Whatever you say about Mike Brown’s natural talent you never saw him take a step backwards or give less than maximal effort on an England shirt. I loved watching him play.
@@Makethemostofit1 great point. Stewards got real courage and what I like about him is he appears to play totally without fear which seems to have afflicted some other folks in the squad. I just hope that we can get it together in time for ‘23 RWC.
Yeah I thought he was a solid all round fullback, good under the high ball, decent kicking game, good defence, could beat defenders with pace and footwork. Steward is just like a bigger version of that
This obsession Eddie had with the World Cup, as if no other games really mattered was what changed my opinion of him. It’s a great tactic to keep your job safe for 4 years but England fans want to see the team strive and enjoy their rugby all the time. It should be the time of their lives.
Yeh, I'm pretty sure losing the fans was a big piece of the decision. Getting booed out of Twickenham is a big deal. I doubt anyone would have minded losing to SA if the performance had been better and we'd seen a great game.
he focused too much on beating the all blacks as if that was the only team to beat - they would be run ragged after playing abs win/draw then fail dismally to SA that will be eddies legacy
Yeah but the RFU implicitly decided to focus on the world cup, by both choosing Eddie, and then consistently framing the poor 6Ns around building blocks for the world cup. Don't blame the guy delivering the strategy, blame the strategists. The RFU are trying to do a Liz Truss move here and fire someone for doing exactly what they wanted.
@@bodybalanceU2 No, he was just checking whether he still had their measure. He forced NZ to play differently pick players outta place just to beat him and guess what as much as the All Blacks thought they had England beat at half time he exposed them in the 2nd half. I bet you NZ aint never playing that squad as is against SA, France, England ever again.
Mike Brown was spot on with his point about objectivity. Current players are almost too close to see the wood from the trees. The idea of speaking to their clubs was really interesting, because they will come back from an England camp or series and the club can assess their condition both physical and mental. Certain types of players suit certain coaches others clash, regardless of win ratio. Eddie has the highest win % of any England coach, I guess it was the trajectory the team are on that was the nail in his coffin. As a Scotman I think England will be up there for the 6 nations in Feb March, they will be a different beast.
As an Englishman I’m really enjoying watching Scotland. Finn is the man! At Tigers we get to see the great Scottish players like Hogg, Maitland, Gray. Not to mention our own Matt Scott. He’s a beast
The analogy of Marcus Smith not performing as well for Jones's England as he does for his club side reminds me how Foster cant get the best out of Mo'unga playing for the ABs as Razor can for the Crusaders . Players like Mo'unga an Smith need to be handed the keys of the car without the extra influence of the Farrells and Barretts etc.
When Scottie walks into a room, everything changes. He's down to earth, humble, a boys- boy. He values everyone's opinion, from the janitor to the analyst. He wants to hear it all. His gift is creating a culture thst brings the best out of people - always has been since his very first day of coaching. He needs technicians around him but he's open about that. Just a good genuine bloke with a decent rugby mind.
I feel what has made everyone stand up and think about Eddie is what Andy Farrell has done since he has gone to Ireland and how he has changed them in such a short period off time !!
England's results at next years RWC can be anything you want them to be based on your views. Think Eddie was great? + Bad RWC result = because they got rid of Eddie + Good RWC result = because he laid groundwork Think Eddie was bad? + Bad RWC result = Eddie's fault + Good RWC result = New guy did it
The final in ‘19 and the recent game against SA were mirror images of each other. Squeezed upfront, beaten in contact, tackled into the ground. Absolutely zero progress on that front in 3 years. Had to go. Surely England want more than just another final.
Mike Brown said it. 'BE BRAVE'... England currently play the lowest risk rugby possible. And pick players based on how they can mitigate the threats of the opposition. I want to see players like Radwan who maybe defensively dont offer as much, but going forward are scary. Christian Wade was a player who should have had 50 caps minimum. But what he offered going forward we never cared about even before Eddie. Thats so true with current young talent coming through. Mostly I'm sick of watching low risk, kick rush defence repeat rugby.
Wade tried American football and didn't quite cut it. I imagine he's back in the UK playing rugby somewhere, or has he retired and is playing amateur or not at all?
@@ldfreitas9437 difficult to say he didn't quite cut it. He was never given a chance. Dont really see the point of the international pathway programme for NFL when coaches don't and will never trust players who haven't been learning the game since they were 10. He scored a touchdown with his first touch of the ball and he still couldn't even make the roster. That is a giant sign to anyone else thinking of going over not to bother. He's back now playing rugby in France last I heard. Wasps wanted him back, but for obvious reasons couldn't afford him. Sad that he felt he wanted to leave Rugby because his talents were never appreciated at international level.
I get the sense that England once more have become fearful of playing freely, only at the end of the AB game did the shackles get thrown off. This has long been our flaw, I look back on the career of David Duckham and recall how I used to say during the game, give him the ball, it never seemed to happen.
I'm sure the Australian national team would be very happy to get Eddie back in Australia. Watch out boys, as the Aussies are building and improving nicely towards the RWC 2023. Snagging Eddie could be just what they need.
Can’t wait to see Australia in the World Cup, not because I think they will fair well but because they’ll finally have consequence for their annoying grass cutter tackles (Fangai’a) and shoulder charges (Koriobete)
'We've got tghe talent, more player and the best 35 etc...'. Have we? I think not. England have more players, however, are you honestly saying that England's top 50 players are better than the AB's or boks best 50 players? Better everything but not better International players.
Exactly right. Size of the player base is irrelevant - it's finding the very few who are world class that matters. Most of the registered players in England turn out every week for Old Schoolteam 3XV against local rugby club 3XV.
We’ve got a bigger pool of players and no shortage of talent with a pretty much bottomless budget. If we don’t have the best 35 then that’s on Eddie Jones. As far as I can see EJ has run his course - he’s got no more ideas.
Not sure if the RFU want SR but they should offer him whatever he wants. Problem is he doesn’t want the job, he wants the NZ job and looks like he is happy to wait for that. Shame as would love to see him coaching the group of players we have.
"Compare what England have got to any other country in the world, you'd back them all day long." Er no... I wouldn't. Look at France, SA, NZ. That said, Eddie's get out of jail card that focuses solely on the World Cup got old. Browny makes some great points though. Nobody wants to wait 4 years to see some decent rugby, even in the unlikely event that he did have some God-level plan up his sleeve. I'd love to see Razor at the helm too, but I suspect Borthwick will get the nod.
Exactly what I thought too. I think that's one of England's main problems, they overvalue their establishment /infrastructure and depth - they feel these entitle them to be the best in the world. In reality there are number of teams that instead turn up with players that find a way to give 150%, they earn the key moments. England has had teams like these in the past, this current one hasn't earned anything, and it's the players not the coach that aren't digging deep.
Jones had the uncanny ability of making a group of men play well below the sum of their individual parts, whilst surrounding himself with sycophants, including the players. He created a harem of addicts and Eddie was their dealer
Also highest win % of any England coach ever. Can not like the guy and think his methods are wrong, but also shouldn't dismiss his accomplishments up to this point.
@@Gilescowdemdem youre right but he started with a pretty decent team and gained a lot of early results with wins dropping off the longer he has been there whilst Clive went the other way....started with armatures carried them to the professional era, and led them to be almost unbeatable between 2001 and 2003...he and a lot of the players shouldve left after the WC win but his results were more consistent and progress was visible which you can't say about eddie.
“He’s got the talent” and “you’d back those 35 players against anyone in the world”. Really? Where’s the evidence for that? If anything, the last two years have shown the top level English talent isn’t good enough. Which English players would get in Ireland’s team? France’s team? New Zealand’s? One, maybe 2, if you’re being kind.
Scott Robertson is a great coach but his heart is with the All Blacks. The Australians got rid of Eddie because he was toxic at the end with poor results and this seems to be history repeating itself.
Mike Brown after winning back to back Six Nations titles “Eddie is the best coach I’ve ever worked under. Compared to previous coaches he really brings the best out of players, connects with us on a personal level, and makes playing for England enjoyable again” (Speaking to BBC post the 2017 Ireland defeat) Mike Brown after EJ didn’t select him for Japan 2019: “Eddie is a dictator he runs a dictatorship where it is his way or no way and if you don’t fit the mould you are out. It’s time for him to go” 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
I’m worried that they’ll go with Cockerill or Borthwick. Robertson would be an excellent, brave and farsighted choice. I just can’t see England wanting to break the bank and get Shaun Edwards away from Frances grasp to Marshall our defence.
I was literally thinking the opposite to Mike... Everyone seems to love Eddie's man management, he knows whats going on in their lives, he tailors motivation to each player apparently Eg. some need a gentle hand and reassuracne and others need bollocked and pushed or throw a pack of haribo at ben youngs when he got too heavy. Its his convoluted 'scenario' based tactics that i'm over. The game is so complicated and detailed, the entire time the players must be thinking what scenario is this? so I need to do x,y,z rather than looking up and playing whats in front of them and expressing themselves. England have shown zero 'style of play' under eddie jones recently, only moments, sometimes forward dominant set piece, sometimes flowing backs rugby and sometimes excessive kicking. Jones is so caught up trying to be able to have an answer to every single OTHER teams style of play, that he has forgotten to give England their own style
You've been watching people like the Good the Bad and the Rugby who are Eddie's biggest sycophants to the point where Hask just spouts meaningless platitudes. Most players dont seem to like Eddie, but Eddie cultivates his little in crowd - people like Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs, Ellis Genge, Maro Itoje, Kyle Sinckler and uses them to set the tone and keep the other players obedient. That little in crowd then tells the media hwat a great man manager Eddie is. But the problems come when those "leaders" stop performing themselves, which they have.done. Agreed on Englands micro management and lack of any style under Jones.
@@powerbite92 totally agree. Too many “old guard” players have jumped the shark and farrells legs went ages ago. Now his kickings gone kaput as well, why is he in the team. Youngs should have been out to pasture 3 years ago - he’s obvs too busy filing shower gel adverts. 😂 Itoje writing gobby cheques that his current form can’t cash. Just belt up and get on with the game. All of them.
I think you’re spot on porkchop. Perhaps the culture in the England camp has slipped in recent years but I think Eddies biggest fault is trying to be too clever. He thinks he’s a master tactician that’s one step ahead of everyone else, playing players out of position and always favouring a tactical kicking game because he’s read some statistic somewhere that teams that kick more win more. With the hordes of talent England has knocking at its door we just need a coach that can blood some of these new players and let them express themselves. There’s no point playing Marcus Smith if you’re not going to let him play like Marcus Smith.
Ireland , France , New Zealand , South Africa............. but under Eddie would you be confident of a win against Australia?Argentina?Scotland?Wales or Italy even?? with the pool of talent this country has, he has seriously under performed and had to go
Its not rocket science, it is like any workplace, management by fear may deliver short term gains, but over the longer term it always fails. Jones has always come across to me as an arrogant passive-aggressive head f£$% merchant, and I'm also tired of the "we are building towards" excuse. Look back at that England World Cup football team under Ranieri, as Joe Cole said on TV the other day, the atmosphere was so bad that the players simply didn't play to their potential. Look now under Southgate, it isn't complicated, people respond to positivity, clear direction and a sense of loyalty.
Players like Genge, Farrell, Smith, Curry, Tuilagi are going to say good things about Eddie because they’re his golden boys. What about Quirke, Randell, Earl, Freeman or any of the many players who’ve been tossed aside?
@@brentmeistergeneral6074No, the 180 + players that Jones the genius has messed around over the last two years. How about looking at what is actually happening with the England set up before you type some more bolox?
Always enjoyed the rivalry with England, even during Johnsons days ( IE ) always admired the players and coaches, but Jones seemed hell bent on making everyone dislike England.. It worked initially ( tactic wise ) but when every team not only wanted to beat you but also dislike you, its no longer Rugby. England lost nuance and just wanted to hurt opponents, had Jones written all over it.
The mistake was the decision to keep Eddie on after the last WC and not have the vision then to see he had had a good 4 years, but that he wouldn't make a god long-term coach. It seemed clear then from the outside, but maybe there was a lack of options to replace him at the time, though I doubt it. I agree that Scot Robertson would be great for England and preferable to Borthwick, who still seems a bit green to me and also too well-known to these players. The RFU will undoubtedly go for Borthwick, however and England will settle into a period of predictable mediocrity and mild underachievement.
and neither should he!! Eddies loyalty to several others is why we`ve been utter shite lately , especially when different players are carving up the prem week in week out and being overlooked
Mark Mccall wins 6 Premierships and 3 Heinekens but can not coach England as he has no international experience. Rob Baxter wins 2 Premierships and 1 Heineken but can not coach England as he has no international experience. Steve Borthwick wins 1 Premiership and the RFU are instantly planning for him to be the next England coach no matter what/where or when. Just when you start to believe the unjustified level of influence Leicester has on English rugby was starting to weaken the RFU prove you wrong.
We need a coach who will not just pick Smith but also the players that compliment his game. The calls for Farrell at 10 are ridiculous we won’t win the World Cup with him at 10 and I can’t believe people think we will. We have so many talented players but the backs have looked so disjointed and some of the selections in the pack were strange to say the least why pick Itoje in the back row. I was a fan of Jones prior to the last 6 nations it was evident we had gone backwards and he should have gone then.
Mr Brown first of all I am a South African Second ,I think your record as a player is MORE than adequate to qualify you as one who actually can have an opinion on this....
I don’t blame the coach I blame the players. The England job is the most difficult job out of all the top rugby nations. A culture change is needed in English rugby. You have to ask yourself this question. Why has Sir Clive Woodward refused to ever come back to help England win another World Cup ? Because he went out on a high and will always be remembered for winning the World Cup with a England. He knows that if he joined the setup now he would be remember as a loosing coach. The British love this culture of political correctness. That’s why you see the football plays still taking the knee. A culture change is needed in English rugby. And it won’t come over night. Ask yourself this: Out of the top 15, 23, 35 rugby players in the world, how many are English? Now with that number in your head, what chance do you have of winning the World Cup ?
Hi there its sad that he's gone but the country needs a Robert baxter as the new England manager but it might take a year or two but he's been building up for this his whole life and he knows english rugby inside out from the bottom up.he is an exceptional coach I personally think its high time he's considered although I love exeter I feel he would be the best of all after the last few years of premiership rugby
Brown can put the boot in here in this interview because realistically he`s out of the framework of players , just give it a few days for the dust to settle and you watch all the others put the boot in , all the man management stories will come out , Eddies biggest asset was also his downfall and that was his ENORMOUS ego
Just look at Scotland two pro teams, small budget, small playing pool and they beat us 4 out of 5 games over past five years!!! We've largest playing pool, largest budget, biggest league 😭
Sometimes you really can have too much. I think we need to bury this trope about England's depth of players etc. Yes, there are a lot of players qualified to wear the Rose but quantity has never been a guide to quality. We just need to identify thirty/thirty five players who can do a job at the top level and go from there.
With all due respect to English rugby and it's supporters, you might compete for a period, but you just haven't got the all-round necessities to be up their with the southern hemisphere countries.. just my opinion..
I really believe Eddi is still a great coach. South Africa will do well to hire him as a technical coach until after the world Cup. Every team in the world has gone through bad times. Everything can not be the fault of the coach. Bad move to fire Eddi Jones.
Thats an opportunity for Rassie for world cup purposes. If we dont some team is definitely taking on him in your proposed role before the world cup, namely; Aussies
Brown lost me in the first 2 mins when he said ENgland has the most talent and depth in the world... Bro England rugby sucks, the prem is manned by internationals and the style of rugby is trash. If you want talent, go to SA, NZ, pacific islands.. English players and fans are deluded if they think they're even in the top 5 of talent pools. The main problem being a rubbish school rugby system.
Talent!? I hear that term thrown around so often when in relation to England rugby... Even depth of talent... Which of the current England players would've made the 2003 team? Would you even have picked Itoje over Johnson or Kay? Youngs for Dawson? Any backline player over Tindal or Robinson? Any hooker over Thompson? Any of the current loosies over Hill, Back or D-how do you spell it? Let's be clear, England has precious little talent and what Jones achieved with them is miraculous. Even worse than the talent situation, who are the great characters in this team? That's why this present team can lose a match from almost any lead and is not known for come-from-behind victories... Don't fool yourself, there's more talent in the average South African slum or Pacific mini-island than amongst the thousands of pro English players. And, your best chance is to stick with Eddie.
Let the chorus of whinging begin, any new coach brings changes. The over hyped player pool and idiocy of only playing guys that are based in England has to change. This all starts at the premiership level boring predictable games
I believe Scott Robertson (the worlds best rugby coach) wants to coach the All Blacks and not England as he is a proud kiwi, hes waiting for Foster the clown to move out of the way, Scott is ours and the English wont steal him 😛
Mike Brown 0:57 "I you compare to any other team in the world"! My gosh the English are full of them selves. That's always been their problem. The English think better of them self then what they actually are.
Where is this player talent? There is not one English player that will get a start for the Springboks, All Blacks, France or perhaps even Ireland. Jones got fantastic results with an average squad
Talk of England having more resources and paying more than other Unions seems to be a non-topic. At the top level, there seems to be little correlation between 'money in' and 'results out'. The RFU should rein in their spending at the elite level (which isn't providing a good ROI) and invest more in other things e.g. grassroots rugby, Sevens.
@@iluvmusicqwe Rugby strives to be an inclusive sport and in my experience it is. The system should be getting the best players from whichever path they travel. This is the equitable way and gives England the best chance to succeed.
I'm sure Scott Robertson is a good coach and was relaxed coaching the Barbarians, but England needs to develop England coaches too. I can't understand why we would want to build the CV of a NZ provincial coach, to get the NZ coaching role he understandably wants, when we should be giving England coaches an opportunity who can be supported by coaches from anywhere.
Robinson hasn't been really tested on a international level , His Canterbury team are loaded with talent and it has always been that way , Eddie jones would of had the same track record coaching Canterbury As did Robinson did. the facts
We have played some brilliant rugby in the past under Eddie such as the tour to Australia when we won 3 0. We have gone backwards at a rapid rate and look like we're on the field trying to remember what drills in training we need to carry out. Hardly any free flowing thought or running rugby. Had to go.
England need a top experience coach with big CV not some rookie coach Jones had a good CV but if they go for Borthwick he's needs experience coaching assistant's to come in to help get the the best performances out of the players remember martin Johnson as England coach it didn't end well RFU have said they want Englishman and Borthwick fits the bill what a about Baxter from Exeter he might be a good choice let's hope who ever takes the job we get a coaches bounce 🏉🏉🏴🌹👍😁
Just read an interview with Borthwick about his approach to coaching. He really does come across as Jones 2.0, obsessed with detail, constantly analysing and adjusting to the extent that his nickname at Tigers is "the computer". My heart just sank. We don't need another would be scientist we need a free thinker who will encourage the players to perform with clear heads and self expression within a team context.
Do keep in mind: asking Mike Brown for essentially a reference on Eddie (post RFU dismissal and not to mention MB getting axed by EJ himself) is a bit like asking Jonny Depp whether he recommends his ex .....
Maybe, just maybe, England are a bit light on the talent side at the moment? Average playmakers with slow distribution , no one with any significant pace, modest loose forwards and a below par front row… perhaps Eddie has done more with this team than anyone else could possibly do🤷♂️
Yeah, we got great handling props that aren't great scrummagers, EJ refused to pick a decent scavenger like Earl or Willis, Billy V has been out of international form for years, Smithy has been shackled, Faz ain't a 12, Manu is on about 70%, Nowell is too slow for a test wing, May is out of form. New blood required... from somewhere!
I think you’re right perhaps we are light on talent but there are players who looked to have talent or should I say potential just didn’t get a look in under EJ and if they did were the first to be jettisoned when things didn’t go right.
Anonymous player survey? I hate chicken management who ask the team members if their boss is up to scratch, laying all the responsibility two levels down from where it belongs. What happens to real men, many of them ex rugby players, when they become part of our national unions? They all seem to have troubles with testicular fortitude.
@@IverKnackerov Maybe so. But It's not the team's job. It's the manager's job to assess the performance of their employees. It's not the employees' job to assess the performance of their manager. If I assess my manager as deficient, I go work for someone else. See the Harvard Business School research entitled "People Leave Bad Managers ... "
Eddie Jones is fuckin intense. I know some staff that bailed on England recently because they just couldn't cope being on call 24/7 and his relentless nature. That does get you so far. There is a time and place for it. But ultimately to win a word cup ya need more that strategy and the rub of the green. You need a spirit / culture that enables players to really show up for one another - to sacrifice for the extra millimeter. Culture empowers players to deliver on that and Razor has the key that unlocks that last little bit required from players.
Really respect Mike brown as a player but didn’t enjoy his thoughts here. They are his opinion and he is entitled too that.however, I’m not in agreement with a lot of what he said. He hasn’t been in the squad for some Time. However, he was in the squad and does know many of the players…. Therefore to conclude, respect his opinion. From what I can see I disagree. But I Am on an armchair having a guiness from the outside. Love the pod !!!!
So what? That happens at every club in the country week in, week out. Or, it should. Jones was just wanting to pin Brown because he wasn't one of his little yes men.
Think when you have to explain you're not bitter you've kind of lost the conversation before uttering a word Mike! Eddie's dismissal is one hell of a call 10 months out from a WC. He is a coach that plans for the WC and peaks for them consistently, NO WC winning team does well 12 months out from a WC, to best of my knowledge only 1 team in the history of the WC has won their domestic title, 6N/TRC before the WC. To cut him this close is and says more about internal wrangling with the Rugby Union and not Eddie’s ability to get England to a WC and be successful...
Eddie Jones focused on the World Cup as the place he should be judged on because he knew that England would avoid the 4 best teams (France, Ire, SA and NZ) till the semi-final, when it becomes a lottery anyway and those 4 teams would be more mentally and physically exhausted. He could then claim it was a success whatever happens. England will make the semi-final of the World Cup irrespective of who is in charge.
@@trenchantinsightno doubting that the draw was kind to England but WC's are a lottery no matter what when it comes to KO phases. Eddie's record at WC's is unquestionable as an Irish supporter looking in it's amazing that they’ve pulled the carpet now, if they were gonna do it it should have been done 2021. It’s England’s biggest achilles' heel and you do it to yourselves in ALL sports. OVER ESTIMATE yourselves. Eddie got you to a final last time… but hey England heading in to the WC without a proven Head Coach damn cheers for the early Christmas present!
@@joelyons886 England have been drifting backwards at an increasing rate for 2 years at least and Eddie Jones gave the impression he couldn't stop it and more than that, that couldn't care less at all, which can't have helped and was a bit insulting. He should have been shown the door a year ago (or after the last world cup - part of the normal cycle). There are fundamental problems with the RFU, but Eddie Jones was part of that too and I think you will see a much better England side soon. For the playing pool and money English rugby has, the results (and especially performance) on the pitch have been very shoddy. Whether it is in time for the World Cup, we'll see, but I'm very happy to see him packing his bags.
@@joelyons886 as an Irishman it probably won't be your sport, but England turned round their cricket team's performance in all formats extremely quickly across all formats. Sometimes it just takes a change of mentality and a bit of freshness. Can't wait for the Six Nations now, should be even better than normal as a competition
@@trenchantinsight love cricket and to be fair it's growth over the past 10 year in Ireland has been massive. Quite a few schools play it and we have produced some quality players... even some that ended up playing for you lot! England though always had highs n lows in Cricket but you are spot on the rise of the game across all facists of it be that 20/20, test what ever has been bloody impressive. Still think Eddie was cut too soon and B will have an easy enough run to the semi's in the WC so the real presure won't hit till 2024 when you tour NZ... Maybe that's why England are pushing for a max 2 Test Series than the 3...
no they don’t have the greatest talent pool! on the basis of what evidence you say that? english got more inherent talent than … hum … who? … ahh … nothing coming to mind so far …
Brown saying that England have the best talent tells you exactly what's wrong with English rugby. Not one English player will make a world XV but that arrogance within English rugby remains. Curry could when on top of his game but he currently isn't anywhere near his best. They sure do overrate their own ability and are deluding themselves. The fact is currently they have an average bunch of players, not saying that Jones got the best out of them but I don't think a new coach will perform miracles with the talent available.
many times the english ego is far bigger than their ability - the classic case was the 2015 RWC in their own country - what an embarrassment that tournament much have been for the team and their fans
At the time I felt Marcus should have been taken to the World Cup in Japan. I felt there was something very special about him and that his unpredictability could upset the opposition's apple cart if England were in a bind with 15 minutes to go and it was shit or bust time. As it happened the opportunity to try something radical against the Springboks was not available when it was required in the final and it was clear England were dead and buried. It is the opposite of McGeechan not hesitating to call up Guscott for the Lions when he only had one cap against Romania. Interestingly, Marcus only became a regular starter after the Lions had the audacity to call him up.
Would be a big mistake 😱. You would throw guys off. You will find yourself in a situation like ferrari with Mattia Binnotto fired him. He build something good there! He changed blame game culture so they sacked him now who is going to replace him ? You will change the whole dynamics of team in terms of staring 23. England look dangerous especially your young squad of guys coming threw.In a years time we would face those rookies we played against would be mature that played against us South Africa 🇿🇦. We never won all our games this year.We are working towards World Cup and so should you guys, stay on the road. Its too late to change system mate if you wanted to, it should have happened 3 years ago just after last world cup. Eddie Jones is World Class and can handle media to protect his players. He faced the most criticizing media around. If Eddie wasn't there Owen Farrell would be roasted and would not have known how to handle media.You guys can let him go...one less team for us to worry about in the world cup.
its hilarious how the english have so little faith in their own coaches that they always have to go to the SH to get their coaches - that is why nz is so good because they have the best coaches that all other teams want them to coach their team - i think razor is weighing up his options - his number one wish is to coach the abs and england will be his second option if that doesnt materalize - he probably needs to coach an o/s team to give him that experience before coaching the abs - i would like dave rennie or jimmy joseph as the abs future coaches as well - both great kiwi coaches
They're gonna go for Borthwick, but it's too soon for me. Shaun Edwards is the guy. He's literally become the Brian Clough of England Rugby. So successful that appointing him is an admission of past failings for the RFU.
England have been playing awful rugby for over 2 years now. It is boringly predictable and if we cannot overwhelm our opponents physically we are buggered. Jones had multiple fresh starts and multiple coaching changes. The latter is the most telling. He has been in the job two years too long
But a 73% win rate is similar to Laurie Mains and Foster the All blacks worst coaches. Henry and Hansen were 80 and 90% that's what England with the most resources of any country should be aspiring to.
This win % was declining rapidly in the last 3 years, this year it was under 50% lol . He was dining out on what he achieved from 16-19. Its regressed significantly.
England has 40 million people? NZ has about 10% of that. The player base in England is huge compared to NZ. The england budget is overwhelmingly bigger than NZ. I find it hard to believe the is no one born in england that can coach. Scott is great. But first loss and the journos would slaughter him. Eddie is good, but it is not a good test to take a winning team and keep winning. The real test is how one performs when losing. And we all gonna lose occasionally.
All the opinions you need from players is the voting they're doing with their feet as they shuffle to France. Playing for England is no longer attractive and future prospects like Umaga have left for a contract that will likely put him on the market again for Samoa once it's done.
They definitely don’t have the best 15, 23 or 35 man squad in world rugby Mike. Yes the talent spread across their clubs is brilliant but it’s all irrelevant when playing Eddie’s game plan.
Whatever you say about Mike Brown’s natural talent you never saw him take a step backwards or give less than maximal effort on an England shirt. I loved watching him play.
@@Makethemostofit1 great point. Stewards got real courage and what I like about him is he appears to play totally without fear which seems to have afflicted some other folks in the squad. I just hope that we can get it together in time for ‘23 RWC.
Yeah I thought he was a solid all round fullback, good under the high ball, decent kicking game, good defence, could beat defenders with pace and footwork. Steward is just like a bigger version of that
Love Steward but weirdly still think it's not a settled position. Both Malins and definitely Arundel offer so much threat.
@@dazeng4633 I'm pretty settled on Steward tbh he's just reliable, would like to see Arundel and Radwan on the wings
@@CalB33 he's great mate agreed but I'm just not sure if we're going to really fly at teams if he fits into that. Time will tell
This obsession Eddie had with the World Cup, as if no other games really mattered was what changed my opinion of him. It’s a great tactic to keep your job safe for 4 years but England fans want to see the team strive and enjoy their rugby all the time. It should be the time of their lives.
Yeh, I'm pretty sure losing the fans was a big piece of the decision. Getting booed out of Twickenham is a big deal. I doubt anyone would have minded losing to SA if the performance had been better and we'd seen a great game.
@@Gilescowdemdem no shame in losing, agreed.
he focused too much on beating the all blacks as if that was the only team to beat - they would be run ragged after playing abs win/draw then fail dismally to SA that will be eddies legacy
Yeah but the RFU implicitly decided to focus on the world cup, by both choosing Eddie, and then consistently framing the poor 6Ns around building blocks for the world cup. Don't blame the guy delivering the strategy, blame the strategists. The RFU are trying to do a Liz Truss move here and fire someone for doing exactly what they wanted.
@@bodybalanceU2 No, he was just checking whether he still had their measure. He forced NZ to play differently pick players outta place just to beat him and guess what as much as the All Blacks thought they had England beat at half time he exposed them in the 2nd half. I bet you NZ aint never playing that squad as is against SA, France, England ever again.
Mike Brown was spot on with his point about objectivity. Current players are almost too close to see the wood from the trees. The idea of speaking to their clubs was really interesting, because they will come back from an England camp or series and the club can assess their condition both physical and mental. Certain types of players suit certain coaches others clash, regardless of win ratio. Eddie has the highest win % of any England coach, I guess it was the trajectory the team are on that was the nail in his coffin. As a Scotman I think England will be up there for the 6 nations in Feb March, they will be a different beast.
As an Englishman I’m really enjoying watching Scotland. Finn is the man! At Tigers we get to see the great Scottish players like Hogg, Maitland, Gray. Not to mention our own Matt Scott. He’s a beast
English have no game plan .. The RFU can see this .. results back this up.. time to go ..
6 nations could be a car crash ..
😁
@@markc3258 we will see!
The analogy of Marcus Smith not performing as well for Jones's England as he does for his club side reminds me how Foster cant get the best out of Mo'unga playing for the ABs as Razor can for the Crusaders . Players like Mo'unga an Smith need to be handed the keys of the car without the extra influence of the Farrells and Barretts etc.
B. Barrett would get into any other country's starting XV
@@tobyslater2011 Missing the point really!!!
The Premiership is far easier than Test match rugby. Smith is still lacking in so many areas. The big boys will soon find him out.
Marcus Smith can't play on the back food full stop 😒. The international level is too high for him. When he learns to tackle, bring him back.
When Scottie walks into a room, everything changes. He's down to earth, humble, a boys- boy. He values everyone's opinion, from the janitor to the analyst. He wants to hear it all. His gift is creating a culture thst brings the best out of people - always has been since his very first day of coaching. He needs technicians around him but he's open about that. Just a good genuine bloke with a decent rugby mind.
Zq
Just like Eddie then? PMSL!!!!
You just know the RFU will make a hash of this
Oh yeh!
I feel what has made everyone stand up and think about Eddie is what Andy Farrell has done since he has gone to Ireland and how he has changed them in such a short period off time !!
England's results at next years RWC can be anything you want them to be based on your views.
Think Eddie was great?
+ Bad RWC result = because they got rid of Eddie
+ Good RWC result = because he laid groundwork
Think Eddie was bad?
+ Bad RWC result = Eddie's fault
+ Good RWC result = New guy did it
The final in ‘19 and the recent game against SA were mirror images of each other. Squeezed upfront, beaten in contact, tackled into the ground. Absolutely zero progress on that front in 3 years. Had to go. Surely England want more than just another final.
Given the draw, another final should be the minimum for England.
I wonder if Genge still holds the same opinion as last week now that Eddie's gone
exactly , and he won`t be the only one once the dust settles , man management stories will seep out in the next week or two i`m sure
Mike Brown said it. 'BE BRAVE'... England currently play the lowest risk rugby possible. And pick players based on how they can mitigate the threats of the opposition. I want to see players like Radwan who maybe defensively dont offer as much, but going forward are scary. Christian Wade was a player who should have had 50 caps minimum. But what he offered going forward we never cared about even before Eddie. Thats so true with current young talent coming through. Mostly I'm sick of watching low risk, kick rush defence repeat rugby.
Wade tried American football and didn't quite cut it. I imagine he's back in the UK playing rugby somewhere, or has he retired and is playing amateur or not at all?
@@ldfreitas9437 difficult to say he didn't quite cut it. He was never given a chance. Dont really see the point of the international pathway programme for NFL when coaches don't and will never trust players who haven't been learning the game since they were 10. He scored a touchdown with his first touch of the ball and he still couldn't even make the roster. That is a giant sign to anyone else thinking of going over not to bother. He's back now playing rugby in France last I heard. Wasps wanted him back, but for obvious reasons couldn't afford him. Sad that he felt he wanted to leave Rugby because his talents were never appreciated at international level.
@@ldfreitas9437 tearing it up at Racing 92 in France!
I get the sense that England once more have become fearful of playing freely, only at the end of the AB game did the shackles get thrown off. This has long been our flaw, I look back on the career of David Duckham and recall how I used to say during the game, give him the ball, it never seemed to happen.
I'm sure the Australian national team would be very happy to get Eddie back in Australia. Watch out boys, as the Aussies are building and improving nicely towards the RWC 2023. Snagging Eddie could be just what they need.
Can’t wait to see Australia in the World Cup, not because I think they will fair well but because they’ll finally have consequence for their annoying grass cutter tackles (Fangai’a) and shoulder charges (Koriobete)
Good shout. Agree they are just a win away from clicking.
Definitely agree 100% with your GREAT idea …Eddie coud very positively change current decayed Australia. Union rugby 👍
'We've got tghe talent, more player and the best 35 etc...'. Have we? I think not. England have more players, however, are you honestly saying that England's top 50 players are better than the AB's or boks best 50 players? Better everything but not better International players.
Exactly right. Size of the player base is irrelevant - it's finding the very few who are world class that matters. Most of the registered players in England turn out every week for Old Schoolteam 3XV against local rugby club 3XV.
Mike Browne was always full of it, nothing has changed .
We’ve got a bigger pool of players and no shortage of talent with a pretty much bottomless budget. If we don’t have the best 35 then that’s on Eddie Jones. As far as I can see EJ has run his course - he’s got no more ideas.
Not sure if the RFU want SR but they should offer him whatever he wants. Problem is he doesn’t want the job, he wants the NZ job and looks like he is happy to wait for that. Shame as would love to see him coaching the group of players we have.
"Compare what England have got to any other country in the world, you'd back them all day long." Er no... I wouldn't. Look at France, SA, NZ. That said, Eddie's get out of jail card that focuses solely on the World Cup got old. Browny makes some great points though. Nobody wants to wait 4 years to see some decent rugby, even in the unlikely event that he did have some God-level plan up his sleeve. I'd love to see Razor at the helm too, but I suspect Borthwick will get the nod.
Exactly what I thought too. I think that's one of England's main problems, they overvalue their establishment /infrastructure and depth - they feel these entitle them to be the best in the world. In reality there are number of teams that instead turn up with players that find a way to give 150%, they earn the key moments. England has had teams like these in the past, this current one hasn't earned anything, and it's the players not the coach that aren't digging deep.
Jones had the uncanny ability of making a group of men play well below the sum of their individual parts, whilst surrounding himself with sycophants, including the players. He created a harem of addicts and Eddie was their dealer
he also is the most consistent coach at WC's... think England have shot a blank in this decision
Also highest win % of any England coach ever. Can not like the guy and think his methods are wrong, but also shouldn't dismiss his accomplishments up to this point.
Well said Tim Tam.
His win success since Jan 2020?
@@Gilescowdemdem youre right but he started with a pretty decent team and gained a lot of early results with wins dropping off the longer he has been there whilst Clive went the other way....started with armatures carried them to the professional era, and led them to be almost unbeatable between 2001 and 2003...he and a lot of the players shouldve left after the WC win but his results were more consistent and progress was visible which you can't say about eddie.
@@thecuttingsark5094 was WC in 2020... Must have missed that, how did Eddie do in the last WC for you? 🤔
“He’s got the talent” and “you’d back those 35 players against anyone in the world”.
Really? Where’s the evidence for that? If anything, the last two years have shown the top level English talent isn’t good enough. Which English players would get in Ireland’s team? France’s team? New Zealand’s?
One, maybe 2, if you’re being kind.
Scott Robertson is a great coach but his heart is with the All Blacks. The Australians got rid of Eddie because he was toxic at the end with poor results and this seems to be history repeating itself.
Mike Brown after winning back to back Six Nations titles “Eddie is the best coach I’ve ever worked under. Compared to previous coaches he really brings the best out of players, connects with us on a personal level, and makes playing for England enjoyable again” (Speaking to BBC post the 2017 Ireland defeat)
Mike Brown after EJ didn’t select him for Japan 2019: “Eddie is a dictator he runs a dictatorship where it is his way or no way and if you don’t fit the mould you are out. It’s time for him to go”
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
He didn’t know him properly until after early 2018 when things got proper dire..
I’m worried that they’ll go with Cockerill or Borthwick. Robertson would be an excellent, brave and farsighted choice.
I just can’t see England wanting to break the bank and get Shaun Edwards away from Frances grasp to Marshall our defence.
I was literally thinking the opposite to Mike... Everyone seems to love Eddie's man management, he knows whats going on in their lives, he tailors motivation to each player apparently Eg. some need a gentle hand and reassuracne and others need bollocked and pushed or throw a pack of haribo at ben youngs when he got too heavy.
Its his convoluted 'scenario' based tactics that i'm over. The game is so complicated and detailed, the entire time the players must be thinking what scenario is this? so I need to do x,y,z rather than looking up and playing whats in front of them and expressing themselves. England have shown zero 'style of play' under eddie jones recently, only moments, sometimes forward dominant set piece, sometimes flowing backs rugby and sometimes excessive kicking. Jones is so caught up trying to be able to have an answer to every single OTHER teams style of play, that he has forgotten to give England their own style
You've been watching people like the Good the Bad and the Rugby who are Eddie's biggest sycophants to the point where Hask just spouts meaningless platitudes. Most players dont seem to like Eddie, but Eddie cultivates his little in crowd - people like Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs, Ellis Genge, Maro Itoje, Kyle Sinckler and uses them to set the tone and keep the other players obedient. That little in crowd then tells the media hwat a great man manager Eddie is. But the problems come when those "leaders" stop performing themselves, which they have.done.
Agreed on Englands micro management and lack of any style under Jones.
@@powerbite92 totally agree. Too many “old guard” players have jumped the shark and farrells legs went ages ago. Now his kickings gone kaput as well, why is he in the team.
Youngs should have been out to pasture 3 years ago - he’s obvs too busy filing shower gel adverts. 😂
Itoje writing gobby cheques that his current form can’t cash. Just belt up and get on with the game. All of them.
I think you’re spot on porkchop. Perhaps the culture in the England camp has slipped in recent years but I think Eddies biggest fault is trying to be too clever. He thinks he’s a master tactician that’s one step ahead of everyone else, playing players out of position and always favouring a tactical kicking game because he’s read some statistic somewhere that teams that kick more win more. With the hordes of talent England has knocking at its door we just need a coach that can blood some of these new players and let them express themselves. There’s no point playing Marcus Smith if you’re not going to let him play like Marcus Smith.
He's mad if he really thinks we've got a better 23 than other teams.
We're behind the top 4 teams by a long way.
Ireland , France , New Zealand , South Africa............. but under Eddie would you be confident of a win against Australia?Argentina?Scotland?Wales or Italy even?? with the pool of talent this country has, he has seriously under performed and had to go
@@davidholgate123 this is something that English fans never admit to themselves. The players in the premiership just aren't that good.
@@iluvmusicqweThat’s just plain false. There’s a ton of young talent in the prem.
Its not rocket science, it is like any workplace, management by fear may deliver short term gains, but over the longer term it always fails. Jones has always come across to me as an arrogant passive-aggressive head f£$% merchant, and I'm also tired of the "we are building towards" excuse. Look back at that England World Cup football team under Ranieri, as Joe Cole said on TV the other day, the atmosphere was so bad that the players simply didn't play to their potential. Look now under Southgate, it isn't complicated, people respond to positivity, clear direction and a sense of loyalty.
Players like Genge, Farrell, Smith, Curry, Tuilagi are going to say good things about Eddie because they’re his golden boys. What about Quirke, Randell, Earl, Freeman or any of the many players who’ve been tossed aside?
You mean the bitter guys like Brown and Burrell? 😂
@@brentmeistergeneral6074No, the 180 + players that Jones the genius has messed around over the last two years. How about looking at what is actually happening with the England set up before you type some more bolox?
Always enjoyed the rivalry with England, even during Johnsons days ( IE ) always admired the players and coaches, but Jones seemed hell bent on making everyone dislike England.. It worked initially ( tactic wise ) but when every team not only wanted to beat you but also dislike you, its no longer Rugby. England lost nuance and just wanted to hurt opponents, had Jones written all over it.
Let's not make Eddie into a villain. He has the best record of any head coach for England. It's time to move on definitely but credit where it's due.
Marginally best (but no world cup!) but he was declining unlike Woodward who grew with the team to the pinnacle of 2003 😁
Before I scroll down I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of England haters on here , we love it by the way! 🏴😀🏴😀🏴
You bet, hate the poms, arrogant and big DOSE.
No, no man. As comical as it is, it‘s not a nice place to be😳
@@karlosdeevs where is not a nice place to be?
@@PUNKinDRUBLIC72 being without a coach with a WC looming on the horizon
The mistake was the decision to keep Eddie on after the last WC and not have the vision then to see he had had a good 4 years, but that he wouldn't make a god long-term coach. It seemed clear then from the outside, but maybe there was a lack of options to replace him at the time, though I doubt it. I agree that Scot Robertson would be great for England and preferable to Borthwick, who still seems a bit green to me and also too well-known to these players. The RFU will undoubtedly go for Borthwick, however and England will settle into a period of predictable mediocrity and mild underachievement.
He’s a 4 year cycle coach. RU extend his after 2003 WC and got sacked in 2005 after losing interest like his current dilemma 😅
The reality is that a coach has no qualms about booting a player they are done with.
and neither should he!! Eddies loyalty to several others is why we`ve been utter shite lately , especially when different players are carving up the prem week in week out and being overlooked
Scott Robinson would be better than Steve Borwick but he is waiting to see if the all Black's job come up
Mark Mccall wins 6 Premierships and 3 Heinekens but can not coach England as he has no international experience.
Rob Baxter wins 2 Premierships and 1 Heineken but can not coach England as he has no international experience.
Steve Borthwick wins 1 Premiership and the RFU are instantly planning for him to be the next England coach no matter what/where or when.
Just when you start to believe the unjustified level of influence Leicester has on English rugby was starting to weaken the RFU prove you wrong.
"...they have the best talent in the world..." Dream on Mate
We need a coach who will not just pick Smith but also the players that compliment his game. The calls for Farrell at 10 are ridiculous we won’t win the World Cup with him at 10 and I can’t believe people think we will. We have so many talented players but the backs have looked so disjointed and some of the selections in the pack were strange to say the least why pick Itoje in the back row. I was a fan of Jones prior to the last 6 nations it was evident we had gone backwards and he should have gone then.
Mr Brown first of all I am a South African
Second ,I think your record as a player is MORE than adequate to qualify you as one who actually can have an opinion on this....
I don’t blame the coach I blame the players. The England job is the most difficult job out of all the top rugby nations. A culture change is needed in English rugby. You have to ask yourself this question. Why has Sir Clive Woodward refused to ever come back to help England win another World Cup ? Because he went out on a high and will always be remembered for winning the World Cup with a England. He knows that if he joined the setup now he would be remember as a loosing coach. The British love this culture of political correctness. That’s why you see the football plays still taking the knee. A culture change is needed in English rugby. And it won’t come over night. Ask yourself this: Out of the top 15, 23, 35 rugby players in the world, how many are English? Now with that number in your head, what chance do you have of winning the World Cup ?
Hopefully Eddie joins a side that beats England in the world cup!!
Hi there its sad that he's gone but the country needs a Robert baxter as the new England manager but it might take a year or two but he's been building up for this his whole life and he knows english rugby inside out from the bottom up.he is an exceptional coach
I personally think its high time he's considered although I love exeter I feel he would be the best of all after the last few years of premiership rugby
Appointing someone with no experience of international rugby, would be utterly daft
We have all got to start somewhere
Surprisingly erudite off the field. On the field he found it a bit more difficult to communicate with other players and the referee if I recall..?
😂 he had his own ways!!!
Brown can put the boot in here in this interview because realistically he`s out of the framework of players , just give it a few days for the dust to settle and you watch all the others put the boot in , all the man management stories will come out , Eddies biggest asset was also his downfall and that was his ENORMOUS ego
I kind of hope so. At the moment I think this is a horrendous decision, and I would hope there's justification that we haven't seen yet.
Just look at Scotland two pro teams, small budget, small playing pool and they beat us 4 out of 5 games over past five years!!! We've largest playing pool, largest budget, biggest league 😭
Sometimes you really can have too much. I think we need to bury this trope about England's depth of players etc. Yes, there are a lot of players qualified to wear the Rose but quantity has never been a guide to quality. We just need to identify thirty/thirty five players who can do a job at the top level and go from there.
"He's got the talent"
Did he? How many England players are genuinely world class (i.e. top 3 in the world in their position)?
With all due respect to English rugby and it's supporters, you might compete for a period, but you just haven't got the all-round necessities to be up their with the southern hemisphere countries.. just my opinion..
Not helpful or true. The NH has been pretty dominant of the SH recently.
More natural talent in Kimberly then England
Who is Razor?
Scott Robertson.
I really believe Eddi is still a great coach. South Africa will do well to hire him as a technical coach until after the world Cup. Every team in the world has gone through bad times. Everything can not be the fault of the coach. Bad move to fire Eddi Jones.
Give him to us as a back line couch from SOUTH AFRICA 🇿🇦
We can do with E.Jones any day with the Boks..E. j will be a better coach because he understand us + he has far better players.
Thats an opportunity for Rassie for world cup purposes. If we dont some team is definitely taking on him in your proposed role before the world cup, namely; Aussies
Brown lost me in the first 2 mins when he said ENgland has the most talent and depth in the world... Bro England rugby sucks, the prem is manned by internationals and the style of rugby is trash. If you want talent, go to SA, NZ, pacific islands.. English players and fans are deluded if they think they're even in the top 5 of talent pools. The main problem being a rubbish school rugby system.
Talent!? I hear that term thrown around so often when in relation to England rugby... Even depth of talent...
Which of the current England players would've made the 2003 team? Would you even have picked Itoje over Johnson or Kay? Youngs for Dawson? Any backline player over Tindal or Robinson? Any hooker over Thompson? Any of the current loosies over Hill, Back or D-how do you spell it?
Let's be clear, England has precious little talent and what Jones achieved with them is miraculous.
Even worse than the talent situation, who are the great characters in this team? That's why this present team can lose a match from almost any lead and is not known for come-from-behind victories...
Don't fool yourself, there's more talent in the average South African slum or Pacific mini-island than amongst the thousands of pro English players.
And, your best chance is to stick with Eddie.
I'm welsh and think Mike brown was 1 of english best player's. .....
Couldn’t even pass 😂 wingers had a field day when playing with Alex Goode, never got a sniff outside Brown. Selfish!
Let the chorus of whinging begin, any new coach brings changes. The over hyped player pool and idiocy of only playing guys that are based in England has to change. This all starts at the premiership level boring predictable games
I believe Scott Robertson (the worlds best rugby coach) wants to coach the All Blacks and not England as he is a proud kiwi, hes waiting for Foster the clown to move out of the way, Scott is ours and the English wont steal him 😛
Mike Brown 0:57 "I you compare to any other team in the world"! My gosh the English are full of them selves. That's always been their problem. The English think better of them self then what they actually are.
Where is this player talent? There is not one English player that will get a start for the Springboks, All Blacks, France or perhaps even Ireland. Jones got fantastic results with an average squad
Good riddance! England have quality players, and couches. And this is coming from a Boks supporter
our couches are the best!! seriously comfortable
Talk of England having more resources and paying more than other Unions seems to be a non-topic. At the top level, there seems to be little correlation between 'money in' and 'results out'. The RFU should rein in their spending at the elite level (which isn't providing a good ROI) and invest more in other things e.g. grassroots rugby, Sevens.
The pathways needs to be less posh schools.
@@iluvmusicqwe Rugby strives to be an inclusive sport and in my experience it is. The system should be getting the best players from whichever path they travel. This is the equitable way and gives England the best chance to succeed.
I'm sure Scott Robertson is a good coach and was relaxed coaching the Barbarians, but England needs to develop England coaches too. I can't understand why we would want to build the CV of a NZ provincial coach, to get the NZ coaching role he understandably wants, when we should be giving England coaches an opportunity who can be supported by coaches from anywhere.
Robinson hasn't been really tested on a international level , His Canterbury team are loaded with talent and it has always been that way , Eddie jones would of had the same track record coaching Canterbury As did Robinson did. the facts
A lot of the Canterbury players are also AB's.
Who is Razor 🪒🪒🪒?
He is the managing director of Gillette
Good to see so many clued up Rugby fans on this thread.
I like the idea of recruiting Eddie to the SA cause. . ...if he'll come? He has tasted RWC success with Rassie so who knows his psychology right now.
Jake White
We have played some brilliant rugby in the past under Eddie such as the tour to Australia when we won 3 0. We have gone backwards at a rapid rate and look like we're on the field trying to remember what drills in training we need to carry out. Hardly any free flowing thought or running rugby. Had to go.
I know Eddie Jones but who’s Razor..?
Scott Robertson...won super rugby with the Crusaders 5 years in a row.
Ex nz player and crusaders coach
@@Gilescowdemdem thanks…maybe Eddie has brought the team as far as he can and new blood is what is required.
@@hananedwards9274 cheers..he sounds solid.
England need a top experience coach with big CV not some rookie coach Jones had a good CV but if they go for Borthwick he's needs experience coaching assistant's to come in to help get the the best performances out of the players remember martin Johnson as England coach it didn't end well RFU have said they want Englishman and Borthwick fits the bill what a about Baxter from Exeter he might be a good choice let's hope who ever takes the job we get a coaches bounce 🏉🏉🏴🌹👍😁
Just read an interview with Borthwick about his approach to coaching. He really does come across as Jones 2.0, obsessed with detail, constantly analysing and adjusting to the extent that his nickname at Tigers is "the computer". My heart just sank. We don't need another would be scientist we need a free thinker who will encourage the players to perform with clear heads and self expression within a team context.
Not bitter at all!! May be right through
Do keep in mind: asking Mike Brown for essentially a reference on Eddie (post RFU dismissal and not to mention MB getting axed by EJ himself) is a bit like asking Jonny Depp whether he recommends his ex .....
Strange how his opinions align with so many fans who have never played the game at his level but can clearly see Jones has lost the plot.
You can only play with the cards dealt to you.
Maybe, just maybe, England are a bit light on the talent side at the moment? Average playmakers with slow distribution , no one with any significant pace, modest loose forwards and a below par front row… perhaps Eddie has done more with this team than anyone else could possibly do🤷♂️
Yeah, we got great handling props that aren't great scrummagers, EJ refused to pick a decent scavenger like Earl or Willis, Billy V has been out of international form for years, Smithy has been shackled, Faz ain't a 12, Manu is on about 70%, Nowell is too slow for a test wing, May is out of form. New blood required... from somewhere!
I think you’re right perhaps we are light on talent but there are players who looked to have talent or should I say potential just didn’t get a look in under EJ and if they did were the first to be jettisoned when things didn’t go right.
Fair point but funny how Leicester were complete shite for a few years and then Borthwick went there and hey presto
Anonymous player survey? I hate chicken management who ask the team members if their boss is up to scratch, laying all the responsibility two levels down from where it belongs. What happens to real men, many of them ex rugby players, when they become part of our national unions? They all seem to have troubles with testicular fortitude.
The best leaders are happy for their teams to be asked that question. It’s the ultimate test
@@IverKnackerov Maybe so. But It's not the team's job. It's the manager's job to assess the performance of their employees. It's not the employees' job to assess the performance of their manager. If I assess my manager as deficient, I go work for someone else. See the Harvard Business School research entitled "People Leave Bad Managers ... "
Jones was good at press conferences, rugby coaching not so much.
Eddie Jones is fuckin intense. I know some staff that bailed on England recently because they just couldn't cope being on call 24/7 and his relentless nature. That does get you so far. There is a time and place for it. But ultimately to win a word cup ya need more that strategy and the rub of the green. You need a spirit / culture that enables players to really show up for one another - to sacrifice for the extra millimeter. Culture empowers players to deliver on that and Razor has the key that unlocks that last little bit required from players.
Who is Razor?
Remind me when England has a losing streak with Robertson and you are calling for his head.
@@Quinefan Scot Robertson, Crusaders head coach.
Really respect Mike brown as a player but didn’t enjoy his thoughts here. They are his opinion and he is entitled too that.however, I’m not in agreement with a lot of what he said. He hasn’t been in the squad for some
Time. However, he was in the squad and does know many of the players…. Therefore to conclude, respect his opinion. From what I can see I disagree. But I Am on an armchair having a guiness from the outside. Love the pod !!!!
Not sure Mike Brown can be objective about Eddie Jones, who dropped him after a fight at a team "bonding" session.
So what? That happens at every club in the country week in, week out. Or, it should. Jones was just wanting to pin Brown because he wasn't one of his little yes men.
Is Mike brown In a really good position to make the statements he has here
He's in as good a position as anyone else who has played the game at the highest level.
Think when you have to explain you're not bitter you've kind of lost the conversation before uttering a word Mike! Eddie's dismissal is one hell of a call 10 months out from a WC. He is a coach that plans for the WC and peaks for them consistently, NO WC winning team does well 12 months out from a WC, to best of my knowledge only 1 team in the history of the WC has won their domestic title, 6N/TRC before the WC. To cut him this close is and says more about internal wrangling with the Rugby Union and not Eddie’s ability to get England to a WC and be successful...
Eddie Jones focused on the World Cup as the place he should be judged on because he knew that England would avoid the 4 best teams (France, Ire, SA and NZ) till the semi-final, when it becomes a lottery anyway and those 4 teams would be more mentally and physically exhausted. He could then claim it was a success whatever happens. England will make the semi-final of the World Cup irrespective of who is in charge.
@@trenchantinsightno doubting that the draw was kind to England but WC's are a lottery no matter what when it comes to KO phases. Eddie's record at WC's is unquestionable as an Irish supporter looking in it's amazing that they’ve pulled the carpet now, if they were gonna do it it should have been done 2021. It’s England’s biggest achilles' heel and you do it to yourselves in ALL sports. OVER ESTIMATE yourselves. Eddie got you to a final last time… but hey England heading in to the WC without a proven Head Coach damn cheers for the early Christmas present!
@@joelyons886 England have been drifting backwards at an increasing rate for 2 years at least and Eddie Jones gave the impression he couldn't stop it and more than that, that couldn't care less at all, which can't have helped and was a bit insulting. He should have been shown the door a year ago (or after the last world cup - part of the normal cycle). There are fundamental problems with the RFU, but Eddie Jones was part of that too and I think you will see a much better England side soon. For the playing pool and money English rugby has, the results (and especially performance) on the pitch have been very shoddy. Whether it is in time for the World Cup, we'll see, but I'm very happy to see him packing his bags.
@@joelyons886 as an Irishman it probably won't be your sport, but England turned round their cricket team's performance in all formats extremely quickly across all formats. Sometimes it just takes a change of mentality and a bit of freshness. Can't wait for the Six Nations now, should be even better than normal as a competition
@@trenchantinsight love cricket and to be fair it's growth over the past 10 year in Ireland has been massive. Quite a few schools play it and we have produced some quality players... even some that ended up playing for you lot! England though always had highs n lows in Cricket but you are spot on the rise of the game across all facists of it be that 20/20, test what ever has been bloody impressive. Still think Eddie was cut too soon and B will have an easy enough run to the semi's in the WC so the real presure won't hit till 2024 when you tour NZ... Maybe that's why England are pushing for a max 2 Test Series than the 3...
no they don’t have the greatest talent pool!
on the basis of what evidence you say that?
english got more inherent talent than … hum … who? … ahh … nothing coming to mind so far …
Brown saying that England have the best talent tells you exactly what's wrong with English rugby. Not one English player will make a world XV but that arrogance within English rugby remains. Curry could when on top of his game but he currently isn't anywhere near his best. They sure do overrate their own ability and are deluding themselves. The fact is currently they have an average bunch of players, not saying that Jones got the best out of them but I don't think a new coach will perform miracles with the talent available.
Exactly. Delusional thinking. As per usual. The superiority complex.
This
many times the english ego is far bigger than their ability - the classic case was the 2015 RWC in their own country - what an embarrassment that tournament much have been for the team and their fans
I've seen Marcus Smith playing on the TV and he's a great fly half. I would hope he could develop into a world class internationalist.
At the time I felt Marcus should have been taken to the World Cup in Japan. I felt there was something very special about him and that his unpredictability could upset the opposition's apple cart if England were in a bind with 15 minutes to go and it was shit or bust time. As it happened the opportunity to try something radical against the Springboks was not available when it was required in the final and it was clear England were dead and buried. It is the opposite of McGeechan not hesitating to call up Guscott for the Lions when he only had one cap against Romania. Interestingly, Marcus only became a regular starter after the Lions had the audacity to call him up.
Would be a big mistake 😱. You would throw guys off. You will find yourself in a situation like ferrari with Mattia Binnotto fired him. He build something good there! He changed blame game culture so they sacked him now who is going to replace him ? You will change the whole dynamics of team in terms of staring 23. England look dangerous especially your young squad of guys coming threw.In a years time we would face those rookies we played against would be mature that played against us South Africa 🇿🇦. We never won all our games this year.We are working towards World Cup and so should you guys, stay on the road. Its too late to change system mate if you wanted to, it should have happened 3 years ago just after last world cup. Eddie Jones is World Class and can handle media to protect his players. He faced the most criticizing media around. If Eddie wasn't there Owen Farrell would be roasted and would not have known how to handle media.You guys can let him go...one less team for us to worry about in the world cup.
Good luck, you will need it in spades to succeed at RWC 2023
I get the impression that vibe around jones camps would just suck.
Old Brownie passing the bug here
Passing the BUCK?
When you watch the Scots hold the Calcutta cup 4 out of 5 years! Those poms must be hurting!!!
its hilarious how the english have so little faith in their own coaches that they always have to go to the SH to get their coaches - that is why nz is so good because they have the best coaches that all other teams want them to coach their team - i think razor is weighing up his options - his number one wish is to coach the abs and england will be his second option if that doesnt materalize - he probably needs to coach an o/s team to give him that experience before coaching the abs - i would like dave rennie or jimmy joseph as the abs future coaches as well - both great kiwi coaches
EJ was the first non-English coach in England's history.
@@mikebrazao1836 and that is the track it seems england is going down - have more faith in your home-grown coaches
@@bodybalanceU2 All of our home-grown best coaches are taken. Farrel with Ireland, Edwards with France etc.
They're gonna go for Borthwick, but it's too soon for me. Shaun Edwards is the guy. He's literally become the Brian Clough of England Rugby. So successful that appointing him is an admission of past failings for the RFU.
@@somersetfan1 Robertson/Farrel/Edwards would all be good but none of them will want the job due to various reasons.
Bad idea to fire Eddie
Highest win ratio of ANY English coach teams go thro dips better now than in a World Cup
Please God don’t take Razor from us! Let lightning strike and make Foster disappear!
Sounds to to me like a player that is desperate to get back into the England mix.
hasn’t he retired?
the english really overate their player depth
Get your own coach's and leave our ones alone
England have been playing awful rugby for over 2 years now. It is boringly predictable and if we cannot overwhelm our opponents physically we are buggered. Jones had multiple fresh starts and multiple coaching changes. The latter is the most telling. He has been in the job two years too long
Farrell is part of the fear factor he thinks he owns the team
lol Eddie has the best win rate out of all English coaches.
But a 73% win rate is similar to Laurie Mains and Foster the All blacks worst coaches. Henry and Hansen were 80 and 90% that's what England with the most resources of any country should be aspiring to.
This win % was declining rapidly in the last 3 years, this year it was under 50% lol . He was dining out on what he achieved from 16-19. Its regressed significantly.
Started high % and declined whereas Woodward GREW with the team to the pinnacle. Very big difference.
Pre and post world cup, big difference
So nice to know that the BOKS helped to boot Eddie, shame the small boks did so good against england. Bye eddie and all your excuses..........
Yeah yeah.....Razor.....everybody wants him....but England didn't get him. ...so they're talking about a pipe dream.....
Yup... RFU managed to bungle a meeting with Shaun Edwards, missed the boat on Gatland too.... a comedy of errors, some might say...
Didn’t get him or didn’t choose him ….
Marcus Smith and Owen Farrel? One on the field, one on his backside, as impact player. Buy a South African front row?
Foster is off after the RWC, so Razor will step up.
England has 40 million people? NZ has about 10% of that.
The player base in England is huge compared to NZ.
The england budget is overwhelmingly bigger than NZ.
I find it hard to believe the is no one born in england that can coach.
Scott is great.
But first loss and the journos would slaughter him.
Eddie is good, but it is not a good test to take a winning team and keep winning.
The real test is how one performs when losing.
And we all gonna lose occasionally.
I agree but all you SH fans overlook one very significant thing; Rugby is essentially a niche sport in England. The national game is soccer.
All the opinions you need from players is the voting they're doing with their feet as they shuffle to France. Playing for England is no longer attractive and future prospects like Umaga have left for a contract that will likely put him on the market again for Samoa once it's done.
RFU need to bring in central contracts asap. (they won't, of course).
They definitely don’t have the best 15, 23 or 35 man squad in world rugby Mike. Yes the talent spread across their clubs is brilliant but it’s all irrelevant when playing Eddie’s game plan.
exactly, once they put on the rose almost all of them play like amateurs!
Not liking this talk about Razor when he should be our coach, not Foster
It’s Karma come back to bite him,the wheel turns.