Accuphase Vs Esoteric - Part 3 (DP800/DC801 vs Grandioso K1) [Susan Wong - Killing me Softly]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Adjust Earphone volume to suit.
Media: CD
Source: Accuphase DP800/DC801 AND Esoteric Grandioso K1
Pre-Amplifier: Accuphase C-2850
Power Amplifier: Plinius Reference A-300
Speakers: Marten Mingus Quintet
Digital Cable: Pink Faun USB
Interconnects: Zensati #1, Zensati Seraphim and Zensati Zorro
Speaker Cable: Zensati Zorro
Power Cables: Shunyata Alpha and Anaconda, Anzus Ceramic
NOTE: Recorded with iPhone 11 Pro Max with inbuilt microphone!!
Contact: DynamicAudio77@gmail.com
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/48PxwspDvrE/mqdefault.jpg)
Been around the world …. Read a lot of reviews and BS. Came back to this simple iPhone audio recording. Just fell in love with the accuphase sound signature. The singers voice is more airy and the brass instruments are softer. Last time I heard the recording on speakers…. Today I just thought of trying out my ear buds. Now I can’t stop myself from going back to the start of the accuphase phase over and over again.
This simple recording did something that lengthy silly reviews couldn’t do. No words were spoken and yettt …. Thanks a lot for making this video. I will be sleeping peacefully as my search is complete for this part of the journey.
Thank you for your kind words 🙏 Accuphase are great products IME…especially their flagship front end gear (SACD, DAC and Pre-amp). How they draw you in to the soul of the music whilst still retaining gobs of detail and resolution is uncanny.
Your room treatment is superb, otherwise an Iphone cannot possibly produce a recording of such quality.
Thank You for you kind words🙏 IME the listening room, quality of mains power (including dealing with common mode and differential noise) and isolation (both device and room) are the three fundamentals that contribute to more than 50% of sound quality of a set up...regardless of the price. Also, how your speaker couples to your room is critically important...often bigger is NOT better. Electronics (while important) come much later. Just my 2c 😊
Обалденный, классный звук и объемная сцена... Супер !!!
Спасибо 🙏
An oldie but a goodie showing the openness of the Esoteric vs the Accuphase
Thank you 🙏
These presentations are a matter of preference. I would choose the Esoteric due to the cleaner sound, although the other was more dimensional. The K1 produced more of a presence and meat on the bones through my system.
Thank you for your comments 🙏 I agree it is a matter of preference…which to me also varies depending on the track I listen. I think the key here is the Accuphase DC801 came out in 2006 and the K1 around 2017…I am constantly surprised how well the DC801 holds up against most current model DAC’s I have had in my set up.
@@DynamicAudio On the DAC geological time scale 2006 is almost prehistoric. Even the K1 of 2017 has evolved significantly. Whilst it can be upgraded with PS1 the new generation Master Sound Discrete XD series lives in a much higher orbit.
The Esoteric wins easily on resolution, transients and soundstage layering.
Thank You 🙏
@@DynamicAudio In general Esoteric are far more renowned for source equipment and Accuphase far more renowned for amplifying equipment.
@@connorduke4619 Thank you. Esoteric have by far the best CD traverse mechanism of any CD player available today. Almost every other manufacturer use cheaper off-the-shelf mechanisms from Sony or other manufacturers and repurpose them to suit their needs. With regards to DACs though; IME both a very good…and depending on the rest of your set up it is easy to prefer one over the other…with synergy being the key.
To put simply, Accuphase has a kind of liquid and delicateness that kinds of mimic tubes. It is also full bodied but with a lightness that comes from excellent attack transients that has impact but not overdone, decay and the fade notes is very natural and delicate. Vocals have a tube glow to it that sounds seductive. Airiness is natural and not overdone, just the right amount to sound convey the environment of the recording but not fake. Esoteric sounds darker in comparison and tonally denser and more full bodied due to its more muscular sound that emphasizes note to note density and distinction, but it does not have the finesse (flow) or delicacy that the accuphase has which is very extrodinary for a solid state. Vocals and mids are well done but it does have the glow effect that accuphase has that romances the listener. It's still very good but outclassed in this comparison imo. But then again, those marten speakers are amazing, hence it's easy to hear the difference, on other lesser speakers, it might be a different story. 😅
Thank You for your insightful comments 🙏
Accuphase creates more detailed scene. Provides more precise localisation. I think it has either better matched drivers, or the drivers have less distortions.
Thank You 🙏
The altar of audio!
Thank you 🙏
Absolutely incredible version of this beautiful song. Esoteric sounded harsher, imho.
Thank You 🙏 Cannot go wrong with Accuphase. Listening in room Esoteric does not sound harsh...but yes it has a different tonal balance.
I will choose esoteric
For high tone, Accphase is smoother, Esoteric is more detail, and has more air.
Thank You 🙏
Could live with both the Esoteric and the Accuphase XD Thanks for sharing!
Thank You 🙏
Accuphase bass is more relax does not over exaggerates while the esoteric does just a bit , mid range is clearer sounds great!
Thank you 🙏
Sounds like the K1 is a little warmer & bigger, and I think it just edges it on the voice too, seems just a touch less sibilant and a touch more transparent. Have to say though the Accuphase is really good too - maybe even a little more jump factor. Not much in it at all really; at least over TH-cam.
Depending on the track I tend to prefer one over the other. The K1 is able to dig a little deeper with CD's...hence able to present little more of the finer detail. With digital files though, I find both are equally good...albeit with subtle differences. But yes, between iPhone recording and TH-cam compression...much of the nuances are lost...especially in the bass/mid-bass frequencies!
The Esoteric player, no doubt. Accuphase sounds like nice audio. Esoteric is music. But honestly, comparing over the internet with dubious sound quality is not the way to make musical decisions like this. Listening to a spectacular violin over the internet is not like hearing it at "Bein & Fushi" in person.
Thank You 🙏 Agree that music over TH-cam is not the same as listening live 😊. I think this is more about making best use of a platform that is easily accessible...not the best sound wise, but gives you an idea.
Хорошо!
Accupahse for the longer listen.
Thank You 🙏
The star of this show is the Plinius.
Thank You 🙏 Very important piece of the puzzle no doubt.
The key to this system are the Accuphase components 🙂
Thank You 🙏
Clearly, for this song, Accuphase blows the Esoteric completely out of the water in terms of musicality, sound stage, dynamics and whatever that “it factor” is that draws you into the music.
Thank You 🙏
K1 is old model. The Esoteric X Master Sound Discrete is elevated to a totally different performance orbit.
Impossible to tell over YT however I do know both of these players and both are incredibly good so let's say a tie..If you want relaxed and chill go Accuphase or if you want Analytical then it has to be Esoteric.. Both have a part just like the many other players at this money and above..!!!
Thank You 🙏 Depending on the track it is easy to prefer one over the other. Cannot say universally one is better than the other. However, a 10 year older Accuphase (2006) can even compete with the Esoteric (2016) is a surprise. Perhaps, the Accuphase was way ahead of its time when it was released in 2006. 🙃
@@DynamicAudio Old doesn't always mean out dated and just sometimes it can even be better 🙂
@@garth56 Agree 👍
The Esoteric more laid back
Do you not agree? That it should have been Accuphase + Accuphase versus Esoteric + Esoteric? When you used the Accuphase preamp with the Esoteric amp it’s difficult to determine how much the Accuphase preamp is influencing the overall sound of the Esoteric; my guess is a great deal since the preamp is earlier in the chain; there are numerous videos showing how preamps change the outcome; just a suggestion.
I think this is less about whether I agree or not...but more about what constitutes a synergistic system that satisfies your listening preferences. IME sticking to the same brand does not always yield the results you want. If you know the sound you are chasing, you can get far better outcomes by combining the strengths of different products. But this can be a laborious and expensive journey. Also, in sufficiently resolving systems every component makes a difference (for better or for worse)...and having the same brand is not a determining factor. There is lots more to unpack here...if you like to have a more detailed conversation please feel free to email me. Thank you again for your comments 🙏
@@DynamicAudio
The Case for Choosing Electronics from One Manufacturer
The number of different electronic components that can add their own special sound character to a high-end system has also gotten higher. Many setups now have a separate front-end component for streaming, another for phono playback, and a separate SACD/CD transport or player. Some add a fourth to a preamp and power amp. This means four to seven active components-not counting the phono cartridge-and each then has its own cable connections, which also often involve different manufacturers, generations, levels of sophistication, and coloration.
A Determined Lack of Coloration
Regardless of the intentions and skill of the designers, mixing and matching means buying equipment designed to meet at least slightly different standards, and adding at least some low levels of coloration. Moreover, the chances of one coloration properly correcting another are slim. This makes a strong case for at least considering a “suite” of electronics
I appreciated this from the summary:
A preamp is a preamp, and I’ve already described the sound character of the Mark Levinson units. I also realize that calling an audio unit neutral, transparent, and uncolored lacks excitement, and will, to some, sound a bit bland and unexciting. It is more fun to claim that the product under review generated an epiphany bordering on a seizure, brought tears of joy to the eyes, or transformed the entire performance. Put differently, however, “neutral, transparent, and uncolored” means an excellent capability to actually reproduce what is on the recording, which I greatly prefer to saying that a unit revealed some unique aspect of the music that, in practice, is often a set of codewords for some form of coloration.
www.theabsolutesound.com/ar...206-preamplifier-and-no-5302-power-amplifier/
@@mahasidha9 Thanks, I am aware of this article...and other similar articles.
@@mahasidha9stop living inside a rigid box of rules created by someone. There’s a lot of marketing honey traps out there. Just close your eyes and pick what you enjoy more.
any recommendations for something around $4k (SACD player) ? I dont mind buying an old one...
There are plenty of options available…however you may need to try a few in your set up to find a good tonal synergy.
Are you from Sydney? Nice system! 👏🏼
Thank You. Yes I am based in Sydney!
@@DynamicAudio nice... I'm from Adelaide. Thats an amazing system you have got... Stunning room too 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@@2ChannelAudio Thanks Mate...small world!! Feel free to contact me at DynamicAudio77@gmail.com
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Please know it was not my intention to be or sound in any way argumentative; I am certain there are people who can take 7 components from different brands and turn the results into something transcendental; I am just not that mix and match and match guy; I am a VTL-VTL, VAC VAC Gryphon Gryphon you get the idea; Tidal has end to end including speakers and cables same for Gryphon; even if money were no object I would have a difficult time committing; do I like Carnegie Hall before the renovation or the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam?
No Problems...you are not sounding argumentative, and cogent disagreements are healthy 😊
To your point...Going with the same manufacturer does make sense in vast majority of systems...as it reduces the complexity (and the attendant costs in terms of time and money) in setting up systems. Just choose the house-sound you like and go with that manufacturer...All in. I have had (or tried) several such set-ups in the past 35 years of my audio journey...ranging from Gryphon (3 times), Boulder, Accuphase (2 times), Audio Research, Karan, Audia Flight, Mark Levinson (the real one), Electrocompaniet, Luxman, Nakamichi (going back a long time) and many more. So I do understand the point you are trying to make.
However, for those audio enthusiasts who have a reasonably good understanding of 'electrical synergy' (impedances, gain, grounding, interference etc etc) between various components (from different brands)...and have loads of patience to incrementally extract performance over time, can potentially unlock 'tonal synergy' that connects far more intimately with their listening preference (assuming they have one); which can be a magical experience when you get it right (factoring in the listening room as well). This is quite the opposite to relying on a single manufacturer (or designer by extension) to put their imprint on what your reference should be.
There are no universally right or wrong ways to pursue this noble hobby...just choose your poison...and be happy with your choices 😇
@@DynamicAudio I have had (or tried) several such set-ups in the past 35 years of my audio journey...ranging from Gryphon (3 times), Boulder, Accuphase (2 times), Audio Research, Karan, Audia Flight, Mark Levinson (the real one), Electrocompaniet, Luxman...I am VERY impressed. Of these do you have a favorite? I notice that Esoteric is missing. They have just released an F-01 Class A integrated and an F-02 AB integrated I would appreciate your impressions on Esoteric.
I got hooked when I first heard Martin Logan CLS IIZ with an all Audio Research system.
Accuphase - 3 year warranty
Luxman - 3 year warranty
Esoteric - 3 year warranty
Technics- 3 year warranty
Pass Labs - 3 year warranty
McIntosh- 3 year warranty
So in year number 4 you are on the hook for labor and parts and shipping; hardly seems fair to me but hey I am from the dinosaur age when all electronics came with five year warranties.
The other significant reason I am asking and am concerned about the warranty is I have in the past worried about purchasing from companies that are headed up by single individuals regardless of how good the products are.
Ole Møller, the designer of Copland tube and hybrid amplifiers in Denmark was born in 1954.
My wife was born in 1954 and just had open heart surgery, 12 weeks ago!
After Jim Thiel passed there was no more Thiel speakers.
James Bongiorno told everyone he made arrangements for his brother to take over the company after his passing; the company is essentially no more.
Nelson Pass is 72.
Frank Van Alstine has got to be 80.
I am guessing Dan D’Agostino is in his 70’s.
Dr. West of Soundlab, well he is very old and I do not see a future for that company.
Ralph Karsten of Atma- Sphere?
It is rumored that Bob Carver has dementia and is not in charge of the company.
I could go on and on regarding the owners of boutique companies, what I call mom and pop shops.
I worry that after they are gone, owners of their products will not be supported.
Statistically men pass before woman. I am 74; I do not want to leave my wife with a potential problem she has no resources to solve.
When a company goes out of business, resale value plummets when that happens, but more importantly, service can be a question.
Levinson comes with a 5 year warranty. Still should a service issue arise how is it handled? Sent to a service center right?
Even if Pass Labs did offer a 5 year warranty (and people do say it is a real business meaning it will go on when he passes no pun intended), Reno Hi-Fi, Inc. was the number one Pass Labs dealer in North America and they have closed, the owner retired.
From what I gathered they were primarily mail order. I reached out to Pass for a local dealer and the reply from Kent English was a dealer in another state and “most of his business is e-commerce / mail-order.”
To me these people are dealers in name only; they are in the drop ship business, and still want 40 points for filling out a form. They blame the Internet for killing their brick and mortar business, but they offer zero service.
We walked into a store in Santa Monica with the window declaring he was an authorized dealer for a particular brand. When I asked about a preamp he said “I don’t have it but I can get it for you.” I recognize a dealer cannot stock every product a manufacturer carries. I called the manufacturer and was told the dealer agreement states he is to carry one example of each for demonstration purposes. Despite my being the eyes and ears for that brand in the field it was not appreciated.
We went to a Martin Logan dealer also in Santa Monica and I asked about a speaker model and guess what he said? “I don’t have it but I can get it for you.” It really became something of a joke. But he said, if I bring it in you will have to pay a re-stocking fee if you don’t buy them. By my calculation it would have been an $800 audition! I later met the Martin Logan rep at a show and told him what happened. I added I do NOT believe in circumventing dealers but in actuality there is no dealer in my area as he is a dealer in name only. I asked if I could buy direct with an accommodation and his reply was no and he cannot tell the owner how to run his business. It left a bad taste for a long time.
Buying an audio product without an audition is, IMHO, nuts. Then the comeback is we give you an in home trial but if you don’t want it there is a 10% re-stocking fee. That entire process is too clunky for me.
It seems what is happening now is you order online like putting money in a candy vending machine and out comes the product; it doesn’t work for me, especially at these price points; not like ordering a cartridge; low risk.
Here is a wee bit of humor which is always a good thing.
We heard a great presentation from VAC and at the end I said to Kevin Hayes it was the best sound in the hotel but I am not willing to entertain tubes and he asked why? I said God-forbid I drop dead I do not want to leave my wife with a living room full of tube gear that she doesn’t know what to do with. The three obese men who were rudely talking throughout the music suddenly got silent; guess I hit a nerve. Kevin did not miss a beat. He shut the system down and told my wife “it is as easy as changing a light bulb” and then elegantly told her he would personally come to our home in my absence should an issue arise!
At the same time I know someone who had an Audio Research piece that when the tube went it took out a resistor I cannot recall the name of the part and the rest of the amp with it. He was in year number four; the repair cost was equal to the price he paid for the amp, so he had a fancy paper weight.
I like VTL too; Luke Manley is a one man show (with his wife). CJ was always too dark and colored for my taste, they have a new owner. hifiplus.com/articles/conrad-johnson-art108a-class-a-triode-mono-amplifier/
We own Martin Logan Expression 13A and I would love to put VTL Siegfried on them but a promise is a promise; nevertheless to date no solid state can do what tubes do for me. We have a Pro-ject RPM Carbon turntable and Sumiko Blackbird HO cartridge; presently I am considering an Accuphase E-4000 with phono card, Mark Levinson 585.5 with phono card and perhaps even the Technics SU-R1000 A great phono stage is important to us and we have 1,500 LPs (My wife says I married her for the vinyl).
The new Gryphon 333 with the phono card is 30K too much money for us and frankly I am not sure I want to spend 30K on an integrated; people have told me I should be looking for dealer demos which i did and found a Gryphon 300 that had been in the store on display for 3 years and the dealer offered full warranty; wanted 16k with the phono card but it is a 6 year old design.
@@mahasidha9 Thank You 🙏 Your VAC story got a chuckle out of me 😊
Regarding Warranty; IME if there are any manufacturing defects you will normally discover that within the first few weeks or months. Electronic pieces of gear (excluding mechanical devices like CD players, cassettes decks, R2R, speakers, tube gear etc) very rarely go bad once they are bedded in with use. Over the past 3 decades I have had well over 100+ pieces of gear come and go...and I have not had to call on warranty even once. Now this may be because I never switch off my gear (unless I am away or there are thunderstorms in my area)...and as such don't power cycle my gear often. The worst I have had is blown fuse on a few occasions which is easily replaced. Therefore, in my view focussing on warranty length at the exclusion of other important aspects of making a buying decision is not necessary. You might still want to satisfy yourself how a dealer/manufacturer will address any warranty issues should the need arise.
@@DynamicAudio Thank you very much regarding my worrying about warranty work; perhaps a function of old age; at the same time understandable since I do not want my wife cursing me in absentia what did he get me into with these damn tubes?! So not turning on and off makes perfect sense like the filament in a light bulb if you turn the light on and off it shortens the life span going from cold to hot to cold ; thanks for that all important tip;
@@DynamicAudioa noble hobby 😊 I would like to think of it as being noble, but I often I feel like I am being obsessive and pathologically perfectionist.
Accuphase had the advantage because you used their preamp; it should have been an Esoteric preamp with the amp to get a real comparison
Thank You 🙏
I find the Accuphase harsh! Esoteric much smoother.
Thank You 🙏
They are identical. Doing A/B comparison within the audio of the video shows no difference, which is to be expected with electronics. Unless someone has REALLY screwed up the design, they are transparent.
With accuphase I listen the piano
Thank You 🙏
I am wondering , why use an iPHone when the rest of the gear is of such high quality ????
Two words: Relevance and Convenience 😊
I choose to record on a iphone as I feel people can relate to it better. Anyone can record on their phone and compare notes, gain insights…for better or for worse.
I don’t think just using an external microphone with a phone or a camera improves the sound significantly…as the microphone preamp within cameras are not the best…and are often the bigger limiting factor.
If you really want to aim for the best sound recording (TH-cam compression not withstanding)…the only way way is to record the sound separately with using two microphones into a high quality Audio interface…and then merge the audio with the video. I have tried this too…But it is a lot of work.
Every other solution is a compromise to varying degrees.
@@DynamicAudio don’t agree to go for a really high end recording setup. I think Scarlett solo with a single shure s7mb will do the job any day.
Accuphase без Vsяких
esoteric play better
Thank You 🙏