Whisper This Sudoku Secret
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- ** TODAY'S PUZZLE **
An old favourite on the channel, Florian Wortmann, has made this beautiful hybrid sudoku combining killer cages with German Whisper lines. This is a LOT of fun :) Play the puzzle at the link below:
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Rules:
Normal sudoku rules apply. Digits in cages cannot repeat and must sum to the small clue in the top left corner of the cage. Neighbouring digits on a green line have a difference of at least 5.
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Melvyn Mainini
Hey Simon, thanks for the feature! Glad to see you enjoyed the puzzle and I hope everyone watching does as well. I've had a bit of bad news this week, so this came just in the right moment to cheer me up again.
Happy Easter to everyone 🙂
Sorry you had a bad week. I hope this starts to turn things around
Love your puzzles florian ...admire your setting skills...and that your news /life/no matter what is going on continues to get better for you
What a really fun puzzle. :)
Thank you for another excellent puzzle. This was the perfect difficulty for me, it kept me thinking and was very satisfying to solve. Really brightened my afternoon.
I hope things start looking up for you! And happy Easter!
I hope you are doing well and that everything is getting better!
85 minutes for me and I don't care if I'm at more than double what everybody else did. Still proud of getting it on my own.
74 minutes! When I first started following this channel I couldn't even begin most of these let alone make progress, but now I'm starting to solve some of the easier ones, albeit slowly.
First time I solved one of these without looking anything up in the video. Took me 90 minutes but hey, it's a start and it was a lot of fun and really feels like an accomplishment having completed it.
69:41. I had to restart and watch the video twice and it still took me that long. We'll get better, I hope 🤣
Wow i actually beat the video time, solved this one some weeks back and it took me 27 minutes. Granted i didn't have to do introductions or explain everything, but i'm still happy haha
But that is one quality of Simon that he does so many explanations!
@@olivier2553 I think that’s what Snow means.
@@SjorsHoukes Of course, but praising Simon is worth saying it twice :) It is because of Simon that I tried these new forms of Sudoku, because classic was not attractive to me.
The first time ever I’ve seen a break in before Simon. I noticed immediately that the central cell had to be 1 or 9 and either low or high digits in the middle cross. By doing maths on the middle row and central column you can work out that the digits at the edges can’t be high enough if the central square is 1 so it must be 9.
After spending over an hour failing to do a puzzle that required set theory a week ago, today I thought I'd skip that and go straight to set theory, after having noted the grid looked suspiciously "boxy". I didn't waste an hour on it, but that false start cost mea good 10-15 minutes. Final time: 45 minutes. This puzzle gave me that baffling feeling of 'I have no idea how to start this', but it amazingly seemed to resolve quite methodically if you just keep chipping away at the possibilities. Great puzzle Florian!
Oddly enough, I _did_ get the central 9 through SET. And it felt so neat that I thought it had to be the intended break-in... until Simon came along and solved it in an actually intelligent way. :D
Wow, I was not expecting that! The interaction of the 5th row and column plus a few cages and whispers lines, a piece of logic revolving around the middle cell of the grid and the way it triggered the solve of the entire puzzle…that was sublime! Thank you to Florian for setting it and what a sudoku hybrid! :)
Immediately when Simon marked the central box I was like - ok, so next he's gonna say - the central square needs to be either 1 or 9 ..
21:59 ... I very much enjoyed solving this one.
Nice puzzle!
Isn't it wonderful how sudoku and arithmetic get along with each other!?
Nice puzzle
Simon was going great guns until he had to resort to sudoku which slowed him down considerably.
I clicked the puzzle link before watching the realized and the CTC software filled up automatically partially started. I must have started it when it came out on LMG, so I just resumed the solved and finished it. Thanks for reminding me to finish the puzzle!
I was putting the 9 year old boy to bed and he wasn't... motivated to sleep. To wind down I watched this solve with him as I know he's been doing Sudoku at school and while it didn't change his sleepiness any we did have an excellent time talking through the solve.
The 28 having such an impact in box 8 was my favorite part. It's a really neat idea for a puzzle and was a fun solve.
15:20 R5C4 and R5C6 don't have to add up to 7 to disprove the central 1.
Even if you max them as 4 and 5, the row totals up to 7 (left cage)+1+4+5+9(right cage) which is 26, leaving 19 to be distributed over the two end cells, which is impossible.
Thank you. Simon annoyingly spent a lot of time on why them adding up to 7 was huge, but never actually articulated why they had to.
16:10: the moment you realize that 5 does in fact _exist_, even if it doesn't exist on a whispers line
I finally beat Simon 🎉! 18:46. I’m honestly very surprised it took as long as it did for Simon to work out the middle digit had to be 9. If it was a 1, even maxing the other two digits in R5 as 4+5, it would require 19 in the outer two digits, which is impossible.
44 minutes for me. It was not easy to spot the initial few pieces of logic, but once you determine the middle digit, it slowly but surely topples. This is an adorable, if slightly tricky puzzle.
21:41!! very nice logic involving row 5 and col 5!! and using the 15 cage to disambiguate everything
This has got to be one of the best examples of Stormtrooper Scanning. My goddess, there was so many missed pencilmarks. So. Many.
@@herrpausr7008 Yeah, yeah it does. I have had to stop watching a few times, because it's just too much. Usually it's just funny and it doesn't really affect anything, but sometimes....
6:40 I think you can rule this out by noting the ONLY way to make a 7 cage work while putting a high digit in it is 1-6, but if orange is low it has to be the 1 (since it has to be german-whisper-compatible with all four of the high digits) :edit: Simon gets there by approximately the same logic around 15:00
another way to think about it is if 1 is in the centre then the 2534 quadruple which results precludes any low digits in 9. Here's a knowledge bomb - 9 cages need a low digit. You're welcome.
Because there were only two possibilities for r5c5, I quickly found the right digit. Then everything went almost by itself. Towards the end, the overlapping cage helped to position the rest of the digits and it was clear to me why that cage was there. A nice puzzle that I was able to solve relatively quickly. I think I've learned a lot here in this channel.
I loved this puzzle Florian. I also enjoyed your solve Simon. Thank you to both of you.
This was a great puzzle. 39 min for me and I'm proud of the time. Usually I go over double the time it takes for Simon to finish.
Thx CTC for the Puzzle. Been working on a few and did this one is 79:45 only needing 23:43 of the vid. Will be trying to do better on the next one.
Took me quite a long time but with no help from the video. Quite pleased 😊
Quite early, it can be seen that, as the corner squares of box 5 are all high, then they contain a 6, so the centre square is a 1, or if the corners are all low, they contain a 4, so the centre square is a 9. Therefore R5C5 can only be 1 or 9, which as consequences for the 10 cage, which then affects the 11 cage.
33:52 for me, including realizing and fixing a mistake. pretty good time!
29:10 this three deserved a song, but Simon didn't give it one 😢
26:49
Really clean design and some nice twists in the solve path.
32 minutes for me and I had a blast!
Thank you to S&M (😆) and all the amazing puzzle setters for making sudoku even more indulgent than chocolate this Easter. Simply wonderful channel 🐣
Thanks for this video and this excellent puzzle, Florian. I enjoyed both. Vocabulary word of the day: recherché. I love it!
64 minutes for me. Kicking myself that I didn't see the break in with row 5. Had to watch the vid. Smooth, even if slow, progress followed.
Took a slightly different path to begin. I started by deducing that the Box 2 cage only had one option because any other combination would have broken the cage on Box 8, thanks to the 7 and 9 cages in row 5. From there it was fairly similar to Simon's path.
Got it! Loved it! Thank you.
Rules: 02:33
Let's Get Cracking: 03:31
Simon's time: 28m30s
Puzzle Solved: 32:01
What about this video's Top Tier Simarkisms?!
The Secret: 3x (17:18, 17:24, 17:29)
Phistomefel: 2x (00:51, 01:33)
Bobbins: 1x (09:55)
And how about this video's Simarkisms?!
Beautiful: 6x (11:35, 15:16, 18:15, 18:17, 21:56, 32:11)
Ah: 6x (10:51, 11:35, 15:06, 15:11, 18:15, 27:11)
By Sudoku: 5x (23:34, 26:17, 27:25, 31:05, 31:21)
In Fact: 3x (02:44, 08:22, 18:42)
Obviously: 3x (03:20, 08:15, 20:21)
Sorry: 2x (05:41, 21:49)
Surely: 2x (08:53, 19:02)
That's Huge: 2x (15:38, 15:54)
Clever: 1x (15:11)
Missing Something: 1x (28:02)
I Have no Clue: 1x (03:34)
Lovely: 1x (16:03)
Elegant: 1x (32:21)
Famous Last Words: 1x (03:57)
Of All Things: 1x (22:46)
Hang On: 1x (16:12)
I've Got It!: 1x (01:08)
Disappointing: 1x (10:27)
On the Cusp: 1x (26:57)
Most popular number(>9), digit and colour this video:
Ten (7 mentions)
Two (71 mentions)
Blue (11 mentions)
Antithesis Battles:
Low (35) - High (27)
Higher (2) - Lower (1)
FAQ:
Q1: You missed something!
A1: That could very well be the case! Human speech can be hard to understand for computers like me! Point out the ones that I missed and maybe I'll learn!
Q2: Can you do this for another channel?
A2: I've been thinking about that and wrote some code to make that possible. Let me know which channel you think would be a good fit!
Is "that is a something" in the list?
Howabout the Try Guys?
Do you get paid to do this or
It’s a bot that some very nice human made
@@cbear7996 I see. Very complex bot
16:53 for me. Wow, I love the design of this puzzle so much, it looks fantastic. The logic is great as well, all in all an awesome puzzle.
Took me a little over an hour to do this one because I had figured out the 3/4 in the 14 cage then somehow decided to put an 8 in it and got pretty deep into it before I realized what I had done.
I found another way to deal with the central column/box: We know that the three cells in the central column in the central box are either all high/five or low/five, and eventually we can discover that each cage in the central box has 1 high and 1 low. But this means that whether the central cell is 1 or 9 we would end up with 5 low/high digits unless we put 5 in the central box in the central column. I used high/low pairs in a couple other places too
Once you had the 12 pair in the top line, and 3 in the top center and 4 in the upper right corner, the upper left corner had to be high. I kept waiting for you to notice. AAARGH.
Yes. I filled that color much earlier and it also helped me figure out that it had to be 6 because of the 14 cage. Once it had a 78 cell, the other two had to be low forcing the other high digit in box 1 into column 1 where there were now virtually 4 high cells with R1C1 being the only one with the possibility of being the 6.
Beautiful setting and solving! You missed the 3 in the corner though!
The 6 staring at 2 digits of the 3 cell cage doesn't place the 6...no, we have wait until we eliminate the 1 and 2 from the third cell...
Have to build up the tension before one can have the 6.
I spent about an hour fiddling with SET (you can make a nice checkerboard pattern involving all cages and the 'tips' of every whisper line) - very annoyed this wasn't the way to go lol
Where Simon got stuck a minute I used box 1 and column 1 to place a 6 in R1C1 as the 14 cage could not have the other high digit because of the 78 cell. So the other high cell (the other 78) had to be in column 1 in box 1 making 4 high cells already in column 1, but more importantly R1C1 is the only one that could be a 6. Also, when using the 15 cage I looked at the other end, with those two cells being at most 9+4=13 preventing a 1 in the other cell making it a 3, putting a 1 two cells below it and bing bada boom, the puzzle unravels. :)
Wow this break in was wild
I am partially colorblind and can therefore say that yellow and purple are just as good as blue and orange, as they are also contrasting colors, and IMO yellow and purple is the better choice as the blue gets to close to the color of non-given/inserted digits, making it much harder to scan the puzzle. Another thing is that colorblind people often rely on brightness to distinguish colors and blue and orange are in that perspective closer to each other than purple and yellow. And if you are completely colorblind brighness is the only difference.
38:02 for me - took me 20 minutes to figure out the center digit, I knew it had to be 1 or 9 right from the start, but took me way to long to figure out which is was.
3:00 No, it does not break the symmetry. The symmetry runs along the diagonal from r1c1 to r9c9, and not along an x/y axis through r5 & c5.☝🤓 😉
I beat the video time by 50 seconds! Yay. Eggcellent puzzle.
Huh, this is interesting.
I used the cross pattern of the 4 cages to figure out that the middle cell couldn't be low, because it would need to be 4 (and the outermost digits be 9/8 in both c5 and row 5) for that to work, and since 4 can't go in the middle of a german whisper line I was able to say that it was a high digit early on.
I'm surprised to see that this wasn't necessary to the break-in.
EDIT: Looking back, all you need is row 5 and the realisation that the middle digit is 1 or 9. if it's 1 then the maximum total of r5c4-6 is 10. 10+7+9 is 26 which you can't make with 7 digits.
Also, at playback time 14:36:
1) Either *{2-5}* or *{3-4}* is forced into the *7-cage*
2) This creates a *{2-3-4-5}* quadruple in *row 5.*
3) That quadruple, together with the 1 in the central cell, rule 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 out of the *9-cage,* making it impossible to fill (its minimum value would be 6+7 =13)‼
This is probably less elegant than your method, but it does not require you to think about *triangular numbers.*
I solved it slightly differently to Simon,
if 1 was in the middle then all of the edges of the horizontal whisper would have to be high, and since you could not use 1 6 for the 7 cage, there is no place to put 4 high numbers along line 5... sorry if that sounds confusing....
but great puzzle =)
23:05, not difficult but still required a lot of thinking. Nice puzzle.
Interesting how Simon determined the middle cell. I went a different route using the 9 cage in box 6, having previously worked out that a) the central cell of the box could either be 1, 2, 3 or 8 and b) there could not be a 6 on the whispers line in box 4 (it would cause a repeated 6 or 1). If the central cell of box 6 was a 2 or a 3 (i.e. if the middle cell was a 1, which would rule out 1 and 8), it would force high digits on both ends of the whispers line but this would form two quadruples in rows 4 and 6, with the 6 in each having to appear in box 5 and this would cause a repeated 6 in the box. Therefore the middle cell is a 9.
I can say that I really enjoyed both ways. Thanks Simon for the solve video.
I have a third easier way for you. All those four cages have to have at least one low digit, therefore if you make R5C5 low, forcing the corners high and the edges in box 5 three low digits and a single 5, then either column 5 or row 5 (the one that doesn't have the 5 on it) will have five low digits and last time I checked, there are only four digits below 5 in sudoku. :)
(This does require one extra step as the 11 cage could have a high digit of 6 with the 5, but the whispers line prevents that combination, thankfully.)
15:34 Haha, I found completely different way to get the same:
Following the coloring of middle box (center orange, corners blue), look at column 5.
The 11-cage must be blue/orange = high/low pair (since 56 option is gone).
The 10-cage has to be that too, as anyone who solved whisper+cages puzzles knows.
Now the four "central" cells of box four have to be almost all orange (with one of them being a 5).
So how do you finish column 5? You have two highs and lows in cages, and you have three or two orange cells in box 5. But you can't actually have three orange cells, because 2+3=5 and you can't have five high/low cells in a column (remember, orange cells are all high or all low).
This puts one orange and a 5 in box 5 col 5, and means that row 5 of box 5 is all orange.
At this point, I had some logic done in row 5 and its 9-cage. Notice, that it cannot contain a 5. 5 cannot go on whisper, and 5 in the other cell puts 4 on whisper, which would need two 9's in a box.
This makes the 9-cage high/low pair, and therefore orange/blue pair. We now have all 4 orange cells of row 5 placed, and we can finish with Simon's logic that you need a low cell in the 7-cage, so orange must be high.
Who says Simon always find the most roundabout logic? :D :D
Simply say:
All four cages have to have at least one low cell (as the 11 cage can't be 56), so making R5C5 low would force either column 5 or row 5 to have 5 low digits, of which there can only be 4, so R5C5 is high and 9 since it needs four unique digits at least 5 away from it.
I needed a poke - disambiguating polarity in the central box, all else went quite well... I see Simon did the same mistake and filled the remaining cells with 6789 instead of 5678, though he noticed it a bit earlier :D
45:50. Got hung up not realizing the cage in box 7 could be x,2,y. So erroneously assumed it had to have digit "z" which got me going a few minutes until the puzzle broke, then backtracking to find where the error occurred without sacrificing the progress I'd already made. (But not knowing when and where the error occured)
Took me a bit to see the way though but overall it didn't seem to be that hard of a puzzle once I did. Lots of fun.
21:32 finish. I just went ahead and color-coded the entire grid with high-low-5 (am I playing Pitch/Pedro now?). Very nice puzzle!
Solved it with some help from the video.
Those two german whispers lines in box 5 might not be two straight lines. The could be a downward pointing arrow in the top half of the box and an upward pointing arrow in the bottom half.
I'm surprised Simon got orange = high without using column 5 at all. I did it completely differently. The two cages in column 5 consist of a high digit and a low digit each. That means they each contain an orange digit, so in box 5 those orange digits have to go in row 5. That means box 5 row 5 is all orange, and since we already have at least two low digits in row 5 orange must be high.
The new bond film has just turned up on Amazon prime, which I was really looking forward to, but I just had to finish this video first. #priorities
Simon, may I ask you to increase the audio volume of the videos. Keep the talk in the yellow zone.
i got a little set happy, and selected column 5 and row 5 in one set, and box 5 in the other, leaving the four corners in box 5 adding up to 45 less than quite a lot of things elsewhere. knowing that r5c5 was 1 or 9 according to the polarity, the low-ness of the box 5 corners was forced
One of the rare examples where I beat the video time, at 21:15.
14:40 I'm probably being thick, but why do they need to add up to 7?
It’s because the seven sum box can’t be 1+6 as the 1 would already be in the row. It then would need to be either 2+5 or 3+4, which leave the other two for the middle box and they will also sum up to seven. Adding the rest of the logic it became impossible to have the 1 in the middle of the grid.
@@perhenrikhuss3461 Oh, of course. I was going about it backwards
23:23 for me. A little on the simple side, but enjoyable.
Took me about 5 seconds to put a 1-9 pair in the central cell of box5 (I remembered that from puzzles I did before). But took me over half an hour to figure out that it can’t be a 1 (that Simon proved in first couple of minutes and then forgot about 😅).
22:40 very cool
27:28 there is no way, NO WAY!, that Simon finds a horizontal 35 pair and don't use it with the vertical 39 pair in box 9. There is simply no way, man. That's impossible.
24:13 I got a bit the hang of it mid way, realative approachable, just look for doubles
37:59 for me, it was a fun and approachable puzzle :)
Ye Gods, I found that tough. Finally cracked it in 63:04
Felt like I solved this in 35 minutes, but I put 7,3 in the 11 cage in box 2 very early on and got the wrong solution (and it had two valid solutions, which is how I found out it was wrong!). I could redo it, but my logic was on point execpt for the mistake, so I wouldn't have a new experience. :(
I did the same thing. 7+3 does not equal 11!
There is a third way to rule *1* out of the central cell *(r5c5),* without using triangular numbers:
1) As shown by Simon at playback time 14:36, If the central cell is *1,* then
*blue cells* = high digits (6-7-8-9),
the remaining cells in box 5 are from *{2, 3, 4, 5}* and
either *{2-5}* or *{3-4}* is forced into the *7-cage*
2) This creates a *{2-3-4-5}* quadruple in *row 5*
3) That quadruple, together with the 1 in the central cell, rule 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 out of the *9-cage,* making it impossible to fill (its minimum value would be 6+7 =13)‼
QED
In a previous comment, *Daniel Lucas* describes the most elegant method to reach the same conclusion using the triangular number for 7 (i.e. 1+2+3+4+5+6+7 = 28). Simon used a similar method at playback time 15:00.
I simply used the fact that you can't have 5 low digits in a column or row and putting a 1 in R5C5 forces 5 low digits either in the column or the row since the 11 cage can't be 56.
@@jdyerjdyer How did you *"simply"* prove that a *1* in r5c5 forces 5 low digits either in r5 or c5? I can prove it only for *row 5* by using my steps 1 and 2 (see above), and rewriting step 3. But that is not simple and does not apply to column 5.
@@Paolo_De_Leva All of the four cages in row 5 and column 5 have to have a low digit (as the 11 cage can't be the 56 combo because of the whisper line), so that is two in each and if you put a 1 in R5C5 then even placing the 5 in either the column or the row will force the other to have the other two low digits and with the 1 that gives 5 low digits. (The whispers lines in box 5 force the corners to all be high if R5C5 is low, which forces the other squares in the 3x3 to be low or 5.)
@@Paolo_De_Leva You can actually even see that R5C5 has to be high before recognizing that it is limited to the extremes of 1 and 9 through this logic.
... amusing that it took so long to worki out r5c5, since the most the alternate can be pushed to is 43, without even considering conflicts between the 7 and 9 cages [17+16+_10_]
I could not finish and had to watch to figure out my mistake. I messed up 5 in box 9. had to go half way back. My time 102:47
Completed in 19m12s
Fun! 33:08
20:59 for me. Quite a good time i think.
Having just worked out that the whispers cell in the 9 cage is low, you proceed to colour it yellow "until we work out whether it's high or low". Is your short term memory really that bad?
The key thing to notice is that the centre cell can only be 19 (they are the only digits which can whisper to four other digits), if it's 1, that means you need a low digit of 23 in each of the 7 & 9 cages, with a 45 pair on the horizontal bar of the + in box 5, but you'd also need a 4 or 5 in the 7 cage. Therefore, the centre must be 9 with 1234 in the corners. This gives you so much information that it very quickly solves.
Once again, your pencil-marking was sloppy. You'd just put 346 on the bottom of box 7, and correctly deduced that the corner couldn't be 6, but failed to look up where there was a 4. Even so, you still put 123 into R7C3, when not ten seconds earlier you'd put a 346 triple in the box. You put a 35 pair in R7, but still failed to remove the 3 from R7C3, and worse, you failed to resolve the 39 pair right next to the 35 pair. Then you ask "what am I missing here?" Discipline, that's what. At the top, you had a 569 triple, where the corner couldn't be 5, but neither could the third if you'd only looked.
Your deliberations on the 14 had you put a 23 in a cell in a column containing a 2. For the 17 cage, you had 12, which had to go with 15 or16, the 15 couldn't be 69, so either way it needed a 7, which only had one place to go, and the other digit was an 89, forming a pair in the box.
This lovely puzzle could have been resolved very quickly if you'd only been disciplined, and checked your placements both before putting inappropriate pencil-marks, and after placing pencil-marks to check what they resolve. This is so simple, and takes almost no time, I really don't understand why you steadfastly refuse to correct this. You're so keen on teaching beginners, but why are you teaching them bad habits?
I have solved it.
It turns out yelLOW is a good choice for low digits 😀
I prefer orange for low and blue for high. Oranges are near the ground and the sky is blue, so you get low oranges and sky highs. :)
Took me 90 minutes, but I got it.
solved in 19:55 :D
I am tired. I saw that 15 cage between boxes 2 and 5 as a 2-cell cage and had a simple constructive proof why this is unsolvable. 5 minutes in, proving a result and never noticing it is a 3-cell cage.
That was hard for me! 1:10:23.
17:30 for me.
At 27:32 he gets the clue on box 8 that could make everything easier(Where the 9 go in box 9) He then proceeds to ignore that clue and ignore its existence until he solves the puzzle. Poor ignored clue
He also ignored the 6 pointing at the cage in box 3. He still got there though, which is all that counts...I think. lol
Once you knew the central square had to be a 1 or a 9. You could then look at how many low numbers you could fit in row 5. Then you would have known the central square would been a 9.
I'm glad you found it early on😎
You don't need to know that it is a 1 or a 9. Just how it interacts with the lines and the cages in rows 4 and 5 is enough. If you make it low, then you end up with 5 lows in either row 5 or column 5 because the 11 cage can't be the 56 combo, all four cages must have at least 1 low in them, so no matter where you place the 5 in box 5, either the column or the row ends up with too many lows. That tells you R5C5 is high. Then realizing that you have to have 4 different digits that are at least 5 away then tells you it is the 9.
27:10 for me.
done
*** 3 in the corner ***
pov you only watch Simon
28:10 “what am I missing” 4 giving you R9C9, row 7 being totally done, 5 in box 1, should I go on lmao