Attaching Rafters and Trusses to Header Beams - Overview of a Couple Methods
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Here I talk about the traditional toenail approach to attaching rafters and trusses to header beams in a pole barn, then show an improved "blocking" method. I talk about attaching rafters and trusses directly to posts whenever possible. Then I finish up showing how rafters are attached on my timber frame carport project.
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Over the last week and a bit I built a pergola/gazebo roof using this system (that I then cladded with tongue and groove sheets)....Storm Kathleen has just hit us here in Ireland...and Im pretty sure the neighbours are all expecting a bundle of sticks in the morning....but Ive kept checking - and the thing is like a tank - not even creaking - thanks soooo much for your great video - so easy to follow and I can fully attest - it works!!!
I actually painted the whole frame in black bitumen - and the roof cladding is treated wood but stained with light oak - it all looks very pretty - but I just love the fact its so, so strong!
Thanks again
😃
Excellent presentation. Nobody shows us shit like this close-up thank you we've learned a lot
Awesome video thank you for sharing. It was very helpful and just what I needed 🙂
Hooray!! I detest toe nailing! We built barns for horses and cattle. Same issue on walls! Build your walls and floors for a horse and yer roof for gonzilla! 🤠
I've learned so much from this video! Used ur blocking technique on a lean to last fall and doing it again this fall for a new carport building for our airstream. I'm thankful we live on a farm and don't need a building inspector telling me to use hurricane straps;)
Very helpful thanks.. esp' minor details not often covered like which nails/screws to use, where, why. ..and the practicality of bolsters vs ties.. all very useful stuff for me.
All of your hurricane ties are installed incorrectly.
They’re supposed to be on the exterior side of the top plate of the walls.
They are installed on both sides of the wall on the barn with trusses, which was a code requirement given to us by the local authority. You cannot see the ones on the exterior because they are under siding now.
On structures with rafters that use a birdsmouth cut to meet the top plate or header, the ties need to be installed on the interior side. You would not want to install those only on the exterior side because the fasteners would be going into severed grain of the rafter tail downhill of the birdsmouth and have no holding power.
❤️🇺🇸💙 THANKS FOR SHARING ❤️🇺🇸💙
I like the 2x4’s for brackets a lot better than the metal brackets. I also run a Timberlok screw up through the beam into the rafter.
Would there be any need for the Timberlock screw?
@@SJ.77some places where a 2x4 bracket can’t be used or instead of a bracket or brace.
@@bigal25938 Ah ok gotya thanks :)
If you have a rafter tie in the lower 3rd and a collar tie in the upper 3rd, do you need girts at the ends? I'm asking because I'm trying to build one of these but its for an RV and I need more headroom entering the pole building. Great build by the way pretty impressive, I hope to get a saw mill for my property soon as I have 10s of acres of white pines.
Technically a proper rafter set or truss won't need girts on the gables. From the perspective of the static roof loads, the gables aren't any different. However, you wouldn't have very good shear resistance in the lower structure, so things like wind loads and even settling could do a number on the structure and allow it to rack sideways. So the gable girts and corner braces from post to girt are more about keeping the lower structure stiff and properly braced.
You could possibly add knee braces and/or work up scissor-style bracing at the gable ends but that would really only help with headroom in the center.
Another option is welded steel trusses. If you google "steel trusses for pole barns" you'll get a lot of good info. They are stiff enough that they can brace the structure in ways wood trusses cannot. You can gain a lot of headroom with steel trusses.
Excellent teaching thank you.
The current UDC also allows for a single structural screw to be diagonally driven through the top plate and into the rafter/truss. Much cleaner, easier and faster to install. SPAX, TIMERLOC are a few manufactures.
We did that with TimberLoks on a recent stick-frame project, and I liked it. They have a jig used to set the proper angle and position through the top plate. I have not seen any use of the method on pole barn headers (typically double 2x10 or 2x12 on edge). I assume it would still be OK if you could insure proper angle and depth when crossing the grain but don't know for sure.
Nice video! I landed here because I was trying to look up details on attaching rafters to a ridge beam that doesn't include just butting them up to the beam and using hangers. Do you have any videos or anything to say on the matter?
Structural or non-structural ridge?
@@Lumber_Jack structural ridge.
@@joshuasmith1215 For a structural ridge, I would definitely use hangers -- they will be the easiest way to do it and transfer the load. Alternately, you could use blocking and cross-nailing, but that requires very careful planning of the nail placement and won't be as good as hangers structurally. With blocking, I'd want a metal strap over the top of every rafter pair to secure the joint.
A third option I really like is to treat the structural ridge as a beam -- drop it lower a bit, and let the rafters rest on top of it. Plan your rafter spacing so that there is an offset and rafters from one side come up and overlap next to the other side where they cross over the ridge beam. You can face nail them together where they cross. If using this option, do not cut a birdsmouth into the rafter to seat onto the ridge beam, as that will reduce the effective size of the rafter. Instead, cut (or chisel) angles on the top of the ridge beam so that the rafter lays onto it, or cut wedge strips to go on top of the beam.
@@Lumber_Jack thank you so much for the reply!
@@Lumber_Jack I used 2 6x3's bolted together with stainless steel rods to form a 12x3 ridge beam (all Larch) and then fixed the rafters with blocks & 5" structural screws. I did not fit metal straps across opposing rafters as it seemed unnecessary. Metal roof sheeting not fitted yet. I don't seem to be able to attach a picture unfortunately! Thanks for your video.
I noticed while you were installing rafters they had birdsmouth cuts. I am doing a 16' × 16' lean to carport, and using 2×6 on the 1 1/2 edge side to connect the low side post together (or span) and same to connect low side to high side post together with high side at about 10ft and low side at about 8ft, so im guessing either a 1 or 2 pitch roof, and spacing rafters at 16" on center. I will be using a standing seam sheet metal roof, and i live in Central Texas and rarely see snow, but my question to "L" is do i need to do birdsmouth on 2×4 rafters or could i just lay them onto the 2×6 and block them like you did in your video?
The issue with just laying an angled rafter across a header is that the two will only meet along the outside edge of the header, and any roof loads will be pressing down on a very narrow section of wood grain on both members. Over time the grain on both will deform and/or fracture which could lead to issues (the least of which would be unpredictable loads on fasteners). Whenever we rest one structural member on another, we need to make sure there is enough bearing surface where they meet to support the wood grain, and you do not get that in this scenario.
An acceptable "shortcut" solution in this case, if you don't want to bother with a birdsmouth on a shallow angle, is to bevel the top of the 2x6 header at the angle of the roof pitch. Then the 2x4 rafters will sit nice and flat on the header with plenty of grain bearing area. Just realize there is nothing to keep the rafters from sliding while you work, so get them fastened as soon as possible and be sure any fasteners, brackets, or blocks are able to provide enough lateral resistance to hold the structure together. I think blocking with framing nails or structural screws will provide that. Lateral loads are generally pretty small on a lean-to roof under normal conditions.
You can see how I took this approach when attaching rafters to an existing structure in this video: th-cam.com/video/RcMBfz3mINk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bsb4CPVSEBSInypO&t=629
hi how long are the simpson screw you used for the the straps??
I appreciate the information that you have shared. But the subject I was most wanting to know about was partially covered during the video taping. Please point the camera and reveal 100% of the supporting 2/4 at 2:39 seconds on the video. I want to know how far the supporting 2 x 4 goes upward. If it touches the roof, did you cut it to an angle? Thank you for sharing this video. I want to see more. Lonnie
Look at the fasteners attaching the rafter to the block, and it will be obvious. You always want to carry the block as high as you can to get the fasteners as spread out as possible. I normally do not trim it to the roof angle but you could.
@@Lumber_Jack Thank you
Thank you. it was very usefull.
A hand driven nail holds better than gun nailed fastener.
Not a chance, gun nails have glue that activates when driven.
@@matthewprestine1974 glue is to hold the magazine of nails together. A nail is a nail.
@@caseykelso1 clearly you don't have any experience. Pneumatic nails have glue on them and it is friction activated when they are driven in. A nail is not a nail!
@@matthewprestine1974 what I do have is 70 years of common fucking sense asshole A Nail is a Nail
@@matthewprestine1974 and the first time the wind blows and the nails moves in the stud , just a don't hair , you break that little so called glue seal that you're supposedly talking about, which goes back to the fact that is nail is a nail...glue or not
Great video thank you
Your videos and information is not notch Thank You very much.
I have a question about the non structural ridge board. what would make it a structural ridge board? I am in the process of building a 12' x 12' Pavilion and am wondering if I can use what you did there but only use a 2x8 instead of the 1" x 8 board
Thank You
A non-structural ridge is just there to act as a nailing aid and doesn't support anything. The rafter design and size allows the rafters to form an arch and support the roof loads by themselves (with proper beam support on the eaves and proper bracing). When you cannot do that for some reason (could be due to span or roof shape or other factors) and the rafters require a center support, we call it a structural ridge. The structural ridge board will need to be supported from below with posts or walls, in order to carry the load down. A structural ridge can be carrying as much as half the roof load depending on the roof geometry.
Ideally you want a non-structural ridge to be light weight since it's only there to help you nail up the rafters and tie the rafters together. It really just needs very basic temporary support during construction (although often the supports will be left in place afterwards if they are not in the way, say in an attic or dead space). So you don't have to be fancy or use beefy lumber, in fact it's easier to use a thin board. I prefer a 1" board but a 2x8 would be just fine as long as it's not too heavy to lift into place and support while you're working.
@@Lumber_Jack Thank you very much for this information. Your videos and information are a blessing for us that are inexperienced with this type of building.
What type screws do you suggest both for trusses and purlins
I like GRK structural screws, and they come in a whole range of sizes. #10 are good general purpose framing screws, normally I get 3.5-4" screws but also use 3" in places. They have two different head types as well.
I think you called it a frost tie, its actually a collar tie.
I've heard "cross tie" (probably what I said) and "collar tie" used over the years. But collar tie is definitely the proper term.
Can you give me the dimensions of the header and the rafters of the 2nd example (blocking) please?
That is a 2x8 rafter on a double 2x10 header. Of course both sizes are dependent on your local roof load and snow load requirements, as well as things like pitch, rafter spacing, and pole spacing, so what I use here is not universal. Some locations can get by with smaller rafters and headers, while others need larger.
@@Lumber_Jack thanks for that. Do you reckon this size of timber is suitable for a vaulted ceiling? I have a concrete reinforced ring beam with a timber wall plate on top and was going to use your second example for a vaulted ceiling with rafters every 1.5ft. any suggestions on how to stabilize a header on top of wall plate?
@@af4265 Too many unknowns for me to say. Would really need to run all the roof calculations to know for sure.
Titanic,Space Shuttle the list goes on calculations are not what they are made out to be,them old barns were built with guys that couldn’t read or write stood the test of time just look at them Japanese building that is workmanship.
If you're going to drive nails in by hand, after pre-drilling to get a good angle, you might as well just sink a 4 inch deck screw instead. It would help you be able to reposition the truss/rafter easily too.