if i remember correctly, nabokov himself specifically requested not to put images of young girls on the covers of his novel. he definitely knew that some people would misinterpret lolita as some kind of "child seductress"
Yeah i was coming here to say that too! His exact quote, requesting cover art: "I want pure colours, melting clouds, accurately drawn details, a sunburst above a receding road with the light reflected in furrows and ruts, after rain. And no girls."
Fuck that's unfortunate since I have a copy of a young girl on it. Nabokov would be upset in this day and age if he knew what had been done to his literature.
Something that Hollywood needs to understand is that not every book should have a film adaptation. Unreliable narrators can be difficult to portray in a movie, since we see the world through a third-person view and not a first-person one.
one way you can do it, is show scenes of humberts perspective and him narrating and a scene through his account of an event, then show scenes of reality and how an event really happened more through the perspective of dolores with no narration
idk american psycho has a notoriously unreliable narrators and that turned out great! we just need the right scriptwriter and the right director who takes it seriously, rather than half-assing it
I was sexually assaulted by my step dad at 13 so to me Lolita is a horror story that hits too close to home. Some disgusting men actually believe an underage girl is ‘asking for it.’
the saddest part is that teenage Lana was having an affair with her English teacher when he first introduced her to the book Lolita. so it's very clear that she romanticized it, possibly due to his encouragement, as she was someone else's real-life "Delores". Lana was a victim of predation and grooming, and was unfortunately manipulated by the adult to think of it as a compliment.
@Leptune Cannet An adult looking 16 year old is not different from an child-like 16 year old. There's also a significant change in maturity within 2 years, specifically when you're a teenager, but honestly, that's not even the issue. I don't think 18 year olds should date anyone much older, as they're still young and can be manipulated. That becames worse when the person is their teacher, as they have an even bigger position of power than someone who is just older.
@Leptune Cannet I think anyone under 21 shouldn’t really be dating anybody that’s like 25+. There is a MASSIVE maturity difference between 16 and 18, and anyone who’s pretending there isn’t is most likely a 16 year old themselves who thinks they’re basically an adult. In the UK at least, 16 year olds are just finishing highschool- they’re doing exams, living with parents, and most likely don’t have a job. At 18 you’ve just finished college and are either moving on to uni or full time employment- you’re probably moving out of your parent’s house, worked a part time job, and had to really know how to be independent and manage yourself and your time to get through your a levels. Once you hit 21 you’ve been living in the adult world for a few years and you are MUCH more independent and mature. You’ll have your own source of income (whether it’s student loans or from a job) and this is VERY significant. A relationship between a 16 year old and a 30 year old has a massive maturity and power gap. The 16 year old doesn’t have their own money, they can’t drive, they can’t completely sustain themselves alone, which opens them up to a lot of exploitation and manipulation.
I think your point about how in the book she’s painted as a 14 year old KID and not a seductress- that it’s Humbert’s pervy perception/impression that actually sexualises her is absolutely perfect. The film should be redone as a horror/thriller 🤢
So right! Or like from the perspective of an abuse survivor, like uh... Nabokov himself was. The amount of people who don't understand Lolita is baffling to me.
It bears repeating: _her name isn't Lolita, it's Dolores Haze_ . This is super important, because it tells us that Humbert Humbert doesn't see her as an actual person. She's a concept or an item to him. Another important detail, from the novel, is Dolores becomes so desperate for it to stop she talks her friends into 'seducing' HH (this is unsuccessful and iirc he forces her to move again after this. Something he does every time it's close to being found out he's abusing his _stepdaughter_)
"delores is a spanish name, and shes explicitly described as tanned with brown hair" (...) "one of her nicknames was lola, and "lolita" roughly means little lola in Spanish. adding ita or ito is affectionate or making something smaller than the original word. which makes the lolita nickname creepier in my opinion." Just a quote from a comment i found interesting!
@@KoraWade Yeah. It's calling a random hispanic girl Senorita. It sounds like he's trying to make her this exotic pet that he got from a foereign land.
i never knew she was named dolores lolol. i can confirm, the common nickname for dolores is Lola. adding -ita to names is a very common and normal way of creating the diminutive form of that noun. the direct translation would be "little lola". adding the diminutive -ita/o to people's names is considered a term of endearment, typically by family, and most commonly towards young kids. so, her mom (for example) calling her lolita would be completely normal and expected. on the other hand, i think in this book it is used to further infantilize her, or portray a twisted sense of affection edit: lolita IS her name tho. unless she specifically says she doesnt enjoy nicknames. the same way a "matt" would be able to say thats their name, even if their full legal name is matthew lol. its not weird for the diminutive form of ur name to be considered your name
@@emma-rdgs in the scene where he licks her eyeball, he describes the "blonde down of her brown limbs" at the beach he describes her "long, brown legs" he calls her his "brown flower" later when threatening her of what will happen if she tells. He does mention pale skin, but only of a sex worker earlier in the book. He mentions a girl with ivory pale legs, but this is a girl around lolitas age, not lolita herself. He constantly mentions that Lolita gets tanner in the sun, and makes frequent mention of her arms and legs being dark. I don't know where you found him mentioning her being pure and pale, but I can find dozens of examples of him calling her brown.
bruh the way people are attracted to Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer etc, disgusts me. Someone in my grade really asked me if I have favorite serial killer not the fictional ones. I-
Like Richard Ramirez... That guy went on a murder-rape spree, got arrested and on his trial there were literally fan girls surrounding the court building. And one of his fans made her way to the jury. The fan girls also petitioned for his re-trial when he got convicted. All cause he was visually cute. Bruh.
i remember reading once that when nabokov taught at cornell university, a few of his female students showed up to his home dressed at Dolores on Halloween. he described the situation as terrifying
He said the he was glad that people had started romanticizing it while he was still alive so that he could let everyone know that he had absolutely nothing to do with it
I feel so bad for laughing 😭 That must've been horrifying for him though. Poor guy
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The fact that in the book Humbert literally says that nymphets are girls just older than 10 but never over 13-14 because they lost their “magic” after becoming more mature girls simply talks by itself and if no grown director could catch that it’s disgusting
@@Lin_EileenWasn’t Lolita supposed to be a book from the monsters perspective? From what I gather it’s anti-pedophile but just was to show how they see girls, and maybe written at a time when a lot of people didn’t understand how pesophiles thought.
I think Pretty Little Liars also contributed to this with the character Alison reading Loltita and being presented as mysterious, older than her age kind of girl that others would strive to be like.
What makes me mad is that when girls are groomed by older men and the situation comes out, the girl is seen as the problem. I know someone who married a high school teacher/coach in high school. He was married before and left his wife for her. He ended up getting fired and this 16 year old girl was not allowed to be left alone with any male staff member at the school and she was basically made to feel like the perpetrator. She was 16 and he was a grown as man with a mortgage and a family! It’s so gross.
It look more like a way to protect her from any possible grooming again rather than seeing her as the problem unless the school specifically states she is the issue in this situation but I think it was used to protect her from any more possible grooming by men since it happened once and she is very vulnerable to it happening again since she pursued a relationship with an older guy she's not the issue but she is very young so she will make bad decisions that can impact her life by getting involved in more potential grooming situations.
"grooming" is not a thing other than a self-defense mechanism made up by older females once their very limited shelf life has expired to try to retain the idea that they have value and can command. you have no value as a human being.
I actually think a good way to adapt Lolita would be to never actually have her onscreen. Glimpses of body parts, but never showing her, just imagery, like her clothing, her things, stuff that would show the audience how much of a child she is. You'd just hear her with a voice actress that just needs to sound young. It would also play well into Humbert's narcissism and make it harder for him to get a sort of an antihero aura about him.
And by doing this the story could have a more horror aspect which it needs coz it’s not a happy love story and it’s a horror story almost and I think a film with a Dolores who only speaks and is never shown would add that
I’ve been angry about how the adaptations completely miss the point of the original story for years now. It’s made so incredibly clear in the book that Dolores is a child. She is not a seductress. Humbert Humbert is a monster, lying to himself about Dolores’ nature in order to excuse himself from the immense damage he is doing. It’s a damn good book. It does the exact opposite of romanticising or excusing abuse. I cannot say the same for the adaptations, and that pisses me off. It misses the entire point of the story.
Humbert Humbert isn’t even lying to himself. He knows what he is. He makes excuses for himself and continues to things worse. He only cares about how the reader, the audience, his jury thinks of him. How he appears. He’s a narcissist.
Absof*ckinglutely. The entire book is him attempting to bullshit his way out of suffering consequences for something that he knew was wrong at the time , but every time he admits that, he starts showing his ass when his narcissism shows up and demands that he attempt to defend himself by making shit up. It's no accident that Dolores' POV is left out of the book.
I read somewhere that Nabokov specifically demanded that there were no images of young girls printed on the cover of Lolita! It's very telling that publishers are not honouring his wish 🙄
Well...regardless of what was on the cover, the book is ABOUT a minor in a sexual relationship with an Adult. Imagery isn't the only sin. Written words are as powerful as the image they carry. I never read the book but I know it's not a book I'd want to read. I do know it has very little to do with the modern concept of "Lolita".
@@myst.leissa it's fine if you don't want to read it but it doesn't actually romanticize the abuse, idk if that what you mean just wanted to point that out
@@myst.leissa i mean like the whole point of the book was to be an insight onto a sick sick man who was abusing this poor girl, its a character study on H.H., not just writing a child with an adult as you would another generic romance/erotica. thats partly why Nabokov wanted there to NOT be any girls/sexy imagery on the cover, and why in one of his statements about the novel he wanted there to be a nature scene. the whole purpose of putting a sexy image or girl on the front is to grab people in because "sex sells" and its essentially carrying on humberts view of lolita as an object. thats why a lot of other covers instead depict symbolic images of childhood being shattered or even representatives of humber himself, because it is not lolita's story in the slightest, its about humbert and his gross view of her and the world. its fine to say "yeah this book isnt for me" but to misinterpret the book as a romance/glorifying it in any way when it basically screams at you THIS IS BAD AND ABUSIVE is really misinformed
@@myst.leissa You're dismissing the book without having read a word of it so you don't get to shit on it. Yes, written words are powerful. The book makes you realise what a masterful job it's possible to do at crafting an unreliable narrator. It's not a 'sin' to write something. It's a HORRIBLE subject, but so is murder - and suggesting American Psycho or Crime and Punishment are bad for being written from a murderer's perspective is pretty dumb too.
I think one of main problem is whole:"Girls grow up quicker then boys" teaching needs to be rooted out. And also I can't even imagine how Nabukov would feel with how his book is perceived today. Also we need to stop romanticizing dating man who could be our father or even worse grandfather age.
Ikr. The only way that line of thinking is true is that normally girls hit puberty first. But that like only within like 2 to 3 years. Its not like when girls hit 12, then suddenly their ready for marriage.
The phrase "girls mature faster than boys," means a girl is ready to have children, faster than a boy is ready to support a family Its phrase that defined women as breeders, and is ironically very used by feminists as empowerment
Lolita never consented to anything. It’s portrayed as “love” because it’s seen from Humbert’s pov and he was a disgusting man who was in love with a literal child. This is not a love story but his pov makes it look like it because he believed that’s what he believed it was.
I mean, the character made it pretty clear that he did not care a single whit about the kid's well being. It didn't even look like a love story, there was no love involved there whatsoever.
For anyone interested in this topic you should read the memoir Being Lolita by Alisson Wood!it’s a memoir that talks about her own personal experience of basically being coerced into playing the role of “Lolita” by her high school english teacher. It’s a heavy read but I really recommend since it gives a lot of insight of how the narrative of H.H. in Lolita so often gets misconstrued by the reader and how dangerous that can be.. especially for young girls who see Lolita as an icon
I just finished reading it literally yesterday. I highly recommend the book, the chapters aren’t long and it doesn’t shy away on explaining the experience and impact of trying to play the role of Lolita.
GOD I read Lolita in high school and really enjoyed it but adapting it into a movie is a huge mistake. The bulk of the appeal of that book is the prose, both how Humbert unreliably narrates the story which makes you think twice about everything you're reading and how he's constantly putting in these bilungual puns and literary flourishes and other things that make it so you can keep reading the book over and over and get something new out of it every time. The issue is that you can't really convey any of that in film and without that it's just... a story about a pedophile.
I agree that the absolute genius of Nabokov, how he could build sentences and story lines is a massive impact when you read the book. And thi si all lost in the movie.
@Queen queen It's not though, that's the whole point of the book. Humbert Humbert is an unreliable narrator because of how he beautifies the dsigusting nature of the acts.You aren't supposed to sympathise with him and the author doesnt expect you to.
As if young teeneage girls can't do anything. They are completely innocent until the turn 18, right? That doesn't mean Humbert is any less guilty though.
@@peterwallis4288 a 14 year old girl brushing past a grown man as she walks through the garden is not trying to seduce him. To indicate that she might be is extremely worrisome.
@@gemmaryan5095 I don't see how. Neither the director, nor I, are saying that Humbert is not completely guilty. But be real, girls that age obviously can very flirty, including with older men. It's clearly the responsibility of the man to politely reject any advances.
@@gemmaryan5095 I understand Humbert is an unreliable narrator, but it's completely plausible she did have a crush on him. In which case, it's completely plausible she would try to flirt with him. I've seen that type of thing in class, with a young male teacher. As I said, it would not make Humbert any less guilty, or any less of a monster, for taking advantage of a young girls crush.
It's a completely valid theory that Delores may not have been flirting with him in the beginning. I mean, it is all written from Humbert's perspective. I have always thought that she had a crush on him, and was flirting with him, in the beginning. Then he took advantage of that, and she wanted to get out of the situation but couldn't. Because at that age, you are naive and you don't think things though very well. I still think that's quite likely. As I say, I have seen girls of that age being really flirty with a younger male teacher. If thats were the case, that would not make him any less bad.
a lot of the girls who obsess over lolita are at that age where it’s common to start feeling some attraction to older men. the problem is the community encourages diving deeper into those feelings. they’re opening themselves up to abuse and i pray that they get out of it before that can happen.
thankyou for commenting this. when i was 8 i started being introduced to.. pedos and bdsm. i was traumatized and for a long time i was in love with the idea of being abused. im 13 now trying to get better, but it hurts when people blame me when i didnt know better. i was just taught to be quiet and like it
@@littleone2136 don’t let anyone blame you for the harm done to you in the past. i’m giving you my best wishes to grow and flourish as you work to heal your trauma, you have great things ahead of you. i know it!!
I love how you don't blame everything on teenage girls like a lot of people like to do while criticising stuff like this. People will take any chance to hate on women ugh
@@Faolair oh no I wasnt being sarcastic, I recently watched a video similar to this and the creator was just shitting on teenage girls the whole time and it really upset me. I'm genuinely glad Jordan understands the bigger picture and doesn't blame them
I read Lolita in 8th grade (14 yo) for a book report and remember getting very mixed and worried reactions from the adults around me. I went into the book knowing that it was a heavy subject. I had celebrity crushes on older actors, but I found huge age gap relationships with young women disturbing in real life. However, many girls in my class would brag about "talking to men as old as 24". They would do this in secret because they knew I would try to talk them out of it. When it came time to talk about the book to the class, I made sure to say that although the story is interesting, ultimately, it's a story about a creepy old man preying on a young girl roughly our age. I wish I could say that the girls in class actually listened to what I said, but the only ones creeped out were the boys.
I just finished Lolita and it took all of freshman year. I didn't really get any concerned reactions from any of my teachers but some kids did call me a pedo for reading it. Still, it's not a bad book like so many people paint it out to be, and that's the main reason I picked it up and decided to read it.
Another problem that I find out is the normalization of the “sugar baby” especially on Tik Tok, I see so many girls under the age saying stuff like “oh my dream job, my future job, I’m not gonna study because I’m gonna be a sugar baby”... It’s terrifying to me that little girls are romanticizing their future life with jobs that only older people should be considered on that freaking app.
ye thats a huge problem when i was like fifteen i made the mistake of being a sugar baby because tiktok made it look cool and ended up in a relationship with a forty year old
That’s so true, i really don’t like how it became so much normalized being a sugar baby... like you literally have grown people on tiktok talking about how it’s so easy to make money but they never talk about about the dark side of it and how it affects you mentally. And no older man will just send you money just for talking, all men in those sites want something sexual in return. Like you really have teen girls and boys thinking they can play men much older than then and with much experience. Same thing with Of
@@angelicinternetuser Yes! Guys I’m so sorry! My first language is not English, so it was a mistake. So sorry if you understood something wrong, it wasn’t my intention at all!
I have a friend who's 20 and dating a 32 year old. She can do whatever she wants, but what gets me is that she says "I like mature men," and I just think, hon if a man is going after a girl that much younger than him, is he really a mature man?
Exactly! I have some friends who are the same and even though 20 year olds are adults I believe they are still quite immature since a lot of maturing takes place throughout your twenties. Any man over 30 who is into 18-21 year old girls really disturbs me.
That’s the thing. They aren’t. I date a 33 year old and I’m 22. I can tell that my bf is NOT A MATURE 33 y/o. HOWEVER, he is more mature than a regular 20 year old in terms of goals and what he wants of life. This is not common in 20y/os, BUT I do believe that there is more context than that, as maturity is not a matter of age and being in an age gap relationship is not a synonym of grooming or immaturity.
I was in an abusive relationship with an older man, who “kidnapped me” in a way. When I read Lolita and saw the movie, I felt connected to her. Both of us young trapped in a relationship with an older man. At 18 I tattooed Lolita on my hand, but now I’m 21 and no longer relate to her or want to be reminded of this time in my life so I’m getting it lasered off.
this was a great way to explain it. may i suggest that u talk about the romantiziation of serial killers? because thats been a huge thing on tiktok too. they have literal fan accounts dedicated to ted bundy... and most of the fan accounts are run by young girls. it's disturbing.
exactly this. and the people saying every boy with curly hair (and also latinos with curly hair) look like richard ramirez as if it's a compliment are extremely weird.
@@db3015 ur so right, it’s literally so weird to say that as if it was compliment and as if richard ramirez was “cute” he was a monster, it’s so messed up :,)
yanno ed's are romanticized there too? espescially ana. i hate that app so much it can be so draining sometimes. and tiktok is terrible about deleting these types of people uness attention is brought to them. just freaking gross.
@@blissin444 exactly! tiktoks HR needs some help fr, they are not on top of things even if it gets reported multiple times and then they remove children’s innocent tiktoks for “adult nudity” simply disappointing
One of my friends boyfriend literally said that it's downhill for women after 30 and that men get better with age.. It's so disgusting how comfortable some people are with being sexist. Btw, my friend turned 27 a couple of days ago so what is he going to do when she's 30? It makes me so sick.
@No U yes, I've been wrapping my head around how to bring it up. Unfortunately she always apologizes for his behavior. He once called me a bitch when he was drunk and she made excuses for him. Ugh.
It's sad that she isn't married yet, he is just using her for sex, if he was serious about her he would have put a ring on her finger a long time ago. It may be too late for her to find another man but it's not hopeless for her to live a better life away from him.
Yeah there is a whole Redpill/The Manosphere community of men that says the same thing... That women "hit the wall" as soon as they become thirty and that men remain attractive for much longer... It's so weird
@@randompanda2391 ikr? It's not like most older men are bald and have bigger bellies. I mean, if you're attractive and you take care if yourself you're probably gonna be attractive later in life. But most of these dudes were never even good looking in the first place. So turning 30,40,50 is not gonna magically make them handsome lmao.
relieved to hear you distinguish "lolita" the Japanese fashion/subculture from "lolita" the soft grunge romanticization of aesthetics from the Nabokov adaptations. it's weird how the same name is used for two completely different lifestyle/fashion subcultures enjoyed by young women on the internet. great video! i love your nuance, respect, and professionalism. and it's no problem taking a mental health break, take as much time as you need. :)
I feel like I hear a lot of fans of Lolita fashion also find this frustrating. They should try to get together and change the name. Otherwise I fear they are doomed to have to explain it to skeptical people forever. It just seems impossible to hope that the word Lolita will ever NOT be associated with ped0ph1lia
when i was 14 i met a 27 year old man. when i reached the age of concent, 15, we stared dating, it lasted 3 years. even though he was good to me, and cared for me, i still have trauma responses when i think about it too much. the age difference -in it self- messes you up. thank you for addressing this topic
@@ollieno971 yes, i wish the age of concent was older, at least when it comes to seeing ppl over 18. I know I wouldn't do it if I wasn't the age of concent. Thank you ♡
As a person who got groomed at a young age, it isn’t fun. It literally made me want to end it all more than i did before. It’s not this pretty, secret relationship. It’s the constant fear that you’re going to get caught and blamed by those you love, it’s literally relying on the person to “save” you from the dark shitty place you’re in but they only make it much worse. I also don’t blame anyone who did this, because we all make mistakes, but grooming isn’t such a thing to romanticise
Nabokov actually wrote a 400-page script for the Kubric adaptation, but got told it was too long and not appropriate for cinema, so they ended up shortening and changing a lot. Nabokov was not happy with the end result, and I can imagine he would be even more upset with the 1997 adaptation...
I think when most girls say this we're thinking about the aesthetic of an older man like rugged, handsome, rich, wanting to spoil you and give you lots of attention. And not the actual saggy skinned, manipulative, pathetic guys that they are.
@No U yes of course. I should have written it better. What I meant was girls might not be having the whole picture in they're head when it comes to these types of relationship. Now look at some of those soft grunge daddy issues posts, certain Lana videos(I'm not dissing Lana here btw) they're very stylized and polished. Things like that can lead to romanticization of these toxic age gap relationships. Looks of course don't matter when someone's talking advantage of another person.
Absolutely. I had a casual relationship with a 34 year old man when I was about 21 years old, the whole attraction and sexual tension we had to each other was based on the age gap.. It was definitely a dd/lg bdsm relationship, I liked his rough hands, he'd also been in a band when he was a bit younger, he was essentially a grown up punker with dad energy (and I had been through a lot of trauma and missing a father figure in my life). Now being 27 and seeing he's a 40 year old man and noticing how much he has aged in those couple years I don't think I could do it anymore, I also feel too mature and confident to be as submissive to someone as I was back then. In those years and now I never wanted to actually date him because I could see the red flags from miles away, literally all his girlfriends are the same age as me too. He clearly has a lolita complex thing going, he's not into 'young looking women' necessarily but he definitely thrives off of being some sort of mentor/father figure to a younger woman.
As someone who dated a 36-year-old man when I was a 19-year-old "woman", I completely agree with your points about manipulation and power imbalance. 30-year-old women just aren't as "fun" because we typically prioritize our well-being over someone else's entertainment by that point.
I mean, I dated a 31 year old when I was 17 (I'm 18 now) and it wasn't pedophilic/predatory in any way. In fact, nothing very "$exual" ever happened and nothing ever happened w/o my consent. Although he did seem like a high schooler himself, I already look much younger than I actually am (13/14 at best) and when he first met my friends, they thought he was 17. I could def feel the age gap with his friends tho but all in all, it wasn't bad for me. I have nothing but good things to say about that guy, unfortunately long distance relationships aren't my thing so I broke up when I left for univ but yeah, he's a great man. I get where you're coming from though and I hope you heal, sending you love!
@@nini-qc1qd this isn’t okay :( i’m sorry that you thought that it is. a 31 year old has no business being with a 17 year old at his big age. i’m sorry:(
@@jenjenxox224 thank you for your concern! Like I said, nothing very 4exual ever happened and he didn't even know how old I was at first. All of his girlfriend before me and after me have been older/around his age. I do understand your concern but my relationship wasn't abusive, I know this isn't the case with most people so I see your point:)
@nini a 30 year old “dating” a 17 year old is inherently pedophilic. Full Stop. If you had a 17 year old child you wouldnt want them in romantic contact with a 30 year old in any capacity sexual or not.
I always find the romanticising of toxic relationships very strange and the way the media feeds into it even more strange. I suppose it does aid the patriarchal domination of women, which is probably why it remains.
Yeah, when my teacher h*rrased me I felt like it was my fault and not the other way around. Like it was the fault of how I look, how I dress etc. But also makes you feel glad (or something) because you get better grades. It is this power disbalance that's just terrible.
It's not strange really... The answer is Occam's razor here... Simply that, as It's for media content, toxic and volatile relationships contain far more drama and excitement... much bigger emotions and actions that translates into a more interesting media. safe and healthy/normal relationships just don't appeal as much and it's easy to see why. The issue is when people try to immitate media into real life and model relationship on something that is meant to be a depiction of an extreme for a good story. .... Or maybe people crave excitement and a good story and drama in their lives which is why sometimes people don't always pick healthy and safe options. We are human after all.
@@domtekos7761 errr that’s not quite the same as literal pedo and ephebophilia though. Normal people are not interested in those things, and you can have drama without them
the sexualization of girls with daddy issues and trauma surrounding men definitely contributes to why these young girls want to be a lolita replica. men will literally fantasize ab young women (specially teenagers) who have problems with their fathers. it’s actually so sickening because most of those men are looking for these women bc they’re usually easier/more prone to being manipulated.
Its so normalized even now like wtv that somg was that sweater weather or whatever made. Even if it was made about a guy with daddy issues bonding wit a girl wit daddy issues the execution was TERRIBLE😭 ppl thought it was an older guy that was attracted to a girl with daddy issues. Especially the line “And if you were my little girl id run away and hide with you” its so nasty i hate them for this😭
I’m so glad you mentioned how significantly older men dating barely legal girls is still creepy, people always say well “age is just a number” and that they are consenting adults...but like why are older men going for such young girls?? I feel like they are attracted to teenage girls and date the closest ones that are morally and legally acceptable
if theyre above 22 or something then its fine. If its situations like a 22 yo girl dating a 50 year old man, he's probably a sugar daddy, thats its own thing entirely.
Just because it’s creepy or weird does not mean it’s not reality, men are genetically wired to go for the youngest girl they can for reproductive purposes, and young girls are wired to be with older men for resources which help survival, just the way it is and anyone else saying otherwise are copeing, when I was 14 I knew 4 13 yo girls dating guys in their 30s. It’s a disturbing reality. Humans are monsters
@Una bolsa de pepsi y una lata de lays i think that in some countries there isn’t even an age of consent, and you just need to be married. i think that’s very dangerous. nigeria’s age of consent is about 11 i think, correct me if i’m wrong it may be older.
lolita is my favorite book and the point is not that humbert is able to trick the reader into sympathizing with a pedophile through fancy prose, the whole point is that he isn’t. he’s delusional and unable to look at himself for what he is - the fancy prose is apart of it. he fully admits to taking advantage of dolores in this book, acknowledges that dolores herself is more often than not disgusted by him (she even calls him a rapist at one point), and describes another man (quilty) who behaves exactly as he does as vile and disgusting - he is holding a mirror straight to his face yet refusing to look at it. he genuinely does not see things the way they happened - so while it’s eloquently written because that’s the way he sees it, it’s still a disgusting confession. as much as he tried to conceal his own vulgarity he only revealed it. his actions never match his words, it’s my favorite part of the book and the cognitive dissonance is completely lost in film. i think kubrick did his best with the quilty/humbert double theme and giving quilty a larger role, but he horrifically misrepresented dolores. the book can not be adequately translated well to film without caution, especially when the message of the book is easily and often overlooked.
It’s interesting because I watched the original film after having read the book and I think certain scenes still kept the characterization of him as completely delusional and creepy. They’re definitely spaced out for the shock value but when you don’t romanticize the relationship it hammers that point home
@@shanelbryant5638 Yeah Stanley Kubrick’s adaptation is way better because the actress is never exploited, and there is no sexuality, just the implication. The 90s version disturbed me, and it is meant to be a disturbing story, but I don’t think they should have added sexually explicit scenes.
I agree. I think Kubrick did the best film can be expected to do. What Dolores looks like is irrelevant. But what she looks like in Humbert's false narrative is very relevant, to the director who can't rely upon the audience's imagination.. The key is to not let Humbert's narrative distract you from the reality. Nabokov can, and must do that, in order to avoid it becoming no more than beautifully written CP. I think the marketing of the film plays on the false narrative, it's a horror, with the world's leading comedy actor. I feel it needs to be remembered that Quilty's character , in the film, is also part of Humbert's false narrative, and as such we see Humbert try to paint Quilty as the real monster, when he accuses Humbert. Quilty's open flaunting of his abuse is despicable, Humbert is a poor victim of the nymphets that monsters like Quilty groom into existence. Sellers' comedic portrayal ridicules Humbert's entire narrative, in case it was required.
I remember when I read Lolita in my Lolita phase when I was 15, one of the reviews on the back of the book said it was “the most convincing love story ever written” and that really biased my reading of it even more :| and the cover art was very suggestive of like sexualized or romanticized Lolita child-like stuff
I just got my copy to look at the reviews and on my edition it is described as a ‘comedy’ 🤢 and also has the words ‘poor doomed humbert’ on it.... not poor Delores?? Actually vile
I don't understand why the mainstream perception of the book is that of a love story. I mean Theresa just explained how the movies play into it, but I seriously cannot imagine what's in the minds of these reviewers and publishers who play up the point of view of the creep in the story.
@@dianana7371 honey what. where did u hear that?? it's so wrong, it was only published on playboy after he was long dead... he's not a 'sick' man, he literally first published the book w/ the most plain cover n didn't allow any imagery in its book covers that showed the image of a young girl, being very strict abt what ppl could write on back covers n such. he makes it extremely clear in the book that hh is an unreliably narrator, so therefore, we should take everything written by hh w/ a grain of salt. dolores herself is written, as, u know, a child, w/ absolutely no glamourization. she's a bit of a brat, she's gross, she acts like how a 12 yr old should. nabokov handled the heavy topics extremely well.. the movies r another story.
Heard this in a podcast, "If a guy says 'you're mature for your age,' RUN 🏃♀️. Don't engage." This is in a context of a mid twenties guy pursuing an 18 year old. Most because they throw that out as a compliment to susceptible young women. I even had a guy ask me out on e because he thought he was getting himself a young woman. I was 28 and he thought that I was 22; turns out, this guy was 36. I blocked him after that conversation.
something i always think is, that if you're in a romantic relationship with someone or heading towards a romantic relationship, there should be no reason to say, "you're mature for your age". If your boyfriend or girlfriend is saying that to you, they're either viewing you as a child/kid or manipulating you. it's weird af. skedaddle away from that situation as quick as possible.
I think it's too late to comment here, but it actually makes sense. I met an older man, when I was 15 years old, between the two of us there is a difference of 23 years, he told me this exact phrase, as time passed he moved on to intimate matters. And today I don't know what this relationship actually is, because there were moments of conversations, but sometimes he made sexual jokes. I ended up having intimate moments with him and I feel very guilty.
Any movie, that portrayed Lolita as something aesthetically pleasing absolutely failed at the very basis of the movie. You are not portraying something nice, you are portraying a disgusting, depressing, disturbing situation, don’t make it nice, make it awful. All these movies had a chance to open viewers eyes regarding grooming and pedophilia, yet they romanticized it
its kubricks fault! the man is an abuser. i used to enjoy his films but ever since i learned about how he treated shelly duvall on the set of the shining i kinda stopped liking him
Your experience as a 16 year old reminded me of one of my boyfriends. I was 19 when we first started dating. He was 30. I felt the exact same way you did when you left the party. I thought I was so cool for sleeping with/dating an older man, who was very smart, worldly, and foreign. It took me a while to admit it, but I liked the idea of us more than the actual relationship. We were definitely not equals. I was still depending on my mom’s allowance whereas he was years out of college. That isn’t okay. Young women should focus on themselves and grow up before pursuing older men. And older men need to back the fuck off from teenagers.
holy fuck, u perfectly worded what I had been thinking but couldn’t put into words. “i liked the idea of us more than the actual relationship”. thank you
@@aurevoirchu6313 lmao but these older men are already doing something wrong if they can't get a woman their age and feel justified to be with someone who gives them an unhealthy power dynamic, what are you in about dude?
once the goverment get serious about banning "barely legal" porn and jailing men who do pedophilic stuff and whenn MEN hold men accountable thats when things will get better for woman
It’s so gross how the director in the interview was acting like Delores having bare feet made her a seductress 🤢 it disgusts me how much of the blame is put onto victims- always the classic of “she was asking for it” and blaming the clothes women wear. Repulsive.
"legality does not always corelate with morality" this! thanks you for saying this because ive been trying to explain this to people who dont see an issue with age gap relationships the second the youngest turns 16. just because its barely legal, doesnt mean its right. if its in the grey area then its probably not a good idea.
The one scene in the 97 film where they’re in some hotel and basically we see them have intercourse on a chair… the way it was filmed really made me feel awkward and uncomfortable. And watching the interview with the director really showed how much even he was romanticizing the relationship. It was gross tbh
It's disgusting bc he purposely fuels sexual tension between the two characters. One which is a CHILD. And in the interview the director makes himself look like such a predator
If that’s the scene with the comic, that wasn’t even in the book. And yes make no mistake the director who’d solely made erotic fatale attraction films before Lolita knowingly romanticized it. He added in a few more unnecessary scenes that weren’t in the book, that we’re definitely “romantic”. It’s sickening
Idk how anyone could watch that movie as a “comfort film” or a “love story”. It’s insanely uncomfortable and I was genuinely disturbed and depressed after watching it. It just gives you this sinking feeling
I feel like Lana is a type of person to romanticize her trauma as a coping mechanism and make it out to be art. Partly there’s nothing wrong with that but obviously when you’re that famous there are gonna be a lot of people who are gonna take it the wrong way
But you don’t know if she’s even doing that. We don’t know her life story. So this comment is just a projection. Let’s not blame young teenagers for “taking it the wrong way.” Elizabeth Grant is an adult who’s responsible for her own behavior.
The problem I think as well is that Lana's fanbase is young, they're not adults and they aren't able to understand nuance they take everything at face value.
i feel like a woman writer director would nail lolita as an aesthetic tragic horror (midsommar vibes) movie accurately portraying how innocent dolores actually was and how creepy and narcissistic humbert was. men really dont get it like they for real think LITTLE GIRLS are seducing them. too many pedos on the loose. every time you're insecure about something just stop and think: is this beauty trend pedophilic (if it's not then it's probably racist but that's another story).
@@Drek492 just because the book was written by a man doesn’t mean there isn’t a clear track record of men misinterpreting it. A woman could still misinterpret it but I agree that I think a woman would do a better job.
@@Drek492 i'm aware. i just don't think the current men in hollywood are responsible enough to produce a film adaptation that captures the message of the book. they have proved that multiple times. i and many others would like a woman's take on it.
@Baie des villes Oh yea, I remember the infamous Brittany Zamora case. I don't believe in death penalties but she should've gotten one. Such a horrible, creepy person. Instead she only got 25 years or something
When I was 14 I had a short relationship with a boy of 19 almost 20. Luckily, he never got to anything sexual because we lasted very little, but I remember hearing him saying that he did want to. Now, being 19 years old, I am disgusted. I remember thinking it was super cool because an older boy had looked at me. I also had a friend who dated a 24-year-old man while she was 15. Nobody thought anything wrong because we were all just as immature as she was. But now, being older, we are horrified. It's terrible how these relationships are sometimes normalized, and how this type of teaching can make us believe that we are super popular because an older boy looked at us. When they have to be in jail
when i was a young girl online i would get older men trying to get pics and make moves on me. i would give them fake pictures of women from google and give them completely fake information then ghost and report them when i got bored lol. it was a relatively safe way to explore all that bs as a child without actually putting myself at risk.
While I was on exchange in France at 15, a classmate who was also 15 was dating a 26-year-old. They shared a hotel while on holiday together, with her parents support, so they were being intimate I am sure and this seemed to be common knowledge which her parents and other parents of classmates were OK with (at least that's what they made everyone believe; who knows what they thought privately). When I told my parents about this later, expressing my shock and disgust, my dad just said (a little shocked too) "well, that's France for you!" It's been years since that but I still think about the whole situation. I had no interest in dating until recently so wouldn't have been at much risk of being groomed, and I did hold on to my disgust at large age-gap relationships involving young people, so thank god it had no negative effects by putting me at risk. But I'm still horrified at the response by every adult involved for treating this like an acceptable situation that's only a little unusual but we should just move on from and leave be. These adults had a responsibility to unequivocally condemn this from the start and let every child around know this man's behaviour was unacceptable. It's more than the person being groomed and raped, it's the children around who hear about these things and see them that need to also see them as bad in order to know to seek help if they find themselves being groomed and to know that this man is not in love with them: he's manipulating them and is a creep. (people of all genders can be pedophiles though also) Anyway I hope to be the type of adult now to not make these mistakes and to protect kids as best I can from horrible things.
When you're 14, 19 doesn't even seem like that big of a difference? You think you're almost an adult yourself so 19 doesn't sound that old. But when you're 19, 14 is literally a child. You look back at yourself at that age and realise there is a HUGE difference. I'm sorry for what you (and your friend) went through ❤️
Also that's why it's so easy for older guys to prey on younger girls. You may have felt mature for a 14 year old but that 19 year old knew you were a child. I hope he never got to any other young girls.
The edition of Lolita that I have has a close up of a freckled child as the cover. No makeup, no seductive pose, just an obviously very little girl looking directly into the camera in a sombre way. I think that it takes the subject matter seriously, has an appropriate tone, and serves to remind you that Dolores is an abused little kid - not a seductress with heart shaped sunglasses and cherry red lipstick, which is the impression that first time readers might be coming to the book with, thanks to the movies.
True! Glad that your copy was more sensitive with the cover although I would like to say that although your copy’s cover was not the target for his words, the author did say that he didn’t want ANY girls on the cover of any published copies of Lolita (which clearly everyone has disregarded/disrespected, and was a rule he tried to make precisely because of what they’ve done (made it seem sexual) and technically your edition doesn’t keep to this. Of course they probably didn’t know and they followed the spirit of his wish - just thought it was worth mentioning
The first time I saw the book it was just a 10 year old sat on grass and smiling in a normal, non seductive way. No different then pictures of me or my friends on family holidays
"nymphette", "coquette", "doelette" posts still exist on tumblr to this day. it's a lot more niche though, and it's mostly dominated by young girls with eating disorders or complicated relationships with older men in their lives. madison beer, ariana grande, nina sayers from black swan, the women of kpop and young vintage actresses are probably the the ones romanticized the most in that circle now.
You know, if only you knew the truth of what you speak, because you obviously don't...prejudice against the living is a sin; even if they are disabled.
We need a female director to make a lolita movie and maybe finally we will get a real adaptation that’s not just “cutesy aesthetic” and completely contradicts the point of the book.
Lolita was heavily popular on tumblr way before 2014. I got into it and out of it before 2013. Like super into it in like 2011-2012 Pictures of like really thin girls bodies with bruises, cute kid things, TONS of stills from the Lolita movie, p*rn gifs lol it was way worse back then I think
Yeah and then the tumblers *orn purge happened, since it had a lot of account using 'nymphet' in there 18+ posts. Tumblr took it as 18 and up and erased majority of the things on that tag unfortunately. People still to this day, use nymphet for there *orn post 🤢
it was such a cesspool back then lmao and i’ve heard it’s only gotten worse… sometimes i think i miss my tumblr phase but i’m reminded of all the weird shit that gets glorified on there and i remember that i’m better off without it
honestly as someone who's very active on aesthetic tumblr nowadays (especially things that can b considered nymphet although i'm a heavy supporter of #nokinknymphet) it's still the same, unfortunately
Literature is amongst my biggest passions in life, and I 100% agree. Note just the content, the format is definitely designed to be as unsettling as possible with out of place descriptions and the inside view of Humbert's madness. It's definitely a horror, not you're typically gore or gothic horror but horror none the less. I'd say it fits into the psychology horror genre mixed with a little horror crime minus the mystery element.
Absolutely! Reminds me of some old horrors that I loved, wherein the monster turned out to be the charming protagonist. Much more frightening than any monster from wherever.
@@WolfBitesAndSleepyGraves I genuinely feel that casting Peter Sellers, and framing it as a charming comedy, was playing up to the false narrative. Sellers' performance is pure comedy, but taken very seriously. These days you get a lot of comedy actors cross over to horror but it's never taken seriously. It really is a fascinating adaptation. I think it needs to be iterated that the Quilty character, in the film, is also purely false narrative. It is Humbert presenting Quilty, his accuser, as the bigger monster. An exaggerated caricature. Openly flaunting his abuses while poor Humbert remains an innocent victim of seduction.
@@happinesstan I completely agree. I feel like Lolita is a story that has to be told by someone with a good understanding of how it feels to be afraid of an adult. The misunderstanding of source material seems to come down to a really bizarre belief that any girl would be "grateful" for attention from an older man. That's why the discontinued Lolita musical is so bad and why the film seems to tell a completely different story, treating Humbert like a charming hero rather than an abuser. As well as this Dolores in the book is described as basically being a regular kid, there's descriptions of her doing gross kid things like picking her nose and playing with locks of her hair, cry and stamp when she's frustrated, I can vividly remember a line about her having "monkey-like nimbleness". These being described in detail by Humbert in the book make it clear that he's a creepy old man in every sense of the word. Sue Lyons is a wonderful actress but is older than Delores in the book and when on screen is required to act "seductively", and is depicted with perfectly styled hair, shaved legs and calm delicate movement. All of which make her seem older and more appealing to the male gaze. In a way the movie is almost like Humbert's ideal fantasy of what happened, rather than a solid retelling.
honestly Wattpad made me feel toxic relationships were fun and the emotional high was experience-worthy . This made me go on and date someone 13 years older and that was the worst time for my mental health :( I did romanticise a lot of it and regret it
there’s no doubt that tumblr, instagram, twitter etc impacted our childhoods growing up, but i still think it’s so insane the choke hold tiktok has on the current generation and society. everything is literally back in a loop of repetition, but somehow even worse than before??? it’s insane. it’s no secret that people like you are speaking up about the problems with such resurgences, but somehow the younger people still don’t care, even with the knowledge of its problems.
people also spoke up back in the day. maybe their opinions and voices weren't as accessible as now with video essays for example, but they did speak up. i wasn't in the soft grunge community, but i was in other online spaces i really should NOT have been and that i was way too young for (even though at the time i believed that i was "mature for my age", also because other online peers - that i later realised were grooming me - told me so); and for me personally, i simply thought that i was better than whatever dangerous/problematic/etc scenarios older people were describing. today, i look back and shiver at certain things i did, thought and saw, because i now understand what these older people were trying to point out. it's a teenage thing i think. you literally believe that it's not about you; and then you realise that you actually were a victim years later. maybe the style of conversation has to change to get through teens. this isn't the case for this video at all (i love it btw! just in case you're reading this jordan 🥰), but oftentimes the narrative seems very condescending and as if it was trying to entirely blame the teens for their behaviour, when the media is quite literally trying to romanticise certain topics by making everything look pretty so that teenagers feel like they almost have to follow it
Some people need to remember when thinking about age gap relationships is that just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s right. Sure, a 17 year old sleeping with a 25 year old isn’t illegal and could definitely be consensual, but there still is a power imbalance. Usually, age gap relationships aren’t a problem the older both people get (e.g. a 30 year old dating a 40 year old, etc).
I dated a 21yo when I was 18 and the power imbalance between me being a high schooler at the time and him already in uni and lined up for a job after was staggering looking back. I'm now 22 dating a 25yo guy for half a year and when we started dating I was kind of hung up by the age gap being the same as with guy number one. But yeah the difference between two university students, even between a bachelor's and aspiring PhD student is so much smaller than between a HS student 1 1/2 years from graduation and a uni student.
I think a 25 year old with a 17 year old would be skating on the edge of illegality surely. I was actually surprised you said it was legal. I don't know though. A power imbalance isn't limited to that though. How about a 22 year old university student with a 30 year old man with an established career? I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm just pointing that out.
@@myst.leissa to clarify, in a lot of states the legal age of consent is 16. This means that theoretically there are no consequences. However, since they are still a minor, the parents/legal guardians can still press charges against the older individual because of their children’s ages.
as someone who had this whole lolita nyphmet aesthetic, from watching the films and others (american beauty, jeune et jolie, poison ivy, the crush) etc and listening to ldr since i was 13... it's best not to get intertwined with this whole aesthetic. im 20 and i literally feel expired, stale and old when in reality im so young. oh and feeling less feminine as a poc and developing an ed bc all the girls were thin, white etc. so yeah sucks seeing this new wave, keep seeing tiktoks or new tumblr blogs made. :/
Even before the films came out Lolita was romanticized. Foreign editions of the novel featured cover art that is meant to look erotic, and it was even marketed as an erotic novel. Nabokov did not approve of this. Also for the Kubrikc film, Nabokov only allowed production to happen if he was credited for writing, but I don't believe he had the imput he hoped for.
@@joolzie3743 Yeah I heard a lot about him being disappointed of them ruining the message of his book. It least he didn’t live to discover Epstein’s Lolita express plane.
They made her 14 in the films because they thought that would make it less pedophillic than in the book when she was around 10 so that they could make her have a more developed body to sexualise. They seemed to think making her a young teenager made it better,but it's still grooming and it's disgusting and sick. Humbert is a vile predator hiding from his own twisted mind by convincing himself she's flirty,and the film industry failed to convey that and I'm very disappointed in them,if you can't do it right don't do it at all! Especially in such an important groundbreaking story!
While I get your point, and they probably were trying to make it "better", Dolores is 12-14 for most of the novel. Personally, I think it's probably more ethical to hire an older teenage actress for the role instead of acting out grooming a 10yo who probably doesn't know what's going on
They didn't fail to do anything of the sort. The film is a portrayal of Humbert's false narrative. The point is that Dolores is a world away from the character in Humbert's false narrative. Portraying that on film would be cumbersome, and is unnecessary. The audience is aware that she is a vulnerable child, what occurs on screen is horrific, putting it up there with some of the best horrors.I would agree that the film industry has not fully acknowledged it's quality, but I feel a lot of Kubrick's work is highly critical of the industry.
i know its small, but i feel like something worth mentioning is that in the book dolores is an olive-skinned latina girl, vs in the movie she's pale, blonde-haired, and blue eyed. i think that her whiteness definitely aided in her romanticization under the pale grunge aesthetic centered around very pale white girls.
@@ivy-io6wz I’ve read the book and I haven’t heard anything about her being Latina. Maybe her dad was Mexican? But that wouldn’t make sense because Charlotte is racist and ask Humbert Humbert if he’s a “strange strain of something?” Asking if he’s got any poc in his family
@@ivy-io6wz yeah! delores is a spanish name, and shes explicitly described as tanned with brown hair. its been a while since i read the book, so the specifics are blurry. this may have not been intentional on nabakov's part, but im pretty sure it was, that one of her nicknames was lola, and "lolita" roughly means little lola in Spanish. adding ita or ito is affectionate or making something smaller than the original word. which makes the lolita nickname creepier in my opinion.
@@elaescobar5263 oh yeah I think Dolly was born in Mexico, so there's a chance her dad carried Mestizo blood or was white passing and it carried over Dolly? I never considered it lmao. I always saw her as being olive skinned in my head who just tans well
@@alexisrobinson9180 i couldve been wrong, but i swore it was suggested in the book. that being said, charlotte can be racist and still have had a mestizo child. dolores is a spanish name and all
@@leiwue Your comment is so true. As long as there are humans and those reach teenage-hood these base interests and experiences and feelings are going to be brought up again and again, repeatedly for generations and that's just fine and natural. Us the newly grown ups should teach and guide them as our elders did.
skoda said it but there are going to be countless generations of new, naive people having to learn the same mistakes we did on their own terms, hopefully with the guidance of videos like this and people sharing their own experiences from the past. it’s sad but it’s life. there are always going to be 14 year old girls figuring themselves out and broadcasting their discoveries for people online. last generation was on tumblr, this generation it’s on tiktok, and there will be generations beyond zoomers that will get into their own weird teenage shit too.
There's a movie called The Tale (2018) that is based on the true story of the director being preyed upon by adults and coming to terms with it. Really well made but incredibly disturbing. If you decide to check it out, be warned, it holds no punches and is one of the most disturbing movies I've seen.
i think a lot of young girls say that they like older men because a lot of the time they aren't taken seriously (because society hates teenage girls 🙄) and having an older man, who people are socialised to think are mature and 'in charge', give them attention and the illusion of being taken seriously is what draws young girls to them
Absolutely. And having been groomed as a teen, being told I was so mature for my age at 17, it's sobering to now being an actual adult and men in their 40s and older still not taking me and my opinions seriously, because apperently 10 years later I'm suddenly too young to know anything (I'm 28).
Honestly thank you for making this. As weird as it may sound I was at the verge of tears by the end of the video. This made me realize how the whole tumblr-Lolita-nymphet-Lana del Rey-sugar daddy “aesthetic” has shaped the mindset + opinions I have over things till this day. When I was 14 I saw no problem in dating someone who was Over the age of 25. I developed lots of crushes on my male teachers and even almost ended up in a affair with one. I sexualized myself and my age. I’m 17, almost 18 now and I’m starting to feel extremely undesirable and “expired” now, which is not okay at all considering the fact that I’m soooo incredibly young. This video + the comments made me realize that this is not an okay mindset at all, but that I’m also not alone in this.
if lolita is anything it’s a horror not a romance people who romanticise it can just stay back 💀 like it’s suck a red flag, like if they like the relationship within it then that’s weird asf
Literally like it’s supposed be a thriller if anything like can there be a movie adaptation for something that it actually is instead of trying to add unnecessary romance
I've never read the book, but the book is why people misunderstand the concept. From a child's perspective, a loli(ta), is just a very cute little girl, they don't see the sexual side of this; why destroy what they love? Is it really worth it to spoil their hopes and dreams of being adorable? Granted, Adults should always know better than to sexualize minors.
I was groomed from age 16 until I was legal at which point she found the opportunity to trap me into a long term relationship, because I was 19 and stupid and she was 32 and narcissistic. ("Oh, you're running from domestic violence? You can stay at my place...") My heart goes out to anyone who has gone through this. I wish there were better and effective ways to call this out, but it seems nearly impossible. Whenever a young person is ahead of the curve in their maturity they may look for older friends who better understand them without having the tools to tell genuine affection, friendship, and support from exploitative, calculating predators.
@Eetaxz﹐★ Hugs and support. You deserved better. It's amazing how hard it can be to talk about and how much shame *WE* end up carrying even when we didn't know better, even as victims. I hear you.
Man I would love a Lolita adaptation by a female director and writer. Like Diablo Cody or the lady who did literally everything on the production of The Love Witch.
If they could accurately portray lolita as she is in the book by not overly sexualizing her and make it very clear she is a CHILD by keeping her obvious child-like behaviors it would definitely shift the tone to more what the book had in mind. They need to make it obvious that Humbert Humbert is a creepy narcissist and not make him overly sympathetic. I feel like a female director would know how to do that the best...
I also feel very bad for Lana that her songs aren’t just meaningless lyrics. She has add instances where she has been groomed. She even had a not ok relationship with a male boarding school teacher who introduced her to Lolita. She never said if the relationship went passed forbidden drives, etc. But I truly don’t want to know. She’s older now and I hope she’s healed from it all☹️
I read the book and I was kind of shocked, it really opened my eyes to how society really fetishises this power dynamic. The book was very clear about how disgusting the main character was. He even wrote how he SAW how uncomfortable and disgusted Doleres was by him but he didn't really care. But the way society makes it seem it was this taboo but saucy thing. Very eye-opening.
There's an unreleased Lana song called Be My Daddy (it's catchy, leave me alone) that I've had saved on an unreleased songs playlist for a few years, and the video is fanmade ofc and has a bunch of clips from various shows and movies, including the '90s Lolita movie. I went and watched it recently and the person who made the video recently posted a comment under it saying that she shouldn't have romanticized Lolita and that she had been too young to know it wasn't a romantic love story. Now that's growth and we love to see it
Thank you for mentioning how creepy Leonardo Dicaprio's behaviour is!!!!! I've never understood why people give him a pass. Being in an age gap relationship is fine when both parties are full grown adults. But having multiple relationships where your partners are never older than 23? Gross. I'm 24 now and the idea of going out with anyone in their early 20's is a no go for me. I know how impressionable and immature I was lol.
I would say 2 ppl should be allowed to have a bigger age gap but if they are older than 25,fully grown adults nothing wrong with that,but a 50 Yr old man for example,dating a 20 Yr old,yeah that's disturbing.
if I remember early tumblr correctly , the pro-ana ed community definitely played a huge role in popularizing lolita; romanticizing the very small, "svelte" body type that only a girl who's body has not matured yet can have, mixed with lana's popularity and cult following back in the day gave birth to a monster. I remember ballet and kate moss being romanticized in this way as well.
i don't think it's whole lana's fault. we live in a pedophilical (i think i spell it right 😭) society so.. she kinda contributes to it? sure, but she isn't the only one to blame
@No U She did sing about him in Cola but she said that she just wanted to sing about "the kind of man who bestows diamonds upon young starlets" and happened to chose him, doesn't mean she slept with him.
my fav book cover is the one where it’s humbert forcefully painting dolores’ toenails. it perfectly reflects humbert’s idealisation towards dolores and how he had all the control
@@dontbefatuousjeffrey2494 ecartelera.com/noticias/entrevista-andre-aciman-call-me-by-your-name-54563/ here if you use google translate and search for every mention of 12 you'll find the author talking about how he finds 12 year old girls attractive
i came across “coquette/dollette” tiktok and noticed it was similar to the lolita aesthetic but without the grooming aspects, just the girly vintage summer type of fashion. i love that style so i was relieved i could enjoy the aesthetic without the uncomfortable aspects but people are still finding ways to sneak lolita into it which yeah... not pleased with that.
same, i always liked the ~girly preppy pink lipgloss red lipstick~ aesthetic but everytime i looked into it i HAD to see something about lolita, a book which disgusted me, and it made me feel weird/wrong for liking it, so i just had to avoid it for so long thank god i found coquette
Coquette is very cute but it’s still…problematic, due to the fact edtwt _really_ loves it. Beware if you search that up on Twitter and you have history with disordered eating. 😭 it’s so uncomfortable to watch.
Adapting a book like this should honestly not be done to begin with. You’d obviously have to have a child actress pretend to get groomed on television, that cannot be ethical. Some things (especially with children included) shouldn’t be depicted on tv, even if it does sadly happen in real life
I used to like older guys until I was in an ab*sive relationship with one. These days, I will not date a man unless he is roughly my age or up to 5 years younger than me (I’m 29). Older men have only tried to control and harm me so I just don’t go with them anymore.
When I was in late middle school (I think starting at 13 or 14) and all the way through high school I was groomed and eventually assaulted by a guy that was 5 years older than me who was my friend’s brother. While I was in that situation I felt things were off sometimes, but also felt “cool” and “mature”. Looking back, I feel so gross and I wish I had realized that was going on. Now I have a super supportive and loving boyfriend who is two days older than me lol. I don’t see us breaking up in the future, but if it does I just can stand the thought of dating a guy that’s much older than me.
@Leptune Cannet anyone in a relationship no matter what age can be abusive yes. But what op is saying is that the abuse came from the fact that the man was older. The guy believed because he was older then her he was aloud to have control of her. And now op is saying their stepping away from older men to avoid that form of abuse
@Leptune Cannet Yes, but it's a lot easier to excuse some of the forms of manipulation with the smokescreen of age, especially when you're not experienced enough in dating as an adult to know better. It's a lot easier for older men to play on the lack of experience of much younger women to push them into situations that no grown woman, who knows better and would have a more even power dynamic with him, would knowingly agree to. And that's cornerstone of why these types of relationships - when you're a teenager - are kinda wrong. If you actually knew exactly what you were getting into with these older men, you wouldn't give them the time of day.
Also, cannot blame you there. Speaking from my own terrible experience, I completely understand the sentiment. I personally still find older men to be physically attractive (b/c I always have, it's an admittedly weird preference) but I am much less willing to pursue a relationship with someone significantly older than me. And it's a perfectly valid choice to stick closer to your own age. And I'm glad you're not in that situation. However you got out and whatever form it took, it's wonderful when you make your way back to freedom. :)
I wrote my dissertation on Lana’s references to literature with a heavy focus on Lolita specifically so this was so interesting for me to watch afterwards. As a long term Lana fan, I look back on my teenage years listening to her and consequentially attempting to replicate her narrative in my own life (cringe)... It’s reassuring to me that videos like this are raising awareness for young girls nowadays!
YES, this video is so good. I hate how the movie adaptations frame delores as if she has power in that "relationship". The director even said at one point "they are rivals" **digusting**. They are not, because delores is a literal child!!! I think this leads to really problematic takes about young girls having power through their sexuality or other bullshit like that to justify grooming and predatory behaviour.
Just some knowledge cuz I hear this all the time-Lana doesn’t sing Lolita anymore. She doesn’t agree with it anymore and so she just doesn’t perform it.
Yes. A lot of people think she wrote lolita to romanticise it when, unpacking the lyrics and production of it, lana was very clever in subtly showing how distasteful it was underneath the aesthetic of it.
I think it’s important to note that a lot of Dolores’s outfits are childlike in nature. The materials and patterns on her clothes are often seen on kids dresses. Ribbons especially. Just like with the doll/lolita fashion aesthetic, it basically screams “young girl”. So I find it annoying when it’s seen as inherently “romantic” or “sexual”.
Put me in a movie is meant to be interpreted similarly to the Lolita book; shocking, almost creepy, hence the overall sound of the song. For Lana del Rey, it was also a form of coping with her own experiences and trauma. The same goes for her song Lolita. It‘s nowhere near a love song which becomes pretty clear when you listen to the lyrics in the post-chorus (e.g. "No more skipping ropes, skipping heart beats with the boys downtown" etc.) Lana has never really romanticized the story of Lolita, abusive relationships, etc. She has just coped with her own experiences of these things through her art: a.k.a. her music. Ultraviolence, Lolita, Put me in a Movie and these types of songs of hers in general were never meant to be romanticized.
Yeah Put Me in a Movie is definitely not romanticizing anything, it's very somber and almost disconcerting in sound. And in Ultraviolence "he hit me and it felt like a kiss" feels more like an acknowledgement that she was being manipulated into thinking abuse was love, not that being hit was actually romantic.
Idk I get the thought process behind songs like that, but she’s also written songs putting ppl like Harvey Weinstein, who she had an affair with, on a pedestal so 😬 (Ik it’s not what this video is about but the two are connected cos Weinstein is a literal predator as well)
I LOVE this video and I just referenced it in my latest video. I learned that Lolita is inspired by the real life kidnapping of 11-year-old Sally Horner in 1948 which make the romanticisation of Lolita all the more disturbing when the same disgusting events happened to an actual child!!!
if i remember correctly, nabokov himself specifically requested not to put images of young girls on the covers of his novel. he definitely knew that some people would misinterpret lolita as some kind of "child seductress"
Yeah i was coming here to say that too! His exact quote, requesting cover art: "I want pure colours, melting clouds, accurately drawn details, a sunburst above a receding road with the light reflected in furrows and ruts, after rain. And no girls."
The copy I owned had a girls legs on the cover.
To be fair, it'd be stupid not to assume it'd happen
This makes me sad because a lot of covers do do that. Nabokov wouldn't have wanted this. Nobody should.
Fuck that's unfortunate since I have a copy of a young girl on it. Nabokov would be upset in this day and age if he knew what had been done to his literature.
Something that Hollywood needs to understand is that not every book should have a film adaptation. Unreliable narrators can be difficult to portray in a movie, since we see the world through a third-person view and not a first-person one.
I agree and one movie that actually portrays unreliable narration well is Shutter Island.
one way you can do it, is show scenes of humberts perspective and him narrating and a scene through his account of an event, then show scenes of reality and how an event really happened more through the perspective of dolores with no narration
Due to its influence and long-term interest Lolita is obviously not one of those.
idk american psycho has a notoriously unreliable narrators and that turned out great! we just need the right scriptwriter and the right director who takes it seriously, rather than half-assing it
Rip shorter
I was sexually assaulted by my step dad at 13 so to me Lolita is a horror story that hits too close to home. Some disgusting men actually believe an underage girl is ‘asking for it.’
Im so sorry, it must be really uncomfortable and angering to see people romanticising it
I hope you're doing better in life now!
horrible.🤮.stay blessed❤️
Never happened to me with older men, but I was sexually assaulted a few times by younger ages or my age. I am very sorry that happened to you though!
I was asking for it at that age. But Dolores Haze certainly wasn't.
the saddest part is that teenage Lana was having an affair with her English teacher when he first introduced her to the book Lolita. so it's very clear that she romanticized it, possibly due to his encouragement, as she was someone else's real-life "Delores". Lana was a victim of predation and grooming, and was unfortunately manipulated by the adult to think of it as a compliment.
The way a similar thing happened to me. And my english teacher talked about Lana's music a lot, mainly her first album. Yuck.
TEENAGERS ARE KIDS!!!!!!!!!
@Leptune Cannet An adult looking 16 year old is not different from an child-like 16 year old. There's also a significant change in maturity within 2 years, specifically when you're a teenager, but honestly, that's not even the issue.
I don't think 18 year olds should date anyone much older, as they're still young and can be manipulated. That becames worse when the person is their teacher, as they have an even bigger position of power than someone who is just older.
@Leptune Cannet I think anyone under 21 shouldn’t really be dating anybody that’s like 25+. There is a MASSIVE maturity difference between 16 and 18, and anyone who’s pretending there isn’t is most likely a 16 year old themselves who thinks they’re basically an adult.
In the UK at least, 16 year olds are just finishing highschool- they’re doing exams, living with parents, and most likely don’t have a job. At 18 you’ve just finished college and are either moving on to uni or full time employment- you’re probably moving out of your parent’s house, worked a part time job, and had to really know how to be independent and manage yourself and your time to get through your a levels.
Once you hit 21 you’ve been living in the adult world for a few years and you are MUCH more independent and mature. You’ll have your own source of income (whether it’s student loans or from a job) and this is VERY significant. A relationship between a 16 year old and a 30 year old has a massive maturity and power gap. The 16 year old doesn’t have their own money, they can’t drive, they can’t completely sustain themselves alone, which opens them up to a lot of exploitation and manipulation.
WHAT?? I never knew the story behind the song was *that* dark! Makes sense why it sounds so creepy
I think your point about how in the book she’s painted as a 14 year old KID and not a seductress- that it’s Humbert’s pervy perception/impression that actually sexualises her is absolutely perfect. The film should be redone as a horror/thriller 🤢
Omg a horror film would be a great idea
She’s actually 12 in the book, which is even worse
I would definitely want to see it directed by a woman, I think the perspective would be so different
So right! Or like from the perspective of an abuse survivor, like uh... Nabokov himself was. The amount of people who don't understand Lolita is baffling to me.
A horror or thriller movie of lolita would be honestly controversial, only a brave director will do it
It bears repeating: _her name isn't Lolita, it's Dolores Haze_ . This is super important, because it tells us that Humbert Humbert doesn't see her as an actual person. She's a concept or an item to him.
Another important detail, from the novel, is Dolores becomes so desperate for it to stop she talks her friends into 'seducing' HH (this is unsuccessful and iirc he forces her to move again after this. Something he does every time it's close to being found out he's abusing his _stepdaughter_)
"delores is a spanish name, and shes explicitly described as tanned with brown hair" (...) "one of her nicknames was lola, and "lolita" roughly means little lola in Spanish. adding ita or ito is affectionate or making something smaller than the original word. which makes the lolita nickname creepier in my opinion." Just a quote from a comment i found interesting!
@@KoraWade Yeah. It's calling a random hispanic girl Senorita. It sounds like he's trying to make her this exotic pet that he got from a foereign land.
@@KoraWade she's not describe as tan, he sees her as "pure" and "angelic" bc of her pale skin 🤔
i never knew she was named dolores lolol. i can confirm, the common nickname for dolores is Lola. adding -ita to names is a very common and normal way of creating the diminutive form of that noun. the direct translation would be "little lola".
adding the diminutive -ita/o to people's names is considered a term of endearment, typically by family, and most commonly towards young kids.
so, her mom (for example) calling her lolita would be completely normal and expected. on the other hand, i think in this book it is used to further infantilize her, or portray a twisted sense of affection
edit: lolita IS her name tho. unless she specifically says she doesnt enjoy nicknames. the same way a "matt" would be able to say thats their name, even if their full legal name is matthew lol. its not weird for the diminutive form of ur name to be considered your name
@@emma-rdgs in the scene where he licks her eyeball, he describes the "blonde down of her brown limbs" at the beach he describes her "long, brown legs" he calls her his "brown flower" later when threatening her of what will happen if she tells. He does mention pale skin, but only of a sex worker earlier in the book. He mentions a girl with ivory pale legs, but this is a girl around lolitas age, not lolita herself. He constantly mentions that Lolita gets tanner in the sun, and makes frequent mention of her arms and legs being dark. I don't know where you found him mentioning her being pure and pale, but I can find dozens of examples of him calling her brown.
This and also the romanticisation of literal murderers because they’re conventionally attractive :(
The Ted bundy craze was so confusing to me
they’re ugly. i think it’s mainly their sadistic nature that attracts those people
Bro the Ted Bundy stuff was so goddamn weird, what in the world 🤡
bruh the way people are attracted to Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer etc, disgusts me. Someone in my grade really asked me if I have favorite serial killer not the fictional ones. I-
Like Richard Ramirez...
That guy went on a murder-rape spree, got arrested and on his trial there were literally fan girls surrounding the court building. And one of his fans made her way to the jury. The fan girls also petitioned for his re-trial when he got convicted. All cause he was visually cute. Bruh.
i remember reading once that when nabokov taught at cornell university, a few of his female students showed up to his home dressed at Dolores on Halloween. he described the situation as terrifying
Oh god, poor guy
He said the he was glad that people had started romanticizing it while he was still alive so that he could let everyone know that he had absolutely nothing to do with it
im sorry for laughing hshshsh i'd be terrified too if i was him
this is doubly horrifying if you know he was a victim of CSA. poor guy.
I feel so bad for laughing 😭 That must've been horrifying for him though. Poor guy
The fact that in the book Humbert literally says that nymphets are girls just older than 10 but never over 13-14 because they lost their “magic” after becoming more mature girls simply talks by itself and if no grown director could catch that it’s disgusting
Oh God...🤢
Tell this to Kubrick for making the awful movie adaptation 😭
What do you mean by 'if no grown director could catch that'?
@@Lin_EileenWasn’t Lolita supposed to be a book from the monsters perspective? From what I gather it’s anti-pedophile but just was to show how they see girls, and maybe written at a time when a lot of people didn’t understand how pesophiles thought.
Pure fantasy projected on mere children. 😐
I think Pretty Little Liars also contributed to this with the character Alison reading Loltita and being presented as mysterious, older than her age kind of girl that others would strive to be like.
Yeah, and Aria and the what's-his-face teacher guy? Uh...
And then they got married at the end and the show started selling 'Aria & Fitz' merch. Absolutely disgusting
missstorrm yes i am rewatching the show at the moment & it’s hard not to throw up every time they show up on screen
YES YES NO ONE EVER BRINGS THIS UP like aria and Ezra and Alison reading Lolita
Yoooo wtf I didn’t even think about all of this 😭😭
What makes me mad is that when girls are groomed by older men and the situation comes out, the girl is seen as the problem. I know someone who married a high school teacher/coach in high school. He was married before and left his wife for her. He ended up getting fired and this 16 year old girl was not allowed to be left alone with any male staff member at the school and she was basically made to feel like the perpetrator. She was 16 and he was a grown as man with a mortgage and a family! It’s so gross.
That's because sexism towards girls is so ingrained in our society and it pisses me off.
It look more like a way to protect her from any possible grooming again rather than seeing her as the problem unless the school specifically states she is the issue in this situation but I think it was used to protect her from any more possible grooming by men since it happened once and she is very vulnerable to it happening again since she pursued a relationship with an older guy she's not the issue but she is very young so she will make bad decisions that can impact her life by getting involved in more potential grooming situations.
"grooming" is not a thing other than a self-defense mechanism made up by older females once their very limited shelf life has expired to try to retain the idea that they have value and can command. you have no value as a human being.
@@FirstnameLastnames thats exactly why they didnt let any male staff be alone with her! some people just love to play the victim card😂
@@4th_Disciplewhat do you mean by "some people just love to play the victim card?"
I actually think a good way to adapt Lolita would be to never actually have her onscreen. Glimpses of body parts, but never showing her, just imagery, like her clothing, her things, stuff that would show the audience how much of a child she is. You'd just hear her with a voice actress that just needs to sound young. It would also play well into Humbert's narcissism and make it harder for him to get a sort of an antihero aura about him.
And it’d show how he objectifies her
Honestly that’s a fantastic idea. Please become a director/ editor
omg *mind blowing* that's the most perfect idea for an adaptation I ever heard
And by doing this the story could have a more horror aspect which it needs coz it’s not a happy love story and it’s a horror story almost and I think a film with a Dolores who only speaks and is never shown would add that
That's also a really interesting way to portray the unreliable narration
actually tumblr isn't dead! it's now home to absolute chaos.
Yeah we’re still here, I was actually ten during the soft grunge phase lmao
no fr bc why does everyone say it's dead when it is, infact, very much alive 😭
@@sixteeeeeen idk 😭😭😭
Tumblr ain't gonna die until they turn off the servers lmao
i still use tumblr and it's active as hell lol
I’ve been angry about how the adaptations completely miss the point of the original story for years now. It’s made so incredibly clear in the book that Dolores is a child. She is not a seductress. Humbert Humbert is a monster, lying to himself about Dolores’ nature in order to excuse himself from the immense damage he is doing. It’s a damn good book. It does the exact opposite of romanticising or excusing abuse.
I cannot say the same for the adaptations, and that pisses me off. It misses the entire point of the story.
RIGHT
literally. It's so important to know that humbert humbert is not a reliable narrator
Humbert Humbert isn’t even lying to himself. He knows what he is. He makes excuses for himself and continues to things worse. He only cares about how the reader, the audience, his jury thinks of him. How he appears. He’s a narcissist.
@@alexisrobinson9180 THIS ONE
Absof*ckinglutely. The entire book is him attempting to bullshit his way out of suffering consequences for something that he knew was wrong at the time , but every time he admits that, he starts showing his ass when his narcissism shows up and demands that he attempt to defend himself by making shit up. It's no accident that Dolores' POV is left out of the book.
I read somewhere that Nabokov specifically demanded that there were no images of young girls printed on the cover of Lolita! It's very telling that publishers are not honouring his wish 🙄
Well...regardless of what was on the cover, the book is ABOUT a minor in a sexual relationship with an Adult. Imagery isn't the only sin. Written words are as powerful as the image they carry. I never read the book but I know it's not a book I'd want to read. I do know it has very little to do with the modern concept of "Lolita".
@@myst.leissa it's fine if you don't want to read it but it doesn't actually romanticize the abuse, idk if that what you mean just wanted to point that out
Honestly I love how Nabokov handled his book like that. We love him, rest in piece.
@@myst.leissa i mean like the whole point of the book was to be an insight onto a sick sick man who was abusing this poor girl, its a character study on H.H., not just writing a child with an adult as you would another generic romance/erotica. thats partly why Nabokov wanted there to NOT be any girls/sexy imagery on the cover, and why in one of his statements about the novel he wanted there to be a nature scene. the whole purpose of putting a sexy image or girl on the front is to grab people in because "sex sells" and its essentially carrying on humberts view of lolita as an object. thats why a lot of other covers instead depict symbolic images of childhood being shattered or even representatives of humber himself, because it is not lolita's story in the slightest, its about humbert and his gross view of her and the world.
its fine to say "yeah this book isnt for me" but to misinterpret the book as a romance/glorifying it in any way when it basically screams at you THIS IS BAD AND ABUSIVE is really misinformed
@@myst.leissa You're dismissing the book without having read a word of it so you don't get to shit on it. Yes, written words are powerful. The book makes you realise what a masterful job it's possible to do at crafting an unreliable narrator. It's not a 'sin' to write something. It's a HORRIBLE subject, but so is murder - and suggesting American Psycho or Crime and Punishment are bad for being written from a murderer's perspective is pretty dumb too.
I think one of main problem is whole:"Girls grow up quicker then boys" teaching needs to be rooted out. And also I can't even imagine how Nabukov would feel with how his book is perceived today. Also we need to stop romanticizing dating man who could be our father or even worse grandfather age.
Ikr. The only way that line of thinking is true is that normally girls hit puberty first. But that like only within like 2 to 3 years. Its not like when girls hit 12, then suddenly their ready for marriage.
The phrase “ girls grow up quicker then boys “ didn’t just come out of the blue. It was someone’s observation at a society.
@@hiddenusername7249 and also science to an extent because they do grow up in certain aspects faster
@@hiddenusername7249 they ''grow up'' faster cause of creepy men like humper (or whatever his name is)
The phrase "girls mature faster than boys," means a girl is ready to have children, faster than a boy is ready to support a family
Its phrase that defined women as breeders, and is ironically very used by feminists as empowerment
Never feel bad about taking a mental health break. Do what u gotta do!
@luna well, i honestly don't know but it whould be better if u read it at like 15 or 16yo so u can handle it.
@@sillycatsayshi I agree, I stole it from my mother’s bookshelf when I was twelve or thirteen, and it traumatised me
Lolita never consented to anything. It’s portrayed as “love” because it’s seen from Humbert’s pov and he was a disgusting man who was in love with a literal child. This is not a love story but his pov makes it look like it because he believed that’s what he believed it was.
not to mention that its stated outright in the books that she cried during sex multiple times and he ignored her
I mean, the character made it pretty clear that he did not care a single whit about the kid's well being. It didn't even look like a love story, there was no love involved there whatsoever.
@@sofialara297 not sex, rape.
@@Jaesdaes my bad
She cries most nights and Humbert cannot understand why- says it all!
For anyone interested in this topic you should read the memoir Being Lolita by Alisson Wood!it’s a memoir that talks about her own personal experience of basically being coerced into playing the role of “Lolita” by her high school english teacher. It’s a heavy read but I really recommend since it gives a lot of insight of how the narrative of H.H. in Lolita so often gets misconstrued by the reader and how dangerous that can be.. especially for young girls who see Lolita as an icon
Read this recently ! Was a fantastic read, but god yeah, heavy fuckn content.
I just finished reading it literally yesterday. I highly recommend the book, the chapters aren’t long and it doesn’t shy away on explaining the experience and impact of trying to play the role of Lolita.
Preferred it over my dark Vanessa
@@strawberrydoll7042 My dark Vanessa..Vanessa is a pain in the ass.
GOD I read Lolita in high school and really enjoyed it but adapting it into a movie is a huge mistake. The bulk of the appeal of that book is the prose, both how Humbert unreliably narrates the story which makes you think twice about everything you're reading and how he's constantly putting in these bilungual puns and literary flourishes and other things that make it so you can keep reading the book over and over and get something new out of it every time. The issue is that you can't really convey any of that in film and without that it's just... a story about a pedophile.
I agree that the absolute genius of Nabokov, how he could build sentences and story lines is a massive impact when you read the book. And thi si all lost in the movie.
Hey. What happened to the hivliving episode of When Posting Goes Wrong? Did yo delete it?
Exactly lmao like without Humbert's narration the effect is missing
@Queen queen It's not though, that's the whole point of the book. Humbert Humbert is an unreliable narrator because of how he beautifies the dsigusting nature of the acts.You aren't supposed to sympathise with him and the author doesnt expect you to.
I’d kinda love to see an adaptation of the book with like… an unattractive creepy guy as Humbert. Basically making it a horror movie
That interview with Adrian Lyne is absolutely disgusting. “Does she know what she’s doing?” She is not doing ANYTHING. She is a CHILD.
As if young teeneage girls can't do anything. They are completely innocent until the turn 18, right?
That doesn't mean Humbert is any less guilty though.
@@peterwallis4288 a 14 year old girl brushing past a grown man as she walks through the garden is not trying to seduce him. To indicate that she might be is extremely worrisome.
@@gemmaryan5095 I don't see how. Neither the director, nor I, are saying that Humbert is not completely guilty.
But be real, girls that age obviously can very flirty, including with older men.
It's clearly the responsibility of the man to politely reject any advances.
@@gemmaryan5095 I understand Humbert is an unreliable narrator, but it's completely plausible she did have a crush on him. In which case, it's completely plausible she would try to flirt with him. I've seen that type of thing in class, with a young male teacher. As I said, it would not make Humbert any less guilty, or any less of a monster, for taking advantage of a young girls crush.
It's a completely valid theory that Delores may not have been flirting with him in the beginning. I mean, it is all written from Humbert's perspective.
I have always thought that she had a crush on him, and was flirting with him, in the beginning. Then he took advantage of that, and she wanted to get out of the situation but couldn't. Because at that age, you are naive and you don't think things though very well. I still think that's quite likely. As I say, I have seen girls of that age being really flirty with a younger male teacher. If thats were the case, that would not make him any less bad.
a lot of the girls who obsess over lolita are at that age where it’s common to start feeling some attraction to older men. the problem is the community encourages diving deeper into those feelings. they’re opening themselves up to abuse and i pray that they get out of it before that can happen.
thankyou for commenting this. when i was 8 i started being introduced to.. pedos and bdsm. i was traumatized and for a long time i was in love with the idea of being abused. im 13 now trying to get better, but it hurts when people blame me when i didnt know better. i was just taught to be quiet and like it
@@littleone2136 don’t let anyone blame you for the harm done to you in the past. i’m giving you my best wishes to grow and flourish as you work to heal your trauma, you have great things ahead of you. i know it!!
@@littleone2136 for what it’s worth I hope you have a great rest of your life.
who tf is attracted to old men
@@misstigerbubbles lots of people because sometimes there attractive
I love how you don't blame everything on teenage girls like a lot of people like to do while criticising stuff like this. People will take any chance to hate on women ugh
...did you watch the whole video? She clearly said she doesn't blame these young girls for making this mistake
@@Faolair op literally said they love that she doesn't blame anyone bruh
@@addisonb.1356 oooooh, I thought it was sarcasm, my bad ^^'
@@Faolair no probs it's okay!
@@Faolair oh no I wasnt being sarcastic, I recently watched a video similar to this and the creator was just shitting on teenage girls the whole time and it really upset me. I'm genuinely glad Jordan understands the bigger picture and doesn't blame them
I read Lolita in 8th grade (14 yo) for a book report and remember getting very mixed and worried reactions from the adults around me. I went into the book knowing that it was a heavy subject. I had celebrity crushes on older actors, but I found huge age gap relationships with young women disturbing in real life. However, many girls in my class would brag about "talking to men as old as 24". They would do this in secret because they knew I would try to talk them out of it. When it came time to talk about the book to the class, I made sure to say that although the story is interesting, ultimately, it's a story about a creepy old man preying on a young girl roughly our age. I wish I could say that the girls in class actually listened to what I said, but the only ones creeped out were the boys.
LMFAO???? HOW DID YOUR TEACHER APPROVE YOU CHOOSING THAT BOOK???
I just finished Lolita and it took all of freshman year. I didn't really get any concerned reactions from any of my teachers but some kids did call me a pedo for reading it. Still, it's not a bad book like so many people paint it out to be, and that's the main reason I picked it up and decided to read it.
@@snekgewehr I have no idea. I would question her now about it though.
Well, at least SOMEONE in your class got the message.
Another problem that I find out is the normalization of the “sugar baby” especially on Tik Tok, I see so many girls under the age saying stuff like “oh my dream job, my future job, I’m not gonna study because I’m gonna be a sugar baby”... It’s terrifying to me that little girls are romanticizing their future life with jobs that only older people should be considered on that freaking app.
You say the word terrific, do you actually mean terrifying? I’m confused.
ye thats a huge problem when i was like fifteen i made the mistake of being a sugar baby because tiktok made it look cool and ended up in a relationship with a forty year old
That’s so true, i really don’t like how it became so much normalized being a sugar baby... like you literally have grown people on tiktok talking about how it’s so easy to make money but they never talk about about the dark side of it and how it affects you mentally. And no older man will just send you money just for talking, all men in those sites want something sexual in return. Like you really have teen girls and boys thinking they can play men much older than then and with much experience. Same thing with Of
terrific???
@@angelicinternetuser Yes! Guys I’m so sorry! My first language is not English, so it was a mistake. So sorry if you understood something wrong, it wasn’t my intention at all!
I have a friend who's 20 and dating a 32 year old. She can do whatever she wants, but what gets me is that she says "I like mature men," and I just think, hon if a man is going after a girl that much younger than him, is he really a mature man?
Yupppppp this right here.
if he's so "mature", why can't he get a woman his own age?????
I was just like your friend when I was 20 and now at 25 I feel so sad for the mindset I had then.
Exactly! I have some friends who are the same and even though 20 year olds are adults I believe they are still quite immature since a lot of maturing takes place throughout your twenties. Any man over 30 who is into 18-21 year old girls really disturbs me.
That’s the thing. They aren’t.
I date a 33 year old and I’m 22.
I can tell that my bf is NOT A MATURE 33 y/o.
HOWEVER, he is more mature than a regular 20 year old in terms of goals and what he wants of life.
This is not common in 20y/os, BUT I do believe that there is more context than that, as maturity is not a matter of age and being in an age gap relationship is not a synonym of grooming or immaturity.
I was in an abusive relationship with an older man, who “kidnapped me” in a way. When I read Lolita and saw the movie, I felt connected to her. Both of us young trapped in a relationship with an older man. At 18 I tattooed Lolita on my hand, but now I’m 21 and no longer relate to her or want to be reminded of this time in my life so I’m getting it lasered off.
Good for you
You were strong enough to get out and survive. You should be proud of that. (Definitely not saying you shouldn’t laser it off - I would do that too!)
Proud of you. 💕💕
I’m glad you don’t relate to that terrible situation anymore. So proud of you!
Thanks guys :) it’s been two years and now the tattoo is gone! Haha
this was a great way to explain it. may i suggest that u talk about the romantiziation of serial killers? because thats been a huge thing on tiktok too. they have literal fan accounts dedicated to ted bundy... and most of the fan accounts are run by young girls. it's disturbing.
exactly this. and the people saying every boy with curly hair (and also latinos with curly hair) look like richard ramirez as if it's a compliment are extremely weird.
YESSS!!
@@db3015 ur so right, it’s literally so weird to say that as if it was compliment and as if richard ramirez was “cute” he was a monster, it’s so messed up :,)
yanno ed's are romanticized there too? espescially ana. i hate that app so much it can be so draining sometimes. and tiktok is terrible about deleting these types of people uness attention is brought to them. just freaking gross.
@@blissin444 exactly! tiktoks HR needs some help fr, they are not on top of things even if it gets reported multiple times and then they remove children’s innocent tiktoks for “adult nudity” simply disappointing
One of my friends boyfriend literally said that it's downhill for women after 30 and that men get better with age.. It's so disgusting how comfortable some people are with being sexist. Btw, my friend turned 27 a couple of days ago so what is he going to do when she's 30? It makes me so sick.
@No U yes, I've been wrapping my head around how to bring it up. Unfortunately she always apologizes for his behavior. He once called me a bitch when he was drunk and she made excuses for him. Ugh.
Ironically it's usually the opposite because women keep up with their looks out of obligation usually.
It's sad that she isn't married yet, he is just using her for sex, if he was serious about her he would have put a ring on her finger a long time ago. It may be too late for her to find another man but it's not hopeless for her to live a better life away from him.
Yeah there is a whole Redpill/The Manosphere community of men that says the same thing... That women "hit the wall" as soon as they become thirty and that men remain attractive for much longer... It's so weird
@@randompanda2391 ikr? It's not like most older men are bald and have bigger bellies. I mean, if you're attractive and you take care if yourself you're probably gonna be attractive later in life. But most of these dudes were never even good looking in the first place. So turning 30,40,50 is not gonna magically make them handsome lmao.
I got called a lolita from the age of 12-16 all the time by adults. I never knew what that ment and now i am highly disturbed and i feel disgusting
Same, my male hairdresser called me that recently when he cut my hair to a bob.
R.I.P ☠️
I'm proud of the fact that I was one when I was a teenager
@@xxmidnightprincessxx ew
@@xxmidnightprincessxxconsider therapy
that's so gross. i really hope you're far away from those creeps now
relieved to hear you distinguish "lolita" the Japanese fashion/subculture from "lolita" the soft grunge romanticization of aesthetics from the Nabokov adaptations. it's weird how the same name is used for two completely different lifestyle/fashion subcultures enjoyed by young women on the internet. great video! i love your nuance, respect, and professionalism. and it's no problem taking a mental health break, take as much time as you need. :)
Yes
Lolita fashion is cute
It drives me INSANE when people connect the two 😩
the people who invented the fashion came up with the name so now we are all stuck with it lololol
I feel like I hear a lot of fans of Lolita fashion also find this frustrating. They should try to get together and change the name. Otherwise I fear they are doomed to have to explain it to skeptical people forever. It just seems impossible to hope that the word Lolita will ever NOT be associated with ped0ph1lia
when i was 14 i met a 27 year old man. when i reached the age of concent, 15, we stared dating, it lasted 3 years. even though he was good to me, and cared for me, i still have trauma responses when i think about it too much. the age difference -in it self- messes you up. thank you for addressing this topic
are you okay? That is so insane to me
@@formlessdivinity yes, thank you. I'm doing alright
That’s crazy that the age of consent where you are is 15 what the heck!! I hope you are doing better!
Sweden?
@@ollieno971 yes, i wish the age of concent was older, at least when it comes to seeing ppl over 18. I know I wouldn't do it if I wasn't the age of concent.
Thank you ♡
As a person who got groomed at a young age, it isn’t fun. It literally made me want to end it all more than i did before. It’s not this pretty, secret relationship. It’s the constant fear that you’re going to get caught and blamed by those you love, it’s literally relying on the person to “save” you from the dark shitty place you’re in but they only make it much worse. I also don’t blame anyone who did this, because we all make mistakes, but grooming isn’t such a thing to romanticise
This was very well-worded, you depict the psychological process and mental space so well.
I hope you are doing well and looking after yourself!
@@shania9528 I am, don’t worry! I’ve been getting counselling for it, and currently my mental health is the best it’s been this year!
I was as well and this is so spot on. I am so glad to be away from such a monster...
@@sallygirl2066 yes. That’s great!
@Josef Mengele I am alright, how are you?
Nabokov actually wrote a 400-page script for the Kubric adaptation, but got told it was too long and not appropriate for cinema, so they ended up shortening and changing a lot. Nabokov was not happy with the end result, and I can imagine he would be even more upset with the 1997 adaptation...
Of course they did because they wanted to start pushing that creepy agenda.
How long are scripts usually?
not surprised, hollywood is filled with pedos
Damn. I’d love to see that script :/
I think when most girls say this we're thinking about the aesthetic of an older man like rugged, handsome, rich, wanting to spoil you and give you lots of attention. And not the actual saggy skinned, manipulative, pathetic guys that they are.
Thatd be great if it wasnt because they actually go and date the manipulative older creeps because theyre too young to know better
Girls want to find a "McSteamy" but they don't understand that power imbalance would be abusive by nature
@No U yes of course. I should have written it better. What I meant was girls might not be having the whole picture in they're head when it comes to these types of relationship. Now look at some of those soft grunge daddy issues posts, certain Lana videos(I'm not dissing Lana here btw) they're very stylized and polished. Things like that can lead to romanticization of these toxic age gap relationships. Looks of course don't matter when someone's talking advantage of another person.
Absolutely. I had a casual relationship with a 34 year old man when I was about 21 years old, the whole attraction and sexual tension we had to each other was based on the age gap.. It was definitely a dd/lg bdsm relationship, I liked his rough hands, he'd also been in a band when he was a bit younger, he was essentially a grown up punker with dad energy (and I had been through a lot of trauma and missing a father figure in my life).
Now being 27 and seeing he's a 40 year old man and noticing how much he has aged in those couple years I don't think I could do it anymore, I also feel too mature and confident to be as submissive to someone as I was back then.
In those years and now I never wanted to actually date him because I could see the red flags from miles away, literally all his girlfriends are the same age as me too.
He clearly has a lolita complex thing going, he's not into 'young looking women' necessarily but he definitely thrives off of being some sort of mentor/father figure to a younger woman.
You are so right
As someone who dated a 36-year-old man when I was a 19-year-old "woman", I completely agree with your points about manipulation and power imbalance. 30-year-old women just aren't as "fun" because we typically prioritize our well-being over someone else's entertainment by that point.
I mean, I dated a 31 year old when I was 17 (I'm 18 now) and it wasn't pedophilic/predatory in any way. In fact, nothing very "$exual" ever happened and nothing ever happened w/o my consent. Although he did seem like a high schooler himself, I already look much younger than I actually am (13/14 at best) and when he first met my friends, they thought he was 17. I could def feel the age gap with his friends tho but all in all, it wasn't bad for me. I have nothing but good things to say about that guy, unfortunately long distance relationships aren't my thing so I broke up when I left for univ but yeah, he's a great man. I get where you're coming from though and I hope you heal, sending you love!
@@nini-qc1qd this isn’t okay :( i’m sorry that you thought that it is. a 31 year old has no business being with a 17 year old at his big age. i’m sorry:(
@@jenjenxox224 thank you for your concern! Like I said, nothing very 4exual ever happened and he didn't even know how old I was at first. All of his girlfriend before me and after me have been older/around his age. I do understand your concern but my relationship wasn't abusive, I know this isn't the case with most people so I see your point:)
I have a friend who’s in a similar situation and I don’t know how to help her because she doesn’t see anything wrong with it
@nini a 30 year old “dating” a 17 year old is inherently pedophilic. Full Stop. If you had a 17 year old child you wouldnt want them in romantic contact with a 30 year old in any capacity sexual or not.
the analysis. the hair. the audio quality. you came back with a BANG ✨
moo🐄 wheres cow
Hi Tara. Say Hi to the cow 🐮❤️
thank you my love !!
WHEN ARE YOU GUYS COLLABORATING?????
legends supporting legends
I always find the romanticising of toxic relationships very strange and the way the media feeds into it even more strange. I suppose it does aid the patriarchal domination of women, which is probably why it remains.
Yeah, when my teacher h*rrased me I felt like it was my fault and not the other way around. Like it was the fault of how I look, how I dress etc. But also makes you feel glad (or something) because you get better grades. It is this power disbalance that's just terrible.
It's not strange really... The answer is Occam's razor here... Simply that, as It's for media content, toxic and volatile relationships contain far more drama and excitement... much bigger emotions and actions that translates into a more interesting media. safe and healthy/normal relationships just don't appeal as much and it's easy to see why. The issue is when people try to immitate media into real life and model relationship on something that is meant to be a depiction of an extreme for a good story.
.... Or maybe people crave excitement and a good story and drama in their lives which is why sometimes people don't always pick healthy and safe options. We are human after all.
@@domtekos7761 errr that’s not quite the same as literal pedo and ephebophilia though. Normal people are not interested in those things, and you can have drama without them
@@EC-yw5hg I never said my reply was only about those type of relationship. I was replying to a comment about toxic relationships generally.
the sexualization of girls with daddy issues and trauma surrounding men definitely contributes to why these young girls want to be a lolita replica. men will literally fantasize ab young women (specially teenagers) who have problems with their fathers. it’s actually so sickening because most of those men are looking for these women bc they’re usually easier/more prone to being manipulated.
You do realize ab doesn't mean about right? it means Adult Baby, which is an adult who dresses and acts like a infant.
So real “dark red”
Its so normalized even now like wtv that somg was that sweater weather or whatever made. Even if it was made about a guy with daddy issues bonding wit a girl wit daddy issues the execution was TERRIBLE😭 ppl thought it was an older guy that was attracted to a girl with daddy issues. Especially the line “And if you were my little girl id run away and hide with you” its so nasty i hate them for this😭
@@rhea4559 its obviously not a joke, they just misunderstood and left a comment
I’m so glad you mentioned how significantly older men dating barely legal girls is still creepy, people always say well “age is just a number” and that they are consenting adults...but like why are older men going for such young girls?? I feel like they are attracted to teenage girls and date the closest ones that are morally and legally acceptable
if theyre above 22 or something then its fine. If its situations like a 22 yo girl dating a 50 year old man, he's probably a sugar daddy, thats its own thing entirely.
@@mateenahmad9960 Its still disturbing. To think that he was like 28 when she was an infant.
Just because it’s creepy or weird does not mean it’s not reality, men are genetically wired to go for the youngest girl they can for reproductive purposes, and young girls are wired to be with older men for resources which help survival, just the way it is and anyone else saying otherwise are copeing, when I was 14 I knew 4 13 yo girls dating guys in their 30s. It’s a disturbing reality. Humans are monsters
"legality doesn't always correlate with morality..." - Jordan Theresa
Aaron taylor johnsons wife is turning in her sleep
@Una bolsa de pepsi y una lata de lays what does that mean
@Una bolsa de pepsi y una lata de lays i think that in some countries there isn’t even an age of consent, and you just need to be married. i think that’s very dangerous. nigeria’s age of consent is about 11 i think, correct me if i’m wrong it may be older.
why it's immoral?
lolita is my favorite book and the point is not that humbert is able to trick the reader into sympathizing with a pedophile through fancy prose, the whole point is that he isn’t. he’s delusional and unable to look at himself for what he is - the fancy prose is apart of it. he fully admits to taking advantage of dolores in this book, acknowledges that dolores herself is more often than not disgusted by him (she even calls him a rapist at one point), and describes another man (quilty) who behaves exactly as he does as vile and disgusting - he is holding a mirror straight to his face yet refusing to look at it. he genuinely does not see things the way they happened - so while it’s eloquently written because that’s the way he sees it, it’s still a disgusting confession. as much as he tried to conceal his own vulgarity he only revealed it. his actions never match his words, it’s my favorite part of the book and the cognitive dissonance is completely lost in film. i think kubrick did his best with the quilty/humbert double theme and giving quilty a larger role, but he horrifically misrepresented dolores. the book can not be adequately translated well to film without caution, especially when the message of the book is easily and often overlooked.
It’s interesting because I watched the original film after having read the book and I think certain scenes still kept the characterization of him as completely delusional and creepy. They’re definitely spaced out for the shock value but when you don’t romanticize the relationship it hammers that point home
@@shanelbryant5638 Yeah Stanley Kubrick’s adaptation is way better because the actress is never exploited, and there is no sexuality, just the implication. The 90s version disturbed me, and it is meant to be a disturbing story, but I don’t think they should have added sexually explicit scenes.
I agree. I think Kubrick did the best film can be expected to do. What Dolores looks like is irrelevant. But what she looks like in Humbert's false narrative is very relevant, to the director who can't rely upon the audience's imagination.. The key is to not let Humbert's narrative distract you from the reality. Nabokov can, and must do that, in order to avoid it becoming no more than beautifully written CP. I think the marketing of the film plays on the false narrative, it's a horror, with the world's leading comedy actor. I feel it needs to be remembered that Quilty's character , in the film, is also part of Humbert's false narrative, and as such we see Humbert try to paint Quilty as the real monster, when he accuses Humbert. Quilty's open flaunting of his abuse is despicable, Humbert is a poor victim of the nymphets that monsters like Quilty groom into existence.
Sellers' comedic portrayal ridicules Humbert's entire narrative, in case it was required.
I remember when I read Lolita in my Lolita phase when I was 15, one of the reviews on the back of the book said it was “the most convincing love story ever written” and that really biased my reading of it even more :| and the cover art was very suggestive of like sexualized or romanticized Lolita child-like stuff
I just got my copy to look at the reviews and on my edition it is described as a ‘comedy’ 🤢 and also has the words ‘poor doomed humbert’ on it.... not poor Delores?? Actually vile
omg nabokov is rolling in his grave
I don't understand why the mainstream perception of the book is that of a love story. I mean Theresa just explained how the movies play into it, but I seriously cannot imagine what's in the minds of these reviewers and publishers who play up the point of view of the creep in the story.
@@dorotheasav8575 Nabokov chose to publish his story in playboy first, he knew what he was doing.. It's sick really.
@@dianana7371 honey what. where did u hear that?? it's so wrong, it was only published on playboy after he was long dead... he's not a 'sick' man, he literally first published the book w/ the most plain cover n didn't allow any imagery in its book covers that showed the image of a young girl, being very strict abt what ppl could write on back covers n such.
he makes it extremely clear in the book that hh is an unreliably narrator, so therefore, we should take everything written by hh w/ a grain of salt. dolores herself is written, as, u know, a child, w/ absolutely no glamourization. she's a bit of a brat, she's gross, she acts like how a 12 yr old should. nabokov handled the heavy topics extremely well.. the movies r another story.
Heard this in a podcast, "If a guy says 'you're mature for your age,' RUN 🏃♀️. Don't engage." This is in a context of a mid twenties guy pursuing an 18 year old. Most because they throw that out as a compliment to susceptible young women.
I even had a guy ask me out on e because he thought he was getting himself a young woman. I was 28 and he thought that I was 22; turns out, this guy was 36. I blocked him after that conversation.
There wouldn’t even be anything wrong with that. 22 year olds are t kids.
something i always think is, that if you're in a romantic relationship with someone or heading towards a romantic relationship, there should be no reason to say, "you're mature for your age". If your boyfriend or girlfriend is saying that to you, they're either viewing you as a child/kid or manipulating you. it's weird af. skedaddle away from that situation as quick as possible.
I think it's too late to comment here, but it actually makes sense.
I met an older man, when I was 15 years old, between the two of us there is a difference of 23 years, he told me this exact phrase, as time passed he moved on to intimate matters.
And today I don't know what this relationship actually is, because there were moments of conversations, but sometimes he made sexual jokes. I ended up having intimate moments with him and I feel very guilty.
Any movie, that portrayed Lolita as something aesthetically pleasing absolutely failed at the very basis of the movie. You are not portraying something nice, you are portraying a disgusting, depressing, disturbing situation, don’t make it nice, make it awful. All these movies had a chance to open viewers eyes regarding grooming and pedophilia, yet they romanticized it
its kubricks fault! the man is an abuser. i used to enjoy his films but ever since i learned about how he treated shelly duvall on the set of the shining i kinda stopped liking him
They clearly had an agenda, you can’t make such movies unless you are sick
Your experience as a 16 year old reminded me of one of my boyfriends. I was 19 when we first started dating. He was 30. I felt the exact same way you did when you left the party. I thought I was so cool for sleeping with/dating an older man, who was very smart, worldly, and foreign. It took me a while to admit it, but I liked the idea of us more than the actual relationship. We were definitely not equals. I was still depending on my mom’s allowance whereas he was years out of college. That isn’t okay. Young women should focus on themselves and grow up before pursuing older men. And older men need to back the fuck off from teenagers.
holy fuck, u perfectly worded what I had been thinking but couldn’t put into words. “i liked the idea of us more than the actual relationship”. thank you
@@ivy-io6wz young women should do whatever the fuck they want and so old men as long as theyre not doing anything wrong. just leave ppl alone
@@aurevoirchu6313 lmao but these older men are already doing something wrong if they can't get a woman their age and feel justified to be with someone who gives them an unhealthy power dynamic, what are you in about dude?
once the goverment get serious about banning "barely legal" porn and jailing men who do pedophilic stuff and whenn MEN hold men accountable thats when things will get better for woman
@@amysocool7 preach🙌🏼🙌🏼
It’s so gross how the director in the interview was acting like Delores having bare feet made her a seductress 🤢 it disgusts me how much of the blame is put onto victims- always the classic of “she was asking for it” and blaming the clothes women wear. Repulsive.
This. A child cannot ever consent, and it never matters what a woman is wearing.
My groomer blamed me for seducing him because i showed him my doll that had no clothes on, i was 6 by the way.
@@ruslana5350 I’m sorry that’s horrible. They’ll always blame the victims.
The director clearly had issues, pedophile to be more precise
"legality does not always corelate with morality" this! thanks you for saying this because ive been trying to explain this to people who dont see an issue with age gap relationships the second the youngest turns 16. just because its barely legal, doesnt mean its right. if its in the grey area then its probably not a good idea.
Exactly
You have people who openly fantasize about dating a barley legal person and see nothing wrong with it 🤢
The one scene in the 97 film where they’re in some hotel and basically we see them have intercourse on a chair… the way it was filmed really made me feel awkward and uncomfortable. And watching the interview with the director really showed how much even he was romanticizing the relationship. It was gross tbh
It's disgusting bc he purposely fuels sexual tension between the two characters. One which is a CHILD. And in the interview the director makes himself look like such a predator
If that’s the scene with the comic, that wasn’t even in the book. And yes make no mistake the director who’d solely made erotic fatale attraction films before Lolita knowingly romanticized it. He added in a few more unnecessary scenes that weren’t in the book, that we’re definitely “romantic”. It’s sickening
And remember when the scene where she is reading a book on the lawn and the sprinklers are on.
Idk how anyone could watch that movie as a “comfort film” or a “love story”. It’s insanely uncomfortable and I was genuinely disturbed and depressed after watching it. It just gives you this sinking feeling
@@psychinteresting727I just watched it for the first and I had to pause it to much in between because it was so uncomfortable to watch.
I feel like Lana is a type of person to romanticize her trauma as a coping mechanism and make it out to be art. Partly there’s nothing wrong with that but obviously when you’re that famous there are gonna be a lot of people who are gonna take it the wrong way
But you don’t know if she’s even doing that. We don’t know her life story. So this comment is just a projection. Let’s not blame young teenagers for “taking it the wrong way.” Elizabeth Grant is an adult who’s responsible for her own behavior.
@@suoutubez19 This!!
We don't know that though that's all just speculation
@@suoutubez19 that’s why they said “I feel like”
The problem I think as well is that Lana's fanbase is young, they're not adults and they aren't able to understand nuance they take everything at face value.
i feel like a woman writer director would nail lolita as an aesthetic tragic horror (midsommar vibes) movie accurately portraying how innocent dolores actually was and how creepy and narcissistic humbert was. men really dont get it like they for real think LITTLE GIRLS are seducing them. too many pedos on the loose. every time you're insecure about something just stop and think: is this beauty trend pedophilic (if it's not then it's probably racist but that's another story).
The book was written by a man
@@Drek492 just because the book was written by a man doesn’t mean there isn’t a clear track record of men misinterpreting it. A woman could still misinterpret it but I agree that I think a woman would do a better job.
@@Drek492 i'm aware. i just don't think the current men in hollywood are responsible enough to produce a film adaptation that captures the message of the book. they have proved that multiple times. i and many others would like a woman's take on it.
@@rachelgrubman4606 i didn't see your comment before i replied too but it's funny we said essentially the same exact thing 😂
@Baie des villes Oh yea, I remember the infamous Brittany Zamora case. I don't believe in death penalties but she should've gotten one. Such a horrible, creepy person. Instead she only got 25 years or something
When I was 14 I had a short relationship with a boy of 19 almost 20. Luckily, he never got to anything sexual because we lasted very little, but I remember hearing him saying that he did want to. Now, being 19 years old, I am disgusted. I remember thinking it was super cool because an older boy had looked at me. I also had a friend who dated a 24-year-old man while she was 15. Nobody thought anything wrong because we were all just as immature as she was. But now, being older, we are horrified. It's terrible how these relationships are sometimes normalized, and how this type of teaching can make us believe that we are super popular because an older boy looked at us. When they have to be in jail
when i was a young girl online i would get older men trying to get pics and make moves on me. i would give them fake pictures of women from google and give them completely fake information then ghost and report them when i got bored lol. it was a relatively safe way to explore all that bs as a child without actually putting myself at risk.
@@cupknee kinda fucked up if u ask me haha
While I was on exchange in France at 15, a classmate who was also 15 was dating a 26-year-old. They shared a hotel while on holiday together, with her parents support, so they were being intimate I am sure and this seemed to be common knowledge which her parents and other parents of classmates were OK with (at least that's what they made everyone believe; who knows what they thought privately). When I told my parents about this later, expressing my shock and disgust, my dad just said (a little shocked too) "well, that's France for you!" It's been years since that but I still think about the whole situation. I had no interest in dating until recently so wouldn't have been at much risk of being groomed, and I did hold on to my disgust at large age-gap relationships involving young people, so thank god it had no negative effects by putting me at risk. But I'm still horrified at the response by every adult involved for treating this like an acceptable situation that's only a little unusual but we should just move on from and leave be. These adults had a responsibility to unequivocally condemn this from the start and let every child around know this man's behaviour was unacceptable. It's more than the person being groomed and raped, it's the children around who hear about these things and see them that need to also see them as bad in order to know to seek help if they find themselves being groomed and to know that this man is not in love with them: he's manipulating them and is a creep. (people of all genders can be pedophiles though also) Anyway I hope to be the type of adult now to not make these mistakes and to protect kids as best I can from horrible things.
When you're 14, 19 doesn't even seem like that big of a difference? You think you're almost an adult yourself so 19 doesn't sound that old. But when you're 19, 14 is literally a child. You look back at yourself at that age and realise there is a HUGE difference. I'm sorry for what you (and your friend) went through ❤️
Also that's why it's so easy for older guys to prey on younger girls. You may have felt mature for a 14 year old but that 19 year old knew you were a child. I hope he never got to any other young girls.
The edition of Lolita that I have has a close up of a freckled child as the cover. No makeup, no seductive pose, just an obviously very little girl looking directly into the camera in a sombre way. I think that it takes the subject matter seriously, has an appropriate tone, and serves to remind you that Dolores is an abused little kid - not a seductress with heart shaped sunglasses and cherry red lipstick, which is the impression that first time readers might be coming to the book with, thanks to the movies.
True! Glad that your copy was more sensitive with the cover although I would like to say that although your copy’s cover was not the target for his words, the author did say that he didn’t want ANY girls on the cover of any published copies of Lolita (which clearly everyone has disregarded/disrespected, and was a rule he tried to make precisely because of what they’ve done (made it seem sexual) and technically your edition doesn’t keep to this.
Of course they probably didn’t know and they followed the spirit of his wish - just thought it was worth mentioning
The first time I saw the book it was just a 10 year old sat on grass and smiling in a normal, non seductive way. No different then pictures of me or my friends on family holidays
"nymphette", "coquette", "doelette" posts still exist on tumblr to this day. it's a lot more niche though, and it's mostly dominated by young girls with eating disorders or complicated relationships with older men in their lives. madison beer, ariana grande, nina sayers from black swan, the women of kpop and young vintage actresses are probably the the ones romanticized the most in that circle now.
You know, if only you knew the truth of what you speak, because you obviously don't...prejudice against the living is a sin; even if they are disabled.
This is such a good point
young girl wih eating disorder here... i feel extremely called out
We need a female director to make a lolita movie and maybe finally we will get a real adaptation that’s not just “cutesy aesthetic” and completely contradicts the point of the book.
That, but also absolutely more beautiful aestheticly pleasing movies with more healthy relationships
Yes more movies, shows and books in general made for women by women.
It’s because HollyWood is run by Pedophiles
Well, actually the point of the book was to show how f*cked up it was. That was the intention of the book and it got lost.....
I haven’t read the book but I thought Kubricks version was pretty good, it was uncomfortable and awkward as it should be
Lolita was heavily popular on tumblr way before 2014. I got into it and out of it before 2013. Like super into it in like 2011-2012
Pictures of like really thin girls bodies with bruises, cute kid things, TONS of stills from the Lolita movie, p*rn gifs lol it was way worse back then I think
Yeah and then the tumblers *orn purge happened, since it had a lot of account using 'nymphet' in there 18+ posts. Tumblr took it as 18 and up and erased majority of the things on that tag unfortunately.
People still to this day, use nymphet for there *orn post 🤢
Exactly,I’m still an avid Tumbler user *but* it was awful over there.
it was such a cesspool back then lmao and i’ve heard it’s only gotten worse… sometimes i think i miss my tumblr phase but i’m reminded of all the weird shit that gets glorified on there and i remember that i’m better off without it
Yesss. I was gonna say this was big wayyy before 2014
honestly as someone who's very active on aesthetic tumblr nowadays (especially things that can b considered nymphet although i'm a heavy supporter of #nokinknymphet) it's still the same, unfortunately
Lolita is a horror story and nothing can change my mind🙃
Literature is amongst my biggest passions in life, and I 100% agree. Note just the content, the format is definitely designed to be as unsettling as possible with out of place descriptions and the inside view of Humbert's madness. It's definitely a horror, not you're typically gore or gothic horror but horror none the less. I'd say it fits into the psychology horror genre mixed with a little horror crime minus the mystery element.
Absolutely! Reminds me of some old horrors that I loved, wherein the monster turned out to be the charming protagonist. Much more frightening than any monster from wherever.
@@WolfBitesAndSleepyGraves I genuinely feel that casting Peter Sellers, and framing it as a charming comedy, was playing up to the false narrative. Sellers' performance is pure comedy, but taken very seriously. These days you get a lot of comedy actors cross over to horror but it's never taken seriously. It really is a fascinating adaptation. I think it needs to be iterated that the Quilty character, in the film, is also purely false narrative. It is Humbert presenting Quilty, his accuser, as the bigger monster. An exaggerated caricature. Openly flaunting his abuses while poor Humbert remains an innocent victim of seduction.
@@happinesstan I completely agree. I feel like Lolita is a story that has to be told by someone with a good understanding of how it feels to be afraid of an adult. The misunderstanding of source material seems to come down to a really bizarre belief that any girl would be "grateful" for attention from an older man. That's why the discontinued Lolita musical is so bad and why the film seems to tell a completely different story, treating Humbert like a charming hero rather than an abuser. As well as this Dolores in the book is described as basically being a regular kid, there's descriptions of her doing gross kid things like picking her nose and playing with locks of her hair, cry and stamp when she's frustrated, I can vividly remember a line about her having "monkey-like nimbleness". These being described in detail by Humbert in the book make it clear that he's a creepy old man in every sense of the word. Sue Lyons is a wonderful actress but is older than Delores in the book and when on screen is required to act "seductively", and is depicted with perfectly styled hair, shaved legs and calm delicate movement. All of which make her seem older and more appealing to the male gaze. In a way the movie is almost like Humbert's ideal fantasy of what happened, rather than a solid retelling.
honestly Wattpad made me feel toxic relationships were fun and the emotional high was experience-worthy . This made me go on and date someone 13 years older and that was the worst time for my mental health :( I did romanticise a lot of it and regret it
i’m so sorry 💜💜💜
@@tate9133 so kind of you 🥺🥺🥺💜💜
@l c we need them hehe younger girls need a non toxic one to look up to :)
13 years ?
That's... unsettling
Wish u well 🍀💛
@@dc9067 yeah 😅 thank you ! God bless you !!
there’s no doubt that tumblr, instagram, twitter etc impacted our childhoods growing up, but i still think it’s so insane the choke hold tiktok has on the current generation and society. everything is literally back in a loop of repetition, but somehow even worse than before??? it’s insane. it’s no secret that people like you are speaking up about the problems with such resurgences, but somehow the younger people still don’t care, even with the knowledge of its problems.
people also spoke up back in the day. maybe their opinions and voices weren't as accessible as now with video essays for example, but they did speak up. i wasn't in the soft grunge community, but i was in other online spaces i really should NOT have been and that i was way too young for (even though at the time i believed that i was "mature for my age", also because other online peers - that i later realised were grooming me - told me so); and for me personally, i simply thought that i was better than whatever dangerous/problematic/etc scenarios older people were describing. today, i look back and shiver at certain things i did, thought and saw, because i now understand what these older people were trying to point out. it's a teenage thing i think. you literally believe that it's not about you; and then you realise that you actually were a victim years later. maybe the style of conversation has to change to get through teens. this isn't the case for this video at all (i love it btw! just in case you're reading this jordan 🥰), but oftentimes the narrative seems very condescending and as if it was trying to entirely blame the teens for their behaviour, when the media is quite literally trying to romanticise certain topics by making everything look pretty so that teenagers feel like they almost have to follow it
Some people need to remember when thinking about age gap relationships is that just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s right. Sure, a 17 year old sleeping with a 25 year old isn’t illegal and could definitely be consensual, but there still is a power imbalance. Usually, age gap relationships aren’t a problem the older both people get (e.g. a 30 year old dating a 40 year old, etc).
I dated a 21yo when I was 18 and the power imbalance between me being a high schooler at the time and him already in uni and lined up for a job after was staggering looking back. I'm now 22 dating a 25yo guy for half a year and when we started dating I was kind of hung up by the age gap being the same as with guy number one. But yeah the difference between two university students, even between a bachelor's and aspiring PhD student is so much smaller than between a HS student 1 1/2 years from graduation and a uni student.
I think a 25 year old with a 17 year old would be skating on the edge of illegality surely. I was actually surprised you said it was legal. I don't know though.
A power imbalance isn't limited to that though. How about a 22 year old university student with a 30 year old man with an established career? I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm just pointing that out.
17 doesn't have to be legal, until 18 - it's upto the parents to decide on the rape charges, it's just the state can issue automatic charges under 16.
@@myst.leissa to clarify, in a lot of states the legal age of consent is 16. This means that theoretically there are no consequences. However, since they are still a minor, the parents/legal guardians can still press charges against the older individual because of their children’s ages.
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK🙌
as someone who had this whole lolita nyphmet aesthetic, from watching the films and others (american beauty, jeune et jolie, poison ivy, the crush) etc and listening to ldr since i was 13... it's best not to get intertwined with this whole aesthetic. im 20 and i literally feel expired, stale and old when in reality im so young. oh and feeling less feminine as a poc and developing an ed bc all the girls were thin, white etc. so yeah sucks seeing this new wave, keep seeing tiktoks or new tumblr blogs made. :/
Yup.
I can slowly see myself deteriorating into these ideas. Especially since 23. When people called me a baby when i was 21 i would laugh
Thank you for your insight
I hope you find your peace ❤️
@@silentlyapparent9288 thank you so much!
Even before the films came out Lolita was romanticized. Foreign editions of the novel featured cover art that is meant to look erotic, and it was even marketed as an erotic novel. Nabokov did not approve of this. Also for the Kubrikc film, Nabokov only allowed production to happen if he was credited for writing, but I don't believe he had the imput he hoped for.
Yes I heard they even used actual CP on some foreign covers
jeez poor Nabokov, I'm gonna have to look into this way more I didn't realise he didn't approve a lot of what the media did to his work
@@joolzie3743 Yeah I heard a lot about him being disappointed of them ruining the message of his book. It least he didn’t live to discover Epstein’s Lolita express plane.
They made her 14 in the films because they thought that would make it less pedophillic than in the book when she was around 10 so that they could make her have a more developed body to sexualise. They seemed to think making her a young teenager made it better,but it's still grooming and it's disgusting and sick. Humbert is a vile predator hiding from his own twisted mind by convincing himself she's flirty,and the film industry failed to convey that and I'm very disappointed in them,if you can't do it right don't do it at all! Especially in such an important groundbreaking story!
While I get your point, and they probably were trying to make it "better", Dolores is 12-14 for most of the novel. Personally, I think it's probably more ethical to hire an older teenage actress for the role instead of acting out grooming a 10yo who probably doesn't know what's going on
They didn't fail to do anything of the sort. The film is a portrayal of Humbert's false narrative. The point is that Dolores is a world away from the character in Humbert's false narrative. Portraying that on film would be cumbersome, and is unnecessary. The audience is aware that she is a vulnerable child, what occurs on screen is horrific, putting it up there with some of the best horrors.I would agree that the film industry has not fully acknowledged it's quality, but I feel a lot of Kubrick's work is highly critical of the industry.
i know its small, but i feel like something worth mentioning is that in the book dolores is an olive-skinned latina girl, vs in the movie she's pale, blonde-haired, and blue eyed. i think that her whiteness definitely aided in her romanticization under the pale grunge aesthetic centered around very pale white girls.
waiiiit is she really Latina in the book?
@@ivy-io6wz I’ve read the book and I haven’t heard anything about her being Latina. Maybe her dad was Mexican? But that wouldn’t make sense because Charlotte is racist and ask Humbert Humbert if he’s a “strange strain of something?” Asking if he’s got any poc in his family
@@ivy-io6wz yeah! delores is a spanish name, and shes explicitly described as tanned with brown hair. its been a while since i read the book, so the specifics are blurry. this may have not been intentional on nabakov's part, but im pretty sure it was, that one of her nicknames was lola, and "lolita" roughly means little lola in Spanish. adding ita or ito is affectionate or making something smaller than the original word. which makes the lolita nickname creepier in my opinion.
@@elaescobar5263 oh yeah I think Dolly was born in Mexico, so there's a chance her dad carried Mestizo blood or was white passing and it carried over Dolly?
I never considered it lmao. I always saw her as being olive skinned in my head who just tans well
@@alexisrobinson9180 i couldve been wrong, but i swore it was suggested in the book. that being said, charlotte can be racist and still have had a mestizo child. dolores is a spanish name and all
TikTok is literally 2014 Tumblr and everything wrong with it. Seriously why do people not learn?
every year, more people turn 14 🤷♀️
@@leiwue Your comment is so true. As long as there are humans and those reach teenage-hood these base interests and experiences and feelings are going to be brought up again and again, repeatedly for generations and that's just fine and natural. Us the newly grown ups should teach and guide them as our elders did.
skoda said it but there are going to be countless generations of new, naive people having to learn the same mistakes we did on their own terms, hopefully with the guidance of videos like this and people sharing their own experiences from the past. it’s sad but it’s life. there are always going to be 14 year old girls figuring themselves out and broadcasting their discoveries for people online. last generation was on tumblr, this generation it’s on tiktok, and there will be generations beyond zoomers that will get into their own weird teenage shit too.
One of their reasons is that we lost fandom communities. There are fandoms but there are no moderators, admins, rules, etc. It's wild
Especially the pro anorexia and romanticisation of depression and self harm and abuse
Lol when boxed water was ✨ aesthetic ✨
We need a female director to do a new version of Lolita if we want to accurately portray how creepy Humbert Humbert is lol
not if she’s like “cuties” director, lol
@@FruityHachi anyone but her 😭
@@FruityHachi pls not her 😭✋
no we dont need to portray a child in a relationship on screen with an adult. its a cp story once filmed
There's a movie called The Tale (2018) that is based on the true story of the director being preyed upon by adults and coming to terms with it. Really well made but incredibly disturbing. If you decide to check it out, be warned, it holds no punches and is one of the most disturbing movies I've seen.
i think a lot of young girls say that they like older men because a lot of the time they aren't taken seriously (because society hates teenage girls 🙄) and having an older man, who people are socialised to think are mature and 'in charge', give them attention and the illusion of being taken seriously is what draws young girls to them
thisss is like we feel more mature? ugh I hate society
Society doesn’t hate teenage girls
@@mrrabia1 most things that mostly teenage girls love are only considered childish or stupid (color pink, bands like one direction, pop music etc)
@@mrrabia1 yes it does
Absolutely. And having been groomed as a teen, being told I was so mature for my age at 17, it's sobering to now being an actual adult and men in their 40s and older still not taking me and my opinions seriously, because apperently 10 years later I'm suddenly too young to know anything (I'm 28).
Honestly thank you for making this. As weird as it may sound I was at the verge of tears by the end of the video.
This made me realize how the whole tumblr-Lolita-nymphet-Lana del Rey-sugar daddy “aesthetic” has shaped the mindset + opinions I have over things till this day.
When I was 14 I saw no problem in dating someone who was Over the age of 25. I developed lots of crushes on my male teachers and even almost ended up in a affair with one. I sexualized myself and my age. I’m 17, almost 18 now and I’m starting to feel extremely undesirable and “expired” now, which is not okay at all considering the fact that I’m soooo incredibly young. This video + the comments made me realize that this is not an okay mindset at all, but that I’m also not alone in this.
I relate, hope you get well and heal
I'm also in the same boat and I get the struggle. But I hope everything turns out well for you!
if lolita is anything it’s a horror not a romance people who romanticise it can just stay back 💀 like it’s suck a red flag, like if they like the relationship within it then that’s weird asf
Literally like it’s supposed be a thriller if anything like can there be a movie adaptation for something that it actually is instead of trying to add unnecessary romance
I've never read the book, but the book is why people misunderstand the concept. From a child's perspective, a loli(ta), is just a very cute little girl, they don't see the sexual side of this; why destroy what they love? Is it really worth it to spoil their hopes and dreams of being adorable? Granted, Adults should always know better than to sexualize minors.
finally someone calling out leonardo dicaprio for his weird predatory behaviour
Yeah a lot of people just laugh it off but it’s really alarming
YES
Can you explain?
IKR!!! He’s fucking gross
@@izzzzaaaayyyyy he is like 50 or something and he only dated women under 25. Like he always break up with them when they turn 25.
I was groomed from age 16 until I was legal at which point she found the opportunity to trap me into a long term relationship, because I was 19 and stupid and she was 32 and narcissistic. ("Oh, you're running from domestic violence? You can stay at my place...") My heart goes out to anyone who has gone through this. I wish there were better and effective ways to call this out, but it seems nearly impossible.
Whenever a young person is ahead of the curve in their maturity they may look for older friends who better understand them without having the tools to tell genuine affection, friendship, and support from exploitative, calculating predators.
@Eetaxz﹐★ Hugs and support. You deserved better.
It's amazing how hard it can be to talk about and how much shame *WE* end up carrying even when we didn't know better, even as victims. I hear you.
@Eetaxz﹐★ Therapy is a godsend!
that interview is so disgusting... it's obvious that he doesn't see it as it is, which is child grooming :(
He totally see's it as some sort of forbidden love story
@@incharak1927 totally!! absolutely disgusting- i hope hes never around children >:0
Man I would love a Lolita adaptation by a female director and writer. Like Diablo Cody or the lady who did literally everything on the production of The Love Witch.
Anna Biller
EXACTLY OMG
I JUST SAID THIS LIKE WE KNOW THE FEELING OF A CREEPY MAN LOOKING AT US WEIRD
If they could accurately portray lolita as she is in the book by not overly sexualizing her and make it very clear she is a CHILD by keeping her obvious child-like behaviors it would definitely shift the tone to more what the book had in mind. They need to make it obvious that Humbert Humbert is a creepy narcissist and not make him overly sympathetic. I feel like a female director would know how to do that the best...
@@thehappyrecluse yes this
I also feel very bad for Lana that her songs aren’t just meaningless lyrics. She has add instances where she has been groomed. She even had a not ok relationship with a male boarding school teacher who introduced her to Lolita. She never said if the relationship went passed forbidden drives, etc. But I truly don’t want to know. She’s older now and I hope she’s healed from it all☹️
Given A&W um I'm not sure how well that healing is going. The song is honestly a haunting 7 seven minutes
“everyone left tumblr and scattered off to twitter”
Me, with my same blog I’ve had for 10 years now and still go on tumblr every day 👀👀
every day? wow, give yourself a break (only if you want to though)
oh..
haha guess one should be careful with generalizing statements
Lmaooooo same (〃ﾟ3ﾟ〃)
Same 😭
I read the book and I was kind of shocked, it really opened my eyes to how society really fetishises this power dynamic. The book was very clear about how disgusting the main character was. He even wrote how he SAW how uncomfortable and disgusted Doleres was by him but he didn't really care. But the way society makes it seem it was this taboo but saucy thing. Very eye-opening.
There's an unreleased Lana song called Be My Daddy (it's catchy, leave me alone) that I've had saved on an unreleased songs playlist for a few years, and the video is fanmade ofc and has a bunch of clips from various shows and movies, including the '90s Lolita movie. I went and watched it recently and the person who made the video recently posted a comment under it saying that she shouldn't have romanticized Lolita and that she had been too young to know it wasn't a romantic love story. Now that's growth and we love to see it
Thank you for mentioning how creepy Leonardo Dicaprio's behaviour is!!!!! I've never understood why people give him a pass. Being in an age gap relationship is fine when both parties are full grown adults. But having multiple relationships where your partners are never older than 23? Gross.
I'm 24 now and the idea of going out with anyone in their early 20's is a no go for me. I know how impressionable and immature I was lol.
24 is still early 20s...
I would say 2 ppl should be allowed to have a bigger age gap but if they are older than 25,fully grown adults nothing wrong with that,but a 50 Yr old man for example,dating a 20 Yr old,yeah that's disturbing.
I’m 23 and I can’t imagine dating anyone who’s 18 or 19 and sure as hell not under that.
"Legality doesnt always correlate with morality" very nice said!
if I remember early tumblr correctly , the pro-ana ed community definitely played a huge role in popularizing lolita; romanticizing the very small, "svelte" body type that only a girl who's body has not matured yet can have, mixed with lana's popularity and cult following back in the day gave birth to a monster. I remember ballet and kate moss being romanticized in this way as well.
lana’s song “lolita” is so popular yet no one actually cares to realize it’s abt grooming😭
i love that song with every inch of my being but it is not to be perceived as a love song whatsoever
i don't think it's whole lana's fault. we live in a pedophilical (i think i spell it right 😭) society so.. she kinda contributes to it? sure, but she isn't the only one to blame
@No U she didn't sleep with Weinstein wtf are u on????
tbh besides the word 'lolita' the song doesn't really have suspicious lyrics
@No U She did sing about him in Cola but she said that she just wanted to sing about "the kind of man who bestows diamonds upon young starlets" and happened to chose him, doesn't mean she slept with him.
my fav book cover is the one where it’s humbert forcefully painting dolores’ toenails. it perfectly reflects humbert’s idealisation towards dolores and how he had all the control
unrelated but your hair is super cute♡
I have this as a poster in my room and love it for the same reason
@@tanvitamhane2482 it's grown out a lot now :(
"he hit me and it fell like a kiss"
Written by...Phil Spector 😬 there are multiple layers of bad when you peel back the aesthetic
Geez, there are some situations that feel like that 😢
Great video. I wish more people would see "Call me by your name" under this light too.
EXACTLY OMG
Especially considering the author himself was literally into young children and openly said so
@@Narurider wait where was this? Genuine question - do you have a link?
@@dontbefatuousjeffrey2494 ecartelera.com/noticias/entrevista-andre-aciman-call-me-by-your-name-54563/ here if you use google translate and search for every mention of 12 you'll find the author talking about how he finds 12 year old girls attractive
@@Narurider Oh. My God. That puts the whole thing in a rather different light.
Thank you so much for your kind assistance :-)
i came across “coquette/dollette” tiktok and noticed it was similar to the lolita aesthetic but without the grooming aspects, just the girly vintage summer type of fashion. i love that style so i was relieved i could enjoy the aesthetic without the uncomfortable aspects but people are still finding ways to sneak lolita into it which yeah... not pleased with that.
Yeah I love the style it makes me feel pretty and girly. It’s sad that some use that as an excuse to romanticize the book/movie :(
same, i always liked the ~girly preppy pink lipgloss red lipstick~ aesthetic
but everytime i looked into it i HAD to see something about lolita, a book which disgusted me, and it made me feel weird/wrong for liking it, so i just had to avoid it for so long
thank god i found coquette
Coquette is very cute but it’s still…problematic, due to the fact edtwt _really_ loves it. Beware if you search that up on Twitter and you have history with disordered eating. 😭 it’s so uncomfortable to watch.
@@Lunautau101 i adore the aesthetic but it’s being claimed by racists, pro ana communities, and lolita romanticisers. oh well.
Adapting a book like this should honestly not be done to begin with. You’d obviously have to have a child actress pretend to get groomed on television, that cannot be ethical. Some things (especially with children included) shouldn’t be depicted on tv, even if it does sadly happen in real life
you do realize that there is adults who look like children who could portray a child getting groomed and it would be ethical...just food for thought
I used to like older guys until I was in an ab*sive relationship with one. These days, I will not date a man unless he is roughly my age or up to 5 years younger than me (I’m 29). Older men have only tried to control and harm me so I just don’t go with them anymore.
When I was in late middle school (I think starting at 13 or 14) and all the way through high school I was groomed and eventually assaulted by a guy that was 5 years older than me who was my friend’s brother. While I was in that situation I felt things were off sometimes, but also felt “cool” and “mature”. Looking back, I feel so gross and I wish I had realized that was going on. Now I have a super supportive and loving boyfriend who is two days older than me lol. I don’t see us breaking up in the future, but if it does I just can stand the thought of dating a guy that’s much older than me.
@Leptune Cannet anyone in a relationship no matter what age can be abusive yes. But what op is saying is that the abuse came from the fact that the man was older. The guy believed because he was older then her he was aloud to have control of her. And now op is saying their stepping away from older men to avoid that form of abuse
@Leptune Cannet age sometimes correlates with trauma
@Leptune Cannet Yes, but it's a lot easier to excuse some of the forms of manipulation with the smokescreen of age, especially when you're not experienced enough in dating as an adult to know better. It's a lot easier for older men to play on the lack of experience of much younger women to push them into situations that no grown woman, who knows better and would have a more even power dynamic with him, would knowingly agree to. And that's cornerstone of why these types of relationships - when you're a teenager - are kinda wrong. If you actually knew exactly what you were getting into with these older men, you wouldn't give them the time of day.
Also, cannot blame you there. Speaking from my own terrible experience, I completely understand the sentiment. I personally still find older men to be physically attractive (b/c I always have, it's an admittedly weird preference) but I am much less willing to pursue a relationship with someone significantly older than me.
And it's a perfectly valid choice to stick closer to your own age. And I'm glad you're not in that situation. However you got out and whatever form it took, it's wonderful when you make your way back to freedom. :)
I wrote my dissertation on Lana’s references to literature with a heavy focus on Lolita specifically so this was so interesting for me to watch afterwards. As a long term Lana fan, I look back on my teenage years listening to her and consequentially attempting to replicate her narrative in my own life (cringe)... It’s reassuring to me that videos like this are raising awareness for young girls nowadays!
omg i love to read it
Commenting hoping to read your dissertation!
fun fact: Nabokov actually said to not put any girls on the cover of the book
it’s good to take breaks when you need it-glad to see you back :)
YES, this video is so good. I hate how the movie adaptations frame delores as if she has power in that "relationship". The director even said at one point "they are rivals" **digusting**. They are not, because delores is a literal child!!! I think this leads to really problematic takes about young girls having power through their sexuality or other bullshit like that to justify grooming and predatory behaviour.
Nabokov explicitly said that he doesn't want Dolores to be on the cover of the books
This was so fab, you're just getting better and better
Legends supporting legends?? So happy to see it
Just some knowledge cuz I hear this all the time-Lana doesn’t sing Lolita anymore. She doesn’t agree with it anymore and so she just doesn’t perform it.
She actually didnt want to put lolita on born to die. She wanted some other but execs said it fit better
Yes. A lot of people think she wrote lolita to romanticise it when, unpacking the lyrics and production of it, lana was very clever in subtly showing how distasteful it was underneath the aesthetic of it.
I like the song but yeah it's better this way
I think it’s important to note that a lot of Dolores’s outfits are childlike in nature. The materials and patterns on her clothes are often seen on kids dresses. Ribbons especially. Just like with the doll/lolita fashion aesthetic, it basically screams “young girl”. So I find it annoying when it’s seen as inherently “romantic” or “sexual”.
Put me in a movie is meant to be interpreted similarly to the Lolita book; shocking, almost creepy, hence the overall sound of the song. For Lana del Rey, it was also a form of coping with her own experiences and trauma. The same goes for her song Lolita. It‘s nowhere near a love song which becomes pretty clear when you listen to the lyrics in the post-chorus (e.g. "No more skipping ropes, skipping heart beats with the boys downtown" etc.) Lana has never really romanticized the story of Lolita, abusive relationships, etc. She has just coped with her own experiences of these things through her art: a.k.a. her music. Ultraviolence, Lolita, Put me in a Movie and these types of songs of hers in general were never meant to be romanticized.
Yeah Put Me in a Movie is definitely not romanticizing anything, it's very somber and almost disconcerting in sound. And in Ultraviolence "he hit me and it felt like a kiss" feels more like an acknowledgement that she was being manipulated into thinking abuse was love, not that being hit was actually romantic.
This 💗
Idk I get the thought process behind songs like that, but she’s also written songs putting ppl like Harvey Weinstein, who she had an affair with, on a pedestal so 😬 (Ik it’s not what this video is about but the two are connected cos Weinstein is a literal predator as well)
fun fact i had a middle school teacher named ms. nabokov and didn't know why my parents thought that was so funny at the time
I LOVE this video and I just referenced it in my latest video. I learned that Lolita is inspired by the real life kidnapping of 11-year-old Sally Horner in 1948 which make the romanticisation of Lolita all the more disturbing when the same disgusting events happened to an actual child!!!
I cannot believe this is happening again... major flashbacks to high school, and that’s not something I want to relive