Why I....am disappointed with Company of Heroes 3
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2023
- To clarify this is not a review, this is just my opinion on the current state of CoH 3 and I hope the game improves. I don't hate the game or think it's the worst ever made as some people seem to think I am saying. Just me giving an opinion which like arseholes, we all have :)
A new series that I thought would help communicate my likes and dislikes about different games I have played recently or in the past. Today we look at Company of Heroes 3 from Relic. What should have been a hit, turned out to be something of a miss. - เกม
It feels like a budget version of CoH.
This comment sums it all up
Apart from the mechanical unpolish, I think one thing that people haven't been talking about is the theming of the game and how it's kinda... mixed, which kinda adds to why it's underwhelming or a letdown in other words.
By theming, I'm talking about where the game is taking it's inspirations from, and CoH has been known to take inspirations from famous pieces of media, both historical and pop culture, about the specific front. They even mention this in an old forum post about the art direction of CoH3.
CoH1 was influenced by the likes of Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers
CoH2 was influenced by the likes of Enemy at the Gates
and yknow what they placed in CoH3? Action focused movies like the original Inglorious Bastards or Commando movies
And based on some aspects of the game, you can really see the influences like the voicelines and general mood of how the Italian Campaign is structured.
The problem now is that they have elements that take away from that; mostly trying to appeal to the previous types of media's audience. They went for a more realistic sound design for the sfx, when you'd think an action movie inspired game would try to use the hollywood-esque style. They catered to the complaints of the game not being nitty gritty hence the main menu looks bland and uninspired. The African Operations is a more serious tone contrast to how cheesy the Italian Campaign is.
They had a theme that they didn't fully commit to thinking the audience wouldn't like it; and when they got feedback of how the game was bright and colorful in earlier tests, it cemented that they shouldn't fully commit to the over the top action themes they thought of doing.
And like, I would gladly take an over the top action flick based game rather than another trying to be realistic/nitty gritty game since it would fit way better with how CoH generally feels, whilst still maintaining decent writing that tells and respects the stories. Then again, the majority of the audience wanted more serious stories and tones so I don't think that it would mesh well with the community since it's not what they'd expect.
Regards to the state of the game, a lot of features really show how much "from scratch" the game was and I do generally think that CoH3 was too ambitious with their scope that caused this. Still glad they prioritized the core gameplay more though but I have a feeling the new system for the campaigns screwed their focuses over. Like this game has 2 entirely different systems: the RTS core gameplay, and the Turn Based Grand strategy gameplay. It's like if a 2d side scroller has a separate game mode that makes you play a 3rd person platformer. There's even unused files hinting that there was gonna be melee combat or ability. Let's also not even talk about console editions even further filling up the developer's plates (and there's only like 400 or so employees at Relic contrast to that of lets say Creative Assembly, another studio owned by Sega that has twice as much devs as them).
Honestly, I wish they delayed the singleplayer campaigns overall if they wanted to stick with it, and focused on the skirmish and multiplayer aspect only to release the campaigns later; but as a business choice as majority of the audience are those that only dabble with campaigns, I can see why that would be unwise.
CoH2 soviet army was also a mix of ealry and late war stuff too, so not unprecidented in the franchise. And as you say CoH isn't really about the realism, so I don't mind the mix of units in factions on maps they wouldn't be on. I like the factions.
That said the game still needs some work, but it is still good fun. For me the issues are more polish/ bugs and a few missing features.
Literally only 2000 person play the game
Italian special forces - paratroopers, desert recon and frogmen - were as highly skilled and dedicated as anything the allies or Germans fielded. Haven’t played myself, but this sounds like a missed opportunity.
They already have elite italian units tho
@@bro3217 fair point, but it would be good to see Italians as a fully-fledged fourth force.
@@captainbanjo1617 considering they have made up unicorn units like the black prince for the brits, there is 0 reason to not have one.
@@Schaden-freudethe black prince existed it just never saw service
Italy as a fourth faction would be quite fun I think. Give them cheaper armour to produce that is weaker health wise but with some SPG's and solid infantry. Unique air units exist as well for air support so you could easily make a unique faction for Italy.
I'm glad I waited to buy. After only playing under 2 hours of Dawn of War 3, I really don't trust Relic anymore.
yeah, they missed the mark by a mile. Another year of delay might saved it but it's too late now. It's sad but with newer RTS on the horizon COH3 will now just "poof!" out of existence. SEGA will just forget they even have this game under their name and throw the team into another project, never to be seen again.
I can see them doing the same with this as they did with DoW 3. One major overhaul of modes and some assets and then leaving it to rust.
Disappointed that its worse than COH1 and COH2, how could they fail so much. The only thing I can think is that COH3 is a console or phone game.
Ironically, if they didn't went into the direction of realism and historical facts like blitzkrieg/Wikings mod . We would've had more factions and setting because they would be commit with the setting regardless if certain factions has weaknesses/advantages.
I haven't bought the game yet but I dunno, I don't think I really get the feel of it from your overall review. There are just a lot of inconsistency, you've admitted that CoH doesn't really need to be historical accurate but went over the fact that they included the Black Prince? Or that you're complaining that the game doesn't feel 'the same' yet at the same time demanding something new
I just dunno, is it the same game as the previous or not? From your description the campaign just sound like some sort of Ardennes Assault DLC
To clarify the points you mention, the way Relic always set the games historically was a nice balance between the accuracy of the setting, the uniforms and the units while keeping the gameplay quite unrealistic and more quasi-realistic. So in previous games you would have tanks fighting on an equal footing that historically would not because it works for the gameplay.
So the Black Prince doesn't fit because it wasn't actually deployed is what I was aiming at there. Had they gone for something like the Comet for instance that would have been fine.
The new I was mentioning was new factions like Italy or mechanics and not a cut down Total War grand campaign with janky AI and lots of mechanics that are vaguely explained. Relic have a great track record of making solid campaigns with memorable missions and though some of these exist in this game, the vast majority of the battles are barebone basic skirmish matches with AI that struggles to challenge you.
So yeah that was what I was talking about but obviously didn't get that across very well. Sorry for that e21big
Yeah there has been a number of RTS games on consoles they just never proved to be all that popular Like c&c, Halo wars, Age of Empires: Definitive Edition
Is like command conquer Red Alert back in the day?
mate ... all they had to do was add all the good elements of the previous 2 games and the mods free to do what they want and EVERYONE would have been happy and played the shjt out of it for a decade !! HOW do these people fck up so badly and still have jobs ? do they think they are politicians ??
Around the 12 minute mark somewhere you say that wehrmacht don't have access to Tiger Tank. They actually do but its through a battlegroup.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of what you said. Unit rosters are awkward.
Ah my mistake there, but it is weird that you need a battlegroup for one of the top tier vehicles for the Wehrmacht. It should be the other way around for DAK and the Wehr really.
@@CriticalRocket yeah you're right about that
@@CriticalRocketNah. Coh3 is aiming for a toned down late game where not every game boils down to heavy vs heavy tanks. I like it, personally. The mid game is now actually interesting instead of being this phase where you make 1 light tank as a stepping stone to a medium or heavy tank.
@MrAerohank I get that is the idea for the PVP side which is probably for the better. I only ever play skirmish or comp stomp so the difference isn't as noticeable really. I wish Relic would pump up the AI difficulty like it was in the original game.
While this franchise isnt for me bc of the theme.
I was interested to give it a shot with part 3. But I just ended up watching some streams.
And now I heard the sad news about relic lay offs.
And that might impact Age 4 development aswell. Thats why I came to see why CoH 3 wasnt successful ( and maybe partly caused the lay offs ).
It sucks to hear about people losing their jobs and the impact this could have on current titles but also the future of the studio itself. If this news isn't a clear indication that CoH 3 failed to meet expectation internally, I don't know what does.
For a long time i have been watching the glitch compilations. It is absolutely hillarious, unless you were hoping the game would be good. The historical innaccuracies made me very extremely sad. though.
Glitch compilations make every game look bad. They are not an accurate representation of how games play.
At least use the Cneturion instead of the Black Prince :/
Considering the Centurion actually got used and the Black Prince never did.
This is why I moved over to Steel Division 2.
Much better game in every way, with so much more content.
Saw the first part of the title and was expecting a big brother voice over to start.
I didn't have time to be disappointed. After trying the demo, which I couldn't play for an hour, I went back to coh2.Keep up with your mix of Mobil and console and in a year nobody will play this game anymore. There are currently twice as many coh2 players, a game that is ten years old, isn't that an alarm signal?
I wonder them fixed random ranked based games for afk-ppl, or some them attack teamates like kick function or something? I remember sega anounced a function for complain against those players. I started extracting the video from last game i played and send em. Never got responde from relic/sega. It was b********. Also the massive hatespeech is an issue until today in Coh2. Garden, flower, and so on doesnt take affect, whe you can writ full words like b*tch, and others. Them invited haters to the game do so. So bad. This developer team suck as hell.
Trying to reason that the Italian tanks weren't that great so that's why they don't have a faction is hilarious esp when we were dealing with carro spam a few patches back.
But back to the your explanation of not caring about complete "realism," I agree that I play COH for more an arcade like approach to RTS games. COH hits that special niche where its an RTS w/o the eco micro management often needed in games like AoE.
IF THEY WANTED THE TRUE REALISTIC EXPERIENCE THEY WOULD PLAY GAMES LIKE MEN OF WAR WHERE TANKS AND INFANTRY CAN DIE IN A SINGLE SHOT.
I too also wished for a Japanese faction for COH2 (as it would make sense w/ Khalkhin Gol, Port Morsby, and Iwo Jima), but atlas it was not to be.
CoH does hit that nice middle ground of semi-realistic tactics and Hollywood style war movie battles quite well and I couldn't see why other nations are left out because of people crying that it would break immersion or something dumb like that. I really hope expansion 1 will add Italy as a full faction but I think it will just be a bunch of new battlegroups and some new units mixed in with them.
Mow has garbage unit ai that won't do anything unless direct controlled
@@kelthuzad4634 your own units that is generally true. For enemy ai they seem to be having an easy time killing my tanks all the time.
@@noxrige that's because you're human and can't micromanage everything
The thing is the gameplay HAS fundamentally changed. The Time to Kill was greatly reduced. Battles feel stale and drawn out. People stand in front of each other shooting for 2 minutes with little happening. Close quarters machine guns seem to do very little compared to getting COH 2 panzer grens in your face and shredding. Retreating units are basically un-killable. Models seem to only drop when the entire squad is below 20 percent health rather than getting random critical hits. Units feel less snappy and have too much momentum building. Tanks in COH 2 felt really good unlike in COH 3 (maybe trying to mimic COH 1?). Explosions have over compensating visual effects, like super loud audio but don't do as much damage as the VFX show you. Visual effects are basically footage and sprites looking rather cheap and arcady. This doesn't feel like a COH game to me but some bad spin-off.
The graphics of CoH3 is like an improved version of CoH1!
Even graphics is not very important to RTS game,but i do expect something similar to CoH2.
Filler missions are inevitable as not enough well known eye catching historical battles can be adapted in this theater. I DON'T mean any disrespect but the thing is one average gamer cannot name a single battle easily from Italy campaign (If he/she can name op Husky/OP Torch then he/she surely did some digging) as he/she can name Omaha/The Bugle/Market Garden/Barbarossa right a way.
In other words, the 'well' has not enough water to catch player's interest. Similar thing happens in The Great War: Western Front - it is not juicy enough. At least from the point of business.
The franchise is having fatigue. I can't agree more - the game is painfully generic. It's like a water downed version of CoH/a copycat game with a CoH facade.
The campaign could have followed the allied drive to Rome highlighting some of the issues the Allies faced and maybe even shown where they went wrong at some points, possibly giving you missions playing as the German defenders.
Open with the tutorial mission being the invasion of Sicily, move on to operation Baytown or Avalanche. You could have a mission playing the Axis in operation Achse and go from there up until the end of the war really. Plenty of material to use for a regular structured campaign. The strategic map mode might have been better as it's own thing and could have been one area where the team could have added new content with smaller campaigns to playthrough that would focus on smaller parts of the conflict.
@@CriticalRocket So many missed opportunities! But they somehow did this instead. Or they just want to make these as DLCs to make money? I dunno.
GUESS I WILL WAIT FOR A SALE.
this game is still not finished, more than half a year after release. It´s a fuckin disgrace.
never played any of the company of heroes games, looks good, may try one of the earlier versions first though
be warned other two are very campy and much slower paced
like one panther or tiger will decide game
All are good but the earlier games are both solid. Just give CoH 3 time to get patched up before taking a look @Stuart Lynch :)
Coh 1 was an RTS masterpiece, and highly recommended. It is by far the best of the 3.
Don't listen to people saying it was slow and campy, that just means they weren't very good at it. It requires a lot of practice and micro skill to reach its true form.
@@patton3338 it slow and campy compared to coh3 denying it just means you're stuck on nostalgia. Don't misunderstand me coh1 is a masterpiece.
Thanks for the new video enjoyed it
if you have not played CoH2 and CoH3 and did not knew its name, you actually would think CoH2 is the latest release with even better graphics and sounds. CoH3 just feels and plays bland, lots of even standard basic RTS features are missing, not to mention that the game is still full game breaking bugs like pathing or commands being ignored or squads leaving individual units behind ...
CoH2 had complaints when it first came out also.
@@moosehead9706 that is completely irrelevant for this product and does not excuse the shitshow Relic released here, actually it does make it even much worse, apparently part of their business model ...
@@Careoranit does not excuse it but what it does do is make the people who trash the game for things that have been an issue since coh1 look like idiots who clearly have never touched a coh game. Actually scratch that, people whove never touched a relic title. Never has relic released a fully polished game. Not any coh game and not any dow game
@@Careoran but it’s very relevant. everything you complained about can and very likely will be fixed through updates
@@will-zj5gq the argument of other games starting a mess (even more so if ages ago) is gaslightning, its is totally irrellevant for this product here. This is usually an argument of people not understanding economy. The only slight note is that it shows that this company has a long track record of failures on release. It is no guarantee whatsoever to know what will happen with this product. And in case you do not know the Relic which released Coh" has very little to do with the Relic Sega combo responsible for CoH3, neither company nor the people working on it. Failures of other products or even other companies do not excuse anything anywhere else. And even less so justify releasing an incomplete product and lying to its customers.
game is lackluster for its retail price
Yeah I saw this coming as soon as I saw the first beta footage surfacing from a few COH players, it looked awful and again Sega-Relic has not been doing very good for a long time so this was predictable unfortunately. It sucks but oh well, they were already doing the goofy skins back in COH 2 with the anime inspired crap or the holloween stuff that just did not look good, you have all of this history but you can't even be bothered to make the effort.
God that HUD is so obtrusive, what the hell were they thinking? Sure you removed the full 1/5th of the bottom screen issue from COH 1 and 2 but the corners now take up even more screen space than ever...... I swear developers tend to have such a lack of understanding of what makes a game a good game and they just go with whatever nonsense they can focus group up and call it a day.
I remember the feedback from the Alpha sessions as well being the same issues people called them out for, I can only assume a lot of these issues had come up internally but the team had the time pressure of SEGA and couldn't address them in time. I always hope with each update they can turn the ship around and I can more regularly jump in and enjoy some bot matches and campaign replays.
If Supreme Commander could be on the XBOX360 with minimal changes COH should of been fine.
That would be the hope that said I think it might have worked better for the game if they had been able to work on one platform, get it working properly and out before dedicating time and resources to the others so it all work well without issue. Working on both seems to have caused some issues going by some of the comments made.
Coh3 lost the immersion... MGs don't feel imponent anymore, tanks feels like toys, they don't feel heavy, explosion are reduced in graphics, buildings play are useless, victory points drain super past and there is no comeback mechanic, only 3 maps and colors feel super weird
i still play the orignal COH with the blitzkrieg mod. I was expected coh 3 to look better thenmcoh 2, not worse, i was expecting a lot more then this shit! have they put canadians in the game yet?
No Canadians and considering they mentioned the Commonwealth a lot during the lead up to the game they didn't do a great job representing it sadly. It's cool seeing some Indian troops and the Gurkha rifles but if you want to go all in on the Commonwealth side then yeah Canadian, South African, ANZAC and more just to name a few.
My personal opinion: yes the UI and various superficial stuff is completely unintuitive, bad, etc. But most of the mechanics of the in-game play itself are superior to both COH 1 and 2. The game feels very good to play. BUT where the fatal flaw it seems to ME, is that the FACTIONS simply don't feel as interesting as the previous games. It's hard to describe but basically, just taking COH2 as comparison, it feels like the factions were far more unique in their gameplay/gamestyles. The U.S. had that weird base system of choosing weaponry, the british were very different, the Germans had two very different factions. Here the factions all kind of feel similar for some reason. The vanilla Wehrmacht fashion feels kind of boring to me, as it's very vanilla-ish. U.S. and Britain don't feel different enough, even from Germany. In COH2 we had the USSR which was completely different from the others. There just doesn't feel like there's much VARIETY here. I almost feel like no matter which faction I play with the gamestyle kind of feels samey to me. I didn't get that feeling as much in COH2 when I switched between axis/allies. I understand COH2 didn't start with all those factions and they came with DLCs so maybe there's hope with this down the line, but mechanically it feels even tighter to me than COH 2 which is saying a lot so there's tons of potential.
I agree with this. I genuinely think Italy could have been the unique faction for this game and really brought something new to the game. That doesn't meant they aren't planned for a full upgrade and as you say the game does have all the potential to become a solid title in the series, it was clearly pushed out the door by SEGA early when it needed a little more time. They could easily make mini campaigns set in North Africa or focus around operation Husky and beyond for new units to debut and factions should they wish.
this game is so bad i would sell it if i could
I think COH3 is actually better then COH1,COH2, .Many people complain about COH3 , because there is not much difference compare to COH2.I think COH3 in the future will be the best COH game.
Honestly I hope it does improve and as you say become the best in the series because CoH is unique in the RTS genre and set a lot of what has become standard for these types of games, especially when we had a drought of them.
I would love to see Italy added, more smaller tightly scripted campaigns, more battlegroups with new units, maps and mechanics. Hopefully they can get over the hump and do these things and yeah make it a must have.
@@ryanvetter5852 I changed my mind .CO3 is actually much worse then COH 1,2.Im with you man.This is scam what they did , to COH3.Waste of money
Plays great modded. I enjoy it daily. Respect to the modding community
The mod community definitely helped early with the maps to give you more choice.
@@CriticalRocket fr. The Angriff and Luftwaffe mods make it a lot more fun too
Micro transactions and using the players as play testers might be why.
I don't think the game is bad or unfun but every bit of lack of polish, missing features, the poorly executed features just adds up and ruins the experience.
yeah alot of people complain about microtransactions but dont relieze the bigger picture. when coh2 released most ocmpanies like relic were fully independent so they could afford to take thier time and focus on jsut coh2 now every company like relic is under a publisher like microsoft and sony. they cant just surive on inital sales when they have to pay the steam fee and microsoft. Also i think coh3 was a great change from 2 since units are squishier and more fast paced enocurages fast decisive moves not just camp. Gone are the days where oen tiger or panther decided game
Lacks polish? The fundamental gameplay is broken and unfun and is evidenced by the death spiral in player numbers even after major balance patches that were promised to fix the game. That's just a statistical fact. There are plenty of unpolished games out there that have big player bases because the core mechanics are good and fun.
@@chrisjie2127 pple also forget how bad coh2 was on launch
@@junchoi2531 this comment is under every single criticism of COH3. It's like a copy and paste response everyone uses. Almost like it's bots doing it. It's one of the dumbest counters to any criticism of COH3. The game is literally dead and people will still say "PeOpLE FoRgET HoW Bad Coh2 WaS".
@@chrisjie2127 it true though people complain that there's no replay system but when coh2 had it on launch it 9 out of 10 crash your game. Coh 2 also never had a ranking system another complaint about coh3.
But like, if historical accuracy dont matter in a coh for you, why you bothering telling that a matilda was useless in that stage of the war?
I answered this in previous comments a while back but basically the distinction I failed to properly explain was that gameplay it's fine to be unrealistic. It's a game after all. But historical accuracy is important for a title like this.
Ah yeah just confused a bit. i agree with you in your other points, like this game was meant to have more viriety and more factions but failed and delivered the same.Maybe in the future
Sadly it hasn't, no one really cares for it. So it isn't really performing well.
As someone who played over 2k hours of coh2 i can say this is a bad Jam. COh3 is super fun, with a good crank on the graphics it looks excellent as well. Wer gets a tiger and this is just another drag on a game that yes, has a few rough edges but is overall very fun.
I played a ton of Coh1. For me. I didn't like Coh2 when it first came out. Stopped playing it pretty quickly. (Admittedly because I got into other games). As a returning Coh1 player. I'm really enjoying Coh3....Yes there are bugs and I wish somethings where different. But overall, it's a fun game.
@@moosehead9706 same here. I remember playing coh2 for the first time and thinking “ what in gods name have they done”. To me coh3 is a blend of coh1 and 2 in a excellent unique way. Cheers.
Well I said I was disappointed in the title and not really made or angry at it really. I hope it does get the fixes and improvements it needs to get it back to the better days of CoH as the series is one of my favourites. I personally feel the monetisation which is clearly SEGA forcing that didn't help the teams image when the game has issues currently but if they make major strides I will happily make a new video to say "this is massively improved, grab it when you can and have a blast". After all this isn't Redfall, just something that for me fell a little short.
Thanks for taking the time to comment though and have a good week :)
@@CriticalRocket i respect your opinion and even more the freedom to voice that. I did not mean to come in on you at all, I apologize if I came off that way. I do get passionate about coh and after so much time invested into coh and even PC gaming in general I guess I get a little defensive. You have a great week as well.
@@CriticalRocket The monetization is one of my big fears. The existence of 2 currencies (one of which has to be purchase and cannot be unlocked w/ the achievements) leaves me with a gut feeling that new battlegroups will be stuck behind a paywall leaving the option of possibly grinding for them off the table (at least in COH2 you could buy commanders if you grinded enough supply).
All coh3 has done is kill coh2, before killing itself. Instead of coh2 having 6k playerbase, its now 3k, and coh3 is 2k... dead games.
'Relic' are cell phone tier devs. They absolutely trashed Age of Empires and then moved on to trash their own game. Take a bow, Relic, you losers. /facepalm
age of empires 4 is good now so is coh3 unit are squishier and less campy encourages fast decisive gameplay a needed change. gone are the days when one tiger or one panther would end the game
@@junchoi2531 it really isn't, there's consistently twice to even three times the player count in Age2. Also COH3 is a step back from the last game, everyone agrees as well. Can a smooth brain kid in his sand box have fun playing with terds? Yes, yes he can. That doesn't make terds fun or acceptable, it just makes all the other kids point and laugh.
@@TheRealCaptainLavender age 4 literally became a esports game with tournament on liquidpedia and esla the same 2 which does csgo. People be hating on coh3 because they don't understand how campy and broken units made it hard to attract newbies and stuck on coh2
@@TheRealCaptainLavender also those numbers don't include games pass or console it pretty even
@@junchoi2531 lol. theres less than 20 million people on gamepass. That alone means there's less people on the WHOLE xbox ecosystem than STEAM alone. Just by simple math you can confidently say there are not as many people -playing those games on xbox than on steam.
Also this is a very large dose of cope, you might even be overdosing on it, guy. Those game are trash and most people will tell you so. The numbers also back this up.
Again, slow-dense children playing with turds does not a good game make.
I like CoH3. I think the flow and pace of matches is better than CoH2. CoH3 matched are much less late-game loaded than CoH2 due to how light vehicles stay relevant for longer and because games are shorter due to faster VP drain. You can end matches more easily by making multiple light vehicles. This wasn't so much the case in CoH2, which tended to quickly run into a stalemate situation with double AT guns shutting down light and medium tanks.
COH I is still the best game so far
Coh mobile for 60$
Lol. What a crap video. “It has all the main things that made Coh1 great, but … I don’t know … I just don’t like it … I don’t know why”
I think he needs to mediate on this one for a few more days.
I don't remember saying it has all the things of CoH 1 I really liked but I may be misremembering that :) It doesn't have the tightly paced campaign or challenging AI in skirmish I remember in the first game.
I guess I should have gone with Why I am a bit disappointed with the game as some people such as yourself seem to think I hate the game, which I honestly don't. I feel it could have been so much more come release and likely due to SEGA it released in a rough state.
If and when the game gets to a better state I will happily make another video talking about how they turned the corner and got this to be a title you could recommend to any fan of RTS games or WW2 games in general.
Sorry the video didn't meet your standards but thanks for taking the time to comment all the same. Have a good weekend Alex.
idk, can you explain why only 2k players playing this game now?
game is great.