I just wanted you to know I have been trying to fix my Jeep liberty for three years no finally convinced my mechanic to try putting washers on the passenger side it fixed my Jeep !! You are awesome and wanted to tell you thank you very much !!
Hey, Mark! I wanted to stop by and say THANK YOU! I have a 2004 Dodge Dakota with a 3.7 6 Cylinder. I bought the truck new and I've taken great care of it. Last year around 135,000 miles it started throwing the #2 and #4 exhaust side rocker arms. The truck would sit over night, and throw a rocker arm in the morning when I tried starting it. My mechanic replaced the rocker arms and lash adjusters (lifters) to no avail. I sent him this video and he shimmed it as suggested. 2 months running strong!
You should add to the title FIX RESOLVED WITH WASHERS ! I have a hard time finding your video with so many on this issue. Yours has the best resolution and confirmed results!
Since making this video over 6 years ago, I've had multiple 4.7 and 3.7 engines apart. I made it a point to measure the depth of the lifter bore as I discovered, some are machined deeper than others. In the case of the ones where the bores were machined deeper, the engines suffered from lifter noise when first started (cold). I gave every mis-machined head the 'washer treatment' you see in this video--- and guess what--- that's right, the noisy lifter problem is forever eliminated. One customer, with a Dodge Durango had purchased the truck new and had it back to the dealer several times, complaining about noisy lifters, and all they did was kick it down the road. I solved the problem with the washer trick
Mark Osborne What is the depth of the bore to know when washers are needed? Can I just add thinner washers in all 16 bores just to save me from having to pull valve covers off in the future?
Great to here! I just bought a 2005 Ram 1500 3.7 with only 120k from auction. Engine is locked up. Will remove the valve covers this week to check and see if this is the problem. Hopefully it's just this rocker problem.
Mark,thank you for the fix,it is working as it should ,I have to make 1 correction about the size of the lock washer,you say 7/16 (by mistake obviously) 7/16 is to large to fit in the hole and anyway to thick for what we need,the correct size is 5/16 (on the 3.7anyway,I guess it is the same for the 4.7) and the ones i used were .083" thick wich is perfect. my # 2and #4 came out one after the other in less than 2 months so i changed them all (12) for brand new ones,5 1/2 months later they both got out again almost silmultaniously,so I did the shim job , 7 months ago and my engine has never runned so smoothly before with no recurring event yet...thanks Mark
ps I gave the washer trick to my local mechanic who had seen this problem often on those engines 'cause he was working on one when I stopped there,he had never heard of that and called me a few days later to thank me and wondering why he had not see that anywhere before,telling me he has been seeing that trouble for at least the last 15 years but had never found a permanent solution,after testing he concluded that this was indeed the right fix.
I wish I would have found this channel/you years ago! I am a mechanic of 22 years (mostly on log trucks and rock trucks), but watching your videos has given me so much knowledge and I sight into my 4.7! Thank you for all your efforts and for recording your work and sharing it! Also, I was interested to know if the rocker arm stayed on and if it fixed or atleast helped with the ticking. I uave had my truck since 2003 and I have 210k on the engine. This last year I uave had problem after problem but I belive all the issues stem from my #4 rocker getting kicked off, and I belive that my timing chains and timming tensioner are all maxed out and no longer applying tension. Anyways....thank you for your work buddy!
@@nativeguybubba thank you for your kind words ! Yes, in the case of my customer's car, it fixed it forever. But I'm pretty sure you just have a sticky lash adjuster which provided just enough valve train lash -it tossed a rocker. Good job on the 210K. I like these engines a lot, but as you correctly point out, the timing chains and guides have seen their better day. I just had one apart about a month ago.
@@mark_osborne I'm so glad I found this clip, 11 years after you posted it it's still helping people. Would it harm popping washers underneath all off the lash adjusters in your opinion just as a precaution?
@@mr.never.wrong. Thank you for the kind words, I also find it amazing how many people watch this video and the outpouring of thanks. So, if you have a head that has been machined too deep (the lifter hole), it will very likely be machined too deep on every hole. That has been my experience. So yes, I think you'd be safe dropping a washer in every hole.
Great idea Mark. I read somewhere that the feed hole under the lifter gets dirty and doesn't allow enough oil flow/pressure to come up immediately after start up and it causes the rockers to fall. It is a great theory. But your idea rocks. Sharing this with my friends.
I have been seafoaming my 2000 grand cherokee at every other oilchange since day one. 240,000 miles later and I have NEVER had this issue. I also use a motor flush once a year and add lucas oil stabilizer at every oil change. Seems to be working very well.
Hi Mark - Grateful for you sharing this on TH-cam ! My 2004 Cherokee 4.7 (116k miles, 2nd owner) has spit out the #1 intake rocker, and the lifter was stuck, apparently the check ball problem. The engine internals appear very clean, as I've been using synthetic oil and Seafoam the last 2 oil changes. I don't know the Jeep's history, bought it at 102k miles about 4 years back and have had no trouble since, other than this clattering starting about 1k miles ago when cold engine start, and then the rocker spitting out last week.Anyway, I've ordered a new set of lifters, and plan to follow your advice to a tee, plus I have read elsewhere to spin the motor over with the lifter out and ensure there is oil "squirting" into the lifter hole thus indicating proper lubrication. I will be coming back and reporting progress as it occurs... again, THANKS!!!
I took apart the "offending" lifter (valve lash adjuster) and it was incredibly nasty and gummed up inside. Apparently a couple of Seafoam treatments doesn't cure all ills. I'm considering placing washer "spacers" (approximately .075-.080" total thickness) under the lifter as recommended by mugiver411 on his video in case I have a dropped seat on this intake valve. New set of lifters not here yet, so on hold for now.
OK, first and foremost, I previously mis-identified which lifter was bad, it was actually the No.1 cylinder exhaust valve rocker that spit out, caused by a partially dropped seat I theorize.Moving on... the new lifters arrived, installed all new ones on driver's side of engine. I did put in two 3//16 flat washers (total spacer thickness is approximately .075") under the No.1 lifter. Before changing out lifters I checked all rockers with cam lobe opposite of rocker roller, and none of the rockers were loose, so I don't feel like another rocker is about to spit out (hopefully). Also cranked over engine while the No.1 exhaust valve lifter was out of its bore and oil at first didn't fill the "chamber" until the engine cranked for about 7-10 seconds, so either the oil supply hole was plugged up or this is typical for these engines after sitting for 5 days. Warmed it up thoroughly and then took it out and stomped on the gas pedal, took her up to 5k rpm's thru the gears and everything seems good... real good!!!
Removing the rocker arm involves rotating the engine until the cam lobe is pointing "up" away from the rocker arm (removing all tension), then taking a large screw driver and prying down on the valve spring using the underside of the camshaft as a pry point. Take your second hand and push on the rocker arm as you are prying down and it will slip right out. Installing the rocker arm is the reverse. Once you've done a couple... you won't believe how easy it is...
If this problem was on the intake side would it cause it to smoke a lot?, i poped my valve cover off and just seen the intake rocker just laying in the head, didn't want to go back on... I'm going to go to pull apart and take a rocker arm off of one and try it out, I don't recommend doing it , but I don't want to buy new ones and this is not the issue
a cylinder can pump a slight amount of oil when it's not firing but i highly doubt you'd notice it in the exhaust stream. let us know if it quits smoking when you get the rocker arm reinstalled
I have a 2003 Jeep liberty renegade 3.7 and was having trouble with number 6 exhaust. bought all new lifters and put them all in seemed fine. after setting over night went to start kept throwing that same rocker off. found this video and used the same washer Mark had used. after that it threw number 4 exhaust. so I said heck with it and shimmed them all and changed oil n filter. using mobile 1 5w20 and started it up cold not 1 tap or chatter of any kind. jeep has 133.574 miles bought used in 05 with only 15k miles have only ever used Mobile 1 synthetic oil. has a little sludge in it but overall very clean inside. mainly the sludge is around the damn oil filler connected to the head. will update in time on this but it works and my Jeep still runs like a champ doesn't miss a beat.
I hear no engine noise but have a really bad misfire on 2,4,6 changed everything I can think of . Cam and crank sensors fuel injector o rings o2 sensors coils are good . Can smell very rich gas from tail pipe . Almost sounds like you can hear air going into the intake every compression stroke . Do you think this is my problem?
@@mark_osborne okay will do ! Gonna do the compression test . If that checks out I’m gonna put the exhaust off a bit to see if the cats are clogged . If that doesn’t help then I’m going to take the valve cover off wish me luck 🥺
I just discovered my timing cover leak is running down the front inside of the engine into the oil pan. So Coolant in the oil only about a table spoon a week could add up and I bet water in a hydraulic lifter might stop if from performing properly? Yet it's odd that i have never once had a rocker pop off on the drivers side. They keep popping off the passenger side. Which I see is a known side with issues. One video he shows a bunch in a salvage yard #2 cylinder being the most common to have this issue.
Certainly coolant in the oil can make sludge and eventually find it's way into the lifters. That timing cover leak is common and not at all a bad job to repair.
I was informed and have seen this vehicle is supposed to only use 5w-30 Full Synthetic oil. Having same issue. Replace the lash adjusters 2x's same issue. Wondering if too thick of oil can cause this issue too. I have had this issue only passenger side mostly #8 and #2 cylinders. Wondering if I should put washers in them all to be safe. Curious too why a washer that you had to hammer flat? Assuming that's what you did. Can you make a video showing more exactly what you used washer wise. Thanks so much. Hope this fixes my vehicle. Had 4 mechanics and $1000 spent on it with no fix.
It's not your oil. I used a lock washer because it was .085 thick, which is the approximate thickness wanted, and it was small enough in diameter to fit into the hole. My bet would be, if you did this to # 2 and #8 your problem would likely go away. Let us know.
@@mark_osborne Thanks for the reply! Baught some washers but their. 05 thick is that enough?or should I keep looking? & would it hurt anything to put them under them all. Just don't wanna be taking it apart again.
@@livenfree .050 is certainly better than nothing assuming this is the problem. You could also have seats that have fallen, and the washer will mask that problem. The basic issue with the vehicle in my video (and other's that I've repaired using this strategy) is the lifter bores are machined too deep. There's no easy way for you to tell. So the washer trick is just a stab in the dark, albeit it will likely solve your issue one way or another. Because it has only happened to #2 and #8, to be safe, I'd only put washers on the effected rockers because we don't know if the other lifter bores are machined too deep or not. You could take a chance and put washers under all lifters on that bank, but just make sure the valves are not being held open or you'll have no compression on those cylinders. In other words, if you put washers under all, before putting the rocker cover back on, do a quick compression test.
@@mark_osborne thank you! First times it was #8 & #4 now it's #2 & don't know if it was exhaust or intake valve on those. Assuming u raise both intake & exhaust lifters on a cylinder that's had an issue? Another thing I've read on TH-cam comments is people solving this issue by flushing out the ports below each lash adjuster that get plugged. They said to turn the engine over with the adjuster out one at a time.
Great video, Thanks, i just fixed a Jeep 4.7 today with the number 8 cyl. My fist thought was that someone had floated the valves by over revving. I didn't find this video until I had already just put the rocker back on and it runs fine. If it happens again I will try the washer trick. Im going to change the oil and filter with a good flush first. Years ago I would put some trans fluid in to unstick a lazy lifter. Seems like they could come up with some kind of a keeper for the rockers on this design. Another guy told me that the heads warp over time and make the rockers fall out. Im not buying into that one.
hey I have a jeep 4.7 as well and I think I might be having the same problem. truck idles bad and makes a clattering noise. engine compression is lower than normal what should the problem be? any advice is helpful !
My 2006 4.7L Ram 1500 threw cyl 8. I put 2 thin washers. Worked for 5 minutes and threw it again. I'm going to add 1 more washer but my fear is a droooed valve seat
Great thanks, i took out all my lifters and they were all stuck, took them apart and cleaned them well, they felt new, installed them but have some lifter tick especially when the engine is cold.
Do you have a base measurement number, and the way you measured it to know what is to deep ? Or do you take them all off and measure them all and compare ? Thank You for your time..
I'm guessing.. stick a stick in the holes where the lifters go and make a mark on the stick at the top of each one. All 12 marks should be the same, relatively. If you have one or 2 or more or that are way outside the others than you can confirm inconsistent machining in those holes thus justifying giving them the washer there.
So the results over time are??? I just picked up a 4.7 Grand Cherokee thats tossing off the # 2 intake. This seems like a viable fix since the culprit is likely oil pressure / pump up related combined with carbon on the valve stem which can cause the valve to slow close or stick. Figure if i could get it running with the washer idea then run a TON of flush through the engine then swap it over to synthetic oil and use a good combustion chamber cleaner it might clear up without having r&r heads.
Did this fix the problem? I have an 04 Dakoda 4.7L and am having this problem on multiple cylinders. I have in the shop once a month. I know this is a common problem with the 3.7 and 4.7 motors but can't find a fix.
I have also had this problem im fixing right now. I have 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.7l. I have been looking around all over the place for what might be the cause of this. Most of what I have found is a build up of carbon on the valves. A good Seafoam treatment or a cabron cleaning treatment will help this. Hope I dont have to do this job again! Good Luck
WARNING: To those watching his "fix";The lock washer is a "split type" Yes, he flattened it out with a hammer. It remains a piece of non heat treated steel [of Asian sourcing more than likely.] Never intended for this, and not even having the correct surface finish. A backyard fix that could potentially do serious damage if the 'split' starts to lift and no longer remains flat. Contact a machinist about making some shims that would work better than washers, If this "theory" is correct.
when I don't know what I am talking about,I simply shut up! By the way this is NOT a theory,it is a tested and permanent fix that has prooven itself to work.
@@omdunor891 this is not a permanent or proven fix ,it is not a tsb on all data or the dealer, proper way is to take care of those valves and not let the engine overheat
Good video. My Dakota 3.7 started top end ticking on startup after an oil change. Goes away after a few minutes. Thinking this may be my issue. Any good way to check and see which is making the noise? I checked the plugs, and they all look about the same.
This is NOT your issue. If your problem only started after an oil change, I would definitely change your oil again and use a good filter. Not a Fram. The house brand oil filters at O'Rielly are excellent.
@@mark_osborne I was sure it was a drain down issue too from a bad filter, but I changed it and it didn't help. It doesn't tick right away, starts after 20 seconds or so, and lasts for about a minute. I use 30w, but the shop I got it changed at used 20w. (First change at a shop and this happened) It has a puralator filter from bi mart. It's the platinum filter with silicone anti drain back. It has 30w full synthetic in it now. Should I try again just in case? Started after an oil change, and goes away after a few minutes...I was sure it was a bad filter.
@@r1nger81 You're welcome. Based on what you're saying I'm starting to think you have a lifter who's internal check valve is faulty either from a speck of dirt that got past your filter, or some internal debris that had built up inside the lifter and finally broke loose. Thankfully they are inexpensive and not too awful bad to change !
Mark, I have a 2008 Chrysler Aspen 4.7, 200,000 miles and have the same problem!! The noise goes away when it has been running for a while. horrible ticking noise at startup and worse during cold weather. Where can I find and those washers? I am not a mechanic and would like to try this on my Aspen.
I would NOT just randomly put washers under your lifters in attempt to resolve your problem. At 200K, your engine could be ticking for many other reasons. The repair in this video is strictly for engines who 'toss' rockers and there are no other known problems.
Got a little bit of a tap, even at warm idle.....not worried about it though because the manual indicates this could happen and not to be concerned if it doesn't get louder as the rpms increase- which it doesnt. 199,000 miles (no rebuild) and it actually runs very well. Any cause for concern?
Hey mark, thank's for the video. I am having trouble with noisey lash adjusters myself. I was wondering if the problem is on the exhaust side only or should this trick be applied to all? I can't seem narrow it down to a single one and haven't had an issue with tossing rockers. I want to try this trick. Also i replaced all the lash adjusters about 15,000 miles ago and it's still noisey.
My experience has been that all lifter bores are machined too deep (not just exhaust or just intake), and it can apply to only one head on any particular engine, or both. So if you're going to try the shim trick, do them all. BTW, make sure after it sits for a bit you don't have any valves being held open before starting it up. It may have to sit overnight. Grab the rocker arm and make sure it's not under pressure, it should rock slightly and feel free once the lash adjuster has had a chance to collapse a bit to accommodate the new shim. Let us know how it works out !
hi I have a 2005 jeep Cherokee 4.7 v8 awd... now the problem I have is the engine makes a similar clattering sound and I'm not sure what it is but I did take it to a mechanic to check engine compression and from what I was told..too low and your valve is messed up. compression was at 95 psi and generally should be around 110 to 120 any ideas of what the problem is please help any info is helpful thank you!
I have a 2004 Jeep Liberty with a 3.7. I think I may have this problem. I hear a slight ticking in my lifters. First off I do tow a 20' Camper with the weight of 3,200#s loaded. I am using electric brakes, and a weight dist. hitch. The engine has 120k miles on it. They tell me I should retire it from towing. Jeep rated it for 5000#s Could towing have caused it to trow a rocker arm?
The problem is the valve seats on the head they come out of place and keep the valves from closing and the rockers come out of placeI just took my engine apart for the same reason and have to take the head to the machine shop to get them fix 350 for both head
Mark, I have yet to drop a lifter in my 3.7. But you can definatly hear they are loose. How smooth is ur motor running now? Still no problems? Thanks for the help man
Forest Roeder I have replaced a lash adjuster when one rocker arm fell off. You will find that the adjuster does wear down a bit over time on the bottom,
Did you hear the clatter in the lifters even though they were replaced? My 4.7 used to clatter badly. eventually, 4 intake rockers on 1 bank, and 1 intake rocker on the second bank fell off. I replaced all the rockers and still 1 intake rocker fell off. I swapped the lifter from the exhaust on the same cylinder. It hasn't fallen off, but still clatters, even when the engine is warm. Any ideas? Should I just try to shim it?
You could have a valve seat that has dropped a bit. No way to really tell without pulling the head. You could try adding the washer (like in this video) and see if it helps.
Thanks for the quick response. if the valve seat dropped, would I see lower compression in that cylinder? As a side note, I had a ton of clatter before replacing all the lifters. now I only have one that is still clicking. Makes me wonder if one of the replacement lifters is bad. If I choose to shim, can I just take out all the slack when its cold, or will it need more lift than that?
No, you would not see lower compression. When the seat drops (a tiny bit), nothing really changes except the lifter attempts to make up the clearance. If there is enough travel left in the lifter, you'd never even know a seat has fallen a bit. Once the lifter reaches it's maximum extended length, and there is additional clearance in the valve train, you could then hear a noise (clicking). The fact your problem was solved by changing lifters is a bit of a mystery unless your engine was very dirty internally, in which case the fresh lifters are now able to do their job do to the fact that their internal check valves are functioning correctly (because they are clean) . If your engine wasn't sludged up (dirty), I really can't explain why changing them made any difference as lifters basically never go bad except due to sludge causing the check valve to fail. If you know which rocker arm is making noise, you could try the washer trick under that lifter. Cold is fine. Hot is fine. There is no appreciable difference as the dimensions are so small that the coefficient of expansion of steel doesn't even come into play in this case. Furthermore, your goal is to place the lifter half way in it's travel. Study my video. If I did a good enough job explaining it, you should be able to get the just of it.
The lash adjusters should not be bleeding down excessively overnight. They may bleed a smidge. Since motor oil is 'not' hydraulic oil, it can sustain a new lifter, but not a lifter internally damaged, as yours' may be. The smart option would be to replace the hydraulic components, and use an oil stabilizer. 10w30 gets really thin after a while when hot. Preloading that lash adjuster with a washer could spell damage if thicker oil was used. This is a warning from planet G6780 345. Fornax system.
engine machinist told me if they overheat they tend to drop a valve seat briefly which causes the rocker to fall off. Gotta watch the temp. Said he has seen loose valve seats multiple times on 4.7s with ticking/thrown rockers.
Justin, I am aware of the problem with the seats coming out, and it may very well be the seats dropped slightly causing the excess clearance. BTW, the vehicle is still running fine some 3 years later and has never tossed another rocker. Thanks for your input
Mark Osborne mark, if the valve seats drop some, wouldn't the car show demonstrate poor idling.....ie valve not fully seated. I want to do what you have done.
I know this is a problem with the older 2005 era 3.7L . My Sister just bought a 2012 Jeep Liberty 3.7 with only 32K on it. Is this still a problem with the newer engines still? Also any thoughts on the future problems it may have. Right now it runs like a Swiss watch.
Robert Watterson I wouldn’t bet on it. I just had brand new heads installed on our 3.7 07’ Commander about 3 months ago. Guess what? It tossed #2 and #4 exhaust rockers a few days ago. I posted a video of the noise a day before it did it. This time rockerlocks are getting installed on each and every rocker. One would think on a new heads the problem would be corrected.
Mark Osborne After your reply I got out the paperwork and they are indeed remanufactured that the Jeep Dealership got. Look at my channel and have a hear. What does it sound like to you? It literally tossed 2 rockers the next day. But it was making that noise off and on for about 3-4 months
Mark Osborne Hi Mark. So I ended up getting 12 washers to do every lash adjuster since I have it all apart. Is this a good idea? Also I cannot find the oem spec on how deep the lash well is supposed to be.
Don't like the idea of a washer. I replaced the heads on my 04 I got for cheap because the 4.7 dropped a valve seat. Fixed that problem with the new heads, installed HO cams, all new timing components and the lash adjusters. Took half a winter for the cold start clattering to begin. Looking for to me a better fix then washers I ended up spending some coin for solid adjustable lash followers. Took some time to set up however now it is quiet again except for the ticking of the valve clearances which is now .002-.004 at the roller/cam lobe, but it reminds me of my old solid lifter Chevy which is good. No washers, and never again have to worry about a kicked rocker. A big plus was a noticeably smoother idle and a definite increase in power, especially at the top end, revs out further without the fall on it's face at 5000.
The heads I've fixed with the washer trick was due to the lifter pocket being machined too deep and the engines all ticked when cold from day one, or tossed rockers randomly. If your engine was quiet and slowly started ticking (when cold) after half a winter (I assume a couple months), you have a different problem. IE: debris (sludge from the oil pan) got into the lifter(s) causing the little check valve to malfunction or a couple valve seats have dropped a bit. But I'm glad you've found a solution (for now) !
@@mark_osborne The problem I have is the same as all of them, an inferior lash adjuster design. The purpose of the hyd is to take up the variances in tolerances and heat growth, though the growth is more prevalent in OHV applications vs OHC. As far as my engine when the heads were done I also replaced everything else. The only parts left were the rotating and reciprocating assemblies. The heads are new with redone seats, they are not sinking. If so I am sure I would have heard it long ago considering I am running solid adjusters with no change in sound for a year now. Chrysler fixed it somewhat with new rockers in 05 or 06 which have much smaller oil splash holes on the lash side that are also aimed toward the valve stem vs just spewing in the air. The purpose is to allow pressure to build up much quickly in the adjuster without the large controlled leak the bigger old hole allowed. I understand how your fix works and if your customers are happy great, however as a retired Powertrain Designer I prefer a remedy that more effects the root cause of the problem.
@@charliedee9276.... as as a fellow mechanical engineer, I completely get it. The thing that made me question your particular situation wasn't your remedy, it's the fact that your problem only started several months after you replaced the heads. It's all good. And yes, your idea of adjustable rockers would have accomplished the same thing as shimming up the lifter with an .085 inch washer. We have no arguments (at least I don't)
@@mark_osborne No arguments at all, just different means to the same end. I bought the Jeep not running, it may have been doing it before I owned it. Number 4 had dropped the intake seat, luckily it stayed on the valve and didn't beat up the piston crown. The engine was pretty clean inside with 121,000 on it, but I thought seeing I had the heads off and the entire front of the engine off I might as well change the oil pump....that led to the pan and it snowballed from there, lol. Now even all the accy's are new except the AC compressor and it runs like a top, just clicked over 153,000 with it.
vanislboy Sorry to anyone who asked questions about this job, I just discovered the little red icon telling me I have a message. The engine ran great and is still running great....never tossed another rocker arm
you simply don't know what you're talking about.You cannot bend a valve with these lash ajusters,it is different than push rods but by not knowing this you obviously are not a mechanic
I just wanted you to know I have been trying to fix my
Jeep liberty for three years no finally convinced my mechanic to try putting washers on the passenger side it fixed my Jeep !! You are awesome and wanted to tell you thank you very much !!
Love it ~!~
Hey, Mark! I wanted to stop by and say THANK YOU! I have a 2004 Dodge Dakota with a 3.7 6 Cylinder. I bought the truck new and I've taken great care of it. Last year around 135,000 miles it started throwing the #2 and #4 exhaust side rocker arms. The truck would sit over night, and throw a rocker arm in the morning when I tried starting it. My mechanic replaced the rocker arms and lash adjusters (lifters) to no avail. I sent him this video and he shimmed it as suggested. 2 months running strong!
Great great news !
Did he shim all the rockers or just the 2 that were thrown?
@@rotaryperfection Good question.but no answer
You should add to the title FIX RESOLVED WITH WASHERS ! I have a hard time finding your video with so many on this issue. Yours has the best resolution and confirmed results!
I will add that ! thank you
Since making this video over 6 years ago, I've had multiple 4.7 and 3.7 engines apart. I made it a point to measure the depth of the lifter bore as I discovered, some are machined deeper than others. In the case of the ones where the bores were machined deeper, the engines suffered from lifter noise when first started (cold). I gave every mis-machined head the 'washer treatment' you see in this video--- and guess what--- that's right, the noisy lifter problem is forever eliminated. One customer, with a Dodge Durango had purchased the truck new and had it back to the dealer several times, complaining about noisy lifters, and all they did was kick it down the road. I solved the problem with the washer trick
hi mark i got a 3.7 with a cold start ticking noise that goes away after reatching operating temps your saying washers will fix this problem?
Mark Osborne What is the depth of the bore to know when washers are needed? Can I just add thinner washers in all 16 bores just to save me from having to pull valve covers off in the future?
@@robwilson1140 mesure the other ones and you'll find out the difference easily
Great to here! I just bought a 2005 Ram 1500 3.7 with only 120k from auction. Engine is locked up. Will remove the valve covers this week to check and see if this is the problem. Hopefully it's just this rocker problem.
@@rotaryperfection Let us know what you find !
Very clear voice. Easy to understand. I can see exactly what the problem is and how to fix it. Thanks.
Fixed it forever... runs great
Mark,thank you for the fix,it is working as it should ,I have to make 1 correction about the size of the lock washer,you say 7/16 (by mistake obviously) 7/16 is to large to fit in the hole and anyway to thick for what we need,the correct size is 5/16 (on the 3.7anyway,I guess it is the same for the 4.7) and the ones i used were .083" thick wich is perfect. my # 2and #4 came out one after the other in less than 2 months so i changed them all (12) for brand new ones,5 1/2 months later they both got out again almost silmultaniously,so I did the shim job , 7 months ago and my engine has never runned so smoothly before with no recurring event yet...thanks Mark
ps
I gave the washer trick to my local mechanic who had seen this problem often on those engines 'cause he was working on one when I stopped there,he had never heard of that and called me a few days later to thank me and wondering why he had not see that anywhere before,telling me he has been seeing that trouble for at least the last 15 years but had never found a permanent solution,after testing he concluded that this was indeed the right fix.
what is the shape of the washer ?
@@Diflok.pl_Przemek_Makowskiflatened lock washer; round 5/16 ,0.83" thick
@@omdunor891 - Assume you meant 0.083 - And why a lock washer? Are you saying one with the points around the edge and hammered them flat?
BTW, talked to the customer last week and the vehicle is still running fine some 20 months following this repair
Mark Osborne, nice to hear the progress 20 months in. I would say its a fix!
I wish I would have found this channel/you years ago!
I am a mechanic of 22 years (mostly on log trucks and rock trucks), but watching your videos has given me so much knowledge and I sight into my 4.7!
Thank you for all your efforts and for recording your work and sharing it!
Also, I was interested to know if the rocker arm stayed on and if it fixed or atleast helped with the ticking.
I uave had my truck since 2003 and I have 210k on the engine.
This last year I uave had problem after problem but I belive all the issues stem from my #4 rocker getting kicked off, and I belive that my timing chains and timming tensioner are all maxed out and no longer applying tension.
Anyways....thank you for your work buddy!
@@nativeguybubba thank you for your kind words ! Yes, in the case of my customer's car, it fixed it forever. But I'm pretty sure you just have a sticky lash adjuster which provided just enough valve train lash -it tossed a rocker. Good job on the 210K. I like these engines a lot, but as you correctly point out, the timing chains and guides have seen their better day. I just had one apart about a month ago.
@@mark_osborne
I'm so glad I found this clip, 11 years after you posted it it's still helping people.
Would it harm popping washers underneath all off the lash adjusters in your opinion just as a precaution?
@@mr.never.wrong. Thank you for the kind words, I also find it amazing how many people watch this video and the outpouring of thanks. So, if you have a head that has been machined too deep (the lifter hole), it will very likely be machined too deep on every hole. That has been my experience. So yes, I think you'd be safe dropping a washer in every hole.
Great idea Mark. I read somewhere that the feed hole under the lifter gets dirty and doesn't allow enough oil flow/pressure to come up immediately after start up and it causes the rockers to fall. It is a great theory. But your idea rocks. Sharing this with my friends.
I have been seafoaming my 2000 grand cherokee at every other oilchange since day one. 240,000 miles later and I have NEVER had this issue. I also use a motor flush once a year and add lucas oil stabilizer at every oil change. Seems to be working very well.
100% it shouldn't need a washer just proper oil change and proper oil psi
@@Carlos-ip2ir Both correct. Keep it clean via synthetic oil changes often & the bores also have a quality control issue as well.
Yes, it's been 3 months and so far so good !
Hi Mark - Grateful for you sharing this on TH-cam ! My 2004 Cherokee 4.7 (116k miles, 2nd owner) has spit out the #1 intake rocker, and the lifter was stuck, apparently the check ball problem. The engine internals appear very clean, as I've been using synthetic oil and Seafoam the last 2 oil changes. I don't know the Jeep's history, bought it at 102k miles about 4 years back and have had no trouble since, other than this clattering starting about 1k miles ago when cold engine start, and then the rocker spitting out last week.Anyway, I've ordered a new set of lifters, and plan to follow your advice to a tee, plus I have read elsewhere to spin the motor over with the lifter out and ensure there is oil "squirting" into the lifter hole thus indicating proper lubrication. I will be coming back and reporting progress as it occurs... again, THANKS!!!
I took apart the "offending" lifter (valve lash adjuster) and it was incredibly nasty and gummed up inside. Apparently a couple of Seafoam treatments doesn't cure all ills. I'm considering placing washer "spacers" (approximately .075-.080" total thickness) under the lifter as recommended by mugiver411 on his video in case I have a dropped seat on this intake valve. New set of lifters not here yet, so on hold for now.
OK, first and foremost, I previously mis-identified which lifter was bad, it was actually the No.1 cylinder exhaust valve rocker that spit out, caused by a partially dropped seat I theorize.Moving on... the new lifters arrived, installed all new ones on driver's side of engine. I did put in two 3//16 flat washers (total spacer thickness is approximately .075") under the No.1 lifter. Before changing out lifters I checked all rockers with cam lobe opposite of rocker roller, and none of the rockers were loose, so I don't feel like another rocker is about to spit out (hopefully). Also cranked over engine while the No.1 exhaust valve lifter was out of its bore and oil at first didn't fill the "chamber" until the engine cranked for about 7-10 seconds, so either the oil supply hole was plugged up or this is typical for these engines after sitting for 5 days. Warmed it up thoroughly and then took it out and stomped on the gas pedal, took her up to 5k rpm's thru the gears and everything seems good... real good!!!
Well done sir! I was about at my wits end and about to try this myself. Thought I'd check if anyone else had. Great news!! Thank you for posting.
Removing the rocker arm involves rotating the engine until the cam lobe is pointing "up" away from the rocker arm (removing all tension), then taking a large screw driver and prying down on the valve spring using the underside of the camshaft as a pry point. Take your second hand and push on the rocker arm as you are prying down and it will slip right out. Installing the rocker arm is the reverse. Once you've done a couple... you won't believe how easy it is...
If this problem was on the intake side would it cause it to smoke a lot?, i poped my valve cover off and just seen the intake rocker just laying in the head, didn't want to go back on... I'm going to go to pull apart and take a rocker arm off of one and try it out, I don't recommend doing it , but I don't want to buy new ones and this is not the issue
a cylinder can pump a slight amount of oil when it's not firing but i highly doubt you'd notice it in the exhaust stream. let us know if it quits smoking when you get the rocker arm reinstalled
Man this works perfect my Jeep is running better than it ever has
Awesome !
I have a 2003 Jeep liberty renegade 3.7 and was having trouble with number 6 exhaust. bought all new lifters and put them all in seemed fine. after setting over night went to start kept throwing that same rocker off. found this video and used the same washer Mark had used. after that it threw number 4 exhaust. so I said heck with it and shimmed them all and changed oil n filter. using mobile 1 5w20 and started it up cold not 1 tap or chatter of any kind. jeep has 133.574 miles bought used in 05 with only 15k miles have only ever used Mobile 1 synthetic oil. has a little sludge in it but overall very clean inside. mainly the sludge is around the damn oil filler connected to the head. will update in time on this but it works and my Jeep still runs like a champ doesn't miss a beat.
I love it
I hear no engine noise but have a really bad misfire on 2,4,6 changed everything I can think of . Cam and crank sensors fuel injector o rings o2 sensors coils are good . Can smell very rich gas from tail pipe . Almost sounds like you can hear air going into the intake every compression stroke . Do you think this is my problem?
I do not think this is your problem. Sounds like a the next thing to do is a compression test.
@@mark_osborne okay will do ! Gonna do the compression test . If that checks out I’m gonna put the exhaust off a bit to see if the cats are clogged . If that doesn’t help then I’m going to take the valve cover off wish me luck 🥺
@@mark_osborne do you have a email I can send the video of the sound ?
@@Rehziicodm gearhead4you@yahoo.com
@@mark_osborne sent it thank you !
so it didn't flatten the lobes of the camshaft at all?
I just discovered my timing cover leak is running down the front inside of the engine into the oil pan. So Coolant in the oil only about a table spoon a week could add up and I bet water in a hydraulic lifter might stop if from performing properly? Yet it's odd that i have never once had a rocker pop off on the drivers side. They keep popping off the passenger side. Which I see is a known side with issues. One video he shows a bunch in a salvage yard #2 cylinder being the most common to have this issue.
Certainly coolant in the oil can make sludge and eventually find it's way into the lifters. That timing cover leak is common and not at all a bad job to repair.
I was informed and have seen this vehicle is supposed to only use 5w-30 Full Synthetic oil. Having same issue. Replace the lash adjusters 2x's same issue. Wondering if too thick of oil can cause this issue too. I have had this issue only passenger side mostly #8 and #2 cylinders. Wondering if I should put washers in them all to be safe. Curious too why a washer that you had to hammer flat? Assuming that's what you did. Can you make a video showing more exactly what you used washer wise. Thanks so much. Hope this fixes my vehicle. Had 4 mechanics and $1000 spent on it with no fix.
It's not your oil. I used a lock washer because it was .085 thick, which is the approximate thickness wanted, and it was small enough in diameter to fit into the hole. My bet would be, if you did this to # 2 and #8 your problem would likely go away. Let us know.
@@mark_osborne Thanks for the reply! Baught some washers but their. 05 thick is that enough?or should I keep looking? & would it hurt anything to put them under them all. Just don't wanna be taking it apart again.
@@livenfree .050 is certainly better than nothing assuming this is the problem. You could also have seats that have fallen, and the washer will mask that problem. The basic issue with the vehicle in my video (and other's that I've repaired using this strategy) is the lifter bores are machined too deep. There's no easy way for you to tell. So the washer trick is just a stab in the dark, albeit it will likely solve your issue one way or another. Because it has only happened to #2 and #8, to be safe, I'd only put washers on the effected rockers because we don't know if the other lifter bores are machined too deep or not. You could take a chance and put washers under all lifters on that bank, but just make sure the valves are not being held open or you'll have no compression on those cylinders. In other words, if you put washers under all, before putting the rocker cover back on, do a quick compression test.
@@mark_osborne thank you! First times it was #8 & #4 now it's #2 & don't know if it was exhaust or intake valve on those. Assuming u raise both intake & exhaust lifters on a cylinder that's had an issue? Another thing I've read on TH-cam comments is people solving this issue by flushing out the ports below each lash adjuster that get plugged. They said to turn the engine over with the adjuster out one at a time.
@@livenfree If the engine is loaded with sludge you could certainly give this a try
Great video, Thanks, i just fixed a Jeep 4.7 today with the number 8 cyl. My fist thought was that someone had floated the valves by over revving. I didn't find this video until I had already just put the rocker back on and it runs fine. If it happens again I will try the washer trick. Im going to change the oil and filter with a good flush first. Years ago I would put some trans fluid in to unstick a lazy lifter. Seems like they could come up with some kind of a keeper for the rockers on this design. Another guy told me that the heads warp over time and make the rockers fall out. Im not buying into that one.
Fred Shaw Good deal. I don't believe the warped head theory either
hey I have a jeep 4.7 as well and I think I might be having the same problem. truck idles bad and makes a clattering noise. engine compression is lower than normal what should the problem be? any advice is helpful !
My 2006 4.7L Ram 1500 threw cyl 8. I put 2 thin washers. Worked for 5 minutes and threw it again. I'm going to add 1 more washer but my fear is a droooed valve seat
Yes, I think you are correct
Hi Mark, did the washer trick help with lifter tick at all?
Fixed it forever.... runs great
Great thanks, i took out all my lifters and they were all stuck, took them apart and cleaned them well, they felt new, installed them but have some lifter tick especially when the engine is cold.
Do you have a base measurement number, and the way you measured it to know what is to deep ? Or do you take them all off and measure them all and compare ? Thank You for your time..
I'm guessing.. stick a stick in the holes where the lifters go and make a mark on the stick at the top of each one. All 12 marks should be the same, relatively. If you have one or 2 or more or that are way outside the others than you can confirm inconsistent machining in those holes thus justifying giving them the washer there.
So the results over time are??? I just picked up a 4.7 Grand Cherokee thats tossing off the # 2 intake. This seems like a viable fix since the culprit is likely oil pressure / pump up related combined with carbon on the valve stem which can cause the valve to slow close or stick. Figure if i could get it running with the washer idea then run a TON of flush through the engine then swap it over to synthetic oil and use a good combustion chamber cleaner it might clear up without having r&r heads.
Did this fix the problem? I have an 04 Dakoda 4.7L and am having this problem on multiple cylinders. I have in the shop once a month. I know this is a common problem with the 3.7 and 4.7 motors but can't find a fix.
Hey are you still active on TH-cam I have some questions
Yes
Any reason why you choose a lock washer? Thanks for any info
I have also had this problem im fixing right now. I have 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.7l. I have been looking around all over the place for what might be the cause of this. Most of what I have found is a build up of carbon on the valves. A good Seafoam treatment or a cabron cleaning treatment will help this. Hope I dont have to do this job again! Good Luck
not related to throwing lash ajusters out of their seats
Is there a way to know, without taking off the head, if the engine is tossing a rocker?
I just ran into this issue on a clients car only on cylinder 4 though. My problem was the valve seats on cylinder 4, intake and exhaust.
Yes, if the valve seats drop the same thing can happen. Glad you got it solved !
What makes you think that lock washer is going to stay there? Tha cam is just going to throw it somewhere
I can't believe the manufacturer would allow this out the door. I imagine the tolerance of the depth of that counter bore is somewhere around +/- .01.
You are correct, it's pathetic
WARNING: To those watching his "fix";The lock washer is a "split type" Yes, he flattened it out with a hammer. It remains a piece of non heat treated steel [of Asian sourcing more than likely.] Never intended for this, and not even having the correct surface finish. A backyard fix that could potentially do serious damage if the 'split' starts to lift and no longer remains flat. Contact a machinist about making some shims that would work better than washers, If this "theory" is correct.
when I don't know what I am talking about,I simply shut up! By the way this is NOT a theory,it is a tested and permanent fix that has prooven itself to work.
@@omdunor891 this is not a permanent or proven fix ,it is not a tsb on all data or the dealer, proper way is to take care of those valves and not let the engine overheat
whats the update with the repaire?
Is the lock washer fix still working? I am trying to solve the same problem on my 2002 4.7 Dodge Dakota.
Good video.
My Dakota 3.7 started top end ticking on startup after an oil change. Goes away after a few minutes. Thinking this may be my issue.
Any good way to check and see which is making the noise?
I checked the plugs, and they all look about the same.
This is NOT your issue. If your problem only started after an oil change, I would definitely change your oil again and use a good filter. Not a Fram. The house brand oil filters at O'Rielly are excellent.
@@mark_osborne
I was sure it was a drain down issue too from a bad filter, but I changed it and it didn't help.
It doesn't tick right away, starts after 20 seconds or so, and lasts for about a minute.
I use 30w, but the shop I got it changed at used 20w. (First change at a shop and this happened)
It has a puralator filter from bi mart. It's the platinum filter with silicone anti drain back. It has 30w full synthetic in it now.
Should I try again just in case? Started after an oil change, and goes away after a few minutes...I was sure it was a bad filter.
And thank you.!!! I thought might get a reply, but not from you and 9 years after the post!
@@r1nger81 You're welcome. Based on what you're saying I'm starting to think you have a lifter who's internal check valve is faulty either from a speck of dirt that got past your filter, or some internal debris that had built up inside the lifter and finally broke loose. Thankfully they are inexpensive and not too awful bad to change !
I was hoping you would say that. Thank you again!
How loud of a knock was that with them off? Any video of engine running with them off before repair?Thx
you'll know when the lash ajuster comes out...
Hey hopeing these comments are still looked after did you have any trouble putting that rocker back on since the lifter sits a tad bit higher?
Hey Jim, no problem putting the rocker back on as you're compressing the valve spring slightly to get it to roll onto the valve. All good !
Mark, I have a 2008 Chrysler Aspen 4.7, 200,000 miles and have the same problem!! The noise goes away when it has been running for a while. horrible ticking noise at startup and worse during cold weather. Where can I find and those washers? I am not a mechanic and would like to try this on my Aspen.
I would NOT just randomly put washers under your lifters in attempt to resolve your problem. At 200K, your engine could be ticking for many other reasons. The repair in this video is strictly for engines who 'toss' rockers and there are no other known problems.
what size are the washers, im having to do this with a customers jeep.
Got a little bit of a tap, even at warm idle.....not worried about it though because the manual indicates this could happen and not to be concerned if it doesn't get louder as the rpms increase- which it doesnt. 199,000 miles (no rebuild) and it actually runs very well. Any cause for concern?
how long did the rockers stay on with the shims in the 3.7 jeep?
Hey mark, thank's for the video. I am having trouble with noisey lash adjusters myself. I was wondering if the problem is on the exhaust side only or should this trick be applied to all? I can't seem narrow it down to a single one and haven't had an issue with tossing rockers. I want to try this trick. Also i replaced all the lash adjusters about 15,000 miles ago and it's still noisey.
My experience has been that all lifter bores are machined too deep (not just exhaust or just intake), and it can apply to only one head on any particular engine, or both. So if you're going to try the shim trick, do them all. BTW, make sure after it sits for a bit you don't have any valves being held open before starting it up. It may have to sit overnight. Grab the rocker arm and make sure it's not under pressure, it should rock slightly and feel free once the lash adjuster has had a chance to collapse a bit to accommodate the new shim. Let us know how it works out !
hi I have a 2005 jeep Cherokee 4.7 v8 awd... now the problem I have is the engine makes a similar clattering sound and I'm not sure what it is but I did take it to a mechanic to check engine compression and from what I was told..too low and your valve is messed up. compression was at 95 psi and generally should be around 110 to 120 any ideas of what the problem is please help any info is helpful thank you!
I have a 2004 Jeep Liberty with a 3.7. I think I may have this problem. I hear a slight ticking in my lifters. First off I do tow a 20' Camper with the weight of 3,200#s loaded. I am using electric brakes, and a weight dist. hitch. The engine has 120k miles on it. They tell me I should retire it from towing. Jeep rated it for 5000#s Could towing have caused it to trow a rocker arm?
no,the cause is the bore of a couple of lash ajusters seats (#2 and 4) being to deep (factory made mistake never really followed up by the maker)
The problem is the valve seats on the head they come out of place and keep the valves from closing and the rockers come out of placeI just took my engine apart for the same reason and have to take the head to the machine shop to get them fix 350 for both head
Just magically lost all compression in a 2002 on cylinder 2...this gotta be my problem.
did the car start with those two arms gone
Yup, it ran. Just didn't hit on all 6 cylinders.
Mark, I have yet to drop a lifter in my 3.7. But you can definatly hear they are loose. How smooth is ur motor running now? Still no problems? Thanks for the help man
Forest Roeder I have replaced a lash adjuster when one rocker arm fell off. You will find that the adjuster does wear down a bit over time on the bottom,
You need to replace the rocker arms to the new updated style ,highers oil psi
Did you hear the clatter in the lifters even though they were replaced?
My 4.7 used to clatter badly. eventually, 4 intake rockers on 1 bank, and 1 intake rocker on the second bank fell off. I replaced all the rockers and still 1 intake rocker fell off. I swapped the lifter from the exhaust on the same cylinder. It hasn't fallen off, but still clatters, even when the engine is warm. Any ideas? Should I just try to shim it?
You could have a valve seat that has dropped a bit. No way to really tell without pulling the head. You could try adding the washer (like in this video) and see if it helps.
Thanks for the quick response. if the valve seat dropped, would I see lower compression in that cylinder?
As a side note, I had a ton of clatter before replacing all the lifters. now I only have one that is still clicking. Makes me wonder if one of the replacement lifters is bad.
If I choose to shim, can I just take out all the slack when its cold, or will it need more lift than that?
No, you would not see lower compression. When the seat drops (a tiny bit), nothing really changes except the lifter attempts to make up the clearance. If there is enough travel left in the lifter, you'd never even know a seat has fallen a bit. Once the lifter reaches it's maximum extended length, and there is additional clearance in the valve train, you could then hear a noise (clicking). The fact your problem was solved by changing lifters is a bit of a mystery unless your engine was very dirty internally, in which case the fresh lifters are now able to do their job do to the fact that their internal check valves are functioning correctly (because they are clean) . If your engine wasn't sludged up (dirty), I really can't explain why changing them made any difference as lifters basically never go bad except due to sludge causing the check valve to fail. If you know which rocker arm is making noise, you could try the washer trick under that lifter. Cold is fine. Hot is fine. There is no appreciable difference as the dimensions are so small that the coefficient of expansion of steel doesn't even come into play in this case. Furthermore, your goal is to place the lifter half way in it's travel. Study my video. If I did a good enough job explaining it, you should be able to get the just of it.
The lash adjusters should not be bleeding down excessively overnight. They may bleed a smidge. Since motor oil is 'not' hydraulic oil, it can sustain a new lifter, but not a lifter internally damaged, as yours' may be. The smart option would be to replace the hydraulic components, and use an oil stabilizer. 10w30 gets really thin after a while when hot. Preloading that lash adjuster with a washer could spell damage if thicker oil was used. This is a warning from planet G6780 345. Fornax system.
engine machinist told me if they overheat they tend to drop a valve seat briefly which causes the rocker to fall off. Gotta watch the temp. Said he has seen loose valve seats multiple times on 4.7s with ticking/thrown rockers.
More than Likely if it's the same two that keep coming off it's the valve seat has popped out
Justin, I am aware of the problem with the seats coming out, and it may very well be the seats dropped slightly causing the excess clearance. BTW, the vehicle is still running fine some 3 years later and has never tossed another rocker. Thanks for your input
Mark Osborne
mark, if the valve seats drop some, wouldn't the car show demonstrate poor idling.....ie valve not fully seated. I want to do what you have done.
catdog2two No the valve still closes all the way and seals, the seat just drops a bit.
Mark Osborne I just bought a 2005 liberty with the 3.7l. Is this still an issue for the 2005 3.7s?
I know this is a problem with the older 2005 era 3.7L . My Sister just bought a 2012 Jeep Liberty 3.7 with only 32K on it. Is this still a problem with the newer engines still? Also any thoughts on the future problems it may have. Right now it runs like a Swiss watch.
I have not heard of the problem on the late 3.7's -- she's probably fine
Robert Watterson I wouldn’t bet on it. I just had brand new heads installed on our 3.7 07’ Commander about 3 months ago. Guess what? It tossed #2 and #4 exhaust rockers a few days ago. I posted a video of the noise a day before it did it. This time rockerlocks are getting installed on each and every rocker. One would think on a new heads the problem would be corrected.
When you say 'new', do you mean brand new castings from Chrysler ?
Mark Osborne After your reply I got out the paperwork and they are indeed remanufactured that the Jeep Dealership got. Look at my channel and have a hear. What does it sound like to you? It literally tossed 2 rockers the next day. But it was making that noise off and on for about 3-4 months
Mark Osborne Hi Mark. So I ended up getting 12 washers to do every lash adjuster since I have it all apart. Is this a good idea? Also I cannot find the oem spec on how deep the lash well is supposed to be.
The main cause; lack of oil changes. dirt gets in the adjusters
my 4.7 is about to blow up
Cool
Don't like the idea of a washer. I replaced the heads on my 04 I got for cheap because the 4.7 dropped a valve seat. Fixed that problem with the new heads, installed HO cams, all new timing components and the lash adjusters. Took half a winter for the cold start clattering to begin. Looking for to me a better fix then washers I ended up spending some coin for solid adjustable lash followers. Took some time to set up however now it is quiet again except for the ticking of the valve clearances which is now .002-.004 at the roller/cam lobe, but it reminds me of my old solid lifter Chevy which is good. No washers, and never again have to worry about a kicked rocker. A big plus was a noticeably smoother idle and a definite increase in power, especially at the top end, revs out further without the fall on it's face at 5000.
The heads I've fixed with the washer trick was due to the lifter pocket being machined too deep and the engines all ticked when cold from day one, or tossed rockers randomly. If your engine was quiet and slowly started ticking (when cold) after half a winter (I assume a couple months), you have a different problem. IE: debris (sludge from the oil pan) got into the lifter(s) causing the little check valve to malfunction or a couple valve seats have dropped a bit. But I'm glad you've found a solution (for now) !
@@mark_osborne The problem I have is the same as all of them, an inferior lash adjuster design. The purpose of the hyd is to take up the variances in tolerances and heat growth, though the growth is more prevalent in OHV applications vs OHC. As far as my engine when the heads were done I also replaced everything else. The only parts left were the rotating and reciprocating assemblies. The heads are new with redone seats, they are not sinking. If so I am sure I would have heard it long ago considering I am running solid adjusters with no change in sound for a year now. Chrysler fixed it somewhat with new rockers in 05 or 06 which have much smaller oil splash holes on the lash side that are also aimed toward the valve stem vs just spewing in the air. The purpose is to allow pressure to build up much quickly in the adjuster without the large controlled leak the bigger old hole allowed. I understand how your fix works and if your customers are happy great, however as a retired Powertrain Designer I prefer a remedy that more effects the root cause of the problem.
@@charliedee9276.... as as a fellow mechanical engineer, I completely get it. The thing that made me question your particular situation wasn't your remedy, it's the fact that your problem only started several months after you replaced the heads. It's all good. And yes, your idea of adjustable rockers would have accomplished the same thing as shimming up the lifter with an .085 inch washer. We have no arguments (at least I don't)
@@mark_osborne No arguments at all, just different means to the same end. I bought the Jeep not running, it may have been doing it before I owned it. Number 4 had dropped the intake seat, luckily it stayed on the valve and didn't beat up the piston crown. The engine was pretty clean inside with 121,000 on it, but I thought seeing I had the heads off and the entire front of the engine off I might as well change the oil pump....that led to the pan and it snowballed from there, lol. Now even all the accy's are new except the AC compressor and it runs like a top, just clicked over 153,000 with it.
@@charliedee9276 Those 4.7's are great running engines !
The cause of this problem is the valve seats. If this quick fix works, I'll be doing it also as it will be easier than messing with the valve seats
What was the long term result of the Mickey Mouse fix? No offence intended.
vanislboy Sorry to anyone who asked questions about this job, I just discovered the little red icon telling me I have a message.
The engine ran great and is still running great....never tossed another rocker arm
where is the video of the Jeep running when you fixed it what the hell is wrong with you you make a video and then you don't post it running
DO NOT,DO NOT,DO NOT PUT A SPACER IT WILL BENT YOUR VALVE DO NOT PUT A SPACER......
you simply don't know what you're talking about.You cannot bend a valve with these lash ajusters,it is different than push rods but by not knowing this you obviously are not a mechanic