The Magic: the Gathering rules iceberg explained (part 2)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 158

  • @peper757
    @peper757 3 ปีที่แล้ว +369

    So, if Mindslaver lets you control an opponent, and removing clothes is a special action… 🤔
    I don’t like this implication.

    • @dubsinthetubs
      @dubsinthetubs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +41

      That means Opposition Agent can also let you have your opponent strip while they're searching their deck, but they can put them back on once they're done

    • @snakeorbreak6258
      @snakeorbreak6258 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Just like mindslaving in real life!

    • @0Whitelottus0
      @0Whitelottus0 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      I don’t know about you guys but I consider this a flavor win

    • @MisterAssasine
      @MisterAssasine 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@dubsinthetubs unfortunately this doesnt work as you cant do an action while you are resolving another action.

    • @CC-hx8gj
      @CC-hx8gj 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      based

  • @vivianm1851
    @vivianm1851 3 ปีที่แล้ว +129

    removing clothing is a special action LOL

  • @CellarDoor-rt8tt
    @CellarDoor-rt8tt 3 ปีที่แล้ว +59

    I want to see if I can make an entire commander deck where the theme is obscure rules interactions and complex math

  • @Zetimenvec
    @Zetimenvec 3 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    As someone who started the process of becoming a judge and then stopped after becoming a rules advisor, I can tell you that from all the judges I've ever spoken to you don't say A-P-N-A-P with the individual letters. It's said as a single word, "Ahp-nap"
    As a side note, about 40% of rules questions you need to know to become a level 1 judge involve things on the 8th layer, and there's always at least one obligatory layers question where they apply 2-4 power-changing effects to a creature and you have to decipher the correct power and toughness. It goes something like this:
    "Jane casts a Crookclaw Transmuter. Its enters the battlefield ability targets itself. In response her opponent Brady casts Douse in Gloom targeting Crookclaw Transmuter. In response to Douse in Gloom, Jane casts Gleam of Resistance targeting Crookclaw Transmuter. Gleam of Resistance resolves. Douse in Gloom resolves. Crookclaw Transmuter's enters the battlefield ability resolves. Which of the following is correct?
    A: Crookclaw Transmuter's power and toughness is 3/4, with 2 damage marked on it, and will die at the end of turn due to state based actions.
    B: Crookclaw Transmuter's power and toughness is 3/4, with 2 damage marked on it.
    C: Crookclaw Transmuter's power and toughness is 4/3, with 2 damage marked on it, and will die at the end of turn due to state based actions.
    D: Crookclaw Transmuter's power and toughness is 4/3, with 2 damage marked on it.
    E: Crookclaw Transmuter's power and toughness is 5/2, with 2 damage marked on it, and will die when state based actions are next checked.
    F: Crookclaw Transmuter's power and toughness is 2/5 with 2 damage marked on it."
    There's also at least 2 "Rule Enforcement Level" questions where they want you to know the appropriate penalties that change based on how competitive the envirionment is supposed to be. And always at least 1 two-headed-giant question.

    • @MistaOppritunity
      @MistaOppritunity 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      That's to be a level 1 judge? How intense is it to be a higher level judge? And how many levels are there?

    • @Zetimenvec
      @Zetimenvec 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@MistaOppritunity Yep. Mind you this was a few years ago, and about half of the questions were easier than these. Some obligatory stacking of "must attack" and "can't attack" conditionals, some questions about recent rules changes (This was when the damage stacking rule was removed, so questions about how much damage an interaction would deal. One player would explain it as the old rules, the other player with the new, and you were given four answers, one to side with each and one that was a blending of them in different ways.) and the one that always made me laugh was the questions about two headed giant, and how to resolve multiple targeting conditionals. I don't know why, but there was always at least one question about two headed giant.
      Back when I did it I think the highest level was 3rd level, but they shortly added a 4th and 5th level afterwards. There already were people who had that sort of command authority to call themselves higher level, but it wasn't like... official. I didn't get that deep into it so I'm not necessarily the most knowledgeable person on the topic. I know there was some restructuring a couple years back that changed the entry process, though. You have to pay to become a judge now I think?

    • @XoIoRouge
      @XoIoRouge 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This is accurate to the test I took as well to become a Lv 1 Judge many years ago. Layers were one of the most frequent questions, and I also had a few REL questions and 2HG questions. However, me and my mentor both said A-P-N-A-P order. I never even thought to say ApNap lol.
      I don't think you have to pay to become a judge; no one would do it. Judges get product from the LGS they're judging at, and if they're higher level, then a stipend to cover travel expenses for the tournament they're judging (ProTour or World Championship, depending on judge level). Judging is very taxing and unpaid, so I really don't want to believe anyone would pay money to be a judge. I'm also not gonna look it up cuz I don't want to be proven wrong. I wanna bask in my ignorance on this... (Very non-judge thing to say lol)

    • @Zetimenvec
      @Zetimenvec 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@XoIoRouge I thought this was the whole hub-ub, where you have to pay now to become a judge as like a buy in, and you get back greater value in the card value. People were pissed and maybe there was enough backlash to not have it go through? I dunno. I'm mostly recalling from social media posts being outraged about the changes.
      Since I wrote my original, though, I've totally given up on magic. It's not part of my life anymore.

    • @XoIoRouge
      @XoIoRouge 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Zetimenvec Oh I apologize for reviving an old thread. Didn't realize your post was 8 months ago. I also didn't consider that the judge would also get card value, and while that makes sense, it still feels like a scam.

  • @rafakruczek5622
    @rafakruczek5622 3 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    19:10 You missed the crucial point of obsoleteness: continous artifacts was turned off when tapped!

  • @jameshill2450
    @jameshill2450 3 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    An addition to the Rabblemaster Phase Change rule:
    If you announce you're passing to combat, and your opponent does correctly stop in your main phase to kill Rabblemaster, that leaves you fully back in your main phase. You're not committed to moving into the attack phase if you want to do something else now, like perhaps play a new Rabblemaster.

  • @garrettgerbil13
    @garrettgerbil13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    This is the Magic the Gathering equivalent of Law School.

  • @MakeVarahHappen
    @MakeVarahHappen 3 ปีที่แล้ว +64

    Ranar is a bit more complex than that. The confusion comes from the fact that Ranar says 'you' and that rest in peace is a replacement effect. This creates the question of who exactly is exiling things that die. If you control the rest in peace but an opponent creates an effect that kills creature do you get the spirit or do you not because it is an opponent's effect? This was answered when the commander came out but in all honesty the rules justification for it is wishy-washy and there's much debate as to why it is the way it is.

    • @jfb-
      @jfb- 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Rana has now ben erratad to make it more clear how exactly these interactions work

    • @MakeVarahHappen
      @MakeVarahHappen 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@jfb- Ranar has been erattaed twice, both functional, because none of them were easy fixes. Very weird.

    • @malikmcdonald6071
      @malikmcdonald6071 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MakeVarahHappen how does it work now?

    • @azerim2039
      @azerim2039 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@malikmcdonald6071 Look up current oracle and rulings, it's quite clear now.

    • @dartholiver
      @dartholiver 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      So it still works? I mean just reading the old text makes me think it works. RIP says "[...], exile it instead", so grammatically that would mean either YOU (the owner of RIP) or THEY. Even if it would read as THEY, the trigger wouldnt change, as long as YOU control RIP. Like each player sacrifices a creature they control, then THEY would individually exile that creature or token by themselves. But if an opponent controls RIP, that opponent will exile whatever enters the graveyard, unless it reads as THEY. xD

  • @robertstevensii4018
    @robertstevensii4018 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    You know you've almost got a handle on the rules of mtg when you start realizing you don't even understand the extent to which you are mucking it up.

  • @set-theory
    @set-theory 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    "Costs get locked in" became surprisingly relevant to me in my MH2 games due to affinity and treasures!

  • @ScreamingSecrets
    @ScreamingSecrets 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I like how in mindlslaver, you can choose which zone their commander ends up.
    Say I take control of my opponents turn. During their turn, I cast swords to plowshares in their commander. I can choose to keep their commander in exile instead of the command zone. And theirs nothing they can do about it

  • @Omenshaper
    @Omenshaper 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I would've put "Pyroblast can target nonblue permanents" and "revealing information about your opponent's hand" somewhere in one of these layers as well

    • @NStripleseven
      @NStripleseven 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Pyroblast is weird, it says it only does something if the target is blue, but it doesn’t specify that it must target something blue.

  • @llovebeats3749
    @llovebeats3749 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    *H&M Productions:* _(some smart shit about mtg)_
    *Chair:* _creeks_

  • @TheOdinsLance
    @TheOdinsLance 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    every time I hear the banding rules a little bit of my brain turns to pudding.

  • @ShinkuDragon
    @ShinkuDragon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    You can also "miss the timing" in magic, albeit in a different way. "May" abilities that happen at specific times are shortcutted if you forget them, so something like "you may scry 1 during your upkeep" will default to "didn't scry" if you remember later

    • @TroxDXLegacy
      @TroxDXLegacy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      That's not what missing the timing in Yugioh does. That's just forgetting to trigger an optional effect (which can also happen in Yugioh)

    • @MistaOppritunity
      @MistaOppritunity 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      ​@@TroxDXLegacy Precisely. Missing the timing is very specific. Basically it can equate to that if a card says "when" instead of "if," anything that happens immediately after the cards conditions are met, but before the effect goes off, prevents the ability from happening because it is no longer "when" it happened. This can happen in a myriad of ways, but one specific example is that a card named Peten the dark clown has an ability that activates WHEN it goes to the graveyard. The card Soul taker destroys an opponents monster THEN that opponent gains 1000 life points. So the sequence of events that would happen are Peten goes to the graveyard, 1000 life points are gained, then Petens ability misses the timing because it was not activated WHEN Peten went to the graveyard. The rule is dumb, and no one likes it.

    • @bradleyhoward9638
      @bradleyhoward9638 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MistaOppritunity the entire game is dumb.

  • @generalgk
    @generalgk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Honestly this and part one are two of my all time favourite Iceberg videos. Great job

  • @MisterAssasine
    @MisterAssasine 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    4 Hourseman: As you can not shortcut it, it can not be considered slow play. Source: CEDH Gitrog primer which also uses a non-deterministic loop

  • @EDoyl
    @EDoyl 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    24:43 one thing I like about the expansion hoser Oracle text is that "cards/permanents with a name originally printed in the *Homelands* expansion" isn't actually referring to the MtG expansion Homelands anymore. The rules no longer know about such real-world commercial history, they're instead referring to the object defined in the rules as "names originally printed in the *Homelands* expansion" which is just an exhaustive list of card names. The expansion doesn't exist, only the list. What does it mean for a card to be originally printed in Homelands? officially, nothing. It is a curiously-named label that is applied to those cards arbitrarily.

  • @Suspinded
    @Suspinded 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    On the Damage Prevention Window : The regeneration window was separate from the damage prevention window. One could only use regeneration effects when a card was "on its way to the graveyard" due to lethal damage or destroy effects.
    Damage Gets Dealt
    Damage Preventioni Window
    Does the creature still have lethal damage? If yes, the Regeneration Window happens to use regenerate effects.
    It's a small detail, but that's what kept someone from attempting Healing Salve when Nevinyrral's Disk was resolving.

  • @evilsheepmaster1744
    @evilsheepmaster1744 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I was a bit confused on how you worded the "Rain of Gore" item and did some research, so I'm case I'm not the only one...:
    "Rain of Gore" causes spells and abilities that cause life gain to cause damage instead. Lifelink causes damage to gain life; Lifelink (the ability) does not gain life, but it modifies the act of dealing damage to also gain life, and since dealing damage is neither a spell nor ability, "Rain of Gore" does not apply.

  • @anthonycannet1305
    @anthonycannet1305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    According to the old rule for those artifact supertypes, Staff of Domination is a monopoly artifact
    And if you give it indestructible (like with dark steel forge) it becomes a continuous monopoly artifact

  • @anthonycannet1305
    @anthonycannet1305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    For anyone confused about the copying a permanent spell makes a token but doesn’t “make a token”, think of it like this:
    When you copy a permanent spell you aren’t directly creating a token, you create a copy of the spell which isn’t yet a permanent on the battlefield, so what you just made isn’t a token, just a copy (which is different from making a token copy, more like when you cast fork). That copy then becomes a token when it resolves but because you didn’t create a token you don’t get any effects that refer to you creating a token.
    A card like twinning staff which increases the number of copies you make would effect it in a similar way as a single token doubler would.(I’m only 90% sure)

    • @macurvello
      @macurvello 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I think the key lies in create vs become. When you copy a permanent spell, the copy BECOMES a token. So you didn't CREATE a token , you "transformed" a copy of a spell into one.

  • @Flayerthehatebound
    @Flayerthehatebound 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    "When creatures form a band" Whats the genre of music?

  • @peterpeterson4800
    @peterpeterson4800 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Continous artifacts also only used to work if the artifact was untapped. That's why there are errata for some old artifacts.

  • @RadicalCreamer
    @RadicalCreamer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    22:25 Its crazy that we all acutally been aware of that rule back in the days of ounslaught-mirrodin goblins

  • @colemanholth3740
    @colemanholth3740 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I actually had the Dark Confidant missed trigger come up at a Legacy Open I played at. At that time the judge ruled that the opponent was able to choose if you got to take that trigger or not. Not sure if that was accurate, but I thought I should bring up that's how the ruling played out there.

    • @bradleyhoward9638
      @bradleyhoward9638 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes because if you had been at low life or no cards in library your opponent would choose for you to draw so you could lose. That's to stop people from trying to cheat by forgetting a trigger that could or would make them lose. Technically you both would also get issued a warning for failing to maintain proper game state.

  • @UrshifuYaoi69
    @UrshifuYaoi69 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    As a long time yugioh player who has started to play commander on the side because i find magic less complex, I got so fucking scared when I saw missing the timing I'm serious. I was so fucking worried I'd have to deal with that shit in two games and magic just called their similar ruling the same as a nod or something

    • @dartholiver
      @dartholiver 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      How is Magic less complex? It is scientifically proven to be more complex than any other game...

    • @UrshifuYaoi69
      @UrshifuYaoi69 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@dartholiver Read up on the the battle phase in yugioh then come back here and say Magic is more complex

  • @catoticneutral
    @catoticneutral 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I have no problem understanding world enchantments since they're basically like the old rules for the Field Spells from Yugioh.

    • @bradleyhoward9638
      @bradleyhoward9638 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I didn't know world enchantments still existed. I thought it was obselete

    • @Omenshaper
      @Omenshaper 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I remember thinking world enchantment was just an old way of saying it was a global enchantment like with mono/poly artifacts, not a separate card type altogether.

    • @catoticneutral
      @catoticneutral 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@bradleyhoward9638 The World card type is still supported in the rules, they just haven't printed new ones. Nowadays, if they wanted to make a card in that niche, they'd probably make it a legendary enchantment instead.

  • @wonkothesane13
    @wonkothesane13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    What part of the Squee vs. Ixalan's Binding ruling is obsolete?

    • @tochoXK3
      @tochoXK3 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      You can‘t cast Squee when it‘s exiled with Ixalan‘s Binding

    • @wonkothesane13
      @wonkothesane13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tochoXK3 I'm asking what changed about the rules to make it no longer work?

    • @sy-py
      @sy-py ปีที่แล้ว

      @@wonkothesane13 There is now an extra check before you propose casting a spell

  • @KindlyAshe
    @KindlyAshe 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    For Shahrazad, you said no effects from the subgame can effect the real game and vice versa. I thought that if you have a wish effect that you cast in your subgame you can grab anycard that is currently in play in the main game because they are considered out of game. so wouldn't that effect the subgame?

    • @smartkaboose3806
      @smartkaboose3806 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      No, because taking a card from your original game is an illegal action. Wish cards say "outside the game", but in tournament settings, this means your sideboard and nowhere else.
      If you're playing kitchen table then the rules don't matter much anyway haha

  • @TroxDXLegacy
    @TroxDXLegacy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Jace vs. Madness is an interaction that gets pretty close to YuGiOh's missing the timing.
    But still not perfect.
    AFAIK, the Madness card gets exiled on discard, but casting it (and putting it on the stack) happens after Jace's ability on the stack has ressolved.
    So at the point when Jace checks the GY, the discarded madness card is still in exile and therefore not in grave.

  • @samueljames8654
    @samueljames8654 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Only interation with layers that I have is when you have a tree of peridation or redemption and you increase its toughness then activate its ability

  • @williamstandifer7015
    @williamstandifer7015 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    interesting that Krark's Thumb and Mana Clash are both illustrated by Ron Spencer

  • @Galva94a
    @Galva94a 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    A great example of abusing the rule at 22:33 is with affinity cards and cromatic star. You can add mana with the star and still count it on the reduction of the affinity card

  • @aidanhsieh7613
    @aidanhsieh7613 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Ranar’s rules text got changed so the Rest In Peace combo doesn’t work anymore

    • @macurvello
      @macurvello 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Is it because a replacement effect is not an ability?

  • @Prinrin
    @Prinrin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Note: On the stifle+animate dead ruling, you described it as having no effect. This is technically wrong; it does actually matter for Reveillark and Nethroi.

    • @danielwappner1035
      @danielwappner1035 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The enchanted card isnt a creature while in the graveyard though. It's power and toughness don't change

  • @catoticneutral
    @catoticneutral 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I can confirm that "missing the timing" is a really stupid rule and it's part of why I quit playing Yugioh.

    • @temporaltomato3021
      @temporaltomato3021 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      I'm convinced that half of Yugioh's dumber rulings arose from some rule shark trying to get out of a sticky situation, and a judge coming over and saying "Makes sense to me".

    • @TempestDacine
      @TempestDacine 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Tbf almost all modern decks don't have that problem but everyone knows its dumb lol

    • @gordo6908
      @gordo6908 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I disagree, the extra deck and missed timing are two of yugiohs best contributions to analog gaming

    • @turtle31415
      @turtle31415 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yugioh has gotten away from "when" effects to more "if" effects, which has largely prevented this from happening anymore. Still sad the entire Yang Zing archetype loses to an MST Chain Link 1

  • @DylanHunter64
    @DylanHunter64 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    For some reason, the idea of there being a permanent with no type is really disturbing.

  • @creepypuppetspresents5605
    @creepypuppetspresents5605 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A concise explanation of "missing the timing" in YGO: "if" triggers check the previous game state; "when" triggers check the last card played. Let's say I cast a sorcery and you counter with an instant. "if a sorcery is cast..." triggers will go off bc a sorcery was activated during the previous stack, while "when a sorcery is cast..." will not , bc the last card played was an instant.
    That's the basics, but for nuance:
    a] mandatory "when" triggers will go off regardless;
    b] "when" triggers will go off if they are instant speed and the controller has priority (trigger abilities are sorcery speed by default in YGO, and start a new stack).
    c] if the "when" trigger is activated by the resolution of the bottom card in the stack, e.g. "when a sorcery resolves..." , it will go off.
    d] tributing for cost is another common source of missing the timing. "When this card is sent to the graveyard..." will go off if sent there by battle, but not if sacrificed for another effect, because the effect is the last thing to happen, not the sending to grave.
    e] there are a handful of cards, e.g. Obelisk the Tormentor, that have a "when" prohibition effect, meaning the very next thing that happens can't be the prohibited thing, but that thing can happen later down the stack. These effects are confusing and tend not to be printed anymore.
    f] in general, "when" effects are used when Konami wants to balance a particularly powerful triggered ability. Otherwise, they just make triggers "if."
    g] in the new rush duel format, the missing timing rule has effectively been abolished, which many players take as a tacit admission that this rule was a mistake.

  • @ram5487
    @ram5487 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Actually I feel that missing the timing isnt nearly as bad as people make it. Most cards with those sorts of triggers use 'if', and the ones with 'when' usually have very powerful effects like special summoning a monster from the deck. Nearly all 'when' triggers are from leaving the field, so the 'when' it there to prevent people from abusing their own effects that sacrifice a monster for a beneficial effect, because the beneficial effect will be the last action that occurred, preventing 'when' effects from activating.
    but yeah there are more graceful ways to do this.

  • @Akition
    @Akition 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    How is the rabblemaster thing in layer 6 o.0 Thats like the most intuitive thing ever and comes up with literally hundreds of effects

  • @anthonycannet1305
    @anthonycannet1305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    My favorite types permanent combo (which I would argue is more known at least to somewhat newer players because the sets were recent) is mutating onto a Theros god. The rules for mutate state that the total mutate stack only has the type line of the top card, which means if the top card isn’t legendary the whole stack isn’t legendary. First have a Theros god become a creature through its own devotion rules, then mutate on top of it with a non-legendary mutation, then lose enough devotion for the god’s ability to stop being a creature. Since the mutate doesn’t say legendary or any other card type besides creature, the mutate stack is not a creature. Although it does retain its creature subtypes so first you need to use a card like ameboid changeling to remove all creature types from a creature, then lose devotion for the mutation and now you have a typeless permanent…

    • @auberry8613
      @auberry8613 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I wonder if the typeline is " " or " - "

    • @sy-py
      @sy-py ปีที่แล้ว +1

      205.3d got you covered. Non-creature (non-Tribal) permanents can't have creature subtypes

    • @anthonycannet1305
      @anthonycannet1305 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sy-py yes, that’s also why tribal is a card type even though it intuitively feels like it should be a super type, like snow or legendary.

  • @erikchupela7074
    @erikchupela7074 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Why is it assumed that you pass through a main phase response 9:10
    That had always confused me

    • @bradleyhoward9638
      @bradleyhoward9638 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The attacking player is shortcutting by going directly to the declare attackers step. It's done all the time. If you try to remove it you're supposed to say that you're doing it in response to going to combat. If you just say I kill it and your opponent says okay and then makes or keeps the token anyway, you can just explain that you're casting the removal before combat. They cannot argue this if they used shortcutting. Don't let anyone try to bully you into saying you did it too late. You should've been more specific initially because they skipped multiple priorities but that's not a big deal. Call a judge and explain that you specified when you were intending to cast it as soon as you realized the opponent assumed it was during combat. As long as you stop them while they're attempting to declare their attackers you're fine.

  • @drillerkiller9
    @drillerkiller9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Notable: Delve now gets around Trinisphere (delving is a way to pay part of the cost, not cost reduction anymore)

  • @sebastiang.8677
    @sebastiang.8677 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I thought I knew quite a lot about magic rules, but there were several interactions that I would have predicted wrongly🤔

  • @CherubEros
    @CherubEros 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    23:52 rules committee changed the rule that if any card that doesn’t belong in the command zone goes to the command zone, it instead goes to where it was supposed to, such as the commander gets exiled, the mutate card goes to exile and commander to command zone

    • @anthonycannet1305
      @anthonycannet1305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Do you have a source? Because I can’t find anything to back that up.
      903.9. A commander may return to the command zone during a Commander game.
      903.9a If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that object was put into that zone since the last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone. This is a state-based action. See rule 704.
      903.9b If a commander would be put into its owner’s hand or library from anywhere, its owner may put it into the command zone instead. This replacement effect may apply more than once to the same event. This is an exception to rule 614.5.
      903.9c If a commander is a melded permanent or a merged permanent and its owner chooses to put it into the command zone using the replacement effect described in rule 903.9b, that permanent and each component representing it that isn’t a commander are put into the appropriate zone, and the card that represents it and is a commander is put into the command zone.
      So 903.9c says that if the player CHOOSES to put the commander into the command zone BECAUSE of rule 903.9b (as in replacing from the hand or library), the other merged or melded cards go to the appropriate zones (being the hand or library depending on why rule 903.9b happened). So in the case of leadership vacuum which does not cause rule 903.9b the melded or merged cards DO go to the command zone with the commander.
      Btw, merge is rule 721 which is putting a card on top or bottom of another permanent and then becomes one permanent, something that currently only happens through the mutate ability (but could happen from something else in the future maybe).
      Checking the rulings on the card Leadership Vacuum also doesn’t say this interaction doesn’t work that way…

    • @CherubEros
      @CherubEros 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@anthonycannet1305 903.9c
      Oh, since it goes straight to the command zone. Then I would check with judges in chat

    • @anthonycannet1305
      @anthonycannet1305 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CherubEros I listed the entire rule and how it doesn’t say leadership vacuum only moves the commander

    • @CherubEros
      @CherubEros 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@anthonycannet1305 @Jem Bennett yeah, I get that.

    • @anthonycannet1305
      @anthonycannet1305 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CherubEros there is no rule directly stating that non-commander cards can’t be put directly into the command zone, only that if the commander is sent to another zone, the attached cards are left in that other zone. So there’s nothing in the rules or rulings about leadership vacuum not working. I would also recommend watching the short videos of weird things you can do in MTG where he showcases a commander deck on MTGO that is based around putting the entire 99 cards into the command zone for no reason using this interaction.

  • @anthonycannet1305
    @anthonycannet1305 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ranar the ever watchful and Rest In Peace doesn’t work that way anymore.
    The way Oracle text and rulings interact as of July 12th 2021: Ranar’s ability will trigger upon exiling a permanent from the battlefield if ANY player controls Rest In Peace AND YOU control the spell or ability that caused the exile. So if you cast murder while Rest In Peace is out, the destroy effect causes the creature to be exiled as Rest In Peace replaces the effect of Murder, and so YOU (having cast murder) just exiled a permanent so your own Ranar triggers. HOWEVER, if you are NOT the one who cast murder (regardless of who controls Rest In Peace) then you did not exile the permanent and your Ranar will not trigger.

  • @movezig5
    @movezig5 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Actually, regarding "Putting non-commanders in the command zone": if you can somehow get Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow into the command zone, you can still use her Command Ninjutsu ability to cast her again, even if she isn't your commander!

  • @CarrubsLP
    @CarrubsLP 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    21:40 : so basically Karn tgc can bring you your opponent's artifacts in the exile?

    • @LizardDude
      @LizardDude 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No, because you don't own them.

  • @NekoValtz
    @NekoValtz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    13:20
    YOU COUNT THE METALS 1, 2, AND 3!!!!
    Thumbs up to the 2 people who will see this comment and understand this.

  • @Masupups
    @Masupups 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm at a tournament searching for tournaments to search for tournaments in... I may use that chance to search for a tournament or something, not too sure.

  • @kingginger3335
    @kingginger3335 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Phasing is no longer an obsolete ruling. New cards have now been printed with the Phasing ability

    • @hughmortyproductions8562
      @hughmortyproductions8562  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      They've brought back "phases out" on a few new cards, but the actual phasing ability, where the creature automatically phases out every other turn is still depreciated.

  • @Jolfgard
    @Jolfgard 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    7:15
    Are devotion actions state based actions? Don't sound like much of a trigger to me.

    • @sy-py
      @sy-py ปีที่แล้ว

      What is a "devotion action"?

  • @MagicYio
    @MagicYio 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Does Animate Dead still give the enchanted creature -1/-0 if the ability gets Stifled?

    • @hughmortyproductions8562
      @hughmortyproductions8562  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      No, because it's a "creature card" while in the graveyard not a creature.

  • @CrucibleOfHate
    @CrucibleOfHate 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I swear to god I'd rather gouge me eardrums than hear neg instead of minus

  • @evanbleu6362
    @evanbleu6362 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    14:44 I don't understand; the last version of Vorinclex (Monstruous Raider) have the same effect as Doubling Season, and it allow us to double the counters of a PW ability, but Doublinfg Season cannot ?

    • @hughmortyproductions8562
      @hughmortyproductions8562  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The effects are similar but not quite the same. Doubling Season specifically says "If *an effect* would put counters on..." and putting loyalty counters on to activate the ability is not an effect, it is a cost.
      Vorinclex just says "If you would put counters on..." so it doesn't care whether it is an effect or a cost. It only cares that you are putting counters on something.

    • @evanbleu6362
      @evanbleu6362 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hughmortyproductions8562 hmm okay, thanks

  • @WontonTV
    @WontonTV 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    15:20 if you could somehow give a Spellskite, say, Ward 3, would that allow you to essentially Mana Leak an opponent's Grizzly Bear?

    • @fieldrequired283
      @fieldrequired283 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Spellskite's ability can technically target any spell, including spells with no targets, but spellkite's ability doesn't actually cause that spell to target.
      Grizzly Bears wouldn't be countered because it still isn't targeting anything, even after the kite ability.

  • @empurress77
    @empurress77 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have played this game from the very beginning. I still can't say i know all the rules. *Cough*layers*cough*
    If anything, having known old rules can occasionally confuse me even more.
    Fortunately, this happens rarely.
    So what i'm saying is: Thank you SO much for doing this iceberg series! Very useful concise explanations. 👍

  • @ih8people
    @ih8people 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Intervening if clauses actually check both before triggering and upon resolution.
    Trinisphere's effect can actually be circumvented. Delve can "reduce" the cost of a spell, but it's not a cost reducer effect -- it merely allows you to pay the total cost with a different resource. The same can be said about phyrexian mana and K'rrik.
    You're wrong about Ranar and RIP interaction, it received an errata when STX was released, but received another one when MH2 was released (they accidentally changed its triggered ability too much). Ranar's triggered ability now says "Whenever one or more cards are put into exile from your hand or a spell or ability you control exiles one or more permanents from the battlefield". Since RIP's replacement effect is a generated by a static ability, Ranar's ability won't trigger, because static abilities have no controllers as they don't use the stack.

  • @drillerkiller9
    @drillerkiller9 ปีที่แล้ว

    For controlling another player, its important that not that you do not become the controller of any of their permanents or spells on the stack, you also make the decisions what happens with those objects.

  • @veme2857
    @veme2857 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    7:44 why would Golgari grave Troll count itself as a creature in the graveyard if 4:57 Squee can be cast from exile as it entered the stack and therefore is no longer in the exile ?

    • @sy-py
      @sy-py ปีที่แล้ว

      " enters the battlefield with [counters]" is a replacement effect. Therefore the counters are determined before GGT enters the battlefield, while it is still in the graveyard. If you cast GGT from the graveyard, it would not count itself as by the time it tries to ETB, it does so from the stack not the graveyard.

  • @Lovuschka
    @Lovuschka 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That Yu-Gi-Oh stuff at 4:24 makes no sense. Both "When" and "If" must be activated per the rules, but below it says again that activation is mandatory "even though they say 'When'" which would only make sense if "When" effects may instead of must be activated.
    And then on the top it says they are optional effects, even though it clearly states in the main text they must be activated.

    • @matthewtaylor2890
      @matthewtaylor2890 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Some when effects are optional in Yu-Gi-Oh and some aren't, the example they give there is White Stone of Legend which can't miss timing due to being mandatory. However optional cards, like Mist Valley Thunderbird (or most Mist Valley cards truth be told, they really got the shaft because if those "when"s) will miss timing if the effect that causes their "when" effect to trigger has an additional effect that occurs afterwards, in Thunderbird's case if I had a card that said "Return one card to its owners, then if you do, destroy one card your opponent controls" Thunderbird's effect couldn't activate because of the destruction part of the effect. It's a super dumb ruling and it doesn't happen much with modern cards unless their trying to limit an effect but yeah.

    • @Lovuschka
      @Lovuschka 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@matthewtaylor2890 Yea, your explanation is better than the rules that were shown.

  • @AsmoAstro
    @AsmoAstro 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    13:20 thank you Richard Garfield

  • @mazerinthemage2395
    @mazerinthemage2395 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Shahrazad is legal in the Old School format :)

  • @drillerkiller9
    @drillerkiller9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Regarding detremental triggers: The decision is always independent of game state. Did you put the card in your deck because or despite the trigger? In the former its beneficial, otherwise detremental

  • @pearl1040
    @pearl1040 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    hey bro, you did a very good job! But about additional land drops, a passage from cranial insertion on Nov.29th told that this rule had been changed recently. I tried on MTGA and that was true. Anyway thank you for making this video. It helps me a lot.
    Edit:oops I find out that orange text was old rules.sorry😳

  • @clon1122
    @clon1122 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My fav weird rule is card memory

  • @Reluxthelegend
    @Reluxthelegend 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    27:35 so it was similar to yugioh's chain? Pretty interesting. (without exception of the damage stuff)

  • @666Metalbassist
    @666Metalbassist 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    this is game is so complicated lol

  • @bastokrepublic
    @bastokrepublic 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    When I saw that Layers is the first topic of the next section, I got scared.

  • @MistaOppritunity
    @MistaOppritunity 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So for the planeswalkers and doubling season one, how does it interact with when a planeswalker ability states you add loyalty counters to it or another planeswalker? Or say if it doubles them?

    • @bradleyhoward9638
      @bradleyhoward9638 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      If it says add counters as part of the ability then it will double them. If another effect also doubles it as a replacement effect, the counters will be doubled twice so effectively 4X. Even if it's not a replacement effect which is what doubling season is, if an effect does say double the counters on target permanent, doubling season will take note of how many are being added and will double that number as a replacement effect. In essence this means if you add 2 counters doubling season changes it to 4. If you double the counters on a creature using Voral of the Hull Clade and that creature has 8 on it to start, doubling season replaces the add 8 more and instead changes it to add 16 more.

  • @ryanfreedman6348
    @ryanfreedman6348 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If I made spellskite a dragon and have a thunder break regent, do I have the option to make any spell deal damage to the opponent?

  • @chibisnarl
    @chibisnarl 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    is there an un-set iceberg?

  • @coach_tae_
    @coach_tae_ 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    When talking about spellskite you said at the end "however the effect will not do anything". Are you referring to Spellskite's effect will not do anything? Or does him changing the target of the spell to him render its effect useless since it no longer has a valid target?

  • @msj1191
    @msj1191 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Missing the timing was possible when batch existed?

  • @aldotrioksidi
    @aldotrioksidi 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    What I'd like to know, if I'd respond with Vampiric Tutor to opponent's Shahrazad, would I still put the same card on top of my library after the Shahrazad subgame ends.

    • @hughmortyproductions8562
      @hughmortyproductions8562  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      When the subgame ends, you shuffle your library. So any card put on top of the library will get shuffled into the deck, just like any other shuffle effect.

    • @aldotrioksidi
      @aldotrioksidi 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hughmortyproductions8562 How disappointing. Not that it would ever happen in a real game.

  • @goteggs73
    @goteggs73 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    how does rain of gore with with exalted angel?

  • @errorhurts665
    @errorhurts665 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Interesting that because it specifically mentions exiling tokens, Rest in Peace works with Ranar to infinitely create tokens where Leyline of the Void and Dauthi Voidwalker don't.

  • @th3giv3r
    @th3giv3r 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you for confirming that what me and my uncle do after church on Sundays is considered a "special action". I thought he was lying

  • @thestormtrooperwhocanaim496
    @thestormtrooperwhocanaim496 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is special

  • @Paul-tr8bk
    @Paul-tr8bk 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I can barely hear you. Turn it up

  • @Raven86_
    @Raven86_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The volume is so low

  • @residentracist3210
    @residentracist3210 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Woohoo part 2

  • @brigui22
    @brigui22 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Detrimental*

  • @bobSeigar
    @bobSeigar 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You can still blink Azusa for an extra 2 land drops. (I run a gitrog deck in historic and frequently do it)

  • @IsaacTreat
    @IsaacTreat 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting video! I have to point out, the word mana is pronounced like mAn-uh, not mOn-uh. That was driving me a little crazy by the end, but I still watched the whole thing!

    • @hughmortyproductions8562
      @hughmortyproductions8562  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Maybe in America, but in Australia the way I say it is the most common pronunciation. It's closer to the original Māori pronunciation too.

    • @IsaacTreat
      @IsaacTreat 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@hughmortyproductions8562 That's interesting! I always thought the source of the word was the Hebrew concept of manna, as in mana from heaven. But it does seem like Richard Garfield was probably influenced by what you referenced! That being said he does pronounce it with a flat A, and he did invent the game! But today I learned. I think I will continue to pronounce it as he does just because I've been doing it for 20 years and it's probably too late to change

    • @ymmijx6061
      @ymmijx6061 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@hughmortyproductions8562 hey, i think(not sure) the extra land drops may have been referring to the fact that when you tutor lands with rampant growth or effects that let you "put a land into play from your hand" they don't actually trigger effects that read "when you play a land" but do trigger landfall abilities.

    • @ymmijx6061
      @ymmijx6061 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@hughmortyproductions8562 or at least that might belong on there somewhere as well

    • @rafakruczek5622
      @rafakruczek5622 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hughmortyproductions8562 An american trying 3 minutes to say it correctly th-cam.com/video/8N_tupPBtWQ/w-d-xo.html