep frequenting them.
Many libraries also have free seed sharing if you want to do a bit of gardening too.
I did some digging and unsurprisingly I found both book on amazon but under a different name/author. I assume thats to get around detections for a while until its taken down again just so they can make as much money as possible
I got a chuckle out of the stretched deer with three left legs and one right leg at around 16:01.
I paused to read the text and Ohhhh my *god*
The Fox and Raccoon on the next double page are also really off
Between “Wild foods you can forage from the wild” and bears are a forageable food, this made me cackle madly in my empty home. 👍
I loved the 2:50 "the next book is called... *Breathe in* the foragers guide..."
I was def expecting you to shout
bad enough there are tons of websites with this bad info but physically printing them makes me physically sick! now there's actual garbage and waste and packaging and shipping and logistics like... exponentially worse in my opinion
When you have an essay, which is definitely due at midnight, and you really need to hit the word count so that your essay on foraging, which again is due at midnight, gets a passing score.
Edit: I thought I had the same book (1:24 ) but mine is by Nicole Apelian PhD and includes maps and pictures. The cover of the book you bought is a knock off. I got mine in a local used book store. Thank you for educating us with these important insights.
I was worried for a sec watching this video thinking I'd made a bad purchase. Glad I have the right book!
Crazy how a quick search for "ultimate foraging" immediately revealed a dozen or so books like this. No quality control whatsoever on Amazon publishing.
Is this the return of the hemlock water dropwort channel?
I cannot believe Rowan Finch never brought up, not even once, the issue of ethical foraging, I don't think this fella is a trustworthy worthy person.
This also brings me back to Folding Ideas video on the Contrepreneurs, the sad part is, at least in that grift, an unknown ghost writer was getting paid a bit, here there is not even that.
What ethical issue is there other than safety?
@@jaxbayne Wouldn't trespassing count as an ethical issue. Trespassing onto someone's estate/property; no matter where it is, in regards to foraging; could be tantamount to theft and trespassing charges combined.
Imagine unironically bringing up Folding Ideas as any sort of authority. The absolute shame
@@bigboydancannon4325 Was it Folding Ideas who sent pictures of his kid to a known paedophile to 'cheer them up' or am I (hopefully) horribly confusing him with someone else?
@@bigboydancannon4325 What's that guy's deal?
Atomic Shrimp's long lost cousin, Nutritional Bear
Those fake foraging book are the stuff of nightmares. Just go to a actual book store or charity shop. I bought a book called "the campfire cookbook" i thought it would just be a recipe book, but i was impressed with the details they added before you even get to the recipes.
"Setting up camp"
"essential equipment"
"what do do if you become lost or separated"
"Only eat what you can safely identify when foraging"
And i still have that book
these books continuously restating phrases makes me feel like I'm a dementia patient who doesn't realize I'm reading the same page over and over
i love the dry way you skewer the ai text 🤣 your videos are always amazing Shrimp, thank you for making them
And I thought it was impossible to have too many descriptions about dandelions, nettles and chickweed
84 descriptions of dandelion and none of burdock, my search continues
Not of the concerns of ethical foraging practices, though! I wish there had been more on this topic! 😂
LOL!
@@Terrorkittens yes, I too thought it could have explained ethical foraging practices a few more times
The video by dan olsen [folding ideas] about contrapraneurs is an excellent corollary for this video as you get to see how this scam is perpretrated. Its wild to see these types of books end up on the channel of someone who looks just like Olsen
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Stuff made by AI need to be labeled as such. Stuff made with primarily AI assets need to be labeled as such. We need it explicitly identifiable. Even putting the ethics (or lack thereof) of using AI aside, people have the right to know if whatever they're seeing was created by a person or not.
This really serves as a field guide to scam books on amazon. Went searching in my field of expertise (russian language) and with surprisingly little scrolling found an introduction to russian bearing all the hallmarks of an AI book, down to the pattern of triple adjectives and all that.
In case no one else comments, to clear up the book printings; Amazon have a sort of self-publishing system where they'll print books for you as long as they get a cut of the profits.
It's pretty good for witers without many starting funds and also apparantly, scammers.
I'd know this as I was interested in publishing my own novels/poems with it and hopefully making a little money between breaks at college. Unfortunately I never quite figured it out.
Hopefully very little people fall for these scams and Amazon cracks down on them a little more than they appear to be doing currently..
4:50 from a former amazon employee- amazon prints some of its own books in-house adjacent to their FCs. I worked stow and it was always an easy night if I got stationed on the first floor adjacent to the printers... very easy to hit your rate quota when you're just stowing books. If you were good/lucky in a night you could do 2000 "small" items to meet your quota, and after that nobody complained about your performance as long as you kept your takt time (average time between stows) to like 5 minutes max. And these look very much like the sort of flimsy, low-res books we were stowing, if indeed one wishes to call them books.
Don't get me started on all the AI generated "coloring books" either
the first book was definitely just a document in word, the page markers at the bottom are a built-in style setting in word
Yeah, I was wondering where I'd seen that page marker before.
Even looks like its in A4
personally already aware of these but watching and commenting to boost bc i want as many people to know about this as possible. esp bc i feel like foraging is sort of popular rn with some of the tiktok/reels foragers posting about it. they post awareness of these books too but not everyone sees every post so
I used one of your previous videos to advise on field guide and plant identifying books to get someone as a wedding present (from a second hand bookshop). They were well received and I'm glad I didn't get stung by one of these scams. Keep up the good work!
Mike is now an expert on safe and ethical foraging.😂 Thanks for letting me know that this kind of books exist. I had no idea about that.
God I fucking hate ai slop , it's not enough that googling anything brings up on endless articles of the same repetitive ai written articles that are useless and repeats useless babble for the entire "article" while throwing ads constantly at you but now the parasites are selling books made with this slop ?? I'm surprised that there isn't a full page ad every 3 pages in these "books".
For anyone interested in these things please buy books from authors who are confirmed botanists, pharmacists , doctors etc.
A family was poisoned after following one of these ai foreging books that they thought was real.
I never cared about foraging or fake books, but Atomic Shrimp vids are just so calming to watch and listen to.. Thank you for your work!
Amazon employee here. Amazon can print books one-at-a-time for any author, so these books don't even exist until you buy them, at which point they go through a process called POD, or Print On Demand.
Do you ever know you are manufacturing a scam? If so, is it possible to alert superiors or is that not allowed?
@@soundspark That's a good question - so what would happen is that IF it gets reported to customer services (and it's usually a FAT IF because most sellers say dumb shit like "Email US for support :)" to delay this, but if there's a single report of something off, the Customer Services rep can immediately take it off of the website while it's investigated, and to be fair it very often is investigated quite fast.. Amazon isn't the best but they do answer those quickly because bad rep is bad
@@kevinh5212 Can I give you the listing number(s) of a fake product that is an electrocution hazard? I reported the issue, and my review was removed.
A few listings:
B0868N3JS4
B09GW642F1
B0CY2C4GNF
B0D5MD5WG1
B0CZ98WZ4N
Amazon customer and one-man watchdog here. Amazon's reporting method for problematic product listings is so deeply-buried and obfuscated that it might as well not exist. It is unclear whether 'report a problem' goes to the seller, or to Amazon, or just disappears into the ether, and on the occasions when I have tried live chat to report a scam, the Amazon employees I communicate with typically just argue that it isn't.
@AtomicShrimp That's a very valid point - typically these go through to CS who then have to escalate. I'm gonna be honest with you, when Andy Jassy took over he laid off a lot of them who worked primarily in India (Hyderabad is the most common city).
This left them with a skeleton crew who no longer have time to deep-dive these issues, and I think that it shows. They have no bandwidth to do anything anymore because Amazon is still convinced AI will be coming soon
That book on Mediterranean flowers looks absolutely exquisite, Mike. I'll never go to the Med (the heat would literally kill me), but I might have to get a copy of that beautiful book. Food For Free - I've had a copy of that for as long as I can remember - a rather battered hardback, with the odd flower or two pressed in it. I have that more modern edition, too. It's a fun, helpful, and useful book, from where I found out what the word 'Bletted' meant, how to make an edible Nut Cutlet, and how to make incredible booze with Beech leaves.
Those two from Amazon, though... Wow. What a waste of paper.
Good find of that Larousse flower guide. It's a superb book. Great illustrations, tons of information, and it's easy to find the flower you are interested in - simply grouping flowers by colour, and having that colour on the top of the page, so if it's a yellow flower, flick through until you get to the pages with the yellow tops, and search from there.
In the same style (I think it's a series) there are books too with flowers of the Alps and of other regions. My mother had several of them in her bookcase. Probably you can find a nice book on 'flowers of the British isles' or something like that in a second-hand bookstore.
As someone very near to the region (continental croatia), believe me, mediterranean climate is great. When you go inland is when you start to melt.
@@manfredrichtoften8848 - Sadly, I have a hereditary genetic condition which affects my body temperature regulation - my mother and grandmother both suffered from it. I don't tan, either - I just blister, and it makes no difference whatsoever putting sun screen on. I have been sunburnt cycling to work at six in the morning in the summer months. I just cover up and wait for autumn. I have dreaded and hated summer all my life. What you might perceive as 'warm', I feel as very hot - and if I get hot, it takes several hours to cool down again. There are photos of me, at the seaside, on a family holiday - but I would have been out, uncovered for no more than about 20 minutes, if that.
I had tests for the condition as a child, and as a teenager - it has got worse as I have got older. I'd love to go abroad; I'm fascinated by history, and would loved to have gone to Greece, or Turkey (to see the ruins of Troy), but there's little point, as I'd spend most of the time in my hotel room, trying not to die of heat exhaustion.
I'm an old man now, and I'm quite happy to look at beautiful stuff in books.
This is why I’m against AI thoroughly. Not only is there the threat of replacing humans, but the shit the AI makes up on the spot can actually be dangerous. Another great example is gemini telling people to put glue on their pizza
I hate AI as well but at the moment it's like a 6th grader trying to write an essay to word count. Sadly AI will get better in copying good writing and that's very scary
Repetition is one of the biggest AI red flags.
They also often read like they've been translated strangely from Chinese.
“The stink of GPT” is a beautiful phrase that I will be using in the future. Thank you, kind stranger.
Thank you!!! I love how you do your videos. I clicked because I have a picture of my child using their cell phone while looking at a mushroom. I am sharing your video. They are smart so the false book will likely be obvious to them, but your recommendations on using books founded on Geographic Specificity and to not use apps (but field guides instead) are very helpful and make the video worth sharing to them. And, who knows, we may have another Atomic Shrimp fan in the family!
Interesting note you had on the drawings. For the same reason in archaeology field drawings are common practice alongside site photography
For the US, I recommend David Aurora's "Mushrooms Demystified" and "All the Rain Promises and More" for would-be mushroom foragers. Even if you never end up foraging, the books are well written and entertaining. I would also recommend seeing if there are any mycology groups in your area who are open to help you learn before you start harvesting.
If there is one thing I know about foraging bears it's that you have to cook the meat properly. Bears carry a parasite that can make you very unwell.
Not that I was even considering foraging but your video is a public service highlighting AI generated books in general, thanks!
I was one of the many artists who voiced against advancing AI, especially AI art since it’s such a lucrative business model and it’s killing actual artists who rely on commissions. I was shut down by many because they think there’s nothing wrong with it, and that us artists should be replaced, just like what happened during the industrial revolution. They didn’t care about the soul of the artwork and think artists are charging too much compared to AI generated stuff.
Lo and behold, where has that mindset taken us to? Every time, everywhere I look, AI leave a trail of mess behind them.