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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- Some things just wrinkle faster than others! Welcome to MsMojo, and today we’re counting down our picks for the classic musicals that are particularly outdated. Our countdown includes musicals “South Pacific”, "The King and I", "The Music Man" and more! Which one of the musicals do you think has aged the worst? Let us know in the comments!
Check out these other musical videos:
Top 10 Fastest Broadway Songs EVER: • Top 10 Fastest Broadwa...
Top 10 Darkest & Creepiest Songs in Musicals: • Top 10 Darkest & Creep...
Top 10 Opening Songs from Broadway Musicals: • Top 10 Opening Songs f...
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#musicals #classic #agedbadly #outdated #myfairlady #broadway - บันเทิง
People need to chill and understand that’s part of the past, it’s not fair to judge something that happens 60 years or more ago under the today life standards. All these musicals were amazing with a lot of good content, and excellent talents. One day our current times will be under the microscope too.
Egg-zackly!
Agreed
Yes, but there are those now who would like to go back to those "good old days" that were really only good for rich white men.
Exactly what I logged in to comment! I took classes about the history of film & theater in school - you have to look at the period it was made in or depicting, not modern standards. Lots of the old musicals won a lot of awards & critical acclaim when they were released. The older films are part of the history of their art forms - just like other historical artifacts. Some are actually pretty good if you sit & watch them without 2024 goggles on! Old Hollywood films aren't alone in their depiction of the way life was at the time - foreign films have it too - lots of content is currently taboo because of the societal changes in the decades between making & now. Tv & film made nowadays isn't always true to the reality of period or historical topics & will probably be judged later for inaccurate history.
We've turned into a society that is offended by every little thing & some people just like to make noise until everyone knows their opinion. If you don't like messages older films or tv shows depict, don't watch them - stick with the unscripted crap that's everywhere nowadays & I am sure future generations will consider "reality" content obsolete & unacceptable later.
Exactly. We've become so weird with all this woke an politically correct stuff. It's not like any of those musicals had blackface or anything like that and some of them were and are based on actual people and events!
Uh, why exactly shouldn't a "Period Piece" accurately portray people of the period?
Exactly! They are true to their own social norms & so much has evolved since then. There's a nostalgic component to them too. What's next, stripping classic films of their awards? If you don't want to get a glimpse into 50+ year old movie making techniques, musical styles, societal norms, etc don't watch anything that was released in the past.
Hollywood seems to like recreating old films & there is usually a reason why the remakes aren't as beloved as the originals. Hopefully nobody goes back & "fixes" the original versions with today's technology!
@@hollyheikkinen4698 Sadly, it looks like Disney has started to do that.
@@kennethwayne6857 I guess I am torn about editing the Disney classics - kids won't pick up on the stuff that adults would, they will watch the movie & enjoy it without the social criticism adults notice. So much has changed in animation, films, special effects, etc in the last 50 years! I'm not sure editing out the 'bad' stuff from the originals seem unnecessary - they have the tools to reanimate the story & update it if they want to bring it up to today's standards. It will obviously make money even if they have to basically start over. Most Fairy Tales in history have problematic themes in today's views, so leave the classic versions alone & recreate it if it's necessary. I don't think using AI to fix the problem segments is a good idea (anything I have seen so far is noticeable) & it seems disrespectful to the voice actors, animators & everyone who worked on the original films! Plus, didn't the SAG- AFTRA strike & new contract
agreement solve the AI question?
It's a Miss Mojo list, so it's hardly to be taken seriously - all highly-opinionated, out of context, reactive and far too often poorly researched. Next ...
@@itsjohn2000 So right. They're responding to what they think people want.
I am really tired of people wilfully misinterpreting "Thank heaven for little girls." If you listen to the lyrics, he's thanking heaven for little girls because they GROW UP in the most delightful ways. He is not being a pedophile.
It's like the pop song, "be good to your daughters, who grow up to be mothers".
Yes! The song goes on to say "Those little eyes, so helpless and appealing/ One day will flash and send you crashing through the ceiling!" The singer (Honore Lachaille, uncle of Gaston, the film's hero) goes out with adult women - not children.
Exactly! It's only creepy if you've pre-decided that any movie/song older than 20 years old must be twisted.
Sometimes, truth is ugly. Funny Girl is based on a true story. She made the mistake of many intelligent, talented women of investing in an unworthy man. I mean, poet Sylvia Plath killed herself when she realized her husband, narcissist poet laureate Ted Hughes, would not leave his mistress for her.
Truth sometimes is ugly -- but Funny Girl warps Fannie Brice's story (including her relationship with Arnstein) so much that it edges over into fiction. The fact that one of Brice's sons was a producer of the stage version had a lot to do with it making her (quite interesting) life story into a cliched "Good Woman Loves the Wrong Man" tale. Plus the score (excepting "People" and "Don't Rain on My Parade") is pretty meh. The problem with Funny Girl isn't that it hasn't aged well; it's that it was never a very good musical to start -- it was a hit because of a great lead performance, but that was all it had really going for it.
I disagree about "South Pacific", particularly because of the song "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught", which is a bitter, painful condemnation of racism from an American character who's in love with a young Vietnamese woman. And the fact that Nellie, from the uber-white midwest, manages to overcome her own prejudices to lovingly embrace her mixed-race stepchildren at the end is a major and uplifting change for her character - perhaps even positively influencing a few members of the audience when the original play was new.
So you must really hate Jane Austen stories too. It's dangerous and misleading to look at these through a modern lens - that's how books get banned too. I disagree with most of the comments and criticisms you've made. West Side Story has "I Have a Love", Oliver has "As Long as he needs Me' - a gorgeous song that is a tribute to an abuser while the entire story is about training street kids to be criminals...the list goes on but a lot of these plot points opened people's eyes in their day, even though they were pure entertainment. Gigi was based on true stories and in the end she escaped her fate because she was a strong woman. I'd take any of these stories and lyrics over the hate filled, violent , misogynistic songs that are hits today.
Key words "aged poorly"
People often infantilize those times by suggesting folks didn't critique these musicals for their problematic content. People were not sitting ducks accepting things. They pushed back. There were plenty of people back then calling out the ignorant aspects of these musicals. The primary difference between then and now is the internet, which adds more voices and disseminates information quickly.
Totally disagree with your ideas. Even if they are not sanitised it opens up conversations about how things were. Looking back on today's movies in 50 years time will they be found to be excessively violet and lacking in ethics.
Well said, Sparky! I agree completely. This voice-over woman is displaying her intolerance and her quickness to judge (and to judge thoughtlessly). She should try thinking things through.
I have to agree. I grew up on these shows, and they are beloved not because of their social implications, but because of the beauty of the songs themselves. Today's music is not even worth listening to, and is more demeaning than these old pieces.
This definitely belongs on the list of MsMojo lists that didn't age well. And it's only 12 hours old. For one thing, not all of the bad issues in these movies were glamorized. Some of them were made to look... bad. What more do you want? To just avoid discussing them at all?
Is that the definition of 'irony'?
I 100% agree with you. I have my own personal feelings about some of the tropes displayed in the musicals listed but it was a different time.
@@freddie488Not that different. It is just that nowadays we have the internet, so everyone gets a voice in what they think about a topic. Back then no one but the publishers held the power to print or not print comments about these musicals and other works of art, and it their comment didn't fit what the editor didn't like it didn't get published.
I'm starting to think that there is a strong vibe of censorship in this video.
@@BlueSaphire70'Woke' is all about censorship.
@@kennethwayne6857 It sure is. 🙁
We've made a society in which forgiveness is now considered unacceptable. No wonder people have so much anxiety. If you make mistakes or let people see your flaws, you will only be known by those flaws. This video offers no room to accept characters who grow and change -- something that only happens awkwardly and with mistakes.
This video uses the term "excuses" instead of forgiveness. That's really telling. Forgiving someone is now considered making excuses for them?!
Blame woke weridos
That's where they missed the boat on Music Man: she doesn't just forgive him; she sees the (better) man he could be, influences him to become that man, and they fall in love when he does the right thing and becomes that man. That's timeless.
I don’t like the implication you all are making about South Pacific. Are you saying we can’t forgive people for their wrong attitudes, especially if they redeem and change themselves for the better, later? It looks to me like that’s what happens.
South Pacific could be replaced on this list by Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. It's the one Rodgers and Hammerstein that could probably be done today if it's approached with care. Also throwing out the musical that gave us "Carefully Taught" would be a crime.
She left out that a very underage girl (Liat) became the object of desire of an adult navy sailor. Considering that her family would marry her off because of the family's poverty and, it's just wrong on several levels.
@@The_Dudester it’s been so long since I’ve seen that musical, I couldn’t remember all the details, like that one, for instance.
@@The_Dudester Yes about the age problem, but I disagree with the poverty part. IIRC, Liat's mother, Bloody Mary, does a good business peddling things to US sailors, and offers to bring in all the money they need so Cable and Liat can "do what comes naturally" all the time.
@@What_Makes_Climate_Tick And the war lasted how many years? Bloody Mary knew that the war would last a short period, and then what?
Whereas I normally enjoy the insight of these lists, especially when it comes to musicals, but this list in particular drips of narrow mindedness like many contemporary commentaries on past artistic efforts in numerous genres. These are snapshots of the times and seeing them from that perspective actually says something about where we’ve come from and where we’ve gone. And besides the songs, “You have to be Carefully Taught” from South Pacific has lyrics that at the time were boar rocking and insightful.
Lt. Cable sings You've got to be carefully taught out of anger and frustration. He, too, like Nellie, is trying to let go of old prejudices and ways of thinking.
I love and watch all of these movies with the clear understanding that they were made in a different time. Doesn’t change the beauty of the music, the costumes and the sets.
These was made for the times. They will always be outdated to some new generations. You can’t change that fact.
Agreed!
So, in South Pacific, you leave no room for Nellie's character growth. How very boring.
Or the change in Siam with the young prince banning bowing to the king.
Or the change in Siam with the young prince banning bowing to the king.
@@hughmills442And you've got to be taught.
Yeah, and I thought (from the two stage productions I've seen; I don't think I've watched the film all the way through) Nellie was initially uncomfortable with Emile's son and daughter, not because they were mixed-race, but because she just didn't know that he had kids (because she doesn't first meet them until well into the show).
That's the problem with Puritans; they believe that no sin but theirs can ever be forgiven or repented. They must have a miserable time meeting all of the other Puritans they can't forgive in Hell.
Funny Girl, The King and I, and others were based on the lives of real people. And frankly, the current trend to shut down history because we've changed and it's "not acceptable" any more is frickin' annoying. Perhaps we should use even musicals as learning/teaching moments instead of banning them all together.
Exactly what some of my junior high and high school teachers did... I learned a great deal about the incidental and monumental realities of WWII through a free Saturday screening of "The Longest Day" provided for the entire eighth grade by my history teacher... KDM
I find this kind of "presentism" as appealing as fingernails on a chalkboard.
How about you leave the classics alone
I don't agree with many of these, but she was right on the money with My Fair Lady and Carousel. I've always hated these shows for the reasons she's mentioned.
Exactly!!! They don’t know how to view them
@@mista11sparkluh Henry Higgins is rude and dismissive with EVERYONE, not just Eliza. Including his own mother!
I've gotta wonder how 7 brides for 7 brothers didn't make this list ....talk about not aging well
That was #1 on my list!
You can forgive a lot with dancing that good.
10000000% Agree
Maybe they'll do a part 2.
Truth
Complaining that something that was created decades ago is “offensive” or “outdated” by today’s standards is pointless.
THANK YOU!
I don't even know what the point of this video is. We all know that these movies and all movies from the 40s 50s whatever reflect the society they were created in. These are some of my favorite movies. I love my fair lady and have loved it since I first thought when I was about four, I Love the music man, I love anything by lerner and leowe, I can overlook the flaws. Better that than unmitigated completely brutal violence and graphic sex scenes that require that you send your 6-year-old out of the room.
EXACTLY!
(I see the channel didn't
delete your post) I think
that my post will probably
be deleted BWAHAhaha!
🤣🤣
Couldn’t agree more!
It was offensive back then 🙄 but of course people don’t want to acknowledge that. Whether we are using standards back then and now, it was still wrong.
As with ALL of the arts, musicals need to be looked at contextually... You cannot simply dismiss them' as 'inappropriate' and 'outdated' .
Nothing non-physical ages poorly. People's perceptions do and can't seem to comprehend that "then" is just as important as "now" in every way.
OT, but I love your profile pic. Captain Marvel (the original, Fawcett version) is my favorite character.
Ok, one quick thing...Yul Brenner, no matter where he was born, he was half East Asian, and no eye tape here. If HE couldn't get that part, God knows which extremely white guy would have. Poor man was lucky to get work in spaghetti westerns and to be included in great movies like The Magnificent Seven and West World. No he wasn't Thai, but Mongolia is closer to Thailand than Southern California.
And if the real issue is with Yul Brynner, than the problem is with the casting, not the show. Personally I thought Yul Brynner was excellent.
@@howardadamkramer In 1956 ( the year I was born), Yul Brynner made 3 great films and won the oscar for Best Actor and completely deserved it, think about it, he was a fantastic man and talented as Hell!
@@scottmiller6495 I completely agree! Loved him in everything. My point is, if they didn't like Yul Brynner's casting, that shouldn't mean that the story was bad. Also, I grew up in NYC. I got to see him perform TKAI live at the Imperial Theater in one of his very last performance. I still have the program.
@@howardadamkramer Thank you for that, he did a performance in Philadelphia shortly before he passed and was still great! How about his stellar acting in the movie The Ten Commandments, nobody talks about it anymore, he was Superb! In fact The Ten Commandments should have won Best Picture of 1956, it was better than Around the world in 80 days!!!!!
OKR? Everyone kept saying he was Russian, but the Soviet Union at the time covered most of Central Asia and Mongolia was a Soviet satellite country, and Yul Brynner looks straight up Mongolian.
I eye rolled so many times in this video. Everything about this list was just so nit picky and stupid.
There's a big difference between the Isms in "Annie Get Your Gun" and the Ism in "South Pacific". For one thing, the characters in "South Pacific" are far more complex as is the music & lyrics. Also, as many commenters have pointed out, the characters all move past their initial prejudices, which doesn't seem to be the case in today's so-called Woke/MAGA society. But then "You Have to Be Carefully Taught."
Also, 'South Pacific' is about entirely fictional characters, and 'Annie Get Your Gun' completely butchers the story of real life people. Frank Butler was actually hugely supportive of Annie Oakley's talent and became her manager, instead of becoming a jealous manchild who has to be placated.
One of my all time favourite songs is “You have to be carefully taught”. Was appropriate then and even more today!
@@diannespalding6542 Wish you were wrong 🤗
@@gracehowell. I don't know why but "Annie Gets Your Gun' triggers me for all kinds of reasons. Exactly what you mentioned plus, the way MGM treated Judy when they forced her to do the movie then made a big deal about her being unfit....
Reba McEntire was supposed to be good in it; but then she was a fan of the real Annie Oakley and tried to bring some realism to the whole production.
@@11cabadgerI mean, the racist elements are very much problematic, but would've at least been realistic at the time. Maybe MsMojo should do a list of top 10 most inaccurate musical biopics of all time? 'Night and Day' would possibly top the list, along with 'Annie Get Your Gun'. Ooh, 'Calamity Jane' is so inaccurate, though...
So women no longer fall in love with unworthy men … yeah, right!
I don’t care how “problematic” yall label any of these, they’re classics for a reason and I adore them all wholeheartedly and will never stop singing those gorgeous songs! 🩵
No one said you can’t enjoy these musicals……
Those old films are better than these woke films that are far more 'problematic' demonizing one group to elevate another for their woke agendas.
Yt women stay blowing off sexism. It's weird, like Stepford Wife. Do you think it gets you brownie points?
@@fundifferent1 They misuse the sexism card over nothing, but never play it when it applies to me. Nothing is wrong these musical films.
In South Pacific, Watchmojo says that even though the lead actress has racist views, she grows and comes to terms with her leading man’s 2 half Polynesian children by the end of the story, but because she was born narrow minded, he shouldnt reward her with his time. So is that where we are in 2024? Condemning everyone who has faults EVEN IF they come to realize they are wrong? Thats mind blowing. I hope if I ever make mistakes, im not judged that harshly!
This list is a little like the criticism it levels at these musicals. Not everything said is wrong or self-righteous... just enough to be annoying. As far as my favorite musical on the list (I'm not a fan of all of them), The Music Man is about a smooth operator, true, but at the end of the film, he has changed and is willing to suffer the consequences of his actions if it means he can be with the woman he loves. As far as your eye roll at such a happy ending, if you're looking for realism I'd suggest something that doesn't have performers bursting into song at various plot points.
Exactly Marian motivates Hill to become a better man it's not like she up and joins him on the con circuit
Ms Mojo has a problem with character growth.
And the reason Marion changes her feelings about him is that she suddenly becomes aware of the positive influence Hill is having on the town, especially her little brother, despite knowing Hill is a fraud.
I can’t imagine a world without “Hello, Young Lovers” or “On the Street Where You Live.”
Okay, MsMojo, we get it! EVERY Rodgers and Hammerstein musical is problematic!
"The Sound of Music" wasn't listed (Thank God!).
@@disneyfan8178 Yup.
@@disneyfan8178if it had have been, I would have lost it
Yet. Give him time and he’ll find something wrong with it.@@disneyfan8178
seriously?! FUNNY GIRL is not only historically accurate for the 1920s - it reflects what Brice went through with her husband in real life.
My grandparents and I love to watch these musical movies. It brings good memories ❤.
Right!? I grew up in the 1970s & 1980s & watched a gazillion old musicals, westerns, etc with the older generations of my family who are no longer here to watch them with. I think about the time we spent together when I watch the films now or hear songs from them. Nostalgia goes a long way towards watching old the films without judging them with today's views. I don't worry about white actors portraying non white characters - nobody worried about male actors portraying everyone in Shakespeare's plays. It's entertainment & the way it was done at the time it was produced. Westerns open a whole other can of worms & they were on often in my house growing up - and musical westerns too.
My mom was a huge Elvis fan & I have watched his films a million times since I was a kid. We actually saw him at his last concert in our area before he died - I was 5 & remember the concert. I also grieved for him - someone I never met, but felt a strong connection with as a 5 year old. TV channels ran marathons of Elvis's films every year on his birthday & the anniversary of his death - I remember watching with my family twice a year, every year.
The King & I is one of my favorites - it doesn't matter if there's something someone else doesn't like about it, I still like it because of the nostalgia factor. I even have it on VHS (along with all of Elvis's films on VHS & DVD).
The topic is that they didn't age well, but on most you say, "this was never okay." If it was never okay, then someone should have spoken up decades ago. As for 'The Music Man', the story is that the guy is a scam artist who falls for the teacher and changes his ways in order to be with her. And the initial part where he badmouths a perfectly legitimate business and convinces everyone else that it's evil without one shred of evidence is more relevant today than ever.
Flaws aside, these musicals are timeless classics.
I enjoyed My Fair Lady and Music Man back in the 90's and they still seem good today. Same with The King and I, even when it scared me when the king whipped a girl when I saw it on stage with my family. I was surprised he didn't knowing the teacher was watching in the other versions
@@gianinabadami5341 Sweet. Same here
While I agree that rhe plots can be/are problematic, the scores are simply gorgeous and will live on forever. One can also say that "Oliver!" has problems regarding the abusive relationship between Nancy and Bill.
Abusive, and when Nancy stands up for Oliver and herself, and tries to get Oliver away, Bill kills her. Nevermind that she didn't 'peach', (betray him to the authorities).
And while it makes sense that we shouldn't portray abusive relationships as healthy, Nancy loving her Bill was not uncommon then, and still isn't now. The relationship isn't shown as good, and Bill is a frightening menace, so now as then, it serves as a cautionary tale. Get away from such a person, you deserve better, and there are kind people who will help. You see it more in the book, but it's there in the play too.
Wow, people were calling out Elvis for being a creep in the 60s? That's shockingly aged well.
I was gonna say, Conrad Birdie was basically a stand-in for Elvis Presley.
Apparently, you don’t believe in redemption arcs.
South Pacific - haven't you heard the song YOU HAVE TO BE TAUGHT TO HATE? Did you akip that part?
On this platform, everyone is entitled to establish their opinions. This video does not represent my opinions regarding these movies.
This compilation is brought to you by the same class of people who have recently declared Mary Poppins to be offensive.
Exactly!
I don't understand their issue with Mary Poppins. The story establishes that Mr. Banks runs a strict household and is not as involved with his children as he should be. So it is up to Mary Poppins to get the ball rolling to liven up the family atmosphere. It is actually Burt who gets the children to understand how hard their father works for them and gently pushes Mr. Banks to realize that he needs to get to know his children before it's too late. It's the kind of theme that hasn't aged, so I don't understand the problem.
@@suebob16
The "problem" is that Cancel-culture,
P.C., Woke, DEI culture believes that
it is the only culture (way of living) that
is correct!
Most people pushing the above agendas
are cultural Marxists who want to change
the culture of Western civilization. They
do this by changing what is perceived as
the cultural norms (i.e. Marxist theory's
Cultural hegemony) this results in endless
protests, Drag-Queen story hours at public
libraries, Gay-Pride Parades, etc,, etc.,
etc
The goal is to destroy Western Civilization
as we know it and to replace it with the
cultural Marxist's own idealized utopian
society.
@@suebob16 The Banks's neighbor uses the word "Hottentot," which the Wokesters have now decided is offensive. So the British movie board decided to change the rating from "U," which is the same as the American "G," to "PG."
Okay, so one day, probably sooner than you expect, "Hamilton" and "Wicked" are going to be considered creaky old chestnuts that the new geniuses will feel they need to improve to make them more "relevant." That's how it works: no matter how cool something is today, posterity will sneer.
I think it depends on “who lives, who dies, who tells your story.”
After all “we believe all sorts of things that aren’t true. We call it History.”
I've mixed emotions about your criticisms of some of the most iconic, world-wide favorite musicals. It's good to point out racism, misogyny, etc. But I saw many of these musicals growing up in the 1950s and love all of them. I saw strong women in an error when women were homemakers and powerless. I saw despicable men change character or suffer the consequences. I learned that you've got to be taught. And I do thank heaven for little girls. Not because they are girls. Because they grow up as women to love. Without one, you don't have the other. Both must be treated with dignity. Gigi holds out for marriage and gets it.
One musical you left out, maybe because it wasn't made into a movie, was The Most Happy Fella. In that musical, Tony was way older than Rosabella, similar to the age difference in South Pacific. The Most Happy Fella was my first and possibly favorite Broadway show. My mother took me to see it.
My white sister from a white family was happily married for years to a wonderful black man who was 20 years older than her. They were married for years until his death. Another sister married a man over 20 years older than herself. Also happily married for years until he died.
When you denigrate the age difference in partners, my experience finds that problematic.
I understand that the culture of the past seeped into the musicals (and plays, and TV, and at work and at home, etc.), of the past, but the musicals you've mentioned mostly tried to move the needle to a better world. They certainly helped inspire me to honor strong women and not discriminate.
Also, I'm able to love a good Cinderella story and appreciate strong women at the same time. A man using wealth or position to control a poor woman is one thing. But having wealth or position and falling in love with a poor woman - what's wrong with that? In many sites, the man hides his wealth to be sure the woman loves him and not his money.
My mother became a widow at 35 in 1950, never remarried, and raised five children by herself (with some help from her widowed mother and the local church). My three sisters all grew up to be strong women like their mother.
My mom and I liked musicals more than the others, but I never heard her criticize any of those musicals (or operas). And I doubt very much she was brainwashed by Leave It to Beaver.
Anyway, musicals may raise disturbing issues, but those that do are better than boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl. And they often teach lessons of love, struggle, humility, dignity and harmony. All with incredibly beautiful music.
Feminist women over use those ims over petty things, but women never call out sexism from women towards men.
@@the1magageneral323 I would not use absolutes like "never," but I do believe there are people who accept only one side of an argument. Failure to understand both sides of an argument sides does not help arriving at the truth.
@@alandombrow584 Except it is true. When has Feminists ever called sexism from women who hate men? The answer is never.
My Fair Lady may have punchable characters, but that's the point of the play! You cannot point out the problems of society if you do not show them.
How could you ignore the fact that Annie throws the contest because no man will love a woman who could beat him. Incredibly sexiest!
Especially because Annie and Frank were real people who were nothing like what is shown on stage. The "throwing" never happened. Pretty much the only thing the musical has in common with the real people are the names.
Honestly, every time you make a list like this I take it as a must see movies list jajaja
That says more about you than her.
I would've loved to see after Higgins asked Eliza "Where the devil are my slippers?" for Eliza to say "Have you looked up your bloomin' arse, you drunkin fool?"
That's more the way the original play did.
Haha, that would be awesome!
@@margaretforsey7763 I actually saw the abominable 2018 production, When Eliza boldly strode away, an entire coven cackled away. When I politely inquired how Eliza was going to repay the months and months of free elocution lessons she had received, which had transformed her life, or the free room and board, they were speechless, and then indignant. The point, of course, is that Eliza and Higgins have fallen rather deeply in love, and the inquiry about slippers is his way of inviting her into his world. Perish the thought of a little common sense.
@@FrankDudleyBerryJr 🥔
Bernard Shaw did not give the slipper ending. It was HOLLYWOOD that damaged the script by wanting to make it a "happily ever after" to suit US tastes. If you read the prologue to Pygmalion you can find what the insightful Mr Shaw thought about the future of Eliza.
First and foremost, these are works of art. They aren't expected to influence poeple to behave less well than we expect people to behave nowadays. SIt back, realize they are of thier time, and enjoy the beauty that is still the majority of ALL the productions you want to suggest we dismiss.
Taking any piece of entertainment from the past and using current attitudes to judge it is bound to make you tired, and unlikely to be productive.
If you aren't a raving, woke fool, then none of the past is a problem. Because you will understand that as humanity grows and learns standards change. We learn from the past, so throwing out anything slightly offensive means you never learn to be better.
King and I was not created by Rogers and Hammerstein as much as "Adapted" by them. They wrote a script and music, but this was based off "Anna and the King of Siam". While the sources are questionable, it was at least confirmed that "a white English woman" went to teach English to the children of the King of Siam. How is that "aged poorly" or is it just popular to say that?
What is considered public entertainment changes with social attitudes. Feeding Christans to lions was an attraction as were public executions and floggings. What this video is doing is akin to looking at a picture of your grandparents and shaming them for not being stylish or edgy. The idea that all musicals should become like Hamilton is enough to make me shudder. Give it a break and enjoy the brillance of the music.
Forty years from now, Hamilton will top many a list of bad plays or musicals or whatever. Today's offerings will be the negatives in the future.
@@laurellane1721 You won't even have to wait that long. Even though it's portrayed by a cast of diverse ethnic backgrounds some people already complain that it still is basically a story of "old white men".
QUIT TRYING TO REWRITE HISTORY…………when were these movies made?????? You can’t change history, you learn from history!
Especially South Pacific, which presents a good message for today!
Also stop trying to create bad reboots of classic more people like than hate(because some woke losers on Twitter think so).
It is no different than what they do today. Look at the videos and movies today.
All my fav musicals, I know they haven’t aged well, but I still enjoy the music, costumes and try not to take most of them seriously! 🎶
Who EVER took musicals
seriously? Oh yes ... the
PC/woke brigade. {eyeroll}
If these musicals haven't aged well, someone failed to tell Broadway about it. There's currently a touring revival of 'Funny Girl' traveling across the country. There was also recent Broadway revival of 'The Music Man' with Hugh Jackman and Sutton Foster...and if you're staying with classic musicals, why are 'Guys and Dolls', 'On The Town' and 'Kiss Me Kate' included for their misogyny? They are a lot more vile in their attitude and treatment of women than the ten that are listed.
If MsMojo thinks these are bad , I'd hate to think how they feel about Shakespeare!
Amen
I saw My Fair Lady in the 80s and the ending stumped me even then
NONE of these movies were shocking in their time. People really did think and act that way. Women DID allow themselves to be harmed and demeaned. They picked men who weren't fine upstanding guys who respected them, and stayed. The alternatives weren't great either when they couldn't pay the bills without a man and were openly pitied without a guy.
It still goes on today. Many women today still put up with those kind of relationships. It isn't something that just happened in the past.
I was in bye bye birdie in summer camp back in either the summer of ,2003 -2004? and even then, we had to change the script around cuz it's a bit problematic. Hower the songs are fun I have to admit.
It was originally based on Elvis getting drafted in the 1950s - times were drastically different back then. Women couldn't even talk to their male doctors about their own health - their fathers or husbands talked to the doctor without including the woman at all. Women didn't learn how to balance a checkbook - it was the man's job. My grandparents were born in the 1910s, my parents were born in the mid 1930s, I was born in the 1970s & my son in the 1990s - there has been drastic changes in societal norms & pretty much every other aspect of life in the last 100 years, so there's definitely a difference between a 1950s film/play as it was written & performed then & how teachers/directors deal with the subject nowadays. I have seen Bye Bye Birdie on high school & community stages a few times & of course, the film multiple times. I remember seeing it performed at my school (my family has attended school there since my grandma through my son's generation) when I was in elementary school & my siblings were in high school in the early 1980s. I don't think anything was changed in the script from the movie at that time. I think the big difference is that the parents & grandparents of that time knew the film & experienced Elvis getting drafted. It was a big deal back then. Also, film & social standards have changed a lot since the 1980s. Today's teenagers probably don't know who Elvis was or understand what life was actually like for teenagers at the time.
@@hollyheikkinen4698 I know many kids today who know, who Elvis is lol
@@kristenrock7783 I know some too, but he isn't as well known by kids now as he was closer to his death. As the Boomer's have aged & the older generation is dying off, less people are being exposed to Elvis's music & films. It happens to the other classic film actors & musicians too.
@@hollyheikkinen4698 I know a fairly good Elvis impersonator who was born in 2004.
Get over yourself!
Just because these movies have some scenes or plot lines that would not work today it does not mean the whole movie needs to be trashed. Bye Bye Birdie had a ridiculous plot but wasn't Paul Lynde wonderful as an aggravated father? His song What's the Matter with Kids still works today. And that movie had one of Dick Van Dyke's first big roles .
The King and I is fun to watch. Yes Siam in the 1800's had a very restricted culture especially for women or people from the wrong social class, but that does not mean watching it it is not an enjoyable experience. Anna singing Getting to Know You to all the kings children is touching.
I still enjoy watching My Fair Lady. Henry Higgins is something of a jerk by today's standards but not necessarily by the standards of the early 20th century when the story takes place. Judging situations from the past by standards of today is Pastism and that's wrong.
Can't you just enjoy the movies for for what they are, musical extravaganzas, and not pick aparat every little thing about them?
I am correcting myself, Comparing past situations to the present is not called Pastism it is referred to as Presentism. My bad.
The most recent revival and tour of My Fair Lady did update the story. Eliza does walk out on Henry Higgins. It’s very satisfying!
If anyone reads the short story "Pygmalion" by George Bernard Shaw, he also ends the play/story with her walking out and there's an epilogue where he tells everyone off for wanting Higgins and Eliza to marry in the first place and lets the readers know that she has enough self respect to get married to Freddie, who loves and wants her just the way she is.
@@marieroberts5664 I love this!
I did want her to end up with Freddie.
@@marieroberts5664 It's not a short story. It's a play. Made into a movie in 1943 with Leslie Howard and Wendy Hiller.
Not the same thing but the portrayal of Karpathy is yet another problematic depiction of the "evil/weird" Eastern Europeans in western media. He's portrayed as a slovenly, sleazy con man. Of course the Hungarian gets portrayed like that. They literally call him dreadful
This list backfired mightily. It made me want to immediately go and re-watch half these shows. *pops blue-ray into player*
Miss Saigon and Madame Butterfly as both musicals have been criticized for having a white savior narrative and perpetuating negative stereotypes about Asian women.
Agreed, I did enjoy "Miss Saigon", but agree that it's a product of its time, and hasn't aged well by modern scrunity.
When I first heard about the plots for Miss Saigon and Madame Butterfly, my first thought was why not apply for a green card or a visa? I don't know about the immigration laws in Ireland but in America, you can either get a green card or a visa depending on your circumstances. Both stories made it look like Asian women would commit suicide over their American lovers leaving them. Unfortunately, the suicide rate among Asian women is staggering, especially in South Korea, but the trivialization of suicide is a no-go for modern storytelling.
I understand that the opera Madame Butterfly was based on a semi-biographical story. It's one of my favorite operas. Miss Saigon, also with beautiful music, just took the story and modernized it with the Vietnam War as background.
I was in the Navy and served in Vietnam (1967-1968). From my perspective, I see Miss Saigon as a story that could very much be real.
About 100,000 Amerasian children were born during the war from relationships between Vietnamese women and American soldiers. Many, if not most of them, were left behind in Vietnam as the soldiers returned home. Those children don't know who their fathers were.
@@alandombrow584I can see where you're coming from as I know that there are plenty of half-white, half-Vietnamese children who were left behind in Vietnam during the war. The criticism was that it made it look like Asian women would commit suicide for their American lovers leaving them in their home countries. Not to downplay mental illness in the Asian community, but it felt trivialized.
IMO, everyone in this thread makes valid points. I'm wondering why "Show boat" and "Hello Dolly!" didn't make the list. Surely they're as problematic as "Funny Girl".
I'm surprised but not surprised that Rogers & Hammerstein have taken the brunt of Ms Mojo's ire. I guess classic Disney musicals will get their own video later.
I am not a subscriber but if I was I would unsubscribe. My mother has introduced me to many of these musicals and more when I was younger. My mother presented them to me not just for the story but for the music that was composed, choreography and the actors/actresses involved. Now I’m a 27 year old female and this has appreciate music of all kinds. My mother is in her 60’s and finds a lot of hate in your list. In particular in South Pacific the main female actress did have issues with a different race but eventually she had a change of heart and mind and we think that should be emphasized more than how could he take her back. Noticing other people’s comments, msmojo, this list is very insensitive to certain age range of people like my mom. I don’t know why musical theater of any time period is so criticized. WHY SO MUCH HATE?
Msmojo clearly did not watch those films to understand the characters, just found some problems with it to issue hate with the film. There was entertainment in these films even the songs, far better than these woke films that they push to us. Some people use ism, problematic just to complain. Bye Bye Birdie is classic, they tried a 90s reboot and it does not hit the same vibe as the 1963 one.
The trope of a guy essentially stalking and pestering the girl until she likes him messed me up as a kid.
Still happening today. Leonard and Penny. Big Bang Theory.
You are not alone. It messed a lot of people up. Which is why there were so many problems back then in relationships. Men and women were taught to be so different from each other. Then they were expected to live 'happily ever after' together for the next 25+ years of marriage . Many were doomed. A truly happy marriage was very rare.
I know my father treated my mother badly and she wanted to divorce him. But, until 1974 where I live, if a woman divorced her husband he would get all of the money and assets. The wife was left with nothing and no way to feed her children. So my mother stayed for many years in a loveless marriage with a man who publicly ridiculed and embarrassed her. And he was worse in private. And everyone knew but no one did anything to help because "it wasn't their business ". Another message of the times.
@@jennym007
Projecting much?
Many people had happy
marriages throughout
human history -- Many
also had bad marriages.
It is the human condition.
@@rntypical
All of the relationships
in Big Bang Theory are
creepy!
@ stingrey1571
Were the films/plays your
main source of information
about life?
It's possible to acknowledge their flaws from time and enjoy them. Carousel is one I cant stand, but the others I enjoy a lot. Things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, and it's okay to discuss how some elements of these shows/movies reflected and perhaps perpetuated views that that should have been seen as wrong then, that we thankfully know better about now.
I love the score for "Carousel" but can't stand the book. The only show in this list I hate is "Gigi." The book is bad, but I also just don't like the music
@@LaLayla99Carousel, I agree with completely. Gigi, I can't get through. The love interest whining about how boring everything is bugs me too much. Like, there's a difference between a character that's going through emotional trouble and burnt out and someone that just doesn't like anything
This list is what happens when you have to continually crank out "content."
South Pacific tackled the problem of racism head on. Maybe you should listen to song "Carefully Taught". It's in the musical South Pacific.
And, yes, I gave this list a thumb's down!
7 brides for 7 brothers could have made a spot also
I was waiting for this one lol
The rape of the sobbing women.
One of my all time favourites 😉
I disagree vehemently! These are all my favorites. They need to be accepted and understood in the time frame depicted of in which the show was written. I usually agree with your lists but this one left me angry. These are classics.
It’s like you missed the point entirely in each story. You want them written in synch with todays sensititivities.
I've always hated my fair lady, Higgins is such a POS
OK Boomer 😂
@@Kap00rwith2os yup. I’m 70 yrs old. Thank you for the title.
I agree with you! When watching these, you just had to understand the times. I still love these classics no matter what this video says.
The whole point in film is that it captures a moment in time. That includes the views and sensibilities. It appalls me that we should try and judge them against today’s standards and ‘updating’ them is ridiculous. Give us credit to understand that things were different then without sanitising or offering a disclaimer. I love these old films and we shouldn’t apologise for them. If we try and erase the past we will never learn from it.
I am surprised that Seven Brides For Seven Brothers (1954) is not on this list. The plot literally involves a bunch of brothers kidnapping a bunch of women from their homes to take them up to a snowed-in cabin. Supposedly, they ALL fall in love with each other by the end, but it's really troublesome.
A 13-minute video about 21st-century wokeness critiquing classic theatre and cinema.
7 Brides for 7 Brothers was one of my favorites when I was a kid. I watched it again recently and just kept thinking 'Oh no!" through the whole thing. I was expecting it to be on this list.
Seven Brides isn’t on the list because the woke feminist who hate everything successfully canceled that one a while ago. So, they’ve moved on. Which is what happens whenever you bend a knee to these people. Give in on one point and they come right back with 12 more things that simply have to go away forever because it clashes with their progressive world view. It never ends.
And even where there are some legitimate point, such as the portrayal of Native Americans in Annie, most of what the Ms Mojo crew complains about in this video is just, like Adam in Seven Brides, characters at the beginning of a growth arc.
I see you are still at the beginning of your growth arc. @@DirigoDuke
I adore the barnyard dance scene. But I don’t see how anyone can say the Rape of the Sabine Women is necessary.
I love the dancing and singing but the story is problematic. @@jonnarobinson7541
You're right on about most of these... but the read on "Music Man" is way off. Beneath its Main Street, USA veneer, Music Man is wised-up and way ahead of its time. Marian is refusing to be slut-shamed over rumors that she had a thing with Miser Madison (not to mention a strong subtext that her "brother" Winthrop might be her child out of wedlock). Harold Hill only gets away with his con because of the vanity and small-mindedness of the folks of River City, until he realizes he's just as deluded as they are. He stops trying to take advantage of Marian as "the sadder but wiser girl" and actually becomes the bandleader he pretended to be. Whatever Marian is, she is not a traditional musical ingenue: she's an idealist, but she also has everyone's number, and she's not who people take her for. Besides, the show is just plain fun.
But yeah, Carousel is pretty screwed up.
I was shocked to see Funny Girl on here. It’s a classic. I had plans to watch it tomorrow! And I’ll love it.
What about the racism in Thoroughly Modern Millie? I recently rewatched with my Mum and it was utterly painful!
I was hoping that "Oklahoma!" would make this list, and you didn't disappoint. While it was one of the most iconic musicals, many aspects seem dated now, namely Curly talking Jud into killing himself, all so that he won't be around to ask Laurey out, Ado Annie slut shaming herself, and Curly getting away with accidentally killing Jud at the end.
Would you say the same about
the great operas?
@@here_we_go_again2571 The operas need their own list, lol. La Boheme, with Mimi being dumped by her boyfriend because she's sick but he doesn't actually think to warn her that she's dying or encourage her to go to the doctor. Or the whole mess of Il Trovatore. Or La Traviata.
"Oklahoma" was one of the few shows on this list that I agreed with, but they left out the most problematic part, which is exactly what you said. How the heck did they not bring up Curly's "brilliant" plan to convince Judd to commit suicide?
Almost all of Audri Hepburn's movies. The age differences are jaw-dropping.
South Pacific is against racism, Funny Girl is about a phenomenally successful woman who wasn't the only one to ever choose the wrong husband.
Using this logic, MsMojo would probably say “The Prince of Egypt” should be on this list… no room for “thinking in time.”
Let me preface my remarks by saying that I do not disagree with your top 10 but the scores for these musicals are absolutely gorgeous, and will remain evergreen. Now, the storylines and subjects themselves are absolutely dated, which happens. Guys & Dolls for example, terrific score, really outdated & implausible story. For me growing up as a kid in New York City, I think the cringiest story for me will always be Gigi. My mother explained to me exactly what a courtesan was by citing the Gabor sisters & their mother as examples. Gigi is the worst for me. I’ve never liked the depiction of developing a adolescent courtesan, although it was a reality for many & it’s always made me extremely uncomfortable.
Flawed people making bad decisions is the essence of good drama. The point of this video is stupid beyond belief.
Abuse isn't forgivable, true, but an abuser who seeks help and changes IS forgivable.
The thing about the elements of these stories that have aged poorly is that they are learning opportunties; they show us bad behavior and thoughts of the past, as well as let us get a sense of how far we've come, as well as how far we have to go. My grandmother LOVED musicals and she taught me a lot while watching them. As an example, the first time I was aware of racism, was my grandmother explaining plot points to me in the musical Showboat
" At what college do they give a degree for annoying women on the street like a Saturday night rowdy at a public dance hall?"
The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, but you got trouble, folks, right here in River City, trouble with a capital "T"
It's definitely Gigi, i think it's the one that's aged the worst. Happy sunday morning, Emily. Take care and God bless you, greetings from Colombia to you as well.
I have one thing that WOULDN'T age poorly and one that does with perfection. The WatchMojo channels should bring back the "For this list..." gag. I see no reason they removed it. Oh! Almost forgot! My account was blocked (after getting banned from commenting) for "Unusual activity." And bots still spam and TH-cam doesn't do anything but punish those that are against them. Because of this, I had to use another account (This account that belongs to someone else.) to comment.
@@jafodesrrhinuaaanndez1521 i also miss that gag
@@samuelcollantes1175 Are you goiung to say anything about the rest of me comment? I explained why I am using someone else's account Well, I hope you have a nice day as well. Thanks for crediting the narrators.
@@jafodesrrhinuaaanndez1521 Thanks for your comment as well
"Pygmalion" had a completely different ending than "My Fair Lady". Though, to be fair, it was originally changed for the film of the play.
I'm honestly surprised Mary Martin's Peter Pan didn't make this list, what with the whitest, blonde haired, blue eyed Tiger Lily singing 'Ugg-a-wugg'.
I am so beyond shocked the 7 Brides for 7 Brothers was not on this list. I still love it, but I can also say it's wild. Literally a whole song about kidnapping women in the middle
My Fair Lady will always be one of my favorite musicals; there's a reason some of these are classics. Despite some parts aging poorly, they have enduring characters and qualities you are ignoring.
Anyone who calls these things problematic, are them themselves a problematic person.
I think the relationship between Harold Hill and Marian was more complex than it originally seemed. I think Harold originally decided to pursue Marian because, as a piano teacher, she had a background in music and could easily expose him as a fraud - so he wanted her on his side, so to speak. (Of course, her extreme attractiveness made the job more pleasant for him :)) Marian despised Harold at first, and her feelings began to change only when she saw what a positive effect he had on her withdrawn little brother. She later told Harold that she'd done some library research and had known the truth about him since three days after his arrival - and Harold, after realizing that Marian kept his secret, decided to remain behind and face the consequences for his actions. (By that point another traveling salesman had informed the townspeople of Harold's chicanery.) As he told Marian's brother Winthrop, "I can't go, Winthrop. For the first time I got my foot caught in the door." Both Marian and Harold -and indeed, the whole town - changed for the better.
how about THE ROCKY HORROR SHOW? Once the novelty of the naughty bits had worn off, the songs and so forth were incredibly naff
God only know how the people years from now will look upon the judgemental stupidity of the people from our times.
I hope they get they get a good laugh from it all!
Favorite musicians:
The rocky horror picture show
Little shop of horrors
Cannibal: the musical
Phantom of the paradise
Sweeney todd
Repo the genetic opera
Let's do the Time Warp Again
Love the rocky horror picture show
What about Jerome Kern’s “Showboat”, surely that should be on this list.
Yes, there is a word in the opening number that wouldn't be used today and a lot of stereotypes among the supporting characters. But at the same time Julie's backstory and the racism she has to deal with seems rather progressive for a show for written in 1927.
Throw Kiss Me Kate on this list too while we're at it
I love this word "problematic". It's term that has overtones of the Catholic or Marxist inquisitor examining something to check if it is doctrinally correct. If you think a stage production has elements in it that you don't approve of, simple - don't watch it. Go away and let other people enjoy in peace.
I don't agree that these musicals are outdated. I do agree with Carousel being the worst only because of the attempted rape scene.
I still love these musicals. Enjoy watching history in a different way. Life was less anxiety producing in the 50s. 60s and 70s when I was growing up.