I really enjoyed your video. I just purchased this lens and it arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, this is one of the lenses Canon is no longer manufacturing. I understand that this lens is very touchy and requires a great deal of practice and patience. Your video has given me the the confidence to begin that process. Your segment about lighting was especially informative. I plan on buying a lighting system that attaches to the lens in the same manner as a filter. It may not be the best solution, but it's a start. I've already purchased a table top rail system and an extremely versatile tripod specifically for this lens. Your pointers and observations are invaluable for getting started. Thank you for such a great video.
Thanks Calvin, it's a long video, but I'm glad you got something from it. Check out my follow up video on this topic as I go through some flash setup ideas to use with this lens.
Thanks Barbara, I did a follow up video after this too which you may find interesting. I didn't really want the video to be so long though, but I just felt I had a lot to say. I need to try and give the same info in a shorter time! I'm glad you got something out of it.
I'd be interested in trying that flash setup, but the price is insane! I also already had some Godox flashes so it made sense to see what results I could get with those rather than use a dedicated (expensive!) macro flash.
I have my ring flash and macro rail from my 105 2.8 macro. I expect to stack every image with this lens. Should be fun. I tired quickly when messing about with extension tubes and teleconverters. Chromatic abberation was aweful for me when adding teleconverter. Great videos from photographers like you inspire me. Thank you.
Correction: this lens only has an f2.8 aperture at 1x magnification. As soon as you zoom in the maximum aperture decreases. At 5X magnification the widest aperture is only f16
It's not because your flash isn't diffused that it's what you call "harsh". It's because of the relative size of the light source. The farther away from the subject you put it the smaller it appears. If you had an actual strobe head in a 7"reflector a couple inches from the subject it would give you the same effect as your diffusion cloth because it's much larger than a flash head. Even if you don't have any diffusion cloth on it. Similarly, the macro flashes are so close to the subject, they appear large to it. If you wanted to do the same thing with a light 6 feet away, it would have to be a huge 10 foot diameter beauty dish to get the same effect.
It's true the size of the light relative to the subject is the most important thing with soft light, but some diffusion helps scatter the light too and also helps avoid ugly rectangular flash reflections from the Canon macro flash. With the Canon macro flash, although you can adjust the angle, you are pretty much stuck with the distance to subject. In my follow up macro flash video I used a flash mounted on the barrel of the lens which can be moved close or further away and is a larger light source than the macro flash by Canon. If you have your flash close to the subject the light source is softer relative to it, but it also means light fall off is almost immediate. Compared to a much larger light source that even when further away than the canon Macro flash, is relatively still bigger. This means there is less light falloff and some of the background is illuminated too.
Great video and thanks! I'm debating getting this lens, like you I probably wouldn't use it that often. I did use the reversing ring, homemade flash box lined with tin foil and also had an extension lead for my flash so I could place the flash at the front but like you said they are all janky really, making it very hard to use. What concerns me is seeing the subject in the viewfinder or LCD and the tiny focus plane. Most insects dont stay still long enough to stack them.
I keep mine at f16 all the time now and pretty much use no ambient light. This means you get more clarity and can freeze slight movement. The next stage is getting the light where you want it. I feel comfortable shooting handheld all the time now, but something to stabilise your body really helps. It's a tricky lens, but worth the amazing results.
Very informative video, much appreciated thanks for taking the time. I'm a bit confused about the point where you say you see it through the lens in F2.8, but then when you take the photo it is at F16 (or whatever you had set it to). Does this mean that your focusing is actually different to what you had seen in the viewfinder (at 2.8) to what you see on the final shot? For example, you spend too long trying to get focus right at 2.8, but when you take the shot you realise there is actually more in focus than you thought due to the actual DOF delivered in the final image? Also, just fyi, I did a bit of close up photography (not exactly macro) during the hot period this year, but I also used some reflectors to reflect more sunlight which helped a lot (a white and a silver). It was increasing my exposure capabilities by as much as up to 5 or 6 stops, and removing some of the harsh shadows giving a more balanced light.
Sorry for the slow reply, I haven't ben checking my notifications. Yes you are always viewing your subject through the largest aperture of the lens (unless it is a lens with a manual aperture mechanism). This is great because if you were taking an f11 shot and were looking through an f11 aperture, it would be very dark and hard to see to focus. This is why cameras have depth of field preview buttons. It's so you can compose your shot, but when you press the button it gives you a preview of what will be in and out of focus. I don't use it really as I just guess what aperture I want, take a shot, have a look, then adjust. A reflector is definitely a good bet, the only downside is that it is another thing to set up and insects don't hang around long, especially if there is a big reflector flapping about. If you had something fixed in some way to the lens though that you don't have to hold, that would help. Flash just makes things quite convenient and gives lots of control over light power.
@@MomentphotographyCoUk Be careful that it is not totally exact. When you are at 1:1 the minimum magnification it is a true 2,8 but when the magnification increases the corrective coefficient must be applied and the resulting aperture full open when fully extended is close to T:16 (resulting aperture)! Than it is very dark. You talk about what we call the preselection of aperture and you are right because you have a preselection of aperture but you may apply a corrective coefficient because of elongation of "tirage" (I don't know what you can say in english). The preselection is to choose a work aperture, preparing the shoot at full open diaphragm and the diaphragm closes when you release the trigger. If you go to very high magnification you need an assist light. (because I use this lens since more than 10 years on Salticid in the field without tripod) I need more light to be able to see the subject in the viewfinder especially at higher magnification. All the best.
@@limoucheu8522 Ok I think I see what you mean. By the time you are fully extended on the lens, some light has been lost for the purposes of composition, as it is harder for the light to get to the viewfinder/sensor when the barrel is longer. Even with this in mind though, my point was that you are always composing your image with the most possible light available through the lens rather than having to compose your image through the viewfinder at the aperture the photo will be taken at (e.g. F16).
@@MomentphotographyCoUk That is a great chance for you, you probably have a great eyesight but it is unfortunately not my case and with a camera of the two number séries (Eos 70, 80 or 90 D) I need absolutely addition of light because at 5X magnification the T aperture is 16 (resulting of elongation of the lens because the diaphragm position don't change during moving the optical elements and than the aperture opening is really smaller). I have a little more easy with my Eos 1Ds Mark III because the 1 série have extraordinary viewfinders. I don't use mirrorless cameras. But it is still usable I begin macro since it was Canon F1 and Ae-1 with bellows and inverted lenses. It was completely different. Another interesting thing about this incredible lens that the focal length vary with magnification. The 65 mm drops seriously around 3X (it was necessary to don't have to much long barrel). (I remember when two belows on my F1 it was....another time). I love this lens because it allows me to work exclusively in the field and that is essential for me. No tripod only my MPE, camera and flash bracket. considerably simpler that what i have used during the eighties.
@@limoucheu8522 I have used the lens on a 5D3 and 5DSR so maybe they have brighter viewfinders. I did own a 20D and a 40D some years ago and I think I vaguely remember the viewfinder not being as good. I wouldn't say my eyesight is great and there is a little luck involved when focusing with such a shallow depth of field.
The Yongnuo twin flash YN-24EX system is a much more inexpensive option to the Canon flash and it produces fantastic results once you diffuse the flashlight.
Yes i was looking at that flash setup as well as the canon one just yesterday. I have some reservations about the Yongnuo one though. I have come up with another solution with existing equipment that is better than the one in this video and uses equipment i already own. I may make a video about it if people are interested. I’ll be running some tests on this new setup and tweaking it over time. So far the results have been fantastic though and offer some improvements on the collapsible diffusion panel with the 580ex II flash.
@@MomentphotographyCoUk Would be curious to see the new setup. Thanks for all the tips that you've shared here! I've been using an 18-200mm zoom for amateur macro shots of flowers and like size subjects, but I'm eager to explore smaller worlds with the MP-E 65mm. =)
Thanks, being new to uploading my own videos, it means a lot. At the moment i am mostly using the lens at 2-3x magnification. Above this and it is virtually impossible to get a sharp image without a tripod. I’m still experimenting, and may use a Godox AD200 flash to get more power and a faster recycling time. Although i’d have to make some sort of rig, as it wouldn’t sit on the hotshoe like a normal flashgun. A shame Nikon don’t offer something similar, but there is still plenty of ground to explore in the macro world.
No matter you have similar lenses in Laowa. 100 mm 2x (3,2 if cropped at 1,6 on APSC), and another 25 mm 2,5 x to 5 x. These are extremely good lenses (the 100 mm macro is sharper than any other 100 mm lenses in the market even the canon, 100 mm is L usm (softer and aromatic aberration) or the 100 Nikkor VR (clearly an old optic formula now) the only lens surpassing it is the zeiss one. But the zeiss is only 1:1 not 2:1. I use since several years the incredible 15 mm macro 1:1 lens.
Excelent video,THANK YOU I wonder if I can use the superb MPE with a mirrorless Nikon Z6 and a canon to nikon adapter , but I don’t quite know how am I going to change the aperture since the MPE hasn’t got an aperture ring? Regards Alin
Thanks for such a informative video! I use the MP-E to photograph insects that are as small as 1 mm (sometimes less). I put my Canon 5D Mark IV on a copy stand for vertical shots. I have to make my subjects temporarily drunk with ethyl acetate. I then try and image them before they take off. My problem at this mag is that there is so little space for focusing light. My Canon twin flash units get in the way when I have to manipulate the beasts. Problem #1 is finding a focusing lamp (I use the ones designed for dissecting microscopes) intense enough to focus at 5X and F16. Problem #2 is fitting the flash units close enough, but not so close as to prevent manipulating the subject. Someday I hope to get brave enough to try and focus stack tiny live insects. Any advice here?
I have never properly focus stacked macro images either, so I can't give any advice there. However Thomas Shahan was the person who first inspired me to up my game a little with macro. Look for him on TH-cam, he really does have some great videos, including some mention of focus stacking.
You shouldn't use a cable release. You should connect USB to the computer and shoot tethered. You can trigger the shutter from the computer and also review the images on the computer instantly.
There's nothing wrong with a cable release, if used carefully. It is however just one option and yes you can, and if possible should shoot tethered, it just depends on how much faff you want or how serious you want to get about it. For some people they may not have the option of connecting to a computer to shoot tethered.
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I really enjoyed your video. I just purchased this lens and it arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, this is one of the lenses Canon is no longer manufacturing. I understand that this lens is very touchy and requires a great deal of practice and patience. Your video has given me the the confidence to begin that process.
Your segment about lighting was especially informative. I plan on buying a lighting system that attaches to the lens in the same manner as a filter. It may not be the best solution, but it's a start. I've already purchased a table top rail system and an extremely versatile tripod specifically for this lens. Your pointers and observations are invaluable for getting started. Thank you for such a great video.
Thanks Calvin, it's a long video, but I'm glad you got something from it. Check out my follow up video on this topic as I go through some flash setup ideas to use with this lens.
Good video.
Thank you :-)
Thank you so much for this informative video. I have been viewing videos about this lens and yours is the best and most complete. B.
Thanks Barbara, I did a follow up video after this too which you may find interesting. I didn't really want the video to be so long though, but I just felt I had a lot to say. I need to try and give the same info in a shorter time!
I'm glad you got something out of it.
I use my MPE-65 with the MT26-EX flash and always hand held. I am thinking go getting a focus stack rail though.
I'd be interested in trying that flash setup, but the price is insane! I also already had some Godox flashes so it made sense to see what results I could get with those rather than use a dedicated (expensive!) macro flash.
@@MomentphotographyCoUk yongnuo yn24ex macro flash costs about 200 usd. Works perfect
Can’t wait to get one. I like a challenge.
It’s much easier with flash. Make sure you watch my other video on macro too. Happy photo taking.
I have my ring flash and macro rail from my 105 2.8 macro. I expect to stack every image with this lens. Should be fun. I tired quickly when messing about with extension tubes and teleconverters. Chromatic abberation was aweful for me when adding teleconverter. Great videos from photographers like you inspire me. Thank you.
Get either the MT24EX or the MT26EX twin light macro flash. I love this this lens
Great info mate. Thank you!
Thanks, there may be more to come as I have been working on some improvements.
Thank you. Very informative!
Glad you like it :-)
Correction: this lens only has an f2.8 aperture at 1x magnification. As soon as you zoom in the maximum aperture decreases. At 5X magnification the widest aperture is only f16
It's not because your flash isn't diffused that it's what you call "harsh". It's because of the relative size of the light source. The farther away from the subject you put it the smaller it appears. If you had an actual strobe head in a 7"reflector a couple inches from the subject it would give you the same effect as your diffusion cloth because it's much larger than a flash head. Even if you don't have any diffusion cloth on it. Similarly, the macro flashes are so close to the subject, they appear large to it. If you wanted to do the same thing with a light 6 feet away, it would have to be a huge 10 foot diameter beauty dish to get the same effect.
It's true the size of the light relative to the subject is the most important thing with soft light, but some diffusion helps scatter the light too and also helps avoid ugly rectangular flash reflections from the Canon macro flash.
With the Canon macro flash, although you can adjust the angle, you are pretty much stuck with the distance to subject. In my follow up macro flash video I used a flash mounted on the barrel of the lens which can be moved close or further away and is a larger light source than the macro flash by Canon.
If you have your flash close to the subject the light source is softer relative to it, but it also means light fall off is almost immediate. Compared to a much larger light source that even when further away than the canon Macro flash, is relatively still bigger. This means there is less light falloff and some of the background is illuminated too.
Great video and thanks! I'm debating getting this lens, like you I probably wouldn't use it that often. I did use the reversing ring, homemade flash box lined with tin foil and also had an extension lead for my flash so I could place the flash at the front but like you said they are all janky really, making it very hard to use. What concerns me is seeing the subject in the viewfinder or LCD and the tiny focus plane. Most insects dont stay still long enough to stack them.
I keep mine at f16 all the time now and pretty much use no ambient light. This means you get more clarity and can freeze slight movement.
The next stage is getting the light where you want it.
I feel comfortable shooting handheld all the time now, but something to stabilise your body really helps.
It's a tricky lens, but worth the amazing results.
Very informative video, much appreciated thanks for taking the time. I'm a bit confused about the point where you say you see it through the lens in F2.8, but then when you take the photo it is at F16 (or whatever you had set it to). Does this mean that your focusing is actually different to what you had seen in the viewfinder (at 2.8) to what you see on the final shot? For example, you spend too long trying to get focus right at 2.8, but when you take the shot you realise there is actually more in focus than you thought due to the actual DOF delivered in the final image? Also, just fyi, I did a bit of close up photography (not exactly macro) during the hot period this year, but I also used some reflectors to reflect more sunlight which helped a lot (a white and a silver). It was increasing my exposure capabilities by as much as up to 5 or 6 stops, and removing some of the harsh shadows giving a more balanced light.
Sorry for the slow reply, I haven't ben checking my notifications. Yes you are always viewing your subject through the largest aperture of the lens (unless it is a lens with a manual aperture mechanism). This is great because if you were taking an f11 shot and were looking through an f11 aperture, it would be very dark and hard to see to focus.
This is why cameras have depth of field preview buttons. It's so you can compose your shot, but when you press the button it gives you a preview of what will be in and out of focus. I don't use it really as I just guess what aperture I want, take a shot, have a look, then adjust.
A reflector is definitely a good bet, the only downside is that it is another thing to set up and insects don't hang around long, especially if there is a big reflector flapping about. If you had something fixed in some way to the lens though that you don't have to hold, that would help. Flash just makes things quite convenient and gives lots of control over light power.
@@MomentphotographyCoUk Be careful that it is not totally exact. When you are at 1:1 the minimum magnification it is a true 2,8 but when the magnification increases the corrective coefficient must be applied and the resulting aperture full open when fully extended is close to T:16 (resulting aperture)! Than it is very dark. You talk about what we call the preselection of aperture and you are right because you have a preselection of aperture but you may apply a corrective coefficient because of elongation of "tirage" (I don't know what you can say in english). The preselection is to choose a work aperture, preparing the shoot at full open diaphragm and the diaphragm closes when you release the trigger. If you go to very high magnification you need an assist light. (because I use this lens since more than 10 years on Salticid in the field without tripod) I need more light to be able to see the subject in the viewfinder especially at higher magnification. All the best.
@@limoucheu8522 Ok I think I see what you mean. By the time you are fully extended on the lens, some light has been lost for the purposes of composition, as it is harder for the light to get to the viewfinder/sensor when the barrel is longer.
Even with this in mind though, my point was that you are always composing your image with the most possible light available through the lens rather than having to compose your image through the viewfinder at the aperture the photo will be taken at (e.g. F16).
@@MomentphotographyCoUk That is a great chance for you, you probably have a great eyesight but it is unfortunately not my case and with a camera of the two number séries (Eos 70, 80 or 90 D) I need absolutely addition of light because at 5X magnification the T aperture is 16 (resulting of elongation of the lens because the diaphragm position don't change during moving the optical elements and than the aperture opening is really smaller). I have a little more easy with my Eos 1Ds Mark III because the 1 série have extraordinary viewfinders. I don't use mirrorless cameras. But it is still usable I begin macro since it was Canon F1 and Ae-1 with bellows and inverted lenses. It was completely different. Another interesting thing about this incredible lens that the focal length vary with magnification. The 65 mm drops seriously around 3X (it was necessary to don't have to much long barrel). (I remember when two belows on my F1 it was....another time). I love this lens because it allows me to work exclusively in the field and that is essential for me. No tripod only my MPE, camera and flash bracket. considerably simpler that what i have used during the eighties.
@@limoucheu8522 I have used the lens on a 5D3 and 5DSR so maybe they have brighter viewfinders. I did own a 20D and a 40D some years ago and I think I vaguely remember the viewfinder not being as good. I wouldn't say my eyesight is great and there is a little luck involved when focusing with such a shallow depth of field.
The Yongnuo twin flash YN-24EX system is a much more inexpensive option to the Canon flash and it produces fantastic results once you diffuse the flashlight.
Yes i was looking at that flash setup as well as the canon one just yesterday. I have some reservations about the Yongnuo one though. I have come up with another solution with existing equipment that is better than the one in this video and uses equipment i already own. I may make a video about it if people are interested. I’ll be running some tests on this new setup and tweaking it over time. So far the results have been fantastic though and offer some improvements on the collapsible diffusion panel with the 580ex II flash.
@@MomentphotographyCoUk looking forward to the next video!
@@MomentphotographyCoUk Would be curious to see the new setup. Thanks for all the tips that you've shared here! I've been using an 18-200mm zoom for amateur macro shots of flowers and like size subjects, but I'm eager to explore smaller worlds with the MP-E 65mm. =)
Travis Ladner have you seen my follow up video? I have progressed a bit more again since then too.
Evil Diesel glad you enjoyed it, I did do a second macro video if you haven’t already seen it.
Thank you for your upload. I myself shoot Nikon. I've never saw this 1-5x in Nikon. Unfortunally.
Thanks, being new to uploading my own videos, it means a lot.
At the moment i am mostly using the lens at 2-3x magnification. Above this and it is virtually impossible to get a sharp image without a tripod.
I’m still experimenting, and may use a Godox AD200 flash to get more power and a faster recycling time. Although i’d have to make some sort of rig, as it wouldn’t sit on the hotshoe like a normal flashgun.
A shame Nikon don’t offer something similar, but there is still plenty of ground to explore in the macro world.
No matter you have similar lenses in Laowa. 100 mm 2x (3,2 if cropped at 1,6 on APSC), and another 25 mm 2,5 x to 5 x. These are extremely good lenses (the 100 mm macro is sharper than any other 100 mm lenses in the market even the canon, 100 mm is L usm (softer and aromatic aberration) or the 100 Nikkor VR (clearly an old optic formula now) the only lens surpassing it is the zeiss one. But the zeiss is only 1:1 not 2:1. I use since several years the incredible 15 mm macro 1:1 lens.
I use the canon twin light macro flash wiht the omnibounce.
I had considered getting the Canon flash, but after seeing the results I got with what I already had, it didn't seem worth it
Excelent video,THANK YOU
I wonder if I can use the superb MPE with a mirrorless Nikon Z6 and a canon to nikon adapter , but I don’t quite know how am I going to change the aperture since the MPE hasn’t got an aperture ring?
Regards
Alin
Thanks for such a informative video! I use the MP-E to photograph insects that are as small as 1 mm (sometimes less). I put my Canon 5D Mark IV on a copy stand for vertical shots. I have to make my subjects temporarily drunk with ethyl acetate. I then try and image them before they take off. My problem at this mag is that there is so little space for focusing light. My Canon twin flash units get in the way when I have to manipulate the beasts. Problem #1 is finding a focusing lamp (I use the ones designed for dissecting microscopes) intense enough to focus at 5X and F16. Problem #2 is fitting the flash units close enough, but not so close as to prevent manipulating the subject. Someday I hope to get brave enough to try and focus stack tiny live insects. Any advice here?
I have never properly focus stacked macro images either, so I can't give any advice there. However Thomas Shahan was the person who first inspired me to up my game a little with macro. Look for him on TH-cam, he really does have some great videos, including some mention of focus stacking.
You shouldn't use a cable release. You should connect USB to the computer and shoot tethered. You can trigger the shutter from the computer and also review the images on the computer instantly.
There's nothing wrong with a cable release, if used carefully. It is however just one option and yes you can, and if possible should shoot tethered, it just depends on how much faff you want or how serious you want to get about it. For some people they may not have the option of connecting to a computer to shoot tethered.