At 9:49, i say '2020' instead of 2021, and '2021' instead of '2022'. I'm sure i'm not the only one who feel like the weeks and months have blurred together over the last year, and we've all lost track of time a little ...
Will they ever connect all of them together via tunnels? I'd not be happy if I had to change through Paddington coming from Heathrow in case the Piccadilly is not running with crossrail still not ready.
An expensive way of getting around this issue would just be to connect the two tube stations in real life with a really long tunnel. I'm happy to set up a Kickstarter for this if anyone's keen...
As I understand it they are connected, the critical thing for tube challengers is the two separate buildings and this is why both Paddingtons have to be visited
Just having Paddington West would be a good idea! Tokyo has Shinjuku-Nishiguchi metro station which translates to "Shinjuku West Entrance", and then proper Shinjuku metro stations themselves.
You have to bear in mind who the maps are primarily for - tourists...I used to travel every day from Seven Sisters to Goldhawk road ((change at Kings Cross) then bus to Acton Green) by far the biggest confusion at Kings Cross were travellers from the Great Northern, LNER, Hull (and Midland) working out which train to take for Paddington. The confusion seeing 2 paddingtons on the maps was unreal. (it just means all trains will go to a Paddington station and it doesn't really matter which one you alight at if going on the Great Western). It's slightly different if you are alighting at Paddington for work or visiting as to which exit is best for you but again you quickly learn what to go for. But for the purposes of maps they really should show Paddington as one interchange station for the benefit of the those who are new or ad hoc users of the system. It may not be accurate for crayonistas but they are not the primary reason for these maps. (despite what they may think themselves!)
Thanks Geoff. The crazy way Paddington was shown in 1964 had a consequence for me in 1965. I arrived in the mainline station from Birmingham as a penniless student heading for a hostel near Westbourne Grove Station. I simply could not find the Metropolitan line station, and having no money for a taxi I walked with a heavy suitcase from Paddington to Westbourne Grove. Perhaps tube map designers should use “ignoramuses” like me in 1965 to test their maps.
“For the first time: 4 connecter blobs” Meanwhile in paris: *laughs in saint lazare station* P.s.: depending on the map its 6 or 7 but rn one of the connection tunnels is closed temporarily
The Tube Map is primarily a travel planning tool. Someone planning a journey doesn't really care at all where the Bakerloo curves and goes - just that they can change at Paddington to whatever line they need to get where they're going.
Surely the two stations being separate can be an important part of the information for that planning and can be conveyed with the curve? Though it's not necessarily the only way. Kaikenlaisista paikoista sitä ittensä juutuubissa löytääkin, vaikken Lontoosta ja metrosta mitään tiiäkään. Ja että vielä veteraanijatkislaisenkin bongaa, hep!
Yes, they do care..There are just too many ways that they can pick the wrong station to change at. Charing cross for changing between N and B..Better to use Embankment, possibly looping back. Queensway to Bayswater:!just walk. Piccadilly to Circle at Gloucester Road. No, change onto the subsurface lines at B Court.
Absolutely correct, when you disembark a train from the West of England, there is an overbridge over all platforms to the H&C, but you go forwards, across the Lawn and down into Bakerloo/District. Of course weirdly, both stations serve the "Circle" Line (which is actually a paperclip line).
the 2012 tube map did it accurately with connecterblobs, they highlighted the H&C Paddington line as orange with the distance of how far away the stations are to show its a seperate station
Surely Paddington should go back to having two or three seperate stations with "Paddington" in their name, especially considering the circle line stops at two of them
Before the Lizline is completed it would be nice if you submitted your own representation for Paddington on the tube map. It needs a simple and clear approach to what seems to have been a complicated problem over the years. In fact you could do the whole map - "Designed by Geoff Marshall" That would be good!
Errr . . . the station entrance at Hammersmith has, for as long as I can remember (Since the '60s) had a overhead glass sign showing "Hammersmith and City" line. And I was a frequent user in the 1980s of the Ladbroke Grove to Paddington (Main line) section and it was always known then as the Hammersmith and City Line, although the glass signs always had the same colour (Deep reddy purple) as the main Metropolitan line.
Vraiment impressionnant avec autant de savoir, de précision dans la démonstration de l'évolution du tracé et des nœuds. Je suis pantois. Vous êtes également très pédagogue. Toujours un plaisir de vous suivre. 👍👍👍😳👌😀
Thanks for presenting that Geoff. I was thinking of an idea which would be perfect for a video, talking about announcements that need to be improved like one at Walthamstow Queens Road on the Overground, not mentioning to change for the Victoria, bus services and the Overground from Walthamstow Central Station and Bus Station.
@@geofftech2 Well, well, well, you could make a video asking your subscribers whether they think the Docklands Light Railway should be split into 5 different lines each with its own name and colour or leave it all as it is. I know the names I'd give the 5 lines: Greenwich Line, Beckton Line, Woolwich Line, Bow Line, Stratford Line. But I haven't decided yet about the 5 different colours.
This is a tour de force Geoff, well done! And why am I secretly pleased Harry Beck probably surpassed them all? Probably because Beck truly understood what he was trying to achieve and didn't get side tracked by 'marketing' (or Eliz Purp Cross.) Well done again sir.
what im getting from this is paddington needs to be a bigger station with connections to all of the tube lines and can then warrant one massive blob to rule them all :P
"I remember back in 1933 I talked about how the Bakerloo line dipped inside the circle line.". Geoff showing his age here, although he doesn't seem that old ;)
I've got a great idea..... connect the stations together by some underground passageways with a single gateline. If Monument and Bank can do it then Paddington and Paddington can do it
Harry Beck's whole design philosophy was that geographical accuracy is not relevant. Therefore it doesn't matter whether or not the Bakerloo line is shown inside the Circle line. What was important to Beck was the issue of connectivity. Therefore, those that show the H&C is not connected to the District and Bakerloo are the ones which best represent what Beck was trying to achieve. In recent times those are the 1987 and 1999 maps.
I think your timeline might be a little bit off, the map I have is dated Dec 2009, but shows the three connection stations from the 2011 map. And it actually got me, as I needed to take the H&C somewhere, so entered at the Circle Line gate, not realizing just how long of a walk it was to the actual line I wanted.
Yes and Crossrail will be connected to the Bakerloo line via a tunnel so I'd make the Crossrail station part of the same station. So still only two stations to connect with the dotted line.
Hey, there! This is a fun coincidence. I own and (sort of) manage the clarksbury.com domain name where the Tube Map Archive is stored. As you may have seen, it hasn't been updated since 2002. It was set up during the early days of our time on the web, and it's since passed into the mists of memory for us, but we've never deleted it. The individual who set up and collected all those maps is Chris Livett and I'm sure he'll be chuffed to find that his work has been so helpful here. I've been a long-time fan of this channel as well, and I'm chuffed that I've managed to help out, even if only peripherally. Anyway, if you're interested in transit-related videos and information about Toronto, Canada, check out our TH-cam channel, or visit our connected website. Thanks again for the shout-out!
hello transittoronot, lovely comment ... thanks, that Clarksbury archive page is used by MANY people i know who love to refer it it and the old tube maps, so we hope it stays forever and you never take it down! so please say "hi!" and a big thanks to Chris, yes .. let him know it's been so very very useful still all these years on! :-)
really interesting - noticed too "the full of errors" map from 1995 = I was London Underground then for few months - and found a CAD map of all the stations _ to scale = wish i'd kept a copy ...... i wonder if that's the source data for this version ?
Its true in a certain point of veiw: The logistics are 1 station wich is historicly wrong but wright in terms of Operation and the mode being Essentially one station :/
The alternative explanation for some of those designs is that someone drew what they wanted the station to be like, had drawn up proposals for underground connecting passageways between the various bits, and pushed out the maps to test the water and see if they could find enough support (and funding) to get the passageways built....
I got so confused when I went to Paddington in 2018, a week before HSTs out of there ended. I arrived at Paddington on the Bakerloo and found the labyrinth, then left the station and went wandering to find the other station (because I was aware that there were 2 paddington stations), and ended up getting a member of staff confused because I went in the District and Circle entrance and asked about it there (there being no labyrinth at the district and circle entrance). So I had to find my way across the street to Paddington mainline station to do trainspotting, then before I left to Acton Central, I found the H&C/Circle entrance and its labyrinth. So confusing.
As someone who used to regularly change between the H&C/Circle station and National Rail at Paddington, I think it's more helpful to link them even if it's technically less accurate. You've got to remember that the whole point of the tube map is usability not accuracy.
But there are usability problems too of not showing that the H&C/Circle station is separate. I once was trying to get to Liverpool street to catch the train to Stansted airport and went into the Bakerloo Circle and District line station, after all it's directly in front of you when you get off an intercity train (which always come in on the lower numbered platforms) and I had no idea that the H&C/Circle station was at the other end of the concourse, as a direct consequence of it being inaccurately shown on the map. In the end I didn't want to leave the gate line (I had a national rail ticket to Stansted airport and was worried the barrier might not let me out, or worse, swallow my ticket) so I just went to Notting Hill Gate and got the central line to Liverpool street. I know that at least one of my friends has also done this and then gone all the way round the wrong way. The H&C station should be shown with a dotted line connection
I'm sure I remember there was a time when the three stations each had separate gatelines. The main entrance to the bakerloo line was onto the mainline station, from where you walked along past the taxi rank along the platform to the Met line station. There was a tunnel through to the circle/district station, but outside the gateline. When they rebuilt the underground elements of the Circle/District and Bakerloo, they put them both behind the gateline. Some of this seems to be reflected in the mapping . Think this is the 1980s refurbishment in the Wikipedia article - bigger than they say as the Circle line entrance and the Lawn were comprehensively changed.
I found the 1987 version confusing -- two distinct entities, but only one "Paddington" label. I was never sure if that blob off to the left was actually Paddington or if it was something else that didn't have a label.
Very well done on this video Geoff! You have done such a great job entertaining me and your other fans during these hard times. Your videos are the only thing that keep me going! Great job!
There is a cafe next to Paddington that when sat in the cafe, you can here the rumble of the tube stock underneath you, if you exit Paddington via the ramp, it will be on the left, it is called "Garfunkel's"
I like that you are so intrigued by the tube map, but remember the tube map is not geographicly accurate, think about regent's park and Camden town been near in real life but the large distance they are on the map. Anyway great and very informative video
Very interesting video. Sincerely I like these three iterations: The first Beck Diagram (1931/1933). Real and clear design. The 1997 one (you said 1999 but I found at the LT museum website that this started circa 1997). Clearest design. And finally 1985 to 1987 issues. I don't know but using rings to denote also interchanges to mainline stations clutters the design.
Paddington H&C needs to be renamed because it causes so much confusion with tourists etc. - having 2 stations with the same name on the "not-a-circle" route is just stoooooopid!
As someone who uses GWR, the annoying thing about Paddington on the map is the two circle stations, the map doesn't make clear which station you need to head east past Edgware Road. Sure you can always change at Edgware Road, but on the map it's a mess and a bad design. How about renaming the H&C station to "Paddington North", or stopping the circle line service coming from Bayswater at Paddington (the empty train can continue to Edgware road if it needs to). Although I guess there must be some people who use the circle line from Bayswater and beyond to get off at Edgware road? I dunno, but Paddington on the map is a mess and not intuitive for newbies.
those tube maps they give you in any tube station are way too small, anyway, hence the confusion well at least partly. still I love London underground , it`s fascinating in every sense. period.
The square connector blobs in 1960 were to show connections with BR (see key at the bottom left) which wasn't a bad idea, although they do look a bit ugly.
Great vid Geoff after lockdown you going to visit Paddington massive changes at the station at the moment was around there on Sunday be great for you to tell us about all the building changea there
In the best possible way, I would like to contribute congratulations on your SPECTACULARLY fluent triumph of nerdery. If there were a Pulitzer prize for obsessive tube-itis you'd get it. I laughed so much.
It's one of those occasions where you stare at a word for too long and it loses its visual identity and meaning to become squiggles, especially when three turn up at once on one map! And if you say it three times the bear will appear, probably.
Good video, oddly enough I was thinking about this conundrum only yesterday. In my perfect world, I like the Bakerloo on the outside as it looks neater, but the H&C Paddington should only ever be shown as a stand alone station not connected to the others as there is a good 5min walk between them, the only exception perhaps being a connector blob with the purple line
@@AndreiTupolev It does but your average tourist is going to use Prade street and then wonder why they've had to change at Edgware Rd if heading east, while the commuters (and locals heading to Hammersmith) know that the trick to not having to change at Edgware Rd is catching a train from the H&C station; in a way it sorts the men from the boys
I do see how inconvenient it will be for Londoners who are using Crossrail to change at Liverpool Street and Paddington Station to Continue their journey to Heathrow or Reading.
Great video. Is it okay if you could explain how to get to Liverpool Street from Paddington via the circle line? As I'm very confused by all the lines and all the stations at Paddington so would appreciate someone explaining where to go at Paddington and what to expect.
Geoff Marshall addressing an issue I never knew I needed addressing, until Geoff addressed it! Amazing that it took 80 years to represent the Bakerloo Line correctly, showing that it only connects with the District Line station, but it was a fleeting glimpse of accuracy 😂
I did know it needed addressing because the in my opinion poor way it's shown on the tube map once caused me to go to the wrong one and I know of at least one of my friends who's done the same thing
Re the naming issue: How about you name the Hammersmith line station "Bishops Road Paddington", the Circle line station "Paddington Praed Street" and the Bakerloo line one simply "Paddington" (or even with the Praed Street identifier, as the latter two appear to be -considered- one station). Could also be quite neat on the map - however you design it.
Very interesting. I've kind of noticed how the links at Paddington have been represented over the years, but of course not in this minute detail. 👏 Maybe we can next look at how differently Liverpool Street, Hammersmith or Charing Cross stations have been represented over the years, and why there are two Edgware Road stations. 👍🏾
This makes me wonder. How would one draw the Stockholm Metro's central station? Here it is just one blob with 3 (actually 7 tube lines, 1 tram and 2 regional trains) lines crossing it. Though, the real fun part is to try to make a map of the station itself, since it is partly a 3d maze.
I love these videos, but, not even living in the UK any more, I always feel like I'm jumping down some weird niche obsession rabbit hole when I watch them. Not complaining in the least!
At 9:49, i say '2020' instead of 2021, and '2021' instead of '2022'.
I'm sure i'm not the only one who feel like the weeks and months have blurred together over the last year, and we've all lost track of time a little ...
I'm sure people went a bit crazy then...
Will they ever connect all of them together via tunnels? I'd not be happy if I had to change through Paddington coming from Heathrow in case the Piccadilly is not running with crossrail still not ready.
Same
I assumed this was recorded ages ago and only just edited together. But it makes more sense that you just said that wrong years!
totally understand lets hope we can all recover from this as a society! love you geoff, kept me entertained even with the office videos.
People: the video about boarding Intercity 125 using contactless was definitely the most niche thing Geoff will ever make.
Geoff:
Hang on, rumour has it that a "Least Used Rubbish Bin on the Underground" video is in the works.
@@PrateekKarandikar i hope you’re not kidding, I’d really like to see that
An expensive way of getting around this issue would just be to connect the two tube stations in real life with a really long tunnel. I'm happy to set up a Kickstarter for this if anyone's keen...
There's only one tube station proper at Paddington. 😉
As I understand it they are connected, the critical thing for tube challengers is the two separate buildings and this is why both Paddingtons have to be visited
They should call it the Paddington and Paddington line
@TheRenaissanceman65 or you could go by tube. It takes under an hour.
Well, it is possible to connect between the three under cover. Although the new entrance to the H&C line is a bit exposed
The title really needed a "You won't believe #7!" to achieve peak BuzzFeed.
'Peak Buzzfeed' would be, "14 Reasons Why Tube Maps Are Racist"
O O “Yes, trains are anti-LGBTQ. Yes, I want them to be called trans. Thank you” is peak buzzfeed.
Maybe just have one big blob with all the lines going into it labelled "Paddington (good luck)"?
And a shrugging shoulders emoji
Haha yes
The 14 different ways confusion has been shown on the tube map
just tie the various lines in a knot
It’s literally color coded spaghetti...
Don’t imagine it
@@pizzaivlife put them on a seperate map
@@BTownRailfanPNW i already started imagining it :/
@@AWildSnowball oh no
This is the exact level of nerd I require, and shall adjust future expectations accordingly.
Why am I enjoying this video?
I don’t even live in the UK, but watched all 11:05 of this 🥸
You could have shown us what the future representation of Paddington SHOULD look like, for you never know, tfl might just like it so much to copy it!
Get out the markers and paper.
I think it's the one on the thumbnail (as I'm writing this).
@@warbler4954 I thought he strongly disapproves the two stations being connected, that's what the thumbnail shows
"Paddington North" , "Paddington South" and "Paddington Mainline" would be way more straightforward
But what a clutter all those words would make!
Just having Paddington West would be a good idea! Tokyo has Shinjuku-Nishiguchi metro station which translates to "Shinjuku West Entrance", and then proper Shinjuku metro stations themselves.
"Bring Back Praed Street!"
@@Elitist20 and put a clear glass panel at street level over the Pread Street junction so we can enjoy all the action.
You have to bear in mind who the maps are primarily for - tourists...I used to travel every day from Seven Sisters to Goldhawk road ((change at Kings Cross) then bus to Acton Green) by far the biggest confusion at Kings Cross were travellers from the Great Northern, LNER, Hull (and Midland) working out which train to take for Paddington. The confusion seeing 2 paddingtons on the maps was unreal. (it just means all trains will go to a Paddington station and it doesn't really matter which one you alight at if going on the Great Western). It's slightly different if you are alighting at Paddington for work or visiting as to which exit is best for you but again you quickly learn what to go for. But for the purposes of maps they really should show Paddington as one interchange station for the benefit of the those who are new or ad hoc users of the system. It may not be accurate for crayonistas but they are not the primary reason for these maps. (despite what they may think themselves!)
we now need “The 15 different ways Paddington had been shown on the tube map”
Thanks Geoff. The crazy way Paddington was shown in 1964 had a consequence for me in 1965. I arrived in the mainline station from Birmingham as a penniless student heading for a hostel near Westbourne Grove Station. I simply could not find the Metropolitan line station, and having no money for a taxi I walked with a heavy suitcase from Paddington to Westbourne Grove. Perhaps tube map designers should use “ignoramuses” like me in 1965 to test their maps.
Precisely!
Good designers start with Murphy's Law then work back from that...
Did you mean Westbourne Park? There is no Westbourne Grove tube station and there never was such a station.
@@UltimateAzumanger Thank you for correcting me. Stewart Dorrell
“For the first time: 4 connecter blobs”
Meanwhile in paris: *laughs in saint lazare station*
P.s.: depending on the map its 6 or 7 but rn one of the connection tunnels is closed temporarily
Châtelet as well
HAHAHA YESSSS
@@SebPlaysAnything And Les Halles.
I found the Metro dead easy - when I was 17
The Tube Map is primarily a travel planning tool. Someone planning a journey doesn't really care at all where the Bakerloo curves and goes - just that they can change at Paddington to whatever line they need to get where they're going.
Steady on there
Surely the two stations being separate can be an important part of the information for that planning and can be conveyed with the curve? Though it's not necessarily the only way.
Kaikenlaisista paikoista sitä ittensä juutuubissa löytääkin, vaikken Lontoosta ja metrosta mitään tiiäkään. Ja että vielä veteraanijatkislaisenkin bongaa, hep!
Yes, they do care..There are just too many ways that they can pick the wrong station to change at.
Charing cross for changing between N and B..Better to use Embankment, possibly looping back. Queensway to Bayswater:!just walk. Piccadilly to Circle at Gloucester Road. No, change onto the subsurface lines at B Court.
Yes I do care, the fact that it's two separate stations is very useful and important information if you need to change between them
Take a shot every time he says ‘connector blob’ 😂
Thank you for this! You, along with several British TH-camrs, are keeping me sane. God Bless!
Absolutely correct, when you disembark a train from the West of England, there is an overbridge over all platforms to the H&C, but you go forwards, across the Lawn and down into Bakerloo/District. Of course weirdly, both stations serve the "Circle" Line (which is actually a paperclip line).
the 2012 tube map did it accurately with connecterblobs, they highlighted the H&C Paddington line as orange with the distance of how far away the stations are to show its a seperate station
Surely Paddington should go back to having two or three seperate stations with "Paddington" in their name, especially considering the circle line stops at two of them
Before the Lizline is completed it would be nice if you submitted your own representation for Paddington on the tube map. It needs a simple and clear approach to what seems to have been a complicated problem over the years. In fact you could do the whole map - "Designed by Geoff Marshall" That would be good!
Errr . . . the station entrance at Hammersmith has, for as long as I can remember (Since the '60s) had a overhead glass sign showing "Hammersmith and City" line. And I was a frequent user in the 1980s of the Ladbroke Grove to Paddington (Main line) section and it was always known then as the Hammersmith and City Line, although the glass signs always had the same colour (Deep reddy purple) as the main Metropolitan line.
Love your enthusiasm for this topic 👏 🙌
Vraiment impressionnant avec autant de savoir, de précision dans la démonstration de l'évolution du tracé et des nœuds. Je suis pantois. Vous êtes également très pédagogue. Toujours un plaisir de vous suivre. 👍👍👍😳👌😀
Im starting to think I dont know myself anymore, because found this ridiculously interesting!!😍😍 xx
Thanks for presenting that Geoff. I was thinking of an idea which would be perfect for a video, talking about announcements that need to be improved like one at Walthamstow Queens Road on the Overground, not mentioning to change for the Victoria, bus services and the Overground from Walthamstow Central Station and Bus Station.
Welcome to "Geoff has no footage left for new videos" :)
The struggle is real. 😮
@@geofftech2
Well, well, well, you could make a video asking your subscribers whether they think the Docklands Light Railway should be split into 5 different lines each with its own name and colour or leave it all as it is.
I know the names I'd give the 5 lines: Greenwich Line, Beckton Line, Woolwich Line, Bow Line, Stratford Line.
But I haven't decided yet about the 5 different colours.
@@benedettobruno1669 Just use route numbers.
@@allenwilliams1306
Do you mean D1, D2, D3, D4, D5?
This is a tour de force Geoff, well done! And why am I secretly pleased Harry Beck probably surpassed them all? Probably because Beck truly understood what he was trying to achieve and didn't get side tracked by 'marketing' (or Eliz Purp Cross.) Well done again sir.
what im getting from this is paddington needs to be a bigger station with connections to all of the tube lines and can then warrant one massive blob to rule them all :P
More corridors.
The Last one looks like the Conector Blob is for Royal oak-
Also notice ,i think the 1933 map, they incorrectly showed Edgware Road Bakerloo as having interchange with Edgware Road District and Circle and H&C.
there might have been ticketing was it an underground map or a lptb map ?
Is there content in talking about the different ways different announcements from different companies pronounce Marylebone?
In a perfect world, purple trains wouldn't even be on a tube map.
"I remember back in 1933 I talked about how the Bakerloo line dipped inside the circle line.". Geoff showing his age here, although he doesn't seem that old ;)
Thanks, Geoff. I finally know how to pronounce Praed Street!
The slightly off alignment on some of these is driving my utterly bonkers.
"Wrong side" reminds a bit of Lambeth North.
Meanwhile, the rest of the country wishes they had the “too many railways” in once place problem. 😂
@Geoff Marshall you have been brilliant through CORONAVIRUS MADE ME FEEL HAPPY THANK YOU GEOFF
You make a good point that it's not the Tube Map (and hasn't been for some time); it's the TfL Map.
I can imagine the hundreds of meetings discussing ‘the Paddington Problem’
I can't help wondering how many marmalade sarnies were eaten at those meetings.
and you also said "as I mentioned back in 1933." that got me the giggles.
If Daniel Craig and Smeagol somehow had a love child.
And now in 2023 we have a 4-blob Paddington so elongated that it looks like the whole station is a branch of the Elizabeth Line.
I've got a great idea..... connect the stations together by some underground passageways with a single gateline.
If Monument and Bank can do it then Paddington and Paddington can do it
Would love you see your version of the Tube Map! The Marshall Map
Not the Marshall Plan (?!)
Harry Beck's whole design philosophy was that geographical accuracy is not relevant. Therefore it doesn't matter whether or not the Bakerloo line is shown inside the Circle line. What was important to Beck was the issue of connectivity. Therefore, those that show the H&C is not connected to the District and Bakerloo are the ones which best represent what Beck was trying to achieve. In recent times those are the 1987 and 1999 maps.
I think your timeline might be a little bit off, the map I have is dated Dec 2009, but shows the three connection stations from the 2011 map. And it actually got me, as I needed to take the H&C somewhere, so entered at the Circle Line gate, not realizing just how long of a walk it was to the actual line I wanted.
It doesn't matter how pretty it is but how usable it is. Let's get our priorities right Geoff.
How about having the 2007 Paddington interpretation, but with a black dotted line between the District/Circle/Bakerloo and H&C stations to show it's a
Yes and Crossrail will be connected to the Bakerloo line via a tunnel so I'd make the Crossrail station part of the same station. So still only two stations to connect with the dotted line.
So glad that whenever I go to London , I normally start and finish up in Paddington so I don't worry about connecting there too much x
Hey, there! This is a fun coincidence. I own and (sort of) manage the clarksbury.com domain name where the Tube Map Archive is stored. As you may have seen, it hasn't been updated since 2002. It was set up during the early days of our time on the web, and it's since passed into the mists of memory for us, but we've never deleted it.
The individual who set up and collected all those maps is Chris Livett and I'm sure he'll be chuffed to find that his work has been so helpful here. I've been a long-time fan of this channel as well, and I'm chuffed that I've managed to help out, even if only peripherally.
Anyway, if you're interested in transit-related videos and information about Toronto, Canada, check out our TH-cam channel, or visit our connected website. Thanks again for the shout-out!
hello transittoronot, lovely comment ... thanks, that Clarksbury archive page is used by MANY people i know who love to refer it it and the old tube maps, so we hope it stays forever and you never take it down! so please say "hi!" and a big thanks to Chris, yes .. let him know it's been so very very useful still all these years on! :-)
@@geofftech2 Well, I'll see to it that it does! :-)
really interesting - noticed too "the full of errors" map from 1995 = I was London Underground then for few months - and found a CAD map of all the stations _ to scale = wish i'd kept a copy ...... i wonder if that's the source data for this version ?
Blimey, we've got a pub quiz just on Paddington.
I think the 2011 variation with a solid black line through the connection to show that it's a separate station, but still "connected"
Its true in a certain point of veiw:
The logistics are 1 station wich is historicly wrong but wright in terms of Operation and the mode being Essentially one station :/
Where's the tube map drawn by you, showing correct placement and labeling, that would make sense to someone vacationing in The UK?
The Circle line is no longer a circle! How do TFL get away with this??!!
11 minutes basically about connector blobs, and yes I watched it all
This kind of detail picking is something I’m expert at. Glad videos like this about my London-entry station get hundreds of thousands of views.
The alternative explanation for some of those designs is that someone drew what they wanted the station to be like, had drawn up proposals for underground connecting passageways between the various bits, and pushed out the maps to test the water and see if they could find enough support (and funding) to get the passageways built....
Just out of shot, Edgware Road and Edgware Road are going: “what are we, chopped liver?”
Thank goodness they renamed the station to "Shepherds Bush MARKET".
I got so confused when I went to Paddington in 2018, a week before HSTs out of there ended. I arrived at Paddington on the Bakerloo and found the labyrinth, then left the station and went wandering to find the other station (because I was aware that there were 2 paddington stations), and ended up getting a member of staff confused because I went in the District and Circle entrance and asked about it there (there being no labyrinth at the district and circle entrance). So I had to find my way across the street to Paddington mainline station to do trainspotting, then before I left to Acton Central, I found the H&C/Circle entrance and its labyrinth.
So confusing.
In next week's video: Geoff discuses all the maps that show "Kings Cross" and "King's Cross" 😀
As someone who used to regularly change between the H&C/Circle station and National Rail at Paddington, I think it's more helpful to link them even if it's technically less accurate. You've got to remember that the whole point of the tube map is usability not accuracy.
But there are usability problems too of not showing that the H&C/Circle station is separate. I once was trying to get to Liverpool street to catch the train to Stansted airport and went into the Bakerloo Circle and District line station, after all it's directly in front of you when you get off an intercity train (which always come in on the lower numbered platforms) and I had no idea that the H&C/Circle station was at the other end of the concourse, as a direct consequence of it being inaccurately shown on the map. In the end I didn't want to leave the gate line (I had a national rail ticket to Stansted airport and was worried the barrier might not let me out, or worse, swallow my ticket) so I just went to Notting Hill Gate and got the central line to Liverpool street. I know that at least one of my friends has also done this and then gone all the way round the wrong way. The H&C station should be shown with a dotted line connection
I'm sure I remember there was a time when the three stations each had separate gatelines. The main entrance to the bakerloo line was onto the mainline station, from where you walked along past the taxi rank along the platform to the Met line station. There was a tunnel through to the circle/district station, but outside the gateline. When they rebuilt the underground elements of the Circle/District and Bakerloo, they put them both behind the gateline. Some of this seems to be reflected in the mapping . Think this is the 1980s refurbishment in the Wikipedia article - bigger than they say as the Circle line entrance and the Lawn were comprehensively changed.
Watching this now… its 5 blobs 🤣 as you predicted
That's my tube map archive that you've linked to! Remarkable that something I haven't touched since high school is still alive.
Nice dude 👍
I found the 1987 version confusing -- two distinct entities, but only one "Paddington" label. I was never sure if that blob off to the left was actually Paddington or if it was something else that didn't have a label.
I think that it's the best design save for the fact that I think there should be a dotted like to show the walking connection
Very well done on this video Geoff! You have done such a great job entertaining me and your other fans during these hard times. Your videos are the only thing that keep me going! Great job!
Any thoughts on the closure (unless they been restored since I was there) of the direct stairs between the main line footbridge and the H&C platforms?
There is a cafe next to Paddington that when sat in the cafe, you can here the rumble of the tube stock underneath you, if you exit Paddington via the ramp, it will be on the left, it is called "Garfunkel's"
I like that you are so intrigued by the tube map, but remember the tube map is not geographicly accurate, think about regent's park and Camden town been near in real life but the large distance they are on the map.
Anyway great and very informative video
New drinking game. Shot for every time Geoff says "connector blob".
Very interesting video. Sincerely I like these three iterations:
The first Beck Diagram (1931/1933). Real and clear design.
The 1997 one (you said 1999 but I found at the LT museum website that this started circa 1997). Clearest design.
And finally 1985 to 1987 issues. I don't know but using rings to denote also interchanges to mainline stations clutters the design.
Text: "Paddington Bishops Road"
My brain: "Paddington's Road Mishaps".
I guess the bear is learning to drive?
Paddington H&C needs to be renamed because it causes so much confusion with tourists etc. - having 2 stations with the same name on the "not-a-circle" route is just stoooooopid!
Brilliantly done Geoff 9/10. If only you'd pointed your hands in the correct direction when referring to the maps, you'd get 10/10
Keep what you are doing Geoff. It will probably get very complicated in the future.
As someone who uses GWR, the annoying thing about Paddington on the map is the two circle stations, the map doesn't make clear which station you need to head east past Edgware Road. Sure you can always change at Edgware Road, but on the map it's a mess and a bad design. How about renaming the H&C station to "Paddington North", or stopping the circle line service coming from Bayswater at Paddington (the empty train can continue to Edgware road if it needs to). Although I guess there must be some people who use the circle line from Bayswater and beyond to get off at Edgware road? I dunno, but Paddington on the map is a mess and not intuitive for newbies.
Take a shot anytime the words connector blob is mentioned
I would have had the district and Bakerloo stations connected then displayed the H&C Station as a dotted line between them
I don't care one bit about trains usually, nor do I live in England, but I absolutely adore this level of geekery!
Geoff, Have you thought of designing your own tube map, then sending it to TFL, i think it would be great if you did, even better if TFL use it..
This would be interesting for other stations i can't think of any good examples though
So, so interesting as this is the station I travel to from Cornwall. Why was there such a gap between the 1964 map and the 1987 map? x
those tube maps they give you in any tube station are way too small, anyway, hence the confusion well at least partly. still I love London underground , it`s fascinating in every sense. period.
The square connector blobs in 1960 were to show connections with BR (see key at the bottom left) which wasn't a bad idea, although they do look a bit ugly.
Great vid Geoff after lockdown you going to visit Paddington massive changes at the station at the moment was around there on Sunday be great for you to tell us about all the building changea there
Come on Geoff we want to see your dream map of Paddington
In the best possible way, I would like to contribute congratulations on your SPECTACULARLY fluent triumph of nerdery. If there were a Pulitzer prize for obsessive tube-itis you'd get it. I laughed so much.
It's one of those occasions where you stare at a word for too long and it loses its visual identity and meaning to become squiggles, especially when three turn up at once on one map! And if you say it three times the bear will appear, probably.
Good video, oddly enough I was thinking about this conundrum only yesterday.
In my perfect world, I like the Bakerloo on the outside as it looks neater, but the H&C Paddington should only ever be shown as a stand alone station not connected to the others as there is a good 5min walk between them, the only exception perhaps being a connector blob with the purple line
But it DOES have National rail connection, so it should be shown as that
@@AndreiTupolev It does but your average tourist is going to use Prade street and then wonder why they've had to change at Edgware Rd if heading east, while the commuters (and locals heading to Hammersmith) know that the trick to not having to change at Edgware Rd is catching a train from the H&C station; in a way it sorts the men from the boys
I do see how inconvenient it will be for Londoners who are using Crossrail to change at Liverpool Street and Paddington Station to Continue their journey to Heathrow or Reading.
Great video. Is it okay if you could explain how to get to Liverpool Street from Paddington via the circle line? As I'm very confused by all the lines and all the stations at Paddington so would appreciate someone explaining where to go at Paddington and what to expect.
Geoff Marshall addressing an issue I never knew I needed addressing, until Geoff addressed it! Amazing that it took 80 years to represent the Bakerloo Line correctly, showing that it only connects with the District Line station, but it was a fleeting glimpse of accuracy 😂
I did know it needed addressing because the in my opinion poor way it's shown on the tube map once caused me to go to the wrong one and I know of at least one of my friends who's done the same thing
Re the naming issue: How about you name the Hammersmith line station "Bishops Road Paddington", the Circle line station "Paddington Praed Street" and the Bakerloo line one simply "Paddington" (or even with the Praed Street identifier, as the latter two appear to be -considered- one station). Could also be quite neat on the map - however you design it.
Very interesting. I've kind of noticed how the links at Paddington have been represented over the years, but of course not in this minute detail. 👏
Maybe we can next look at how differently Liverpool Street, Hammersmith or Charing Cross stations have been represented over the years, and why there are two Edgware Road stations. 👍🏾
He predicted the future
This makes me wonder. How would one draw the Stockholm Metro's central station?
Here it is just one blob with 3 (actually 7 tube lines, 1 tram and 2 regional trains) lines crossing it.
Though, the real fun part is to try to make a map of the station itself, since it is partly a 3d maze.
I love these videos, but, not even living in the UK any more, I always feel like I'm jumping down some weird niche obsession rabbit hole when I watch them. Not complaining in the least!
London has such a massive network. It's insane how big yet relatively easy to navigate they tube system is.