ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- SHARK provides a brief update on what we know about July's ONYX SHARK update and what he hopes we get from CoH3 in the future!
00:00 - 00:30 - Intro
00:31 - 04:28 - Infantry TTK Update
04:29 - 05:44 - Garrison Mechanics
05:45 - 11:49 - Faction Balance / New BGs
11:50 - 17:00 - Skill Planes / Loiter Fix - เกม
I would like to see QoL improvements for weapon teams. A toggle that stops them from moving/dismantling their gun if you (miss) move click but is overridden by ordering retreating, moving backwards or holding right click to change their facing. Also have retreat and move backward under a different key. As often you retreat units when you just want to move the vehicle in a group selection.
Oh yeah. That would be a huge change. Nothing worse than having MGs pack up and then unpack and repack over and over
Well put! I agree with everything. It would be nice to see some kind of AA and Aircraft rework. I would also be in favor of making the loiters cheaper but making them do way less damage. If you see red flares and don't move you will get absolutely obliterated by a Naval bombardment, zeroing arty, 155mm call in etc. and thats your punishment for not moving out of the red flare "Kill zone". But the loiters do almost the same amount of damage and you just can't dodge it. All the other air call ins I think are fine. Fragmentation bomb, carpet bombs, strafes are all in a good spot.
True its mostly the DAK loiter
Luftwaffe one is also super strong, plus it pins infantry. I think a full rework is necessary to maintain power but fix balance
Thanks for your thoughts! Some worthwhile considerations for sure. I think you're right about the semi-autos and bolt actions. Need more viability
Thanks for watching!
Very excited about the update
Me too. Even minor tweaks to change some things would be really nice
If we get some of this and a ranger fix I’m reinstalling. The game is good now but i had to take a break from fighting rangers.
Yeah. I know what you mean. You can beat them... If you build to deal with them from the start... But it can be exhausting over and over again
@@N7-SHARKthat only works if your playing a 1V1 but in the other modes is quite hard to do if multiple people use rangers. And if one of your teammates is having a hard time against them while your not. Then it’s over ones they decide to 2v1 you with their rangers against you
100% agree here. that's why i think they need to be behind more CPs. the early power spike is a lot to deal with and little micro advantages like that snowball quickly in team games.
in the same vein... my buddy @TurtleWar posted this video of 3 brit players spamming Stuarts. we survived, but barely...
th-cam.com/video/XVG7e2RT9h4/w-d-xo.html
ASC giving a P-51 counter loiter sounds like an awesome idea...first one free then additional ones start stepping up in cost like the ASC's repair station?
Maybe, or maybe it's low cost, but it is more effective if you call it pre loiter?
For USF I think the manpower economy needs to be dialed down big time…allies in general seem like they can throw away too many units and still stay in the game, it’s almost like ISC is the only option because the manpower cheats are far too good
Agree. It's a little aggressive, especially when it cuts down the reinforce cost of elite infantry.
I like strafes bombs and arty strikes for opening up the game and stopping turtles without the need for huge indirect investment but loiters feel very annoying, they close off the map and obviously the attaching outside the circle shouldnt be a thing
edit: I really like your suggestion of making it more like wargame but I feel you'd also need to add the option for non-doctrinal fighters (though maybe doctrines like air and sea or luftwaffe could give you better ones) if you want to keep a dynamic battle in the sky rather than just using it as an offmap like the game does now
yeah, agree... and i wonder about the implementation. could you call in an anti-air loiter, but it tells the other team so they know not to call their own loiter strafe for risk of it being wasted? kind of like the naval blockade to prevent capturing of points.
On loiters and AA, you did mention the discrepancy between Axis and Allied AA. Where Axis AA works well as a main combat unit within a composition, whereas Allied AA is a early game powerspike to cause bleed but will get smashed by higher tech vehicules and lack utility. For loiters, Axis again have the advantage with gun loiters since they instantly have results. Unlike the brit rocket loiter (which is powerful but requires slowing down the enemy or bad maneuvering from them to hit), they will get results and cause major damage right away and most of the time kill your tanks.
And that's not helped by Allied AA lacking. Now, I don't think USF M16 AA is that bad at shooting down loiters but it is ''out of the way'' so you might need to backtech to get it. Brit AA (CMP Polsten/Crusader AA) on the other end, need to get vet 1 and use the ''rapid fire'' ability in order to shoot down planes quick enough. Both don't fit as a main stay unit in a comp unlike the Axis AA, they'll likely stay back and maybe guard an artillery unit or something
I think a slight nerf on gun loiters and a buff to allied AA might be in order.
Yeah. And in this case with all the complexity I'd rather just see a re work. The idea is big, computer -driven set pieces might sound cool but takes away from high level play
i believe there is a rhino heavy tank destroyer in the files already for whermacht
i think so too... the Nashorn? which now that i think about it, probably translates to Rhino in German lol. but seems like an easy update to me!
@@N7-SHARK oh yeah thats the name :P
I like a lot of what you said but the axis cope in these comments is so real lol
It's wild that people can have such wildly different perspectives. I admit I'm probably flawed in my view too... I feel like Brits abuse me but I'm terrible at playing with them lol
Actually, I think the TTK with bolt action weapon is bad across the board, upping it DPS across the board would solve most of its problems perhaps a bit more towards the close ranges. Bolts weapon in theory is best short to longish mid range but in reality loses to every other type of weapon in the game, you even look at the Weber pistol and think maybe even that's better. This gives a bit more reward to picking off smg unit and more risk if the smg retreat. As for against lmg at least you get a trade a bit better for closing the gap. Long range with the bolt action might not seem like a problem but full cover to full cover or to a garrison is ridiculously slow. Rather then advantage out in the open, get a steeper damage buff at mid-close range and ignore cover a little bit for all other cases. We are talking 30-33 seconds to kill a model at 25 range, versus 2 seconds at close range with a smg since at that range cover is ignored along with the extreme damage. That why I think a damage buff is warranted, they have some sort of issue at all ranges.
I do feel smg really isn't that overpowered its just does a shocking amount of damage and instead should have less of an extreme damage curve near-mid maybe give it less damage but extend the range of fire a bit. Or not have cover be completely ignored might resolve many of the issues. Conversely, I feel people don't think lmg are less of a problem and even underpowered, they are lowkey OP. The move accuracy penalty and "no firing while on the move" clause is bait it meant to weaken it wipe potential, just pick the best cover within 35 range and do way more damage then a bolt at all ranges, alternatively in team game just have 2-3 lmg and 2-3 AT infantry and form a kill team pointing and clicking everything to death. Maybe give it a less then 1 move cool-down multiplier so it actually have a meaningful move penalty.
The thing that I do not like about garrison is that you can reposition your squad around in the garrison, its not very intuitive, it finicky game play and I think there are better ways to reward skill expression then a weird APM check. Reloading your MG at least feels like it make sense then your guys not picking the best position in the garrison. As for partially weakening leaving garrison perhaps we can get some partial damage on the last guys leaving it.
I feel with American right now its entirely warped around the ISC, most people would say it singlehandly upping USF win percentages. The immediate problem is the Munition Surplus, it should be disjointed from the ISC because right now your decision to go ISC begins at grenade tech or if you're going paratroopers. You get at least 1 grenade worth of muni discount from the Surplus per weapon upgrade so whether or not you can or cannot afford to throw more grenade depends on that tech. Either rework the cost of weapon upgrade or have Munition Surplus a baseline upgrade. Removing MS might make BAR more expensive but it might also mean your first double BAR hit sooner in the timing from the less strain of a research.
MSC effect comes too slow requiring you to get your first light vehicle minimum to have an impact and the fuel cost on the upgrade is too expensive for light, perhaps a few smaller manpower upgrades like the DAK for light vehicles would make it more attractive. If the half-tracks were somehow more viable particularly the AT half track which should deal at least 160 damage to be on par with every other AT, even Jaegar and zooks deal that much.
A side thing but the crazy thing about the DAK halftrack which is much more expensive, is that it not only a omni directional MG hitting at 45 range, it outranges hand AT and suppress with one volley. It also out-range light vehicle, kite them, have a decent chance to pen even from the front, and slow them down suppressing light vehicle. It 320 hp but you can immediately get +80 health to survive 3 AT shots. You need an open map but when it can do anything until medium hit the field. If the USF can have some of that power it would be nice.
It interesting that Gren keeps looking better, they are getting their upgrades way too quickly. The fact that they are worst rifleman with utility but is instantly equalize if not better with the officer quarters, get their heals, and also hits the MG and 2 engineers. The assault upgrade is basically a BAR upgrade light that hits sooner, they are too strong too quickly. RM only really get better after grenade package, heal tent, ISC, and then BAR upgrade which might need to be delayed if they have to deal with light vehicles. What I think is really keeping the WM down especially in Multiplayer is the weakness in their Tanks. The P4 is somewhat good against matildas but against USF looks tragic compare to the E8 and gets shut down by the Hellcats anyways. Really its Braumbar and Jaegars which loses in the very late game. DAK get P3 baseline because their P4 when called in with the DAK upgrade are just better. Their Tiger is easier to get and is baseline and is also better, self heals,faster and can capture territory too.
I think DAK lategame is fine because I pretty sure the super P4 call-ins are actually more practical but everyone just wants to play with the super Tiger, and they also have the Flak 36 mirroring the Brits and it does in fact quite impactful against the Heavies, grant, and the E8.They get to have the Tiger, F36, and Loiters in multiplayer. In team games the stats pretty clearly shows the across the bigger team game WM losing axis the game, and most likely its their Lategame. DAK issue has always been surviving the early game without bleeding too much manpower and Bergs are so good that somewhat possible.
Really solid analysis across the board. Two things I violently agree with:
1. MSC buffs were nice but not enough. You basically get it if you want 76mm shermans.
2. WM late game is entirely reliant on BG call ins. P4 is in a tough spot, but so are all generalist mediums, especially with boosts to infantry at. Might be worth removing damage cap and increasing AOE on units like 75mm Sherman, P3, and P4 so they don't have to be scared of a single squad with zooks or a shreck.
@@N7-SHARK Still, the P4>Sherman it not a bad tank a bit outgunned in team games. It better because it shoot faster 11 versus 9 shots per minute, have more guns, and a tighter spread, it anti infantry is shockingly high once you get close to sticky range. It gets a bit outgun in team game but if it had about +30 pen it'll be pretty busted. The faster attack speed mean it attack first and sometimes at all.
I would be very careful buffing the P4. At most maybe cost a cost reduction.
Also you really should try the DAK P4, it really good. 840 hp, 150 pen, better vision, vehicle radar, smoke,capture territory, faster movespeed, faster rotation, "Rapid fire", and self heal. You just need 1350 manpower of upgrades.
I enjoy the crusader as well, but it eats all your munition.
Gaustatori and PGrens are bloody invincible when charging rifle sections. In fact, for engineers, Gaustatori are ridiculous. They even straight up murder British 6 man commandos up close! I mean? wTF?
i feel your pain man... so many times i've seen these units charge a wide gap against a unit in cover and take negligible damage, and then you either have to retreat or immediately die. you see this with ranger pushes as well. at least with guastas and pgrens, they completely lack anti-vehicle, so they can be kited and countered with a humber or greyhound.
might be worth a relook at the damage of grenades and other abilities, since now some of these units have much higher health pools than was perhaps initially intended.
Nerf Dingo spam and Rangers and I'm happy. Also no units should be able to fire flamethrowers or rockets on the move, it's really dumb and too easy to use.
Yeahhhhhh, the running zooks are particularly egregious
Also. Axis Loiters that kill tanks, team weapons and infantry… AA is so ineffective against it. Maybe an AA button that makes the vehicle crap against infantry but murders planes and has a 2 minute cool down of something. But easy win buttons like loiters just suck
yeah. the general rule for abilities is that they need to 1 - be consistent, 2 - communicate effects clearly to the players, and 3 - have some sort of counter. this is why i think the axis loiters are out of whack... there's not a reasonable allied counter.
but i'm obviously also a huge fan of a general rework of the loiter abilities.
Thanks for the video! But no words about the dingo? What about Churchills, that can be built in large numbers whereas there is only one Tiger. What about 6 weapon slots for rangers? DAK inf is really weak and there is only Flak to counter op rangers
Ooooh yeah, you're right about the dingo. Probably needs an armor nerf so it's a little less oppressive, plus the withdraw and refit cheese.
I find churchills and matildas frustrating, but didn't have any good ideas for how to adjust.
I think rangers in team games play out very differently than in 1s, but if you lock them behind another CP or two they probably lose their insane power spike.
DAK infantry can be really good, and if they get a ttk boost like I talk about early in this video they probably become unstoppable...
Imagine if TTK would be like Blitzkrieg mod💀
Anyway, i hope new TTK will fix problems with rifleman and rangers spam, and make grenadiers more useful. Btw, i think Relic should nerf Chaffie tanks, because with ability "seek and destroy" couple of Chaffie and Grayhound's easy can destroy most of german units: Marders, Pz4's and etc. The truth is light vehicle is more impactful now rather than middle, like really, no one use shermans and crusaders. Another problem is rangers, they too OP with 6 slots for weapon and with 3 vets couldnt be supress, why so ? In 4 vs 4 they destroying everything. I still remember how my enemy USF using rangers with 6 bazookas and they destoyed all our team vehicle. And in the end, dont you think Dingo's gun is kinda op ? I played recently for Britain and Dingo ruin Werhmacht early game and can ruin DAK, because somehow Bran can penetrare front armor of 250's and MG's cant penetrate Dingo armor. And for Axis, i think Relic should nerf bunker spam... because its silly to see how 1/3 of map covered in bunkers
What is it like in the blitz mod?
@@N7-SHARK mod for first company of heroes with new TTK for infantry(very lethal) and new units, kinda like realistic CoH
ooooh yeah. i know CoH has tried to great a realistic environment, but the engagements have been a bit more forgiving for gameplay reasons. i'd be interested in seeing how they balance more lethal infantry engagements with the way vehicles operate currently.
Bombing run is also broken in team games on some maps at VP chokepoints. Also bombing run makes at gun counter for tank spam so flawed as you have to move them and just get run over. Off map things should be kinda support not game winning with pressing 1 button at the right time. Totally agree with skill planes so stupid.
He wasnt talking about bombing run lol
Yeah, I get the choke point thing. But at least the bombs don't move and rotate to hit units that are trying to dodge :)
As an American main , I never play rangers they are extremely easy to counter and I put it into play as both werhmchat and dak easily , it's skill gap countering rangers. It's a shame that people don't understand spamming rangers is throwing extremely hard and taxing.
there are definitely counters for rangers and there are definitely maps where they seem really powerful. i think if you left everything the same, a CP increase would prevent the most frustrating aspect of them for some players... basically, when they hit the field at 3 minutes and there's nothing available to deal with them.
@@N7-SHARK I guess it's my playstyle but I counter rangers with werhmchat usually around 4 minute mark in team games with stummel and usually by the 5 min mark in 1v1's , for dak it's just flakvering. Mind you I shoot and retreat out of range of rangers, and leave no path open for flanks as best as I can ofc. , mind you none of my tactics at all work against duo dingos there is really no early game counter to that strat unless I get lucky and they hit a mine of mine
@@N7-SHARK I feel like pushing rangers back even more cuts into their power scale because they have a great mid game presence if used properly, and late game? Unless they're three stars, they're getting eaten alive by Call ins tanks and support arty
Hello Shark !
Of course, many players wait this upgrade. "Unbalance armies" is the hallmark of CoH. But here they went a little too hard.
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On the gameplay of CoH3 :
- I am totally agree on your first point. Units "out of cover" need to be punished a little more, to stop "stupid" rush.
- "Early game" need to be longer. 5min (Specially UKF) ... This is just too short. 9min for all armies is a better timing, i think.
- Rebalance middle game timing. WM, specially, suffers a lot about that. Allied "middle game" vehicules fuel income (Humber 85 ; Stuart 115 ; Greyhound 115 ; Chaffee 130) German WM vehicules (Wirbelwind 160 ; Marder 140 ; StuG 150). With a equal fuel income, you have 23 by minute. So WM have "no choice" ... Win "early game" map control, or leave ... With the "Grenadier unit" as frontline unit, it is just a joke !
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US side :
- Seriously, US side have all you want to win. If you fail, it is your mistake (tactics, or skill, or both).
- US mortar vet 1 abilities is a "serial killer" ... Even best players of this game cannot prevent that, and save the focused unit. It must change (delay, or nerve), because you can loose a game at 7-8min, in 4s ...
- In "late game", Hellcat need a natural better percing armor (slightly). For the moment, this unit is not enough a danger for Brummbar, Panthers, and Tiger.
- MG Paratroopers units with 0 command point ... Just Stop that !!!!!!!
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UKF Side :
- Seriously, it is the same thing like US. I think it is little bit easier vs WM too, when it is equal vs DaK.
- The systematic upgrade in Boys on Riflemen makes this unit really too ineffective against infantry. But "Middle game" units come soon => No consequences !!!
- Humber come too soon with all special abilities and cost too low !
- Stuart come in a good time. But it cost too low fuel. A mass of 3-4 Stuarts solve all vehicules/Tanks WM problems ... That is not a serious work by the devs !
- Vs WM, UKF's "late game" is useless (if the WM have survived, in good condition ...). UKF have "no normal options" to finish the game in the "late game" => No Tank with a good percing armor vs Brummbar, Panthers, Tiger.
- But, with Prince Churchill ... WM have "no options" !
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DaK side :
- I am not a specialist of DaK. But "early game" is like a desert ...
- No MG, no mortar, no snipers options on early game...
- PzGrenadier cost 300 Manpowers ... with this efficiency ... 🤣
- Special mechanic combined forces of Dak is based on : Vehicule Buff infantries. But Halftrack 250 cost too many, for a really poor life and really poor efficiency So "DaK desert" during 6 first minutes !
- "Middle game" DaK => Power time ... But also too many options. DaK player can lose yourself, here.
- "Late game" DaK => All or nothing. Nothing on early game, All in middle game, nothing on "late game". Flak 88 is amazing ... But just for the very good players ... And forget that in 1v1 on Pachino and Semois (too many houses on center).
- Gaspadori charges ... Ok, it is fun and really efficient ( I think about Tightrope 😆). But it is a little bit violent.
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WM side :
- At equal level player (same skill, same tactic level, same mind game). This is the "worth side" you can choose.
- First free unit is the worth unit of the game : Pioneer. You loose every "match up" 1v1 unit with that. It need one more soldier (3 => 4), and, of course, reduce a little bit MP action on close combat, and adjust Manpower cost.
- Grenadier is also the worth infantry unit frontline ... I think it need a better life of each soldier (80 => 90) to rebalance that, or reduce Manpower cost, eventually.
- WM have "no options" vs an early game sniper ... Motocycle is unarmed ! You need to build a counter sniper ... But, build a sniper need 50s ... => No map control !
- Counter a persistent sniper need 221 build ... => T2 need no ATGun options ... Aouch ...
- Grenadier can be upgrade in Jager or PzGrenadier for 160 Manpower, and no experience point kept. Devs have just "smoked canabis" when he make that 🤣 ... Need to be rework that => Experience keep, upgrade Jager (just 60 Manpowers), upgrade PzGrenadier (80 Manpowers) !!!
- WM's "Middle game" is like a desert ... 221 (T2) or Halftrack (T3) !!!
- WM's "Middle game" counter vehicule : I can write a two-page story on it. (PzSchreck 90 ammos, and -10m range shoot vs vehicules ; 41 canon on 221 can counter everything ... but everything can counter it ... ; Stummel efficient between 5 and 7min ... After that, you can loose it at all time ; AA canon, you need x3 to be really efficient on a vehicule ... really boring tactic on a game like CoH ; Jager G43, not enough efficient on long range ; PzGrenadier ... lower than Fusilier BAR etc... ... ...)
- T2 & T3 upgrade => That’s not for a "middle game" ... That cost too many fuel. You use it for a "late game" in fact... A "late game" when you had a poor fuel income on early and mid game. Really difficult to finish with that. Pass T2 & T3 upgrade => on T4 ... Not really possible, you have use too many fuel to stay alive.
- Panzer IV is like a "Popcorn". Poor efficiency on infantry (specially in movements), Poor efficiency on Tank. On "late game", Everything counter this unit (snares, bazooka, canon, majority of type tank). Build a Panzer IV shoot yourself in the foot.
- Totally agree with you, Shark. WM need the Panther choice, with out a tank Doc. Panzer IV cannot work like an AT ! Or Panzer IV need to be rework on many things.
- WM need really to be rework ... Best Players of CoH3 begin to use some tactics what Devs and all players do not want to see => Full Pioneer on early game ... Full Coastal Reserve (with 1 commander Arty ) ... Full "8 Rad" calls with 3 ATGuns for a "late game" ... Just 3 T1 units before switch on "middle game" ... ...
Devs need to do something for WM side !!!🧐
There is a ton here, but I agree with your general balance changes... I know I would appreciate a slightly longer early game before vehicles dominate. I'm also frustrated by generalist units (Stuart comes to mind)... Game is more interesting when you have to have a balanced array of specialists.
Thanks for sharing... Looking forward to seeing what the devs do with the update!
The allies players cope is so great that they blame the axis players for the very thing their doing. Allieboos their hypocrisy never change. 🙄