8:22 that was kinda the story of LeBron throughout his first few years (2003-2011). He was just bigger, stronger, faster, and more naturally talented than any other player, and he coasted by on that. He had monster individual seasons but his lack of a consistent jumpshot and a couple other things meant that his playstyle could be exposed over a long playoff series where teams have time to gameplan for him. After being humiliated in the 2011 Finals and still after 8 seasons without a championship, LeBron really went to work. He improved many areas of his game, and essentially became the perfect player. There wasn't a single aspect of basketball he wasn't superb at, and because of all the improvements he made to his game (along with superhuman durability and longevity), LeBron James at age 38 just finished his 20th season averaging more points per game than he did in his peak seasons.
LeBron's True Shooting Percentage isn't bad at all and is better than Kobe's. His efficiency rating is off the charts and only marginally less than Jordan's and that's after some dilution after playing several years in the NBA after his peak athleticism and performance years. I agree 100% with your second paragraph. Not many people are willing to admit that about his game areas of weakness and how he improved.
Yeah, he was definitely not in perfect health as you can see the difference before his injury compared to after. Usually, LeBron performs better in the playoffs and Finals than in the reg season. What happened to AD again? Great defensively but not consistent enough offensively. Lebron should not be better than a 30-year-old AD, but he was in 2023.
Wow coming from 2 people who have no clue what it takes to maintain 20 years of unprecedented sustained greatness what a slap in the face to LeBron to say he never had to work hard to be great. He’s probably the most dedicated athlete in all of sports. Pure Talent only gets people so far
Correction: LeBron is 6'9" and at his heaviest, according to his trainer in Miami, was 270 lbs. LeBron just finished his 20th season at 38 years of age. Only Jordan is better than LeBron. That is an objective fact based on the numbers. LeBron is a superior basketball player to Kobe. That, also, is an objective fact based on the numbers, not fee-fees. If one wants to say Kobe was more attractive when he scored the basket, then okay, fine, but Lebron is the more efficient player. Here's a great argument I found written by a poster on Quora in response to the question: Why is Kobe Bryant better than LeBron? Answer: Uh, yeah. On just a superficial level, the rings argument doesn’t apply. Kobe won three rings as a second banana to Shaq and two rings as the Alpha. LeBron has won three rings as the Alpha of his teams. So while Kobe has more championships, he has led his team to less, because those first three were Shaq’s teams. Nobody’s arguing that Pippen is better than Kobe because Pippen’s six > Kobe’s five, because Pippen was the #2 for all of those rings. Same with Kobe’s first three. From a stat point of view the argument gets even worse. LeBron averages more points per game than Kobe (both regular season and playoffs) and does it more efficiently (missing fewer shots). LeBron is also a better passer, rebounder and defender, so that makes Kobe’s argument pretty weak. But how about their performance in the Finals? Surely, as Kobe is super-clutch, that’s where his dominance will be asserted. Here are some Finals per-game averages Player A: 25.2 points on 24.7 shooting possessions, 5.6 rebounds, 5.1 assists Player B: 28.3 points on 25.7 shooting possessions, 9.8 rebounds, 7.7 assists Pretty obvious who is whom, right? Player B destroys player A on boards and assists, and scores 3.1 points per game more while using only one more shot to do it. Not much of an argument, right? About about individual Finals performances? Let’s consider probably Kobe’s best Finals, the 09 series against the Magic where he averaged 32.4 points (on 30.9 shots), 5.6 rebounds and 7.4 assists. Pretty great right? Compare that with LeBron’s 2012 performance against Oklahoma City, where LeBron averaged 28.6 points (on 25.6 shots) plus 10.2 boards and 7.4 assists. Kind of comparable right? Kobe scored more (though less efficiently) and LeBron averaged almost five more boards per game. I could see a Kobe fan considering the Kobe series as the superior series. What if I told you that the listed LeBron stat line was probably only his fifth best Finals? How about 2015 against the Warriors when he averaged 35.8 (on 37.6 shots), with 13.3 boards and 8.8 assists. Yeah, it was inefficient, but it’s still more than Kobe’s ever scored per game in the Finals. How about 2016 against the Warriors when he averaged 29.7 points (on 26.4 shots) with 11.3 boards and 8.9 assists (and 4.9 steals+blocks)? How about the 2018 Finals against the Warriors when he averaged 34 points (on 27.4 shots - holy heck) with 8.5 boards and 10 assists? How about the 2017 Finals against the Warriors when he averaged 33.6 points (on 26.7 shots) with 12 boards and 10 assists? I’m sorry, Kobe’s best Finals performance simply can’t compete with those. Not even close. But LeBron is a choker, right? What about his 2007 Finals against the Spurs (22 points on 17.6 shots, 7 boards and 6.8 assists). What about his 2011 performance against the Mavericks (17.8 points per game on 18.8 shots, 7.2 boards and 6.8 assists). Neither of those are very impressive lines. But let’s compare with Kobe’s worst two, his 2000 against the Pacers (15.6 points per game on 19 shots, 4.6 rebounds, 4.2 assists) and his 2004 against the Pistons (22.6 points per game on 24.8 shots, 2.8 rebounds and 4.4 assists). I don’t know how you can look at those stat lines and think anything other than that LeBron is the better scorer in the Finals (both more points and more efficient) and clearly the better rebounder and passer. What about Game 7s? Looking at the last five for each player: Points per game: LeBron 34.4, Kobe 21.6 FG%: LeBron 49.1%, Kobe 37.2% +/-: LeBron +44, Kobe +1 Not close. What about buzzer beaters, say, game-tying or go-ahead shots in the final ten seconds of playoff games? LeBron is 6 of 14 on those shots (43%). Kobe is 5 of 22 on those shots (23%). Not an advantage for Kobe there. But let’s say that you’re not convinced. Let’s say that you still think that Kobe does more than LeBron, but in a way that isn’t covered by points, shots, rebounds and assists. How about looking at +/-? Plus-minus just compares how good a team is when a player is on the court compared with when they’re off the court. It’s an imperfect but quick and dirty glance at player value in a more subtle way than the box score stats. Kobe’s Plus-Minus numbers? Only looking at his performance through age 34 (which is good because his last three years are awful), Kobe’s teams are +5.3 (5.3 points above average per game) when he’s on the court and -1.5 when he’s off the court, for a combined plus-minus of +6.8. His best year by this stat was 2009-10 when he put up a +12.4 for the season. Further, he had four different +10 or better seasons (02-03, 05-06, 08-09 and 09-10). Compare this with LeBron (only through age 34). LeBron’s teams have been +7.0 when he’s on the court and -4.4 when he’s off the court, for a total of +11.4 overall. His best season by this measure is 08-09 when he put up a +21.2 (not a misprint; they outscored opponents by 15 points when he was playing, and were outscored by 6.2 when he was sitting). LeBron has nine different seasons above 10 and six above 15. Not a close comparison. LeBron’s teams played better with him than Kobe’s did, but were worse without him. Huge gap. What about the playoffs? You probably already know where this is going . . . Kobe: +8.3 overall, best year 02-03 at +17.4, four different 10+ playoffs LeBron: +10.2 overall, best year 16-17 at +30.7, six different years at 20+ What does that leave? “Sure, LeBron scores more points more efficiently. Sure he’s the better rebounder and passer. Sure he’s been much better in the Finals than Kobe. Sure he’s been much better in Game 7s than Kobe. Sure he’s a better clutch shooter than Kobe (at least in the last ten seconds of playoff games). Sure he’s won more Finals as the #1 on his team than Kobe. And sure, LeBron’s teams are better with LeBron than Kobe’s are with Kobe, but LeBron’s teams are worse when LeBron sits than when Kobe’s teams are when Kobe sits (and we’re just looking at what teams outscore or are outscored with the players on the floor, we’re not looking at individual player stats). Sure, all that points clearly to LeBron. But what Kobe has over LeBron is . . .” What? I’m sorry. There is absolutely nothing coming after that ellipses that should be at all persuasive. The closest you could get is to fill in with “… some media / talking heads act as though Kobe is as good or better than LeBron so it must be true.” That is not a crazy argument. It’s just wrong. As an overall player, LeBron is better than Kobe in pretty much every way. And there’s really not much ambiguity to the argument.
Drafted at 18 out of high school in 2003 as the most significant prospect in NBA history 6'9" 250 LBS 4x Champion and MVPs Won every ring in each team he's been on (Cavaliers, Miami, and Lakers) All-time Scoring Champion 3 Olympic Medals Has more NBA Finals Appearances than Championships lmao The first ever active billionaire in NBA History There's more but I don't feel like typing anymore. You all have Google for a reason lol.
@@gerardbrady273 Jordan could play in this era and still be the greatest player ever and Jordan didn’t quit. He retired in the off-season when his dad got murdered.
@@puncho8799 But he is not the greatest player!! And he quit because he got caught gambling, probably on his team. Then he quit again supposedly to play baseball, which he was horrible at. Then he finally retired after playing with the Wizards. So that is 3 times!!🤦♀️🤦♀️🤡💩
After 20 seasons, Lebron’s trophy case (based on actual trophies commissioned and given out by the NBA): 4 rings, 4 finals MVPs, 4 regular season MVPs, 3 All-star game MVPs, 1 Rookie of the Year, 1 scoring title = 17 trophies + Awards: 1 assist leader, 6 first team all-defensive = 7 Total: 24 After 13 seasons, MJ’s trophy case: 10 scoring titles, 6 rings, 6 finals MVPs, 5 regular season MVPs, 3 all-star game MVPs, 2 dunk contest championships, 1 Defensive Player of the Year, 1 Rookie of the Year = 34 + Awards: 3 steals leader, 9 first team all-defensive = 12 Total: 46
@@50percentnatty oh you seriously don’t know why that makes someone seem extremely…challenged in the head? Well to help out the ppl who know almost nothing about what actually happened in the 80s and 90s, I actually looked up both their numbers in the games they were facing elimination, since MJ was so “dependent” on the greatness of Scottie McPippen to win anything. When they were playing together in an elimination game, Jordan avg 33.2ppg on 55.1% and McPippen avg 15.7ppg on 41.1%. Jordan avg 7.9 rebounds, 2.6 offensive and McPippen avg 8.7 rebounds and 3.1 offensive (way to go McPip!) Jordan avg 7asts, 1.7 stls, and 1.3 blks while McPip avg 4.5 ast, 1.7 stls, and 0.6 blks….but we all know how much he sucked WITHOUT Pip, so what about MJ in 4 elimination games he had to play w/o him? Well, he avg 27.5ppg on 40%, 8 rbs (3 orbs) 8.5 asts, 2.3 stls, 1.8 blks…but obviously since MJ’s the one who always needed McPip to be any good, McPip’s numbers w/o MJ are gonna CRUSH. Well, Scottie played in 6 games facing elimination w/o MJ, but I only counted 5, not his last one bc he was playing only 20min a game off the bench, significantly and unfairly dropping his per game totals. But in those 5 elimination games w/o MJ he avg 15.2ppg on 31.3%, 11 rbs (3.6 orbs), 4.4 asts, 2.0 stls, and 0.4 blks…damn, right away can see MJ dropped from elite all time scoring prowess w Pip, all the way down to really great scorer w pretty good efficiency. And then was better in every. Other. Single. Category. Pippen went from ‘solid across the board’ playing with MJ to a woefully inefficient mediocre scorer who was getting rebounds and that’s. About. It. But, tell me more about how Jordan’s so over hyped for needing one half decent teammate and a barely half decent teammate to win 3peats
@@MrKurtykurtYOU DONT KNOW SHIT BULS WERE FAVOURED 5 OUT OF 6 TIMES BULLS WERE ALMOST ALWAYS BETTER THAN THEIR OPPONENTS. YOU MJ CULTIST DISREGARD THE HELP THAT MJ HAD.MJ PLAYED IN A SYSTEM DESIGNED BY PHIL JACKSON. MJ WON NOTHING WITHOUT PHIL OR PIPPEN FACTS.LEBRON HAD NO SUCH LUCK HIS FIRST 9 YEARS IN CLEVELAND THE CAVS FAILED TO PUT A DECENT ROSTER AROUND HIM SO HE TOOK HIS FUTURE IN HIS HAND AND FORMED A GREAT TEAM IN MIAMI WON TWO CHIPS WENT BACK TO CAVS WON AND WON IN LA. LEBRON WON IN 3 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES. MJ WON IN ONLY ONE WHICH IS MUCH EASIER WHILE PHIL TOOK HIS COACHING STYLE AND WON 5 IN LA.
Lebron is coming up on his 21st year in the league. There is a player in the league who was born AFTER lebron joined the NBA and is now a grown ass man playing against him lmao.
Everybody will have their own opinions and preferences about who is GOAT and tbh they debate it and argue about it all the damn time. LOL! Nobody gets their point across just get more petty and annoying. I’m just freaking grateful to witness MJ, KOBE, and LEBRON in my life. I got to see many greats from different generation play in real time. THEY’RE ALL GOATS TO ME.
you can always go back to college or go for the first time after your career is over. You'd be a much better student than the 18 year old you that was there for one year.
Bro I heard u and the wifey say he was a team hopper...(😌Smh) No sir! I'm from Ohio, Cavs fan my whole life! Bron left to Miami and we were pissed but we welcomed him back! He went on to win us the Chip and went back to the Finals 3 more straight appearances, before finally going to the Lakers! 😁He's worn a great deal of uniforms yes no question about that one but only 3 NBA teams my guy!
@quavogotfame7060 fake people are not what I would consider good people. Dont ever mistaken someone donating to charity as automatically being a good guy/gal. I like and dont like MJ and Lebron for different reasons. They both done some amazing things on court. However, MJ is a jerk and Lebron is fake as they come. Never seen a non politician lie so much.
@@QuavoGotFameright?!! I was going to say..what does this person means by “personality”. Because for the most part LeBron is known to be a really good guy. Maybe when he’s in basketball mode, he can be quite arrogant and expects a lot from his team mates. But that’s freaking common being one of the greatest players in the NBA. You expect high level performance and IQ from your team mates. Maybe the person meant don’t like his opinions and stance in certain social issues and etc. I know a lot of people who don’t agree with Lebron’s opinions. Then there’s those who just love to hate just to hate.😆
@mattwible3734 only the inexperienced would ever believe Lebron is an honest guy. Those of us who have that experience know hes a narcissist and fake enough to be a politician.
He is not 6’6 my guy lol! And also he is not skinnyLOL! He is 6’9 230 ish right now and back in his rookie years but in his Miami days it was told he went up to 260-280 imagine how of a freak he was back then and still is trust me that it not skinny even for a 6’9 all muscle dude!
After 3 minutes and 51 seconds. I had to turn this off. After reading the comments I’m glad I did because it seems to have gotten worse. SMH so much misinformation 😂
Started being skeptical about the commentary quality when lil homie didn't know how long he'd been in the league at the time. Also, referring to rookie LeBron as "skinny" made me raise my eyebrows. Then kid said "he's been on every NBA team. Which is why he's not the GOAT." Yea... I don't know if it's the dumbest commentary I've heard on TH-cam but the fact that I'm even trying to remember if I've heard something dumber is telling. I couldn't click on "don't recommend this channel" more quickly
He is THE GREATEST he only been on 3 teams and won on all of them so 🤷🏿♂️ mj had way easier competition no one in his era is touching kd, giannis, kobe, kawhi, jokic, dirk, Duncan, curry, AD or prime harden
Lebron played for 3 teams thru his career, and youre saying thats the reason hes not the GOAT? lmfao, Messi played soccer for 3 teams aswell, and it doesnt affect the goat status for him, explain to me how does that work lol
LeBron left the loser Cavs after a 7-year stint there with no help. He then went to Miami where he was accused of creating a superteam as though a superteam means much (just watch the Denver Finals series in 2023 to see how a team playing as a unit matters more) at the margin where team unity and specialty is more valuable (who needs two AI's when you need a skilled big man to get out of the second round of the playoffs) than individual talent that doesn't blend effectively into a unified team effort. Also, LeBron won in Cleveland the second time (it would be incorrect to call him a "team hopper" because he chose to go back to Cleveland to "win one for the land.") He could have stayed in Miami and had a better chance of winning than going to Cleveland. Then he went to L.A. He didn't have to go there. He is the only player in NBA history to win a championship on three different franchise teams. Think about that.
20 years. Why should he stay in one team and waste his talents while not getting any help. Going to Miami helped him grow as he came from high school straight into the league. Plus he's leaving allowed Cleveland to acquire Kyrie also a damn good player this was a very good thing . He was arguably a better player after that run more confident a better leader and with more experience. He left again after 2018 with Cleveland's blessings, they were wasting his talents get him the help he needs I don't know how anyone can watch what he did in the Eastern conference in those years and say he's not a GOAT, like what? LeBronto Era come on now. It's more difficult to win championships on different teams than to do it on one are you kidding me in saying he isn't great because of this 🤦🏿♀️ Also he is one of the most hardworking players in the industry first to go to the gym last to leave he has stayed on top through pure grit adding to his natural talents.
@@coryyoung1857Brody watching them react to jordan highlights was boring. Mj did the same layup and barely had any game winning shots. This vid is wayyy better
Since the early 2000's the NBA has become so soft that it is pathetic and only a handful of current NBA players could have survived in the NBA of the 80' and 90's. The only claim to GOAT that LeBron has is the NBA scoring record, but he played his entire career in the "soft" era of the NBA.
@@AMPlyfiedMusiche needs to get his facts straight early 2000s was soft?! There’s malice at the palace in 2004. You’re correct!! It only gotten softer in the mid-late 2010s.
The greatest ever doesn’t need top 10 rebounders of all time and arguably two of the best defenders of all time in Scottie and Rodman, mind you that MJ made de playoffs on a losing record on multiple occasions without Scottie, Rodman, Grant etc. MJ never even won a conference before Phil Jackson and scottie joined the team! Idk who your top 3 players are, but trust me they don’t have a better case than Lebron!
He’s been in the league since 2003
He’s also only been on 3 teams my boy 😭😭
He said lebron has been in the league for 80 years you can’t take what he says seriously
And shaq played on 6 teams so what’s your point?
@@CKCKCK_2306that shaq only got rings in the lakers and no other team and lebron has four rings with three different teams
@@jahmiladjodha5100 so that’s better?
@@jahmiladjodha5100 do some research brotha, shaq won one alongside Dwyane Wade in 06.
8:22 that was kinda the story of LeBron throughout his first few years (2003-2011). He was just bigger, stronger, faster, and more naturally talented than any other player, and he coasted by on that. He had monster individual seasons but his lack of a consistent jumpshot and a couple other things meant that his playstyle could be exposed over a long playoff series where teams have time to gameplan for him.
After being humiliated in the 2011 Finals and still after 8 seasons without a championship, LeBron really went to work. He improved many areas of his game, and essentially became the perfect player. There wasn't a single aspect of basketball he wasn't superb at, and because of all the improvements he made to his game (along with superhuman durability and longevity), LeBron James at age 38 just finished his 20th season averaging more points per game than he did in his peak seasons.
LeBron's True Shooting Percentage isn't bad at all and is better than Kobe's. His efficiency rating is off the charts and only marginally less than Jordan's and that's after some dilution after playing several years in the NBA after his peak athleticism and performance years.
I agree 100% with your second paragraph. Not many people are willing to admit that about his game areas of weakness and how he improved.
Yeah, he was definitely not in perfect health as you can see the difference before his injury compared to after. Usually, LeBron performs better in the playoffs and Finals than in the reg season. What happened to AD again? Great defensively but not consistent enough offensively. Lebron should not be better than a 30-year-old AD, but he was in 2023.
Wow coming from 2 people who have no clue what it takes to maintain 20 years of unprecedented sustained greatness what a slap in the face to LeBron to say he never had to work hard to be great. He’s probably the most dedicated athlete in all of sports. Pure Talent only gets people so far
Lebronze medal James sucks! Worse than Pippen
PIP DID NOT SUCK YOU CLOWN REMEMBER NO PIP NO CHIP
N@@baileyaishanna7065
still pretty good for his age he just averaged 30 and then averaged 29 this year but he’s pretty good 💀jordan fans are so undermining
He’s only been on 3 teams and won a ring on every team?
Lebron is 38 been in the NBA 20 years
Correction: LeBron is 6'9" and at his heaviest, according to his trainer in Miami, was 270 lbs. LeBron just finished his 20th season at 38 years of age. Only Jordan is better than LeBron. That is an objective fact based on the numbers. LeBron is a superior basketball player to Kobe. That, also, is an objective fact based on the numbers, not fee-fees. If one wants to say Kobe was more attractive when he scored the basket, then okay, fine, but Lebron is the more efficient player.
Here's a great argument I found written by a poster on Quora in response to the question: Why is Kobe Bryant better than LeBron?
Answer:
Uh, yeah.
On just a superficial level, the rings argument doesn’t apply. Kobe won three rings as a second banana to Shaq and two rings as the Alpha. LeBron has won three rings as the Alpha of his teams. So while Kobe has more championships, he has led his team to less, because those first three were Shaq’s teams. Nobody’s arguing that Pippen is better than Kobe because Pippen’s six > Kobe’s five, because Pippen was the #2 for all of those rings. Same with Kobe’s first three.
From a stat point of view the argument gets even worse. LeBron averages more points per game than Kobe (both regular season and playoffs) and does it more efficiently (missing fewer shots). LeBron is also a better passer, rebounder and defender, so that makes Kobe’s argument pretty weak.
But how about their performance in the Finals? Surely, as Kobe is super-clutch, that’s where his dominance will be asserted. Here are some Finals per-game averages
Player A: 25.2 points on 24.7 shooting possessions, 5.6 rebounds, 5.1 assists
Player B: 28.3 points on 25.7 shooting possessions, 9.8 rebounds, 7.7 assists
Pretty obvious who is whom, right? Player B destroys player A on boards and assists, and scores 3.1 points per game more while using only one more shot to do it. Not much of an argument, right?
About about individual Finals performances?
Let’s consider probably Kobe’s best Finals, the 09 series against the Magic where he averaged 32.4 points (on 30.9 shots), 5.6 rebounds and 7.4 assists. Pretty great right?
Compare that with LeBron’s 2012 performance against Oklahoma City, where LeBron averaged 28.6 points (on 25.6 shots) plus 10.2 boards and 7.4 assists. Kind of comparable right? Kobe scored more (though less efficiently) and LeBron averaged almost five more boards per game. I could see a Kobe fan considering the Kobe series as the superior series. What if I told you that the listed LeBron stat line was probably only his fifth best Finals?
How about 2015 against the Warriors when he averaged 35.8 (on 37.6 shots), with 13.3 boards and 8.8 assists. Yeah, it was inefficient, but it’s still more than Kobe’s ever scored per game in the Finals.
How about 2016 against the Warriors when he averaged 29.7 points (on 26.4 shots) with 11.3 boards and 8.9 assists (and 4.9 steals+blocks)?
How about the 2018 Finals against the Warriors when he averaged 34 points (on 27.4 shots - holy heck) with 8.5 boards and 10 assists?
How about the 2017 Finals against the Warriors when he averaged 33.6 points (on 26.7 shots) with 12 boards and 10 assists?
I’m sorry, Kobe’s best Finals performance simply can’t compete with those. Not even close.
But LeBron is a choker, right? What about his 2007 Finals against the Spurs (22 points on 17.6 shots, 7 boards and 6.8 assists). What about his 2011 performance against the Mavericks (17.8 points per game on 18.8 shots, 7.2 boards and 6.8 assists). Neither of those are very impressive lines.
But let’s compare with Kobe’s worst two, his 2000 against the Pacers (15.6 points per game on 19 shots, 4.6 rebounds, 4.2 assists) and his 2004 against the Pistons (22.6 points per game on 24.8 shots, 2.8 rebounds and 4.4 assists).
I don’t know how you can look at those stat lines and think anything other than that LeBron is the better scorer in the Finals (both more points and more efficient) and clearly the better rebounder and passer.
What about Game 7s? Looking at the last five for each player:
Points per game: LeBron 34.4, Kobe 21.6
FG%: LeBron 49.1%, Kobe 37.2%
+/-: LeBron +44, Kobe +1
Not close.
What about buzzer beaters, say, game-tying or go-ahead shots in the final ten seconds of playoff games?
LeBron is 6 of 14 on those shots (43%).
Kobe is 5 of 22 on those shots (23%).
Not an advantage for Kobe there.
But let’s say that you’re not convinced. Let’s say that you still think that Kobe does more than LeBron, but in a way that isn’t covered by points, shots, rebounds and assists.
How about looking at +/-? Plus-minus just compares how good a team is when a player is on the court compared with when they’re off the court. It’s an imperfect but quick and dirty glance at player value in a more subtle way than the box score stats.
Kobe’s Plus-Minus numbers? Only looking at his performance through age 34 (which is good because his last three years are awful), Kobe’s teams are +5.3 (5.3 points above average per game) when he’s on the court and -1.5 when he’s off the court, for a combined plus-minus of +6.8. His best year by this stat was 2009-10 when he put up a +12.4 for the season. Further, he had four different +10 or better seasons (02-03, 05-06, 08-09 and 09-10).
Compare this with LeBron (only through age 34). LeBron’s teams have been +7.0 when he’s on the court and -4.4 when he’s off the court, for a total of +11.4 overall. His best season by this measure is 08-09 when he put up a +21.2 (not a misprint; they outscored opponents by 15 points when he was playing, and were outscored by 6.2 when he was sitting). LeBron has nine different seasons above 10 and six above 15.
Not a close comparison. LeBron’s teams played better with him than Kobe’s did, but were worse without him. Huge gap.
What about the playoffs? You probably already know where this is going . . .
Kobe: +8.3 overall, best year 02-03 at +17.4, four different 10+ playoffs
LeBron: +10.2 overall, best year 16-17 at +30.7, six different years at 20+
What does that leave? “Sure, LeBron scores more points more efficiently. Sure he’s the better rebounder and passer. Sure he’s been much better in the Finals than Kobe. Sure he’s been much better in Game 7s than Kobe. Sure he’s a better clutch shooter than Kobe (at least in the last ten seconds of playoff games). Sure he’s won more Finals as the #1 on his team than Kobe. And sure, LeBron’s teams are better with LeBron than Kobe’s are with Kobe, but LeBron’s teams are worse when LeBron sits than when Kobe’s teams are when Kobe sits (and we’re just looking at what teams outscore or are outscored with the players on the floor, we’re not looking at individual player stats). Sure, all that points clearly to LeBron. But what Kobe has over LeBron is . . .”
What? I’m sorry. There is absolutely nothing coming after that ellipses that should be at all persuasive. The closest you could get is to fill in with “… some media / talking heads act as though Kobe is as good or better than LeBron so it must be true.” That is not a crazy argument. It’s just wrong.
As an overall player, LeBron is better than Kobe in pretty much every way. And there’s really not much ambiguity to the argument.
Drafted at 18 out of high school in 2003 as the most significant prospect in NBA history
6'9"
250 LBS
4x Champion and MVPs
Won every ring in each team he's been on (Cavaliers, Miami, and Lakers)
All-time Scoring Champion
3 Olympic Medals
Has more NBA Finals Appearances than Championships lmao
The first ever active billionaire in NBA History
There's more but I don't feel like typing anymore. You all have Google for a reason lol.
he’s been on 3 teams and he’ll fry jordan 💀
couldn't even fry jj barea🤣🤣🤣
He’s going into his 21st year, and still chasing what Jordan did in his 15 year career
@puncho8799 hey genius they play in different eras, the players now are more talented than back when Mj played. Also Mj quit 3 times!!!
@@gerardbrady273 Jordan could play in this era and still be the greatest player ever and Jordan didn’t quit. He retired in the off-season when his dad got murdered.
@@puncho8799 But he is not the greatest player!! And he quit because he got caught gambling, probably on his team. Then he quit again supposedly to play baseball, which he was horrible at. Then he finally retired after playing with the Wizards. So that is 3 times!!🤦♀️🤦♀️🤡💩
After 20 seasons, Lebron’s trophy case (based on actual trophies commissioned and given out by the NBA): 4 rings, 4 finals MVPs, 4 regular season MVPs, 3 All-star game MVPs, 1 Rookie of the Year, 1 scoring title = 17 trophies + Awards: 1 assist leader, 6 first team all-defensive = 7 Total: 24
After 13 seasons, MJ’s trophy case: 10 scoring titles, 6 rings, 6 finals MVPs, 5 regular season MVPs, 3 all-star game MVPs, 2 dunk contest championships, 1 Defensive Player of the Year, 1 Rookie of the Year = 34 + Awards: 3 steals leader, 9 first team all-defensive = 12 Total: 46
mj total without pippen: 0
@@50percentnatty number of people who say that who aren’t 100% r$+@rded: 0
@@MrKurtykurt u proved my point after u insulted me 🤣🤣jorbum
@@50percentnatty oh you seriously don’t know why that makes someone seem extremely…challenged in the head? Well to help out the ppl who know almost nothing about what actually happened in the 80s and 90s, I actually looked up both their numbers in the games they were facing elimination, since MJ was so “dependent” on the greatness of Scottie McPippen to win anything. When they were playing together in an elimination game, Jordan avg 33.2ppg on 55.1% and McPippen avg 15.7ppg on 41.1%. Jordan avg 7.9 rebounds, 2.6 offensive and McPippen avg 8.7 rebounds and 3.1 offensive (way to go McPip!) Jordan avg 7asts, 1.7 stls, and 1.3 blks while McPip avg 4.5 ast, 1.7 stls, and 0.6 blks….but we all know how much he sucked WITHOUT Pip, so what about MJ in 4 elimination games he had to play w/o him? Well, he avg 27.5ppg on 40%, 8 rbs (3 orbs) 8.5 asts, 2.3 stls, 1.8 blks…but obviously since MJ’s the one who always needed McPip to be any good, McPip’s numbers w/o MJ are gonna CRUSH. Well, Scottie played in 6 games facing elimination w/o MJ, but I only counted 5, not his last one bc he was playing only 20min a game off the bench, significantly and unfairly dropping his per game totals. But in those 5 elimination games w/o MJ he avg 15.2ppg on 31.3%, 11 rbs (3.6 orbs), 4.4 asts, 2.0 stls, and 0.4 blks…damn, right away can see MJ dropped from elite all time scoring prowess w Pip, all the way down to really great scorer w pretty good efficiency. And then was better in every. Other. Single. Category. Pippen went from ‘solid across the board’ playing with MJ to a woefully inefficient mediocre scorer who was getting rebounds and that’s. About. It. But, tell me more about how Jordan’s so over hyped for needing one half decent teammate and a barely half decent teammate to win 3peats
@@MrKurtykurtYOU DONT KNOW SHIT BULS WERE FAVOURED 5 OUT OF 6 TIMES BULLS WERE ALMOST ALWAYS BETTER THAN THEIR OPPONENTS. YOU MJ CULTIST DISREGARD THE HELP THAT MJ HAD.MJ PLAYED IN A SYSTEM DESIGNED BY PHIL JACKSON. MJ WON NOTHING WITHOUT PHIL OR PIPPEN FACTS.LEBRON HAD NO SUCH LUCK HIS FIRST 9 YEARS IN CLEVELAND THE CAVS FAILED TO PUT A DECENT ROSTER AROUND HIM SO HE TOOK HIS FUTURE IN HIS HAND AND FORMED A GREAT TEAM IN MIAMI WON TWO CHIPS WENT BACK TO CAVS WON AND WON IN LA. LEBRON WON IN 3 DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES. MJ WON IN ONLY ONE WHICH IS MUCH EASIER WHILE PHIL TOOK HIS COACHING STYLE AND WON 5 IN LA.
u know the goat debate is serious when the comments are like this. Jordan and Lebron are the best
Shaq was on six teams and he’s a legend
Been in the league since 03 and only been on 3 teams and brought them all rings
2003 with Cleveland than free agent went to the heat and after 4 years went home again and went to LA. 20 years later still in the league
21 years in nba LeBron James 🐐
LeBron has been on only 3 teams.....
Yes he has natural God given abilities but he works on his game every single day!......he is in his 21st season.
Should react to his sons Bryce and bronny both are great hoopers as well
Dis LBJ 21 yrs n da Nbs n hrs my GOAT n he won a ring wit all 3 teams he’s been onn lakers , heat n cavs 👑🐐💛💜
Lebron is coming up on his 21st year in the league. There is a player in the league who was born AFTER lebron joined the NBA and is now a grown ass man playing against him lmao.
He’s been in the league for I think 30 years
LeBron is listed at 6’9
Jordan is the one and only goat 🐐 LeBron has been playing going into his 21st year, and he’s still chasing what Jordan did in only 15 years
Facts but to lebrons credit he’s been at the top of the league for an extremely long time definitely top 3 all time
And he was in the league for 20 years
Everybody will have their own opinions and preferences about who is GOAT and tbh they debate it and argue about it all the damn time. LOL! Nobody gets their point across just get more petty and annoying.
I’m just freaking grateful to witness MJ, KOBE, and LEBRON in my life. I got to see many greats from different generation play in real time. THEY’RE ALL GOATS TO ME.
Lebron the best EVER💯
Ohh and he was drafted in 2003 and his first game was in 2003. So that’s 20 years my dude. LOL!
Bro said every nba team and it’s only be 3 lol
Been on 3 teams but he’s also gotten those three teams championship wins, also you kinda look like Larry bird
Actually he is the goat he got every championship with 4 different franchises 💯
20 years in the league
20. Years
you can always go back to college or go for the first time after your career is over. You'd be a much better student than the 18 year old you that was there for one year.
Bro I heard u and the wifey say he was a team hopper...(😌Smh) No sir! I'm from Ohio, Cavs fan my whole life! Bron left to Miami and we were pissed but we welcomed him back! He went on to win us the Chip and went back to the Finals 3 more straight appearances, before finally going to the Lakers! 😁He's worn a great deal of uniforms yes no question about that one but only 3 NBA teams my guy!
One of the most talented players in NBA history. Not my favorite due to his personality but he is insanely talented.
You realize lebron a good guy right lol?
@quavogotfame7060 fake people are not what I would consider good people. Dont ever mistaken someone donating to charity as automatically being a good guy/gal. I like and dont like MJ and Lebron for different reasons. They both done some amazing things on court. However, MJ is a jerk and Lebron is fake as they come. Never seen a non politician lie so much.
@@QuavoGotFameright?!! I was going to say..what does this person means by “personality”. Because for the most part LeBron is known to be a really good guy. Maybe when he’s in basketball mode, he can be quite arrogant and expects a lot from his team mates. But that’s freaking common being one of the greatest players in the NBA. You expect high level performance and IQ from your team mates. Maybe the person meant don’t like his opinions and stance in certain social issues and etc. I know a lot of people who don’t agree with Lebron’s opinions. Then there’s those who just love to hate just to hate.😆
@@SaGeForRealbro lebron is so clearly a narcissist
@mattwible3734 only the inexperienced would ever believe Lebron is an honest guy. Those of us who have that experience know hes a narcissist and fake enough to be a politician.
He is the team, any team he's been on are automatic title contenders
I wouldn't go that far.
@@coryyoung1857 you're a casual.
@@officialdownload4 yeah ok whatever u think. Ur just a fangirl
@@coryyoung1857 is that all you can say ? Grow up 😂
@@officialdownload4 I've been grown can't help u get butt hurt being called a fangirl
Mj is 🐐
Lebron is 6’9
21 years
Winning with chips with different teams is way harder, that makes him the goat, casuals..
3 teams in 20 years is not every team bro lol
didn’t know 3 teams was the whole nba?
Jordan-Wizards
Heat Lebron was different
He is not 6’6 my guy lol! And also he is not skinnyLOL! He is 6’9 230 ish right now and back in his rookie years but in his Miami days it was told he went up to 260-280 imagine how of a freak he was back then and still is trust me that it not skinny even for a 6’9 all muscle dude!
You a lowkey Bron hater 😭 but you his biggest fan at the same time 🤷♂️😂
He’s still blocking shi year 20💀🤣💯
After 3 minutes and 51 seconds. I had to turn this off. After reading the comments I’m glad I did because it seems to have gotten worse. SMH so much misinformation 😂
Don’t diss my glorious king James like that again lebron is the goat and only been on 3teams
Started being skeptical about the commentary quality when lil homie didn't know how long he'd been in the league at the time. Also, referring to rookie LeBron as "skinny" made me raise my eyebrows.
Then kid said "he's been on every NBA team. Which is why he's not the GOAT."
Yea... I don't know if it's the dumbest commentary I've heard on TH-cam but the fact that I'm even trying to remember if I've heard something dumber is telling. I couldn't click on "don't recommend this channel" more quickly
You hate on him and getting his stats and size wrong…True definition of a hater
He is THE GREATEST he only been on 3 teams and won on all of them so 🤷🏿♂️ mj had way easier competition no one in his era is touching kd, giannis, kobe, kawhi, jokic, dirk, Duncan, curry, AD or prime harden
Lol, Dude I keep seeing men show their girls highlights of Jordan and LeBron 😅. Yo girl is picking her lips 😆 🤣
😂switched to 3 teams in 21 years, 🤣I mean we get it
Dudes played for 3 teams lol i guess jordan a team hopper also then cuz he played for 2 teams lmao
Goat 🐐
This year would be his 22nd year but at the u watching it’s probably 19 or 20
He's 6'9 275 bro......look it up...
He 250
Lebron is y’all he is 6’8-6’9
Lebron played for 3 teams thru his career, and youre saying thats the reason hes not the GOAT? lmfao, Messi played soccer for 3 teams aswell, and it doesnt affect the goat status for him, explain to me how does that work lol
I bet this guy only watches highlights and thinks he knows things
LeBron left the loser Cavs after a 7-year stint there with no help. He then went to Miami where he was accused of creating a superteam as though a superteam means much (just watch the Denver Finals series in 2023 to see how a team playing as a unit matters more) at the margin where team unity and specialty is more valuable (who needs two AI's when you need a skilled big man to get out of the second round of the playoffs) than individual talent that doesn't blend effectively into a unified team effort. Also, LeBron won in Cleveland the second time (it would be incorrect to call him a "team hopper" because he chose to go back to Cleveland to "win one for the land.") He could have stayed in Miami and had a better chance of winning than going to Cleveland. Then he went to L.A. He didn't have to go there. He is the only player in NBA history to win a championship on three different franchise teams. Think about that.
Jordan/Bird 1a/1b
I know y'all react to Basketball I know this but man react to the boring films videos start with Muhammad Ali or Sonny Liston
My bad tall
take a healthy bird over bron any day of the week
20 years. Why should he stay in one team and waste his talents while not getting any help. Going to Miami helped him grow as he came from high school straight into the league. Plus he's leaving allowed Cleveland to acquire Kyrie also a damn good player this was a very good thing . He was arguably a better player after that run more confident a better leader and with more experience. He left again after 2018 with Cleveland's blessings, they were wasting his talents get him the help he needs I don't know how anyone can watch what he did in the Eastern conference in those years and say he's not a GOAT, like what? LeBronto Era come on now.
It's more difficult to win championships on different teams than to do it on one are you kidding me in saying he isn't great because of this 🤦🏿♀️
Also he is one of the most hardworking players in the industry first to go to the gym last to leave he has stayed on top through pure grit adding to his natural talents.
Really d goat?
140th
Didn’t watch the video, just came to write that Jordan is the GOAT 😂😂😂!
damn right he's the goat and this is coming from a guy that was born when MJ won his 6th ring
I sat through it and it's kinda boring. Jordan's highlight mix tape is 1000x better!
It's basically the same dunk over and over
@@coryyoung1857Brody watching them react to jordan highlights was boring. Mj did the same layup and barely had any game winning shots. This vid is wayyy better
@@pass_me_d_blunt1298 smoke another blunt. You're way too high to know that you're talking about. 😆
Between current and former players, there’s at least 350 players that will always be better than LaFlop
Hell no
Lebron is great but he isnt better than prime shaq. And prime shaq isnt number 2 all time
20
Is not the goat if you know his career
MICHAEL "AIR-WIND" JORDUNK S D ONLY GOAT N D NBA HISTORY!!!!
Just here to say Lebronze medal James makes me sick🤮
Preach 🙌🏻
AND WHO ARE?
Click bait! Jordan is the GOAT!
His highlights are so boring 😅 maybe I shouldn't have watched Micheal Jordan's mixtape first and then watching this 😅 lol
Since the early 2000's the NBA has become so soft that it is pathetic and only a handful of current NBA players could have survived in the NBA of the 80' and 90's. The only claim to GOAT that LeBron has is the NBA scoring record, but he played his entire career in the "soft" era of the NBA.
The rules didn’t change until like 2019. Early 2000s was NOT weak or soft.
@@AMPlyfiedMusiche needs to get his facts straight early 2000s was soft?! There’s malice at the palace in 2004. You’re correct!! It only gotten softer in the mid-late 2010s.
Janitors and math teachers. Expansion.
Hahaha Michael Jordan. Is the goat not LeBron 😂😂😂😂 LeBron join many team to get a champ MJ still in the bulls but 6 rings
Washington?
I love how a bunch of gen z kids in the comments crown Jordan the goat 😂
Including the guy making this video lol
she seemed a lot more impressed with the real "GOAT" Michael Jordan. I can't say that I blame her
Tf
The Greatest ever doesn't LOSE championships.....Bron ain't even the 2nd or 3rd best ever....
Let me guess your goat is Jordan and Kobe💀
The greatest ever doesn’t need top 10 rebounders of all time and arguably two of the best defenders of all time in Scottie and Rodman, mind you that MJ made de playoffs on a losing record on multiple occasions without Scottie, Rodman, Grant etc. MJ never even won a conference before Phil Jackson and scottie joined the team! Idk who your top 3 players are, but trust me they don’t have a better case than Lebron!