I like that you state the most tense part of the game is keeping from being forced to do very little gameplay when accused or discovered, and also that the enjoyment of a game should fall more on the game's nature rather than group interaction.
All of your reasons make sense. I have similar feelings with old favorites. My tastes change over the years, and especially as a content creator it's hard to get all the games I used to love played. Which makes calling games favorites feel weird too, if we don't play them anymore! But those memories are still favorites.
oh hey there! Great to see ya here ambierona! It's really hard to get even a fraction of my games played consistently, uugh why do board games take so long!!! There's this thing I've been thinking of lately of 'best board game memories' vs. 'most want to play again' -Ashton
@@Shelfside Yeah, the 'best board game memories' and 'most want to play again' are definitely different! So a "favorite" game doesn't necessarily fit both categories.
The points you raise are absolutely valid. However I enjoy playing BSG so much. We have a fixed group of five people, that know the rules and tactics and all watched the show. That beeing said there can be games that are not super interesting, e.g. when the humans get crushed hard just by bad luck without cylons even doing much. With the group beeing very experienced with the game it is also true that it is very hard to do something as an unrevealed cylon without getting caught which often diminishes the social deduction part of the game. Ultimately it is probably more fun to be human because of the crisis management and optimizing turns part.
Back in the day I used to play it every week in a board game club I used to go to. While yes, usually Cylons would win, over time we learned to give them a hard time as humans. You have to check all the cards in a skill check, you never give an executive order to someone that will be going right after you, you scout early and often, you race through your jumps to make sure Cylons don't get too much leeway and so on and so on. It is possible to win as humans and the more effort you put in it gets even easier. Personally I found that even if you get revealed early as a Cylon you can still enjoy messing with the other players, although yeah, your role gets way more passive unfortunately. I really enjoyed the game back when I was able to play it regularly. It was very nice and thematic, captured the spirit of the show pretty well! Maybe one day I'll be able to play it more...
This was almost the only game we played 2010-2014. Then Walking Dead happened and it was much easier to play Dead of Winter over BSG. I played a BSG game with all new players right before the pandemic and it was a little slow... I still play the workarounds we did to address BSG's issues. We found humans usually lost by losing morale so we swapped in crisis cards from Exodus and Daybreak that targeted food and damaged Galactica more. We also had better agendas for Cylons that offered more freedom and made 6-7 players more fun. And we added house rules for characters to address balance issues. I still love the game, personally, but it is hard to get new players to fall in love with it.
iirc the cylons in our game usually just ended up going after whatever resources happened to be lowest game to game. I feel like humans lost in a variety of ways with the rarest being from food. -Daniel
I had my two gaming buddies over. They'd played before once, I've played a out 25ish times. Had 2 new to 'not Monopoly' board games. Explained the game and that humans almost always lose regardless. One of the new guys drew the "you are a cylon card" but decided he didn't want to be one so played full human goals the entire time.
I totally understand where you're coming from. I used to be a boardgame reviewer on a French channel; I had to sell some games (although I really liked them) just because I needed some space for the potential newcomers that were most of the time a shot in the dark. I couldn't play my favorite games as much as I want, or rediscover forgotten classics from before. And I think that is the most fun part about having quit the media world. I get to play whatever I want, whenever I want. I don't care to please an audience or to cover the last new game; I am not in a hurry to play the next one on my shelf. I can just sit down, play a game as much as I want, then get to one of my favs of all time, then go to a new game I just got... or not. I believe it's a shame though that you sold it. But you surely have played it much more than I did. And your reasons are understandable. I just hope that you still will hold some love for it and stay true and authentic to your taste without being tainted by the hype train or the FOMO. Love your content btw! Cheers friend.
hey thank you for this! Yeah playing games in a media sense really does change your perspective on 'enjoyment'. I was actually thinking the other day how I slightly regret selling Chaos in the old world, its not really so much for space, but more so out of time. As of now, I still don't think I would routinely set aside the time for BSG to justify owning it, but yeah I love the theme so much I will return one day!! Cheers man! -Ashton
It's like finding out that _Paddington 2_ is the greatest movie of all time and you weren't in the meeting where this was decided. Also, blame Gymnopedie. 🤣
Who you play a game with is far more important then the game it self. As you pointed out this game requires several people with equal skills in a certain area. Games like this are just getting the the table less and less. Although you had incredible moments with the game, it was 25% at best. 50% was good and the last 25% was ugly. And there is a point where the $$$ value of a game you just do not play is too good to ignore. Send it to someone who wants to play it rather than letting it rot on the shelf. Been there done that.
Man I feel this so hard. BSG was the first board game I bought, my most played game, and still my favourite. Will I bring it out in 2021 and onwards though? Unlikely. When you said '5' I instantly knew that was player count, because it's really the only player count for the game. While you don't need to have seen the show to get into it, it REALLY helps to explain stuff if they know the show. I've taught this to non-gamers and their 60+ year old parents who loved it and got into board gaming because of it, but now it sits on my shelf like a sad memento that I'm not sure I'll ever get to the table again.
BSG lovers unite! A memento is what the game really is, I just had to let go of it, but lots of hope for unfathomable! Hopefully that game is more flexible with player count too -Ashton
I sold my base game and expansions a few years ago after the price had gone up. My first BSG game was perfect with a great teacher, a fantastic group new to the game, and a human win with the perfect “Stand Up” die roll to end it. I got the game from this and played it multiple times, but it never re-captured that original magic. A pattern of the game running long, feeling long and then us rushing the second half of the game emerged and took the wind out of our sails. I sold it promptly after one such session and never looked back.
I've heard about this a lot! I actually haven't gotten the chance to play it, and I have heard a lot of mixed reviews when researching a couple years ago. Hopefully I get the chance to try it once -Ashton
@@Shelfside Dark Moon is great. Dark Moon plays in about an hour. The crisis (aka tasks) are interesting because you are doing dice rolling behind a shield rather than submitting cards. The player count is more flexible in that it plays up to 7 (and works well with 5, 6 or 7). There's only one expansion...and it's good but not required. And the outcomes are more balanced (and also easy to add variants to balance once your group gets better). My group loves DM because we could play 2-3 times in the same amount of time you can play BSG once. The game preserves much of the tension and paranoia that BSG gives but streamlines a lot of the mechanics. Your first couple games will be clunky, especially if no one in the group has played before, but the game will continue to get better with each play. Most of the complaints I hear about DM (especially from BSG players) is the game is too "random" because of the dice...but it's not. I promise. This is from someone who's played 80+ times. Some of my best board game experiences have come from DM games.
PoK just came in for us yesterday. Hopefully can get the review out for ya guys soon. I'm pretty sure that with PoK, TI4 will be at my #1 for a while :) -Ashton
I'm bordering on selling Root at this point. It's a pain to teach, it runs long, and it's a game that I think would be better from being played repeatedly rather than very occasionally. I've got all the expansion stuff but we've only got it to the table half a dozen times.
Now I can enjoy your videos without having my nose rubbed in it by BSG making a cameo in every second video. I don’t have to watch another one of your videos and say to myself…”there goes the man who is living the dream”! That being said, I’m very interested in FFG’s UNFATHOMABLE in September 2021. It’s apparently BSG Next Gen’. Although I prefer BSG’s IP, UNFATHOMABLE (Arkham Horror universe) should scratch the itch.
ahaha, the copies have had their time on my shelf for sure. We're super hyped for Battlestar Atlantica in fall! Review will be coming out for that one :D -Ashton
I sold my copy of BSG with all the expansions to a friend back before the price skyrocketed. It just stopped getting played, largely down to the long (and highly variable!) playtime and the rigid player count.
"You did what?!?!" In all seriousness, I can't fault your reasoning. Even though I love my memories of playing the game, I cannot be sure that my next play would hold up to them. That and the time commitment are the main reasons I've never bought it when I've seen it for sale. I've always enjoyed seeing it in the background in your videos though. End of an era.
hey thanks for the feedback man! The game just excels at giving you such epic moments that I will never forget. It is a very good looking box that I will miss though -Ashton
Definitely yep. How fast, no idea to tell, but it's reaching that point where after playing a game just once, I feel pretty comfortable throwing it out if I have a sour first impression -Ashton
You want two good social deduction games? Ankh Morpork and OathBreaker. Then again you detested Rising Sun, so not sure I can trust you with these hot tips!
we have that on our radar too! I'm trying not to raise my expectations too high though. Luckily the theme is much easier for newcomers to get into -Ashton
@@Shelfside and as much as I love BSG, the art in Human Punishment is gorgeous. I'm hoping it fixed some of the problems in the video. Maybe it's time to break out Dark Moon?
@@Shelfside related aside: I tried Stationfall on TTS last night and it was pretty fun. Not sure if I'm going to back it, but it's a maybe. Think Among Us The Board Game.
First of all, it's fine you sold and think there are better games to play. I started playing on Vassal with a group that has close to 2k games recorded. The winrate is pretty much 42/58% human/cylon winrate. For 6 players I think Cylon Leader is fine. I'm so happy I picked up the base game with all expansions for 80€ a couple of years back (lucky I know).
take a look at Human Punishment: The Beggining. it looked to me like a game which evolves BSG kind of social deduction in clever and not convoluted ways. ofc it will take a half a year until KS is delivered to people and presumably half a year more to retail, it just might be able to scratch same itch without BSG drawbacks
But did you sell it to a friend that lives close by or does any of your friends own it? Then IMO you really didn't get rid of if you still have access to it and can play it.
I did not sell it to a friend that lives close by. One of my friends who lives in another city owns a copy, but I see him about once a year, often not for BSG. So basically my access to BSG has been cut off -Ashton
@@Shelfside appreciate the response! I ask because sometimes I get rid of games I enjoy a lot, but sell to friends so I can still play it. So you loving BSG so much and selling it and maybe not playing it ever again is even more heartbreaking :(
Dang, feel ya there. Looking back, still definitely wouldn't have gotten in a game of BSG anytime recently, there's just too much blocking the commitment. But Unfathomable, we'll probably get another game of that going here -Ashton
@@Shelfside I'm actually going to pick up Unfathomable this week if my local store has is... my folks and Sister/BiL all loved BSG, so it will be a perfect game to try out over the holidays. Because nothing brings people together more than Murder and Betrayal LOL
I have BSG and dawn expansion (not sure about the traslation) sitting in my shelf unplayed, its been over a year and I'm thinking I might never really play it because nobody knows the theme, and it's not well suited for a full new group
ugh, yeah the BSG theme just did not age well for some reason. It's always weird to point to people that the cylons look like the robots that can invade the ship, but ALSO be perfect dressed up as humans -Ashton
But it makes totally sense to sell it, because chances are high they do a new version in the next years maybe even with Kickstarter, which would lower the value of your copy.
IP Hell is unpredictable, without relaunching the series the general consumer market probably doesn't care much for the boardgame either so I don't see that happening soon.
@@Pittigpiertje therefore I was speculating on Kickstarter, because this way you can still produce boardgames without much risk with a small but dedicated community. IP can be tough, but I think that FFG should still have the license. I doubt they just have one for the first 10 years or so...but is possible.
Reminds me of playing Age of Empires 1. Had a ton of fun with it as a hit, but after the nostalgia hit it just has some serious flaws and isn't good now.
So sad. I would love to hear what other games you have tried in your search for the killer. I saw dead of winter crashed. Resistance? Shadows over camelot? A bunch of newer stuff I am sure have come out.
Shadows over camelot was not good for us lmao. I recall it being an unbalanced mess, and one time out of pity when I was the traitor I purposely tried to help the good guys win and I still ended up winning haha. I didn't even realize that if the traitor goes the whole game not being found two of the win-con swords flip over. I have a sneaking suspicion that most of these social deduction games are balanced around groups with bad liars, because all too frequently traitors end up feeling way too strong. That or our group is just filled with a bunch of psychopaths lol -Daniel
@@Shelfside kewl. Ive had great games of it but game is tough for loyal heroes, an exposed traitor is almost worse than hidden. As likely will drown and not even finished game.
The real question is: are there people who have no idea about BSG? BTW, you can tell a man of character when the have Eric's Saltie Gymnopedie as a farewell theme.
There are unfortunately a lot of people that I know of that have never even hear of BSG. Such an unfortunate occurrence. I guess it doesn't help that there's no book for it :( -Ashton
Might sell traitor mechanic. It's just a super unbalanced social deduction game. Allows for a lot of players but its way too easy for the traitors to win and most of the time will cut a game short in the first 5 or 10 minutes. Anyone want it XD
Never had a good time with it. Every game I ever played, the cylon player won with no effort whatsoever. Just back to back to back to back fights that refused to ever let up for a second and the humans basically has no chance from the start. Unfathomable is a far superior game that's way more balanced while still keeping the tension up.
This is way late. But, I think what ruined BSG for you was the expansion bloat. Think on your review of Rise of Ix. Did the expansions help BSG? Or did it just make the game more inaccessible, much longer and more random? Try the base game again. My group is always looking for a fifth as well!
I actually think the expansions, with their modularity, helped BSG for me. BSG isn't a euro, rather its a sprawling, epic social deduction game, where having more stuff actually gives more points to deduce around. While I didn't use the pegasus end game board, or the cylon characters, stuff like the additional humans, cylon fleet, and just more encounter cards helped the experience. One of the main reasons why I consider the Exodus expansion a must buy for BSG, is that it fixes the random nature of cylon fleet spawns, changing the system from sudden drops of ships, to an ongoing tension that stays with you throughout the game. Cheers! -Ashton
Yeah I'm with Ashton here, the expansions did nothing but help iron out some problems from base while also adding in legitimately cool things for everyone to interact with. Cylon fleet being on its own map is such a good talking point for both humans and cylons. Also, Unfathomable has made BSG completely obsolete in our group for actually being super accessible, being faster, and making player/enemy positioning matter so much more. -Daniel
@@Shelfside thanks for your replies. Though, one last point to make! In my opinion, the base game was much more about conflict between players rather than conflict with enemy units. It was a much tighter experience where the Admiral and President are immensely more powerful in that both titles hold complete control over fuel and food, respectively. This created tension with their decisions as any one decision they made could turn the game into a tail spin. As executions are not possible (and political prowess is not a “I win” card and no Cally), players must fight with one another over control of the ship and the ship’s titles. I’m working on a review of the base game compared with Unfathomable. Hope you check it out when I post it as there is something beautiful in the base game you can’t see unless you remove the expansions. The expansions, in particular, the exodus expansion converts BSG into a cooperative game play experience where you pretend to behave so you can get an executive order. Base game BSG was about setting up your character’s win condition in the event you are activated as Cylon.
@@CarlosHernandez-tn9eb Great points! I wholeheartedly agree that Cally is bonkers broken. The admiral and President in general is a great dynamic that I didn't quite feel in Unfathomable, yet unfathomable's accessibility pushed it over the edge for us. It's been quite some time since I have compared exodus to base game experience iin my head, so that's a great counterpoint! -Ashton
I thought that would be the case, but we just have SOO many games to play, and if something isn't ridiculously tempting to play again, and at this scale, we have to let it go :3 -Ashton
Human lost every time with 5 players too… but is still fun. Olay no sympathizer official rules and will be 40% for hyman and 60% for tosters. Is amazing game…. Is just maybe not your cup of tea
Cylons doesn't win in BSG, it's game who is winning. BSG and this type of games are just Eldritch Horror with a traitor mechanic. So, i do not see a reason to play BSG when you can play EH and will be quicker. AND you can play it with less people or even by yourself.
I disagree with almost everything in this video. 1) Time inefficient? Maybe you are playing with people with analysis paralysis? Our games always run fairly quickly: 4-players, two hours with a ten minute break at the halfway jump point. We don't jibber-jabber or overanalyze, though. We keep it moving and tense, just as the theme would dictate. 2) We taught our preteen sons in a matter of minutes. The first game only took 30 minutes longer than all subsequent games. 3) The whole premise of the BSG universe is constant suffering, hence the constant crisis cards. 4) We have only played 4-player, so can't speak to this. By playing with 4, EVERYONE is co-op until the halfway point. That works way better than possibly having a cylon from the beginning. The sleeper agent mechanic is so well-integrated. 5) We've only had the cylon win twice in ten games. The super-cooperative nature of the humans once the cylon is revealed speaks to the theme. 6) We showed the preteens one 5-minute BSG youtube synopsis of the show to get them into the theme. Capital battles, dogfighting, intrigue, constant misery? You don't even have to watch the whole show to get it. As for the mechanics, they love Among Us and ONU Werewolf, so we knew this would be a shoo-in for them. We put on the soundtrack in the background- those "tribal" drums thumping make it an intense experience every time. We do not own ANY other board game that gives us that video-game-anxiety feel like the pressure in this game does. But to each, their own. RIP your BSG
1) Group dependence tends to rely on which groups play which games, so what works for one group may not work for another. 3) It's about humans vs. robots, which sounds universal, but then you get into the characters and background and without the support of the show, some may just see it as a Terminator ripoff and would probably rather play that instead of the ripoff. 4) Isn't that still relying on an exact player count, which wasn't the designers' intention? 5) Perhaps group-dependent games (like party games), over actual cogent gameplay, is probably why Ashton bailed on this, much like how most veteran gamers bail on Monopoly. 6) Any game that requires a video to teach it may not have the best rulebook (looking at you, Fantasy Flight), and it's also not helpful for anyone impulse buying (when it was available).
@@commandercaptain4664 the video to which I referred was a synopsis of the show, got the board game. For theme, not instructions. The included manual is very well done. Also, terminator ripoff? The original BSG predates terminator.
@@commandercaptain4664 Knowing BSG certainly adds to the game but it's not important at all. The necessary story can be explained in a minute and that's it. Most people who play Arkham haven't read any of the Lovecraft novels either.
All joking aside, this video really upset me. Everything you said hit home, everything you pointed out was a knife stab at my heart. But I agree with every point. And that terrifies me. I don't want to hear the truth, but I have to. I haven't played my copy in years for many of the same concerns. For now, my complete collection stays on my shelf, but this video is going to live rent-free in my head for some time to come.
Yo denis, glad to see ya here! The complete collection is one of the most satisfying things to look at. Even if you don't play it again, it looks so sick as a backdrop But remember, the beauty of BSG is that its highs are SOOOO high that they end up muddying over the lows sometimes. Hopefully you will get another great shot at it -Ashton
@@Shelfside All my best memories of it are from the times with my friends from college back home in Ireland. All my friends knew the game really well, set up and play was super fast. We could get a 5 player game done in about 90 minutes. Since moving to Canada ten years ago, I think I've managed to get it to the table twice, both teaching games, both running long and falling a bit flat. It hurts so much. But I still dream of the day I get a group together and it runs smooth and fun, like in the old days... Maybe we'll meet at some con in the future and play a game together. Great video, Ashton.
@@DenisRyan 90 minutes!!!? Man am I jealous. I have the same thing going on, we used to play this game fairly often in high school, and then when people graduated the BSG just faded from our lives. Let's play together, and remember, I never get dealt the cylon for some reason -Ashton
I unfortunately got to play a few games that lost their magic while at college, and they've definitely muddied a lot of my amazing memories of BSG, being concerned and not playing is totally a good call imo -Daniel
With that said, I agree with the points you make. Bsg is a commitment to play and having to get a bunch of players to get it going is tough. There's also the pure coop you can play where there's no cylons and the humans just have to reach their destination.
The real question is, why didn't you sell it to me?
😂
I sold my yugioh collection to help fund those expansions , glad to see that investment returned dividends in cash hahaha
-Daniel
@Babes & Board Games it was everything! Let's just say the multiplier was pretty good on it :) -Ashton
I like that you state the most tense part of the game is keeping from being forced to do very little gameplay when accused or discovered, and also that the enjoyment of a game should fall more on the game's nature rather than group interaction.
RIP to an era. I'll miss seeing BSG featured prominently in all your stereotype videos.
All of your reasons make sense. I have similar feelings with old favorites. My tastes change over the years, and especially as a content creator it's hard to get all the games I used to love played. Which makes calling games favorites feel weird too, if we don't play them anymore! But those memories are still favorites.
oh hey there! Great to see ya here ambierona! It's really hard to get even a fraction of my games played consistently, uugh why do board games take so long!!! There's this thing I've been thinking of lately of 'best board game memories' vs. 'most want to play again' -Ashton
@@Shelfside Yeah, the 'best board game memories' and 'most want to play again' are definitely different! So a "favorite" game doesn't necessarily fit both categories.
The points you raise are absolutely valid. However I enjoy playing BSG so much. We have a fixed group of five people, that know the rules and tactics and all watched the show. That beeing said there can be games that are not super interesting, e.g. when the humans get crushed hard just by bad luck without cylons even doing much. With the group beeing very experienced with the game it is also true that it is very hard to do something as an unrevealed cylon without getting caught which often diminishes the social deduction part of the game. Ultimately it is probably more fun to be human because of the crisis management and optimizing turns part.
Back in the day I used to play it every week in a board game club I used to go to. While yes, usually Cylons would win, over time we learned to give them a hard time as humans. You have to check all the cards in a skill check, you never give an executive order to someone that will be going right after you, you scout early and often, you race through your jumps to make sure Cylons don't get too much leeway and so on and so on. It is possible to win as humans and the more effort you put in it gets even easier.
Personally I found that even if you get revealed early as a Cylon you can still enjoy messing with the other players, although yeah, your role gets way more passive unfortunately.
I really enjoyed the game back when I was able to play it regularly. It was very nice and thematic, captured the spirit of the show pretty well! Maybe one day I'll be able to play it more...
Yep understand this feeling I still have my copies of Axis and Allies that probably will never get played ever again but love the memories.
This was almost the only game we played 2010-2014. Then Walking Dead happened and it was much easier to play Dead of Winter over BSG. I played a BSG game with all new players right before the pandemic and it was a little slow...
I still play the workarounds we did to address BSG's issues.
We found humans usually lost by losing morale so we swapped in crisis cards from Exodus and Daybreak that targeted food and damaged Galactica more. We also had better agendas for Cylons that offered more freedom and made 6-7 players more fun. And we added house rules for characters to address balance issues.
I still love the game, personally, but it is hard to get new players to fall in love with it.
iirc the cylons in our game usually just ended up going after whatever resources happened to be lowest game to game. I feel like humans lost in a variety of ways with the rarest being from food.
-Daniel
I had my two gaming buddies over. They'd played before once, I've played a out 25ish times. Had 2 new to 'not Monopoly' board games. Explained the game and that humans almost always lose regardless. One of the new guys drew the "you are a cylon card" but decided he didn't want to be one so played full human goals the entire time.
ahaha! I knew I wasn't alone in the cylons always winning! The big question is, did the humans end up winning your game? -Ashton
I totally understand where you're coming from. I used to be a boardgame reviewer on a French channel; I had to sell some games (although I really liked them) just because I needed some space for the potential newcomers that were most of the time a shot in the dark. I couldn't play my favorite games as much as I want, or rediscover forgotten classics from before.
And I think that is the most fun part about having quit the media world. I get to play whatever I want, whenever I want. I don't care to please an audience or to cover the last new game; I am not in a hurry to play the next one on my shelf. I can just sit down, play a game as much as I want, then get to one of my favs of all time, then go to a new game I just got... or not.
I believe it's a shame though that you sold it. But you surely have played it much more than I did. And your reasons are understandable. I just hope that you still will hold some love for it and stay true and authentic to your taste without being tainted by the hype train or the FOMO.
Love your content btw! Cheers friend.
hey thank you for this! Yeah playing games in a media sense really does change your perspective on 'enjoyment'. I was actually thinking the other day how I slightly regret selling Chaos in the old world, its not really so much for space, but more so out of time. As of now, I still don't think I would routinely set aside the time for BSG to justify owning it, but yeah I love the theme so much I will return one day!! Cheers man! -Ashton
@@Shelfside I found a very cheap copy two weeks ago and it made me want to go to the series. And boy, every episode gets more interesting!
@@InVinceIble009 there's some wonky episodes in there, but overall, I loved it! Need to rewatch some of the fight scenes!!! Vipers are awesome -Ashton
Omg the ending legit made me so sad... but I guess that’s growing up - knowing when to let go!
It was quite a rollercoaster of emotions making this vid, I'm sure BSG is in a better place now :) -Ashton
It's like finding out that _Paddington 2_ is the greatest movie of all time and you weren't in the meeting where this was decided.
Also, blame Gymnopedie. 🤣
Who you play a game with is far more important then the game it self. As you pointed out this game requires several people with equal skills in a certain area. Games like this are just getting the the table less and less. Although you had incredible moments with the game, it was 25% at best. 50% was good and the last 25% was ugly. And there is a point where the $$$ value of a game you just do not play is too good to ignore. Send it to someone who wants to play it rather than letting it rot on the shelf. Been there done that.
Man I feel this so hard. BSG was the first board game I bought, my most played game, and still my favourite. Will I bring it out in 2021 and onwards though? Unlikely. When you said '5' I instantly knew that was player count, because it's really the only player count for the game. While you don't need to have seen the show to get into it, it REALLY helps to explain stuff if they know the show. I've taught this to non-gamers and their 60+ year old parents who loved it and got into board gaming because of it, but now it sits on my shelf like a sad memento that I'm not sure I'll ever get to the table again.
BSG lovers unite! A memento is what the game really is, I just had to let go of it, but lots of hope for unfathomable! Hopefully that game is more flexible with player count too -Ashton
I sold my base game and expansions a few years ago after the price had gone up. My first BSG game was perfect with a great teacher, a fantastic group new to the game, and a human win with the perfect “Stand Up” die roll to end it. I got the game from this and played it multiple times, but it never re-captured that original magic. A pattern of the game running long, feeling long and then us rushing the second half of the game emerged and took the wind out of our sails. I sold it promptly after one such session and never looked back.
that pattern sounds exactly like how I predict BSG to be if I play it more times :( Thanks for sharing man! -Ashton
Do you know Dark Moon? It was developped as BSG express, which is a social deduction smewhere between Resistance and BSG.
I've heard about this a lot! I actually haven't gotten the chance to play it, and I have heard a lot of mixed reviews when researching a couple years ago. Hopefully I get the chance to try it once -Ashton
@@Shelfside it's definitely worth a try. It's available for cheap on tabletopia.
@@Shelfside Dark Moon is great. Dark Moon plays in about an hour. The crisis (aka tasks) are interesting because you are doing dice rolling behind a shield rather than submitting cards. The player count is more flexible in that it plays up to 7 (and works well with 5, 6 or 7). There's only one expansion...and it's good but not required. And the outcomes are more balanced (and also easy to add variants to balance once your group gets better). My group loves DM because we could play 2-3 times in the same amount of time you can play BSG once. The game preserves much of the tension and paranoia that BSG gives but streamlines a lot of the mechanics. Your first couple games will be clunky, especially if no one in the group has played before, but the game will continue to get better with each play. Most of the complaints I hear about DM (especially from BSG players) is the game is too "random" because of the dice...but it's not. I promise. This is from someone who's played 80+ times. Some of my best board game experiences have come from DM games.
@@Bigft64 oh man that sounds great! will add it to my wish list then :) -Ashton
Does that mean Twilight Imperium 4 is your new #1 game?
Hope you get to play it with the Prophecy of Kings expansion soon.
PoK just came in for us yesterday. Hopefully can get the review out for ya guys soon. I'm pretty sure that with PoK, TI4 will be at my #1 for a while :) -Ashton
I had a similar experience with Root. Great game that I love that I sold.
Why?
@@dustinvognild8128 My gamer friends all own it mostly. Also I have a few issues with the game mainly with teaching new players.
@@RottenJeeves Understandable. Asymmetrical games, and Root particularly, are especially difficult to teach. Thanks for the reply.
I'm bordering on selling Root at this point. It's a pain to teach, it runs long, and it's a game that I think would be better from being played repeatedly rather than very occasionally. I've got all the expansion stuff but we've only got it to the table half a dozen times.
i feel you
Did you back the kickstart for the rethemed reprint?
one of our friends preordered Unfathomable if that's what you mean mate! Super excited -Ashton
@@Shelfside that's the one.
Now I can enjoy your videos without having my nose rubbed in it by BSG making a cameo in every second video. I don’t have to watch another one of your videos and say to myself…”there goes the man who is living the dream”!
That being said, I’m very interested in FFG’s UNFATHOMABLE in September 2021. It’s apparently BSG Next Gen’. Although I prefer BSG’s IP, UNFATHOMABLE (Arkham Horror universe) should scratch the itch.
ahaha, the copies have had their time on my shelf for sure. We're super hyped for Battlestar Atlantica in fall! Review will be coming out for that one :D -Ashton
can you tell us how much you sold it for?
a good deal more than I acquired it for :D -ashton
Very much looking forward to your review of Unfathomable.
Can't wait! Already reading the gencon playthrough stories and so hyped up. Hurry FFG!!! -Ashton
I sold my copy of BSG with all the expansions to a friend back before the price skyrocketed. It just stopped getting played, largely down to the long (and highly variable!) playtime and the rigid player count.
"You did what?!?!" In all seriousness, I can't fault your reasoning. Even though I love my memories of playing the game, I cannot be sure that my next play would hold up to them. That and the time commitment are the main reasons I've never bought it when I've seen it for sale. I've always enjoyed seeing it in the background in your videos though. End of an era.
hey thanks for the feedback man! The game just excels at giving you such epic moments that I will never forget. It is a very good looking box that I will miss though -Ashton
Does that mean that your turnaround rate will increase (getting rid of old and getting new ones) ?
Definitely yep. How fast, no idea to tell, but it's reaching that point where after playing a game just once, I feel pretty comfortable throwing it out if I have a sour first impression -Ashton
Love that you covered this! Well done.
hey thanks man! I remembered your request in the tier list :) -Ashton
You want two good social deduction games? Ankh Morpork and OathBreaker. Then again you detested Rising Sun, so not sure I can trust you with these hot tips!
Ahaha, don't worry, we will have a balanced rising sun review in the future. Daniel will come and save the day -Ashton
I backed Human Punishment the Beginning because I'm hoping for a similar experience to BSG without so much of what you were criticizing.
we have that on our radar too! I'm trying not to raise my expectations too high though. Luckily the theme is much easier for newcomers to get into -Ashton
@@Shelfside and as much as I love BSG, the art in Human Punishment is gorgeous. I'm hoping it fixed some of the problems in the video. Maybe it's time to break out Dark Moon?
bruh i backed that game cuz of the art lmao
-Daniel
@@Shelfside related aside: I tried Stationfall on TTS last night and it was pretty fun. Not sure if I'm going to back it, but it's a maybe. Think Among Us The Board Game.
@@zangster2k will add it to the list!
First of all, it's fine you sold and think there are better games to play.
I started playing on Vassal with a group that has close to 2k games recorded.
The winrate is pretty much 42/58% human/cylon winrate.
For 6 players I think Cylon Leader is fine.
I'm so happy I picked up the base game with all expansions for 80€ a couple of years back (lucky I know).
Thank you for sharing that winrate! Good to know. That is an insane price, you lucky mate! -Ashton
take a look at Human Punishment: The Beggining. it looked to me like a game which evolves BSG kind of social deduction in clever and not convoluted ways. ofc it will take a half a year until KS is delivered to people and presumably half a year more to retail, it just might be able to scratch same itch without BSG drawbacks
Daniel actually backed it! We're planning on doing a review on it when it comes -Ashton
Now that Unfathomable is available you can buy the new version of Galactica.
indeed, we have a copy in our group! People actually understand the theme!!! Crazy now ahaha. Cheers! -Ashton
From the outside, having yet to play it, it sounds like nemesis is the modern version of BSG
ooooh yeah I've been pretty excited by that guy, hope to try it out eventually. Maybe review one day :) -Ashton
But did you sell it to a friend that lives close by or does any of your friends own it? Then IMO you really didn't get rid of if you still have access to it and can play it.
I did not sell it to a friend that lives close by. One of my friends who lives in another city owns a copy, but I see him about once a year, often not for BSG. So basically my access to BSG has been cut off -Ashton
@@Shelfside appreciate the response! I ask because sometimes I get rid of games I enjoy a lot, but sell to friends so I can still play it. So you loving BSG so much and selling it and maybe not playing it ever again is even more heartbreaking :(
I would have liked to come in with pitchforks asking "How could you" but... yeah... that list, that is why I haven't played mine in 4-5 years.
Dang, feel ya there. Looking back, still definitely wouldn't have gotten in a game of BSG anytime recently, there's just too much blocking the commitment. But Unfathomable, we'll probably get another game of that going here -Ashton
@@Shelfside I'm actually going to pick up Unfathomable this week if my local store has is... my folks and Sister/BiL all loved BSG, so it will be a perfect game to try out over the holidays. Because nothing brings people together more than Murder and Betrayal LOL
@@Atepa09 They ALL loved BSG!??? You lucky lucky person. Nothing like some good family time of backstabbing and hour on hour lying tension -Ashton
I have BSG and dawn expansion (not sure about the traslation) sitting in my shelf unplayed, its been over a year and I'm thinking I might never really play it because nobody knows the theme, and it's not well suited for a full new group
ugh, yeah the BSG theme just did not age well for some reason. It's always weird to point to people that the cylons look like the robots that can invade the ship, but ALSO be perfect dressed up as humans -Ashton
@@Shelfside It's also because, ever since then, there have been games touted as BSG-killers, some of which live up to the moniker.
Still found a shrinkwrapped copy for 10$ so its worth it to me i think.
that is an insane deal. You are one lucky buyer! -Ashton
For new gamers you will teach Avalon/Resistance first... then Bang the dice game and only when those are OK, then you move to BSG....
But it makes totally sense to sell it, because chances are high they do a new version in the next years maybe even with Kickstarter, which would lower the value of your copy.
IP Hell is unpredictable, without relaunching the series the general consumer market probably doesn't care much for the boardgame either so I don't see that happening soon.
@@Pittigpiertje therefore I was speculating on Kickstarter, because this way you can still produce boardgames without much risk with a small but dedicated community.
IP can be tough, but I think that FFG should still have the license. I doubt they just have one for the first 10 years or so...but is possible.
i really have no idea what is going to happen with the IP, and FFG in general. I just don't forsee myself playing it often :( -Ashton
Well FFG are releasing a new game based on bsg, but it's in Lovecraft universe instead!
Reminds me of playing Age of Empires 1. Had a ton of fun with it as a hit, but after the nostalgia hit it just has some serious flaws and isn't good now.
Oh but man, the cheat codes in that game were awesome! AoE w/conquerors still holds up for me though, one of my favorite games of all time -Ashton
Bro you made me sad for you. The end clips killed me.
The real question is: Would you still sell it if it wasn't for the inflated price?
I think so. It's just taking up so much room here :( -Ashton
So sad. I would love to hear what other games you have tried in your search for the killer. I saw dead of winter crashed. Resistance? Shadows over camelot? A bunch of newer stuff I am sure have come out.
Shadows over camelot was not good for us lmao. I recall it being an unbalanced mess, and one time out of pity when I was the traitor I purposely tried to help the good guys win and I still ended up winning haha. I didn't even realize that if the traitor goes the whole game not being found two of the win-con swords flip over.
I have a sneaking suspicion that most of these social deduction games are balanced around groups with bad liars, because all too frequently traitors end up feeling way too strong. That or our group is just filled with a bunch of psychopaths lol
-Daniel
@@Shelfside kewl. Ive had great games of it but game is tough for loyal heroes, an exposed traitor is almost worse than hidden. As likely will drown and not even finished game.
The real question is: are there people who have no idea about BSG? BTW, you can tell a man of character when the have Eric's Saltie Gymnopedie as a farewell theme.
There are unfortunately a lot of people that I know of that have never even hear of BSG. Such an unfortunate occurrence. I guess it doesn't help that there's no book for it :( -Ashton
The end of am Era. Rip 2021
Very legit points. Still like it though. In our group humans win 90% of the games.
dang, I guess the whole cylon win rate is more group dependent than I thought. So say we all, enjoy the games man! -Ashton
@@Shelfside if you dont cooperate in our group you get bringed.
Don't worry, there will be a new themed version soon enough that everyone can afford.
Promise?
@@zangster2k Yep
Wait...are you serious?
@@jasong1610 Yes
WHERE
Recently sold one too, never got it to the table so I used to money to buy war of the ring.
oh man, WoTR is a lot more of a consistent experience! Plus you probably have some cash left over for the WoTR expansions -Ashton
@@Shelfside I wish! It doesn't sell for as much here, got 80€ for it without Expansions (and I had bought it for 35€).
Might sell traitor mechanic. It's just a super unbalanced social deduction game. Allows for a lot of players but its way too easy for the traitors to win and most of the time will cut a game short in the first 5 or 10 minutes. Anyone want it XD
Never had a good time with it. Every game I ever played, the cylon player won with no effort whatsoever. Just back to back to back to back fights that refused to ever let up for a second and the humans basically has no chance from the start.
Unfathomable is a far superior game that's way more balanced while still keeping the tension up.
Yeah I enjoy unfathomable more for its polish and theme, and then Human Punishment The Beginning even more
-Daniel
They...have...a...plan!
This video makes me want to sell my copy of BSG, too.
Problem is, I don't have a copy. Anyone in the comments want to volunteer theirs?
Now I'm interested in getting another copy to sell too, any kind souls out there?
This is way late. But, I think what ruined BSG for you was the expansion bloat. Think on your review of Rise of Ix. Did the expansions help BSG? Or did it just make the game more inaccessible, much longer and more random? Try the base game again. My group is always looking for a fifth as well!
I actually think the expansions, with their modularity, helped BSG for me. BSG isn't a euro, rather its a sprawling, epic social deduction game, where having more stuff actually gives more points to deduce around. While I didn't use the pegasus end game board, or the cylon characters, stuff like the additional humans, cylon fleet, and just more encounter cards helped the experience.
One of the main reasons why I consider the Exodus expansion a must buy for BSG, is that it fixes the random nature of cylon fleet spawns, changing the system from sudden drops of ships, to an ongoing tension that stays with you throughout the game. Cheers! -Ashton
Yeah I'm with Ashton here, the expansions did nothing but help iron out some problems from base while also adding in legitimately cool things for everyone to interact with. Cylon fleet being on its own map is such a good talking point for both humans and cylons.
Also, Unfathomable has made BSG completely obsolete in our group for actually being super accessible, being faster, and making player/enemy positioning matter so much more.
-Daniel
@@Shelfside thanks for your replies. Though, one last point to make! In my opinion, the base game was much more about conflict between players rather than conflict with enemy units. It was a much tighter experience where the Admiral and President are immensely more powerful in that both titles hold complete control over fuel and food, respectively. This created tension with their decisions as any one decision they made could turn the game into a tail spin. As executions are not possible (and political prowess is not a “I win” card and no Cally), players must fight with one another over control of the ship and the ship’s titles. I’m working on a review of the base game compared with Unfathomable. Hope you check it out when I post it as there is something beautiful in the base game you can’t see unless you remove the expansions.
The expansions, in particular, the exodus expansion converts BSG into a cooperative game play experience where you pretend to behave so you can get an executive order. Base game BSG was about setting up your character’s win condition in the event you are activated as Cylon.
@@CarlosHernandez-tn9eb Great points! I wholeheartedly agree that Cally is bonkers broken. The admiral and President in general is a great dynamic that I didn't quite feel in Unfathomable, yet unfathomable's accessibility pushed it over the edge for us. It's been quite some time since I have compared exodus to base game experience iin my head, so that's a great counterpoint! -Ashton
Funny you mentioned Dead of Winter.
I will never touch that game again. In my humble opinion it was SUCH a boring game.
I don't think I'm a hoarder but I have regretted every time that I got rid of a game I liked. Minus my munchkin....
I thought that would be the case, but we just have SOO many games to play, and if something isn't ridiculously tempting to play again, and at this scale, we have to let it go :3 -Ashton
@@Shelfside maybe I'm a hoarder lol
Human lost every time with 5 players too… but is still fun. Olay no sympathizer official rules and will be 40% for hyman and 60% for tosters. Is amazing game…. Is just maybe not your cup of tea
The tears
Cylons doesn't win in BSG, it's game who is winning. BSG and this type of games are just Eldritch Horror with a traitor mechanic. So, i do not see a reason to play BSG when you can play EH and will be quicker. AND you can play it with less people or even by yourself.
Yo we have community playing bsg on reg basis with all expacs. Over 2k games under our belts and winratio is 45 v 55. If interested hmu.
holy cow that's awesome! I would like to keep my BSG plays in person though, since I like the magic more there :D Maybe at a convention mate! -Ashton
How dare you.
I disagree with almost everything in this video.
1) Time inefficient? Maybe you are playing with people with analysis paralysis? Our games always run fairly quickly: 4-players, two hours with a ten minute break at the halfway jump point. We don't jibber-jabber or overanalyze, though. We keep it moving and tense, just as the theme would dictate.
2) We taught our preteen sons in a matter of minutes. The first game only took 30 minutes longer than all subsequent games.
3) The whole premise of the BSG universe is constant suffering, hence the constant crisis cards.
4) We have only played 4-player, so can't speak to this. By playing with 4, EVERYONE is co-op until the halfway point. That works way better than possibly having a cylon from the beginning. The sleeper agent mechanic is so well-integrated.
5) We've only had the cylon win twice in ten games. The super-cooperative nature of the humans once the cylon is revealed speaks to the theme.
6) We showed the preteens one 5-minute BSG youtube synopsis of the show to get them into the theme. Capital battles, dogfighting, intrigue, constant misery? You don't even have to watch the whole show to get it. As for the mechanics, they love Among Us and ONU Werewolf, so we knew this would be a shoo-in for them. We put on the soundtrack in the background- those "tribal" drums thumping make it an intense experience every time. We do not own ANY other board game that gives us that video-game-anxiety feel like the pressure in this game does.
But to each, their own. RIP your BSG
1) Group dependence tends to rely on which groups play which games, so what works for one group may not work for another.
3) It's about humans vs. robots, which sounds universal, but then you get into the characters and background and without the support of the show, some may just see it as a Terminator ripoff and would probably rather play that instead of the ripoff.
4) Isn't that still relying on an exact player count, which wasn't the designers' intention?
5) Perhaps group-dependent games (like party games), over actual cogent gameplay, is probably why Ashton bailed on this, much like how most veteran gamers bail on Monopoly.
6) Any game that requires a video to teach it may not have the best rulebook (looking at you, Fantasy Flight), and it's also not helpful for anyone impulse buying (when it was available).
@@commandercaptain4664 the video to which I referred was a synopsis of the show, got the board game. For theme, not instructions. The included manual is very well done.
Also, terminator ripoff? The original BSG predates terminator.
@@commandercaptain4664 Knowing BSG certainly adds to the game but it's not important at all. The necessary story can be explained in a minute and that's it. Most people who play Arkham haven't read any of the Lovecraft novels either.
UNSUBSCRIBED!!
All joking aside, this video really upset me. Everything you said hit home, everything you pointed out was a knife stab at my heart. But I agree with every point. And that terrifies me. I don't want to hear the truth, but I have to. I haven't played my copy in years for many of the same concerns. For now, my complete collection stays on my shelf, but this video is going to live rent-free in my head for some time to come.
Yo denis, glad to see ya here! The complete collection is one of the most satisfying things to look at. Even if you don't play it again, it looks so sick as a backdrop
But remember, the beauty of BSG is that its highs are SOOOO high that they end up muddying over the lows sometimes. Hopefully you will get another great shot at it
-Ashton
@@Shelfside All my best memories of it are from the times with my friends from college back home in Ireland. All my friends knew the game really well, set up and play was super fast. We could get a 5 player game done in about 90 minutes. Since moving to Canada ten years ago, I think I've managed to get it to the table twice, both teaching games, both running long and falling a bit flat. It hurts so much. But I still dream of the day I get a group together and it runs smooth and fun, like in the old days... Maybe we'll meet at some con in the future and play a game together. Great video, Ashton.
@@DenisRyan 90 minutes!!!? Man am I jealous. I have the same thing going on, we used to play this game fairly often in high school, and then when people graduated the BSG just faded from our lives. Let's play together, and remember, I never get dealt the cylon for some reason -Ashton
I unfortunately got to play a few games that lost their magic while at college, and they've definitely muddied a lot of my amazing memories of BSG, being concerned and not playing is totally a good call imo
-Daniel
The big deal with resistance, is it sucks and could be played with 52 cards as card replacement. There is no game, just figuring who is who vs bsg
With that said, I agree with the points you make. Bsg is a commitment to play and having to get a bunch of players to get it going is tough. There's also the pure coop you can play where there's no cylons and the humans just have to reach their destination.