Simple Answers: 1. Tanking and Healing is Unforgiving and Underappreciated 2. Tanking revolves around timing Defensives, or you get one shot. 3. Healing is toxic, un-fun, and incredibly stressful. Unless you're playing a Class with Poison/Curse Removal *cough cough* Shamans.... 4. DoT/Rot Damage is INCREDIBLY too high and is mostly unavoidable and overlaps often with heavy damage -- Which ties directly into points 1-3. This leads to a VERY toxic Playerbase, because they become very selective on their Comps. Because Damage is unforgiving which leads to Deaths being unforgiving, which leads to the Playerbase becoming unforgiving.
Also, the quantity of rewards are just straight up bad compared to the other activities in game. Banging your head against the wall for hours to have potentially nothing drop is ass.
What's wrong with m+? I spend and hour in dung finder to find a key or build my own team. We get inside. Some people die 5 times for any given reason. It's already too much because of new dying penalty. Key's done. Go next. Spend another hour in the queues....
Im a mid level tank at 2700. Everything in keys is fine, dragonflight was just so easy at the end that everyone is using that as their marker for how a key level should feel. 10s are extremely doable in all delve and normal gear. The big shift is that it punishes you alot more if you fail a mechanic. 1 person has 90% of kicks and cc? Well youre gonna fail that at any level unless everyone is overgeared out the ass. Full heroic dungeon gear is enough to do alot of mythic raid (granted you take 5 seconds to learn your bis stats) Im not a shill for blizzard, i rail hard against alot of things they dorait right now is solid and keys are fantastic.
1. Errors while doing m+ only burden tanks and healers. Instead of "enemies do more damage" and "this spell will eat 60% of your hp if not interrupted" make "u get a debuff that makes u do 10% less dps next 6 seconds, and it can stack". 2. Upgrading items is a nightmare. Never-ending grind. The math behind it just doesn't work. There is no guaranteed reward. 3. Affixes that contradict combat mechanics. For example, don't stand in the fire, but catch the orbs that are in the fire. 4. Bugs. Overal very low quality control (I'm looking at you dawnbreaker) And the cherry on the cake is the elitism and gatekeeping of wow players. "Because the game should be hard. "Just learn to play better lol". Blizzard feeds on this. The harder dungeons ,raids are, and the bigger the fomo is, the more boosts will be sold. People selling boosts buy tokens to have game time and new mounts from the item shop, and others buy tokens to have gold and buy boost.
I liked M+ back in Legion. High Mountain, Vault of Wardens, and The Naglfar. Approachable mechanics, linear in design. Now you have multiple routes and depth where many tanks can get lost and not be optimized enough, pull too much / little and amplifies the toxic players.
What I'd love to see for M+ in the future is: * Gear rewards appropriate to the difficulty of keys. * A return of challenge mode class/hero talent specific cosmetic ensambles and matching weapons as a reward for completing a set of keys.
As a Healer (Non-Shaman) --- If they reduce the damage that DoT/Rot is doing, everything will change. 1mil damage ticks on all 5-party members is INCREDIBLY stressful. Its unavoidable, and often overlaps with other damage. It F'n blows to heal right now unless you have Poison/Curse removal.
Very shortsighted. Problem 1: without the timer, there is absolutely no stakes. Anyone can do a +14 if they have 3 hours, and anyone can do a 16 if they have infinite time. Problem 2: no timer would encourage a hard switch into an MDI-style where speedrunning is key, since the leaderboard would be based on fastest runs. You don't do high keys for loot, you do it to climb the ladder. Mastery-driven players wouldn't mind, but the average reward-driven player would fuc*ing hate it. Because strategies trickle down, you'd end up doing an insane first pull, wiping, restarting over and over until you get it right. I guess it would be a good way to get the loot goblins out of M+.
The main problem is it just doesn't feel rewarding enough now and delves are far too good for how little effort they take. The other problem is blizz making too many changes all at once. They made tanks less self sufficient, dungeons have much more consistent burst damage or incredibly nasty DoTs, more one shot mechanics and in general 4/8 of the current dungeons are brutal compared to the typical difficulty. If that wasn't enough they decided to do the key squish at the same time. Having all that stuff and making a M0 the same as walking into a +10 was never going to end well and blizzard should have known this because the only other time we've seen such a massive spike in difficulty like this was cata heroics. Anyone who remembers trying to tank or heal pre-nerf cata heroics with randoms still has PTSD from it. Entry level M+ is at a state now where A LOT of players simply aren't capable of doing it and all that does is make everyone elses experience even more stressful and annoying. Blizzard should have made this expansion easier to account for the difficulty spike from the key squish and then added difficulty where needed over time. I spent days this week trying to get through a 7 grim batol to finish off KSM and I just can't do it anymore. The amount of groups who wasted my time is insane. They need to nerf the shit out of the dungeons or make the scaling get exponentially stronger with higher keys but start out weak so the earlier keys aren't such a nightmare. I've had no middle ground this expansion. Out of every 10 runs 2 of them were absolute god tier flawless runs and the other 8 were god awful and usually didn't finish the dungeon.
Optionnal timer for above +10. Lifes like in delves. 15 for the group (3/ players in a game designe way) +1 life just before the final boss and it can go negative. Imagine killing 3/4 boss with 0 lifes but it's not over ! 2 deaths on the pacjs before the last boss (-2) then 3 players get to tge stone before the boss and gets the lives to get at +3 lifes and beat the boss. If you take it slow and safe you can safe the m+ but also fail it. And you get 1 loot from the pool of the donjon and not 20% to 30% chance of maybe get a loot right now. I don't why m+ should be done in under 7 min. You could have a activity for everyone 2h raid, 30 to 45 min donjon and 15 min delves
Mythic + is a race, not a game mode, it's a race mode. Probably the tank changes added a lot of fuel, because things made race mode more bearable, but now people just burn out fast, the difficulty curve is too exponential now.
I always loved m+ since day 1. Yet now, it’s the first time ever when I find myself so uninterested af. Yet alone the “rumours” about toxicity on Reddit scares me away, and I’m not a bad healer. But who wants to deal with this extra shit after a full time job, when you can just do 2 delves and get higher rewards without all the fuss. However I used to enjoy m+ because of the dungeons and challenges, I hate the dungeon pool and the challenges sometimes feel like hell - and yes, I pug my keys but still. I’m not quite happy with the delve system, as m+ could give me more fun, so I’m praying for something better for next season.
If you're a decent player you won't see any of that toxicity until you get to 12s. Stop listening to the forums and reddit, it's where the actual toxic players go to whine. The majority of people screaming about toxicity are the toxic ones, usually dps doing less than tank dmg, not using kicks and ccs and blaming the healer. I'm 2700 and I've only put 5 people on ignore for being toxic this season.
The problem with what you’re saying is that we didn’t pay 1/3 of an expansion cost. We paid full price, so we shouldn’t be getting 1/3 of an expansion in TWW. Personally my biggest issue with TWW is how unnecessarily inconsistent or convoluted so much of the game is. Then the story feels way too short. Hallowfall story should have been twice if not three times longer than it was. Felt like we left too soon after getting there. The transition from ringing deeps to hallowfall was nonexistent, story wise. And beyond that so much of the game feels incomplete or unrealized, like delves which are great but lack the depth they need. And everything feels micromanaged. I wish I had more room to play how I want, especially in terms of renown progress.
2524 io healer here. I have had no issues with m+ this expansion and have loved it more in the TWW than any other season. Also, I have witnessed virtually zero toxicity. The only toxicity I have seen, if you can call it that, is someone insta leaving after a death or wipe. Then usually at least one other person will apologize for the key. The biggest issue I see the persecution fetish afflicting much of the wow playerbase. The level outrage over the smallest or even nonexistent issues is exhausting.
As any other game most of those problem come in from the worst players. Im pushibg 12s and everyone is decent and preety chill, we wipe we all know its over and we jusyt say ggs and leave. Its how it is, lower level players mess a lot more and get pissed of much easyer. Bricking keys is a big part of learning them.
I'm guildless now cuz my work schedule is all over the place and pugging mythic plus sucks. For the life of me I can't get in to a key higher than 3 at 617 gear level. I like the game but I played literally almost every week since slands so I'm just bored. I'm not gonna get heroic level trinkets from mythic probably until the end of the patch. Mythic crests should be dropping from 6 or 7.
Got to admit i tapped out earlier. A 4 month long weekend event, a reskin tier set what only excites paladins joyless zerg dungeons, boring weekly events, battlepass repgrinds and terrible scaling in all content. Grave silent Guilds, political Trade and a Service chat like a text waterfall. Its not "WOW" anymore its "pfft" 😂
Regarding the new Delves, I think they are a great addition to the game. I have done many Delves on many characters. The loot is very generous based on the challenge levels of Delves. However, they did start to grow stale for me just a couple of months into the new expansion. I can't see myself continuing to do the SAME Delves for another four months left in Season 1. Furthermore, we will probably have to do the SAME Delves all over again in Season 2 and in Season 3 with maybe a few new Delves thrown in with the major content patches. I just can't do it, sorry Blizzard.
Dungeons are fine. The reason they are viewed are being too difficult now is there is more emphasis on DPS having responsibility (kicks, interrupts, using defensives properly). Community is toxic. Too many players adhere to the meta. I personally just want players with a good score regardless of spec. The most desirable roles (tank and healer) require too much knowledge/effort/stress to be proficient at higher keys (+8 and higher). The changes in affixes have been great BUT the increased punishment is not. Blizzard has to shake the idea that there needs to be a punishment attached to dying on a M+ run. The death is the punishment (running back, rebuffing, etc). The M+ system is an infinitely scaling system, so why have any limiting punishments at all? I've also seen some comparison to Delves but there is 1 major issue with them. Any heroic gear you get from Delves (from a map or your vault) you need Gilded Crests to fully upgrade that gear, so you have to do M+8 or be able to farm the last 2 bosses of Heroic NP.
If M+ was the ONLY thing that mattered for progression? People would be humping it. Mostly because people can't understand that "content design" and "content reward" are two totally different things. You can give them content design that's literally dogs--t. But if they get reward that lets them lord it over others, "it was worth it" and they will think getting humiliated was the price to pay as a badge of honor. The _minute_ you get equal reward or similar somewhere else with less backpain? "... guys, I think what we were doing before was actually dumb" This isn't new. WoW actually got popular this exact same way in 2004. They made an MMO without the garbage crap others had (like punishing you on death by losing levels and gear) and people loved it, *SO* much, they switched to WoW instead.
M+ is very good balance wise, i got to gilded crests when finished with runes. Also i dont think casuals should be able to farm mythic track gear, it shouldn't be easy to time 10s. Also there are more players ib all dragonflight doing m+. Twitter is cancer
M+ feels overly punishing this season. Small mistakes by uncoordinated groups is highly likely to deplete a key. Bosses and trash have too many mechanics in general. The changes to interrupts,stuns and stops, feels horrible. Especially in pugs. The squish felt fine last season of DF. Healing and tanking are unusually stressful especially when mechanics aren’t handled well by DPS.
Key depletion has always been a problem and shouldn't exist. The required coordination is now an issue, especially with the changes to interrupting with cc and how much more you have to interrupt because the vast majority of groups are pugs which are not coordinated and that isn't going to change, and whether the 500000 io youtube comments like it or not, blizzard has to adapt to that.
Twitter isn't representative of the actual state of m+. The main issue with m+ is that most of the people who play wow are terrible at the game. The actual dungeons, systems and game loop are fine.
Personally think there is a class design vs encounter design arms race that is getting completely out of control. Every class doesn't need multiple forms of CC or defensive cds give everyone 1 and a couple classes a 2nd for flavor. Then we could have encounter design that doesn't require you spinning a dozen plates at once. Really lame when I can pretty easily 2 chest 9s and 10s with my friends but struggle to time anything over a 6 in average pugs. Every pull just about requires so much focus and every time you miss something that in the past would be fairly minor it now isn't so it snowballs into a major problem. At least this is my experience this expansion. Also city of threat is possibly the worse dungeon every designed. Maybe cool to do it once but for repeatable content it is horrible.
I like the delvs but ya they be boring but i have to say one thing, i wish we had more interaction with the environment in the game for example i love fugnal folly over every delve for one reason the spores while a pain when not used correctly can be used aggressively to help dps i love the novelty of that i realy wish we had more of that in dungeons and content to use our environment not just our big chungus dps to slam over everything.
To toxic, even in time walking these days, enough to put you off dealing with people in them, serious problem with the community. The real worlds shyte so the last thing i can be bothered with is the nastiness in pixel dungeons and raids
Nothing. M+ is the best it's ever been. The whiners are either loot goblins, io goblins, unskilled players, or people who don't even play retail and quit in SL... none of which belong in M+. It's for mastery-driven players, not reward-driven players. That's why there's no reward past 10s, and anyone can do a +10, it's really not that hard if you can do a decent rotation, stay out of poop, and use defensives when needed. That's all you need. Io goblins try to pug TGP levels of content without comms and then they complain it's too hard, and they refuse to push their own keys because it's not the one 14 they want to do, then complain about queuing for hours without playing; that's just stupidity. Loot goblins want to be spoon-fed myth track gear without putting in any effort; that's entitlement. Unskilled players are trying to push the hardest content in the game and they're not ready. They don't realise a +8(old +18) is heroic raid level of difficulty. People with static groups are having a blast in the best season ever.
Io driven players rarelly encounter the problems the lower ppl complain about. Pll rarely talk once a key starts in anything above a 10. Im doing 10s since week 1 and have yet to see all those toxic players. I have encountered 1 toxic monk healer, and thats it, i still remenber the guy because was so unusual.
The biggest issue with M+ is the same as it always has been: they're spammable for gear. There's absolutely no excuse that people can grind them infinitely for gear when every other source of comparable gear has a weekly lockout. Due to the infinite grind, people get bored of them very quickly. That would also open up the path to removing the timer. One run per dungeon per week, with completion as the only goal - the same as raids. They could still be run after that but gear would not drop. Add in a mechanic to upgrade a drop from a lower dungeon to the level a higher might drop if you rerun it that week (Get an item from a +3 and it upgrades if you run the same dungeon at +8 later in the same week).
It feels so weird being a wow veteran and feel like fucking noob in retail. I stopped playing retail in SL s1 and went to play classic. Then I came back DF last patch and holy fuck the game felt like shit, professions and gearing were nightmare. My friend give me a spreadsheet how to gear up and upgrage the shit like wtf what happeded to go to raid /m+ kill shit and get best loot and be done? Long story short, back to classic (cata) where I feel more home than in retail nowdays, sometimes less is more. Same goes with M+ i do not like that there is dungeon from older expansion in mix because that is really confusing as returning and new player like why the fuck am i fighting against dragons from cata ? I understand the variety point of it but just like i said earlier less is more.
If you dont participate in M+, then dont make a video with your opinion. Your opinion doesnt matter if you arent part of the M+ community. You know nothing and therefore dont deserve to speak on it.
@TheAccolonn fun conversation? You're delusional. Common sense says dont speak on something you know nothing about. You think pvp'ers or raiders want to hear M+ community weighing in on their content that we don't participate in? You just wanted some click bait you grifter
@TheAccolonn Fun? I must've missed the fun bit of your video. Common sense says, don't talk on subject you know nothing about. If I was a pvp'er or raider, and you only did M+, I wouldn't listen to your opinion either. You're just a click bait grifter.
Im just not feeling it. Don't know why, but since i unsub in May 2023 for a break, I've not had that excitement and anticipation for New xpac or patches.
I disagree about the point regarding the Worldsoul Saga, you are right about how it was presented to us, but because we pay for them separateIy, I still consider TWW, Midnight and The Last Titan as separate expansions.
It became stingy with loot. Myth track is basically unobtainable for casual pugs, pugging in above +7 is torture because of Challengers Peril and the constant that is players trying to avoid Blizzard's punishments, they simply leave because of the affix. The dungeons from TWW are simply bad and unenjoyable(S2 of TWW will be worse, Cinderbrew and Darkflame Cleft are ass)
I was pugging completion 10s on week 2 at 600 ilevel without issue. Took 90 minutes per key, but got myth gear. Definitely not unobtainable. People are just lazy.
@@hugofreitas6799 You're basically a unicorn, how is this a response to my comment? My point was very precise, they needlessly made the grind harder by implementing a brick wall around +6, to +8. Where you're in +6 you'll get the same loot you already have, in +7 pugs have a very low success rate and most keys do not complete, and in +8 you are competing with iLvl 624-630 people who are farming their Gilded Crests. Each +1 to the key has a steeper difficulty curve increase than previous seasons because of the squish(blizzard forgot they turned lower M+ into heroics). All these changes seem to have been made deliberately to subvert the track gearing and maintain some prestige for myth track gear. This is simply a wrong way of looking at it and it will show up in their numbers. Season 2 and 3 of Dragonflight were the most popular M+ seasons in a long time because myth track was in todays +6, and the crests to upgrade them were not placed too high. This is not Blizzard's first M+ season and it won't be their last, but it will most definitely be their least popular season in the World Soul Sage.
@@VDHmain The players have always been lazy, the players have always been toxic, it's a constant. So why is the current season so bad. Well it is because Blizzard changed the system deliberately from where it was popular, to where it is no longer popular. It is cool that you were able to suffer hell, but it is strange that you argue against people who do not want that same suffering. S2 and S3 of Dragonflight were popular for a reason, gear should obtainable for casuals, it should not be exclusive for the unemployed.
Simple Answers:
1. Tanking and Healing is Unforgiving and Underappreciated
2. Tanking revolves around timing Defensives, or you get one shot.
3. Healing is toxic, un-fun, and incredibly stressful. Unless you're playing a Class with Poison/Curse Removal *cough cough* Shamans....
4. DoT/Rot Damage is INCREDIBLY too high and is mostly unavoidable and overlaps often with heavy damage -- Which ties directly into points 1-3.
This leads to a VERY toxic Playerbase, because they become very selective on their Comps. Because Damage is unforgiving which leads to Deaths being unforgiving, which leads to the Playerbase becoming unforgiving.
And everything you said could be remedied by getting good.
@@veppy4952 I am "Good" -- M+ is not fun. Stress =/= Fun.
@@veppy4952Everything wrong with the Wow community mentality in a single post. Well done.
@veppy4952 let me guess, you have a 6000 io score and a 639 ilvl on 13 different characters right?
Also, the quantity of rewards are just straight up bad compared to the other activities in game. Banging your head against the wall for hours to have potentially nothing drop is ass.
What's wrong with m+? I spend and hour in dung finder to find a key or build my own team. We get inside. Some people die 5 times for any given reason. It's already too much because of new dying penalty. Key's done. Go next. Spend another hour in the queues....
Im a mid level tank at 2700. Everything in keys is fine, dragonflight was just so easy at the end that everyone is using that as their marker for how a key level should feel. 10s are extremely doable in all delve and normal gear.
The big shift is that it punishes you alot more if you fail a mechanic. 1 person has 90% of kicks and cc? Well youre gonna fail that at any level unless everyone is overgeared out the ass. Full heroic dungeon gear is enough to do alot of mythic raid (granted you take 5 seconds to learn your bis stats)
Im not a shill for blizzard, i rail hard against alot of things they dorait right now is solid and keys are fantastic.
1. Errors while doing m+ only burden tanks and healers.
Instead of "enemies do more damage" and "this spell will eat 60% of your hp if not interrupted" make "u get a debuff that makes u do 10% less dps next 6 seconds, and it can stack".
2. Upgrading items is a nightmare. Never-ending grind. The math behind it just doesn't work. There is no guaranteed reward.
3. Affixes that contradict combat mechanics. For example, don't stand in the fire, but catch the orbs that are in the fire.
4. Bugs. Overal very low quality control (I'm looking at you dawnbreaker)
And the cherry on the cake is the elitism and gatekeeping of wow players. "Because the game should be hard. "Just learn to play better lol".
Blizzard feeds on this. The harder dungeons ,raids are, and the bigger the fomo is, the more boosts will be sold. People selling boosts buy tokens to have game time and new mounts from the item shop, and others buy tokens to have gold and buy boost.
I always find funny how the strongest opinions come from people who don't even play the game. The current iteration of M+ is awesome ...
I liked M+ back in Legion. High Mountain, Vault of Wardens, and The Naglfar. Approachable mechanics, linear in design. Now you have multiple routes and depth where many tanks can get lost and not be optimized enough, pull too much / little and amplifies the toxic players.
What I'd love to see for M+ in the future is:
* Gear rewards appropriate to the difficulty of keys.
* A return of challenge mode class/hero talent specific cosmetic ensambles and matching weapons as a reward for completing a set of keys.
Challenge mode can work but not as a replacement.
@denniswolf8685 Just the class sets not the actual system.
@sioc7478 oh yeah then I absolutely agree
The timer. The timer is the only thing wrong with m+. You take that out and the fear of key depletions and it changes everything.
Nah timer is fine. Just don't downgrade my key when we fail it, keep it at same level.
@@ericv738 So what's the point of the timer? If keys started at a 1 and went up by 1 when completed but never depleted, that would be great.
You think that people won't rush if they remove the timers ?
As a Healer (Non-Shaman) --- If they reduce the damage that DoT/Rot is doing, everything will change. 1mil damage ticks on all 5-party members is INCREDIBLY stressful. Its unavoidable, and often overlaps with other damage. It F'n blows to heal right now unless you have Poison/Curse removal.
Very shortsighted.
Problem 1: without the timer, there is absolutely no stakes. Anyone can do a +14 if they have 3 hours, and anyone can do a 16 if they have infinite time.
Problem 2: no timer would encourage a hard switch into an MDI-style where speedrunning is key, since the leaderboard would be based on fastest runs. You don't do high keys for loot, you do it to climb the ladder. Mastery-driven players wouldn't mind, but the average reward-driven player would fuc*ing hate it. Because strategies trickle down, you'd end up doing an insane first pull, wiping, restarting over and over until you get it right. I guess it would be a good way to get the loot goblins out of M+.
The main problem is it just doesn't feel rewarding enough now and delves are far too good for how little effort they take. The other problem is blizz making too many changes all at once. They made tanks less self sufficient, dungeons have much more consistent burst damage or incredibly nasty DoTs, more one shot mechanics and in general 4/8 of the current dungeons are brutal compared to the typical difficulty. If that wasn't enough they decided to do the key squish at the same time. Having all that stuff and making a M0 the same as walking into a +10 was never going to end well and blizzard should have known this because the only other time we've seen such a massive spike in difficulty like this was cata heroics. Anyone who remembers trying to tank or heal pre-nerf cata heroics with randoms still has PTSD from it.
Entry level M+ is at a state now where A LOT of players simply aren't capable of doing it and all that does is make everyone elses experience even more stressful and annoying. Blizzard should have made this expansion easier to account for the difficulty spike from the key squish and then added difficulty where needed over time.
I spent days this week trying to get through a 7 grim batol to finish off KSM and I just can't do it anymore. The amount of groups who wasted my time is insane. They need to nerf the shit out of the dungeons or make the scaling get exponentially stronger with higher keys but start out weak so the earlier keys aren't such a nightmare. I've had no middle ground this expansion. Out of every 10 runs 2 of them were absolute god tier flawless runs and the other 8 were god awful and usually didn't finish the dungeon.
Optionnal timer for above +10.
Lifes like in delves. 15 for the group (3/ players in a game designe way) +1 life just before the final boss and it can go negative. Imagine killing 3/4 boss with 0 lifes but it's not over ! 2 deaths on the pacjs before the last boss (-2) then 3 players get to tge stone before the boss and gets the lives to get at +3 lifes and beat the boss. If you take it slow and safe you can safe the m+ but also fail it. And you get 1 loot from the pool of the donjon and not 20% to 30% chance of maybe get a loot right now.
I don't why m+ should be done in under 7 min. You could have a activity for everyone 2h raid, 30 to 45 min donjon and 15 min delves
Mythic + is a race, not a game mode, it's a race mode.
Probably the tank changes added a lot of fuel, because things made race mode more bearable, but now people just burn out fast, the difficulty curve is too exponential now.
I always loved m+ since day 1.
Yet now, it’s the first time ever when I find myself so uninterested af. Yet alone the “rumours” about toxicity on Reddit scares me away, and I’m not a bad healer. But who wants to deal with this extra shit after a full time job, when you can just do 2 delves and get higher rewards without all the fuss.
However I used to enjoy m+ because of the dungeons and challenges, I hate the dungeon pool and the challenges sometimes feel like hell - and yes, I pug my keys but still.
I’m not quite happy with the delve system, as m+ could give me more fun, so I’m praying for something better for next season.
If you're a decent player you won't see any of that toxicity until you get to 12s. Stop listening to the forums and reddit, it's where the actual toxic players go to whine. The majority of people screaming about toxicity are the toxic ones, usually dps doing less than tank dmg, not using kicks and ccs and blaming the healer. I'm 2700 and I've only put 5 people on ignore for being toxic this season.
@@VDHmain Yeah, I know you’re right.
the troll things we meet in, does anyone know if they are a remnant of the same trolls, there got turned into night elfs???
The problem with m+ is difficulty is not rewarded accordingly. Delves are super easy and reward better gear.
The problem with what you’re saying is that we didn’t pay 1/3 of an expansion cost. We paid full price, so we shouldn’t be getting 1/3 of an expansion in TWW.
Personally my biggest issue with TWW is how unnecessarily inconsistent or convoluted so much of the game is. Then the story feels way too short. Hallowfall story should have been twice if not three times longer than it was. Felt like we left too soon after getting there. The transition from ringing deeps to hallowfall was nonexistent, story wise. And beyond that so much of the game feels incomplete or unrealized, like delves which are great but lack the depth they need.
And everything feels micromanaged. I wish I had more room to play how I want, especially in terms of renown progress.
2524 io healer here. I have had no issues with m+ this expansion and have loved it more in the TWW than any other season. Also, I have witnessed virtually zero toxicity. The only toxicity I have seen, if you can call it that, is someone insta leaving after a death or wipe. Then usually at least one other person will apologize for the key. The biggest issue I see the persecution fetish afflicting much of the wow playerbase. The level outrage over the smallest or even nonexistent issues is exhausting.
As any other game most of those problem come in from the worst players. Im pushibg 12s and everyone is decent and preety chill, we wipe we all know its over and we jusyt say ggs and leave. Its how it is, lower level players mess a lot more and get pissed of much easyer. Bricking keys is a big part of learning them.
I'm guildless now cuz my work schedule is all over the place and pugging mythic plus sucks. For the life of me I can't get in to a key higher than 3 at 617 gear level. I like the game but I played literally almost every week since slands so I'm just bored. I'm not gonna get heroic level trinkets from mythic probably until the end of the patch. Mythic crests should be dropping from 6 or 7.
Got to admit i tapped out earlier. A 4 month long weekend event, a reskin tier set what only excites paladins joyless zerg dungeons, boring weekly events, battlepass repgrinds and terrible scaling in all content. Grave silent Guilds, political Trade and a Service chat like a text waterfall.
Its not "WOW" anymore its "pfft" 😂
Regarding the new Delves, I think they are a great addition to the game. I have done many Delves on many characters. The loot is very generous based on the challenge levels of Delves. However, they did start to grow stale for me just a couple of months into the new expansion. I can't see myself continuing to do the SAME Delves for another four months left in Season 1. Furthermore, we will probably have to do the SAME Delves all over again in Season 2 and in Season 3 with maybe a few new Delves thrown in with the major content patches. I just can't do it, sorry Blizzard.
Dungeons are fine. The reason they are viewed are being too difficult now is there is more emphasis on DPS having responsibility (kicks, interrupts, using defensives properly). Community is toxic. Too many players adhere to the meta. I personally just want players with a good score regardless of spec. The most desirable roles (tank and healer) require too much knowledge/effort/stress to be proficient at higher keys (+8 and higher). The changes in affixes have been great BUT the increased punishment is not. Blizzard has to shake the idea that there needs to be a punishment attached to dying on a M+ run. The death is the punishment (running back, rebuffing, etc). The M+ system is an infinitely scaling system, so why have any limiting punishments at all? I've also seen some comparison to Delves but there is 1 major issue with them. Any heroic gear you get from Delves (from a map or your vault) you need Gilded Crests to fully upgrade that gear, so you have to do M+8 or be able to farm the last 2 bosses of Heroic NP.
If M+ was the ONLY thing that mattered for progression?
People would be humping it. Mostly because people can't understand that "content design" and "content reward" are two totally different things.
You can give them content design that's literally dogs--t. But if they get reward that lets them lord it over others, "it was worth it" and they will think getting humiliated was the price to pay as a badge of honor.
The _minute_ you get equal reward or similar somewhere else with less backpain?
"... guys, I think what we were doing before was actually dumb"
This isn't new.
WoW actually got popular this exact same way in 2004.
They made an MMO without the garbage crap others had (like punishing you on death by losing levels and gear) and people loved it, *SO* much, they switched to WoW instead.
M+ is very good balance wise, i got to gilded crests when finished with runes. Also i dont think casuals should be able to farm mythic track gear, it shouldn't be easy to time 10s. Also there are more players ib all dragonflight doing m+. Twitter is cancer
M+ feels overly punishing this season. Small mistakes by uncoordinated groups is highly likely to deplete a key.
Bosses and trash have too many mechanics in general.
The changes to interrupts,stuns and stops, feels horrible. Especially in pugs.
The squish felt fine last season of DF.
Healing and tanking are unusually stressful especially when mechanics aren’t handled well by DPS.
Key depletion has always been a problem and shouldn't exist. The required coordination is now an issue, especially with the changes to interrupting with cc and how much more you have to interrupt because the vast majority of groups are pugs which are not coordinated and that isn't going to change, and whether the 500000 io youtube comments like it or not, blizzard has to adapt to that.
The honeymoon phase finally ending?
balancing/tuning is really bad this season, also the amount of kicks required is crazy
Twitter isn't representative of the actual state of m+. The main issue with m+ is that most of the people who play wow are terrible at the game.
The actual dungeons, systems and game loop are fine.
Personally think there is a class design vs encounter design arms race that is getting completely out of control. Every class doesn't need multiple forms of CC or defensive cds give everyone 1 and a couple classes a 2nd for flavor. Then we could have encounter design that doesn't require you spinning a dozen plates at once.
Really lame when I can pretty easily 2 chest 9s and 10s with my friends but struggle to time anything over a 6 in average pugs. Every pull just about requires so much focus and every time you miss something that in the past would be fairly minor it now isn't so it snowballs into a major problem. At least this is my experience this expansion.
Also city of threat is possibly the worse dungeon every designed. Maybe cool to do it once but for repeatable content it is horrible.
I like the delvs but ya they be boring but i have to say one thing, i wish we had more interaction with the environment in the game for example i love fugnal folly over every delve for one reason the spores while a pain when not used correctly can be used aggressively to help dps i love the novelty of that i realy wish we had more of that in dungeons and content to use our environment not just our big chungus dps to slam over everything.
To toxic, even in time walking these days, enough to put you off dealing with people in them, serious problem with the community. The real worlds shyte so the last thing i can be bothered with is the nastiness in pixel dungeons and raids
Problem is most players are just bad at this game and want endgame gear and high io before they learn the game.
oops i liked it now it has 70 likes
Nothing. M+ is the best it's ever been. The whiners are either loot goblins, io goblins, unskilled players, or people who don't even play retail and quit in SL... none of which belong in M+. It's for mastery-driven players, not reward-driven players. That's why there's no reward past 10s, and anyone can do a +10, it's really not that hard if you can do a decent rotation, stay out of poop, and use defensives when needed. That's all you need.
Io goblins try to pug TGP levels of content without comms and then they complain it's too hard, and they refuse to push their own keys because it's not the one 14 they want to do, then complain about queuing for hours without playing; that's just stupidity.
Loot goblins want to be spoon-fed myth track gear without putting in any effort; that's entitlement.
Unskilled players are trying to push the hardest content in the game and they're not ready. They don't realise a +8(old +18) is heroic raid level of difficulty.
People with static groups are having a blast in the best season ever.
Io driven players rarelly encounter the problems the lower ppl complain about. Pll rarely talk once a key starts in anything above a 10. Im doing 10s since week 1 and have yet to see all those toxic players. I have encountered 1 toxic monk healer, and thats it, i still remenber the guy because was so unusual.
It's never been good content nor will it ever be. Mystery solved...
The biggest issue with M+ is the same as it always has been: they're spammable for gear. There's absolutely no excuse that people can grind them infinitely for gear when every other source of comparable gear has a weekly lockout. Due to the infinite grind, people get bored of them very quickly.
That would also open up the path to removing the timer. One run per dungeon per week, with completion as the only goal - the same as raids. They could still be run after that but gear would not drop. Add in a mechanic to upgrade a drop from a lower dungeon to the level a higher might drop if you rerun it that week (Get an item from a +3 and it upgrades if you run the same dungeon at +8 later in the same week).
No, that would mean people just wont run dungeons anymore, so if you come later, good luck finding a party!
@@iulianhodorog9979 Arguably, Raids should rather have no lockout over Dungeons getting a lockout.
It feels so weird being a wow veteran and feel like fucking noob in retail. I stopped playing retail in SL s1 and went to play classic. Then I came back DF last patch and holy fuck the game felt like shit, professions and gearing were nightmare. My friend give me a spreadsheet how to gear up and upgrage the shit like wtf what happeded to go to raid /m+ kill shit and get best loot and be done? Long story short, back to classic (cata) where I feel more home than in retail nowdays, sometimes less is more. Same goes with M+ i do not like that there is dungeon from older expansion in mix because that is really confusing as returning and new player like why the fuck am i fighting against dragons from cata ? I understand the variety point of it but just like i said earlier less is more.
If you dont participate in M+, then dont make a video with your opinion. Your opinion doesnt matter if you arent part of the M+ community. You know nothing and therefore dont deserve to speak on it.
@@evananthony4506 oof something is a tad sensitive over a fun conversation about discourse in the wow community. Chill out bro, it's just fun.
@TheAccolonn fun conversation? You're delusional. Common sense says dont speak on something you know nothing about. You think pvp'ers or raiders want to hear M+ community weighing in on their content that we don't participate in? You just wanted some click bait you grifter
@TheAccolonn Fun? I must've missed the fun bit of your video. Common sense says, don't talk on subject you know nothing about. If I was a pvp'er or raider, and you only did M+, I wouldn't listen to your opinion either. You're just a click bait grifter.
Ah I get to see an Accolonn Video Fresh out of the Oven :) Poggers
Im just not feeling it. Don't know why, but since i unsub in May 2023 for a break, I've not had that excitement and anticipation for New xpac or patches.
I disagree about the point regarding the Worldsoul Saga, you are right about how it was presented to us, but because we pay for them separateIy, I still consider TWW, Midnight and The Last Titan as separate expansions.
It became stingy with loot. Myth track is basically unobtainable for casual pugs, pugging in above +7 is torture because of Challengers Peril and the constant that is players trying to avoid Blizzard's punishments, they simply leave because of the affix. The dungeons from TWW are simply bad and unenjoyable(S2 of TWW will be worse, Cinderbrew and Darkflame Cleft are ass)
I was pugging completion 10s on week 2 at 600 ilevel without issue. Took 90 minutes per key, but got myth gear. Definitely not unobtainable. People are just lazy.
I puged 10s week 1, had my vault filled with 10s ever since. All on pugs. Im 2733 ilv all on pugs and i play a dps.
2733 io*
@@hugofreitas6799 You're basically a unicorn, how is this a response to my comment? My point was very precise, they needlessly made the grind harder by implementing a brick wall around +6, to +8. Where you're in +6 you'll get the same loot you already have, in +7 pugs have a very low success rate and most keys do not complete, and in +8 you are competing with iLvl 624-630 people who are farming their Gilded Crests. Each +1 to the key has a steeper difficulty curve increase than previous seasons because of the squish(blizzard forgot they turned lower M+ into heroics). All these changes seem to have been made deliberately to subvert the track gearing and maintain some prestige for myth track gear. This is simply a wrong way of looking at it and it will show up in their numbers. Season 2 and 3 of Dragonflight were the most popular M+ seasons in a long time because myth track was in todays +6, and the crests to upgrade them were not placed too high. This is not Blizzard's first M+ season and it won't be their last, but it will most definitely be their least popular season in the World Soul Sage.
@@VDHmain The players have always been lazy, the players have always been toxic, it's a constant. So why is the current season so bad. Well it is because Blizzard changed the system deliberately from where it was popular, to where it is no longer popular. It is cool that you were able to suffer hell, but it is strange that you argue against people who do not want that same suffering. S2 and S3 of Dragonflight were popular for a reason, gear should obtainable for casuals, it should not be exclusive for the unemployed.