300 Ham'r vs 6.5 Grendel. No Comparison.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2024
- Demonstrating the ballistics of these 2 Calibers. They are nothing alike. But both are pretty good for mid range Deer/Varmint hunting.
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Vote tell all your friends to VOTE . tell the local Gun club members to vote, tell all the gun owners you know to VOTE or you WILL lose the right to own them.
Yes Sir! Indeed vote.
Vote local first our vote doesnt matter on november only the electoral college can make that decision on who wins
@@jorgesolis9468 True. Always participate in state and local elections (including school board) and pay close attention to your local politics. These are the people who have the greatest potential to directly affect your day-to-day life.
@@userer4579 yep they're our representatives
Finally, conclusive proof that 0.308 diameter bullets make slightly larger holes in paper than 0.264 diameter bullets.
HaHa! Thanks for watching.
😂😂🤦🏻
The 300 H'mr seems like the 7.62x39 at home. Really seems like the optimal .30 cal for the AR platform.
Wilson combat claims 100-175 fps faster velocity than the 7.62x39 using the same weight 125 gn. projectile. I don't own a 7.62x39 to verify. Thanks for watching.
Good Shooting Dave. Thanks for the comparison. Good information is always welcome.
Thanks for your kind words here and for watching.
Dave. Good video and shooting. Three great groups. Thanks for sharing the performance of the two guns. Take care.
Thanks Bobcat.
Great video Dave
Thanks for the kind words and for watching.
Great groups with both with both Wilson Hammer barrels. I have a 16" Sanders 6.5 grendel upper with same results at 100 yards with my own reloads using 123 grain SST bullet and CFE 223 using 31 grains. You should be getting much better groups with you 6.5 grendel with that long barrel. Thanks for sharing.
Generally do, just not with the 107gn Sierra TMK. Thanks for watching.
"You should be getting much better groups with you 6.5 grendel with that long barrel."
Shorter barrels are more accurate than longer barrels, all else being equal (same wall thickness, same manufacturing quality, etc), because they are stiffer. To illustrate that with an extreme example, suppose you have two pieces of 1/2" diameter copper pipe that are identical in every way except for their length. One is 6 feet long and one is 6 inches long. Which one is easier to flex?
The idea that longer barrels are more accurate is a myth which stems from the longer sight radius (i.e., longer distance between the front and rear sight) that you get with iron sights, which makes it easier to aim accurately. That creates the illusion that longer barrels are more accurate. With a scope however, sight radius isn't even a thing.
@@MaximRecoil Thanks for your opinion but I respectfully disagree. If you are a handloader "mostly" the best precision numbers are obtained from 24" or longer barrels unless the cartridge itself was designed for a fast burning powder that has a shorter pressure curve, therefore a full burn of powder for peak pressure in a shorter barrel. Question; did you see the 6.5 Grendel second group in this video with a different powder bullet combo? As stated in this video the 107gn TMK Sierra is not accurate in my Grendel but is very accurare in my 6.5 Creedmoors. Thanks for watching.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 "Thanks for your opinion but I respectfully disagree."
It's not an opinion, it's a law of physics. A shorter tube is stiffer, all else being equal. The stiffer a barrel is, the less it can flex/vibrate when firing, which means less variation to the bullet's point of impact. That's the main benefit of "bull barrels," i.e., by making them thicker-walled relative to their length, it increases stiffness. Shortening a barrel also inherently increases the wall thickness-to-length ratio.
There was a writer in one of the popular gun magazines in the early 1990s who did a lot of articles about those bolt-action centerfire handguns with 12" barrels, give or take a couple of inches. He got extreme accuracy from them, and also discussed the myth that longer barrels are more accurate than shorter barrels.
And keep in mind that it's an "all else being equal" thing. For example, you can easily increase the wall thickness when making a longer barrel to make it as stiff as a shorter barrel that has less wall thickness, but that wouldn't be an "all else being equal" situation.
"If you are a handloader "mostly" the best precision numbers are obtained from 24" or longer barrels unless the cartridge itself was designed for a fast burning powder that has a shorter pressure curve, therefore a full burn of powder for peak pressure in a shorter barrel."
You always have to find a load that matches up well with your gun for the best possible accuracy, regardless of barrel length.
"Question; did you see the 6.5 Grendel second group in this video with a different powder bullet combo?"
Yes, but what does that have to do with barrel length?
He's back! woo!
Thanks for watching.
That hammer does hammer them in there. Glad for the second Grendel group since I deer hunt with a 20 inch one and get good accuracy with it.
My Grendel shoots good indeed. I just wanted to show that not "All bullets work well, just because of a higher BC." I hope that understanding is better at the end of the video. Thanks for watching.
I'd like to see some velocity and accuracy comparisons using hammer bullets. Love the content thanks for the videos
Suggest viewing Wilson Combat 300 Ham'r videos or contacting Bill Wilson to see if he has tested these bullets. I only went with his suggestions in my rifle. Thanks for watching.
Meanwhile, back in the safe, your 25-06 is complaining to your 300 Roy, "aww...he never takes us anywhere anymore. " 😅 thanks, Dave!
HaHa! I take them out for an occasional spin around the sage brush.
At those speeds, the 300 will hit a little harder, but the Grendel will carry the speed and accuracy down range a good step farther. So, the question is, what's the job? Long range performance or shirt range? Great videos, Dave. Now I told my wife I need a 300 hammer...ya she laughed, and laughed and laughed some more.
At least she is in good humor. My wife just shakes her head. For these small case cartridges most shots will be limited in range, that is why I bought this one as a quick access truck rifle that can get the job done at a range that is within it's limits. If I anticipate a need for a shot beyond 250-300 yards, out to say 500 hundred yards (my max range for my limited abilities) then I will take a bigger, higher velocity, higher energy cartridge/rifle combo.
Grendel for me
Good choice. Thanks for watching.
Ooh Ill be back ta watch this one!!❤❤❤
Thanks CW.
Hey Dave, you and I have traveled the same road, I’m just somewhat ahead of you! I built my 1st AR with a 24” 6.5 Grendel. I found that I couldn’t duplicate the performance of the factory loaded 123 SST load. Extremely accurate and on paper ballistically formidably. I was so disappointed on its performance on deer in the field I moved away from it because for almost the same weight I could have a 6.5 Creedmoor and gain significant performance. I had been used to hunting with both the 25-06 and 308. I was looking for that level of performance. I built an AR-10 with a stupid expensive carbon fiber barrel. The 6.5 CM was one of the most accurate guns I’ve ever owned and building a AR-10 was not an experience I would recommend. That said I got it done, running like a sewing machine and took it out in the field. It ain’t no 308 or 25-06!!!! But because I had so much time and effort in it I kept giving it more chances. Ultimately it never delivered what I was looking for. I was fortunate to get my money out of it and turned to the Hamr. It’s shorter, lighter, handier, and inside of 250 yards more than enough for hogs and deer. It’s still no 308 or 25-06 but it’s close enough for this old man who hunts at under 250 yards it’s my first choice. The 6.5s just left me unimpressed in the field regardless of how ballistically superior they are.
Thanks for relaying your experiences here. In my experiences both the Grendel and the Creedmoor have had devastating results with the Speer Gold Dots and complete pass through on deer.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I never got that level of performance out of my Grendel. And the CM was clearly no 25-06.
25-06 is criminally underrated. I remember reading an article years back about 8-10 professional wildlife managers that each culled hundreds of animals a year out to 400 yards (and sometimes beyond). They collectively tried every hunting round on the market, and they ALL overwhelmingly preferred 25-06 as the round of choice.
What if you lower your load of the 107 grains grendel to the same 2600 +/- fps you're getting with the 120 grains spear ?
During the load work up of the 107's, powder charge weight made little difference. The 107's are made to be seated longer than the limits of the AR-15 magazine of 2.260". As stated they work very well in my Creedmoor's at longer seating depth. Thanks for your question.
Well done :)
Thanks for watching.
So about the same bullet grain and velocities and accuracy with the right load , the grendel just has more ballistic coefficient for longer range shoot capability. Less drag and wind drift.
Yes, but energy and terminal Ballistics under 300 yards are close, (which should be the intended pig/deer hunting range limit.) therefore higher BC is moot.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I agree the bc is moot under 300
Next I would point out cost per round being less for grendel, and Grendel being easier to find online and locally
I run a 18.5” 6.5 Grendel bbl on a DMR and it’s running just fine for groups and velocity. If you’re running a 24” bbl and the system is heavy…? That’s on you Sir.
Now you have me wondering how fast an 18" 308 will shoot various loads and can it match in accuracy to what you displayed here 🤔
308 will work fine, but in an AR-10 platform and not in a AR-15 platform. Thanks for watching.
If .300hamr was as popular as .300blk I would have gone that route. But alas, .300blk just caught on
Both have their special uses. Thanks for watching.
Dave, Im glad you explained the difference between apples and oranges lol. Dont you just hate it when your rifle makes you out to be wrong. Great Shooting Dave . I like the shirt.
Yes, testing while on camera can be humbling indeed. HaHa!
I got a couple boxes of the Sierra 107 TMK. I’ll let ya know how they do out of my 6.5 Grendel with a 18” barrel….
They work very well in my 6.5 Creedmoors. Thanks for watching.
Yup, America is THE .30 caliber nation.
Is the 300 hamr not basically a 300 blackout
The 300 blackout shines as a suppressed rifle with heavy for caliber bullets that can shoot subsonic very well. The 300 Ham'r is designed strictly as a supersonic hunting rifle cartridge using 95- 150 grain bullets that are 250-300 feet per second faster than the 300 Blackout.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I use 110 vmax and 125 speer tnt in my blackout on hogs and Whitetail with great effectiveness. Thanks Dave for another great video.
Less trimming down on the .223/5.56 case for the HAM'R which allows for more powder.
@@f_blake6096 10 4 I didn't know that, thanks I figured if Bill Wilson came up with it had to be improved even if it's just a little
What powders did you use?
CFE Blk. for the Ham'r. Power Pro Varmint for the Grendel.
300 Hammer is in a standard AR15 upper?
Yes, and has the same bolt and parent case of the 5.56/.223
All you need is a a barrel, every thing else is same as a 223/556 AR.
6.5 requires a different barrel, bolt and magazine
I get that you'll never really get a better cartridge for elk out of an AR platform than a 308 (but honestly, just get a composite stock bolt gun at that point, it'd be lighter.) But I also have a 6.5 grendel sbr with a 12" barrel that I can hit a 5" spread at 500 yards with, and following the ballistic charts, it's still lethal on deer and coyotes that far out... Why do people wanna pick on the little old grendel so bad? Wasn't designed to compete with the 308, yet it does? C'mon man. One is obviously better than the other.
Not picking on the Grendel at all. Glad you get great results with your Grendel. The Grendel does have a distance edge over the Ham'r
Both of these cartridges are best used for medium game under 300 yards. Thanks for watching.
The HamR seems effective. Not gonna buy any of it when 308 and Creedmoor and Grendel can do the same thing, and I already have them
It is not for everybody. But with only 40% of the recoil of a .308 and the ability to fire the cartridge in an AR-15 intrigued me.
too bad there is no data for reloading 300 Ham'r with heavy projectiles. if not I would trade my 300BLK for Ham'r
Ham'r is not made for heavy weight bullets. It is purpose built for hunting at mid range for medium game to rival the ballistics of the 30-30 Win. but used in an AR-15 platform.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 BTW Bill Wilson has taken Elk with the HAMM'R as well... just stayed inside 150 yards I believe
No data? Its an approved cartridge. There is loading data for it.
Can someone offer a ballpark guess or estimate of the energy on target between these two calibers? And Dave, what is your estimate of caliber vs speed? I know my little Grendel doesn't make very large holes but if it's faster than my blackout is there an appreciable difference? Guess I should add . . .I'm talking about killing power on hogs using hunting bullets and under 200 yards.
If the velocity is close between the two with the same grain weight bullets (120-125gn.) The energy is too close to call at 200 yds. But the .264 cal bullets of today have a claimed higher BC to carry the velocity and therefore energy at longer ranges.
If you compare the muzzle energy of the 120 6.5 to the 125 .30 they are extremely close as loaded by our host. The performance on game will depend on what the game is and where it is hit, as well as bullet construction and impact velocity. The 6.5 has the "potential" to penetrate deeper, more sectional density, .246 v .188, and the .30 has the larger initial cross section, which gives it a potential for a wider wound as it already has 26% more surface area even though only a 14% larger diameter, the 6.5 also will have higher ballistic coefficient so will maintain its velocity and resist drift better. Both should be lethal on hogs within your range limit and hit(s) to the vitals.
@@williamgaines9784 Well explained. Thanks for your comment here.
Im not seeing the difference between 300 HAMr and 300blk. They look almost identical. HAMR os loaded a tad hotter but with those stubby bullets I doubt it makes much difference on game
Thanks for your comment here. 200-300 fps with same weight bullets makes a good deal of difference for both external and terminal ballistics to a hunter.
inside 100 yards you may not see a big difference, but think of the 300 HAM'R more like a 30-30 in an AR platform. It is significantly better past 100 yards.
More powder capacity in the 300 Hamr. The BO was desogned for heavy subsonic bullets. 300 hamr designed for hunting with 100-135 gr bullets. The 300 Hamr is much better suited for hunting.
I’ll stick to my Grendel
That is shockingly bad accuracy with that barrel-bullet combination! Glad my Grendel does a whole lot better than that!
Glad for you and your rifle success. Thanks for watching.
Dave, your channel is one of my fav’s. I should have also said that the second Grendel grouping was excellent. 😁
Should have shot the most accurate bullets out of the 6.5 Grendel instead of the least accurate you gave the .300 hammer advantage over it
Tried to impart similar bullet weights for both rifles. As stated in the video, the 107 smk is not accurate in the Grendel, but weight wise is comparable to the 110 gr. in the Ham'r. The 120 grain in the Grendel is accurate as shown compared to the 125gr for the Ham'r. All rounds are my handloads. Thanks for your comment here for me to further clarify.
First !!
Thanks to all the N. East Texans.