Thankyou, a brilliant video which brings back so many memories, as working on the Link was my first job after leaving college. The new tunnel, to the left at 18.14 was in hard rock so was blasted a metre at a time. Before each blast, the tunnel had to be checked to make sure no-one was in it, including on top of the concrete roof. As I was on top of it, they set the charge off! I was shaken, deafened and choking. They thought it was a huge joke. But they were a great bunch of blokes really, and of course I was fair game, first job etc. That was in the days when safety was in your head, and not entrusted to a flourescent jacket. Happy days.
@davenoble1207 it's a shame that part of the project was cancelled. We would have had a much better network if it went ahead. You & your colleagues did some great engineering on the loop link project
I am absolutely fascinated by this video. Such a thorough insight into the underground loop system that I love and grew up using. Though I think the advancements of the network, refurbished stations and new trains are great, I really miss the old school dark and dingy feel the whole system had back in the 2000’s. The old trains being suspended from service is a huge loss. I’ll never forget the sounds of the old trains. Everything down to the DC motor sound and the clicking sound the trains would make when stopped at each station. The older trains definitely had just a slightly mustier smell to them as well, compared to the new trains. I’ll also never forget the old platforms as well. I have memories going back to when I was a kid, attempting to sit on the old brown seats, integrated into the brown walls. I found it almost impossible to keep myself seated on those seats, as I remember I kept almost sliding off the seats because of the way they were designed. So much was covered in this video, all of which I find has been covered so thoroughly. But I have a couple of questions related to a couple of more minor things featured in the underground stations. First one is about the removal of 1 escalator at Hamilton Square and another at Lime Street. I’m wondering whether or not you know roughly when they were converted to become steps. Second question is about the big banks of the larger lifts at Hamilton Square and James Street. Not including the smaller lifts that go directly to the platforms. Looking at the floor plans/blueprints featured in this video, it looks as if both Hamilton Square and James Street each used to have 6 main lifts, instead of the 4 found in both stations today. Was this the case? Also were the main lifts at each of these stations refurbished to become self-operational around the time of the loop opening in the late 70’s? I ask this because I know they were originally operated by an operator, from looking at pictures of the old lifts at these stations. Also because I can’t find much information anywhere about the lifts at Hamilton Square and James Street. I know this is a very specific question which is a very minor part of the loop development, but my curiosity has got the better of me.
@NostalgiaFromMyChildhood thanks for the comments and questions. As you can probably tell by the video, I am also fascinated by our underground system. Am assuming the old trains you mention are the 507 & 508s. Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember the ones before them. The late 1930s built 502 & 503s. Indeed so much so that I am involved with the class 502 preservation trust restoring the last northern line 502. In regards to the escalators at Hamilton square and lime street. They haven't been removed, they were never installed in the first place. During the underground construction There was an economic crisis, (nothing changes), & cuts to public finances were ordered by the government in an attempt to save money. The situation at lime street was that the main escalator was to run all the way down to the platform. This was cut short to the situation we have today. It didn't save anything as where the landing is the rock was badly fractured. And it required costly stabilisation & support. Other example proposals lost were the Travelater (a flat escalator) to old hall street. And more significantly, the cancellation of the north & south outer loops. The original lifts at James St & Hamilton square were 3 sets of very large hydraulic operated lifts & one set of stairs to the surface booking hall. At James St, there's also the water st exit & at Hamilton Square, there is the shore Rd exit. Both are accessed by steep ramps. The shore Rd exit is now just used in emergencies. James St hydralic tower was destroyed by a bomb in 1941. The lifts at both stations were replaced by electric ones, though I need to research the exact date for that. If you're interested in the early days of the underground, there is two other videos that might interest you :- th-cam.com/video/wZdWkdw2V6c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=q6wudmkKMYjBV90u th-cam.com/video/5fdT0lMwJjk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BfLM_OFFZjlbhcfg
@@Merseywail That’s cool, It’ll be interesting to see the result of the restoration project when it’s finished. Interesting that the additional escalator wasn’t ever built, especially at Hamilton Square. Because there’s the 1 escalator that got built. But it fascinates me that they installed the rubber hand belts for the second escalator, but put normal stairs in place of where the moving escalator steps would have been installed, if they went ahead with the original plan. Yeah I’ve used the water Street exit a few times at James Street, I’m glad they’ve retained the old feel to it. I did actually have to use the exit to Shore Road at Hamilton Square once as well, that was last year, that was because all 4 lifts were out of service. That was fun. The travelator idea would have been cool to see if it went ahead. If it was to link up with Old Hall street, was it meant for Moorfields Station? It’s cool how the previous older lifts were so huge. So if there were originally 3 even bigger lifts, I’m guessing it would have been 2 where the 4 are now, then 1 in the abandoned shaft next to the stairwell. But yeah, seems like a bit of a mystery as to when they were first replaced to be electrified button-operated lifts. And yes I’ll check out those videos, thanks.
@NostalgiaFromMyChildhood the escalator at central, also suffers from the legacy of government funding cuts. The second set has always only one up escalator. It was widened during the station upgrades. I've yet to do the Shore Rd exit myself. Hopefully, I will.. the Travelater was to link Moorfields to old hall street.. I would think the James St lifts would have gone electric by 1942/3, seeing as the originals were destroyed. The class 502 restoration is coming on well. This video shows some of the latest work.th-cam.com/video/Av9DSO2P7bk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=XiEE-NHSECaVd8Eq The open day scheduled for this Sunday has unfortunately been cancelled by the organisers the Merseyside transport trust. It's very disappointing for us as we wanted to show the public the completed driving trailer
it amazes me the amount of engineering and people actually doing this, like Queensway tunnel biggest tube ever under the river. railways, rainford trials, whether people like realise or not we in Merseyside are sitting in the heart of the industrial revolution
I had to stop 5 mins in, because there is only one way to absorb such a wealth of information. That’s with a brew! Brilliant documentary, thank you for narrating it!
16:13 - the distinctive hum of the train leaving the station. When I hear that I can imagine myself back at Central Station waiting for the train. BTW: I always remember lots of walking at Central (possibly also at Moorfields) in order to get to the Lime Street platform and then waiting for the train. I decided it was usually faster for me to exit Central Station and walk the short distance to Lime Street.
@@RickDeckard6531 although part the reason for the loop was to make interchange easy, most prefer to walk to lime Street from central . Transfer via Moorfields requires going down two escalators and one passage way . Then at lime up two escalators & another passage way . The hum of the 507s & 508s has now been replaced by the whine of the 777s. I remember the deep hum, roar and groan of the 503s and 502s
Thanks Brian. Thousands use it daily & probably never give it a second thought. I did this video to showcase the engineering achievement of the 1970s extensions
@@Merseywail I remember when the work was taking place when exchange closed in 1977 and those class 507-8 looked so futuristic. I believe the 508 s originally started life in London, I personally carnt spot the difference.
@@brianfearn4246 the 508s were always meant for merseyside. On the southern the 455s weren't ready, & some equipment was to be reused. But the 4SUB units were in desperate need of replacement. So our 508s were "borrowed" by the Southern to cover until their units were ready. Hench the often misconception that we got second hand sets. In some ways they were stolen from us to help out the southern region
Excellent video. Merseyside got their act together and, in spite of Beeching and ‘roadbuilder’ Marples, managed to get a co-ordinated transport system.
Merseyside certainly did get its act together. It's a real shame that delays & cost overruns caused the scheme to be cut back. But we did get the main core of the system. Perhaps the outer loops would have been successful, sadly we will never know
Thanks David. I have been gathering info for a follow up. This will be more about the the lines that were to be included in the Merseyrail system , but were cut due to budget issues
I bet! e.g., I live somewhere where our nightlife is (was? [911 was said to have snuffed the peak, the zenith]) famed, yet there are signs in and around that valley there that'd make we here vanillas blush out of embarrassment
It's like a rabbit Warren. There was a perspex model of the station that was on display at the now gone large object museum . Hopefully it will be going on display again one day. It showed how the road tunnel passes over the Wirral line & Under the northern
Thanks Lee. It's a subject that has never really been covered much before. I thought I would attempt to give this transformation of Merseyside's railways a little more recognition. Ideally it hopefully might inspire someone to do a full story of this engineering achievement
@@Andrewjg_89 hopefully I will be on the farewell tour & no doubt do some sort of video on the 507/8s. The 777s are likely to be with us shortly & I would like to do a video compering the three generation of units I have known. The 502 & 503s. The 507/8s & the 777s
Fantastic video. The tunnel boring machines used here, were also to the same design as those used to build the underground sections of the Tyne and Wear Metro. Also, the scene at Hamilton Square, with the 47, the battery locomotives are class 97/7s, converted from class 501 DC EMUs. They had large lead acid batteries in the former seating bays. Two were allocated to Birkenhead, the other eight to London depots. They worked in pairs, back to back, however the Merseyside ones were unique, in that they retained their third rail power as well. The other eight were battery only. 97701/2 were the ones allocated to Birkenhead, all ten now scrapped.
Cheers for the the extra info. Didn't realise that the Dosco's were also used on the metro, another good system. If Manchester hadn't messed around with mono rail & other daft schemes they would have had a underground to. But then again they probably wouldn't have metrolink
Thanks. Although we sort of had a "underground" in Liverpool since 1886. The 1970s transformations turned one line into a true network by the additions & extensions
What an excellent and informative video, I left Liverpool in 1997 but this brings back happy memories of using Merseyrail and it is a great pity that due to money constraints the Edge Hill spur was never implemented, that would have been something special if it had been.
Thank you for this well researched and presented Video. A lot of time and effort was needed to created this video loved the overlaid then and now clips.
Thanks Terry, I find part of the enjoyment of doing these videos is in the research. I had some luck in being able to have access to the collection of one of the engineers involved with the project
That's a really interesting insight into the building of the network we know today. A well thought through video that packs a lot of information into a really concise story. A lot of TV documentary makers could learn a lesson or two here. That's an instant 'subscibe' from me!
Thank you. I will get round to doing the Southport to Lime street service and the earlier through steam coaches eventually. There's so much railway history around merseyside and the north West.
Absolutely fabulous mate. There is so little of this material about but perhaps there is in many peoples private collections. Let’s hope they all come to light. Please make more of these videos mate when and if you get any more material . Doing a great job in preserving our railway heritage history. Thank you
Cheers Chris. I do know someone who has a good archive of merseyside railway history. Hopefully I can persuade him that people are interested in these things. It would be great if he did a book or two. Hopefully the reaction to these videos might help that along
It's always been an interest of mine & hasn't been well documented. Hopefully the video has gone some way in correcting that. I will have to get round to doing the follow up, documenting the extra lines Merseyrail would have had, had the full plans come to fruition
Cracking video! I hadn’t realised the plans for the Loop had been made as far back as the early 1960’s. Fascinating information within the commentary. Bravo, Sir! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 PS: You have a like and a new subscriber!
Thanks for subscribing. Yes the plans for the loop date back to the 60s. We were lucky to get what we did considering the actions of Dr Beeching. The idea for the loop was first suggested as far back as 1914. But nothing came of it then. But they got there eventually.
I was often jealous of the tram systems in place in Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham etc...until it occurred to me that the Merseyrail network is quite a unique system of metro trains and while often criticized, it isn't too bad when all's said and done.
Love these videos … I don’t know why the material that you show hasn’t appeared before now… I’ll bet there are some interesting archives somewhere. I’d love to see some photos taken inside the ventilation tunnels of the Hamilton Square station around where the big holes in the roof of the platforms 1 and 2 section and also the drainage sections … I know that you showed part of the drainage system in one of your earlier videos.
There is a lot more out there. A lot of the pics in the video are from my own personal collection. These were from a dealer who still has a few hundred more but is keeping them in his own collection. More stuff came from one of the civil engineers involved with the project. I am trying to persuade him that there is interest out there & hopefully do a book on the building of the loop and link. I have seen pictures looking down the vent shafts to the tracks at Hamilton square but haven't seen them since.. I too would love to see more of the drainage tunnel. I know Simon Groom did a piece for Blue Peter back in 1986. He & the camera crew walked through the drainage heading. Water entering the tunnel from all angles
Great video! I'm looking forward to the video about the planned projects that never came to fruition! The unfinished and abandoned Edge Hill spur has such potential especially with all the developments at the university. What about a station serving the Anglican Cathedral on or near Duke Street (the site of the recently closed and demolished Chinese supermarket would have been perfect), the originally planned University station at Oxford Street, a new station at the Paddington Village development and maybe even another one at Wavertree Road. We dare to dream.
Thanks Alex. We are getting Liverpool Baltic, which is at the old St James site. I will be doing the lost merseyrail lines soon, a little more research to do first.
@@Merseywail Do you happen to know when we are getting Liverpool Baltic? They have been talking about it for years but I haven't been able to find out when work will begin? I completely understand about the research to be done before you can make the video! It's obvious from your content that you do a lot of research before you actually put a video together. I really appreciate the effort! I loved the Merseyrail before I saw your videos but afterwards my admiration for the whole system has really shot up!
@@alexscott1257 am not sure myself about time scales for the openings of Liverpool Baltic, there has been a cgi video of the planned station. From experience, now its been announced, it could be within the next 5 years. Yes research can be time consuming, but also enjoyable. It often throws up things you never knew. th-cam.com/video/IETBR1SwzLc/w-d-xo.html
Alright mate maybe next week while the flight restrictions are on do a pub crawl around the Everton pubs around the City Centre there are quite a few now like the Denbigh Castle
An excellently presented and informative documentary. The major anomaly on the system is why the Northern Line does not connect to Lime Street. I fail to understand why there is no direct escalator access from the Lime Street mainline concourse into the Wirral Line? There is also the strange decision not to rename James Street station as 'Pier Head' especially as a subway connection across Strand Street from Mann Island into the platform access areas would be a major convenience to all. Finally, the decision not to make a direct connection to Liverpool Airport means that the two major transport hubs of the Inter City rail services and Air travel are unconnected by the Northern Line.
Thanks. There was an alternative plan, called the Horseshoe scheme, that would have connected the northern & wirral directly. Trains from Southport could have gone to Chester for example. This actually had better overall long term cost / benefit results. But as planning for the loop & link was well advanced, it was that which was cheaper in the short term. The lime Street to Concourse escalators were favored by British rail engineers. But city Council wanted a closer link to the bus station & civic centre. Unfortunately the council got there way. After it had been built that way the civic centre plans were cancelled. The problem with a link to the pier head is apart from tunneling in poor infilled ground with flooding issues. Is the rundown of both the ferry & buses that used to run from there. The transport authorities had planned to do away with the ferry altogether. The link to the airport was not seen as important at the time as it wasn't as busy as it now is. But the poor link to the airport is now a major omission
@@Merseywail Thank you for this. Ido not quite follow the lack of a subway entrance to James Street from Mann island. Surely the tunnels and platforms run under the Strand to Mann Island anyway?
@@uingaeoc3905 they do, but require constant & expensive pumping to keep them dry. The extra cost of the pumps contributed to the Mersey railway company being plunged into bankruptcy. That & operating steam underground. The cost / benefit for having a link to the pier head just isn't worth it
Whereabouts is the junction at 19:05? Which way is it facing? I thought I was familiar with the mersey underground, and I've travelled on it often enough but I don't recognise this junction. It looks like an older tunnel on the left with a newer one on the right.
The junction is at the top of Lord Street, just before the Queen Victoria monument. The tunnel on the left is the old mersey railway tunnel to Liverpool Central low level, now the northern line platforms. The one on the right is the end of the 1977 loop. Both are looking towards central. The tracks into the old tunnel are the stock interchange, linking Norham and wirral lines, and a short siding
@@Merseywail Yes, I realise now where it is. The left one leads up to "paradise" junction, "up the hill" at 1 in 27 where the original Wirral line service used to go after leaving James street's old platform on the far side, now not used. The right hand line goes up to the link line and the left one just terminates at a buffer stop, I've seen it on another video somewhere on here which was filmed from a train's cab. And the newer tunnel is where the current Wirral line trains emerge after leaving the loop. I was getting it mixed up with the reversing siding at Central low level but the newer tunnel is on the wrong side as there it's on the left.
What an excellent video. I was wondering if you have any footage of how they lowered the tunnel to the south of Central to align with the newly rebuilt underground Central. I have seen a photo where part of this lowered line encroaches the top portion of the Wapping tunnel
Thank you. I haven't any footage of the lowering of the trackbed, but I have seen a picture of the work. In the picture I have seen they used mechanical excavators to dig and chisel out the rock bed. I have seen a picture of it encroaching on the Wapping tunnel .
They didn't save any of the brown plastic cladding? Oh no, what a shame! I was really interested in the posters they found under Hamilton Square when they did the renovation
@04nbod no, non of the cladding was saved despite a request by liverpool museums for some examples. They had planned an exhibit featuring them to tell the story of merseyrail & the underground railway.
Not sure what parts you didn't know about. But most of this hasn't really been covered before. Hopefully this video has gone some way to bring to light the major engineering achievement of the Merseyrail underground
I wondered why you had to go up an escalator just to get in to Moorfields when I used it decades ago... now I know. seems like a unique 'feature' It was decades ago but that brown modular seating still looked dated - though I'm sure it looked incredibly futuristic in its day - bet they thought it would never go out of style when they were putting it in.
It seemed like a good idea at the time but people seldom used the sections that were built. The modular seats could have easily been the same Verona Green as the buses, but the architect specified the brown
Enjoyed watching your video. Its a pity they never built anything like this in Manchester. All we got was a mickey mouse tram done on the cheap, it's constantly breaking down and over run with crime.
Manchester came so close . I know some of the civil engineers of the loop/link were going to be involved with the Picc-Vic line before it was cancelled. I know in the early stages Manchester planner's couldn't make their minds up of what system to go with. Even toying with a mono-rail solution at one point. My opinion is if they got their act together sooner Manchester would now have a first class underground. th-cam.com/video/z9n0fyyWPIY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xaGaPQWqIsQvgbcb
Can't speak for the other cities but Manchester came very close to having an underground system like Merseyrail. Their system was the Picc- Vic scheme. They delayed making a decision on which way to go with things, including considering a mono rail at one point. Perhaps if they had got their act together they would have had a underground. Though it has to be said the Metrolink tram system has been a great success for them
@@Merseywail Ah Im with you mate, seems Manchester was close to having an Underground as its a very busy place. Seems with them delaying they missed out on the UG opportunity. Metrolink seems to be doing pretty well currently which is great. Also Nottingham does have disused Underground tunnels which should be transformed and used as a rail system. If you look up Trekking Exploration on YT and ALW Research you will see how they explore the disused tunnels.
I was allowed access to the collection of John Ryan, who was one of the head civil engineers on the Merseyrail project. I & others have suggested to him to do a book about the Merseyrail construction. But he is very modest about it all, and the achievements he & colleagues made.
I never even noticed that lol, it happens. Footage I had hoped to include but couldn't was from the old James Street power box, it had a guy announcing a cancellation back when the loop had just opened
Thanks. We were given access to a few of plans in preparation for a fundraising book for the preserved class 502 unit. ”Merseyrail 50 years of progress 1971 - 2021” . The plans belonging to one of the civil engineers involved with the project. We didn't use them in the book, but I got additional permission to use them in this video. We are hoping to get permission to add them to our archive material in due course. I also hope to persuade my 502 colleagues to do another fundraising book all about the building of Merseyrail, hopefully in time for it's 50 year anniversary.
Very informative video! Well in. :) If I can give some constructive criticism: when describing the specifics of places (eg: 19:29) or tunnels (eg: 4:42), it might be wise to show these on a standardised map, eg: google maps or alternatives. While the B-roll of these locations certainly is nice, it's only really useful if the viewer's been there often.
Thank you. It's one thing I hadn't considered, that people might not know the area. The maps used are the ones that were actually used on the project by the various civil engineers. One of whom kindly gave me permission to use them in the video. Indeed I had hoped to have sections where he described the various parts of the construction & its issues. He declined sadly, being very modest about the superb work he & his colleagues achieved
@@MerseywailEven if you knew the area, it's nice to also see it on the map, especially when several aspects build up over time and you see the network grow. Of course, the on-location B-roll has plenty of value, too. Those engineer's drawings can be hard to understand, being drawn for precision over clarity; trying to decipher them in real time was quite the trick. That's really all I could say with regards to improvements, you've got a talent for this!
@@Merseywail I'd hardly call them bad! With regards to the map situation, I'd take inspiration from how Rediscovering Lost Railways shows the paths railways took; of course, do it in your own way, and I'd also recommend _not_ taking inspiration from his far-too-frequent pleads for subscribers. By the way, if you ever decide to film on-location footage for the North Liverpool Extension Line (or "Liverpool Loop Line" for you blerts out there), get in touch, since I'd be happy to facilitate sharing anything I know, and I have a tripod and external camera mic you could borrow too!
@@caramelldansen2204 cheers again, the loop is going to be featured in the lost Merseyrail lines video. But will only feature those stations that would have been Merseyrail ones. As to how am going to film that section,I haven't decided yet. It can be a bit dodgy round certain sections
Very interesting, which class 47 was it at Hamilton Square?I remember the old Class 503s with the wooden panels and flickering lights, lots of memories travelling to see my Grandparents
Thanks. The 47 was 47190. One of the 503s was preserved for preservation, it was in storage at the Hornby warehouse in Margate, but I think it's since been moved out. A 502 unit (northern line) was also preserved & is undergoing restoration at the premises of the Merseyside transport trust in Burscough. A open day is being held there on 31 July. www.class502.org.uk/news-blog/2022/07/15/mtt-open-day-2022/
I have heard of them. I suspect they are thinking of the deep sump that was built by the mersey railway back in 1886. There is a similar one at shore Rd Birkenhead. There is also a short unused heading at Mann island that's partially flooded. The river tunnel has a drainage tunnel to extract the water entering the tunnel from the river and it runs downwards into the two sumps to be pumped out
Great work. I understood necessary works for same led to the demolition of the Cavern. Is this correct do you know? Additionally, when the new Cavern development was constructed, excavations revealed a large flooded tunnel (the surveyors explored it in a dinghy), which was mass filled. Could that have been a redundant rail or sewer network do you think ?
The link line passes through the site of the cavern yes. As for the flooded tunnel, there was a number of old well's that had to capped off. There's been lots about a underground river, but most likely its the drainage heading of the mersey railway. This has approximately 4000 gallons per hour entering the river tunnel
There was a DVD about merseyside electrics by “online video" but I don't think it featured the exchange to sandhills section. With it being on a viaduct for most of the way it would have been difficult for good footage
@@Merseywail I’m watching it now, although I see from the comments I’ve already commented, mine seems to be the first comment, thanks for the heads up, I’ll watch it fully again.
It is. It's hard to believe that something like Merseyrail was helped along by Marple. The cynical would point out that the various consultants & construction contractors were probably friends of his. I couldn't possibly comment.
It's not that Leonard Fairclough, though I think the character was on Corrie about the same time. This was a now gone construction firm of the same name en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Fairclough_%26_Son
What's very irritating about the new city centre stations is the lack of any provision for cyclists. The lifts are far too small for cycles (some stand their bikes vertically). I don't know if they even accommodate a mobility scooter. Even some wheelchairs with the occupier lying nearly flat wouldn't fit. The dangerous practice of taking cycles on the escalators is allowed (either officially or a 'blind eye' turned).
The provision for cycles in lifts is quite poor. I don't think it was considered when the system was designed in the early 70s. I can't see a wheelchair problem though. I regularly see disabled passengers using the underground stations, and that Will probably increase when the new trains come in. With their level access making travel for the disabled far easier
Thankyou, a brilliant video which brings back so many memories, as working on the Link was my first job after leaving college. The new tunnel, to the left at 18.14 was in hard rock so was blasted a metre at a time. Before each blast, the tunnel had to be checked to make sure no-one was in it, including on top of the concrete roof. As I was on top of it, they set the charge off! I was shaken, deafened and choking. They thought it was a huge joke. But they were a great bunch of blokes really, and of course I was fair game, first job etc. That was in the days when safety was in your head, and not entrusted to a flourescent jacket. Happy days.
@davenoble1207 it's a shame that part of the project was cancelled. We would have had a much better network if it went ahead. You & your colleagues did some great engineering on the loop link project
I am absolutely fascinated by this video. Such a thorough insight into the underground loop system that I love and grew up using.
Though I think the advancements of the network, refurbished stations and new trains are great, I really miss the old school dark and dingy feel the whole system had back in the 2000’s.
The old trains being suspended from service is a huge loss. I’ll never forget the sounds of the old trains. Everything down to the DC motor sound and the clicking sound the trains would make when stopped at each station. The older trains definitely had just a slightly mustier smell to them as well, compared to the new trains.
I’ll also never forget the old platforms as well. I have memories going back to when I was a kid, attempting to sit on the old brown seats, integrated into the brown walls. I found it almost impossible to keep myself seated on those seats, as I remember I kept almost sliding off the seats because of the way they were designed.
So much was covered in this video, all of which I find has been covered so thoroughly. But I have a couple of questions related to a couple of more minor things featured in the underground stations.
First one is about the removal of 1 escalator at Hamilton Square and another at Lime Street. I’m wondering whether or not you know roughly when they were converted to become steps.
Second question is about the big banks of the larger lifts at Hamilton Square and James Street. Not including the smaller lifts that go directly to the platforms. Looking at the floor plans/blueprints featured in this video, it looks as if both Hamilton Square and James Street each used to have 6 main lifts, instead of the 4 found in both stations today. Was this the case?
Also were the main lifts at each of these stations refurbished to become self-operational around the time of the loop opening in the late 70’s?
I ask this because I know they were originally operated by an operator, from looking at pictures of the old lifts at these stations. Also because I can’t find much information anywhere about the lifts at Hamilton Square and James Street.
I know this is a very specific question which is a very minor part of the loop development, but my curiosity has got the better of me.
@NostalgiaFromMyChildhood thanks for the comments and questions. As you can probably tell by the video, I am also fascinated by our underground system. Am assuming the old trains you mention are the 507 & 508s. Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember the ones before them. The late 1930s built 502 & 503s. Indeed so much so that I am involved with the class 502 preservation trust restoring the last northern line 502.
In regards to the escalators at Hamilton square and lime street. They haven't been removed, they were never installed in the first place. During the underground construction
There was an economic crisis, (nothing changes), & cuts to public finances were ordered by the government in an attempt to save money. The situation at lime street was that the main escalator was to run all the way down to the platform. This was cut short to the situation we have today. It didn't save anything as where the landing is the rock was badly fractured. And it required costly stabilisation & support.
Other example proposals lost were the Travelater (a flat escalator) to old hall street. And more significantly, the cancellation of the north & south outer loops.
The original lifts at James St & Hamilton square were 3 sets of very large hydraulic operated lifts & one set of stairs to the surface booking hall. At James St, there's also the water st exit & at Hamilton Square, there is the shore Rd exit. Both are accessed by steep ramps. The shore Rd exit is now just used in emergencies. James St hydralic tower was destroyed by a bomb in 1941. The lifts at both stations were replaced by electric ones, though I need to research the exact date for that.
If you're interested in the early days of the underground, there is two other videos that might interest you :- th-cam.com/video/wZdWkdw2V6c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=q6wudmkKMYjBV90u
th-cam.com/video/5fdT0lMwJjk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BfLM_OFFZjlbhcfg
@@Merseywail That’s cool, It’ll be interesting to see the result of the restoration project when it’s finished.
Interesting that the additional escalator wasn’t ever built, especially at Hamilton Square. Because there’s the 1 escalator that got built. But it fascinates me that they installed the rubber hand belts for the second escalator, but put normal stairs in place of where the moving escalator steps would have been installed, if they went ahead with the original plan.
Yeah I’ve used the water Street exit a few times at James Street, I’m glad they’ve retained the old feel to it. I did actually have to use the exit to Shore Road at Hamilton Square once as well, that was last year, that was because all 4 lifts were out of service. That was fun.
The travelator idea would have been cool to see if it went ahead. If it was to link up with Old Hall street, was it meant for Moorfields Station?
It’s cool how the previous older lifts were so huge. So if there were originally 3 even bigger lifts, I’m guessing it would have been 2 where the 4 are now, then 1 in the abandoned shaft next to the stairwell.
But yeah, seems like a bit of a mystery as to when they were first replaced to be electrified button-operated lifts.
And yes I’ll check out those videos, thanks.
@NostalgiaFromMyChildhood the escalator at central, also suffers from the legacy of government funding cuts. The second set has always only one up escalator. It was widened during the station upgrades. I've yet to do the Shore Rd exit myself. Hopefully, I will.. the Travelater was to link Moorfields to old hall street.. I would think the James St lifts would have gone electric by 1942/3, seeing as the originals were destroyed.
The class 502 restoration is coming on well. This video shows some of the latest work.th-cam.com/video/Av9DSO2P7bk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=XiEE-NHSECaVd8Eq
The open day scheduled for this Sunday has unfortunately been cancelled by the organisers the Merseyside transport trust. It's very disappointing for us as we wanted to show the public the completed driving trailer
@@Merseywail Thanks for the info, and it’s a shame that the open day got cancelled. Hopefully it will resurface.
it amazes me the amount of engineering and people actually doing this, like Queensway tunnel biggest tube ever under the river. railways, rainford trials, whether people like realise or not we in Merseyside are sitting in the heart of the industrial revolution
We certainly are at the centre. Many first & achievements have been centered of Merseyside. We need to celebrate our part in all this
I had to stop 5 mins in, because there is only one way to absorb such a wealth of information. That’s with a brew! Brilliant documentary, thank you for narrating it!
Thanks Chris. New microphone & getting the hang of audio editing have made the difference. Glad you enjoyed it
A very good and comprehensive account of the development of Merseyrail.
Cheers Tony, no doubt will bump into you now that shows are restarting
16:13 - the distinctive hum of the train leaving the station. When I hear that I can imagine myself back at Central Station waiting for the train. BTW: I always remember lots of walking at Central (possibly also at Moorfields) in order to get to the Lime Street platform and then waiting for the train. I decided it was usually faster for me to exit Central Station and walk the short distance to Lime Street.
@@RickDeckard6531 although part the reason for the loop was to make interchange easy, most prefer to walk to lime Street from central . Transfer via Moorfields requires going down two escalators and one passage way . Then at lime up two escalators & another passage way . The hum of the 507s & 508s has now been replaced by the whine of the 777s. I remember the deep hum, roar and groan of the 503s and 502s
Just been on the line today (and many times before) interesting to find out about the construction. A very good video.
@jeremywade9287 thanks. It's a good system. It's a shame it never reached its full potential & size. Unlikely That will ever happen now.
As a frequent user of the merseyrail network this video is fabulous.
Thanks Brian. Thousands use it daily & probably never give it a second thought. I did this video to showcase the engineering achievement of the 1970s extensions
@@Merseywail I remember when the work was taking place when exchange closed in 1977 and those class 507-8 looked so futuristic. I believe the 508 s originally started life in London, I personally carnt spot the difference.
@@brianfearn4246 the 508s were always meant for merseyside. On the southern the 455s weren't ready, & some equipment was to be reused. But the 4SUB units were in desperate need of replacement. So our 508s were "borrowed" by the Southern to cover until their units were ready. Hench the often misconception that we got second hand sets. In some ways they were stolen from us to help out the southern region
@@Merseywail that makes sense now and thanks again .
What a fascinating short documentary of the planning and construction of our great Merseyrail transport system, many thanks for posting .....
Thanks Alan, there is far more to it. Maybe one day a book could be done going into more detail than I can
Excellent video. Merseyside got their act together and, in spite of Beeching and ‘roadbuilder’ Marples, managed to get a co-ordinated transport system.
Merseyside certainly did get its act together. It's a real shame that delays & cost overruns caused the scheme to be cut back. But we did get the main core of the system. Perhaps the outer loops would have been successful, sadly we will never know
A great visual - audio account of the re-structuring - intergrating of our train system through the 1970s
Thanks David. I have been gathering info for a follow up. This will be more about the the lines that were to be included in the Merseyrail system , but were cut due to budget issues
wow...! I've always been fond of Liverpool, having visited there only once and as a child before any of this re-build...wow...!
Liverpool is a great city, with lots of history and culture
I bet! e.g., I live somewhere where our nightlife is (was? [911 was said to have snuffed the peak, the zenith]) famed, yet there are signs in and around that valley there that'd make we here vanillas blush out of embarrassment
Great video.Moorfields station always amazes me
It's like a rabbit Warren. There was a perspex model of the station that was on display at the now gone large object museum . Hopefully it will be going on display again one day. It showed how the road tunnel passes over the Wirral line & Under the northern
Really interesting! Thanks for putting together such an informative and easy to follow film.
Thanks Lee. It's a subject that has never really been covered much before. I thought I would attempt to give this transformation of Merseyside's railways a little more recognition. Ideally it hopefully might inspire someone to do a full story of this engineering achievement
Very interesting and documented well thank you.
Thanks Stephen I enjoy doing these & hopefully shedding new light on subjects
I used this network, to cross the Mersey. Very modern with helpful staff.
@@jackharrison6771 it is a popular and well used network
@@Merseywail It is that. I cant recall how often I/we used it.
This is a phenomenally interesting and well-made video! Thank you!
Thank you for the very kind comment glad you enjoyed it. It's enjoyable researching for these videos.
I do like the history of Merseyrail and the railway lines in and around Liverpool, The Wirral and Merseyside. Very good video 👍☺️
Cheers Andrew lots more planned
@@Merseywail Nice. Does that mean Class 777 as well whenever they do enter service and the farewell tour for Class 507 and Class 508 PEPs.
@@Andrewjg_89 hopefully I will be on the farewell tour & no doubt do some sort of video on the 507/8s. The 777s are likely to be with us shortly & I would like to do a video compering the three generation of units I have known. The 502 & 503s. The 507/8s & the 777s
@@Merseywail Indeed. 😊
Another fantastic video! Again learned a lot and really enjoyed it. Looking forward to the next instalment!
Cheers, one of the future videos will be of the lost lines & stations of Merseyrail. It was to be a much bigger network than we ended up with
Fantastic video. The tunnel boring machines used here, were also to the same design as those used to build the underground sections of the Tyne and Wear Metro. Also, the scene at Hamilton Square, with the 47, the battery locomotives are class 97/7s, converted from class 501 DC EMUs. They had large lead acid batteries in the former seating bays. Two were allocated to Birkenhead, the other eight to London depots. They worked in pairs, back to back, however the Merseyside ones were unique, in that they retained their third rail power as well. The other eight were battery only. 97701/2 were the ones allocated to Birkenhead, all ten now scrapped.
Cheers for the the extra info. Didn't realise that the Dosco's were also used on the metro, another good system. If Manchester hadn't messed around with mono rail & other daft schemes they would have had a underground to. But then again they probably wouldn't have metrolink
thanks for the efforts put into this, very interesting, and it was this video that told me first that an underground exists in Liverpool.
Thanks. Although we sort of had a "underground" in Liverpool since 1886. The 1970s transformations turned one line into a true network by the additions & extensions
What an excellent and informative video, I left Liverpool in 1997 but this brings back happy memories of using Merseyrail and it is a great pity that due to money constraints the Edge Hill spur was never implemented, that would have been something special if it had been.
It is a great shame. The full system they planned was sadly never realized. At least we got most of it
Excellent ! Many thanks for this well researched video.
Cheers Mike, doing the research can be a challenge at times.
Fascinating ! A really interesting video !
Cheers, enjoyed putting it together
Thank you for this well researched and presented Video. A lot of time and effort was needed to created this video loved the overlaid then and now clips.
Thanks Terry, I find part of the enjoyment of doing these videos is in the research. I had some luck in being able to have access to the collection of one of the engineers involved with the project
great video Paul, so informative and a great history lesson, taught me a thing or two 👍😊
Cheers, wasn't sure if perhaps I have gone into too much detail
@@Merseywail no.....spot on mate💪👍🚂
@@doggerproductions thanks I think the next ones will be easier to do. The picture research for this was a challenge lol
@@Merseywail I can imagine mate,.... proper nightmare, but you done a great job and I look forward to your next video....keep up the great work👍😊
That's a really interesting insight into the building of the network we know today. A well thought through video that packs a lot of information into a really concise story. A lot of TV documentary makers could learn a lesson or two here. That's an instant 'subscibe' from me!
Cheers for that Nigel. I have lots more planned, work permitting.
Brilliant video. Well done. Do one on the Southport - Lime Street line.
Thank you. I will get round to doing the Southport to Lime street service and the earlier through steam coaches eventually. There's so much railway history around merseyside and the north West.
Many thanks for a very informative video showing things from the past during construction
Thanks Brian
Thank you for your great work
Thanks, a little bit of Liverpool railway history that was neglected.
Absolutely fabulous mate. There is so little of this material about but perhaps there is in many peoples private collections. Let’s hope they all come to light. Please make more of these videos mate when and if you get any more material
. Doing a great job in preserving our railway heritage history. Thank you
Cheers Chris. I do know someone who has a good archive of merseyside railway history. Hopefully I can persuade him that people are interested in these things. It would be great if he did a book or two. Hopefully the reaction to these videos might help that along
Very interesting video, thanks.
Thanks Andy. It's a subject that's largely neglected. Hopefully when the 50th anniversary is reached there will be some kind of event to commemorate
Great video! Highly underrated
Cheers, am only starting out relatively speaking
Superb video, very informative indeed!, I didn't know a lot if not most of this stuff in this video, keep up the good work!!!
It's always been an interest of mine & hasn't been well documented. Hopefully the video has gone some way in correcting that. I will have to get round to doing the follow up, documenting the extra lines Merseyrail would have had,
had the full plans come to fruition
@@Merseywail Look forward to it :)
Excellent. Really really interesting
Cheers Phil glad you enjoyed it. Wasn't sure how many would be interested. But it seems there is interest in our underground
Cracking video! I hadn’t realised the plans for the Loop had been made as far back as the early 1960’s.
Fascinating information within the commentary.
Bravo, Sir!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
PS: You have a like and a new subscriber!
Thanks for subscribing. Yes the plans for the loop date back to the 60s. We were lucky to get what we did considering the actions of Dr Beeching. The idea for the loop was first suggested as far back as 1914. But nothing came of it then. But they got there eventually.
amazing video and channel 👍
Thanks. It's a story that previously hadn't been covered. Hopefully I have shed some light on the underground and it's creation
I was often jealous of the tram systems in place in Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham etc...until it occurred to me that the Merseyrail network is quite a unique system of metro trains and while often criticized, it isn't too bad when all's said and done.
It is a good system and it revitalised the railways on Merseyside
Very interesting video
Cheers Brian. Will be doing a follow up on the lines & stations that were planned for merseyrail but never happened
@@Merseywail cheers Paul
Love these videos … I don’t know why the material that you show hasn’t appeared before now… I’ll bet there are some interesting archives somewhere. I’d love to see some photos taken inside the ventilation tunnels of the Hamilton Square station around where the big holes in the roof of the platforms 1 and 2 section and also the drainage sections … I know that you showed part of the drainage system in one of your earlier videos.
There is a lot more out there. A lot of the pics in the video are from my own personal collection. These were from a dealer who still has a few hundred more but is keeping them in his own collection. More stuff came from one of the civil engineers involved with the project. I am trying to persuade him that there is interest out there & hopefully do a book on the building of the loop and link. I have seen pictures looking down the vent shafts to the tracks at Hamilton square but haven't seen them since.. I too would love to see more of the drainage tunnel. I know Simon Groom did a piece for Blue Peter back in 1986. He & the camera crew walked through the drainage heading. Water entering the tunnel from all angles
I miss Exchange Street Station.
Lots do, it's a shame a new use couldn't have been found for it. But sadly it was demonstrated
Great video! I'm looking forward to the video about the planned projects that never came to fruition! The unfinished and abandoned Edge Hill spur has such potential especially with all the developments at the university. What about a station serving the Anglican Cathedral on or near Duke Street (the site of the recently closed and demolished Chinese supermarket would have been perfect), the originally planned University station at Oxford Street, a new station at the Paddington Village development and maybe even another one at Wavertree Road. We dare to dream.
Thanks Alex. We are getting Liverpool Baltic, which is at the old St James site. I will be doing the lost merseyrail lines soon, a little more research to do first.
@@Merseywail Do you happen to know when we are getting Liverpool Baltic? They have been talking about it for years but I haven't been able to find out when work will begin? I completely understand about the research to be done before you can make the video! It's obvious from your content that you do a lot of research before you actually put a video together. I really appreciate the effort! I loved the Merseyrail before I saw your videos but afterwards my admiration for the whole system has really shot up!
@@alexscott1257 am not sure myself about time scales for the openings of Liverpool Baltic, there has been a cgi video of the planned station. From experience, now its been announced, it could be within the next 5 years. Yes research can be time consuming, but also enjoyable. It often throws up things you never knew.
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@@Merseywail Wow thanks that was really interesting to see! And thanks again for all your videos I really do find them enthralling!
@@alexscott1257 thanks again Alex
I walked down from Leeds St. Tunnel entrance to Central prior to the power being switched on in 1977.
Something I would love to do one day walk the loop link tunnels. That & the Mersey railway drainage tunnel
Alright mate maybe next week while the flight restrictions are on do a pub crawl around the Everton pubs around the City Centre there are quite a few now like the Denbigh Castle
An excellently presented and informative documentary.
The major anomaly on the system is why the Northern Line does not connect to Lime Street.
I fail to understand why there is no direct escalator access from the Lime Street mainline concourse into the Wirral Line?
There is also the strange decision not to rename James Street station as 'Pier Head' especially as a subway connection across Strand Street from Mann Island into the platform access areas would be a major convenience to all.
Finally, the decision not to make a direct connection to Liverpool Airport means that the two major transport hubs of the Inter City rail services and Air travel are unconnected by the Northern Line.
Thanks. There was an alternative plan, called the Horseshoe scheme, that would have connected the northern & wirral directly. Trains from Southport could have gone to Chester for example. This actually had better overall long term cost / benefit results. But as planning for the loop & link was well advanced, it was that which was cheaper in the short term.
The lime Street to Concourse escalators were favored by British rail engineers. But city Council wanted a closer link to the bus station & civic centre. Unfortunately the council got there way. After it had been built that way the civic centre plans were cancelled.
The problem with a link to the pier head is apart from tunneling in poor infilled ground with flooding issues. Is the rundown of both the ferry & buses that used to run from there. The transport authorities had planned to do away with the ferry altogether.
The link to the airport was not seen as important at the time as it wasn't as busy as it now is. But the poor link to the airport is now a major omission
@@Merseywail Thank you for this. Ido not quite follow the lack of a subway entrance to James Street from Mann island. Surely the tunnels and platforms run under the Strand to Mann Island anyway?
@@uingaeoc3905 they do, but require constant & expensive pumping to keep them dry. The extra cost of the pumps contributed to the Mersey railway company being plunged into bankruptcy. That & operating steam underground. The cost / benefit for having a link to the pier head just isn't worth it
@@Merseywail Thank you again. Have you read my 'Merseyrail: an Alternative ....'?
@@uingaeoc3905 no I haven't
Fantastic
Cheers Dennis, will we see you at MTT open day?
Hopefully 😊
That was great.
Thank you. Need to do the follow up
Whereabouts is the junction at 19:05? Which way is it facing? I thought I was familiar with the mersey underground, and I've travelled on it often enough but I don't recognise this junction. It looks like an older tunnel on the left with a newer one on the right.
The junction is at the top of Lord Street, just before the Queen Victoria monument. The tunnel on the left is the old mersey railway tunnel to Liverpool Central low level, now the northern line platforms. The one on the right is the end of the 1977 loop. Both are looking towards central. The tracks into the old tunnel are the stock interchange, linking Norham and wirral lines, and a short siding
@@Merseywail Yes, I realise now where it is. The left one leads up to "paradise" junction, "up the hill" at 1 in 27 where the original Wirral line service used to go after leaving James street's old platform on the far side, now not used. The right hand line goes up to the link line and the left one just terminates at a buffer stop, I've seen it on another video somewhere on here which was filmed from a train's cab. And the newer tunnel is where the current Wirral line trains emerge after leaving the loop. I was getting it mixed up with the reversing siding at Central low level but the newer tunnel is on the wrong side as there it's on the left.
@@majorpygge-phartt2643 that's correct yes
What an excellent video. I was wondering if you have any footage of how they lowered the tunnel to the south of Central to align with the newly rebuilt underground Central. I have seen a photo where part of this lowered line encroaches the top portion of the Wapping tunnel
Thank you. I haven't any footage of the lowering of the trackbed, but I have seen a picture of the work. In the picture I have seen they used mechanical excavators to dig and chisel out the rock bed. I have seen a picture of it encroaching on the Wapping tunnel .
They didn't save any of the brown plastic cladding? Oh no, what a shame!
I was really interested in the posters they found under Hamilton Square when they did the renovation
@04nbod no, non of the cladding was saved despite a request by liverpool museums for some examples. They had planned an exhibit featuring them to tell the story of merseyrail & the underground railway.
Omg lol I live in the wirral in New ferry and I never knew thissss
Not sure what parts you didn't know about. But most of this hasn't really been covered before. Hopefully this video has gone some way to bring to light the major engineering achievement of the Merseyrail underground
I wondered why you had to go up an escalator just to get in to Moorfields when I used it decades ago... now I know. seems like a unique 'feature'
It was decades ago but that brown modular seating still looked dated - though I'm sure it looked incredibly futuristic in its day - bet they thought it would never go out of style when they were putting it in.
It seemed like a good idea at the time but people seldom used the sections that were built. The modular seats could have easily been the same Verona Green as the buses, but the architect specified the brown
Enjoyed watching your video. Its a pity they never built anything like this in Manchester. All we got was a mickey mouse tram done on the cheap, it's constantly breaking down and over run with crime.
Manchester came so close . I know some of the civil engineers of the loop/link were going to be involved with the Picc-Vic line before it was cancelled. I know in the early stages Manchester planner's couldn't make their minds up of what system to go with. Even toying with a mono-rail solution at one point. My opinion is if they got their act together sooner Manchester would now have a first class underground.
th-cam.com/video/z9n0fyyWPIY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xaGaPQWqIsQvgbcb
Nottingham, Manchester, Leicester and Birmingham should invent this too, they are major cities and need them..
Can't speak for the other cities but Manchester came very close to having an underground system like Merseyrail. Their system was the Picc- Vic scheme. They delayed making a decision on which way to go with things, including considering a mono rail at one point. Perhaps if they had got their act together they would have had a underground. Though it has to be said the Metrolink tram system has been a great success for them
@@Merseywail Ah Im with you mate, seems Manchester was close to having an Underground as its a very busy place.
Seems with them delaying they missed out on the UG opportunity.
Metrolink seems to be doing pretty well currently which is great.
Also Nottingham does have disused Underground tunnels which should be transformed and used as a rail system.
If you look up Trekking Exploration on YT and ALW Research you will see how they explore the disused tunnels.
I have to ask, where did you get a lot of the diagrams and plans for this video, I’ve been searching online for them but can’t seem to find them!
I was allowed access to the collection of John Ryan, who was one of the head civil engineers on the Merseyrail project. I & others have suggested to him to do a book about the Merseyrail construction. But he is very modest about it all, and the achievements he & colleagues made.
What's the distance of the loop line?
@@PindarMOD 3.2 km or 2 miles.
20:14 Standard Merseyrail - the Ellesmere Port train cancelled.
I never even noticed that lol, it happens. Footage I had hoped to include but couldn't was from the old James Street power box, it had a guy announcing a cancellation back when the loop had just opened
Very interesting video! Do you know if the blueprints you shared are available anywhere, or can you share them? I'd enjoy looking through them.
Thanks. We were given access to a few of plans in preparation for a fundraising book for the preserved class 502 unit. ”Merseyrail 50 years of progress 1971 - 2021” . The plans belonging to one of the civil engineers involved with the project. We didn't use them in the book, but I got additional permission to use them in this video. We are hoping to get permission to add them to our archive material in due course. I also hope to persuade my 502 colleagues to do another fundraising book all about the building of Merseyrail, hopefully in time for it's 50 year anniversary.
Very informative video! Well in. :)
If I can give some constructive criticism: when describing the specifics of places (eg: 19:29) or tunnels (eg: 4:42), it might be wise to show these on a standardised map, eg: google maps or alternatives. While the B-roll of these locations certainly is nice, it's only really useful if the viewer's been there often.
Thank you. It's one thing I hadn't considered, that people might not know the area. The maps used are the ones that were actually used on the project by the various civil engineers. One of whom kindly gave me permission to use them in the video. Indeed I had hoped to have sections where he described the various parts of the construction & its issues. He declined sadly, being very modest about the superb work he & his colleagues achieved
@@MerseywailEven if you knew the area, it's nice to also see it on the map, especially when several aspects build up over time and you see the network grow. Of course, the on-location B-roll has plenty of value, too.
Those engineer's drawings can be hard to understand, being drawn for precision over clarity; trying to decipher them in real time was quite the trick.
That's really all I could say with regards to improvements, you've got a talent for this!
@@caramelldansen2204 thanks for that, am still learning. My earlier videos are embarrassingly bad, so hopefully new ones will be better
@@Merseywail I'd hardly call them bad! With regards to the map situation, I'd take inspiration from how Rediscovering Lost Railways shows the paths railways took; of course, do it in your own way, and I'd also recommend _not_ taking inspiration from his far-too-frequent pleads for subscribers.
By the way, if you ever decide to film on-location footage for the North Liverpool Extension Line (or "Liverpool Loop Line" for you blerts out there), get in touch, since I'd be happy to facilitate sharing anything I know, and I have a tripod and external camera mic you could borrow too!
@@caramelldansen2204 cheers again, the loop is going to be featured in the lost Merseyrail lines video. But will only feature those stations that would have been Merseyrail ones. As to how am going to film that section,I haven't decided yet. It can be a bit dodgy round certain sections
Very interesting, which class 47 was it at Hamilton Square?I remember the old Class 503s with the wooden panels and flickering lights, lots of memories travelling to see my Grandparents
Thanks. The 47 was 47190. One of the 503s was preserved for preservation, it was in storage at the Hornby warehouse in Margate, but I think it's since been moved out. A 502 unit (northern line) was also preserved & is undergoing restoration at the premises of the Merseyside transport trust in Burscough. A open day is being held there on 31 July. www.class502.org.uk/news-blog/2022/07/15/mtt-open-day-2022/
The Class 47 was a life long Crewe engine and had serious accident and had to be rebuilt
@@suninn22 the pic would be approximately 1976 would this be before or after the accident?
great this video have you herd the rumours of the mann island lake?
I have heard of them. I suspect they are thinking of the deep sump that was built by the mersey railway back in 1886. There is a similar one at shore Rd Birkenhead. There is also a short unused heading at Mann island that's partially flooded. The river tunnel has a drainage tunnel to extract the water entering the tunnel from the river and it runs downwards into the two sumps to be pumped out
Great work. I understood necessary works for same led to the demolition of the Cavern. Is this correct do you know? Additionally, when the new Cavern development was constructed, excavations revealed a large flooded tunnel (the surveyors explored it in a dinghy), which was mass filled. Could that have been a redundant rail or sewer network do you think ?
The link line passes through the site of the cavern yes. As for the flooded tunnel, there was a number of old well's that had to capped off. There's been lots about a underground river, but most likely its the drainage heading of the mersey railway. This has approximately 4000 gallons per hour entering the river tunnel
Does anyone know of any existing film of trains out of Exchange, as far as Sandhills?
There was a DVD about merseyside electrics by “online video" but I don't think it featured the exchange to sandhills section. With it being on a viaduct for most of the way it would have been difficult for good footage
@@Merseywail I just wanted to see that tiny bit which has now gone where you see the old unused arches
@@eddherring4972 it does feature in my earlier video “remembering Liverpool Exchange" or bits of it do th-cam.com/video/iKiRT89BKMI/w-d-xo.html
@@Merseywail I’m watching it now, although I see from the comments I’ve already commented, mine seems to be the first comment, thanks for the heads up, I’ll watch it fully again.
@@Merseywail Found it! The quality is very poor (but I don’t care because I found it) watch it here ➡️ th-cam.com/video/zRf1uUDcRaE/w-d-xo.html
Is that the same Marples who had his own road building company ?
It is. It's hard to believe that something like Merseyrail was helped along by Marple. The cynical would point out that the various consultants & construction contractors were probably friends of his. I couldn't possibly comment.
@18:36 ❤❤
What we could have had
Did I see something about construction work going to Len Fairclough - really? of Corrie fame
It's not that Leonard Fairclough, though I think the character was on Corrie about the same time. This was a now gone construction firm of the same name en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Fairclough_%26_Son
What's very irritating about the new city centre stations is the lack of any provision for cyclists. The lifts are far too small for cycles (some stand their bikes vertically). I don't know if they even accommodate a mobility scooter. Even some wheelchairs with the occupier lying nearly flat wouldn't fit. The dangerous practice of taking cycles on the escalators is allowed (either officially or a 'blind eye' turned).
The provision for cycles in lifts is quite poor. I don't think it was considered when the system was designed in the early 70s. I can't see a wheelchair problem though. I regularly see disabled passengers using the underground stations, and that Will probably increase when the new trains come in. With their level access making travel for the disabled far easier
Looking forward to it.
Am back doing the narration, so hopefully you can understand my accent and deep voice
@@Merseywail most likely. Let's see.
And it was good. :)
A long and detailed one, so well worth the watch!
@@DefaultMale_ I was worried that it might have been to detailed. Glad you enjoyed it