They missed the main reason aug is bad in pugs, it's that in pugs one of the dps will die to a boss or big pack, and then you wipe or waste several minutes with 1.5 dps dead.
This is in no way the reason why Aug is bad. It means the other players are making mistakes and that's not something an Aug can fix. Aug requires too much knowledge for cds with your team and in a pug there's no synergy for the most part. Lacking communication is huge. Mainly in keys above 10s. Just makes things so much more difficult but that's the chance pugs are taking. It's why m plus is broken because 1 fail when people just want points is bricked. Penalized so hard for things out of your personal control unless it's yourself making mistakes.
If you can’t get invited to keys in dev you’re doing something wrong. I mained dev all of DF, my main rn is a boomy, I honestly find it harder to get invited as boomy
@@liamdavies2823 yeh because for the past 2 weeks it's full melee meta. Before that, boomies were invited far more than they are now. Tbh, it's pretty hard to get invited in any 13+ key as any spec other than enha/frost/assa/Ppala/disc. That's because all the non-meta specs are the key-holders and they definitely want an enha shamman plus another meta dps spec. A guildmate created a shamman the week ele was "busted" (like 3 weeks ago?) and in 2 days he went from 2.5k score to 3.1k score while he was only 625 ilvl (and the rest of us were 631-633) just because he was an enha shamman. This is insane!
I wanna say thanks for making this video. I play aug, but I had group with two other people who just always went to "Aug isnt great" when the reality was that we did not have a full team to utilize Aug properly. I am now playing with people who are a full group and now my experience is wildly different. Your analysis of being social as a point of progression is so true! Getting a team is the best thing!
I know that his perspective will be a lot different than a 13-14 key player like myself but i'm finding that the accountability thing to be the opposite. Augs are generally viewed as being easy even in higher keys bc no one knows what the fuck they do. Tanks and healers see these ultra high key streams where dps are doing 2+ mil maybe even 3 and automatically assume that any dps should be able to do this with aug, regardless of routing and complain about throughput endlessly when a key fails. I have yet to see an aug get blamed in chat after a key unless the uptime on EM and pre is absurdly low.
Aug isn't my main but I rerolled to one for my key group. I'm 6 ilvls lower than lizzie and only have a few weeks of exp and my uptimes are just as good as his and I'm not even tracking shifting sands or Momentum Shift. I also have 3k less mastery than him so he should have an easier time keeping buff uptime. The problem with guys like this is their massive egos get in the way of real genuine answers. High M+ is always go to take skill because you still need to do mechanics and use defensives + have good group coordination regardless of what spec/class you play but these guys tend to over exaggerate the complexity of certain things as it makes it sound harder than it is. Someone who plays 50 hours a week like him and his group do don't have the humility to come out and say " yeah aug is pretty easy to play for the most part" because that wouldn't feed into the narrative in his mind that he is on some other level when the reality is he just degens the game and so does his M+ team. So much of their self worth and ego gets wrapped up into their rating because it's what they spend 80% of their time doing. His raid logs aren't that great. I know 2700 IO evokers who have the same prog but 20% higher parses in raid both on best preferred average/ median average than he does and they play the game 1/10th of the time he does.
@@guhudaa Lol not going to go in depth into discussion this low level and unnecessarily hateful. I'll just say that you're not evaluating augs correctly at all, and that log rankings are a complete joke and have been since conception.
I was in a key today where the tank did weird, uncommon pulls which caused my buff uptime to be not-perfect. I was blamed by the other evoker for being a bad Aug because my EM uptime was only about 55-60%. Like what. Some people are just bigots having bad days I guess...
One takeaway from this vod is I think I am at a point need to start networking and finding more serious people to play with. I dont like pugging so only run with a group group who arent as serious as I would like to become. Timing 11s and starting 12s so hitting that wall. I play with folks that roll tons of alts and keep regearing new chars... meanwhile I'm over 200 keys ran this season on just my MW.. only 2700 IO. Healer anxiety is real though lol.
as a tip, if you dont wanna burn the bridges with your current group, establish a "team keys" day or two for yourself. i'm playing with all sorts of friends of all skill levels casually for fun and for weeklies, but every Wednesday night, and later in the season either Saturday or Sunday afternoon, i set time aside to only play with my M+ team to push for title. and the other friends that don't play at the same level know that during team keys we will prefer pugging high io players if we are missing people instead of taking them. and it's nothing personal and perfectly acceptable. ;) this way you can stay friends and still play with your friends you built so far, but can also go for your high key ambitions.
This was a great watch. I’d love to see if you can get Meteos on the podcast, I feel like feral Druid is underrepresented in keys so would love to hear you discuss it with the rank 1 feral
To be blatantly honest, people level so fast or just boost that they’re not learning the class until they’re in keys. For example, I picked retail back up a few weeks ago playing Boomy before 11.0.5. It wasn’t until about 3 days ago and finally making my own weak aura pack that I realized some of the class infrastructure that I wasn’t taking advantage off. I’ve got certain things down to the second on when they need to be cast now and have a much stronger understand of really how to get the most out of the class. I was doing keys before and averaging decent dps. Now that I’ve taken the time to do this I’m on average anywhere between 200-500k higher dps. I started playing my monk again that was 70. Got to 80 realized I was tired of looking at an orc and wanted a night elf mistweaver. While I was leveling back through really trying to understand the talents I was taking. I decided to build my own spec and now at cap compared that to the bis spec you see posted everywhere. I was actually pretty close in making it myself. Few of the things I had wrong we’re definitely flavored for leveling though. I’ve started looking at Aug now and probably won’t play that class until I think I’ve got a fundamental understand of the intricacies.
@@xepher1s Aug especially. Can't perform well as Aug if others are terrible. Better off playing something where your personal performance isn't reliant on others like Augs is.
@@lidrane3793 not really a concern in high keys, it's already expected people know what to do both mechanically and rotationally so it's safe. obviously doesn't apply to weeklies and below. wouldn't play aug myself there
@@xepher1s What do you consider as high keys? I'm in +14 bracket, I only pug, I need to time SV, GB and NW on +14 to be done with this key level and there are A LOT of people who play bad. Probably myself included. I feel like taking aug is unnecessary risk. Even Kess admitted that he can immediately tell the difference between his group and a pug. Obviously he's playing with top players but I feel like without proper comms, taking aug is just rolling the dice for no reason.
In this episode of comments, all the expert aug evokers come out of the woodworks to prove the #2 aug evoker wrong. Love it. Reminds me of youtuber pilots in comments vs actual fighter pilots.
Lotro captain main here. The reason i said that is because the augmentation evoker is similar to a captain. The augmentation evoker is a SUPPORT spec. It contributes to the dps of the group by buffing the groups DPS so they do more damage and lessen the burden of the healers and tanks. Which is why i love being a Captain 😀
Aug evoker gets so much hate because its been meta for 4 seasons in a row. And by being the only DPS that actually buffs Healers and Tanks, even if the Aug sucks and does no DPS the survivability it provides just from that fells really impactful. So Aug will always get hate untill it stops buffing the healer and the tank. And I am one of those that does not like Aug for that, and wish that Ebon Might would buff DPS only.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of casual group leaders recruiting for their very serious, very important +3, have Noxxic open on the side to check which classes to invite.
I had a hunter ask me if I was okay looking at dps meter I told him you must be new first time seeing an aug. He apologized for flaming and didn’t know there’s dps spec that just there boost them up
People don't hate aug because of the DPS, my friend; people hate aug because it's hard enough to get into a group as a DPS when there are 3 spots, and if aug automatically takes 1, then everyone is going to hate on it. It's bad class design that no other spec can cover.
@@scottadavis8086 You missed the point, It does shrink the composition possibilities, which leave out some specs out that could cover some supporting aspects
It's a crap dps that automatically gives extremely boring buffs and (at least was true in dragonflight) is a dps loss for the grp. Also part of the hate was the fact that it was super powerful whilst being exceptionally easy to play, like BM. Also boring AF to play.
@@ironsideeve2955 I love this argument: Aug is supposedly an easy spec to play, yet somehow I constantly hear about people encountering terrible aug players. How can they play such a simple spec so poorly? Not to mention the ignorance in discussions about how aug’s buffs are ‘boring’ and the playstyle is ‘dull.’ Right, as if preferences don’t exist, and for some people, it might actually be an interesting, engaging, and fun playstyle
regarding the "how to get the most damage out of evoker in groups" I'm sad he missed the point, as quazii wasnt exacly asking how to play augmentation evoker in keys, but how should other damage dealers play around the augmentation to deal the best damage they can, if there's some sort of planning or conversation happening to line up big spells or if they just do their rotation as normally and simply tagging along the evoker and him adapting to the party. I did main Augmentation in S3 of Dragonflight and although I wasnt pushing very high keys, Breath of Eons never lasted enough during my parties CDs to proc the damage part, so i just did the reverse and used it when they didnt have CDs so we could have more damage overall. In my groups that's how i played at least... Reached 3k IO if it serves as anything
Let’s be real “someone told me this” is the biggest plague in wow it’s been that way since 2004 people just don’t do research and believe everything someone else told them. It’s sad. Yes i have also run into this doing 3k on Aug since release I don’t push title but I’ve ran into this a lot.
True but Aug is just a difficult spec don’t understand the value it brings compared to the specs. Even people that research logs and study this stuff can’t give definitive answers on certain thing related to aug.
@@supdevan6413 it brings a lot of survivability to the team as well as buffing main stat, zephyr: reduces aoe dmg, provides tank shield, offheals, provides 2 knockups, 1 knock back, aoe stun with breathe of eons if talented, rescue bubbles, breathe of eons provides shield on expiration and double dmg, aoe root, bleed dispel, poison dispel, interupt, heroism. So buffing the players to do more damage with prescience, ebon might, and breathe of eons, makes up for the supposed lack of dmg from the Aug evoker in return for all the utility brought to the group. The synergy between player cooldowns and having the buffs benefits both but not being buffed during the dps cooldowns or whenever the buffs are up is where being good at Aug falls off. You need to know where the big pulls are and tracking player cooldowns to make the damage boosting portion of Aug reliable and useful.
If VOD reviews are the dividing line, the next obvious question is how much uninterruptible time investment is necessary to push the highest keys? There’s homework keys (that are still high), VOD review that takes as long as the key, extensive research to find new things to take advantage of, networking in and out of game, making sure your UI is effective and updated… not to mention the uncommon perspective of a well-adjusted personality to avoid being blacklisted by other high key pushers. No wonder people hit a brick wall and complain. They don’t even consider all this stuff or don’t realize the time needed or have such insecurities that they get in their own way. The most casual complainers don’t even set seasonal goals and have no desire to interact with people full stop. I’m not sure what makes some introverts locked down while others have been using wow to make friends for years.
I think the problem with Aug is no matter how much you explain Aug, you can't explain away the issue of people feeling like 1 DPS slot is locked for a single spec since it came out. People hate seeing something at the top for so long and will always call for blood. The issue for Aug is until its out of the meta people will hate the spec since they feel like it's locking them out of M+, like any other meta spec would.
@whatthecrit For sure meta is always going to form. My point is more that aug has been meta for over 2 years, this creates resentment from other specs and creates the bad feelings. Also a spec being meta for so long trickles down further and further for auto invites even if it's not ideal outside of high keys since people hear that it is so powerful over and over.
@@jakeparkbench1425 Agreed, an unfortunate human condition. Hilariously the game is super balanced currently and most combinations of classes/specs can complete title keys but people only want the specs in WF keys which is 3 teams and limits the specs to a max of 15 possible even if all 3 teams played zero duplicates.
@@jakeparkbench1425 Maybe players shouldnt cry about a problem they create upon themselves. "Need aug +2" being a ridiculous example of what the community does.
@@jakeparkbench1425 The only season in which Augmentation Evoker was overpowered and even required was season 2. After that? No. The fact that top keys are/were done with an Aug doesn’t matter because there’s always a locked DPS spot, which affects the community's perception. This, in turn, makes it so that specs have always been 'locked.' If you played off-meta, it didn’t matter whether aug was in the game or not, you wouldn’t get a slot in Mythic+
Augg-Wyrmrestaccord Picked up Aug first time in TWW...to date 4/8 mythic and top 20% m10. It is the first Nuance spec....I honestly fee it should be ITS OWN CLASS not a spec. It is a Redmage from FF....people still dont understand it...had someone ask me today why I was doing 300k dps on Heroic Queen (details) If you can adapt to pugs then you will, if you are meant to work with a D20 5 man party than than you will.
A complete fotm group and Aug has been in it since it's conception. We have an Aug in our group too, it's like a night and day difference in difficulty when he is not available. There are no other classes/specs that can do what it can, that's why people hate it, not for it's perceived lack of damage. Blizzard make a huge mistake every time they bring in something new, by making it so OP that they have to continually nerf it for a very long time, another reason for the hate. It also has a high skill ceiling to be at it's most effective, probably the biggest reason for the hate lol. IF there was another alternative, then the players would calm down a little but there isn't anything else that can do what it does and that's the crux of it.
The reason why aug is hated is because its a locked in class whole season despite other dps classes. Delete aug and the meta would be much healtier and a lot more classes wouls be taken in to the groups.
I havent watched the whole video, but i had a question about details that I'm super confused about it. My ebon might uptime (self) is generally around 72-75 while everyone else's is 66ish. Ive had it drop as low as 58 when I had 72 on myself. What does this mean and how do I make their ebon might uptime higher?
Another great example as to why the game should be designed around pugs and not organized play. The point about toxicity in the game and augvokers being blamed simply exists because the game is overly meta driven to the point of some classes being unplayable and the cost of bricking a key being too high incentivizing the toxicity. These did not happen in a vacuum, it is mainly because of game design features like key depletion, numerical imbalances, overdesign of dungeons in combination with frontal bugs and affixed like challenger's peril. These things only make sense in an MDI setting and actually may even make it more exciting, but not for pugs, they simply breed blame and toxicity. The unwillingness of high end players to criticize the game design and call for community behavioural changes is just delusional to me. The are too ingrained and invested in the game to have a birds eye view of what needs to change.
You can shout for them to de-metatize the design all you want, but the hard truth is the players do that shit to themselves. The devs have gone a long way to make the game more casual friendly, but at the end of the day there will always be players that find the most optimal way to play, and the mass of players that don’t want to spend a ton of time figuring everything out themselves. So they look up a guide and follow what the guide tells them is the ‘best’ way. That will always be in every game. I’m not saying the devs are perfect, but they can’t make players not find the optimal options.
"Another great example as to why the game should be designed around pugs and not organized play." The first being that this is supposed to be MMO not MOBA.
@@mvcfitz33 You assume that The solution is complete de-metazation when it is not. I agree with you that the playerbase will find ways to optimally play the game regardless of what the Devs try to do. The problem is not guides as much is how completely inaccessible it is for the average person to swap to the meta Spec. Gearing up is already a huge process and the solution the high end players found around it is to have an army of alts that do weekly 10s and Mythic raid week 1 in order to gear them up and be ready to swap to what is meta. This is simply put, turbo ass design. FF allows you to simply swap class whenever you want and it should be the case with wow IF they want the game to continue being meta driven. I have a friend who quit week6 because he liked Shadow Priest and could not get invites. High end players would tell him to swap class or GTFO, he instead chose to play other games. The question is: Is this correct? Should you be locked out of content because you cant swap? Should you have to wait 45 minutes in LFG for a 10 because you play Fire mage? Should you NEED to find a guild or a push team if you want to play? Why is this the case? What can be done?
@@Ennar people have been pugin since 2004 in general chat homie cope harder. people shouldnt have an edge bc you and 4 friends are jobless in a basment
The real reason Aug is so dominant at the moment is two fold. Ebon Might and Blistering scales/stops. Most pair with paly which is squishiest tank so blistering scales helps their weakness and paly's dmg profile makes up for Augs weakness. And what most people fail to understand is that ebon might is massive on 625 item level and only good at 605 item level. The multiplicative scaling is crazy as you stack higher and higher secondary stats/main stat. Especially when paired with lust windows which high end groups take advantage of how time efficient getting 25-35% enemy forces is during a lust window on a 15.
@@xepher1s Respectfully disagree. Scales is something like 12k in my group and that's nothing to laugh at. There's not a single tank spec that wouldn't jump at a 10% buff to their armor. And yes paly is the squishiest out of the "meta" big 3. Unless you're saying their interrupts count towards their tankiness then maybe i'd agree. Add to the fact that paly's ints cause more white hits and my point only gets stronger.
@@jonlane6527 1. there is armor dr - most tanks already increase their armor via their abilities (bone shield, demon spikes, etc) 2. theres no big 3 meta tanks, theres realistically only ppal which is absolutely not squishy, and theres pwar which doesnt care about the armor either
@@xepher1s You're splitting hairs and you know it. After watching your Wake clear first pull the fact that it requires an immunity cd to do while both bear and war can do it without how can you argue? And while yes paly is fotm which is well deserved druid has 2nd highest run at the moment and his group is very off meta with zero externals. And again not a single tank main will turn down a free 10-15% armor talent on their tree regardless of what you're saying. If you'd like to continue arguing record a damage taken WITH scales and one without and I'll be proven right 100% of the time.
@jonlane6527 it doesn't require an immunity, it's just done because that tool is available and keeps mobs in place. blistering scales matter so little, you literally have kess in this video suggest to put it on the healer in eg mists maze, a place where the tank gets trucked by guardians and double pulls left and right. ara Kara last boss area trash similar with the birds, healer gets scales, while the tank gets clapped. you have no idea what you're talking about and are feelycrafting
We need podcast with any monk main, state of monk is in shambles, monk needs some exposure, maybe again blizz will take a look at how bad this class is in m+
People having to play well in order for aug to be good is kinda sad. To me it's very clear that blizzard tried to invent a spec that is played by people that enjoy amplifying others, but are stressed out by the idea of playing healer or dps. Because there are already very supportitive dps like ret paladin, but may be very daunting for some people to pick up. Maybe we should be glad that blizzard funnelled this idea into a new spec instead of sprinkling into existing dps. Imagine the endless discussions about "please give up 20% of your dmg and pick the group support talent".
Wow had been a worse game since aug came out. It really would help the game to remove it. Blizzard can hardly balance a game without them, its been a disaster since. If they are not going to so this they need to change the game completely. Add a support role, make m+ 6 people and add other support classes. Of course they wont do this.
Would be great if more people playing Aug would actually learn how to play it because for pug groups they need to be left out. When I see some Aug players doing 1 mil overall and then see someone in a pug 13 doing 350k overall. You just can't time it. There's a huge skill gap.
Doing +11 & below keys I would say Aug are the worst class to take, it's so rare you get one that hasn't been boosted because people think they're meta. From S3 DF to now I've been in groups with maybe 3/4 good Aug's the rest have been awful
The real problem with aug is how ez it is to play. I started a aug was doing 10 keys at 580 ilvl, never died did a lot of damage. Now pushing 14's its pretty much the same. He keep saying u need to play it well whenever all u have to do it push buttons and blame the dps
I’m sorry, I know you probably mean source of magic but listing font of magic as utility made me laugh😂oooh an extra rank for my empowered spells!! That will help everyone!! Sorry🤣
MDI is proof of the aug comps being less DPS. Also with RWF where they opted to not play Aug on ST fights and said it's because of the throughput specifically.
MDI is a completly different ballgame, it's a different sport then pushing high live keys. Why do you think resto druid was played? Literally the only thing that matters in MDI is damage.
Maybe so, but that is the MDI where people have a server to practice all the pulls thousands of times. In a live key the survivability it gives the party is way more dps than any dps could feasibly bring. Was M+ only a dps-check we would only see frost dks
This seems like you misunderstand what Aug does, Max said in his analysis of the tier that they elected to change from Aug to Dev because Aug amplifies the peaks of other players, so in fights like Broodtwister, they are absolutely broken. In fights like Sikran/Ky'veza, however, they are just like normal dps. Since it requires more coordination/preparation to play an aug, they elected to just play Dev on those fights, since there was a small difference in damage, but a big difference in complexity (being Dev favoured)
@@ivanlindh Yes exactly. MDI is all about damage and in that tournament nobody played an Aug because it's less DPS. That is proving the point of Aug comps having less DPS.
Its not just about having 2 good dps, if your tank & healer arent capable to deal with both mechanics & doing their best to dps, its a value loss there too, & thats very clear to see in pug groups. The aug main stat buff, crowd control in openers, are supposed to help with healing & tanking ,allowing for more room to deal dmg in these roles(or pull bigger/faster) and most pugs arent used to this and dont take full advantage of it Ps: thats also why i feel the value on healers such as monk & disc priest is insane in terms of dps/hps
The way I like to explain is: if your group needs a brez Aug evoker tends to be bad. This summarizes the fact the other tools are not prepared enough for the key, and they won't do their job (either for skills, equipment, latency, bad hardware, bad addons setup, etc). Doesn't matter the reason. In the end of the day, if anyone dies, your performance goes down as well.
So in short aug is bad because most people don't know how to measure their strength, as they enhances the healer, tank and dps, plus utilities. The only thing they could see is the group total dps done, see if in general is there increase or not .
I do 14/15 in pug. I don't want an aug in my group for two reasons when they are not needed for tank survival -They need to play perfectly which is hard withotu vocals -They amplify our fails, as anyone I am not perfect, when I fuck up I would rather have someone picking up the slack
@@GHdn I have listened and nothing of what he said change it. Aug shine with good player, Aug is skill dependent. No one plays like a robot, odds is the aug wont play optimally without vocal. Now what happen when you add people failing here and there on top of an aug not being optimal? You loose a lot of dps (Utility is insane though). You can't expect people to be perfect with no communication, people fail all the time in 14/15 Whiile havin three dps can save your key when the fail is minor
@@Elpsyth Even in high key pug, aug is not different from any other class. Also, voice matters at this level. Beside skills, the truth is that a lot of knowledge is required to analyse performance of the aug class whereas for other class you only need to watch dps w.r.t. your words. Some title rank players do not even know of the class work and decide if the aug is good or not based on a buff uptime on Details. Imo, the thing will be fixed if we are able to measure as precisely as a dps number the performance of an aug in game e.g. on Details. Sadly, most of players are apes...
People look at this invisible meter to see if the aug is good or bad because that's how the game is designed. That's how every spec is designed. How do you tell if a mage or warlock is doing well? Sure they can have good interrupts, stops, defensives etc, but if it looks like they're doing 2/3 the damage of other DPS specs, they would be "bad DPS" as well. The problem is it's entirely not clear what exactly the aug is doing, if they're doing it well, and what other specs have an equivalent kit.
I think you may be evaluating peoples performance incorrectly. You needed to open a log even before aug was added, and dps is a misleading metric in keys because it bakes in a bunch of external factors like route, deaths, and is negatively influenced by any attention to more important things like interrupts and stops or communication.
@kel1770 At the end of the day you can stop every ability possible and communicate perfectly but if the mobs and bosses don't die before the timer is up you fail the key. Point being, damage is king. You won't see Yoda or any of these top players playing with people who have "better communication" if they aren't playing the best dps classes for the season at a very high level.
What my issue is with aug is that as a dps i dont want to rely on anyone but myself for my dps. If my dps is lower then it should because an aug messed up. I just rather dont have them
You still have no idea how augvokers work. Aug gives you versa, aug gives you 7% of their main stat. So if they mess up, the worst thing that can happen is you dont get these buffs. They don't magically take your dps away
Lmao. Yes, let's pretend the role as DPS isn't already 100% depending on the Tank first and the Healer second. Best of luck pewpewing in any competitive mode without them babysitting your scrawny bum. 🤣 Aguvoker makes you hit harder if you've the brain enough to take advantage of him, however the majority of (PuG) playerbase are clueless and hate for the sake of hating. As a tank I'll always ditch one of my dpsers for an aguvoker.
My issue, as someone playing aug the first time this season, I have no fucking idea if I'm doing well or not and I don't fully understand where I can improve.
Im mostly a tank player but every season i have an alt meta dps. RN shaman is not my thing, DK is kinda meh+overrated+feels laggy for some reason so im playing Aug, enjoying it alot tbh, love to watch Kess's streams. For me its giga cringe that i cant see my performance straight away, have to (a) log and (b) deep analyze it (c) not only mine but others ppl aswell. As tank aug is OP must have imho, feels so much easier tanking with it. I think they should rework Aug - it must not give main stat but flat damage % (so it doesnt buff tanking so much), remove armor component from scales, remove healer buff, so it becomes a DPS slot and not just 3rd required player. Also pug Augs below 3100 are mostly giga cringe, they do nothing in dungeon, they press def CDs badly etc, but its not only Aug problem, low rio mages are same low lvl cringers mostly.
Accountability. I love how people just blame people straight away. Sayin theres no healing yet they are a warlock for example and doesnt use shield, heals or even their own lock rocks. stupid
this guy doesn’t get it. aug is hated because it locks 1/3 dps slots to a support spec that you need a degree to determine if it’s being played correctly. it sucks.
98% of the players out there dont need an aug in their keys. Just because its very good in the highest keys doesnt mean you need it in your 12s or whatever
i know that im not best by my spec (currently around 40/world spec rank) but if i go dung with aug its imposible for me time same key as with 2 other dps...i think aug just dont work well with arms war :D so i usualy need to avoid them if i try to push.. i think you need rly meta dps with aug then i believe its still so strong...
Meta specs don't mean shit if people can't play them properly. Unfortunately most people swap to Meta classes to pug and it never works out. If you can't be top 100 in logs of your fav class/class you play the best with you shouldn't bother chasing the Meta. Also the Aug evoker you ran with might have been good, I see more bad evokers than good ones. Especially when I pug into someone else's key for gear or crest farm. The only way to be sure to get a good one is to screen them from logs and R-io.
@@jethrodark2372 problem is even if arms play perfectly, it deal max 70% dmg of decent enha or smth in boss fight in m+ :D so if you pick just decent enha it works way better with aug then arms or other "bad tier" class
This guy trying to act like you need to do calculus to keep buff uptimes high on aug. I rerolled to aug 2 weeks ago to push keys and just got to 631 ilvl. So 6 ilvls lower than him and less optimized stats and only 2 weeks of experience. I wasn't even tracking shifting sands uptime or momentum shift AT ALL and my uptimes are just as good as his granted I'm only doing 14/15s. Shifting sands uptime pretty much just works itself out because you give shifting sands to a random player( prefers dps) when you use an empowered ability. You have 2 empowered abilities. Said empowered abilities also extend the duration of Ebon might. If you press Ebon might you pretty much want to then use your empowered abilities on CD as long as Ebon Might is up because A. Upheavel does quite a bit of your damage+ has a knockup. B Extends the duration of your Ebon Might by 2 seconds. The only time you aren't ripping empowered abilities on CD is when EB is not active or when a pack is close to death and you're going to waste shifting sands AND Ebon might uptime which in that case you just hold for the next pack. Not hard or complicated to execute or understand. This spec is one of the easiest specs in the game to play. He also doesn't seem to get that people " hate on Aug" because it's been meta since it came out and has been absurdly busted in certain seasons not because " low dps on details." It's pretty much been " aug takes up a dps slot" since it was released. So an easy AF spec that has been meta since it was released that takes up a dps spot( most common role in the game) is going to be an easy hate target. It's not rocket science.
I got into aug a couple weeks ago, and I really enjoy the spec... but even when I'm at 70%+ uptime on Ebon Might its almost NEVER my top damaging ability. This is disheartening. Maybe I should play Dev or just reroll...
Ya I only play aug when I'm with the boys, I tried in pugs and it's horrible I just stay pres because I can at least heal stupid players and keep them from dying.
As a healer, I hope they buff aug. Having them around makes my life better in every way in keys. With healing the average pug being as trash tier of an experience as it is I'm done playing nice.
Aug will forever be shit in pugs even in high keys. They wont sync cds with other dps, they die a lot more, other dps also die which makes aug worse because u not only lose the dps of the guy that died but the buff that the evoker wouldve given him as well, these things combined make the pulls last longer which also means ur tank can die etc etc. In good premade groups aug is definitely insanely good but in any other case you're better off without an aug.
My only problem with Aug is it killed any viabilty of the other 2 Evoker specs. I heal as Pres and can't get into keys because people just simply don't know what Pres does and always mistake it with Aug. Evokers have simultaneously been called Augs and it's pissing me off. Everytime they change something about Evokers, recent being the rescue root removal, Blizz's moves only take Augs into consideration meanwhile the other 2 suffers because of it. The meme about shamans being the stepchild Blizz don't want to care about.. That's Dev and Pres for the past 2 years.
The reason people don't like to take Pres is cause they don't like the positional requirements. If the group is spread out a little bit they seem to really struggle to heal.
@@VDHmain That’s just entitlement on the DPS’s part. There are so many mechanics that become easier if the group stacks together, like baiting swirlies both in Tirna and Ara-Kara. Just because Blizz gave you 40yrds, you don’t have to stand at 40yrds every time.
@@KiraTheKhanivore Oh definitely, I don't mean to blame the prevokers. I'm only a 2750 tanks and I can't count how many times I've asked ranged to stay close so they can get in the dk's AMZ or the Disc's Barrier or be close enough so the aug can buff both of them instead of one dps and the tank; and that's my own group with comms XD. So imagine pugs. They won't admit they're the issue, they'll blame pres and not invite them.
Let me preface by saying i like having an Aug in my group. Firstly because i selfishly take all the credit for my added DPS and it makes me feel good :), but also because it makes our pulls feel more steady and controlled. To be fair i mostly play with the same 3-4 people and we just pug one or two DPS, so our group is somewhat closely knit. What I'm not a fan of is the idea that an AUG is only as good as it's group, meaning if an AUG is bad it's because of external factors such as bad DPS. I myself struggle to determine if a AUG is good or bad by looking at details and logs, but having run the same dungeon with the same group but different AUGs i can notice the differences. My question to the AUGs out there is, what should i as a DPS (or tank/healer) in a PUG do differently when paired with an AUG? Help me understand you.
The dps just have to do good damage and interrupt well. Healers and tanks have way less to do with the output. Heals and tanks are enabled by aug while the aug’s input is directly affected by the dps.
I don’t picks Aug because no one knows what they fuck they do and they can’t be held accountable, Unlike other roles. Obviously meta in a team with in high keys but pugging no thanks.
lmao let me just buff this enha who is 50% ahead of every other dps and then say aug is neck and neck with frostdk what a jokester. Only reason aug puts up those numbers is because for some godforsaken reason enha is still not nerfed
One of the biggest reasons why theres so much aug hate is that, historically, augs can get away with blaming the rest of the party instead of being able to accurately determine where to improve. "Well your damage is my damage so its not my fault" kinda talk. Well sometimes, it IS your fault, just like sometimes its my fault. It becomes very difficult to identify the problem when youre only looking at details, in app, at the end of a key. I'm far from a perfect player, but I have tools available to help me improve. Aug doesnt really have any of that. Their log hooks are still broken, details reports are dubious, and all your other resources revolve around what other people say rather than anything definite. Augs are disconnected from that immediate feedback loop of looking down and being like "yep im doing good" or "woop im doing not so good." So there are like hundreds of augs just flying around these keys not knowing which way is up because aug requires so much more passion and outside work than everyone else
log hooks are in a decent state and barely broken. and no, aug is not disconnected from that immediate feedback loop as its blatantly obvious when you fucked up and lost EM.
For the dopes saying its coz they are half a DPS. The reason aug feels bad in lower keys is because stuff dies too fast. It is also because in pug for a key under 8 it is a crap shoot if your dps known their class or not. The amount of times i invite some 2700 rating dps and they pull lower than tank dps (not pally tank dps, i mean proper tank dps around 300K-400K on aoe). Or people who just have no clue in general how to do a ST rotation or AOE rotation, so you are boosting, protecting an buffing someone who has no clue. Same with healers or tanks. Just everyone in lower keys is a crap shoot when you play aug, you are hoping the stars align and they know their class/spec enough to get even 70% of what their toon can out put. Which is why if i play on my aug i make sure the two dps i get at least know what they are doing. Healer and tank are nice but if i am Aug i NEED to know my dps can do their rotation under pressure, that is the core most important thing when playing Aug in lower key pugs. But that is also why i don't invite them in lower keys also. Some of them just play aug to get the invite and think it will get them an auto-invite. But no. I am not inviting a aug unless i know them or trust them. Had way too many Augs who after looking at logs have horrible uptime and were clearly not hitting their rotation properly. They also never hit their Zeph, never hit any utility, don't cleanse at all certainly bleeds, never hit rescue and so on. There are just so many things they can just not do to make them a liability. An aug to be worth bringing in my eyes has to be excited to hit their utility instead of only just pressing their dps up buttons.
I think the solution for the aug hate is to just nerf fury again
i iknow your jking(i hope) but this is blizzs thought process it seems the last 4 seasons lol
what about feral
@@Bobulousjr At least feral has lots of utility.
good start, but we should also consider buffing mages again.
💯
They missed the main reason aug is bad in pugs, it's that in pugs one of the dps will die to a boss or big pack, and then you wipe or waste several minutes with 1.5 dps dead.
Bro, People shouldnt die even w/o Aug and if u dont have any CR´s left for that moment, u aint time/make it anyway :D
This is in no way the reason why Aug is bad. It means the other players are making mistakes and that's not something an Aug can fix. Aug requires too much knowledge for cds with your team and in a pug there's no synergy for the most part. Lacking communication is huge. Mainly in keys above 10s. Just makes things so much more difficult but that's the chance pugs are taking. It's why m plus is broken because 1 fail when people just want points is bricked. Penalized so hard for things out of your personal control unless it's yourself making mistakes.
people hate aug because thy have to try and avoid doing that lmao
@@Real_Gron what ? 😂
That' doesn't even make sense. Go sit in the corner till you can figure out how math works
I’ve watched this start to finish three times. Easily the most informative episode so far.
glad you enjoyed it
Great interview as always
Real strenght is that it gets invited to keys #ripdev
If you can’t get invited to keys in dev you’re doing something wrong. I mained dev all of DF, my main rn is a boomy, I honestly find it harder to get invited as boomy
@@liamdavies2823 yeh because for the past 2 weeks it's full melee meta. Before that, boomies were invited far more than they are now. Tbh, it's pretty hard to get invited in any 13+ key as any spec other than enha/frost/assa/Ppala/disc. That's because all the non-meta specs are the key-holders and they definitely want an enha shamman plus another meta dps spec. A guildmate created a shamman the week ele was "busted" (like 3 weeks ago?) and in 2 days he went from 2.5k score to 3.1k score while he was only 625 ilvl (and the rest of us were 631-633) just because he was an enha shamman. This is insane!
You don't get invited even as Aug tho. Because pugs are monkeys
My 3k rio dev doesnt even get invited to 13s what you talking about.@@liamdavies2823
Listen at 1.2 spd. Perfect
I wanna say thanks for making this video. I play aug, but I had group with two other people who just always went to "Aug isnt great" when the reality was that we did not have a full team to utilize Aug properly. I am now playing with people who are a full group and now my experience is wildly different. Your analysis of being social as a point of progression is so true! Getting a team is the best thing!
I know that his perspective will be a lot different than a 13-14 key player like myself but i'm finding that the accountability thing to be the opposite. Augs are generally viewed as being easy even in higher keys bc no one knows what the fuck they do. Tanks and healers see these ultra high key streams where dps are doing 2+ mil maybe even 3 and automatically assume that any dps should be able to do this with aug, regardless of routing and complain about throughput endlessly when a key fails. I have yet to see an aug get blamed in chat after a key unless the uptime on EM and pre is absurdly low.
I play aug. We get blamed. Lol. Not a lot. Not like the old days when you blamed the healer lol
Aug isn't my main but I rerolled to one for my key group. I'm 6 ilvls lower than lizzie and only have a few weeks of exp and my uptimes are just as good as his and I'm not even tracking shifting sands or Momentum Shift. I also have 3k less mastery than him so he should have an easier time keeping buff uptime.
The problem with guys like this is their massive egos get in the way of real genuine answers. High M+ is always go to take skill because you still need to do mechanics and use defensives + have good group coordination regardless of what spec/class you play but these guys tend to over exaggerate the complexity of certain things as it makes it sound harder than it is. Someone who plays 50 hours a week like him and his group do don't have the humility to come out and say " yeah aug is pretty easy to play for the most part" because that wouldn't feed into the narrative in his mind that he is on some other level when the reality is he just degens the game and so does his M+ team. So much of their self worth and ego gets wrapped up into their rating because it's what they spend 80% of their time doing.
His raid logs aren't that great. I know 2700 IO evokers who have the same prog but 20% higher parses in raid both on best preferred average/ median average than he does and they play the game 1/10th of the time he does.
@@guhudaa Lol not going to go in depth into discussion this low level and unnecessarily hateful. I'll just say that you're not evaluating augs correctly at all, and that log rankings are a complete joke and have been since conception.
@@lilbaby9547 yeah raid logs don't matter at all.....LOL. Found the AOTC shitter who is hard stuck in 12s on the a top 3 easiest dps spec in the game.
I was in a key today where the tank did weird, uncommon pulls which caused my buff uptime to be not-perfect. I was blamed by the other evoker for being a bad Aug because my EM uptime was only about 55-60%. Like what. Some people are just bigots having bad days I guess...
Kess still owes me a key from s3 DF he and yoda joined my 28 fall and kess was tanking and inted they key 😭
Enjoyable interview! Great info, context and outlook/advice.
One takeaway from this vod is I think I am at a point need to start networking and finding more serious people to play with. I dont like pugging so only run with a group group who arent as serious as I would like to become. Timing 11s and starting 12s so hitting that wall. I play with folks that roll tons of alts and keep regearing new chars... meanwhile I'm over 200 keys ran this season on just my MW.. only 2700 IO. Healer anxiety is real though lol.
as a tip, if you dont wanna burn the bridges with your current group, establish a "team keys" day or two for yourself. i'm playing with all sorts of friends of all skill levels casually for fun and for weeklies, but every Wednesday night, and later in the season either Saturday or Sunday afternoon, i set time aside to only play with my M+ team to push for title.
and the other friends that don't play at the same level know that during team keys we will prefer pugging high io players if we are missing people instead of taking them. and it's nothing personal and perfectly acceptable. ;)
this way you can stay friends and still play with your friends you built so far, but can also go for your high key ambitions.
Need an Aug? I’m really wanting to find a group too.
@@noobdruid3805 haha sorry but we are already 6 :P
This was a great watch.
I’d love to see if you can get Meteos on the podcast, I feel like feral Druid is underrepresented in keys so would love to hear you discuss it with the rank 1 feral
Wait, Meteos the former League pro?
@@ItsTheBibbyyeah
Right thats so crazy hes amazing on the dive @ItsTheBibby
Quazzi, you are a great interviewer and podcaster!
This was amazing! There’s a lot of unnecessary Aug hate - thank you for highlighting augs. Also great interview with Kess!
To be blatantly honest, people level so fast or just boost that they’re not learning the class until they’re in keys.
For example, I picked retail back up a few weeks ago playing Boomy before 11.0.5. It wasn’t until about 3 days ago and finally making my own weak aura pack that I realized some of the class infrastructure that I wasn’t taking advantage off. I’ve got certain things down to the second on when they need to be cast now and have a much stronger understand of really how to get the most out of the class. I was doing keys before and averaging decent dps. Now that I’ve taken the time to do this I’m on average anywhere between 200-500k higher dps.
I started playing my monk again that was 70. Got to 80 realized I was tired of looking at an orc and wanted a night elf mistweaver. While I was leveling back through really trying to understand the talents I was taking. I decided to build my own spec and now at cap compared that to the bis spec you see posted everywhere. I was actually pretty close in making it myself. Few of the things I had wrong we’re definitely flavored for leveling though.
I’ve started looking at Aug now and probably won’t play that class until I think I’ve got a fundamental understand of the intricacies.
Great interview, ty.
i just love the system behind aug its something still new even after 2 years.
i hope they still get some love
If there's one thing that I learned from this podcast it's that I should avoid augs in pugs xd
Yep. Too many ppl not playing well.
@@anneu3068 naturally this applies to every single spec so the point is moot
@@xepher1s Aug especially. Can't perform well as Aug if others are terrible. Better off playing something where your personal performance isn't reliant on others like Augs is.
@@lidrane3793 not really a concern in high keys, it's already expected people know what to do both mechanically and rotationally so it's safe. obviously doesn't apply to weeklies and below. wouldn't play aug myself there
@@xepher1s What do you consider as high keys? I'm in +14 bracket, I only pug, I need to time SV, GB and NW on +14 to be done with this key level and there are A LOT of people who play bad. Probably myself included. I feel like taking aug is unnecessary risk. Even Kess admitted that he can immediately tell the difference between his group and a pug. Obviously he's playing with top players but I feel like without proper comms, taking aug is just rolling the dice for no reason.
In this episode of comments, all the expert aug evokers come out of the woodworks to prove the #2 aug evoker wrong. Love it. Reminds me of youtuber pilots in comments vs actual fighter pilots.
Great episode!
Lotro captain main here. The reason i said that is because the augmentation evoker is similar to a captain. The augmentation evoker is a SUPPORT spec. It contributes to the dps of the group by buffing the groups DPS so they do more damage and lessen the burden of the healers and tanks. Which is why i love being a Captain 😀
Someone has gotta protect the Dev Evokers too.
Aug evoker gets so much hate because its been meta for 4 seasons in a row. And by being the only DPS that actually buffs Healers and Tanks, even if the Aug sucks and does no DPS the survivability it provides just from that fells really impactful.
So Aug will always get hate untill it stops buffing the healer and the tank. And I am one of those that does not like Aug for that, and wish that Ebon Might would buff DPS only.
An interview with Fragrance would be amazing
Great interview I have to admit.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of casual group leaders recruiting for their very serious, very important +3, have Noxxic open on the side to check which classes to invite.
LMFAO yes
I had a hunter ask me if I was okay looking at dps meter
I told him you must be new first time seeing an aug.
He apologized for flaming and didn’t know there’s dps spec that just there boost them up
It’s real power is the power of friendship.
Definitely the kind of player i want to hear, and not because he plays Aug but because the way he thinks!
Thank you
People don't hate aug because of the DPS, my friend; people hate aug because it's hard enough to get into a group as a DPS when there are 3 spots, and if aug automatically takes 1, then everyone is going to hate on it. It's bad class design that no other spec can cover.
Ppl don’t need to “cover” for Aug. they are a support spec for a reason. They are taken in higher keys for a reason. Stop hating
@@scottadavis8086The problem is the perception, not the actual reality. If people perceive it as op, it doesn't matter.
@@scottadavis8086 You missed the point, It does shrink the composition possibilities, which leave out some specs out that could cover some supporting aspects
It's a crap dps that automatically gives extremely boring buffs and (at least was true in dragonflight) is a dps loss for the grp.
Also part of the hate was the fact that it was super powerful whilst being exceptionally easy to play, like BM. Also boring AF to play.
@@ironsideeve2955 I love this argument: Aug is supposedly an easy spec to play, yet somehow I constantly hear about people encountering terrible aug players. How can they play such a simple spec so poorly?
Not to mention the ignorance in discussions about how aug’s buffs are ‘boring’ and the playstyle is ‘dull.’ Right, as if preferences don’t exist, and for some people, it might actually be an interesting, engaging, and fun playstyle
Great content
Would love you making a video about the momentum in keys, with cds usages and the importance of getting value for cds.
The same way a shaman can swap earth shield if they take the 5% reduc talent, swapping the scales makes sense
The more i listen to Quazii on each of these videos the more my respect grows for this man, i love this and really enjoy hearing these weekly!
Generally people are so fast to dump any player for the smallest mistakes, regardless of class.
Kess was an awesome guest
Good job Kess!
He is so Canadian! I love it!
regarding the "how to get the most damage out of evoker in groups" I'm sad he missed the point, as quazii wasnt exacly asking how to play augmentation evoker in keys, but how should other damage dealers play around the augmentation to deal the best damage they can, if there's some sort of planning or conversation happening to line up big spells or if they just do their rotation as normally and simply tagging along the evoker and him adapting to the party. I did main Augmentation in S3 of Dragonflight and although I wasnt pushing very high keys, Breath of Eons never lasted enough during my parties CDs to proc the damage part, so i just did the reverse and used it when they didnt have CDs so we could have more damage overall. In my groups that's how i played at least... Reached 3k IO if it serves as anything
Let’s be real “someone told me this” is the biggest plague in wow it’s been that way since 2004 people just don’t do research and believe everything someone else told them. It’s sad. Yes i have also run into this doing 3k on Aug since release I don’t push title but I’ve ran into this a lot.
True but Aug is just a difficult spec don’t understand the value it brings compared to the specs. Even people that research logs and study this stuff can’t give definitive answers on certain thing related to aug.
@@supdevan6413 it brings a lot of survivability to the team as well as buffing main stat, zephyr: reduces aoe dmg, provides tank shield, offheals, provides 2 knockups, 1 knock back, aoe stun with breathe of eons if talented, rescue bubbles, breathe of eons provides shield on expiration and double dmg, aoe root, bleed dispel, poison dispel, interupt, heroism. So buffing the players to do more damage with prescience, ebon might, and breathe of eons, makes up for the supposed lack of dmg from the Aug evoker in return for all the utility brought to the group. The synergy between player cooldowns and having the buffs benefits both but not being buffed during the dps cooldowns or whenever the buffs are up is where being good at Aug falls off. You need to know where the big pulls are and tracking player cooldowns to make the damage boosting portion of Aug reliable and useful.
If VOD reviews are the dividing line, the next obvious question is how much uninterruptible time investment is necessary to push the highest keys? There’s homework keys (that are still high), VOD review that takes as long as the key, extensive research to find new things to take advantage of, networking in and out of game, making sure your UI is effective and updated… not to mention the uncommon perspective of a well-adjusted personality to avoid being blacklisted by other high key pushers. No wonder people hit a brick wall and complain. They don’t even consider all this stuff or don’t realize the time needed or have such insecurities that they get in their own way. The most casual complainers don’t even set seasonal goals and have no desire to interact with people full stop. I’m not sure what makes some introverts locked down while others have been using wow to make friends for years.
I think the problem with Aug is no matter how much you explain Aug, you can't explain away the issue of people feeling like 1 DPS slot is locked for a single spec since it came out. People hate seeing something at the top for so long and will always call for blood. The issue for Aug is until its out of the meta people will hate the spec since they feel like it's locking them out of M+, like any other meta spec would.
All 5 specs in higher keys typically become fairly locked in to a single spec for high keys every season.
@whatthecrit For sure meta is always going to form. My point is more that aug has been meta for over 2 years, this creates resentment from other specs and creates the bad feelings. Also a spec being meta for so long trickles down further and further for auto invites even if it's not ideal outside of high keys since people hear that it is so powerful over and over.
@@jakeparkbench1425 Agreed, an unfortunate human condition. Hilariously the game is super balanced currently and most combinations of classes/specs can complete title keys but people only want the specs in WF keys which is 3 teams and limits the specs to a max of 15 possible even if all 3 teams played zero duplicates.
@@jakeparkbench1425 Maybe players shouldnt cry about a problem they create upon themselves. "Need aug +2" being a ridiculous example of what the community does.
@@jakeparkbench1425 The only season in which Augmentation Evoker was overpowered and even required was season 2. After that? No. The fact that top keys are/were done with an Aug doesn’t matter because there’s always a locked DPS spot, which affects the community's perception. This, in turn, makes it so that specs have always been 'locked.' If you played off-meta, it didn’t matter whether aug was in the game or not, you wouldn’t get a slot in Mythic+
the hate on evo, isn't about the tunning, is about no other class can do the same
Augg-Wyrmrestaccord
Picked up Aug first time in TWW...to date 4/8 mythic and top 20% m10. It is the first Nuance spec....I honestly fee it should be ITS OWN CLASS not a spec.
It is a Redmage from FF....people still dont understand it...had someone ask me today why I was doing 300k dps on Heroic Queen (details)
If you can adapt to pugs then you will, if you are meant to work with a D20 5 man party than than you will.
A complete fotm group and Aug has been in it since it's conception. We have an Aug in our group too, it's like a night and day difference in difficulty when he is not available. There are no other classes/specs that can do what it can, that's why people hate it, not for it's perceived lack of damage. Blizzard make a huge mistake every time they bring in something new, by making it so OP that they have to continually nerf it for a very long time, another reason for the hate. It also has a high skill ceiling to be at it's most effective, probably the biggest reason for the hate lol. IF there was another alternative, then the players would calm down a little but there isn't anything else that can do what it does and that's the crux of it.
The reason why aug is hated is because its a locked in class whole season despite other dps classes. Delete aug and the meta would be much healtier and a lot more classes wouls be taken in to the groups.
I havent watched the whole video, but i had a question about details that I'm super confused about it.
My ebon might uptime (self) is generally around 72-75 while everyone else's is 66ish. Ive had it drop as low as 58 when I had 72 on myself. What does this mean and how do I make their ebon might uptime higher?
What is the community/discord he's talking about at 51:20?
Another great example as to why the game should be designed around pugs and not organized play. The point about toxicity in the game and augvokers being blamed simply exists because the game is overly meta driven to the point of some classes being unplayable and the cost of bricking a key being too high incentivizing the toxicity. These did not happen in a vacuum, it is mainly because of game design features like key depletion, numerical imbalances, overdesign of dungeons in combination with frontal bugs and affixed like challenger's peril. These things only make sense in an MDI setting and actually may even make it more exciting, but not for pugs, they simply breed blame and toxicity.
The unwillingness of high end players to criticize the game design and call for community behavioural changes is just delusional to me. The are too ingrained and invested in the game to have a birds eye view of what needs to change.
You can shout for them to de-metatize the design all you want, but the hard truth is the players do that shit to themselves. The devs have gone a long way to make the game more casual friendly, but at the end of the day there will always be players that find the most optimal way to play, and the mass of players that don’t want to spend a ton of time figuring everything out themselves. So they look up a guide and follow what the guide tells them is the ‘best’ way. That will always be in every game. I’m not saying the devs are perfect, but they can’t make players not find the optimal options.
"Another great example as to why the game should be designed around pugs and not organized play." The first being that this is supposed to be MMO not MOBA.
@@mvcfitz33 You assume that The solution is complete de-metazation when it is not. I agree with you that the playerbase will find ways to optimally play the game regardless of what the Devs try to do. The problem is not guides as much is how completely inaccessible it is for the average person to swap to the meta Spec. Gearing up is already a huge process and the solution the high end players found around it is to have an army of alts that do weekly 10s and Mythic raid week 1 in order to gear them up and be ready to swap to what is meta. This is simply put, turbo ass design. FF allows you to simply swap class whenever you want and it should be the case with wow IF they want the game to continue being meta driven. I have a friend who quit week6 because he liked Shadow Priest and could not get invites. High end players would tell him to swap class or GTFO, he instead chose to play other games. The question is: Is this correct? Should you be locked out of content because you cant swap? Should you have to wait 45 minutes in LFG for a 10 because you play Fire mage? Should you NEED to find a guild or a push team if you want to play? Why is this the case? What can be done?
@@Ennar people have been pugin since 2004 in general chat homie cope harder. people shouldnt have an edge bc you and 4 friends are jobless in a basment
@@armormaster88 well, I think you are plainly stupid based on that response, but it's ok, at least you are happy. Cheers.
The real reason Aug is so dominant at the moment is two fold. Ebon Might and Blistering scales/stops. Most pair with paly which is squishiest tank so blistering scales helps their weakness and paly's dmg profile makes up for Augs weakness. And what most people fail to understand is that ebon might is massive on 625 item level and only good at 605 item level. The multiplicative scaling is crazy as you stack higher and higher secondary stats/main stat. Especially when paired with lust windows which high end groups take advantage of how time efficient getting 25-35% enemy forces is during a lust window on a 15.
blistering scales doesnt do much for tanks and ppal is not the squisiest tank lmao
@@xepher1s Respectfully disagree. Scales is something like 12k in my group and that's nothing to laugh at. There's not a single tank spec that wouldn't jump at a 10% buff to their armor. And yes paly is the squishiest out of the "meta" big 3. Unless you're saying their interrupts count towards their tankiness then maybe i'd agree. Add to the fact that paly's ints cause more white hits and my point only gets stronger.
@@jonlane6527 1. there is armor dr - most tanks already increase their armor via their abilities (bone shield, demon spikes, etc) 2. theres no big 3 meta tanks, theres realistically only ppal which is absolutely not squishy, and theres pwar which doesnt care about the armor either
@@xepher1s You're splitting hairs and you know it. After watching your Wake clear first pull the fact that it requires an immunity cd to do while both bear and war can do it without how can you argue? And while yes paly is fotm which is well deserved druid has 2nd highest run at the moment and his group is very off meta with zero externals. And again not a single tank main will turn down a free 10-15% armor talent on their tree regardless of what you're saying. If you'd like to continue arguing record a damage taken WITH scales and one without and I'll be proven right 100% of the time.
@jonlane6527 it doesn't require an immunity, it's just done because that tool is available and keeps mobs in place.
blistering scales matter so little, you literally have kess in this video suggest to put it on the healer in eg mists maze, a place where the tank gets trucked by guardians and double pulls left and right. ara Kara last boss area trash similar with the birds, healer gets scales, while the tank gets clapped. you have no idea what you're talking about and are feelycrafting
We need podcast with any monk main, state of monk is in shambles, monk needs some exposure, maybe again blizz will take a look at how bad this class is in m+
I am learning to play Aug. I really love the idea of it. What is the % uptime I should be aiming for?
People having to play well in order for aug to be good is kinda sad. To me it's very clear that blizzard tried to invent a spec that is played by people that enjoy amplifying others, but are stressed out by the idea of playing healer or dps. Because there are already very supportitive dps like ret paladin, but may be very daunting for some people to pick up. Maybe we should be glad that blizzard funnelled this idea into a new spec instead of sprinkling into existing dps. Imagine the endless discussions about "please give up 20% of your dmg and pick the group support talent".
KESS MY GOAT
and dont even try to reserve Pawgmentation, i took it
Wow had been a worse game since aug came out. It really would help the game to remove it. Blizzard can hardly balance a game without them, its been a disaster since.
If they are not going to so this they need to change the game completely. Add a support role, make m+ 6 people and add other support classes. Of course they wont do this.
bot answer, next
And make devastation good again 😢
Then give them a tank spec instead of aug 😈
@@Stopskii3 More tanks the better
@@xepher1s Ignorance is bliss I guess. But with your answer i'm not shocked.
balance has gotten better, not worse lol. I agree they need to add the support role
Would be great if more people playing Aug would actually learn how to play it because for pug groups they need to be left out. When I see some Aug players doing 1 mil overall and then see someone in a pug 13 doing 350k overall. You just can't time it. There's a huge skill gap.
Doing +11 & below keys I would say Aug are the worst class to take, it's so rare you get one that hasn't been boosted because people think they're meta. From S3 DF to now I've been in groups with maybe 3/4 good Aug's the rest have been awful
The real problem with aug is how ez it is to play. I started a aug was doing 10 keys at 580 ilvl, never died did a lot of damage. Now pushing 14's its pretty much the same. He keep saying u need to play it well whenever all u have to do it push buttons and blame the dps
Most of the defensive utility he mentions is base evoker (also on dev): Rescue, Zephyr, cleanses, sleep walk, font of magic.
I’m sorry, I know you probably mean source of magic but listing font of magic as utility made me laugh😂oooh an extra rank for my empowered spells!! That will help everyone!! Sorry🤣
MDI is proof of the aug comps being less DPS. Also with RWF where they opted to not play Aug on ST fights and said it's because of the throughput specifically.
MDI is a completly different ballgame, it's a different sport then pushing high live keys. Why do you think resto druid was played? Literally the only thing that matters in MDI is damage.
Maybe so, but that is the MDI where people have a server to practice all the pulls thousands of times. In a live key the survivability it gives the party is way more dps than any dps could feasibly bring. Was M+ only a dps-check we would only see frost dks
This seems like you misunderstand what Aug does, Max said in his analysis of the tier that they elected to change from Aug to Dev because Aug amplifies the peaks of other players, so in fights like Broodtwister, they are absolutely broken. In fights like Sikran/Ky'veza, however, they are just like normal dps. Since it requires more coordination/preparation to play an aug, they elected to just play Dev on those fights, since there was a small difference in damage, but a big difference in complexity (being Dev favoured)
say you have absolutely no idea what MDI is about without actually saying it
@@ivanlindh Yes exactly. MDI is all about damage and in that tournament nobody played an Aug because it's less DPS. That is proving the point of Aug comps having less DPS.
i didnt have a single aug evoker having more than 50% ebon might in 13s meanwhile in logs good augs have 80%
DRAGON GOD
Its not just about having 2 good dps, if your tank & healer arent capable to deal with both mechanics & doing their best to dps, its a value loss there too, & thats very clear to see in pug groups. The aug main stat buff, crowd control in openers, are supposed to help with healing & tanking ,allowing for more room to deal dmg in these roles(or pull bigger/faster) and most pugs arent used to this and dont take full advantage of it Ps: thats also why i feel the value on healers such as monk & disc priest is insane in terms of dps/hps
The way I like to explain is: if your group needs a brez Aug evoker tends to be bad.
This summarizes the fact the other tools are not prepared enough for the key, and they won't do their job (either for skills, equipment, latency, bad hardware, bad addons setup, etc). Doesn't matter the reason. In the end of the day, if anyone dies, your performance goes down as well.
So in short aug is bad because most people don't know how to measure their strength, as they enhances the healer, tank and dps, plus utilities.
The only thing they could see is the group total dps done, see if in general is there increase or not .
I do 14/15 in pug. I don't want an aug in my group for two reasons when they are not needed for tank survival
-They need to play perfectly which is hard withotu vocals
-They amplify our fails, as anyone I am not perfect, when I fuck up I would rather have someone picking up the slack
Then, listen to the podcast mate
@@GHdn I have listened and nothing of what he said change it. Aug shine with good player, Aug is skill dependent. No one plays like a robot, odds is the aug wont play optimally without vocal. Now what happen when you add people failing here and there on top of an aug not being optimal? You loose a lot of dps (Utility is insane though). You can't expect people to be perfect with no communication, people fail all the time in 14/15
Whiile havin three dps can save your key when the fail is minor
@@Elpsyth aug does not need voice or play perfectly to perform well at all
@@Elpsythwatch a high aug key. They arent obsessing over aligning cds, the comms are completely unrelated to aug.
@@Elpsyth Even in high key pug, aug is not different from any other class. Also, voice matters at this level. Beside skills, the truth is that a lot of knowledge is required to analyse performance of the aug class whereas for other class you only need to watch dps w.r.t. your words. Some title rank players do not even know of the class work and decide if the aug is good or not based on a buff uptime on Details. Imo, the thing will be fixed if we are able to measure as precisely as a dps number the performance of an aug in game e.g. on Details. Sadly, most of players are apes...
I think we can all agree, while looking at the leaderboard, nerf aug.
And prot paladin
@@lucasbuttenbender yeah and nerf the next tank that takes prot paladins place, and the tank after that.
@@onkeki mean, the fact is prot paladin is almost always meta tank, so it is getting boring
@@TheDounazz if you look at that historically you are very incorrect.
Dude sounds so butt hurt about Aug hate. He should try playing any healer.
People look at this invisible meter to see if the aug is good or bad because that's how the game is designed. That's how every spec is designed. How do you tell if a mage or warlock is doing well? Sure they can have good interrupts, stops, defensives etc, but if it looks like they're doing 2/3 the damage of other DPS specs, they would be "bad DPS" as well. The problem is it's entirely not clear what exactly the aug is doing, if they're doing it well, and what other specs have an equivalent kit.
The point is that details isnt accurate and the invisible line isnt either. You have to be live logging keys to see actual augmentation contribution.
I think you may be evaluating peoples performance incorrectly. You needed to open a log even before aug was added, and dps is a misleading metric in keys because it bakes in a bunch of external factors like route, deaths, and is negatively influenced by any attention to more important things like interrupts and stops or communication.
@kel1770 At the end of the day you can stop every ability possible and communicate perfectly but if the mobs and bosses don't die before the timer is up you fail the key. Point being, damage is king. You won't see Yoda or any of these top players playing with people who have "better communication" if they aren't playing the best dps classes for the season at a very high level.
What my issue is with aug is that as a dps i dont want to rely on anyone but myself for my dps. If my dps is lower then it should because an aug messed up. I just rather dont have them
You still have no idea how augvokers work. Aug gives you versa, aug gives you 7% of their main stat. So if they mess up, the worst thing that can happen is you dont get these buffs. They don't magically take your dps away
Lmao. Yes, let's pretend the role as DPS isn't already 100% depending on the Tank first and the Healer second.
Best of luck pewpewing in any competitive mode without them babysitting your scrawny bum. 🤣
Aguvoker makes you hit harder if you've the brain enough to take advantage of him, however the majority of (PuG) playerbase are clueless and hate for the sake of hating.
As a tank I'll always ditch one of my dpsers for an aguvoker.
My issue, as someone playing aug the first time this season, I have no fucking idea if I'm doing well or not and I don't fully understand where I can improve.
you log your runs
@@blubb4103 Every single one
Elementation Evoker spec when?
Im mostly a tank player but every season i have an alt meta dps. RN shaman is not my thing, DK is kinda meh+overrated+feels laggy for some reason so im playing Aug, enjoying it alot tbh, love to watch Kess's streams. For me its giga cringe that i cant see my performance straight away, have to (a) log and (b) deep analyze it (c) not only mine but others ppl aswell. As tank aug is OP must have imho, feels so much easier tanking with it. I think they should rework Aug - it must not give main stat but flat damage % (so it doesnt buff tanking so much), remove armor component from scales, remove healer buff, so it becomes a DPS slot and not just 3rd required player. Also pug Augs below 3100 are mostly giga cringe, they do nothing in dungeon, they press def CDs badly etc, but its not only Aug problem, low rio mages are same low lvl cringers mostly.
People dont understand Basic math, it's always been the issue and will continue to be the issue.
Accountability. I love how people just blame people straight away. Sayin theres no healing yet they are a warlock for example and doesnt use shield, heals or even their own lock rocks. stupid
Sometimes 2x Breath of Eons for a pack? I wanna see how lol
The first ten minutes just reminded most ppl that aug in your lower/weekly keys is indeed still trolling lol.
this guy doesn’t get it. aug is hated because it locks 1/3 dps slots to a support spec that you need a degree to determine if it’s being played correctly. it sucks.
98% of the players out there dont need an aug in their keys. Just because its very good in the highest keys doesnt mean you need it in your 12s or whatever
i know that im not best by my spec (currently around 40/world spec rank) but if i go dung with aug its imposible for me time same key as with 2 other dps...i think aug just dont work well with arms war :D so i usualy need to avoid them if i try to push.. i think you need rly meta dps with aug then i believe its still so strong...
Meta specs don't mean shit if people can't play them properly. Unfortunately most people swap to Meta classes to pug and it never works out. If you can't be top 100 in logs of your fav class/class you play the best with you shouldn't bother chasing the Meta. Also the Aug evoker you ran with might have been good, I see more bad evokers than good ones. Especially when I pug into someone else's key for gear or crest farm. The only way to be sure to get a good one is to screen them from logs and R-io.
@@jethrodark2372 problem is even if arms play perfectly, it deal max 70% dmg of decent enha or smth in boss fight in m+ :D so if you pick just decent enha it works way better with aug then arms or other "bad tier" class
This guy trying to act like you need to do calculus to keep buff uptimes high on aug. I rerolled to aug 2 weeks ago to push keys and just got to 631 ilvl. So 6 ilvls lower than him and less optimized stats and only 2 weeks of experience. I wasn't even tracking shifting sands uptime or momentum shift AT ALL and my uptimes are just as good as his granted I'm only doing 14/15s. Shifting sands uptime pretty much just works itself out because you give shifting sands to a random player( prefers dps) when you use an empowered ability. You have 2 empowered abilities. Said empowered abilities also extend the duration of Ebon might. If you press Ebon might you pretty much want to then use your empowered abilities on CD as long as Ebon Might is up because A. Upheavel does quite a bit of your damage+ has a knockup. B Extends the duration of your Ebon Might by 2 seconds. The only time you aren't ripping empowered abilities on CD is when EB is not active or when a pack is close to death and you're going to waste shifting sands AND Ebon might uptime which in that case you just hold for the next pack. Not hard or complicated to execute or understand.
This spec is one of the easiest specs in the game to play. He also doesn't seem to get that people " hate on Aug" because it's been meta since it came out and has been absurdly busted in certain seasons not because " low dps on details." It's pretty much been " aug takes up a dps slot" since it was released. So an easy AF spec that has been meta since it was released that takes up a dps spot( most common role in the game) is going to be an easy hate target. It's not rocket science.
Just add a new support role and incr. the grp size to 6. So dps would not compete vs support specs
I got into aug a couple weeks ago, and I really enjoy the spec... but even when I'm at 70%+ uptime on Ebon Might its almost NEVER my top damaging ability. This is disheartening. Maybe I should play Dev or just reroll...
Most of the things that are attributed to "aug" can be done by dev and pres, like zephyr, rescue shield and sleepwalk. Buff dev pls
Ya I only play aug when I'm with the boys, I tried in pugs and it's horrible I just stay pres because I can at least heal stupid players and keep them from dying.
This comment section really highlighted some of the things kess said about aug hate.
They did a masterclass in proving him right in their complete ignorance. XD
Aug was a mistake, delete it already. Full stop
As a healer, I hope they buff aug. Having them around makes my life better in every way in keys. With healing the average pug being as trash tier of an experience as it is I'm done playing nice.
Aug will forever be shit in pugs even in high keys. They wont sync cds with other dps, they die a lot more, other dps also die which makes aug worse because u not only lose the dps of the guy that died but the buff that the evoker wouldve given him as well, these things combined make the pulls last longer which also means ur tank can die etc etc. In good premade groups aug is definitely insanely good but in any other case you're better off without an aug.
so i love aug but i stop playing it half way threw season 3 cus the wow comunitys strong hate agenst it mad it so hard to ceep a good mental about it
My only problem with Aug is it killed any viabilty of the other 2 Evoker specs. I heal as Pres and can't get into keys because people just simply don't know what Pres does and always mistake it with Aug. Evokers have simultaneously been called Augs and it's pissing me off. Everytime they change something about Evokers, recent being the rescue root removal, Blizz's moves only take Augs into consideration meanwhile the other 2 suffers because of it. The meme about shamans being the stepchild Blizz don't want to care about.. That's Dev and Pres for the past 2 years.
Top 100 keys are playing double dragon aug + pres, who tf is turning you down as pres? I main both & i get invites equally as aug & pres
The reason people don't like to take Pres is cause they don't like the positional requirements. If the group is spread out a little bit they seem to really struggle to heal.
@@Gaius_Sinstone 95% of the EU lfg. I’ve timed all my 13s as Pres, I’m at 3.1k and I can’t even get invited into 12s.
@@VDHmain That’s just entitlement on the DPS’s part. There are so many mechanics that become easier if the group stacks together, like baiting swirlies both in Tirna and Ara-Kara. Just because Blizz gave you 40yrds, you don’t have to stand at 40yrds every time.
@@KiraTheKhanivore Oh definitely, I don't mean to blame the prevokers. I'm only a 2750 tanks and I can't count how many times I've asked ranged to stay close so they can get in the dk's AMZ or the Disc's Barrier or be close enough so the aug can buff both of them instead of one dps and the tank; and that's my own group with comms XD. So imagine pugs. They won't admit they're the issue, they'll blame pres and not invite them.
Let me preface by saying i like having an Aug in my group. Firstly because i selfishly take all the credit for my added DPS and it makes me feel good :), but also because it makes our pulls feel more steady and controlled. To be fair i mostly play with the same 3-4 people and we just pug one or two DPS, so our group is somewhat closely knit. What I'm not a fan of is the idea that an AUG is only as good as it's group, meaning if an AUG is bad it's because of external factors such as bad DPS. I myself struggle to determine if a AUG is good or bad by looking at details and logs, but having run the same dungeon with the same group but different AUGs i can notice the differences.
My question to the AUGs out there is, what should i as a DPS (or tank/healer) in a PUG do differently when paired with an AUG? Help me understand you.
Same here. I have played with good pug Augs I guess. They increase my dmg by so much that it just feels better to have an Aug over a 3rd DPS
The dps just have to do good damage and interrupt well. Healers and tanks have way less to do with the output. Heals and tanks are enabled by aug while the aug’s input is directly affected by the dps.
I don’t picks Aug because no one knows what they fuck they do and they can’t be held accountable, Unlike other roles. Obviously meta in a team with in high keys but pugging no thanks.
lmao let me just buff this enha who is 50% ahead of every other dps and then say aug is neck and neck with frostdk what a jokester. Only reason aug puts up those numbers is because for some godforsaken reason enha is still not nerfed
if aug evokers would be deleted today m+ would be 20% better across the board for 99% of the playerbase
This dumb comment tells me you don’t know how to play support classes and you don’t know how to play with support classes. Get good
thats false
I shouldn’t have to be social in a video game to be able to progress. Ever. Period end of story 🤷
Having to Watch an ad nearly every 5 minutes is beyond annoying. Geesh. Had to stop watching because of this.
respect to ppl playing aug cause its the most boring spec i've ever played.
One of the biggest reasons why theres so much aug hate is that, historically, augs can get away with blaming the rest of the party instead of being able to accurately determine where to improve. "Well your damage is my damage so its not my fault" kinda talk. Well sometimes, it IS your fault, just like sometimes its my fault. It becomes very difficult to identify the problem when youre only looking at details, in app, at the end of a key. I'm far from a perfect player, but I have tools available to help me improve. Aug doesnt really have any of that. Their log hooks are still broken, details reports are dubious, and all your other resources revolve around what other people say rather than anything definite. Augs are disconnected from that immediate feedback loop of looking down and being like "yep im doing good" or "woop im doing not so good." So there are like hundreds of augs just flying around these keys not knowing which way is up because aug requires so much more passion and outside work than everyone else
log hooks are in a decent state and barely broken. and no, aug is not disconnected from that immediate feedback loop as its blatantly obvious when you fucked up and lost EM.
I will never take an aug in a pug
For the dopes saying its coz they are half a DPS. The reason aug feels bad in lower keys is because stuff dies too fast. It is also because in pug for a key under 8 it is a crap shoot if your dps known their class or not. The amount of times i invite some 2700 rating dps and they pull lower than tank dps (not pally tank dps, i mean proper tank dps around 300K-400K on aoe). Or people who just have no clue in general how to do a ST rotation or AOE rotation, so you are boosting, protecting an buffing someone who has no clue. Same with healers or tanks. Just everyone in lower keys is a crap shoot when you play aug, you are hoping the stars align and they know their class/spec enough to get even 70% of what their toon can out put.
Which is why if i play on my aug i make sure the two dps i get at least know what they are doing. Healer and tank are nice but if i am Aug i NEED to know my dps can do their rotation under pressure, that is the core most important thing when playing Aug in lower key pugs.
But that is also why i don't invite them in lower keys also. Some of them just play aug to get the invite and think it will get them an auto-invite. But no. I am not inviting a aug unless i know them or trust them. Had way too many Augs who after looking at logs have horrible uptime and were clearly not hitting their rotation properly. They also never hit their Zeph, never hit any utility, don't cleanse at all certainly bleeds, never hit rescue and so on. There are just so many things they can just not do to make them a liability. An aug to be worth bringing in my eyes has to be excited to hit their utility instead of only just pressing their dps up buttons.
bro wrote a whole book for 0 likes 😭🙏🏼